What is Garland waiting for? The criminal case against Trump has to be ironclad. It needs to be bolstered by the findings of the House select committee. The committee's public hearings need to tell the story of sedition against Trump and others in a way that the pubic absorbs. Then come federal charges. And in between all of this, probab…
What is Garland waiting for? The criminal case against Trump has to be ironclad. It needs to be bolstered by the findings of the House select committee. The committee's public hearings need to tell the story of sedition against Trump and others in a way that the pubic absorbs. Then come federal charges. And in between all of this, probably quite soon, he will be indicted in New York for tax fraud and other financial crimes. All of this is uncharted territory for the country. Care and precision are paramount, even in the face of the intense frustration we all feel.
I agree Michael. The United States is not in the habit (thankfully) of indicting and imprisoning former or current Presidents. Besides the longer this takes the more trump is running around bloviating all the while indicting himself. This is actually the best scenario. People will believe trump way more when he speaks of his coup attempt actions that the January 6 Committee. The media is loving this story and is also spreading the word of trump's actions concerning the attempted coup.
But sooner or later Garland must suit up and show up here.
History shows us, to varying degrees, that the USA has had some men (and I use the term because no woman has yet held the office) of pretty questionable character / integrity elected to the Presidency. For some reason, we keep making the terrible mistake of ignoring or discounting all the surrounding, supporting, enabling people who make the election win and subsequent administration possible. It's like a willful blindness, telling us that "this time" is going to be different. Except it isn't, and when the bad things begin to happen, we're surprised.
We need to, as a nation under the Rule of Law, do a much better job of teaching our citizens what Rule of Law actually means, and how to see beyond the popular face on the debate stage or at rallies, so that we can objectively decide whether the 1,500 or so people who will be supporting the popular face are themselves worthy of our trust and confidence.
There have been scoundrels, wastrels, white supremacists, slavery advocates, con artists, grifters, know-nothings, and opportunists of every stripe pushing policies and platforms that have nothing to do with improving the lives of the citizens, and everything to do with improving their personal fortunes, and they've been at it since the very beginning, more than 250 years ago. The current crop of degenerates, however, have proved themselves far worse collectively than anything we've had in the past, with the possible exceptions of a) the day Rep. Preston Brooks caned Sen. Charles Sumner nearly to death on the Senate floor; b) our reprehensible and willing participation in the West African slave trade; c) the cheating of indigenous North American tribes of their ancestral lands, and the executive order that allowed it to happen; d) the internment in camps of Japanese-, Italian-, and German-American citizens during WWII; e) the burning of Greenwood, in Tulsa, Oklahoma; f) the "group-think" decision making that authorized the fatal Challenger launch (the decision was as much economically as scientifically driven); g) the decision to refuse asylum in 1939 to the 1,000 Jewish refugees who were trying to escape Hitler and the Final Solution; h) the decision by the Philadelphia mayor who authorized a parade in 1918 that resulted in thousands of influenza deaths during the pandemic.
And of course, Joe McCarthy and the Devil's minion, Roy Cohn, who created endless chaos and woe with their smarmy, evil persecution of citizens using rumor, innuendo, and brute power. Interesting to note that Cohn later became a pseudo-mentor for TFG, isn't it?
Good examples. Sometimes an individual, sometimes a party (like now?) sometimes the misguided or collective agreement of all. I think (hope) History will look back on this Tr Era as a Repub catastrophe that hurt every citizen in some way. Some more than others but suffering for all. And that Tr and the Repub party bore most of the responsibility.
Nixon was not a career mobster criminal like Trump. If not for Fred’s money and his criminal friends, plus Roy Kohn, Donald could likely have gone to jail. Nixon also turned over material after being ordered to do so by the Supreme Court. I am not a Nixon fan, but his criminality is not in Trump’s league.
Jenn As a member of the Nixon White House Enemies List I state categorically that there is no comparison between Nixon’s Watergate and other peccadillos and Donald Trump, who, as a former history professor, I consider our worst president ever—not only in his lack of progress for our country but also in his dreadful character, from lying,
Attempting to destroying others, and being focused on himself rather than our country. Nixon had some goodpoints—with Trump, I can not think of a single aspect that I would want my grand kids to emulate.
I agree wholeheartedly. Trump is our worst president. He is not smart, but has an animal like cunning when it comes to survival. He is way too unstable to be in any office, EVER!
Setting aside his crimes, Nixon is a good contrast to today's Republicans, who would consider him a flaming liberal. Comparing Nixon and other prominent GOP leaders of his time to the current ones shows how incredibly far the party has moved to the right.
As an example of how weird the world has gotten, the longer Trump lurches around the scene, spouting gas and nonsense, the harder it will be for the Republicans to field a more competent Trump. Don't forget that incompetence was Trump's only saving grace.
