I agree that Barr's actions in replacing Berman and others is not specifically linked to the Epstein case. Trumps atrocious lack of respect for women and his previous filanderings, gropings and abuse of all and sundry that are not male is known and even "liked" by much of his core support. Trump/Barr are really furthering their governmental policy which says that "the rich and powerfull can do no wrong" and freedom of speech does not include the right to say otherwise. Should their words or deeds contravene the existing laws, you certainly don't prosecute them...you change the law. Trump/Barr would be perfectly at home with the new security law that the chinese communist party has just imposed on Hong Kong.
Entitled because somehow, to them, the work that other people do counts only as work that they themselves did. "Stop taking the all the results of my work" morphs into the undeserving trying to take what isn't theirs.
I'm not sure even Barr/McConnell/Trump have enough ducks to stomp out all the grass fires currently threatening to become major conflagrations. I personally hope their feathers get too singed for them to fly away.
Just yesterday while surfing the Web, I fell into a Wikipedia account of Thomas Cromwell, a toady of King Henry VIII, who did his dirty work behind the scenes, getting the King’s marriage annulled so he could marry Anne Boleyn then getting Anne beheaded. Really sordid stuff until reading this letter about the goings on with “modern” Royalty and King Bonespur’s toady, William Barr. At least the old corruption had a good ending when the King turned on Cromwell and had him beheaded.
I’m just finishing the third book in Hilary Mantel’s trilogy about Thomas Cromwell. It is historical fiction, but Cromwell seems to have been a complicated man, but a remarkably effective administrator.
I highly recommend the series – the first two books won the Booker Prize.
Agree. A superficial understanding of Cromwell does him injustice. Henry VIII was not a kind and decent person; many of Cromwell's actions with regard to Henry reflects Henry's abhorrent needs and desires.
I did a 3-sentence condensation of a Wikipedia post for comparison of parallel corrupt loyalists. Perhaps I should have linked it for a more thoro dissertation.
Disgusting how deep the corruption runs! So many threads that tie 45 to the morally bankrupt people who make up his circle of friends. No words suffice to describe this situation. Things must change in November!
Heather, thank you for treating this as a big story!
In the background of that video you mention, one can see Ghislaine nearby. I have followed the Epstein-Maxwell story for years in the hopes that they would would receive what they deserve for the loathsome things they did.
Years ago, I read the story of a young girl, "Katie Johnson", who was held captive in the Epstein Manhattan mansion in 1994 with a 12 year old girl, "Maria". The younger girl had a notebook with details of her trauma which she passed to the 13 year old before trying to escape. She was never heard from again. Katie eventually brought a lawsuit in April 2016 but finally dropped it, citing threats on her life and her family's. Snopes did not refer to these stories as a hoax. I believe there is truth to it based on what has come out since. Both girls mentioned repeated sexual assault by important men, including trump.
That story is what haunted me. I was hoping it be the nail to get dumpy, but the threats made it disappear. Another candidate would have dissipated at even the hint of sex trafficking! dumpy’s got friends in the lowest of places!
I share these letters to facebook each night and attempt to do a little summary of who/what is inside. Just typing 'Ghislaine Maxwell' tonight made me want to vomit. These Epstein 'associates' are human scum.
You know, I think about this more than a little. How does someone become what Maxwell did? I mean, I can accept that there are some people who are just rotters from the start. But what about those people who could go either way? Do they make a baby step in the wrong direction and it just snowballs? Or do they do it consciously because they want the wealth and power that selling your soul brings? I guess this question is as old as the oceans, but seeing it play out around us now in so many ways keeps it front and center in my mind....
I think the mental manipulation goes so deep! Kind of like Stockholm syndrome. And if it starts from what the captured thinks is a good loving relationship, I think it can move rather quickly from would you do this for me to what wouldn’t you do for me. Then it’s a downward spiraling insidious black hole that consumes everything! .... So happy I changed my ending! And Never got anything close to this mess!
You use an important word here “baby”. Of course, you have not used it in the way that I am thinking of it, but any woman who has had a child has to have a conscience about using children in the way that she has — although many mothers have been just as callous. That said, I believe that her luxurious upbringing, the loss of her brother, and the disappointment in her father’s crimes may have catapulted her into the selling of her soul. Who knows ... I just hope that she spills the beans — every single filthy bean.
