What is the penalty for blatantly lviolating the Logan Act?
Is there just nothing that applies to tfg that could get him into jail without yearlong back-and-forth? He is violating that act in plain sight. Wouldn't any other private citizen be jailed already?
What is the penalty for blatantly lviolating the Logan Act?
Is there just nothing that applies to tfg that could get him into jail without yearlong back-and-forth? He is violating that act in plain sight. Wouldn't any other private citizen be jailed already?
Correct, but the problem is that Orbán does NOT have a mandate for anything of this kind. He takes advantage of a situation where EU leadership is going through a shuffle after the recent elections. EU has many different 'presidents', which add to the confusion. EU has a completely different foreign policy, and Orbán as usual is a rogue pretender. There will soon be a public announcement on the matter - see this reporting from the Financial Times https://www.ft.com/content/cca3c407-e583-451b-929e-cfcd2cfa223d . Hopefully soon before he causes even more damage.
The EU has been making it very clear he does not. I am waiting to see if they can find a way to address him. He is making these remarks at the same time that the Biden Administration is sharing intelligence with Germany that there is a plan to kill top arms dealers who supply Ukraine with weapons, such a Putin move, of intimidation. Trump would not do this, and that is why Europe is really eager to shut Orbán up. They have blocked him from making the traditional president of the Council of the EU speech. Still, it is a problem that he is acting like Richard Grenell is, by going around representing Trump's interests with right wing governments and movements, seemingly treasonous to the Biden administration. However, there are so many rats coming out, it is hard to catch them all.
What I have read is that the rock and hard place they are in, is if they do too much discipline he will obstruct all Ukraine supports. So, they have to figure out how to put Hungary on notice that if they don't follow the rules with which they first got into the EU they are out. That might wake the population up. They enjoy a better lifestyle from being in the EU. Can Hungary be like Belarus, and be another one of Putin's small state bootlickers, if kicked out? Are the people willing to try?
Thanks for the explanation, but this seems to be another classic case that will end up like a Trumpian slap on the wrist. Orbán is clearly out of control.
They have already been using blocking Orbán. I recall Scholz asking him to not attend a vote on Ukraine. Now they are blocking him from speaking in the presidency. They said there will not be room for 6 months, so that means, when his time is up. So, he is just traveling on his own, while his former coparty member is trying to oust him at home. While I don't know that someone from his party can really bring anything new other than his own corruption, at least he is whistle blowing on Orbán. That is what Trump does. It is a fascist tactic.
Well, Orbán seems to be abusing this privilege. He seems to be milking the position for all it's worth - at least in terms of optics. (Talk about the tail wagging the dog.)
Clearly is the despots are ‘a Clear and present danger’. While Trump is Clearly breaking the law here, the other nefarious Clearly breaking international laws..it is even more clear little can/will be done definitively.
And so …the world turns with the despicable getting away literally with murder, espionage, lying, infiltration, and us holding the high bar of integrity, playing by the rules.
I don’t feel so bad now …thoughts and prayers , huh?
"This is humanly understandable. A shrewd victor will, if possible, always present his demands to the vanquished in installments. And then, with a nation that has lost its character -and this is the case of every one which voluntarily submits - he can be sure that it will not regard one more of these individual oppressions as an adequate reason for taking up arms again."
- Hitler, Mein Kampf
We have been snoozin' and losin'. Now the fascists are saying the implied parts out load, and hopefully (and critically) it is triggering more focused resistance.
Apparently so JL The numbers of people I know who have just shut off the TV, said ‘my vote doesn’t count’, have no clue and don’t want to , amazes me. Family members that will vote Republican because they are registered so , think I’m the brainwashed one, rationalize even the proven lies of TFG!
I pinch myself at times ..am I in a Twilight Zone Nightmare?
But deep down I believe it will be a BLUE TSUNAMI.
Right now some things one can be doing, and that I recommend, are funding AOC who is taking on impeachment proceedings against two of the SCOTUS members, Thomas and Alito. I sent her a donation and used a dummy address in her district to thank her for taking this on. Another thing you can be doing is filing a complaint with the IRS about The Heritage Foundation for violating their tax exempt status. I found information on this after a friend has already sent me some information from Mastodon. So, I am sharing both.