As it is, Trump is only attractive to the fools, the venal, and the venal fools. It's the Republican oligarchy-posing-as-conservatiism that we have to discredit, somehow.
Tell me your name is pure Shakespearean poetry! Also the image of gaseous Trump going off like a missile then landing like a limp balloon is priceless.
It is certainly frustrating and stressful waiting. I feel like we’ve been tied down onto train tracks and just starting to hear it coming in the distance.
On Twitter I follow @duty2warn, a group of mental health officials who focus on Trump. This tweet today is music to my ears:
"With an early start today, Trump says it's Pence who should be investigated. He is flailing now. No continuity. Pure malignancy. Blame doesn't play when you're guilty. Victimization doesn't fly when you're a bully. He is self-sabotaging. Desperation, disorder, and decompensation."
I wonder if Pence will ever see the light and publicly admit he’s been used by his former partner. Unbelievable that after the 1/6 nightmare, he did not distance himself from his boss. Of course that was the perfect time for the entire party to reject TFG. They all had a chance. Too bad. Timing is everything.
Worse, what it's blowing for is a full-on civil war. He learned NOTHING from January 6th, and because he's not suffered consequences, he's ratcheting things up again.
While we’re all waiting for democracy to be rescued, Trump, his enablers, and supporters keep escalating the violence, stirring up trouble, eroding democracy, and getting away with their crimes.
Since nothing else is being done (like making Nazi/Nazism a terrorist group, cleaning rotten apples & terrorists out of the military & police, etc), people are putting all hopes towards the House Select Committee finding and stopping the guilty and ending this growing nightmare. Voting it away isn’t going to work because we’re going to lose.
We all hope someone will come along and rescue Pauline, tied to the tracks, from her Peril (coincidenally also the name of Woodward and Costa's new book on the last days of the defeated former president's tenure in office), as in the old silent films. The Select Committee? AG Garland? Hope springs eternal ... and you know the rest.
Uncharted territory. Intense frustration. Yes. I think that we should be facing up to the fact that whatever happens in the New York and Georgia litigation, along with whatever action the Attorney-General takes, the defeated former president will not be going to jail. We just don't do that to ex-presidents. And if the stench of this slowly simmering stew is insufficient to keep the Democrats in control of Congress in a bit over nine months, we can say farewell to all of this as we watch an alternate reality take over.
Even after the Civil War, Confederate President Jefferson Davis only served two years in a relatively comfortable prison environment and was never even tried for treason because the gov't feared doing so would have legitimized the Confederacy; they also had their hands full with Lincoln's successor. They never were able to tie Davis to Lincoln's assassination. Ultimately, he was granted amnesty. You are correct in stating that the whole country was thereby imprisoned for another century without real enforcement of the 13th, 14th and 15th amendments.. Trying Davis would have opened the door to further civil strife which is not unlike today's situation where a defeated former president tried to defy the Constitution.
There is always a first time. And as far as I am concerned, Trump should have been jailed long before now from all that he has done and gotten away with it all.
Mike, while I totally agree that Trump has acted criminally, I am not a lawyer. Garland’s DOJ has increasingly indicted 1/6 perpetrators for ‘sedition.’ Other perps are being summoned (and subpoenaed) to appear before the House 1/6 committee. I believe that some of these Trump co-conspirators will be indicted.
Dealing with an ex-president, especially such a fake icon as Trump, is on a different level. [Remember that President Ford pardoned ex-Prez Nixon to get our country back on a more even keel.] Ultimately Attorney General Garland will have to decide whether ‘the evidence’ merits a criminal indictment of Messiah Trump. Clearly there are political implications and Trump’s Kool Aid followers would be extremely rambunctious.
Meanwhile, Trump is embroiled in diverse civil and criminal ‘inconveniences.’ I hope that he experiences black garlands from Garland, but I’m ready to wait and see.
Rambunctious is an interesting choice here. I would say they will be very dangerous and already are because of the constant death threats directed at anyone trying to do anything about death star. It is clear that the committee and the DOJ are going up the food chain. I see below a post that says the case must be airtight and I agree with TCinLA. It is very frustrating to be patient.
In order to get to the Godfather, you have to get to his hit men. That’s what the Select Committee and Garland are doing. We are now seeing the pathetic melting-down (think of the Wicked Witch) of a murderous buffoon. Quite frankly, he’s continued to shovel more dirt into his grave and I am enjoying that.
It has to be air tight. No doubt about that. I'm willing to wait to give the bigger brains than mine to do their due diligence. I can't wait for the hearings!!! That's gonna be excellent!
Tribe is a brilliant Constitutional Law scholar; an academician. But he isn’t on the daily update list from Homeland Security, the FBI, and the Secretary of State’s office. More going on behind the scenes I think and Tribe needs to get a grip on his ego. He’s no longer Garland’s law professor and therefore the only expert in the room.