One thing that must not be forgotten with regards to Epstein; the predators who associated him had one thing in common: wealth. The people who sought Epstein favors were far ranging. If it should all come out** I believe we will be shocked by some of the names revealed. Base behavior is not constrained political affiliation only by the lack of money to help hide abhorrent behaviors.
** Supposing Maxwell lives long enough to spill the beans.
Wealth and/or power. And I'll bet for all the names we know from the news, there are ten other important but not famous people who are also on the tapes. Guessing a lot of their money came from blackmail.
I'm guessing you're right on both counts; the number of important people in tapes and the use of blackmail. You are absolutely right, about wealth and/or power. They open a lot of doors and hide a lot of sins.
Minor detail, perhaps, but we can all remember how Barr, before he was appointed, actually "auditioned" to be Trump's AG by writing him a long letter. And now it appears to be personal, a deal or quid pro quo, based on his own need to deal with the Epstein problem and a decades-long scandal that led to Barr's farther, and in return, he commited to covering up every one of Trump's crimes.
I misspoke calling it a letter. It was a memo debunking the validity of the Mueller probe. I called it an "audition" because many TV analysts and pundits were calling it that. While it didn't expressly address the Epstein issue, which wasn't even in the news at that time, it so overtly validated Trump as to provide assurance of being covered in all legal actions against him. As Mark Warner put it: "I’m thinking it’s more than a little bizarre that a private attorney, Mr. Barr, would write this kind of memo and then in effect give it, my understanding, to officials in the White House almost as an attempt to solicit this position," Warner said. "To say, ‘Hey, Mr. Trump, don’t worry. I’ll have your back on the Mueller investigation.’" https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/422336-dem-senator-barr-gave-memo-to-white-house-almost-as-an-attempt-to-solicit-ag
I work hard to steer clear of conspiracy theories, but for any of the hundreds of men with deep pockets that Epstein had real dirt on, bribing a couple of underpaid security guards who were desperately working the worst shifts must have been remarkably cheap, and a highly valuable investment. Any one of these men could likely also afford to buy off their entire extended families, and thus earn the gratitude of the other hundreds of men in jeopardy. In the end could actually pay better than early Apple stock.
Can’t we force their hand? Surely, someone in the Senate must have the guts to stand up to these degenerate bullies! What must be leaked at some point is what 45 has on MoscowMitch and some of the others.
Did you see the article today about how if Trump's numbers don't turn around, McConnell will tell Senators to distance themselves from him so the Republicans can try to keep the Senate? Interesting....
No, although there have been articles for a while suggesting that Republican senators are walking tightropes to distance from trump without alienating his supporters.
Thank you for responding to my comment, Heather. A change of subject from Barr/ Epstein/ Maxwell:
Robin Wright wrote an excellent article in The New Yorker today: Will the U.S. with its entrenched racism, inequality, crony capitalism, unjust justice system, gun culture, racist police culture and current political culture ever be capable of foundational change? In the following excerpts from this article, Wright quotes Mark Leonard and Abdulkarim Soroush.
"The sorry state of America’s political and physical health ripples across the globe. The United States, long the bedrock of the Western alliance, is less inspirational today—and perhaps will be even less so tomorrow. “The United States has traditionally had an ability to reinvent itself,” Mark Leonard, the co-founder and director of the European Council on Foreign Relations, told me. “The brutality of the American political system—where entire élites get kicked out whenever there is a change of party at the top—has led to resilience historically. What you see now are structural problems much more difficult to solve.” He added that inequality is so “deeply baked”—in education, property and the economy, job opportunities, gerrymandering of voting districts, policing and justice, and the media—that America is now a “toxic brew” of problems. “That means there’s not much bandwidth in America for thinking about anything other than its culture wars,” he said."
"America today is a capitalist democracy more than a liberal democracy, Soroush said: “Capital is the tyrant here.” Even justice—“the pounding heart of democracy”—has become expensive, he added. “I greatly fear that this may be lost—due to racism, and capitalist democracy and the justice system becoming weaker for the poor. Heaven forbid, if that happens, America would not be the aspiration of anyone in the world.”
