Massively disproportionate response is a war crime, as is indiscriminate bombing, which even Biden mentioned. I don't blame all Israelis, but Netanyahu and fellow extremists continue to be elected. How can you truthfully say that the Palestinians were ever treated fairly. No one in this country has been forced off their land and out of t…
Massively disproportionate response is a war crime, as is indiscriminate bombing, which even Biden mentioned. I don't blame all Israelis, but Netanyahu and fellow extremists continue to be elected. How can you truthfully say that the Palestinians were ever treated fairly. No one in this country has been forced off their land and out of their homes since our horrific genocide of the Native Americans. It isn't done, except during wars of aggression or when colonizers do it, in the name of civilizing the nonwhite savages. (Kidnapping nonwhite people from their homes to bring them here to work for free is a variation on the theme.)
Lisa, in fact, you did blame all Israelis in your original comment.
I have not said that Palestinians have been treated fairly; in fact, I think they are mistreated pawns in a larger struggle. But the mistreatment of Palestinians has not all been from the Israelis. Israel is, in fact, 20% Arab. The Palestinians have been offered a two state solution, more than once, which they themselves rejected. And they rejected it because they do not believe the state of Israel has the right to exist. The stated aim of Hamas is to wipe Israel off the face of the earth. The betrayal of the Palestinian people has been perpetrated by their own leaders, not only in the Palestinian Territories but also in neighboring countries, which have maintained refugee camps for generations rather than integrating refugees, because the refugees are politically useful. I’ve been to a Palestinian refugee camp; I know whereof I speak.
The Israelis are as much the indigenous people of that land as the Palestinians are, despite their own years of diaspora. The hubris of Great Britain in its establishment of boundaries post WW1 in the Middle East is responsible for much of today’s conflict, ignoring as it did tribal boundaries and loyalties and establishing Hashemite kingdoms throughout the region.
I think the behavior of Israeli settlers is reprehensible. I think indiscriminate bombing is horrific. But Hamas itself is responsible for this, first, by its original attack, second, by violating terms of ceasefire, and third, by continuing to hold hostages. No one is blame-free here.
Again, I suggest that you do a lot more reading of the region’s history before you harden your views.
I'm sorry if I blamed all Israelis. I know the arguments, and I always try to learn more. I read that other locations were considered for Israel. I don't think I will ever agree with 2000 year old claims to land ownership. My understanding is that they came in and violently forced people out of their homes and off their land, including instances of rape and a massacre. I would be seething with rage if that happened to my family.
Well, Lisa, you did talk about colonizers, implying that that’s what the Israelis are. It’s hard to be a colonizer in your indigenous land. I am NOT saying that what happened to the Palestinians was fair, or right. I’m only saying that it wasn’t colonization.
I don’t disagree that partition was a mess. It was. And it was vastly unfair. But please do remember that the Jews needed, and still need, a safe haven. They themselves were victims of violent forcing out of their lands, including out of Arab countries after 1948. One might hope that they, of all people, might be more empathetic, but to them it’s existential.
Do you know why Judaism is matriarchal? That is, one is considered a Jew if one’s mother is a Jew. It’s because of generations of systemic rape. And please, don’t ever forget the holocaust and our worldwide guilt for that.
Obviously, the Palestinians got the short end of the world’s stick. But that did happen, so now what? That is the intractable problem. But how do the Israelis negotiate with a group who will only accept Israel’s utter annihilation?
Call it a proxy colony of the US and UK. There should never have had to be unfair offers of a two state solution. As I said, an at least equal state in terms of resources, including compensation, would have made a huge difference. Israel has done the opposite, indoctrinating its young people to hate Palestinians. They have arrogantly and brutally shown zero empathy for the Palestinians. The abuse and murder of them by the IDF has gotten worse and worse and this has also turned people against them. I know many Jews who live perfectly happily here in California; they don't need Israel. Much, not all of the supposed acts of antisemitism include people who dare to criticize Israel. Luckily for Israel, they are backed by literally almost everyone in the US government as well as most Jewish boomers. So they're going to get their way, expelling all Palestinians from tiny Gaza, which has natural gas, and from the West Bank by way of murderous settlers taking their homes. What used to be their sliver of land has been made unliveable for those who haven't been murdered. Thousands of children have lost limbs, many amputated without anesthesia. Every war crime imaginable, all excused because of Hamas, supported originally by Netanyahu to avoid a two state solution. He was duly elected. The idea that "God" chose them to take over the Holy Lands fuels their arrogance and is nothing more than a myth. I don't have to fall in line and you don't have to worry. Israel will keep getting many billions worth of weapons and aid, while many of our citizens live in extreme poverty without healthcare or enough food. You can call me antisemitic. I know I'm not. I have grieved for the victims of the Holocaust many times, as have all sane and loving people. I love and admire from near and afar countless Jewish people . I admire immensely all of the Jews with compassion in their hearts who dare to defy the immense pressure, defamation and misinformation laid on them in this country to see no, speak no, hear no criticism of mighty Israel. The whole MSM censors and distorts information about the situation. Even the attack by Hamas, which was horrific and atrocious from a humanitarian perspective, has been subject to lies and secrecy and half were killed by the IDF. Think of it as more like a slave rebellion by a people long oppressed and terribly abused. Think of it as Jews rising up against the Nazis. They were all helplessly overpowered..