Seen on Mastodon. At this link you can download a PDF form to file a complaint to the IRS, requesting that they revoke the Heritage Foundation‘s non-profit status. Fill out the form and mail it to: eoclass@irs.gov
This is what is suggested on the sample form to fill in:
Based on the statements of Kevin Roberst, the Heritage Foundation’s president, on June 11 and July 2, the foundation’s mission is no longer solely “research and education,” but now includes preparing for a possibly bloody revolution.
Specifically, in an interview on “The War Room” on July 2, Roberts stated that the Heritage Foundation has developed a prominent series of policy plans (Project 2025) to overhaul the federal government under a Republican president, and that the country was “in the process of the second American Revolution, which will remain bloodless if the left allows it to be”
Sure sounds like Roberts and the other authors of Project 2025 are planning to start a bloody war as part of the Heritage Foundation’s mission.
The Heritage Foundation clearly and overtly supports presidential candidate Donald Trump. This show the organization is an 'action organization' and therefore violates the code allowing for tax exemption under 501(c)(3). This is fraudulent. Action must be taken.
You'll need more information about The Heritage Foundation to be able to fill out IRS complaint form 13909. This information is from Jessica Craven, Chop Wood Carry Water:
The Heritage Foundation's street address is 214 Massachusetts Ave. N.E., city is Washington, state is D.C. Zipcode is 20002
Their tax ID/EIN was tricky to submit - you cannot have a hyphen so it's 237327730
You can name both John P. Bakiel (VP of Finance) and Kevin Roberts (President).
Jessica suggested saying something like:
The Heritage Foundation clearly and overtly supports presidential candidate Donald Trump. This show the organization is an 'action organization' and therefore violates the code allowing for tax exemption under 501(c)(3). This is fraudulent. Action must be taken.
I just completed my complaint and found that it is easy to submit electronically. She says, “No need to email. You'll get a download of your submission for your records.” I was not able to do this and had to email it. If you can figure it out, can you please share it.
I don’t doubt that Kevin Roberts, Donald Trump and their ilk want bloodshed, which is a horrible thing to desire. Whether or not Trump wins, I don’t doubt we’ll see violence, and it won’t be coming from the “Left.” We don’t really have a “Left” in any real sense apart from small groups with more bark than bite, and MAGA has a compelling need to make those of us who don’t agree with their plans enemies.
I agree that the left is not the problem. Also, Biden and mainstream Americans voting for him are not "The Left." Unfortunately, the Dems have allowed the Republicans to define them or even some of them as "The Left" for so long it is impossible to take on now. I have neighbors in Chicago that are "The Left." They homeschool differently than "The Right," and they tell me the left is armed. My mom's childhood friend is "The Left" here in Germany and we have coffee about 4 times a year and I get to hear the positions of the left. That is not what Democrats are, not even the so called, "Left wing" of the Democratic party. A resource someone shared yesterday, which I am gathering, about Project 2025 is the Substack called How Project 2025 Will Ruin YOUR Life. https://project2025istheocracy.substack.com/
I recommend reading it if you do and don't read Project 2025 yourself. She is right on the money about what I have read her saying about Education, although so far, I have read that section of Project 2025 and have an even worse picture of what is planned, but at least she gives the Christian Nationalist details that everyone who is not one should understand. It clears up a lot of things.
Linda, it would seem that what the MAGAts describe as "the Left" is becoming "anyone who is left" believing anything tRump after reading and understanding just what Project 2025 and the Republican party are about...which is all of US!
I hesitated when I wrote that, and expected a counter. Yes, you're correct, but MAGA is the party of AR-15s while those opposed are largely armed with burning torches and pitchforks in comparison.
I know. Trump is a sadist, and he sat for several hours watching the bloodshed on January 6. I have no doubt that he wants bloodshed whether or not he wins the election.
We need to punish them too. Going after Trump's supports like Supreme Court justices and the Heritage Foundation. See my post above about filing with the IRS against the Heritage Foundation. We need these complaints to be pouring in. Hopefully, we will be able to do this with all of the funders of SCOTUS and Trump. Biden is now funding the IRS to be able to begin to go after these people. Of course, the Christian Nationalists want the church tax exemptions enshrined in gold.
For their churches only, perhaps the only reason they don’t want to reveal going after other churches (at least until they consolidate enough power), like the GW Bush administration played with.