Thanks for the insights into Tribe, Sheila. And, yes, I agree, there's much more going on behind the scenes. How effective will the "super-sting" of tRump be if every law professor and CNN reporter had a daily play-by-play from DOJ et al. We elected Joe Biden to stop the tyranny and the tyrant. Every branch and level of government is doing its part as well. Public Congressional January 6 hearings will be televised live soon. This is a carefully, cleverly orchestrated investigation to:
1) Get the defeated former guy
2) Convince We The People that he needs to be gotten
3) Lock up TDFG's Brown Shirts so his army is disarmed
Each person is entitled to their opinion, of course, but I can't say I ever get a vibe of arrogance from Tribe. It isn't about having been Garland's law professor, I think he is spot on in his analysis and as Sheila said, he is a Constitutional Law Scholar, much like Rep. Jamie Raskin, only years his senior.
I believe it's more sinister. Have all the Trump people been ferreted out of DOJ? He put a lot of his people in the ranks. They could easily be slow walking everything.
This is an aside but tangential to the trump administration stink lingering in DC. The Equal Rights Amendment has been ratified by 38 states, however it is not recognized as part of the Constitution for legal purposes!! Why? The national archivist was directed No to certify the Amendment by the trump admin! That memo is still ‘active’ and preventing the ERA from becoming law!
When the ERA first passed Congress, it had an unusual section saying that it had to be ratified within a limited number of years to be successful. The deadline was extended once or twice, then ran out. The last state ratified years after the deadline expired.
From the Ms. article: "“Earlier this month, Columbia University’s ERA Project released a detailed analysis signed by top constitutional law scholars explaining why the OLC memo was flawed. And 16 scholars, including Tribe, Roberts, Crenshaw and Sullivan, recently released a legal brief arguing that the ERA is validly ratified.
States did not vote for the timeline—states voted for the text of the ERA. The timeline was in a preamble. The timeline is definitely not binding on Congress,” said Georgetown Law Professor Victoria Nourse, who was among the law scholars who signed the statement.
“There is within the language of the amendment itself no deadline for ratification,” said constitutional law scholar and Dean Erwin Chemerinksy of Berkeley Law School. “I think the Trump administration and the Justice Department was just wrong. The OLC memo said that there was a seven-year deadline for ratification based on the preamble to the ERA, not the language of the amendment. There are constitutional amendments that say within the text that they must be ratified within seven years. The ERA is not such an amendment.”
As noted in the article, the archivist has to certify the ratification. Until that is done, according to Ms Maloney’s radio interview, judges cannot cite it in any rulings!
I agree, Michael. Regardless of what we here believe or what the House select committee reveals, there are many adherents to TFG's insanity who will never sign on to his obvious promotion of this farce. His guilt will not be enough to punish him unless Garland and the DOJ can make it stick. This dance must be orchestrated with great precision, regardless of our frustration.
Trump's end game is Putin's end game, which is to create turmoil within our country so we implode. Is it worth it? America is already torn apart. It is worth it because there has to be rule of law in this country. It has to be, because we still have a Constitution. There are already families all over the country that have been torn apart, where adult children cannot speak with their parents, where friends for years no longer speak. It isn't about "getting to Trump", it is about holding him accountable for his actions. He is now speaking publicly about his crimes. That takes a lot of brass and it's because he has gotten away with it so far. He is not king. It is not in the Constitution that we allow dictators to rule in this country. Bannon said early on in 2015 that he wanted to bring down the government of this country. I thought he was nuts, I thought that couldn't happen, and here we are. Not holding Trump accountable will only spawn more like him, and they are out there, DeSantis and Youngkin for example. I'm not waiting for the GOP to win in 2022. I don't think it is a fait accompli. We have a lot of work to do to hold on to our democracy.
Glad you mentioned Bannon - that he was chosen as TFGs Chief Strategist says a lot.... so many of our former friends didn't catch that part of TFG and still don't 'get' that, and likely never will....
Non only Bannon. Paul Manafort was working for free for Trump and that was a mystery to many of us. For years and years, he had been working for the Kremlin, and there he was working for Trump, no doubt in tandem with Russia.
So much happened early on, before TFG even announced he was running for president. It could have been missed if a person wasn't paying close attention.
All of this is not "just to get Trump". It's one of many undertakings to fight against the monsters released by Trump and to save our democratic union. Trump is a huge figurehead for the extreme right, those threatening mayhem if Trump is charged with the crimes he has committed, and that head needs to be removed in a manner that leaves no uncertainty that he is a criminal who has criminally used the position of the President of the United States of America in his (and others') efforts to turn our democracy into an authoritarian, even fascist, states of america.
