Heather provides further evidence of the Trump-led conspiracy behind the BIG LIE and the 1/6 Capitol Hill insurrection. I am increasingly confident that the Department of Justice, based on the ‘smoking gun’ evidence being assembled by the Hous 1/6 committee and the diligent work of over 40 staffers and former federal prosecutors, will is…
Heather provides further evidence of the Trump-led conspiracy behind the BIG LIE and the 1/6 Capitol Hill insurrection. I am increasingly confident that the Department of Justice, based on the ‘smoking gun’ evidence being assembled by the Hous 1/6 committee and the diligent work of over 40 staffers and former federal prosecutors, will issue criminal indictments of some of the perpetrators by Spring, while the 1/6 committee public hearings are being conducted. One or more of the scum bags are likely to seek a John Dean-type deal to spill the beans to avoid or lessen a prison sentence.
While a criminal indictment of Jabba the Hutt seems politically unlikely, in Watergate, though Nixon was spared indictment, many of his sycophants squealed and/or went to the slammer. The House 1’6 committee should move swiftly, long before the November elections. I write as someone who was privileged to be on the Nixon White House Enemies List.
While indictment of Trump seems politically unlikely, I think it is needed so others understand that no one is above the law. I think between the Committee and the DOJ they probably have enough or close to enough to take him and his co-conspirators down. This wasn't just a burglary.
What we are witnessing is that the rule of law is selective, and being rich and powerful allows for the lawless to be their own prosecutor and jury. The Judges, the Gang of Six, have already demonstrated their partisan intent via loyalty to their benefactor. Pip hangs his head
Except, for most us "People of Integrity", the Nation will applaud 'the Court' for finding Numbnutz "not guilty" and wish him well as he departs for a private island with Ivanka, on Trump Won. So soon we forget the Kyle R. trial, huh?
No, the nation would not applaud if it came back not guilty and I don't think the majority applauded the Rittenhouse verdict. He skated by on the self defense law as written in Wisconsin.
So was my mother, a housewife in an Ohio village, who during WWII as a college student had gone on a lecture tour across the US as the Irish Catholic with a Japanese American, a Black and a Jewish woman, pleading for tolerance. I think about that when I wonder who among us is on the Trump Enemies List.
Could you or someone else please explain why “a criminal indictment of [the man who served as 45th President] seems politically unlikely”?
I am at a complete loss to understand what sounds like an admission of America's political incompetence owing to ingrained hypocrisy and lack of principle.
Is it not the protection of the country's political institutions that is at stake? Surely, the issue is one of preserving the office of Presidency and protecting it from criminal abuse, past, present and above all future? The President is the keystone of the rule of law. How can constitutional government survive if a man who gains the highest office in the land turns autocrat and flouts the law because he thinks he owns and controls it? Is not the President the highest servant of the Law?
Republic—res publica, the public thing—cannot be the bauble of a boss. That negates the very principle of the republic. If Americans really want to relinquish republican government and replace it with an Empire and an Emperor, let this be openly proclaimed and so be it.
But what we are now seeing is an attempt to gain such ends through the subversion and destruction of republican governance. May foreigners be forgiven for having believed that America’s institutions mean more than placing hand on heart and pronouncing a republican creed? Surely there’s more to it than mere mumbo-jumbo!
'Will Donald Trump Get Away With Inciting an Insurrection?'
Dec. 23, 2021, Essay in The New York Time (excerpts)
'By Laurence H. Tribe, Donald Ayer and Dennis Aftergut'
'Mr. Tribe taught constitutional law at Harvard for 50 years. Merrick Garland was one of his students. Mr. Ayer oversaw criminal prosecutions and investigations as Ronald Reagan’s U.S. attorney for the Eastern District of California. He later served as deputy attorney general. Mr. Aftergut handled a number of complex investigations and prosecutions as a federal prosecutor in San Francisco.'
'Mr. Trump himself sat back for three hours while his chief of staff was barraged with messages from members of Congress and Fox News hosts pleading with him to have the president call off the armed mob whose violent passion he had inflamed. That evidence, on its own, may not be enough to convict Mr. Trump, but it is certainly enough to require a criminal investigation.'
''And yet there are no signs, at least in media reports, that the attorney general is building a case against these individuals — no interviews with top administration officials, no reports of attempts to persuade the foot soldiers to turn on the people who incited them to violence. By this point in the Russia investigation, the special counsel Robert Mueller had indicted Paul Manafort and Rick Gates and secured the cooperation of George Papadopoulos after charging him with lying to the F.B.I. The media was reporting that the special counsel’s team had conducted or scheduled interviews with Mr. Trump’s aides Stephen Miller and Mr. Bannon, as well as Attorney General Jeff Sessions.'
'Of course, there is no way to know for sure whether Mr. Garland’s Department of Justice is investigating the leaders of the attack behind closed doors. Justice Department policy does not permit announcing investigations, absent exceptional circumstances. Mr. Garland, unlike his predecessor William Barr, plays by the book, keeping quiet about investigations until charges are filed. But the first of the rioters to plead guilty began cooperating with the Justice Department back in April. If prosecutors have been using their cooperation to investigate the top officials and operatives responsible for the siege of the Capitol and our democracy, there would likely be significant confirmation in the media by now.'
