“And it's root, root, root for the home team, If they don’t win it’s a shame,” And I went... and... took the night off To go to a ball game! I’ll be back at it tomorrow.
Thank you, Steve! The song matches Heather’s terrific photo! My dad, an artist, was not at all into sports, but for some reason I know the lyrics to that song....go figure.
Your dad had something in common with the two men who wrote the song—neither of them had ever been to a ball game, and still didn't go for another 20 or 30 years. While riding on the subway Jack Norworth saw a sign advertising a game at the Polo Grounds, and that's what inspired him to write the lyrics. He also wrote "Shine on Harvest Moon."
That's great, Elisabeth. Fenway Park (or as the native Bostonians and most of the rest of New Englanders would say "Fenway Pahk" as in
"Pahk the cah in Hahvad yahd") was opened in 1912, the same day, I think, the Titanic went down. It's a work of art (aht) and a poetry of a ball field. Once you go up a ramp and see the great expanse of natural green grass, it might take your breath away. From home plate to the bull pens in right field it's 380 feet. It used to be 400, but years ago when the Great Ted Williams played there, they shortened it to 380. Ted once hit a home run of 500 feet to the bleachers in right field a hit a seat. Authorities painted that seat to demark the event!
Richard, love your enthusiasm for Fenway Pahk and baseball. I lived near Dodger Stadium in Echo Park, Los Angeles in 1976-82. I went to the games (in my late 20’s) to look at boys and drink cold beer. I liked being outside in a beautiful stadium. I guess I’m a baseball fan.
I guess you are, Elisabeth. Here is a line from the great Chuck Berry song, "Johnny B Goode:" "He was rounding third and heading for home/He was a brown-eyed, handsome man."
And then is one of my all-time favorite films, "Field of Dreams," which isn't really classified as a baseball movie, but the scene near the end where the Burt Lancaster character, who is a 20 year old playing with old and famous baseball players, sees the little girl fall off the bleachers and rushed to the first base line, stops, hesitates, then moves a foot across the line and the spiked shoe turns into a business shoe, and then his glove falls to the ground and is replaced by a doctor's medical bag, and we see it is the old doctor who goes to the aid of the girl. If one doesn't cry when seeing that, I can't imagine it.
I'll never forget when I was a young kid, walking up and over that ramp, and being blown away when I saw that the amazing, huge, broad view I'd only seen on TV. It was so big and the colors so vivid. wow....!
Love it! I just sang Take Me Out to the Ball Game with my ukulele club, 3 Chord Thursday, last week. It was the original version written in 1908, about a woman named Katie Casey who loved baseball. I think we could substitute your name! Some songs are timeless. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSGUK9n3lJQ
Oh, my, Susan. This is why I absolutely love Heather and all LFAAers! But for any one of us, the telling of our history would be hidden from...the crowd!
Heather is so smart. By sending the wonderful picture of Fenway Park, she knew she wouldn't get writer's cramp this time. As the saying goes, "A picture is worth a thousand words." And surely she got at least a thousand out of her readers this time!
I had no idea about the song. So even when Heather is relaxing at a ballgame, posters here are giving us some history. Thank you. I have been to very few baseball games, once to the Cubs and once to the White Sox. My last ball game visit was the Durham Bulls and we left after 7 innings because it was too hot. Now I am smiling about that because of the heat we now experience in some parts of the country. Personally not a fan of baseball. Grew up in Indiana, so it's basketball for me.
One of my favorite movies is "Bull Durham". I'm a big baseball fan but I also love basketball 🏀 . As a UCLA guy, I'm appreciative to Indiana for giving John Wooden to the world. From the small world dept., my sister's father in law produced the wonderful film, "Hoosiers"
Yes, I was thinking of Bull Durham. I am sure you appreciate Wooden who left South Bend Central to come to UCLA....sorry not my fav team....UO fan. I do love the film Hoosiers and can well remember that game in 1954 when Bobby Plimp held the ball for about five minutes to win over Lafayette Jeff by two points. Elkhart was in the final four that year, but had lost to Lafayette Jeff in the semis. In those days all teams were in the tournament.....nothing based on size and no consolidated county schools either. Sectional on was played at the Northside gym after it was built in Elkhart (I went to jr. high at Northside) which at one time was the largest high school gym in the world until a school in southern Indiana built a larger one. My dad and uncle took me to a Cubs game and two teacher friends took me to a White Sox ladies night.
Michele, I also love "Hoosiers." Since I grew up in Maine, I am a Boston Celtics and Larry Bird fan. "The Hick from French Lick," as Larry is called, came from, as you know, French Lick, Indiana. Basketball in Indiana must be the state sport. "Hoosiers" shows how high school sports are so huge in small towns everywhere. And how the locals demand so much out of their children and the coaches, as we see in that movie. I remember that in my home town of Kittery, ME. Shooter, the father character in "Hoosiers" is a drunk and has done little with his life in 'Hoosiers" because he missed the game-winning shot when he was at that high shcool.