To remove the uncertainty you describe will require a trial ... and that might be counterproductive for the preserving of democracy in America. The time is not ripe for one now. The battle against the extreme right, which goes back to John Calhoun before the Civil War, must continue, but within the law. The law cannot be ignored, even if it takes much longer that way.
We're damned if we do and damned if we don't. We must continue forward to hold TFG accountable. Failing to do so will encourage him & his followers in their beliefs that he is right in his claims & right in his desire to become president again. His violent right-wing supporters are already threatening violence if TFG is charged in Georgia or New York. He must be stopped.
I lifted this Churchill quote from the Greg Olear blog of May 21, 2021, link posted here a few days ago: "“An appeaser is one who feeds the crocodile—hoping it will eat him last,” wrote Winston Churchill." Failing to hold TFG accountable is no different from Neville Chamberlain's efforts at appeasement vis a vis Hitler.
If the extreme right goes beyond the freedom of expression guaranteed by the First Amendment, and commits acts of violence, they must be apprehended and punished to the full expent of the law. As guilty of crimes as the defeated former president seems to be, efforts to hold him accountable must also be within the law. As some of the words of "America the Beautiful" advise, "God mend thine ev’ry flaw, Confirm thy soul in self-control, Thy liberty in law."
"As guilty of crimes as the defeated former president seems to be, efforts to hold him accountable must also be within the law." That's exactly what is in process as we write. We cannot blink because of your belief that a trial would be "counterproductive". Doing nothing, as you suggest above, would be "counterproductive".
I'm not saying 'doing nothing..' The time must be ripe for indictment and a trial. Now? Before the 2022 elections? After the elections? While the defeated former president still has some power? Waiting for it to lessen? I don't know, but the timing is very important or it could be counterproductive in terms of civil violence in which it might result.
Earlier today, another commenter charitably characterized the possible reaction of the supporters of the defeated former president to an indictment as 'rambunctious." The "next civil war" will not be like the last one. In fact, we are gradually slipping into it today. It will take place on the internet, in legislatures (both real and rump) and in violent demostrations by both sides ultimately put down by law enforcement allied to one of the sides. Look for more events like those which occurred in Charlottsville, Portland, Minneapolis, and of course, the Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021. The winner will be the side that is most convincing.
Yet another reason why our current government is working not just to investigate, charge and indict, but also is presenting the case for democracy in the congressional court of opinion. Plus, we are already in civil war.
A "congressional court of opinion," so long as Kevin McCarthy and Mitch McConnell call the shots for their party, is not possible. We all know precisely what the vote will be in both Houses. The case must be convincingly presented to a 'public' court of opinion. Agree that we are already in a different kind of civil war right now.
Correct! The plays a coach calls in the last minutes of a football game differ from the rest of the game, as many of the NFL playoff games proved this year. Better to lock in the win before the final minutes of the game arrive. A bit over nine months remain until Election Day.
What is Garland waiting for? The criminal case against Trump has to be ironclad. It needs to be bolstered by the findings of the House select committee. The committee's public hearings need to tell the story of sedition against Trump and others in a way that the pubic absorbs. Then come federal charges. And in between all of this, probably quite soon, he will be indicted in New York for tax fraud and other financial crimes. All of this is uncharted territory for the country. Care and precision are paramount, even in the face of the intense frustration we all feel.
I agree Michael. The United States is not in the habit (thankfully) of indicting and imprisoning former or current Presidents. Besides the longer this takes the more trump is running around bloviating all the while indicting himself. This is actually the best scenario. People will believe trump way more when he speaks of his coup attempt actions that the January 6 Committee. The media is loving this story and is also spreading the word of trump's actions concerning the attempted coup.
But sooner or later Garland must suit up and show up here.
Other presidents were not mobster type criminals like Trump.
History shows us, to varying degrees, that the USA has had some men (and I use the term because no woman has yet held the office) of pretty questionable character / integrity elected to the Presidency. For some reason, we keep making the terrible mistake of ignoring or discounting all the surrounding, supporting, enabling people who make the election win and subsequent administration possible. It's like a willful blindness, telling us that "this time" is going to be different. Except it isn't, and when the bad things begin to happen, we're surprised.
We need to, as a nation under the Rule of Law, do a much better job of teaching our citizens what Rule of Law actually means, and how to see beyond the popular face on the debate stage or at rallies, so that we can objectively decide whether the 1,500 or so people who will be supporting the popular face are themselves worthy of our trust and confidence.