'It is possible that the department is deferring the decision about starting a full-blown investigative effort pending further work by the House select committee. It is even conceivable that the department is waiting for the committee’s final report so that federal prosecutors can review the documents, interviews and recommendations amassed by House investigators and can consider any potential referrals for criminal prosecution.'
'But such an approach would come at a very high cost. In the prosecution business, interviews need to happen as soon as possible after the events in question, to prevent both forgetfulness and witness coordination to conceal the truth. A comprehensive Department of Justice investigation of the leadership is now more urgently needed than ever.'(Essay, NY Times) See link below
In an Oct. 4, 2021 CNN Politics interview with Tierney Sneed, Merrick Garland stated: "We are doing everything we can to ensure that the perpetrators of January 6 are brought to justice," Garland said. "We will follow the facts and the law where they land." That is enough for me to relax a little knowing they are working on this but we cannot see all the threads of this tapestry from our view. I am willing to be a bit more patient. A lot is coming out that people had no idea of...and the coup is deep. The hearings will help the world understand much of what transpired. Nothing can be refuted or lied about like Bill Barr did after the Mueller investigation. Please take heart and everyone put out that justice will prevail. And gag the orange one on Jan 6th. He deserves absolutely NO PODIUM during the infamous day of his coup on our country... THAT to me is critical: keep the propagandist lips of the lead insurrectionist, who was the supposed head of our country last Jan. 6th, zipped. He deserves no rights to freedom of anything anymore.
With all due respect to the enormous intellect of Lawrence Tribe, he is one of the best examples of what Blackstone said, "the law sharpens the mind by narrowing it." When it comes to speaking in political terms, Professor Lawrence Tribe's opinion on politics is as meaningful as any comment here. "Practical politics" is a subject of which he has no knowledge. This is the problem with annointing people as "experts" or "geniuses." Yes, they may well be, in their field; but outside that they're just another drunk carrying on at the bar. This very good article completely ignores the fact that Donald Trump isn't Joe Schmoe.
TC, your reply to Peter perfectly captured the situation. I haven't ever harped on Garland because I realized that proper justice in this case appears to be in a locked box. It isn't impossible to have enough evidence, yet the kind of absolute certainty required may not exist. Tremendously high risk all around. His cult wants blood, and we're trapped.
It could be that the constant threats of civil war by the MAGATS makes the powers that be think twice, but think they must. Then DO something along the line of consequences. The clock is ticking…
I am also at a loss for why people continually say "seems politically unlikely." There is enough evidence, and, as Glenn Kirshner repeats, "Justice matters." These strange seeds of expecting nothing are so irritating after six years of insanity. If any of us normal Americans did what we have witnessed these anti-Americans do, who still remain in our government, we would already have been locked up.
Peter My heart fully agrees that Trump, like his fellow Mafioso, Al Capone, should be indicted and sent to the slammer. I would love to see this occur. It would be a prolonged effort to indict and then try Jabba the Hut with likely violence from his cultist gang. Just as I thought that President Nixon should be indicted for his despicable, criminal actions, Trump should be indicted, tried, and convicted. Love to seer it happen.
It comes down to the ancient rule, "If you strike the king, you must kill him." If they bring a case against him, it has to be absolutely air tight. Can you imagine the power he would have if he were indicted and tried, and got off? There is the additional problem that, as soon as he announces he's running again, a prosecution will be seen as "purely political because they're afraid of him" which would cede even more power to him. Basically, it's "Catch-22"
As a German judge once reminded me, one who had to flee his country because he was Jewish, the case against Hitler was airtight after the 1923 Munich putsch, but he got away with it.
Such is the material power of the United States that it must under no circumstances be allowed ever again to fall into such hands. People may find this hard to get their minds around but that would be far more dangerous than the Third Reich. You don't need such an embodiment of evil as the Fuehrer to destroy the world, any fool or narcissistic pervert will do.
Sorry, I detest wasting my time and that of others and fear that I may be doing just that with my contributions to this thread. Hence a strong desire to cut this line of communication because, unlike too many persons whose names are best not mentioned, I am not into entertainment. Leave that to your damned Pied Piper.
It is never safe to play with fire but America is doing just that -- hence our shared anxiety.
Let us think of the young and of the world's children and be guided by that. And let us leave off being guided by ridiculous ideas about what is and is not possible, both in a positive and in a negative sense. We have seen and are seeing too much of the worst that is possible, why add to that with deadening prejudices about the supposed impossibility of the best?
The one thing we can all do is to hold out for the best we are able to imagine, come what may. An attitude that will have effects, however long and hard the intervening winter.
But... while your sincerity is touching, why go to that trouble?
Methinks we take ourselves too seriously. True, the matters we are discussing are important, but I -- thank goodness -- do not have that problem. So I intend only to delete ill manners on my part, after making due apologies. If I get something wrong or say something silly, I'd rather leave the evidence in place. My foolishness does trouble me, but I can't be bothered with minor instances of it. I'd rather be seen as I am, "warts and all" as Oliver Cromwell said to the man painting his portrait...
And I have tried not to take offense too easily, even when accused of being some kind of troll or plant of the Russian regime... heaven help us... People have cause to worry and that can cause us to "misspeak" (to use George W's word)... or even to go off at a tangent.