Yes, French Lick is a small I think spa town in southern Indiana. Basketball in Indiana is Hoosier Hysteria and people from Indiana either love it or hate it. The worst teacher I ever had was an assistant coach in basketball. In those days, there were no games between schools for girls and it was two dribbles and pass plus defense on one side of the floor and offense on the other....six players. This was because all of this might do damage to reproductive organs. But we could kill each other in gym class. In the school where I worked here in Oregon, the booster club basically hired the football coach and they hired some real doozies, usually of suspect character. The superintendent once gave the basketball coach a couple personal days for winning the state championship, but denied the baseball coach a couple personal days when he had tickets to the world series. So, it became a union matter (and unions do matter....just read a thing on Huffpost about union busting) and we all then got two personal days, no questions asked. I would say now things are worse for kids. Their parents even move to towns where the team wins. And all the club sports and special schools for sports. I was glad I had a chance to play with kids in the neighborhood and ride my bicycle and not have to belong to all sorts of things. We also see all kinds of stories about parents out of control at ball games. But ancient Greeks cheated at their olympic games, so it's been going on for a long time.
Years ago, I went to Fenway Park to see Ted Williams play. I hit a single and walked once. But I was disappointed that long drive he hit failed to clear the fence and was caught. I saw two more games a Fenway in 1962 and 1968, but in the latter game, Jim "Catfish" Hunter pitched a shutout, and the hated damned Yankees beat the Red Sox 8 - 0.
Michelle, you wrote that you saw the Durham Bulls play. Have ever seen the great move "Bull Durham?" There is a great seen where the Tim Robbins character Luke Lalush is interviewed by a woman reporter. She asks him "What is baseball?" He responded by saying, "You throw the ball, you hit the ball, you catch the ball, sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, and sometimes it rains." I think that is a good metaphor for life.
Rain is so much needed here in York, which is in South Central PA. We had a few sprinkles this morning about 8. Perhaps we could hire rain dancers to bring the rain.
Amazing. I was always a baseball fan growing up in Texas. The Brooklyn Dodgers were my team back then. I knew the song, but I never really knew it. This is a great service, Susan. Thank you for this. This is true Americana.
This is a fantastic share, Susan! I love baseball, and love that every town in VT has a home playing field (usually 2 or 3) for teams made up of townfolk. Teams often multi-gender and age. Baseball is the only pro sport I will go to, and I bemoan that I've never been to Fenway Park! But I grew up in an Oregon town with a pro farm team and as a teen went to flirt with the players (and enjoy free pro-level baseball. I'd never heard the whole song before. It's wonderful! All this time we've been singing the refrain. But that's ok: it's a keeper.
So glad you took the night off. “If we build it they will come”. That line from Field of Dreams just came to me when I saw the ballpark. But it really hit me thinking of how we work and live our lives and the impact on what’s to come.
And probably you were watching the Red Sox who beat the Mets 6 to 1.
In the early 1950s, the San Francisco Seals were the AAA team for the Red Sox, so I have always liked the Red Sox. Although I was living in Riverside County, I rooted for San Francisco, because I was born there. Could hear the games at night. Spent a lot of time listening to the radio while recovering from polio. That is when I wasn’t exercising :-). I went to a very large junior high school (seventh eighth and ninth grades) and won the whole school speech contest as an eighth grader. I recited “ Casey at the
So happy to cheer for the team. Team USA! Our country showing change is possible through the popular sport of Baseball. It wasn’t easy. It took courage and faith and hope. Lots of courage. Jackie Robinson, for the Dodgers in a segregated league. “1948, Robinson's teammate Pee Wee Reese came to his aid during a game in Cincinnati where the fans were especially ruthless. Reese simply walked over, put his arm around Robinson and looked out at the crowd. This show of solidarity proved that Robinson was accepted by his teammates and should be by those who came and watched the game. A reminder that change is possible and takes time. And happens with effort and deliberately. Here’s the story. “The Road to Baseball Integration.”https://www.mlb.com/phillies/community/educational-programs/uya-negro-league/road-to-baseball-integration
You never fail to amaze me...and that's one of the big reasons I must always find the time to read all the comments. LOL. There are always hidden gems beyond our priceless HCR. I just wish this old staccato operating memory did not often seem in persistent overload. Nevertheless, it sure is fun just to find these gems. Thanks again, to all.
Thank you - I didn't know the details of Jackie Robinson's story. Fans screaming insults from the seats....Pee Wee Reese standing with him. Such a powerful story.
Glad you were able to kick back and take in a game! However, the less said about your team choice, the better. Nobody's perfect! (My team heads into Fenway tomorrow for 2 games starting Tuesday . . . ) Nothing like baseball to make you forget the problems of the world, and I speak through experience!!