There have been scoundrels, wastrels, white supremacists, slavery advocates, con artists, grifters, know-nothings, and opportunists of every stripe pushing policies and platforms that have nothing to do with improving the lives of the citizens, and everything to do with improving their personal fortunes, and they've been at it since the very beginning, more than 250 years ago. The current crop of degenerates, however, have proved themselves far worse collectively than anything we've had in the past, with the possible exceptions of a) the day Rep. Preston Brooks caned Sen. Charles Sumner nearly to death on the Senate floor; b) our reprehensible and willing participation in the West African slave trade; c) the cheating of indigenous North American tribes of their ancestral lands, and the executive order that allowed it to happen; d) the internment in camps of Japanese-, Italian-, and German-American citizens during WWII; e) the burning of Greenwood, in Tulsa, Oklahoma; f) the "group-think" decision making that authorized the fatal Challenger launch (the decision was as much economically as scientifically driven); g) the decision to refuse asylum in 1939 to the 1,000 Jewish refugees who were trying to escape Hitler and the Final Solution; h) the decision by the Philadelphia mayor who authorized a parade in 1918 that resulted in thousands of influenza deaths during the pandemic.
And of course, Joe McCarthy and the Devil's minion, Roy Cohn, who created endless chaos and woe with their smarmy, evil persecution of citizens using rumor, innuendo, and brute power. Interesting to note that Cohn later became a pseudo-mentor for TFG, isn't it?
Your comment is very well worded indeed, yet I'd say it is significant that Cohn mentored TFG... on their boss's behalf.
If Macbeth drank from the witches' cauldron, TFG behaves as though he'd bathed in it.
Good examples. Sometimes an individual, sometimes a party (like now?) sometimes the misguided or collective agreement of all. I think (hope) History will look back on this Tr Era as a Repub catastrophe that hurt every citizen in some way. Some more than others but suffering for all. And that Tr and the Repub party bore most of the responsibility.
Nixon was.
Nixon was not a career mobster criminal like Trump. If not for Fred’s money and his criminal friends, plus Roy Kohn, Donald could likely have gone to jail. Nixon also turned over material after being ordered to do so by the Supreme Court. I am not a Nixon fan, but his criminality is not in Trump’s league.
Jenn As a member of the Nixon White House Enemies List I state categorically that there is no comparison between Nixon’s Watergate and other peccadillos and Donald Trump, who, as a former history professor, I consider our worst president ever—not only in his lack of progress for our country but also in his dreadful character, from lying,
Attempting to destroying others, and being focused on himself rather than our country. Nixon had some goodpoints—with Trump, I can not think of a single aspect that I would want my grand kids to emulate.
I agree wholeheartedly. Trump is our worst president. He is not smart, but has an animal like cunning when it comes to survival. He is way too unstable to be in any office, EVER!
But in Nixon's early years in Congress, he was part of Joe McCarthy's awful witch hunt for Communists which ruined the lives of many people.
Nixon needed to ‘make his bones’ as a certified commie hunter, especially amongst those ‘snobs’ in the movie industry!
Agreed! Nixon paranoid and insecure but did not possess trump’s level of Di stain for the law!
Maybe Nixon was more in tune with feeling the emotion of FEAR. TFG seems to use Fear to intimidate. Or maybe Nixon was adept at both.
Almost. But in comparison, he was a wonky statesman.
Hurts to say it but Nixon actually did some good things for the country. https://www.whitehouse.gov/about-the-white-house/presidents/richard-m-nixon/
Clean Air Act for one. And his plan for health care was much more generous than ACA 1.0. But let’s not keep lowering the bar!
Setting aside his crimes, Nixon is a good contrast to today's Republicans, who would consider him a flaming liberal. Comparing Nixon and other prominent GOP leaders of his time to the current ones shows how incredibly far the party has moved to the right.
And sadly, how far right the left has gone too.
That reminds me of what Nixon told the citizens of the U.S. and the world on TV: "I'M NOT A CROOK." Yeah, right.
Ha! Pales in comparison to being told to utilize bleach and UV lights to clean innards.
Disagree, Barbara. Nixon was crass and entitled to break the law, but he wasn't a mobster with a lifelong history of criminal behavior.
As an example of how weird the world has gotten, the longer Trump lurches around the scene, spouting gas and nonsense, the harder it will be for the Republicans to field a more competent Trump. Don't forget that incompetence was Trump's only saving grace.
As it is, Trump is only attractive to the fools, the venal, and the venal fools. It's the Republican oligarchy-posing-as-conservatiism that we have to discredit, somehow.
Tell me your name is pure Shakespearean poetry! Also the image of gaseous Trump going off like a missile then landing like a limp balloon is priceless.
Thanks for the compliment! Not that Trump would go very far -- he'd probably just skittle circles around on the floor making sad, wheezing sounds.
Exactly right.
It is certainly frustrating and stressful waiting. I feel like we’ve been tied down onto train tracks and just starting to hear it coming in the distance.
No doubt how Trump feels right now. There’s probably really bad news for him this week - his desperate plea for protesting “racists” is such a tell.