I'm grateful to Keith Wheelock and to anyone else who can make me laugh... even when the National Punch and Judy Show is far from funny.
Americans will have noticed that I can't even be bothered to comment on my country's own King-Lear-as-Punch-and-Judy. It is beneath contempt. Shakespeare's Fools were wise. Our fools are fools.
Sounds as though you're speaking of Charles I who ended up on the scaffold because he considered that he owed allegiance -- and his word -- only to God, and not to his subjects.
It doesn't seem appropriate to compare men who follow the dictates of their conscience, however misleading those dictates may be, with beings totally devoid of any conscience or of a duty to anyone or anything but their inflated ego.
Peter Richard III shouted “My kingdom for a horse” (before being killed). Modern day I would delight in having Trump, as his troubles mount, shout “My kingdom for a hearse.”
It would have helped if you'd referred to James I of Scotland -- not James VI of Scotland and I of England... Beyond that, I don't follow the obscure reference to a capable ruler murdered by aristocratic traitors who soon met their deserts.
This is precisely why we are at a Continental Divide. Will we flow in the direction of the Democracy those of us following Dr Richardson want? Or will our country fall the other way, to become an autocracy or oligarchy or banana republic? If too many elected officials are following Trump like lemmings, and we can’t change the filibuster, and the DOJ cannot indict Trump fast enough, we could end up on the River to Hades.
At one time, I would have argued the those who control corporate America And the stock market would never allow the country to devolve into a banana republic.
However, with the control of our economy and government in the hands of radical libertarian billionaires, I suspect they would welcome a benevolent despot’ who siphons billions off the top, but allows them to pursue their greed!
Beware, those who betray the ‘despot’ will have their businesses ‘nationalized’!
Welp.. quite simply. Numbnuts was Cmdr In Chief, to 50+ milllion (mowrons). He will terstify thusly: "(Under God) I was 'sitting peacefully' in a room amongst my closest 'friends', and as I recall, I was in deep thought with great concern for our Nation.., a Nation where a election was stolen (from me) and people were justifiably upset". DONE! If, sweetness Ivanka, was sitting on his lap, or in an armchair, it will have no bearing on things. Numbnutz will be found NOT-guilty of the most serious charge, ie dereliction, and will be acquitted of all other un-conclusive issues. He will then depart via Trump Won to an island where he and Ivanka will be assured of an ever-lasting privacy, to be enjoyed by his private (paid by US) Security Detail. Boy would I like to be on that Op...whew :))
I was also on J. Edgar Fruitfly's COINTELPRO list. Where they went after my father, a government scientist, and my father-in-law, a retired Marine working at a bank, with public visits to them at work about their offspring's "problems."
They weren't happy about it, since they didn't agree with us, but they didn't like people coming around like that to deliberately make their lives difficult. It actually turned my father off being an FBI fan. He then retired on 30 years service rather than at 65 and later (when things were "worked out") told me he was glad he did so.
TC It wasn’t difficult to get on cross dresser J. Edgar’s dance card. I had a Top Secret Code Word security clearance at the State Department when I took and passed the Foreign Service Exam. I got a call from State Department Security (obviously housed in the basement). I said “You don’t have high enough security clearance to come to my office, so I’ll come down.” This gum shoe was hung up on the fact that I had met Communists while researching NASSER’S NEW EGYPT: A CRITICAL ANALYSIS.
He didn’t take kindly to my suggestion that it seemed helpful to know our ‘enemy.’ He was a NYET numb skull, until a miracle. He was taking a class on Soviet skullduggery with Professor Stefan Possany, who was a board member of the Foreign Policy Research Institute, for whom I had written my book. Once I shared insider info on Stefan’s mistress, I got my security clearance. (Tom Lehrer could have sung a lovely limerick about this.)
SL I was surprised that you wonder ‘how many transvestites might be hurt or disgusted or disappointed by [my] thoughtless comments.’ As a professional historian I was simply referring to an apparent dichotomy in J. Edgar Hoover’s personal history. At a time when he was applying the FBI’s massive power against people who were gay, the media was investigating what his relationship was with the man who was constantly in his life. Some reports mentioned that, in private, Hoover was a cross dresser. This is historical reporting on the 1950s. I don’t consider it offensive, nor does it reflect my personal beliefs.
Ohhh boy..., here we go. We live in a world amongst some thin-skinned hipocrits. Deal with it. I'm with you Keith. And, if I may. We live in a world where there are those who are retarded, gifted, have personality "issues", some are enjoyable to be around..., some, not so much. My use of terms like "mowrons" and "Numbnuts" are simply my choice of words I use as my personal 'terms -of-endearment'. Similarly, my reference to "Trump Won" refers to the Boeing 757 Numbnuts flew in on. But, should he walk away scot-free, it may be construed to mean otherwise. Liz Won, would suit me!
Jeri Some of the State Department’s finest Asian experts were drummed out of the Foreign Service with such ‘Security’ bull shit. Ditto with the Black List and the hearings before the House Un-American Activities Committee. Without my ‘Stefan link,’ I most probably have been black balled from the Foreign Service.
I often think we are our own worst enemies, seems like cult insanity cycles around every generation or so. I saw the other day that German schools teach the worst of their history in schools. How different things could be if we faced and acknowledged our historic sins.
