566 Comments

Excuse my feeble attempt attempt at humor: "My Pillow Guy attempted to smother the Constitution. today."

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Not feeble...fantastic! Thanks for the pun-intended laugh, Michael!

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Lynell that is a dad joke

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Dad jokes matter!

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🤣

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HA!👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

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That’s funny!

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🤣😂

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Thanks for that giggle! 🤣😂🤣😂

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Something about the stories following the January 6 attack on the Capitol bothers me, and I ask your opinion if you feel this is just my overactive imagination playing tricks on me and bias.

A very big part of Donald Trump’s supporters have been staunch Christians who strongly push for stopping abortion and for making other changes which will ultimately have the effect of herding women in back into a narrow place in society.

They pushed so hard that they got a large enough number of supporters in government who have gotten their ideologues into the Supreme Court. They also have a number of fringe groups who have attacked abortionists, abortion clinics, and threatened those who fund them.

With this in mind, why haven’t they been specifically listed as a presence amongst the other Capitol-attacking groups? Did I miss something because haven’t seen a single story about involvement of Christian extremist groups.

Here is where my bias is likely going to offend people, and I apologize in advance.

I have long suspected that a significant number of people who practice a religion might be more susceptible to getting caught up in a cult. I feel it is because of the way religions are practiced, that the marriage of dogma, social acceptance (or rejection as punishment), of flattening complex problems (like abortion) into a simply a black or white situation, and so forth, just lends itself towards a type of mind control. When practiced with tolerance and moderation in mind, it is probably very helpful in keeping people working together for the good of society, but when intolerance and extremism is in mind....

Well, I just feel it could be at the heart of this big problem we have in America. This is why I think it is worrisome that it’s not being specifically called out in regards to the attack.

**Disclosure: I was raised with Judeo-Christian ethics and believe in G*d as Creator of the universe, but perhaps not as a being who watches over people. I was also not raised with religion (both sets of grandparents fought over which branch of Christianity their first grandchild should be raised, so parents finally decided their children would choose when they were old enough.). So my viewpoints of religion come as an outside observer.

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This may not be politically correct, but as a scholar, I must note: "Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people" K. Marx

And a further note to a previous comment. "Christianity" in practice is centered on white, male domination, dominion over the Earth, and oppression of 'the other'. IMHO of course.

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So are the other major religions. Women are just servants. I recall my parochial school days when the "mysteries of transubstantiation" were taught. If you didn't get it then you weren't smart enough. Religion is definitely a cult. It destroys critical thinking.

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Along with patriotism and law enforcement, all religions must also be de-politicized. We cannot be come a Christian Iran.

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Gilead?

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I was raised Jewish in a Southern Baptist town by Holocaust victims. There was a church on every corner town... 1st Baptist Church, 2nd Baptist Church, 3rd, etc. I love my heritage but not necessarily the religion. I am of the faith that if you have found something that speaks to you, gives you peace and contentment, then go for it. What I object to are missions to try and persuade the downtrodden to follow them. Jehovah’s Witnesses cones to mind.

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Yep. Repress the oppressed. Especially those heathens.

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A tool of the demagogue is to ask for faith in them and them alone. It’s easier to do this when people have already done this in their spiritual lives. It is a vulnerability that power has exploited.

We see this manifest in the population of LDS and Evangelical doctors and nurses refusing to wear masks, sabotaging their own family’s health, the health of their patients, community and hospital guidance and Covid protocols. It is unbelievable to me this day as I continue to hear doctors and nurses I know say things like, the pandemic is not that big of a deal. We don’t need to wear masks. We need herd immunity, etc, etc. It makes me sick to my stomach.

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Church of Latter Day Saints, Mormons ( not all, but a lot, but too many, and still to this day when 4,000 a day are "dying in a Leadership vacuum".

A danger of demagoguery is the erosion of professional ethics. The doc or lawyer who is either a true believer in the demagogue's lies, or just scared to loose your business, so they go along with the lie so as not to upset you, to say in the "we group".