Well, this subject is something I have followed very closely over the years. The Braves have gone out of their way over the past 30 years or so to establish working relationships with the Native American groups in the area, specifically the Cherokee Nation. Firstly, for a period in the early '90s (under Ted Turner's initiative) and again fairly recently, the Braves management met with representatives from the Cherokee and discussed the "Braves" name, the "chop", and the general representation of Native Americans. The Cherokee reps in turn met with other groups around the country to discuss the whole subject of their representation among sports teams. What came out of those negotiations were changes we've seen in mascots for the Cleveland "Indians", now "Guardians", and the Washington "Redskins", now "Commanders". Other sports teams were included as well, the Kansas City "Chiefs", and the FSU "Seminoles". (Incidentally, BOTH of these teams also use the so-called "war chant" and "tomahawk chop" at their games, and in fact the Braves stole the "chop" and "war chant" from FSU. It was reputedly started by Braves player Deion Sanders from the dug-out and the fans picked it up.)
Specifically, with regard to the Braves, there were changes made in the early '90s by retiring certain mascot depictions, the "howling brave" graphic that had been used for decades, and the character of "Chief Knock-a-Homa", who had a teepee out in left field of old Fulton County Stadium and who would do a "war dance" whenever there was a home run. Those were thankfully scrapped. After the most recent discussions between the Braves and Native American clans, both sides made a number of statements. What the Cherokee said was that they did not see anything at all detrimental about using the name "Brave" as a mascot, and that in fact the term "brave" was meant as a compliment to a warrior's bravery in battle and hunting. They even said they considered it an honor to have brave Native warriors honored in such a fashion. As for the "tomahawk chop", they said they found it more humorous than offensive. As they said, the "tomahawk" itself was more of a Hollywood invention than an actual weapon, as not all tribes had traditionally used them. One of their spokesmen said it was silly, bordering on kitsch, but it wasn't something that they felt should be forbidden, as it had become a team motivator. Though pretty silly and stupid, they didn't find it necessarily offensive. Besides, as they said, how are you going to stop 45,000 rabid fans in a stadium, either in Atlanta, Kansas City, or Tallahassee, from breaking into it? Admittedly, at a Braves game when there is a pitching changeover by the opposing team, the ballpark goes dark and 45,000 people turn on their phone flashlights and in unison do the "chop". It is a SERIOUS goose-bump moment, designed to intimidate the other side. It's pretty damned impressive. As a further concession, the Braves no longer make and/or sell the foam tomahawks used in the chop, though they do still use it as part of one of the team's logos. Also, every season, at least once during the season, there is a "Cherokee Nation Night" when chiefs and representatives of the Cherokee Nation are present in traditional garb, performing dances and "drum-beat-pow-wows" on the field before and after the game, and in the 7th inning stretch. It's one of the most popular events on the Braves calendar.
Sorry this is so long, but I wanted to show how, unbeknownst to most people, the Braves organization HAS been very astute in considering the feelings of the local Native American population and were the motivating force in establishing relationships with these groups. I'm not sure if the Kansas City Chiefs or the FSU Seminoles were as comprehensive in dealing with the feelings of Native Americans. Maybe so. But it is worth mentioning that the Cherokee here have gone on the record as being VERY proud of their association with the Atlanta Braves.
Morning, Bruce, and thanks for the detailed and well thought out response.
I have the following further thoughts----
With respect to the name "Braves", I am generally aware of the incremental history you recite curbing the offensive nature of the name and/or its various incarnations in mascots, representations, etc. I am a lifelong Dodger fan, thus not a Brave fan by any means. You will recall when both teams played in the NL "West" division. I well remember the Fulton County "Launching Pad", Claudell Washington, Ralph Garr, Bob Horner, and the great, still underrated by many Dale Murphy and the others of that era. I appreciate the progress you cited, and you are most correct in noting it.
Yet, the name arose quite a while ago, in the team's nascent years in Boston. There is no serious question that the name at present, after decades of deeper understanding and a sea change in the general culture and public perception against the tokenization and minimizing of Native American history, is a relic of the past. I think it should go, just as you mentioned the former Cleveland Indians did the right thing, as did (after waaaaaaay too long, and the just recently ended reign of terror by the ghastly Dan Snyder) the Commanders. Yet, I am not losing sleep over the name itself.
Your example of the Cherokees is a bit problematic. The Cherokee representatives you cite do not represent the entirety of the Cherokee nation, as I understand. Beyond that, what other Native American tribes and/or organizations were consulted? And why do people (mostly white people) stick so stubbornly to the name?
As for the dreadful "chop", I had forgotten that it may have started with Neon Deion, one of the great athletes in recent sports history, and one of the biggest jerks as well (soon to be a flop in his coaching ventures in the Boulder State). Not necessarily surprised. Remember, Sanders went to FSU as well. The chop and the other Native American tokenizing at FSU is arguably worse, with the "Plains Indian" jabbing a spear into the turf, in Florida, a state that had Osceola and other Indian tribes, but noticeably NOT from the Plains, at their yahoo-esque, games.
Any Native American representatives who claim that the "chop" is more silly than offensive is assuredly not speaking for the majority of Native Americans.
There is simply no excuse for continuing the annoyingly offensive "tomahawk chop" chant and gesturing. It reeks of crude, racist appropriation and tokenizing.