It was a moment when he was considering a project I was part of and the meeting wasn't "jelling." I suddenly remembered him being on the list and brought it up in the conversation, identifying myself as also on the list (much further down) and the result was a "connection" and the meeting improved. Desperation breeds creativity.
my father wrote as-told-to biographies of several movie folk in the '50s --Barrymore, Sennett, Astaire -- so as Democrats living in lily-white, ultra-Republican Glendale, we were considered and called communists. He taught my sister and me to ignore this and keep a sense of humor. Easier then than it would be now.
Amen. They must move quickly or we will end up with lawyers vs. lawyers vs. lawyers vs. lawyers, and on. That will cost precious time in resolving this before the mid-terms.
BTW, congrats for being "on the Nixon White House Enemies List." Well done.
ScannyDo The names on the Nixon White House Enemies List dribbled out, with focus on the famous enchiladas. I saw my name in a New England newspaper, which listed me as Keith Wheelock, Lincoln, MA. I was completing my MIT Sloan Fellowship at that time (before I worked with Gary Hart on the McGovern campaign). I surmise that I got on the list because Benjamin Welles of the NYT wrote an article based on my MIT thesis. As a recent Foreign Service Officer I had managed to get Overseas Private Investment Corporation’s (OPIC) internal documents that were not available to the general public.
I highlighted that a majority of this investment insurance was provided to American extractive companies (oil, minerals). The stunner was my statement that Anaconda had been reimbursed despite not having paid its insurance premium in the year that Chile had nationalized the American copper companies. I was at our embassy just after the nationalization announcement when a stunned Anaconda Vice President came to our office. He blurted out ‘Anaconda corporate had decided not to pay the insurance premium this year.’ Either this was the truth or he deserved an Academy Award for acting. OPIC subsequently agreed to compensate Anaconda, despite its lapsed insurance. The Nixon administration claimed that my reporting was false. The NYT asked me if I would stand behind my facts. I did. This issue subsequently was played out in the Columbia Journal of World Affairs, where OPIC’S president called me a liar. I guess that this is the background for me being on the Nixon White House Enemies List.
I am also increasingly confident in the DOJ, and especially in AG Merrick Garland who has been targeted (hmm, Russian style) for "not reassuring" the American people that his department is investigating and indicting the bad guys. 750 insurrectionists have been investigated, 165 have pled guilty. The U.S. House is investigating the big bad guys, which the DOJ will follow up with indictments. And possibly more important, the House Committee is influencing the court of public opinion (which hopefully will include my Republican congressperson), convincing them that t-Rump's ship is sinking and it is time to jump off.
MaryPat,I read that those who were given house arrest went before their Judges in Nov.to ask permission to travel to see ‘family ‘ and all were granted permission. I know with 100% surety that would NOT happen in a State court. These were out of state visits ?
Wow, what an honor. You may be on the list being compiled by Ginni Thomas for chump resistors in the government or not. As I heard, don’t remember where, one goal was to be able to pick off civil service people who expressed opposition to chump. Chump was well on his way to do just that. Breaking the union was step one.
Keith, C'mon, criminal indictment, it can be done. You call him Jabba, I call him 'The Loser', and he's left enough detritus around to poison the Trump Party.
Mary Pat I was delighted to be a sardine swimming along the marlin and swordfish on the Nixon White House Enemies List. Initially, it seemed more a list of extinction than distinction. How the worm turned!
They were actually able to do things that hurt. IRS audits, lose your paperwork when you apply for a GI Bill home loan (that happened to me). They could make the gears of life get very "sticky."
Scary! Were you on Nixon’s Enemies List as well? I still think you have Intelligence work in your past! Have you ever seen Enemy of the State with Gene Hackman and Will Smith?
I see further down that you WERE on that list, among others. 😊. I have often wondered if I would be brave if ever called to be. I still don’t feel I’ve ever really had to be. You have! Along with Keith Wheelock and Mary Blaine Campbell’s mom. Thank you.
Heather provides further evidence of the Trump-led conspiracy behind the BIG LIE and the 1/6 Capitol Hill insurrection. I am increasingly confident that the Department of Justice, based on the ‘smoking gun’ evidence being assembled by the Hous 1/6 committee and the diligent work of over 40 staffers and former federal prosecutors, will issue criminal indictments of some of the perpetrators by Spring, while the 1/6 committee public hearings are being conducted. One or more of the scum bags are likely to seek a John Dean-type deal to spill the beans to avoid or lessen a prison sentence.
While a criminal indictment of Jabba the Hutt seems politically unlikely, in Watergate, though Nixon was spared indictment, many of his sycophants squealed and/or went to the slammer. The House 1’6 committee should move swiftly, long before the November elections. I write as someone who was privileged to be on the Nixon White House Enemies List.
While indictment of Trump seems politically unlikely, I think it is needed so others understand that no one is above the law. I think between the Committee and the DOJ they probably have enough or close to enough to take him and his co-conspirators down. This wasn't just a burglary.
If trump is not indicted for his many criminal actions against the country, there is no rule of law.
What we are witnessing is that the rule of law is selective, and being rich and powerful allows for the lawless to be their own prosecutor and jury. The Judges, the Gang of Six, have already demonstrated their partisan intent via loyalty to their benefactor. Pip hangs his head
Agreed.