There is trouble here for sure. I would say we're in what might be the biggest crisis in our history, because the president endorses the sentiments of those who would destroy our democracy. But I don't think anything is hopeless, myself. I was far more worried during the GWB administration, when the same pieces were in play, but it was more hidden, so most Americans didn't seem to care. Now people are paying attention. Remember, the 1920s looked very similar. When Hoover was elected in 1928, everyone thought the Republicans were going to be in power forever. They had made everything work so very, very well... within a year it was all crashing down, and in 1932, voters turned to the Democrats, who completely uprooted the old system and created a new one. So it CAN be done....
I am a realist and am very hopeful. I have faith in America. These times were inevitable. We are learning so much! Think of the scientific and social communities. We live in amazing times. To be able to witness it first hand is phenomenal.
Wait till you see the media/institutional storm that will explode when/if they can get their hands on Prince Andrew. He's not the brightest...poor thing...but his taste for both spending other peoples money and for the company of "empty-headed" starlets is well know. The uk palace/gouvernment social/political "advice" to the media might mute the affaire at home but the rest of the world would love it. He might be the only "trophy" that Barr will let the investigation win.
The heavily armed alt-right supporters don't really have the power to take over the country, they merely have the power to damage it and sow chaos. It's the organized armed forces that are, for the first time in our country's history, the final arbiters of our disputes over governance. So when you say "[p]repare yourselves for civil war," who, exactly, do you expect to be fighting whom? Besides the military and the police, nobody really has uniforms or organization, so armed nutjobs attempting to storm...well, I'm not sure where. The White House? Congress? The local library? ...would do little more than cause localized death and destruction. And Putin, yet again, would laugh himself sick.
That's why I was very heartened to see top military leaders stepping away from Trump and his attempts to draft them into his autocratic vision. Let's hope it was a real repudiation, and lasts.
I feel compelled to weigh in on this at the risk of seeming like a conspiracy theorist. The idea of a second, tRump inspired, civil war has occurred to me in my nightmares. I, too, am comforted by the fact that the military leadership seems to be distancing itself from the current administration. However, my nightmares resume as I read of the presence of white supremacists in the lower (how low?) ranks and among former military. I recall one chilling article about the FBI having confirmed this (from last year…. Will research and reference it if you like). The most recent article I saw just yesterday shared a picture of a Oregon National Guard member standing in front of an armored vehicle painted with a Proud Boys slogan. The Guardsman acknowledges his involvement in the movement. Can’t help but wonder…. If there’s one, how many others are there? Suggesting these groups are too disorganized to be a real threat, I think, is not taking them nearly seriously enough.
We moved from Central (liberal) New Jersey to lower Delaware to find ourselves right in the middle of tRump country. The presence of gun toting conspiracy theorists and survivalists (many of whom are ex-military) is terrifying. The lines of demarcation are fuzzy unlike our Civil War. Where do you look? At the property line between your backyard and your neighbors?
I'm sorry if I implied that the emboldened alt-right are not to be taken seriously, and the back of my neck prickled that day I saw aphoto of a QAnon patch on a uniform in a group of soldiers greeting Trump at (I think) an Air Force base. Like the rest of our society, our military, too, is riddled with people entranced by "alternative facts," guns, and racial/ideological/religious hatred.
But in the end, civil wars, like all wars, are about territory. That was the most salient feature of our first civil war; the political leaders in charge of about half the territory of the United States tried to secede and form an independent nation. If the only lines of demarcation in the next civil war are neighborhood property lines, then the result will merely be upheaval and chaos, which is still quite deadly enough for my taste. Unless all the right-wing nutjobs move, for instance, to Montana and try their own secession, a true civil war seems unlikely.
My nightmare future, unless we can reform the economic and social fabric of our nation, is that rural America becomes an ungovernable land of uber-wealthy enclaves and corporate factory farms, guarded by private security, and poor, illiterate, abandoned communities under the control of local gangs. In such a sad, poor world, the only territories remaining under the authority of the State and Federal governments would be the metropolitan areas, joined together by corridors along the interstate highway system patrolled by the National Guard and the military. Such a de facto revolution wouldn't even have to be declared or acknowledged by the government; urbanites, especially people of color, would simply know not to leave the pale of the city, and people trapped in rural areas would slip further and further away into superstition, ignorance, and poverty.
Put another way, it's a world of uncontrolled corporate capitalism, feudalism with cellphones.