I must tell you that the experience of watching a Braves game on television, especially in the playoffs, is greatly diminished when we are all forced to sit through that repetitive, annoying, and disrespectful exercise, sometimes multiple times during an inning.
Thanks for that, Bruce. I appreciate it. I haven't seen the interview yet, but I will.
I do not doubt the good faith and respect shown in what you kindly presented.
It certainly appears that the Brave organization has walked the extra mile to honor and respect the selected Native Americans.
It is not the Braves' duty to right the wrongs of centuries. Yet given their place of prominence in the cultural millieu of Atlanta, greater Fulton County, and in the entire Ogelthorpian State, it would seem incumbent upon them to , at a minimum, ban the disdainful "chop"
Well, I think that trying to force an entire stadium of 45,000 people, either in Atlanta, 77,000in Kansas City, or how-many-it-is in Tallahassee, to do what you want is not realistic. I think the Cherokee Nation has more or less accepted that and allowed that it is more or less inevitable. In the area of north Georgia where Atlanta is located, THE Native American tribe that is by far most prevalent and is and was the Cherokee. A significant number of the population here have Cherokee ancestry. They have basically adopted the Braves as "their" team, and a lot of this support has to do with the Braves organization honoring its namesake. There's a lot of pride on their part for that team. Again, the term "Brave" is NOT a pejorative and the Cherokee here, by and large, do not see it as such. They ARE the predominate tribe of Native Americans in this area and I think what they say, goes. If Plains tribes or tribes in the west find it offensive, I'd think the Cherokee would more than likely say, "that's YOUR problem, we're fine with it." Saying "they don't represent all Native Americans" may seem true on the face of it, but then, WHO DOES? The Eastern Band of the Cherokee Nation here is, simply, the tribe HERE, and that's who the Braves organization deal with and support. As for the "chop", it's stupid, kitschy, and dumb, but though not at all based on any historical certitude, when 45, 000 people do it (I don't, if I'm at a game) at a strategic point in the game, they're not doing it to poke fun or cast negative aspersions. It's a team-motivating stunt. The players find it inspiring. I'm not wild about it, but it is what it is, and trying to somehow "ban" it is just not practical. Are you going to kick out an entire stadium of people if they do it? Are you going to penalize an entire city or team? You can try and "reason" with them . . . well, good luck with that. It is too popular with the respective fan bases, and many would simply consider it another example of the "hyper-PC police squad" and would do it all the more vociferously. The team has, at least, banned the foam tomahawks. I think the Cherokee attitude is along the lines of just shrug and accept that it's gonna happen, dumb as it is, and deal with it. You can criticize that all you want, but I'd just say, "grin and bear it" because I don't see it disappearing. I think in many respects we'll just have to agree to disagree. (And for what's worth, I detest the Dodgers with the heat of 10,000 suns!)
Thank you, Daniel. You speak my mind. Especially the part about the Cherokee as stand-ins for the entire range of Native Americans. I'll simply add that there is more than one "Cherokee nation". Cherokee itself was a confederation of various indigenous nations in the SE, and did not include all southern tribes, let alone all indigenous tribes in the region known now as the USA. Not only has that federation splintered, but the so-called "Cherokee Nation" (not their actual name, but I won't go there, as I like my peace) is not welcomed at inter-tribal meetings in general. So, no, not representative of very many American indigenous people at all.
Thank you for your kind words, and your wise thoughts, Annie.
I should correct my previous post to note that I was thinking "Seminole" but I typed "Osceola", the famous chief of the Seminoles instead. My apologies.
Speaking of Osceola, I can't wait to see Harriet Tubman replace Andrew Jackson on the $20 bill! In the meantime, I wonder if the Florida Board of Education will mandate that kids learn about the many "benefits" the Cherokees picked up along the Trail of Tears.
Buy me some peanuts and cracker jacks, I don't care if I never get back
The original sung by Edward Meeker - 1908
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9stW6YvR7AY
...”I don’t care if I never get back...” That’s the line that gives a moment of respite to the brain!.
Thank you, Steve! The song matches Heather’s terrific photo! My dad, an artist, was not at all into sports, but for some reason I know the lyrics to that song....go figure.
Sort of amazing and amusing that it's a song about a girl who'd rather go to a ball game than a "show."
I didn't know that...
Your dad had something in common with the two men who wrote the song—neither of them had ever been to a ball game, and still didn't go for another 20 or 30 years. While riding on the subway Jack Norworth saw a sign advertising a game at the Polo Grounds, and that's what inspired him to write the lyrics. He also wrote "Shine on Harvest Moon."
Greg, delightful history and funny! Thank you.
That's great, Elisabeth. Fenway Park (or as the native Bostonians and most of the rest of New Englanders would say "Fenway Pahk" as in
"Pahk the cah in Hahvad yahd") was opened in 1912, the same day, I think, the Titanic went down. It's a work of art (aht) and a poetry of a ball field. Once you go up a ramp and see the great expanse of natural green grass, it might take your breath away. From home plate to the bull pens in right field it's 380 feet. It used to be 400, but years ago when the Great Ted Williams played there, they shortened it to 380. Ted once hit a home run of 500 feet to the bleachers in right field a hit a seat. Authorities painted that seat to demark the event!