Except, for most us "People of Integrity", the Nation will applaud 'the Court' for finding Numbnutz "not guilty" and wish him well as he departs for a private island with Ivanka, on Trump Won. So soon we forget the Kyle R. trial, huh?
No, the nation would not applaud if it came back not guilty and I don't think the majority applauded the Rittenhouse verdict. He skated by on the self defense law as written in Wisconsin.
So was my mother, a housewife in an Ohio village, who during WWII as a college student had gone on a lecture tour across the US as the Irish Catholic with a Japanese American, a Black and a Jewish woman, pleading for tolerance. I think about that when I wonder who among us is on the Trump Enemies List.
Was she really? How did you find out? How courageous and wonderful of her and her fellow Humanitarian Activists!
Could you or someone else please explain why “a criminal indictment of [the man who served as 45th President] seems politically unlikely”?
I am at a complete loss to understand what sounds like an admission of America's political incompetence owing to ingrained hypocrisy and lack of principle.
Is it not the protection of the country's political institutions that is at stake? Surely, the issue is one of preserving the office of Presidency and protecting it from criminal abuse, past, present and above all future? The President is the keystone of the rule of law. How can constitutional government survive if a man who gains the highest office in the land turns autocrat and flouts the law because he thinks he owns and controls it? Is not the President the highest servant of the Law?
Republic—res publica, the public thing—cannot be the bauble of a boss. That negates the very principle of the republic. If Americans really want to relinquish republican government and replace it with an Empire and an Emperor, let this be openly proclaimed and so be it.
But what we are now seeing is an attempt to gain such ends through the subversion and destruction of republican governance. May foreigners be forgiven for having believed that America’s institutions mean more than placing hand on heart and pronouncing a republican creed? Surely there’s more to it than mere mumbo-jumbo!
'Will Donald Trump Get Away With Inciting an Insurrection?'
Dec. 23, 2021, Essay in The New York Time (excerpts)
'By Laurence H. Tribe, Donald Ayer and Dennis Aftergut'
'Mr. Tribe taught constitutional law at Harvard for 50 years. Merrick Garland was one of his students. Mr. Ayer oversaw criminal prosecutions and investigations as Ronald Reagan’s U.S. attorney for the Eastern District of California. He later served as deputy attorney general. Mr. Aftergut handled a number of complex investigations and prosecutions as a federal prosecutor in San Francisco.'
'Mr. Trump himself sat back for three hours while his chief of staff was barraged with messages from members of Congress and Fox News hosts pleading with him to have the president call off the armed mob whose violent passion he had inflamed. That evidence, on its own, may not be enough to convict Mr. Trump, but it is certainly enough to require a criminal investigation.'
''And yet there are no signs, at least in media reports, that the attorney general is building a case against these individuals — no interviews with top administration officials, no reports of attempts to persuade the foot soldiers to turn on the people who incited them to violence. By this point in the Russia investigation, the special counsel Robert Mueller had indicted Paul Manafort and Rick Gates and secured the cooperation of George Papadopoulos after charging him with lying to the F.B.I. The media was reporting that the special counsel’s team had conducted or scheduled interviews with Mr. Trump’s aides Stephen Miller and Mr. Bannon, as well as Attorney General Jeff Sessions.'
'Of course, there is no way to know for sure whether Mr. Garland’s Department of Justice is investigating the leaders of the attack behind closed doors. Justice Department policy does not permit announcing investigations, absent exceptional circumstances. Mr. Garland, unlike his predecessor William Barr, plays by the book, keeping quiet about investigations until charges are filed. But the first of the rioters to plead guilty began cooperating with the Justice Department back in April. If prosecutors have been using their cooperation to investigate the top officials and operatives responsible for the siege of the Capitol and our democracy, there would likely be significant confirmation in the media by now.'
'It is possible that the department is deferring the decision about starting a full-blown investigative effort pending further work by the House select committee. It is even conceivable that the department is waiting for the committee’s final report so that federal prosecutors can review the documents, interviews and recommendations amassed by House investigators and can consider any potential referrals for criminal prosecution.'
'But such an approach would come at a very high cost. In the prosecution business, interviews need to happen as soon as possible after the events in question, to prevent both forgetfulness and witness coordination to conceal the truth. A comprehensive Department of Justice investigation of the leadership is now more urgently needed than ever.'(Essay, NY Times) See link below
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/23/opinion/trump-capitol-riot-january-6th.html
In an Oct. 4, 2021 CNN Politics interview with Tierney Sneed, Merrick Garland stated: "We are doing everything we can to ensure that the perpetrators of January 6 are brought to justice," Garland said. "We will follow the facts and the law where they land." That is enough for me to relax a little knowing they are working on this but we cannot see all the threads of this tapestry from our view. I am willing to be a bit more patient. A lot is coming out that people had no idea of...and the coup is deep. The hearings will help the world understand much of what transpired. Nothing can be refuted or lied about like Bill Barr did after the Mueller investigation. Please take heart and everyone put out that justice will prevail. And gag the orange one on Jan 6th. He deserves absolutely NO PODIUM during the infamous day of his coup on our country... THAT to me is critical: keep the propagandist lips of the lead insurrectionist, who was the supposed head of our country last Jan. 6th, zipped. He deserves no rights to freedom of anything anymore.