Laurean: As dramatic and frightening as your comment is, the same thought has crossed my mind on more than a few occasions.
DT throws out allusions to violence when speaking to his followers in the context of losing a rigged election, among others. He demonizes the free press, racial and ethnic minorities, democrats, liberals – basically anyone who challenges or disagrees with him.
The scenario where it seems most likely to spark would be his loss in the November election by any measure short of a landslide; How horrible the resulting blaze is impossible to forecast. My best friend lives in out west and is about the biggest pacifist I’ve ever known – he just bought a rifle because in his neck of the woods, the anger level is palpable. Just looking at the news each day one sees more and more moms and dads wielding firearms at anyone they feel presents a threat to their property – and feel is the operative word here. These folks are not thinking rationally. I pray we are both wrong.
I propose quotation marks for when we refer to the "justice" department.
I agree that Barr's actions in replacing Berman and others is not specifically linked to the Epstein case. Trumps atrocious lack of respect for women and his previous filanderings, gropings and abuse of all and sundry that are not male is known and even "liked" by much of his core support. Trump/Barr are really furthering their governmental policy which says that "the rich and powerfull can do no wrong" and freedom of speech does not include the right to say otherwise. Should their words or deeds contravene the existing laws, you certainly don't prosecute them...you change the law. Trump/Barr would be perfectly at home with the new security law that the chinese communist party has just imposed on Hong Kong.
Yes, it looks like more of their vision that a few rich men should rule everyone else, and are entitled to do so.
Entitled because somehow, to them, the work that other people do counts only as work that they themselves did. "Stop taking the all the results of my work" morphs into the undeserving trying to take what isn't theirs.
I'm not sure even Barr/McConnell/Trump have enough ducks to stomp out all the grass fires currently threatening to become major conflagrations. I personally hope their feathers get too singed for them to fly away.
Just yesterday while surfing the Web, I fell into a Wikipedia account of Thomas Cromwell, a toady of King Henry VIII, who did his dirty work behind the scenes, getting the King’s marriage annulled so he could marry Anne Boleyn then getting Anne beheaded. Really sordid stuff until reading this letter about the goings on with “modern” Royalty and King Bonespur’s toady, William Barr. At least the old corruption had a good ending when the King turned on Cromwell and had him beheaded.
I’m just finishing the third book in Hilary Mantel’s trilogy about Thomas Cromwell. It is historical fiction, but Cromwell seems to have been a complicated man, but a remarkably effective administrator.
I highly recommend the series – the first two books won the Booker Prize.
An edit function would be wonderful ... the two "buts" in my comment just caught my eye.
Great reads. Mantel is a brilliant storyteller.
I love her ...
Thomas Cromwell was a little more important than the credit you give and history has been somewhat kinder to him than you.
Agree. A superficial understanding of Cromwell does him injustice. Henry VIII was not a kind and decent person; many of Cromwell's actions with regard to Henry reflects Henry's abhorrent needs and desires.
As tRump is not a kind and decent person and many of Barr’s actions with regard to tRump reflects tRump’s abhorrent needs and desires.
Correct
I did a 3-sentence condensation of a Wikipedia post for comparison of parallel corrupt loyalists. Perhaps I should have linked it for a more thoro dissertation.
Disgusting how deep the corruption runs! So many threads that tie 45 to the morally bankrupt people who make up his circle of friends. No words suffice to describe this situation. Things must change in November!
Heather, thank you for treating this as a big story!
In the background of that video you mention, one can see Ghislaine nearby. I have followed the Epstein-Maxwell story for years in the hopes that they would would receive what they deserve for the loathsome things they did.
Years ago, I read the story of a young girl, "Katie Johnson", who was held captive in the Epstein Manhattan mansion in 1994 with a 12 year old girl, "Maria". The younger girl had a notebook with details of her trauma which she passed to the 13 year old before trying to escape. She was never heard from again. Katie eventually brought a lawsuit in April 2016 but finally dropped it, citing threats on her life and her family's. Snopes did not refer to these stories as a hoax. I believe there is truth to it based on what has come out since. Both girls mentioned repeated sexual assault by important men, including trump.
That story is what haunted me. I was hoping it be the nail to get dumpy, but the threats made it disappear. Another candidate would have dissipated at even the hint of sex trafficking! dumpy’s got friends in the lowest of places!