On Twitter I follow @duty2warn, a group of mental health officials who focus on Trump. This tweet today is music to my ears:
"With an early start today, Trump says it's Pence who should be investigated. He is flailing now. No continuity. Pure malignancy. Blame doesn't play when you're guilty. Victimization doesn't fly when you're a bully. He is self-sabotaging. Desperation, disorder, and decompensation."
https://twitter.com/duty2warn/status/1488528286246395906?s=20&t=nQdrUS9HCJ0wjQTkIoNQqA
I wonder if Pence will ever see the light and publicly admit he’s been used by his former partner. Unbelievable that after the 1/6 nightmare, he did not distance himself from his boss. Of course that was the perfect time for the entire party to reject TFG. They all had a chance. Too bad. Timing is everything.
Doubt it. He wants back in the game, though his chances are slim until (if) his party regains its lost mind.
Music to my ears!! 🎶 self sabotage is perfect ending for him. Godspeed!
Just possibly flailing TFG will twirl like a drill bit into the ground and find himself at the molten core of the Earth, aka Hell.
Exactly, the whistle is blowing
Worse, what it's blowing for is a full-on civil war. He learned NOTHING from January 6th, and because he's not suffered consequences, he's ratcheting things up again.
We've been hearing it coming since November 2016.
More like waiting on the platform than being tied to the tracks, which can be fatal.
No, I meant it to be ‘fatal’.
While we’re all waiting for democracy to be rescued, Trump, his enablers, and supporters keep escalating the violence, stirring up trouble, eroding democracy, and getting away with their crimes.
Since nothing else is being done (like making Nazi/Nazism a terrorist group, cleaning rotten apples & terrorists out of the military & police, etc), people are putting all hopes towards the House Select Committee finding and stopping the guilty and ending this growing nightmare. Voting it away isn’t going to work because we’re going to lose.
We all hope someone will come along and rescue Pauline, tied to the tracks, from her Peril (coincidenally also the name of Woodward and Costa's new book on the last days of the defeated former president's tenure in office), as in the old silent films. The Select Committee? AG Garland? Hope springs eternal ... and you know the rest.
Uncharted territory. Intense frustration. Yes. I think that we should be facing up to the fact that whatever happens in the New York and Georgia litigation, along with whatever action the Attorney-General takes, the defeated former president will not be going to jail. We just don't do that to ex-presidents. And if the stench of this slowly simmering stew is insufficient to keep the Democrats in control of Congress in a bit over nine months, we can say farewell to all of this as we watch an alternate reality take over.
As a foreigner, I just cannot make sense of what you have written.
Either crime is punished, regardless of the identity and status of the criminal, or the whole country is in effect imprisoned.
Even after the Civil War, Confederate President Jefferson Davis only served two years in a relatively comfortable prison environment and was never even tried for treason because the gov't feared doing so would have legitimized the Confederacy; they also had their hands full with Lincoln's successor. They never were able to tie Davis to Lincoln's assassination. Ultimately, he was granted amnesty. You are correct in stating that the whole country was thereby imprisoned for another century without real enforcement of the 13th, 14th and 15th amendments.. Trying Davis would have opened the door to further civil strife which is not unlike today's situation where a defeated former president tried to defy the Constitution.
There is always a first time. And as far as I am concerned, Trump should have been jailed long before now from all that he has done and gotten away with it all.
He shall be Al Caponed
Mike, while I totally agree that Trump has acted criminally, I am not a lawyer. Garland’s DOJ has increasingly indicted 1/6 perpetrators for ‘sedition.’ Other perps are being summoned (and subpoenaed) to appear before the House 1/6 committee. I believe that some of these Trump co-conspirators will be indicted.
Dealing with an ex-president, especially such a fake icon as Trump, is on a different level. [Remember that President Ford pardoned ex-Prez Nixon to get our country back on a more even keel.] Ultimately Attorney General Garland will have to decide whether ‘the evidence’ merits a criminal indictment of Messiah Trump. Clearly there are political implications and Trump’s Kool Aid followers would be extremely rambunctious.
Meanwhile, Trump is embroiled in diverse civil and criminal ‘inconveniences.’ I hope that he experiences black garlands from Garland, but I’m ready to wait and see.
Rambunctious is an interesting choice here. I would say they will be very dangerous and already are because of the constant death threats directed at anyone trying to do anything about death star. It is clear that the committee and the DOJ are going up the food chain. I see below a post that says the case must be airtight and I agree with TCinLA. It is very frustrating to be patient.
I agree. And the case WILL be airtight. I am stocking up on popcorn and St. Ambrose Cellars mead for the Congressional 1/6 hearings.
Does single malt go with popcorn??!
Mmmmmmmm.!!