And the Johnson amendment Marli-- What are the penalties for violating it? The penalty should be each church loses their tax exempt status. It's not like many of these churches help anyone with their hate and anger. Our county of 50,000, has three food banks that feed or supplement almost 5000 people every month. And the Catholic Church comes in and takes credit when they provide a fraction of the support. And yet, they constantly promote the patriarchy and are above the law when it comes to sexual abuse of everyone that isn't a priest.
You expressed my concern regarding the Logan Act. Given the latest from SCOTUS regarding presidential immunity, couldn't the Biden administration now take action against Trump for violating the Act?
Marli, unfortunately it seems like the Logan Act is just words on a paper. Only once was someone charged with a violation, long ago, but never convicted. Here’s a Wiki blurb on it—too bad it doesn’t seem to have any teeth, we could sure use it right about now: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logan_Act
Even if it was invoked - we'd never see a conviction hold up because the corrupt SCOTUS would bend the law as needed or just legislate from the bench which is what they want to do.
What is the penalty for blatantly lviolating the Logan Act?
Is there just nothing that applies to tfg that could get him into jail without yearlong back-and-forth? He is violating that act in plain sight. Wouldn't any other private citizen be jailed already?
I agree, especially because Viktor Orbán does not just represent Hungary. He represents the Council of the EU Presidency.
Correct, but the problem is that Orbán does NOT have a mandate for anything of this kind. He takes advantage of a situation where EU leadership is going through a shuffle after the recent elections. EU has many different 'presidents', which add to the confusion. EU has a completely different foreign policy, and Orbán as usual is a rogue pretender. There will soon be a public announcement on the matter - see this reporting from the Financial Times https://www.ft.com/content/cca3c407-e583-451b-929e-cfcd2cfa223d . Hopefully soon before he causes even more damage.
There is a bit more information in the piece I wrote on the 6th July, on the messed up foreign policy of the EU https://hanschristensen.substack.com/p/eus-messed-up-foreign-policy
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/article/2024/jul/12/patriots-for-europe-viktor-orbans-new-eu-group-is-another-hollow-victory-for-the-far-right?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
These cretins just take a mantle and wave it over whatever they want. A mandate is irrelevant to them. Haven’t we figured that out yet..l
The EU has been making it very clear he does not. I am waiting to see if they can find a way to address him. He is making these remarks at the same time that the Biden Administration is sharing intelligence with Germany that there is a plan to kill top arms dealers who supply Ukraine with weapons, such a Putin move, of intimidation. Trump would not do this, and that is why Europe is really eager to shut Orbán up. They have blocked him from making the traditional president of the Council of the EU speech. Still, it is a problem that he is acting like Richard Grenell is, by going around representing Trump's interests with right wing governments and movements, seemingly treasonous to the Biden administration. However, there are so many rats coming out, it is hard to catch them all.
What about disciplinary action?
What I have read is that the rock and hard place they are in, is if they do too much discipline he will obstruct all Ukraine supports. So, they have to figure out how to put Hungary on notice that if they don't follow the rules with which they first got into the EU they are out. That might wake the population up. They enjoy a better lifestyle from being in the EU. Can Hungary be like Belarus, and be another one of Putin's small state bootlickers, if kicked out? Are the people willing to try?
The EU Council has told him that he is not to speak for the EU in his meeting with Putin.
Thanks for the explanation, but this seems to be another classic case that will end up like a Trumpian slap on the wrist. Orbán is clearly out of control.
Trump and Orbán are both out of control, and if we can save ourselves we must do so.
Only for six months. The EU has a rotating presidency. https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/council-eu/presidency-council-eu/
What exactly can such a political leader accomplish in such a short period of time other than create controversy?
They have already been using blocking Orbán. I recall Scholz asking him to not attend a vote on Ukraine. Now they are blocking him from speaking in the presidency. They said there will not be room for 6 months, so that means, when his time is up. So, he is just traveling on his own, while his former coparty member is trying to oust him at home. While I don't know that someone from his party can really bring anything new other than his own corruption, at least he is whistle blowing on Orbán. That is what Trump does. It is a fascist tactic.
They chair the meetings. That's it.