With all due respect to the enormous intellect of Lawrence Tribe, he is one of the best examples of what Blackstone said, "the law sharpens the mind by narrowing it." When it comes to speaking in political terms, Professor Lawrence Tribe's opinion on politics is as meaningful as any comment here. "Practical politics" is a subject of which he has no knowledge. This is the problem with annointing people as "experts" or "geniuses." Yes, they may well be, in their field; but outside that they're just another drunk carrying on at the bar. This very good article completely ignores the fact that Donald Trump isn't Joe Schmoe.
TC, your reply to Peter perfectly captured the situation. I haven't ever harped on Garland because I realized that proper justice in this case appears to be in a locked box. It isn't impossible to have enough evidence, yet the kind of absolute certainty required may not exist. Tremendously high risk all around. His cult wants blood, and we're trapped.
Exactly right.
It could be that the constant threats of civil war by the MAGATS makes the powers that be think twice, but think they must. Then DO something along the line of consequences. The clock is ticking…
I am also at a loss for why people continually say "seems politically unlikely." There is enough evidence, and, as Glenn Kirshner repeats, "Justice matters." These strange seeds of expecting nothing are so irritating after six years of insanity. If any of us normal Americans did what we have witnessed these anti-Americans do, who still remain in our government, we would already have been locked up.
Peter My heart fully agrees that Trump, like his fellow Mafioso, Al Capone, should be indicted and sent to the slammer. I would love to see this occur. It would be a prolonged effort to indict and then try Jabba the Hut with likely violence from his cultist gang. Just as I thought that President Nixon should be indicted for his despicable, criminal actions, Trump should be indicted, tried, and convicted. Love to seer it happen.
It comes down to the ancient rule, "If you strike the king, you must kill him." If they bring a case against him, it has to be absolutely air tight. Can you imagine the power he would have if he were indicted and tried, and got off? There is the additional problem that, as soon as he announces he's running again, a prosecution will be seen as "purely political because they're afraid of him" which would cede even more power to him. Basically, it's "Catch-22"
As a German judge once reminded me, one who had to flee his country because he was Jewish, the case against Hitler was airtight after the 1923 Munich putsch, but he got away with it.
Such is the material power of the United States that it must under no circumstances be allowed ever again to fall into such hands. People may find this hard to get their minds around but that would be far more dangerous than the Third Reich. You don't need such an embodiment of evil as the Fuehrer to destroy the world, any fool or narcissistic pervert will do.
That is the bomb Americans must defuse.
Exactly right.
Sorry, I detest wasting my time and that of others and fear that I may be doing just that with my contributions to this thread. Hence a strong desire to cut this line of communication because, unlike too many persons whose names are best not mentioned, I am not into entertainment. Leave that to your damned Pied Piper.
It is never safe to play with fire but America is doing just that -- hence our shared anxiety.
Let us think of the young and of the world's children and be guided by that. And let us leave off being guided by ridiculous ideas about what is and is not possible, both in a positive and in a negative sense. We have seen and are seeing too much of the worst that is possible, why add to that with deadening prejudices about the supposed impossibility of the best?
The one thing we can all do is to hold out for the best we are able to imagine, come what may. An attitude that will have effects, however long and hard the intervening winter.
But... while your sincerity is touching, why go to that trouble?
Methinks we take ourselves too seriously. True, the matters we are discussing are important, but I -- thank goodness -- do not have that problem. So I intend only to delete ill manners on my part, after making due apologies. If I get something wrong or say something silly, I'd rather leave the evidence in place. My foolishness does trouble me, but I can't be bothered with minor instances of it. I'd rather be seen as I am, "warts and all" as Oliver Cromwell said to the man painting his portrait...
And I have tried not to take offense too easily, even when accused of being some kind of troll or plant of the Russian regime... heaven help us... People have cause to worry and that can cause us to "misspeak" (to use George W's word)... or even to go off at a tangent.
I'm grateful to Keith Wheelock and to anyone else who can make me laugh... even when the National Punch and Judy Show is far from funny.
Americans will have noticed that I can't even be bothered to comment on my country's own King-Lear-as-Punch-and-Judy. It is beneath contempt. Shakespeare's Fools were wise. Our fools are fools.
Sounds as though you're speaking of Charles I who ended up on the scaffold because he considered that he owed allegiance -- and his word -- only to God, and not to his subjects.
It doesn't seem appropriate to compare men who follow the dictates of their conscience, however misleading those dictates may be, with beings totally devoid of any conscience or of a duty to anyone or anything but their inflated ego.
Peter Richard III shouted “My kingdom for a horse” (before being killed). Modern day I would delight in having Trump, as his troubles mount, shout “My kingdom for a hearse.”
I'd love it if he ended up buried under a parking lot, as they discovered a few years ago had happened to Richard III.
Still looking for Jimmy Hoffa—perhaps Jabba the Hutt should be buried next to him.
Unfortunately, the result is the same.
It would have helped if you'd referred to James I of Scotland -- not James VI of Scotland and I of England... Beyond that, I don't follow the obscure reference to a capable ruler murdered by aristocratic traitors who soon met their deserts.
I don't think we want to go where dealing with the Stuarts sent the English.
