I see the problem as the result of a culture that in the last 40 years has focused only on rights, and not on the responsibilities that go with them. We have had increasing vandalism, theft, other various more violent crimes, culminating in the first school mass shooting at Columbine in 1999.
We’ve had lots of guns throughout our histor…
I see the problem as the result of a culture that in the last 40 years has focused only on rights, and not on the responsibilities that go with them. We have had increasing vandalism, theft, other various more violent crimes, culminating in the first school mass shooting at Columbine in 1999.
We’ve had lots of guns throughout our history, the vast majority owned and used by responsible owners. I grew up with a loaded .22 rifle tucked in the entryway closet and knew from age 5 not to touch it. I learned to shoot it when I was 9.
My mother and grandmother smuggled guns to the resistance fighters in Austria during WWII. That history makes me leery of banning “assault” rifles, especially with January 6 and the way the MAGA right is going. It does seem logical to me to strictly limit what kind of weapons may be purchased by persons under 21. Don’t tell me that I should tolerate/forgive/give second or umpteenth chances to violent offenders under 21 because their brains haven’t matured yet, and still sell them “assault” weapons and large capacity magazines.
We have grown a culture that focuses on self and wants instead of the common good. How do we turn it around?
"Don’t tell me that I should tolerate/forgive/give second or umpteenth chances to violent offenders under 21 because their brains haven’t matured yet, and still sell them “assault” weapons and large capacity magazines."
That makes sense to me, as does policies aimed at enforcing responsible uses of guns. I still wonder about the overall impact of making extraordinarily dangerous weapons widely available because they might be needed in a civil war.
As for our culture, I think we pursue self interests of necessity but emotional maturity needs to integrate our interests and rights with those of others, and society as a whole. The Constitution attempts to define certain rights and responsibilities. There are more. Liberty isn't liberty unless it's for all. The same for justice. I don't think our society talks enough about that.
Switzerland seems to have a model that would meet 2nd Amendment criteria. Its characteristics are intense training, close regulation, and civilian ownership of semi-automatic rifles. I say 'proven" based on the stats: incredibly low numbers of killings by both citizens and police. Neither party seems to want such a solution. I believe the extremist power-mongers find the problem too valuable as a tool to keep people divided, frightened, and fighting to actually want to solve the problem.
We seem to fail our constitution on the words "well-regulated." We don't respect any need for training or to restrict access based on intelligence/psychiatric limits. Red flag laws are common sense gun control. They remove, temporarily, the firearms from a person who has indicated that access poses a danger based on their own behavior. That is about as much "deprivation of rights" as taking away the car keys from an inebriated person so they don't pose a danger driving drunk..
Our own Democrat governor advocates red flag laws and enforcing them. I'm totally behind that.
Semi-automatic weapons with small capacity magazines are not "assault" weapons. The government itself sold semi-automatic M1 WW2 military rifles with an 8-round capacity to citizens under the Civilian Marksmanship Program. It was never classed as an "assault" weapon.
Apart from the 2nd Amendment, there seems to be little public discussion of what the body of the Constitution has to say about militias:
"To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;
To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;"
I agree that Switzerland could be a good model. I do believe that the rifles go home with the soldiers after they’ve completed their mandatory one year of military service. While I don’t think the US could pull off requiring a year of military service right now, I’d have no problem with requiring proof of mandatory safety, etc. training before purchasing a gun. I took NRA safety/personal protection training and my children took NRA Hunter Safety training in elementary school. (Back in the days of Eddie Eagle and responsible gun use/ownership being the focus of the NRA.)
My state also has a red flag law. It needs to be done properly with a court order and assurances that the weapons won’t disappear, that they will be returned to the owner in the same condition as when seized, upon satisfaction of due process that the crisis is over.
It’s a stopgap, but a necessary one right now. What we really need to work on is instilling a sense of personal responsibility in our children, starting with toddlers.
The last time i researched this, about four years back, the Swiss soldiers had a choice to keep their issued arms at home or in an armory if they didn't want it in the home. In the home, it had to be secured and inspections made certain securing it was done. At the end of service, the rifle, a true fully automatic assault rifle, could be returned to the state or retained. If the citizen chose to retain it, a gunsmith removed the fully automatic capacity to semi automatic (civilian) mode.
The Swiss have another clause in their constitution. They don't let their military out of the country. Their corporations cannot use their military to secure or procure resources in other nations. No Vietnams, Kuwaits, Iraqs, Afghanistans for them.
In an earlier issue, Heather accurately covered the history of the NRA's change from a firearms safety and marksmanship educational organization to becoming an irrational voting block of the Republican Party. She is one of the few people I've seen present that history honestly.
In undergraduate college I was on our varsity rifle team, so I, like you, lived through that period in which firearms ownership was treated by the general community as a responsibility and ownership, training and care were not yet stigmatized. Afterwards, both parties used firearms ownership in a sickening way to polarize neighbor against neighbor and deliberately created hate-on-command disciples to gain voting blocks. Through partisanship, we lost the community of responsibility, respect, educating, training, and caring.
For a while, in the mid 1960s, I earned a number of NRA sponsored awards at summer camp. I thought of them as a "firearms safety and marksmanship educational organization" at that point.
That is what the NRA was at the time. The 60s are the same time I was a competitive small bore member on my varsity college rifle team. Only much later was the NRA taken over and made into a political pawn. Another participant here, "Danielle NM," has been discussing living and experiencing that same transition.