I share these letters to facebook each night and attempt to do a little summary of who/what is inside. Just typing 'Ghislaine Maxwell' tonight made me want to vomit. These Epstein 'associates' are human scum.
You know, I think about this more than a little. How does someone become what Maxwell did? I mean, I can accept that there are some people who are just rotters from the start. But what about those people who could go either way? Do they make a baby step in the wrong direction and it just snowballs? Or do they do it consciously because they want the wealth and power that selling your soul brings? I guess this question is as old as the oceans, but seeing it play out around us now in so many ways keeps it front and center in my mind....
I think the mental manipulation goes so deep! Kind of like Stockholm syndrome. And if it starts from what the captured thinks is a good loving relationship, I think it can move rather quickly from would you do this for me to what wouldn’t you do for me. Then it’s a downward spiraling insidious black hole that consumes everything! .... So happy I changed my ending! And Never got anything close to this mess!
You go girl. Changing your ending takes enormous courage. SO cool to have done it!
congratulations on having changed your ending
The manipulated became the manipulator! In the end, he really thought it was his idea to get divorced. My lawyer was very impressed! 😊
You use an important word here “baby”. Of course, you have not used it in the way that I am thinking of it, but any woman who has had a child has to have a conscience about using children in the way that she has — although many mothers have been just as callous. That said, I believe that her luxurious upbringing, the loss of her brother, and the disappointment in her father’s crimes may have catapulted her into the selling of her soul. Who knows ... I just hope that she spills the beans — every single filthy bean.
Tina Fey said there’s a special place in hell for women that are mean to women. Hope it’s extra special bad for women who are mean to children!
So do I, Facebook and Twitter!
One thing that must not be forgotten with regards to Epstein; the predators who associated him had one thing in common: wealth. The people who sought Epstein favors were far ranging. If it should all come out** I believe we will be shocked by some of the names revealed. Base behavior is not constrained political affiliation only by the lack of money to help hide abhorrent behaviors.
** Supposing Maxwell lives long enough to spill the beans.
Wealth and/or power. And I'll bet for all the names we know from the news, there are ten other important but not famous people who are also on the tapes. Guessing a lot of their money came from blackmail.
I'm guessing you're right on both counts; the number of important people in tapes and the use of blackmail. You are absolutely right, about wealth and/or power. They open a lot of doors and hide a lot of sins.
Minor detail, perhaps, but we can all remember how Barr, before he was appointed, actually "auditioned" to be Trump's AG by writing him a long letter. And now it appears to be personal, a deal or quid pro quo, based on his own need to deal with the Epstein problem and a decades-long scandal that led to Barr's farther, and in return, he commited to covering up every one of Trump's crimes.
I didn't know about this letter, actually....
I misspoke calling it a letter. It was a memo debunking the validity of the Mueller probe. I called it an "audition" because many TV analysts and pundits were calling it that. While it didn't expressly address the Epstein issue, which wasn't even in the news at that time, it so overtly validated Trump as to provide assurance of being covered in all legal actions against him. As Mark Warner put it: "I’m thinking it’s more than a little bizarre that a private attorney, Mr. Barr, would write this kind of memo and then in effect give it, my understanding, to officials in the White House almost as an attempt to solicit this position," Warner said. "To say, ‘Hey, Mr. Trump, don’t worry. I’ll have your back on the Mueller investigation.’" https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/422336-dem-senator-barr-gave-memo-to-white-house-almost-as-an-attempt-to-solicit-ag
Yes, you did. It was the “memo” he sent to Trump telling him why he was innocent of any wrongdoing, it was maybe a year (?j before he was appointed.
And can't we imagine there are ways that Trump holds Barr's feet to the fire?
I’ve never have believed that Epstein acted alone in killing himself.
Lots and lots of coincidences that night....
I tend to think it was the equivalent of "assisted suicide".
That's a euphemism, but true! :)
Same here. That jail is too closely watched. Epstein was on suicide watch, and the guards mysteriously took a break. There are too many coincidences.
I work hard to steer clear of conspiracy theories, but for any of the hundreds of men with deep pockets that Epstein had real dirt on, bribing a couple of underpaid security guards who were desperately working the worst shifts must have been remarkably cheap, and a highly valuable investment. Any one of these men could likely also afford to buy off their entire extended families, and thus earn the gratitude of the other hundreds of men in jeopardy. In the end could actually pay better than early Apple stock.