Well, Orbán seems to be abusing this privilege. He seems to be milking the position for all it's worth - at least in terms of optics. (Talk about the tail wagging the dog.)
Well clearly that.
Clearly is the despots are ‘a Clear and present danger’. While Trump is Clearly breaking the law here, the other nefarious Clearly breaking international laws..it is even more clear little can/will be done definitively.
And so …the world turns with the despicable getting away literally with murder, espionage, lying, infiltration, and us holding the high bar of integrity, playing by the rules.
I don’t feel so bad now …thoughts and prayers , huh?
"This is humanly understandable. A shrewd victor will, if possible, always present his demands to the vanquished in installments. And then, with a nation that has lost its character -and this is the case of every one which voluntarily submits - he can be sure that it will not regard one more of these individual oppressions as an adequate reason for taking up arms again."
- Hitler, Mein Kampf
We have been snoozin' and losin'. Now the fascists are saying the implied parts out load, and hopefully (and critically) it is triggering more focused resistance.
Apparently so JL The numbers of people I know who have just shut off the TV, said ‘my vote doesn’t count’, have no clue and don’t want to , amazes me. Family members that will vote Republican because they are registered so , think I’m the brainwashed one, rationalize even the proven lies of TFG!
I pinch myself at times ..am I in a Twilight Zone Nightmare?
But deep down I believe it will be a BLUE TSUNAMI.
Right now some things one can be doing, and that I recommend, are funding AOC who is taking on impeachment proceedings against two of the SCOTUS members, Thomas and Alito. I sent her a donation and used a dummy address in her district to thank her for taking this on. Another thing you can be doing is filing a complaint with the IRS about The Heritage Foundation for violating their tax exempt status. I found information on this after a friend has already sent me some information from Mastodon. So, I am sharing both.
IRS complaint
https://www.irs.gov/charities-non-profits/irs-complaint-process-tax-exempt-organizations
Seen on Mastodon. At this link you can download a PDF form to file a complaint to the IRS, requesting that they revoke the Heritage Foundation‘s non-profit status. Fill out the form and mail it to: eoclass@irs.gov
This is what is suggested on the sample form to fill in:
Based on the statements of Kevin Roberst, the Heritage Foundation’s president, on June 11 and July 2, the foundation’s mission is no longer solely “research and education,” but now includes preparing for a possibly bloody revolution.
Specifically, in an interview on “The War Room” on July 2, Roberts stated that the Heritage Foundation has developed a prominent series of policy plans (Project 2025) to overhaul the federal government under a Republican president, and that the country was “in the process of the second American Revolution, which will remain bloodless if the left allows it to be”
Sure sounds like Roberts and the other authors of Project 2025 are planning to start a bloody war as part of the Heritage Foundation’s mission.
The Heritage Foundation clearly and overtly supports presidential candidate Donald Trump. This show the organization is an 'action organization' and therefore violates the code allowing for tax exemption under 501(c)(3). This is fraudulent. Action must be taken.
See NYTimes reporting of this incident on July 3rd: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/07/03/us/politics/heritage-foundation-2025-policy-america.html
You'll need more information about The Heritage Foundation to be able to fill out IRS complaint form 13909. This information is from Jessica Craven, Chop Wood Carry Water:
The Heritage Foundation's street address is 214 Massachusetts Ave. N.E., city is Washington, state is D.C. Zipcode is 20002
Their tax ID/EIN was tricky to submit - you cannot have a hyphen so it's 237327730
You can name both John P. Bakiel (VP of Finance) and Kevin Roberts (President).
Jessica suggested saying something like:
The Heritage Foundation clearly and overtly supports presidential candidate Donald Trump. This show the organization is an 'action organization' and therefore violates the code allowing for tax exemption under 501(c)(3). This is fraudulent. Action must be taken.
I just completed my complaint and found that it is easy to submit electronically. She says, “No need to email. You'll get a download of your submission for your records.” I was not able to do this and had to email it. If you can figure it out, can you please share it.
I don’t doubt that Kevin Roberts, Donald Trump and their ilk want bloodshed, which is a horrible thing to desire. Whether or not Trump wins, I don’t doubt we’ll see violence, and it won’t be coming from the “Left.” We don’t really have a “Left” in any real sense apart from small groups with more bark than bite, and MAGA has a compelling need to make those of us who don’t agree with their plans enemies.