Okay, non-baseball fans, I'll stop.
Been there twice! Play ball!
Richard, love your enthusiasm for Fenway Pahk and baseball. I lived near Dodger Stadium in Echo Park, Los Angeles in 1976-82. I went to the games (in my late 20’s) to look at boys and drink cold beer. I liked being outside in a beautiful stadium. I guess I’m a baseball fan.
I guess you are, Elisabeth. Here is a line from the great Chuck Berry song, "Johnny B Goode:" "He was rounding third and heading for home/He was a brown-eyed, handsome man."
And then is one of my all-time favorite films, "Field of Dreams," which isn't really classified as a baseball movie, but the scene near the end where the Burt Lancaster character, who is a 20 year old playing with old and famous baseball players, sees the little girl fall off the bleachers and rushed to the first base line, stops, hesitates, then moves a foot across the line and the spiked shoe turns into a business shoe, and then his glove falls to the ground and is replaced by a doctor's medical bag, and we see it is the old doctor who goes to the aid of the girl. If one doesn't cry when seeing that, I can't imagine it.
I'll never forget when I was a young kid, walking up and over that ramp, and being blown away when I saw that the amazing, huge, broad view I'd only seen on TV. It was so big and the colors so vivid. wow....!
Thanks for this original, Steve Lord! This reminded me of the poem "Casey at the Bat."
...and it's one, two, three strikes you're out at the old ball game!
I love how this song celebrates a great American game, even if you're not winning.
So true!
Love it! I just sang Take Me Out to the Ball Game with my ukulele club, 3 Chord Thursday, last week. It was the original version written in 1908, about a woman named Katie Casey who loved baseball. I think we could substitute your name! Some songs are timeless. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSGUK9n3lJQ
Oh, my, Susan. This is why I absolutely love Heather and all LFAAers! But for any one of us, the telling of our history would be hidden from...the crowd!
Amazing how women can be erased, overlooked or forgotten in history. Now under attack. Not anymore. Why we need people like HCR and folks on here.
Yes, Susan Y!!!
Heather is so smart. By sending the wonderful picture of Fenway Park, she knew she wouldn't get writer's cramp this time. As the saying goes, "A picture is worth a thousand words." And surely she got at least a thousand out of her readers this time!
Smiley Face...yes, indeed, Richard!
Wow! All these years and I never knew about the entire song and Katie Casey. I thank you, Susan and Steve as well for educating me.
I had no idea about the song. So even when Heather is relaxing at a ballgame, posters here are giving us some history. Thank you. I have been to very few baseball games, once to the Cubs and once to the White Sox. My last ball game visit was the Durham Bulls and we left after 7 innings because it was too hot. Now I am smiling about that because of the heat we now experience in some parts of the country. Personally not a fan of baseball. Grew up in Indiana, so it's basketball for me.
Hi Michele!
One of my favorite movies is "Bull Durham". I'm a big baseball fan but I also love basketball 🏀 . As a UCLA guy, I'm appreciative to Indiana for giving John Wooden to the world. From the small world dept., my sister's father in law produced the wonderful film, "Hoosiers"
Yes, I was thinking of Bull Durham. I am sure you appreciate Wooden who left South Bend Central to come to UCLA....sorry not my fav team....UO fan. I do love the film Hoosiers and can well remember that game in 1954 when Bobby Plimp held the ball for about five minutes to win over Lafayette Jeff by two points. Elkhart was in the final four that year, but had lost to Lafayette Jeff in the semis. In those days all teams were in the tournament.....nothing based on size and no consolidated county schools either. Sectional on was played at the Northside gym after it was built in Elkhart (I went to jr. high at Northside) which at one time was the largest high school gym in the world until a school in southern Indiana built a larger one. My dad and uncle took me to a Cubs game and two teacher friends took me to a White Sox ladies night.
Michele, I also love "Hoosiers." Since I grew up in Maine, I am a Boston Celtics and Larry Bird fan. "The Hick from French Lick," as Larry is called, came from, as you know, French Lick, Indiana. Basketball in Indiana must be the state sport. "Hoosiers" shows how high school sports are so huge in small towns everywhere. And how the locals demand so much out of their children and the coaches, as we see in that movie. I remember that in my home town of Kittery, ME. Shooter, the father character in "Hoosiers" is a drunk and has done little with his life in 'Hoosiers" because he missed the game-winning shot when he was at that high shcool.