This is precisely why we are at a Continental Divide. Will we flow in the direction of the Democracy those of us following Dr Richardson want? Or will our country fall the other way, to become an autocracy or oligarchy or banana republic? If too many elected officials are following Trump like lemmings, and we can’t change the filibuster, and the DOJ cannot indict Trump fast enough, we could end up on the River to Hades.
And I might try to emigrate to Canada.
Greece is not bad. They have gone through all this stuff already and sorted it out.
A banana republic?
Interesting non-system of governing!
At one time, I would have argued the those who control corporate America And the stock market would never allow the country to devolve into a banana republic.
However, with the control of our economy and government in the hands of radical libertarian billionaires, I suspect they would welcome a benevolent despot’ who siphons billions off the top, but allows them to pursue their greed!
Beware, those who betray the ‘despot’ will have their businesses ‘nationalized’!
Hey! Wait for me!!!
Tragically, those in dopey don’s cult perceive us as destroying democracy, we stole their election!!! The big lie metastasizes!
Rupert needs a truth serum. Maybe TC can pull that off
Welp.. quite simply. Numbnuts was Cmdr In Chief, to 50+ milllion (mowrons). He will terstify thusly: "(Under God) I was 'sitting peacefully' in a room amongst my closest 'friends', and as I recall, I was in deep thought with great concern for our Nation.., a Nation where a election was stolen (from me) and people were justifiably upset". DONE! If, sweetness Ivanka, was sitting on his lap, or in an armchair, it will have no bearing on things. Numbnutz will be found NOT-guilty of the most serious charge, ie dereliction, and will be acquitted of all other un-conclusive issues. He will then depart via Trump Won to an island where he and Ivanka will be assured of an ever-lasting privacy, to be enjoyed by his private (paid by US) Security Detail. Boy would I like to be on that Op...whew :))
Hey, so was I! A mark of honor if anything ever was.
I once had the privilege of comparing notes on that with Paul Newman, a better-known list member.
I knew I loved you for a reason...
I was also on J. Edgar Fruitfly's COINTELPRO list. Where they went after my father, a government scientist, and my father-in-law, a retired Marine working at a bank, with public visits to them at work about their offspring's "problems."
What a lineage to which you live up !
Yeah, my own. :-)
I am curious how your father and father-in-law handled that? And if they were with you! You don’t have to share all that but ..wow.
They weren't happy about it, since they didn't agree with us, but they didn't like people coming around like that to deliberately make their lives difficult. It actually turned my father off being an FBI fan. He then retired on 30 years service rather than at 65 and later (when things were "worked out") told me he was glad he did so.
Oh Lordy, old J Edgar is mostly forgotten these days with so many MAGAt worms among us.
MAGAts, how did I miss that?
I stole that saying from a friend of mine some time ago. It fits.
“J. Edgar Fruitfly.” 😂🤣🤣🤣
TC It wasn’t difficult to get on cross dresser J. Edgar’s dance card. I had a Top Secret Code Word security clearance at the State Department when I took and passed the Foreign Service Exam. I got a call from State Department Security (obviously housed in the basement). I said “You don’t have high enough security clearance to come to my office, so I’ll come down.” This gum shoe was hung up on the fact that I had met Communists while researching NASSER’S NEW EGYPT: A CRITICAL ANALYSIS.
He didn’t take kindly to my suggestion that it seemed helpful to know our ‘enemy.’ He was a NYET numb skull, until a miracle. He was taking a class on Soviet skullduggery with Professor Stefan Possany, who was a board member of the Foreign Policy Research Institute, for whom I had written my book. Once I shared insider info on Stefan’s mistress, I got my security clearance. (Tom Lehrer could have sung a lovely limerick about this.)
I wonder how many transvestites we have among LFAA commenters. And how many might be hurt or disgusted or disappointed by thoughtless comments.
SL I was surprised that you wonder ‘how many transvestites might be hurt or disgusted or disappointed by [my] thoughtless comments.’ As a professional historian I was simply referring to an apparent dichotomy in J. Edgar Hoover’s personal history. At a time when he was applying the FBI’s massive power against people who were gay, the media was investigating what his relationship was with the man who was constantly in his life. Some reports mentioned that, in private, Hoover was a cross dresser. This is historical reporting on the 1950s. I don’t consider it offensive, nor does it reflect my personal beliefs.
Ohhh boy..., here we go. We live in a world amongst some thin-skinned hipocrits. Deal with it. I'm with you Keith. And, if I may. We live in a world where there are those who are retarded, gifted, have personality "issues", some are enjoyable to be around..., some, not so much. My use of terms like "mowrons" and "Numbnuts" are simply my choice of words I use as my personal 'terms -of-endearment'. Similarly, my reference to "Trump Won" refers to the Boeing 757 Numbnuts flew in on. But, should he walk away scot-free, it may be construed to mean otherwise. Liz Won, would suit me!
Incredible, to put it mildly
Jeri Some of the State Department’s finest Asian experts were drummed out of the Foreign Service with such ‘Security’ bull shit. Ditto with the Black List and the hearings before the House Un-American Activities Committee. Without my ‘Stefan link,’ I most probably have been black balled from the Foreign Service.
I often think we are our own worst enemies, seems like cult insanity cycles around every generation or so. I saw the other day that German schools teach the worst of their history in schools. How different things could be if we faced and acknowledged our historic sins.