I see the problem as the result of a culture that in the last 40 years has focused only on rights, and not on the responsibilities that go with them. We have had increasing vandalism, theft, other various more violent crimes, culminating in the first school mass shooting at Columbine in 1999.
We’ve had lots of guns throughout our history, the vast majority owned and used by responsible owners. I grew up with a loaded .22 rifle tucked in the entryway closet and knew from age 5 not to touch it. I learned to shoot it when I was 9.
My mother and grandmother smuggled guns to the resistance fighters in Austria during WWII. That history makes me leery of banning “assault” rifles, especially with January 6 and the way the MAGA right is going. It does seem logical to me to strictly limit what kind of weapons may be purchased by persons under 21. Don’t tell me that I should tolerate/forgive/give second or umpteenth chances to violent offenders under 21 because their brains haven’t matured yet, and still sell them “assault” weapons and large capacity magazines.
We have grown a culture that focuses on self and wants instead of the common good. How do we turn it around?
"Don’t tell me that I should tolerate/forgive/give second or umpteenth chances to violent offenders under 21 because their brains haven’t matured yet, and still sell them “assault” weapons and large capacity magazines."
That makes sense to me, as does policies aimed at enforcing responsible uses of guns. I still wonder about the overall impact of making extraordinarily dangerous weapons widely available because they might be needed in a civil war.
As for our culture, I think we pursue self interests of necessity but emotional maturity needs to integrate our interests and rights with those of others, and society as a whole. The Constitution attempts to define certain rights and responsibilities. There are more. Liberty isn't liberty unless it's for all. The same for justice. I don't think our society talks enough about that.
Switzerland seems to have a model that would meet 2nd Amendment criteria. Its characteristics are intense training, close regulation, and civilian ownership of semi-automatic rifles. I say 'proven" based on the stats: incredibly low numbers of killings by both citizens and police. Neither party seems to want such a solution. I believe the extremist power-mongers find the problem too valuable as a tool to keep people divided, frightened, and fighting to actually want to solve the problem.
We seem to fail our constitution on the words "well-regulated." We don't respect any need for training or to restrict access based on intelligence/psychiatric limits. Red flag laws are common sense gun control. They remove, temporarily, the firearms from a person who has indicated that access poses a danger based on their own behavior. That is about as much "deprivation of rights" as taking away the car keys from an inebriated person so they don't pose a danger driving drunk..
Our own Democrat governor advocates red flag laws and enforcing them. I'm totally behind that.
Semi-automatic weapons with small capacity magazines are not "assault" weapons. The government itself sold semi-automatic M1 WW2 military rifles with an 8-round capacity to citizens under the Civilian Marksmanship Program. It was never classed as an "assault" weapon.
Apart from the 2nd Amendment, there seems to be little public discussion of what the body of the Constitution has to say about militias:
"To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;
To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;"
Whaoa. Discipline? Governing? Blaspheme!!
Plus - the musket was what the Constitution was aware of - NOT the assault rifles with 30 round capacity!
The thought of what that weapon would do to a deer, squirrel, rabbit, turkey? We already know what it does to the bodies of children, dont we?
On that note, I'm shutting down for the night.
I agree that Switzerland could be a good model. I do believe that the rifles go home with the soldiers after they’ve completed their mandatory one year of military service. While I don’t think the US could pull off requiring a year of military service right now, I’d have no problem with requiring proof of mandatory safety, etc. training before purchasing a gun. I took NRA safety/personal protection training and my children took NRA Hunter Safety training in elementary school. (Back in the days of Eddie Eagle and responsible gun use/ownership being the focus of the NRA.)
My state also has a red flag law. It needs to be done properly with a court order and assurances that the weapons won’t disappear, that they will be returned to the owner in the same condition as when seized, upon satisfaction of due process that the crisis is over.
It’s a stopgap, but a necessary one right now. What we really need to work on is instilling a sense of personal responsibility in our children, starting with toddlers.
The last time i researched this, about four years back, the Swiss soldiers had a choice to keep their issued arms at home or in an armory if they didn't want it in the home. In the home, it had to be secured and inspections made certain securing it was done. At the end of service, the rifle, a true fully automatic assault rifle, could be returned to the state or retained. If the citizen chose to retain it, a gunsmith removed the fully automatic capacity to semi automatic (civilian) mode.
The Swiss have another clause in their constitution. They don't let their military out of the country. Their corporations cannot use their military to secure or procure resources in other nations. No Vietnams, Kuwaits, Iraqs, Afghanistans for them.
In an earlier issue, Heather accurately covered the history of the NRA's change from a firearms safety and marksmanship educational organization to becoming an irrational voting block of the Republican Party. She is one of the few people I've seen present that history honestly.
In undergraduate college I was on our varsity rifle team, so I, like you, lived through that period in which firearms ownership was treated by the general community as a responsibility and ownership, training and care were not yet stigmatized. Afterwards, both parties used firearms ownership in a sickening way to polarize neighbor against neighbor and deliberately created hate-on-command disciples to gain voting blocks. Through partisanship, we lost the community of responsibility, respect, educating, training, and caring.
For a while, in the mid 1960s, I earned a number of NRA sponsored awards at summer camp. I thought of them as a "firearms safety and marksmanship educational organization" at that point.
That is what the NRA was at the time. The 60s are the same time I was a competitive small bore member on my varsity college rifle team. Only much later was the NRA taken over and made into a political pawn. Another participant here, "Danielle NM," has been discussing living and experiencing that same transition.