Yes, French Lick is a small I think spa town in southern Indiana. Basketball in Indiana is Hoosier Hysteria and people from Indiana either love it or hate it. The worst teacher I ever had was an assistant coach in basketball. In those days, there were no games between schools for girls and it was two dribbles and pass plus defense on one side of the floor and offense on the other....six players. This was because all of this might do damage to reproductive organs. But we could kill each other in gym class. In the school where I worked here in Oregon, the booster club basically hired the football coach and they hired some real doozies, usually of suspect character. The superintendent once gave the basketball coach a couple personal days for winning the state championship, but denied the baseball coach a couple personal days when he had tickets to the world series. So, it became a union matter (and unions do matter....just read a thing on Huffpost about union busting) and we all then got two personal days, no questions asked. I would say now things are worse for kids. Their parents even move to towns where the team wins. And all the club sports and special schools for sports. I was glad I had a chance to play with kids in the neighborhood and ride my bicycle and not have to belong to all sorts of things. We also see all kinds of stories about parents out of control at ball games. But ancient Greeks cheated at their olympic games, so it's been going on for a long time.
Years ago, I went to Fenway Park to see Ted Williams play. I hit a single and walked once. But I was disappointed that long drive he hit failed to clear the fence and was caught. I saw two more games a Fenway in 1962 and 1968, but in the latter game, Jim "Catfish" Hunter pitched a shutout, and the hated damned Yankees beat the Red Sox 8 - 0.
Michelle, you wrote that you saw the Durham Bulls play. Have ever seen the great move "Bull Durham?" There is a great seen where the Tim Robbins character Luke Lalush is interviewed by a woman reporter. She asks him "What is baseball?" He responded by saying, "You throw the ball, you hit the ball, you catch the ball, sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, and sometimes it rains." I think that is a good metaphor for life.
Yes, I have seen the movie. And yes, a good metaphor for life. And it may actually rain in Salem, OR today and we do need it.
Rain is so much needed here in York, which is in South Central PA. We had a few sprinkles this morning about 8. Perhaps we could hire rain dancers to bring the rain.
Me too! Wow!
You and me, Marlene! Care for some crackerjack?!
🤩
Oh my. Thanks for the history of the song. I will check it out on YouTube. Never knew it had my name!
Amazing. I was always a baseball fan growing up in Texas. The Brooklyn Dodgers were my team back then. I knew the song, but I never really knew it. This is a great service, Susan. Thank you for this. This is true Americana.
Casey at the ball game to see Casey at the bat?
I sang it full throttle at Angel-Yankee game last week! It’s synonymous with summer fun.
This is a fantastic share, Susan! I love baseball, and love that every town in VT has a home playing field (usually 2 or 3) for teams made up of townfolk. Teams often multi-gender and age. Baseball is the only pro sport I will go to, and I bemoan that I've never been to Fenway Park! But I grew up in an Oregon town with a pro farm team and as a teen went to flirt with the players (and enjoy free pro-level baseball. I'd never heard the whole song before. It's wonderful! All this time we've been singing the refrain. But that's ok: it's a keeper.
Thank you SO MUCH for this! Love it, and it's entirely new to me, too.
And it’s one, two, three and you’re out... Pleasant dreams!
So glad you took the night off. “If we build it they will come”. That line from Field of Dreams just came to me when I saw the ballpark. But it really hit me thinking of how we work and live our lives and the impact on what’s to come.
And probably you were watching the Red Sox who beat the Mets 6 to 1.
In the early 1950s, the San Francisco Seals were the AAA team for the Red Sox, so I have always liked the Red Sox. Although I was living in Riverside County, I rooted for San Francisco, because I was born there. Could hear the games at night. Spent a lot of time listening to the radio while recovering from polio. That is when I wasn’t exercising :-). I went to a very large junior high school (seventh eighth and ninth grades) and won the whole school speech contest as an eighth grader. I recited “ Casey at the
Bat”
You brought the Red Sox luck! You certainly deserve the night off, Dr. R! Will be singing your song to sleep.
And your team, and Joe Scarborough’s, team won! Yay!
So happy to cheer for the team. Team USA! Our country showing change is possible through the popular sport of Baseball. It wasn’t easy. It took courage and faith and hope. Lots of courage. Jackie Robinson, for the Dodgers in a segregated league. “1948, Robinson's teammate Pee Wee Reese came to his aid during a game in Cincinnati where the fans were especially ruthless. Reese simply walked over, put his arm around Robinson and looked out at the crowd. This show of solidarity proved that Robinson was accepted by his teammates and should be by those who came and watched the game. A reminder that change is possible and takes time. And happens with effort and deliberately. Here’s the story. “The Road to Baseball Integration.”https://www.mlb.com/phillies/community/educational-programs/uya-negro-league/road-to-baseball-integration
You never fail to amaze me...and that's one of the big reasons I must always find the time to read all the comments. LOL. There are always hidden gems beyond our priceless HCR. I just wish this old staccato operating memory did not often seem in persistent overload. Nevertheless, it sure is fun just to find these gems. Thanks again, to all.
Irenie....great comment! Can't keep a good man (or woman) down!!!
Thank you - I didn't know the details of Jackie Robinson's story. Fans screaming insults from the seats....Pee Wee Reese standing with him. Such a powerful story.
Thank you, Irenie. An important story many have either not heard or have forgotten.
Glad you were able to kick back and take in a game! However, the less said about your team choice, the better. Nobody's perfect! (My team heads into Fenway tomorrow for 2 games starting Tuesday . . . ) Nothing like baseball to make you forget the problems of the world, and I speak through experience!!