Epithets can be spot-on and hilarious, but we must be very careful of collateral damage.
Sizzlin’ as usual, TC.
I love comparing notes with well known people who are, after all, just like me.
Bragging AGAIN!! Get it all out TCinLA!
It was a moment when he was considering a project I was part of and the meeting wasn't "jelling." I suddenly remembered him being on the list and brought it up in the conversation, identifying myself as also on the list (much further down) and the result was a "connection" and the meeting improved. Desperation breeds creativity.
You've even won my heart, temporarily.
I'll take that as my major accomplishment, Fern who never lets anything get past her. :-)
We need to talk about Tom Paine this week.
Yeah. Once I get out from underneath having to cut 25,000 words from a project while making it smarter as a result.
Sorry, this can't wait.
Yeah, later this week. When you're busy subtracting, adding has trouble.
No higher math from you? Ok, let's call it a night.
We're in the multiplication business, remember?
my father wrote as-told-to biographies of several movie folk in the '50s --Barrymore, Sennett, Astaire -- so as Democrats living in lily-white, ultra-Republican Glendale, we were considered and called communists. He taught my sister and me to ignore this and keep a sense of humor. Easier then than it would be now.
Congrats on your shared ignomity!!
"The House 1’6 committee should move swiftly..."
Amen. They must move quickly or we will end up with lawyers vs. lawyers vs. lawyers vs. lawyers, and on. That will cost precious time in resolving this before the mid-terms.
BTW, congrats for being "on the Nixon White House Enemies List." Well done.
I’m so curious how those of you on that esteemed list found out? Thank you for your service to America through getting into Good Trouble.
ScannyDo The names on the Nixon White House Enemies List dribbled out, with focus on the famous enchiladas. I saw my name in a New England newspaper, which listed me as Keith Wheelock, Lincoln, MA. I was completing my MIT Sloan Fellowship at that time (before I worked with Gary Hart on the McGovern campaign). I surmise that I got on the list because Benjamin Welles of the NYT wrote an article based on my MIT thesis. As a recent Foreign Service Officer I had managed to get Overseas Private Investment Corporation’s (OPIC) internal documents that were not available to the general public.
I highlighted that a majority of this investment insurance was provided to American extractive companies (oil, minerals). The stunner was my statement that Anaconda had been reimbursed despite not having paid its insurance premium in the year that Chile had nationalized the American copper companies. I was at our embassy just after the nationalization announcement when a stunned Anaconda Vice President came to our office. He blurted out ‘Anaconda corporate had decided not to pay the insurance premium this year.’ Either this was the truth or he deserved an Academy Award for acting. OPIC subsequently agreed to compensate Anaconda, despite its lapsed insurance. The Nixon administration claimed that my reporting was false. The NYT asked me if I would stand behind my facts. I did. This issue subsequently was played out in the Columbia Journal of World Affairs, where OPIC’S president called me a liar. I guess that this is the background for me being on the Nixon White House Enemies List.
I am also increasingly confident in the DOJ, and especially in AG Merrick Garland who has been targeted (hmm, Russian style) for "not reassuring" the American people that his department is investigating and indicting the bad guys. 750 insurrectionists have been investigated, 165 have pled guilty. The U.S. House is investigating the big bad guys, which the DOJ will follow up with indictments. And possibly more important, the House Committee is influencing the court of public opinion (which hopefully will include my Republican congressperson), convincing them that t-Rump's ship is sinking and it is time to jump off.
N0 hope of that in TX, magats at ALL levels
😔
MaryPat,I read that those who were given house arrest went before their Judges in Nov.to ask permission to travel to see ‘family ‘ and all were granted permission. I know with 100% surety that would NOT happen in a State court. These were out of state visits ?
Wow, what an honor. You may be on the list being compiled by Ginni Thomas for chump resistors in the government or not. As I heard, don’t remember where, one goal was to be able to pick off civil service people who expressed opposition to chump. Chump was well on his way to do just that. Breaking the union was step one.
Keith, C'mon, criminal indictment, it can be done. You call him Jabba, I call him 'The Loser', and he's left enough detritus around to poison the Trump Party.
BIGGEST LOSER
I am in awe, Keith! Only the BEST people made Nixon's Enemies List!
Mary Pat I was delighted to be a sardine swimming along the marlin and swordfish on the Nixon White House Enemies List. Initially, it seemed more a list of extinction than distinction. How the worm turned!
Way more on chump's list, even his "allies."
Keith, I agree. Somewhere in that sack of sick puppies, one will cave bigly. Then it will be a scramble to CYA before the US Marshalls arrive.
my dream, to see the BIGGEST LOSER go down
That’s the big difference between Nixon and TFG. No one was on Nixons friend list and No one feared him.
They were actually able to do things that hurt. IRS audits, lose your paperwork when you apply for a GI Bill home loan (that happened to me). They could make the gears of life get very "sticky."
Scary! Were you on Nixon’s Enemies List as well? I still think you have Intelligence work in your past! Have you ever seen Enemy of the State with Gene Hackman and Will Smith?
I see further down that you WERE on that list, among others. 😊. I have often wondered if I would be brave if ever called to be. I still don’t feel I’ve ever really had to be. You have! Along with Keith Wheelock and Mary Blaine Campbell’s mom. Thank you.