In order to get to the Godfather, you have to get to his hit men. That’s what the Select Committee and Garland are doing. We are now seeing the pathetic melting-down (think of the Wicked Witch) of a murderous buffoon. Quite frankly, he’s continued to shovel more dirt into his grave and I am enjoying that.
It has to be air tight. No doubt about that. I'm willing to wait to give the bigger brains than mine to do their due diligence. I can't wait for the hearings!!! That's gonna be excellent!
Exactly right, Michael Bales and TC. Will someone please explain this to Lawrence Tribe? I'm beginning to wonder who is paying his salary.
Tribe is a brilliant Constitutional Law scholar; an academician. But he isn’t on the daily update list from Homeland Security, the FBI, and the Secretary of State’s office. More going on behind the scenes I think and Tribe needs to get a grip on his ego. He’s no longer Garland’s law professor and therefore the only expert in the room.
Thanks for the insights into Tribe, Sheila. And, yes, I agree, there's much more going on behind the scenes. How effective will the "super-sting" of tRump be if every law professor and CNN reporter had a daily play-by-play from DOJ et al. We elected Joe Biden to stop the tyranny and the tyrant. Every branch and level of government is doing its part as well. Public Congressional January 6 hearings will be televised live soon. This is a carefully, cleverly orchestrated investigation to:
1) Get the defeated former guy
2) Convince We The People that he needs to be gotten
3) Lock up TDFG's Brown Shirts so his army is disarmed
4) Make it stick.
Do we have a date yet for when the televised hearings will start?
Not more than "early February" as far as I know.
I've read late March or early April.
Thanks, Mim.
Each person is entitled to their opinion, of course, but I can't say I ever get a vibe of arrogance from Tribe. It isn't about having been Garland's law professor, I think he is spot on in his analysis and as Sheila said, he is a Constitutional Law Scholar, much like Rep. Jamie Raskin, only years his senior.
Well he is no doubt enjoying the spotlight.
I believe it's more sinister. Have all the Trump people been ferreted out of DOJ? He put a lot of his people in the ranks. They could easily be slow walking everything.
This is an aside but tangential to the trump administration stink lingering in DC. The Equal Rights Amendment has been ratified by 38 states, however it is not recognized as part of the Constitution for legal purposes!! Why? The national archivist was directed No to certify the Amendment by the trump admin! That memo is still ‘active’ and preventing the ERA from becoming law!
When the ERA first passed Congress, it had an unusual section saying that it had to be ratified within a limited number of years to be successful. The deadline was extended once or twice, then ran out. The last state ratified years after the deadline expired.
From the Ms. article: "“Earlier this month, Columbia University’s ERA Project released a detailed analysis signed by top constitutional law scholars explaining why the OLC memo was flawed. And 16 scholars, including Tribe, Roberts, Crenshaw and Sullivan, recently released a legal brief arguing that the ERA is validly ratified.
States did not vote for the timeline—states voted for the text of the ERA. The timeline was in a preamble. The timeline is definitely not binding on Congress,” said Georgetown Law Professor Victoria Nourse, who was among the law scholars who signed the statement.
“There is within the language of the amendment itself no deadline for ratification,” said constitutional law scholar and Dean Erwin Chemerinksy of Berkeley Law School. “I think the Trump administration and the Justice Department was just wrong. The OLC memo said that there was a seven-year deadline for ratification based on the preamble to the ERA, not the language of the amendment. There are constitutional amendments that say within the text that they must be ratified within seven years. The ERA is not such an amendment.”
The information shared was from Rep Maloney (NY) during a morning interview on NPR. Yes the extension was mentioned.
A commenter(sorry I can’t remember who?) recently shared this link:
https://msmagazine.com/2022/01/27/equal-rights-amendment-resolution-us-house-28th-amendment-constitution/
As noted in the article, the archivist has to certify the ratification. Until that is done, according to Ms Maloney’s radio interview, judges cannot cite it in any rulings!
Agreed !But for some, like me:), it helps to be able to read through the process.
I agree, Michael. Regardless of what we here believe or what the House select committee reveals, there are many adherents to TFG's insanity who will never sign on to his obvious promotion of this farce. His guilt will not be enough to punish him unless Garland and the DOJ can make it stick. This dance must be orchestrated with great precision, regardless of our frustration.
And as soon as Trump is charged with a crime at a federal level, the next civil war will begin.
State against state.
Republican against Democrat.
Neighbor against neighbor.
Family against family.