Massively disproportionate response is a war crime, as is indiscriminate bombing, which even Biden mentioned. I don't blame all Israelis, but Netanyahu and fellow extremists continue to be elected. How can you truthfully say that the Palestinians were ever treated fairly. No one in this country has been forced off their land and out of their homes since our horrific genocide of the Native Americans. It isn't done, except during wars of aggression or when colonizers do it, in the name of civilizing the nonwhite savages. (Kidnapping nonwhite people from their homes to bring them here to work for free is a variation on the theme.)
Lisa, in fact, you did blame all Israelis in your original comment.
I have not said that Palestinians have been treated fairly; in fact, I think they are mistreated pawns in a larger struggle. But the mistreatment of Palestinians has not all been from the Israelis. Israel is, in fact, 20% Arab. The Palestinians have been offered a two state solution, more than once, which they themselves rejected. And they rejected it because they do not believe the state of Israel has the right to exist. The stated aim of Hamas is to wipe Israel off the face of the earth. The betrayal of the Palestinian people has been perpetrated by their own leaders, not only in the Palestinian Territories but also in neighboring countries, which have maintained refugee camps for generations rather than integrating refugees, because the refugees are politically useful. I’ve been to a Palestinian refugee camp; I know whereof I speak.
The Israelis are as much the indigenous people of that land as the Palestinians are, despite their own years of diaspora. The hubris of Great Britain in its establishment of boundaries post WW1 in the Middle East is responsible for much of today’s conflict, ignoring as it did tribal boundaries and loyalties and establishing Hashemite kingdoms throughout the region.
I think the behavior of Israeli settlers is reprehensible. I think indiscriminate bombing is horrific. But Hamas itself is responsible for this, first, by its original attack, second, by violating terms of ceasefire, and third, by continuing to hold hostages. No one is blame-free here.
Again, I suggest that you do a lot more reading of the region’s history before you harden your views.
I'm sorry if I blamed all Israelis. I know the arguments, and I always try to learn more. I read that other locations were considered for Israel. I don't think I will ever agree with 2000 year old claims to land ownership. My understanding is that they came in and violently forced people out of their homes and off their land, including instances of rape and a massacre. I would be seething with rage if that happened to my family.
Well, Lisa, you did talk about colonizers, implying that that’s what the Israelis are. It’s hard to be a colonizer in your indigenous land. I am NOT saying that what happened to the Palestinians was fair, or right. I’m only saying that it wasn’t colonization.
I don’t disagree that partition was a mess. It was. And it was vastly unfair. But please do remember that the Jews needed, and still need, a safe haven. They themselves were victims of violent forcing out of their lands, including out of Arab countries after 1948. One might hope that they, of all people, might be more empathetic, but to them it’s existential.
Do you know why Judaism is matriarchal? That is, one is considered a Jew if one’s mother is a Jew. It’s because of generations of systemic rape. And please, don’t ever forget the holocaust and our worldwide guilt for that.
Obviously, the Palestinians got the short end of the world’s stick. But that did happen, so now what? That is the intractable problem. But how do the Israelis negotiate with a group who will only accept Israel’s utter annihilation?
Call it a proxy colony of the US and UK. There should never have had to be unfair offers of a two state solution. As I said, an at least equal state in terms of resources, including compensation, would have made a huge difference. Israel has done the opposite, indoctrinating its young people to hate Palestinians. They have arrogantly and brutally shown zero empathy for the Palestinians. The abuse and murder of them by the IDF has gotten worse and worse and this has also turned people against them. I know many Jews who live perfectly happily here in California; they don't need Israel. Much, not all of the supposed acts of antisemitism include people who dare to criticize Israel. Luckily for Israel, they are backed by literally almost everyone in the US government as well as most Jewish boomers. So they're going to get their way, expelling all Palestinians from tiny Gaza, which has natural gas, and from the West Bank by way of murderous settlers taking their homes. What used to be their sliver of land has been made unliveable for those who haven't been murdered. Thousands of children have lost limbs, many amputated without anesthesia. Every war crime imaginable, all excused because of Hamas, supported originally by Netanyahu to avoid a two state solution. He was duly elected. The idea that "God" chose them to take over the Holy Lands fuels their arrogance and is nothing more than a myth. I don't have to fall in line and you don't have to worry. Israel will keep getting many billions worth of weapons and aid, while many of our citizens live in extreme poverty without healthcare or enough food. You can call me antisemitic. I know I'm not. I have grieved for the victims of the Holocaust many times, as have all sane and loving people. I love and admire from near and afar countless Jewish people . I admire immensely all of the Jews with compassion in their hearts who dare to defy the immense pressure, defamation and misinformation laid on them in this country to see no, speak no, hear no criticism of mighty Israel. The whole MSM censors and distorts information about the situation. Even the attack by Hamas, which was horrific and atrocious from a humanitarian perspective, has been subject to lies and secrecy and half were killed by the IDF. Think of it as more like a slave rebellion by a people long oppressed and terribly abused. Think of it as Jews rising up against the Nazis. They were all helplessly overpowered..