You have a fine team Bruce. Acuna, Albies, Olson, Strider, et. al., leading the Braves into the City they originally called home.
Nonetheless, their name is problematic, and the tomahawk chop definitely has to go.
Well, this subject is something I have followed very closely over the years. The Braves have gone out of their way over the past 30 years or so to establish working relationships with the Native American groups in the area, specifically the Cherokee Nation. Firstly, for a period in the early '90s (under Ted Turner's initiative) and again fairly recently, the Braves management met with representatives from the Cherokee and discussed the "Braves" name, the "chop", and the general representation of Native Americans. The Cherokee reps in turn met with other groups around the country to discuss the whole subject of their representation among sports teams. What came out of those negotiations were changes we've seen in mascots for the Cleveland "Indians", now "Guardians", and the Washington "Redskins", now "Commanders". Other sports teams were included as well, the Kansas City "Chiefs", and the FSU "Seminoles". (Incidentally, BOTH of these teams also use the so-called "war chant" and "tomahawk chop" at their games, and in fact the Braves stole the "chop" and "war chant" from FSU. It was reputedly started by Braves player Deion Sanders from the dug-out and the fans picked it up.)
Specifically, with regard to the Braves, there were changes made in the early '90s by retiring certain mascot depictions, the "howling brave" graphic that had been used for decades, and the character of "Chief Knock-a-Homa", who had a teepee out in left field of old Fulton County Stadium and who would do a "war dance" whenever there was a home run. Those were thankfully scrapped. After the most recent discussions between the Braves and Native American clans, both sides made a number of statements. What the Cherokee said was that they did not see anything at all detrimental about using the name "Brave" as a mascot, and that in fact the term "brave" was meant as a compliment to a warrior's bravery in battle and hunting. They even said they considered it an honor to have brave Native warriors honored in such a fashion. As for the "tomahawk chop", they said they found it more humorous than offensive. As they said, the "tomahawk" itself was more of a Hollywood invention than an actual weapon, as not all tribes had traditionally used them. One of their spokesmen said it was silly, bordering on kitsch, but it wasn't something that they felt should be forbidden, as it had become a team motivator. Though pretty silly and stupid, they didn't find it necessarily offensive. Besides, as they said, how are you going to stop 45,000 rabid fans in a stadium, either in Atlanta, Kansas City, or Tallahassee, from breaking into it? Admittedly, at a Braves game when there is a pitching changeover by the opposing team, the ballpark goes dark and 45,000 people turn on their phone flashlights and in unison do the "chop". It is a SERIOUS goose-bump moment, designed to intimidate the other side. It's pretty damned impressive. As a further concession, the Braves no longer make and/or sell the foam tomahawks used in the chop, though they do still use it as part of one of the team's logos. Also, every season, at least once during the season, there is a "Cherokee Nation Night" when chiefs and representatives of the Cherokee Nation are present in traditional garb, performing dances and "drum-beat-pow-wows" on the field before and after the game, and in the 7th inning stretch. It's one of the most popular events on the Braves calendar.
Sorry this is so long, but I wanted to show how, unbeknownst to most people, the Braves organization HAS been very astute in considering the feelings of the local Native American population and were the motivating force in establishing relationships with these groups. I'm not sure if the Kansas City Chiefs or the FSU Seminoles were as comprehensive in dealing with the feelings of Native Americans. Maybe so. But it is worth mentioning that the Cherokee here have gone on the record as being VERY proud of their association with the Atlanta Braves.
Morning, Bruce, and thanks for the detailed and well thought out response.
I have the following further thoughts----
With respect to the name "Braves", I am generally aware of the incremental history you recite curbing the offensive nature of the name and/or its various incarnations in mascots, representations, etc. I am a lifelong Dodger fan, thus not a Brave fan by any means. You will recall when both teams played in the NL "West" division. I well remember the Fulton County "Launching Pad", Claudell Washington, Ralph Garr, Bob Horner, and the great, still underrated by many Dale Murphy and the others of that era. I appreciate the progress you cited, and you are most correct in noting it.
Yet, the name arose quite a while ago, in the team's nascent years in Boston. There is no serious question that the name at present, after decades of deeper understanding and a sea change in the general culture and public perception against the tokenization and minimizing of Native American history, is a relic of the past. I think it should go, just as you mentioned the former Cleveland Indians did the right thing, as did (after waaaaaaay too long, and the just recently ended reign of terror by the ghastly Dan Snyder) the Commanders. Yet, I am not losing sleep over the name itself.
Your example of the Cherokees is a bit problematic. The Cherokee representatives you cite do not represent the entirety of the Cherokee nation, as I understand. Beyond that, what other Native American tribes and/or organizations were consulted? And why do people (mostly white people) stick so stubbornly to the name?