Is it worth tearing America apart just to get to Trump? Or just maybe this is his game plan? “ If I can’t rule America, I will destroy it”
Trump's end game is Putin's end game, which is to create turmoil within our country so we implode. Is it worth it? America is already torn apart. It is worth it because there has to be rule of law in this country. It has to be, because we still have a Constitution. There are already families all over the country that have been torn apart, where adult children cannot speak with their parents, where friends for years no longer speak. It isn't about "getting to Trump", it is about holding him accountable for his actions. He is now speaking publicly about his crimes. That takes a lot of brass and it's because he has gotten away with it so far. He is not king. It is not in the Constitution that we allow dictators to rule in this country. Bannon said early on in 2015 that he wanted to bring down the government of this country. I thought he was nuts, I thought that couldn't happen, and here we are. Not holding Trump accountable will only spawn more like him, and they are out there, DeSantis and Youngkin for example. I'm not waiting for the GOP to win in 2022. I don't think it is a fait accompli. We have a lot of work to do to hold on to our democracy.
Glad you mentioned Bannon - that he was chosen as TFGs Chief Strategist says a lot.... so many of our former friends didn't catch that part of TFG and still don't 'get' that, and likely never will....
Non only Bannon. Paul Manafort was working for free for Trump and that was a mystery to many of us. For years and years, he had been working for the Kremlin, and there he was working for Trump, no doubt in tandem with Russia.
So much happened early on, before TFG even announced he was running for president. It could have been missed if a person wasn't paying close attention.
All of this is not "just to get Trump". It's one of many undertakings to fight against the monsters released by Trump and to save our democratic union. Trump is a huge figurehead for the extreme right, those threatening mayhem if Trump is charged with the crimes he has committed, and that head needs to be removed in a manner that leaves no uncertainty that he is a criminal who has criminally used the position of the President of the United States of America in his (and others') efforts to turn our democracy into an authoritarian, even fascist, states of america.
To remove the uncertainty you describe will require a trial ... and that might be counterproductive for the preserving of democracy in America. The time is not ripe for one now. The battle against the extreme right, which goes back to John Calhoun before the Civil War, must continue, but within the law. The law cannot be ignored, even if it takes much longer that way.
We're damned if we do and damned if we don't. We must continue forward to hold TFG accountable. Failing to do so will encourage him & his followers in their beliefs that he is right in his claims & right in his desire to become president again. His violent right-wing supporters are already threatening violence if TFG is charged in Georgia or New York. He must be stopped.
I lifted this Churchill quote from the Greg Olear blog of May 21, 2021, link posted here a few days ago: "“An appeaser is one who feeds the crocodile—hoping it will eat him last,” wrote Winston Churchill." Failing to hold TFG accountable is no different from Neville Chamberlain's efforts at appeasement vis a vis Hitler.
If the extreme right goes beyond the freedom of expression guaranteed by the First Amendment, and commits acts of violence, they must be apprehended and punished to the full expent of the law. As guilty of crimes as the defeated former president seems to be, efforts to hold him accountable must also be within the law. As some of the words of "America the Beautiful" advise, "God mend thine ev’ry flaw, Confirm thy soul in self-control, Thy liberty in law."
"As guilty of crimes as the defeated former president seems to be, efforts to hold him accountable must also be within the law." That's exactly what is in process as we write. We cannot blink because of your belief that a trial would be "counterproductive". Doing nothing, as you suggest above, would be "counterproductive".
I'm not saying 'doing nothing..' The time must be ripe for indictment and a trial. Now? Before the 2022 elections? After the elections? While the defeated former president still has some power? Waiting for it to lessen? I don't know, but the timing is very important or it could be counterproductive in terms of civil violence in which it might result.
YES. Exactly what you said Judith.
Earlier today, another commenter charitably characterized the possible reaction of the supporters of the defeated former president to an indictment as 'rambunctious." The "next civil war" will not be like the last one. In fact, we are gradually slipping into it today. It will take place on the internet, in legislatures (both real and rump) and in violent demostrations by both sides ultimately put down by law enforcement allied to one of the sides. Look for more events like those which occurred in Charlottsville, Portland, Minneapolis, and of course, the Capitol on Jan. 6, 2021. The winner will be the side that is most convincing.
Well, that was Hitler's end scheme - he even sent people out to dynamite what the Allies hadn't knocked down (which fortunately didn't much happen)
Yes. They’re all creeps. We don’t have an America with them in it. They need to be rounded up and exiled.
Nice thought, but we don't exile people.
Yet another reason why our current government is working not just to investigate, charge and indict, but also is presenting the case for democracy in the congressional court of opinion. Plus, we are already in civil war.
A "congressional court of opinion," so long as Kevin McCarthy and Mitch McConnell call the shots for their party, is not possible. We all know precisely what the vote will be in both Houses. The case must be convincingly presented to a 'public' court of opinion. Agree that we are already in a different kind of civil war right now.
Timing is everything.
Correct! The plays a coach calls in the last minutes of a football game differ from the rest of the game, as many of the NFL playoff games proved this year. Better to lock in the win before the final minutes of the game arrive. A bit over nine months remain until Election Day.