Agreed
Is there a pool on whether Barr will show up for the hearing?
He'll be a no show. Which is why funding to the DOJ needs to be cut off right now.
I read it as Berman is supposed to show up for a hearing next week, not Barr. Is there another hearing? Did I read this wrong?
Yes, Barr is supposed to appear before the House Judiciary Comm late this month. Of course, he’s agreed before and then become too “busy.”
Thank you.
Can Barr be removed by Congress?
Yes, but the Senate will never go there.
Can’t we force their hand? Surely, someone in the Senate must have the guts to stand up to these degenerate bullies! What must be leaked at some point is what 45 has on MoscowMitch and some of the others.
The same kind of thing Putin has on 45: evidence of financial crimes, evidence of toadying to Putin...
Did you see the article today about how if Trump's numbers don't turn around, McConnell will tell Senators to distance themselves from him so the Republicans can try to keep the Senate? Interesting....
No, although there have been articles for a while suggesting that Republican senators are walking tightropes to distance from trump without alienating his supporters.
Barr can be impeached...Senate willing!
Yes, but the Senate will never go there.
So, what ever happened to the "CDs labeled with the names of young girls, the “+” sign, and the names of men"? Will that ever come out?
One wonders, doesn't one?!?...
Thank you for responding to my comment, Heather. A change of subject from Barr/ Epstein/ Maxwell:
Robin Wright wrote an excellent article in The New Yorker today: Will the U.S. with its entrenched racism, inequality, crony capitalism, unjust justice system, gun culture, racist police culture and current political culture ever be capable of foundational change? In the following excerpts from this article, Wright quotes Mark Leonard and Abdulkarim Soroush.
"The sorry state of America’s political and physical health ripples across the globe. The United States, long the bedrock of the Western alliance, is less inspirational today—and perhaps will be even less so tomorrow. “The United States has traditionally had an ability to reinvent itself,” Mark Leonard, the co-founder and director of the European Council on Foreign Relations, told me. “The brutality of the American political system—where entire élites get kicked out whenever there is a change of party at the top—has led to resilience historically. What you see now are structural problems much more difficult to solve.” He added that inequality is so “deeply baked”—in education, property and the economy, job opportunities, gerrymandering of voting districts, policing and justice, and the media—that America is now a “toxic brew” of problems. “That means there’s not much bandwidth in America for thinking about anything other than its culture wars,” he said."
"America today is a capitalist democracy more than a liberal democracy, Soroush said: “Capital is the tyrant here.” Even justice—“the pounding heart of democracy”—has become expensive, he added. “I greatly fear that this may be lost—due to racism, and capitalist democracy and the justice system becoming weaker for the poor. Heaven forbid, if that happens, America would not be the aspiration of anyone in the world.”
https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-columnists/to-the-world-were-now-america-the-racist-and-pitiful
There is trouble here for sure. I would say we're in what might be the biggest crisis in our history, because the president endorses the sentiments of those who would destroy our democracy. But I don't think anything is hopeless, myself. I was far more worried during the GWB administration, when the same pieces were in play, but it was more hidden, so most Americans didn't seem to care. Now people are paying attention. Remember, the 1920s looked very similar. When Hoover was elected in 1928, everyone thought the Republicans were going to be in power forever. They had made everything work so very, very well... within a year it was all crashing down, and in 1932, voters turned to the Democrats, who completely uprooted the old system and created a new one. So it CAN be done....
I am a realist and am very hopeful. I have faith in America. These times were inevitable. We are learning so much! Think of the scientific and social communities. We live in amazing times. To be able to witness it first hand is phenomenal.
Yes, it was an excellent article!
Wait till you see the media/institutional storm that will explode when/if they can get their hands on Prince Andrew. He's not the brightest...poor thing...but his taste for both spending other peoples money and for the company of "empty-headed" starlets is well know. The uk palace/gouvernment social/political "advice" to the media might mute the affaire at home but the rest of the world would love it. He might be the only "trophy" that Barr will let the investigation win.
I am going to come right out and say it. Prepare yourselves for civil war.