As for the dreadful "chop", I had forgotten that it may have started with Neon Deion, one of the great athletes in recent sports history, and one of the biggest jerks as well (soon to be a flop in his coaching ventures in the Boulder State). Not necessarily surprised. Remember, Sanders went to FSU as well. The chop and the other Native American tokenizing at FSU is arguably worse, with the "Plains Indian" jabbing a spear into the turf, in Florida, a state that had Osceola and other Indian tribes, but noticeably NOT from the Plains, at their yahoo-esque, games.
Any Native American representatives who claim that the "chop" is more silly than offensive is assuredly not speaking for the majority of Native Americans.
There is simply no excuse for continuing the annoyingly offensive "tomahawk chop" chant and gesturing. It reeks of crude, racist appropriation and tokenizing.
I must tell you that the experience of watching a Braves game on television, especially in the playoffs, is greatly diminished when we are all forced to sit through that repetitive, annoying, and disrespectful exercise, sometimes multiple times during an inning.
Chop the chop, I say.
https://www.mlb.com/braves/community/native-american-community/eastern-band-of-cherokee-indians
And this interview with Principal Chief Richard Sneed of the Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians. Do take note of the responses to the vid:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAty8FmMvas
Thanks for that, Bruce. I appreciate it. I haven't seen the interview yet, but I will.
I do not doubt the good faith and respect shown in what you kindly presented.
It certainly appears that the Brave organization has walked the extra mile to honor and respect the selected Native Americans.
It is not the Braves' duty to right the wrongs of centuries. Yet given their place of prominence in the cultural millieu of Atlanta, greater Fulton County, and in the entire Ogelthorpian State, it would seem incumbent upon them to , at a minimum, ban the disdainful "chop"
Well, I think that trying to force an entire stadium of 45,000 people, either in Atlanta, 77,000in Kansas City, or how-many-it-is in Tallahassee, to do what you want is not realistic. I think the Cherokee Nation has more or less accepted that and allowed that it is more or less inevitable. In the area of north Georgia where Atlanta is located, THE Native American tribe that is by far most prevalent and is and was the Cherokee. A significant number of the population here have Cherokee ancestry. They have basically adopted the Braves as "their" team, and a lot of this support has to do with the Braves organization honoring its namesake. There's a lot of pride on their part for that team. Again, the term "Brave" is NOT a pejorative and the Cherokee here, by and large, do not see it as such. They ARE the predominate tribe of Native Americans in this area and I think what they say, goes. If Plains tribes or tribes in the west find it offensive, I'd think the Cherokee would more than likely say, "that's YOUR problem, we're fine with it." Saying "they don't represent all Native Americans" may seem true on the face of it, but then, WHO DOES? The Eastern Band of the Cherokee Nation here is, simply, the tribe HERE, and that's who the Braves organization deal with and support. As for the "chop", it's stupid, kitschy, and dumb, but though not at all based on any historical certitude, when 45, 000 people do it (I don't, if I'm at a game) at a strategic point in the game, they're not doing it to poke fun or cast negative aspersions. It's a team-motivating stunt. The players find it inspiring. I'm not wild about it, but it is what it is, and trying to somehow "ban" it is just not practical. Are you going to kick out an entire stadium of people if they do it? Are you going to penalize an entire city or team? You can try and "reason" with them . . . well, good luck with that. It is too popular with the respective fan bases, and many would simply consider it another example of the "hyper-PC police squad" and would do it all the more vociferously. The team has, at least, banned the foam tomahawks. I think the Cherokee attitude is along the lines of just shrug and accept that it's gonna happen, dumb as it is, and deal with it. You can criticize that all you want, but I'd just say, "grin and bear it" because I don't see it disappearing. I think in many respects we'll just have to agree to disagree. (And for what's worth, I detest the Dodgers with the heat of 10,000 suns!)
Thank you, Daniel. You speak my mind. Especially the part about the Cherokee as stand-ins for the entire range of Native Americans. I'll simply add that there is more than one "Cherokee nation". Cherokee itself was a confederation of various indigenous nations in the SE, and did not include all southern tribes, let alone all indigenous tribes in the region known now as the USA. Not only has that federation splintered, but the so-called "Cherokee Nation" (not their actual name, but I won't go there, as I like my peace) is not welcomed at inter-tribal meetings in general. So, no, not representative of very many American indigenous people at all.
Thank you for your kind words, and your wise thoughts, Annie.
I should correct my previous post to note that I was thinking "Seminole" but I typed "Osceola", the famous chief of the Seminoles instead. My apologies.
Speaking of Osceola, I can't wait to see Harriet Tubman replace Andrew Jackson on the $20 bill! In the meantime, I wonder if the Florida Board of Education will mandate that kids learn about the many "benefits" the Cherokees picked up along the Trail of Tears.
The double negative has always interested me:
“I don’t care if I never get back.”
Baseball is an American common denominator.
Good for you! Hope your team won, and even if they don’t, you had a ball. ⚾️⚾️⚾️
Great news. I hope your team won. Rest well. We’ll all be here tomorrow most likely.
Good for you! So glad the home team won!
HOPE YOUR TEAM WON!
So glad to hear you are a Red Sox fan!