I agree that the left is not the problem. Also, Biden and mainstream Americans voting for him are not "The Left." Unfortunately, the Dems have allowed the Republicans to define them or even some of them as "The Left" for so long it is impossible to take on now. I have neighbors in Chicago that are "The Left." They homeschool differently than "The Right," and they tell me the left is armed. My mom's childhood friend is "The Left" here in Germany and we have coffee about 4 times a year and I get to hear the positions of the left. That is not what Democrats are, not even the so called, "Left wing" of the Democratic party. A resource someone shared yesterday, which I am gathering, about Project 2025 is the Substack called How Project 2025 Will Ruin YOUR Life. https://project2025istheocracy.substack.com/
I recommend reading it if you do and don't read Project 2025 yourself. She is right on the money about what I have read her saying about Education, although so far, I have read that section of Project 2025 and have an even worse picture of what is planned, but at least she gives the Christian Nationalist details that everyone who is not one should understand. It clears up a lot of things.
Linda, it would seem that what the MAGAts describe as "the Left" is becoming "anyone who is left" believing anything tRump after reading and understanding just what Project 2025 and the Republican party are about...which is all of US!
They have redefined us and we sometimes answer to it. STOP THAT
Check out this white paper https://davidpakman.com/white-paper/project-2025/
I want to read Project 2025 and I haven’t liked what it has proposed. I agree entirely with your remarks above.
And the MAGA side has all the guns, Kathy.
Not all...
Not even close
I hesitated when I wrote that, and expected a counter. Yes, you're correct, but MAGA is the party of AR-15s while those opposed are largely armed with burning torches and pitchforks in comparison.
I'm pleading the 5th here..
Uh... No they don't.
Kathy, Trump showed that he likes to witness bloodshed when he tried to go with armed supporters to the Capitol.
I know. Trump is a sadist, and he sat for several hours watching the bloodshed on January 6. I have no doubt that he wants bloodshed whether or not he wins the election.
Thanks for the links and information
Marli, Wikipedia says "violators can be punished with fines and up to 3 years" in the Big House.
Merrick Garland, are you there? Yooo hooo.....
We need to punish them too. Going after Trump's supports like Supreme Court justices and the Heritage Foundation. See my post above about filing with the IRS against the Heritage Foundation. We need these complaints to be pouring in. Hopefully, we will be able to do this with all of the funders of SCOTUS and Trump. Biden is now funding the IRS to be able to begin to go after these people. Of course, the Christian Nationalists want the church tax exemptions enshrined in gold.
For their churches only, perhaps the only reason they don’t want to reveal going after other churches (at least until they consolidate enough power), like the GW Bush administration played with.
Heritage is violating its 501(c)(3) exemption, but the SCOTUS majority would find some way to bend, twist and ignore precedent to claim it’s not.
And the Johnson amendment Marli-- What are the penalties for violating it? The penalty should be each church loses their tax exempt status. It's not like many of these churches help anyone with their hate and anger. Our county of 50,000, has three food banks that feed or supplement almost 5000 people every month. And the Catholic Church comes in and takes credit when they provide a fraction of the support. And yet, they constantly promote the patriarchy and are above the law when it comes to sexual abuse of everyone that isn't a priest.
You expressed my concern regarding the Logan Act. Given the latest from SCOTUS regarding presidential immunity, couldn't the Biden administration now take action against Trump for violating the Act?
He would holler and sue, but what is new.
Nice rhyme. 😁
Damn, I’m a poet and didn’t know it…
Ha HA
My first thought was "the extreme court will just ok it" . And there it is. Part of the point is to convince us resistance is futile.
Exactly, a sea change has swept over us without much acknowledgement
Marli, unfortunately it seems like the Logan Act is just words on a paper. Only once was someone charged with a violation, long ago, but never convicted. Here’s a Wiki blurb on it—too bad it doesn’t seem to have any teeth, we could sure use it right about now: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logan_Act
Sounds like the Hatch act which Cheetolini’s admin violated repeatedly.
- Yes; And one should think that a lot of others are have been in violation; Like Greg Abbott for just one.
Even if it was invoked - we'd never see a conviction hold up because the corrupt SCOTUS would bend the law as needed or just legislate from the bench which is what they want to do.