The heavily armed alt-right supporters don't really have the power to take over the country, they merely have the power to damage it and sow chaos. It's the organized armed forces that are, for the first time in our country's history, the final arbiters of our disputes over governance. So when you say "[p]repare yourselves for civil war," who, exactly, do you expect to be fighting whom? Besides the military and the police, nobody really has uniforms or organization, so armed nutjobs attempting to storm...well, I'm not sure where. The White House? Congress? The local library? ...would do little more than cause localized death and destruction. And Putin, yet again, would laugh himself sick.
That's why I was very heartened to see top military leaders stepping away from Trump and his attempts to draft them into his autocratic vision. Let's hope it was a real repudiation, and lasts.
I feel compelled to weigh in on this at the risk of seeming like a conspiracy theorist. The idea of a second, tRump inspired, civil war has occurred to me in my nightmares. I, too, am comforted by the fact that the military leadership seems to be distancing itself from the current administration. However, my nightmares resume as I read of the presence of white supremacists in the lower (how low?) ranks and among former military. I recall one chilling article about the FBI having confirmed this (from last year…. Will research and reference it if you like). The most recent article I saw just yesterday shared a picture of a Oregon National Guard member standing in front of an armored vehicle painted with a Proud Boys slogan. The Guardsman acknowledges his involvement in the movement. Can’t help but wonder…. If there’s one, how many others are there? Suggesting these groups are too disorganized to be a real threat, I think, is not taking them nearly seriously enough.
We moved from Central (liberal) New Jersey to lower Delaware to find ourselves right in the middle of tRump country. The presence of gun toting conspiracy theorists and survivalists (many of whom are ex-military) is terrifying. The lines of demarcation are fuzzy unlike our Civil War. Where do you look? At the property line between your backyard and your neighbors?
I'm sorry if I implied that the emboldened alt-right are not to be taken seriously, and the back of my neck prickled that day I saw aphoto of a QAnon patch on a uniform in a group of soldiers greeting Trump at (I think) an Air Force base. Like the rest of our society, our military, too, is riddled with people entranced by "alternative facts," guns, and racial/ideological/religious hatred.
But in the end, civil wars, like all wars, are about territory. That was the most salient feature of our first civil war; the political leaders in charge of about half the territory of the United States tried to secede and form an independent nation. If the only lines of demarcation in the next civil war are neighborhood property lines, then the result will merely be upheaval and chaos, which is still quite deadly enough for my taste. Unless all the right-wing nutjobs move, for instance, to Montana and try their own secession, a true civil war seems unlikely.
My nightmare future, unless we can reform the economic and social fabric of our nation, is that rural America becomes an ungovernable land of uber-wealthy enclaves and corporate factory farms, guarded by private security, and poor, illiterate, abandoned communities under the control of local gangs. In such a sad, poor world, the only territories remaining under the authority of the State and Federal governments would be the metropolitan areas, joined together by corridors along the interstate highway system patrolled by the National Guard and the military. Such a de facto revolution wouldn't even have to be declared or acknowledged by the government; urbanites, especially people of color, would simply know not to leave the pale of the city, and people trapped in rural areas would slip further and further away into superstition, ignorance, and poverty.
Put another way, it's a world of uncontrolled corporate capitalism, feudalism with cellphones.
No worries Dan - we’re on the same page. Terrifying isn’t it?
Laurean: As dramatic and frightening as your comment is, the same thought has crossed my mind on more than a few occasions.
DT throws out allusions to violence when speaking to his followers in the context of losing a rigged election, among others. He demonizes the free press, racial and ethnic minorities, democrats, liberals – basically anyone who challenges or disagrees with him.
The scenario where it seems most likely to spark would be his loss in the November election by any measure short of a landslide; How horrible the resulting blaze is impossible to forecast. My best friend lives in out west and is about the biggest pacifist I’ve ever known – he just bought a rifle because in his neck of the woods, the anger level is palpable. Just looking at the news each day one sees more and more moms and dads wielding firearms at anyone they feel presents a threat to their property – and feel is the operative word here. These folks are not thinking rationally. I pray we are both wrong.
Could you elaborate?
Don't underestimate the white extremists. Their base leaders are from the same county as mine in Iowa. I know their mindset.
America is being trafficked to abusers as much as those young girls (and probably boys) were. I want to vomit.