This has a greater damaging effect when it reaches those on your school board and County's health district, and City Council. When enough believe in the lie and enough just go along with it, a critical mass develops, and common sense, common decency, and democracy are then decayed.

We cant have science and professional ethics in conflict with what the dear leader says.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/nejme2029812

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/01/lawyers-and-doctors-making-americas-crisis-worse/617673/

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Thank you

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Latter Day Saints. Mormon.

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Note, I am not bashing any one religious group. I was raised Catholic, and I have friends and family guilty of the same short comings everywhere in our country. They are prey to the lie, to a demagogue, to propaganda, and everything that comes with it. DT's demagoguery has made them fools, and even the educated are vulnerable. Scroll down to the links in the Atlantic ( doctors & Lawyers making the crisis worse) and New England Journal of Medicine criticism of leadership)

You know you have a serious problem when doctors and lawyers, our most educated people believe the big lie. To witness professionals betray their professional oaths is really quite shocking.

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Should have typed, you know WE have..... ( sorry bout that :))

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Thank you!

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A little funny for a middle-eastern religion, that was "europeanized", officialized by a roman emporer when he made catholicism the state religion!

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I can't remember where I read that early Christianity was a cult that eventually killed off Greek & Roman established religions. It was a bit jarring to me, having been raised Catholic, to read of Christianity in that light.

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And the doctrine was fixed by roman emporer Constantin!

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Excellent comment and accurate, in my opinion.

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If you had acknowledged the presence of the likes of the Quakers, Black churches, Catholic Workers, and the slew of urban religious communities as a force for justice, I would feel that your analysis was more fair. I don't believe that members of churches are any more susceptible to cults than, say, sports fans or LARPers. I am an atheist, myself, but I do value the work of many religious organizations. I think we are short-sighted to lump all people of faith into a "cult" mentality. Anti-abortion, insurrectionist, "handmaiden" style organizations are created through the force of patriarchal ideology and it deserves more "outing" as a force behind so much of our historical messes.

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Not all people, but a lot, too many I think, but especially the Christian Right leadership to hold onto a single issue instead of truth, integrity, democratic values instead of Demagogic tactics. I wish they would collectively censure DT and his tactics. DT spell is stronger to these people than their faith in God and in the Christian values they espouse.

“The Church is the Church only when it exists for others . . . not dominating, but helping and serving. It must tell men of every calling what it means to live for Christ, to exist for others.” -Dietrich Bonhoeffer

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1. I did not deny my bias

2. Christianity is generally considered the dominant form of religion in America so i used it as my example, particularly as it has been used in our current political problem.

3. I lumped Quakers in with Christians as I thought it was a Christianity-based religion. Sorry if that is incorrect.

4. Black churches? Do you feel churches attended predominantly by Black people are a separate religion than Christian-based ones?

5. Aren’t Catholic workers Christian?

6. Patriarchal based society in America largely stems from Christianity.

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My thought was that Quakers, Black churches, Catholic Workers and a slew of urban churches of various names ARE "Christian" and are the exception to your belief that all christian churches are cults. Also, I believe that Christianity stems from patriarchy, not the other way around.

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I did NOT say any or all Christian churches are cults.

I DID say that I suspect people who follow a religion might be more susceptible to getting caught up in a cult.

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Do you think that Christians are more susceptible than other populations, like sports fans, political parties, Scientologists, John Rogerites, "Stop the Steal," the Greens, etc. I'm not arguing that Christians aren't susceptible to cults, I am arguing that anyone is susceptible to a cult. Steve Hassan is a cult specialist, and has managed to bring many out of cults. His books on cults offer a look into the mind of someone who can be brought into a cult. It is a very specific phenomenon.

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I think you’re missing the entire point of my original post, that of the varied groups of attackers at the Capitol, disgruntled religion-focus groups were not specifically named in the reports.

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I would argue that Christianity largely stems from patriarchy. Not the other way around.

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Hmmm. That might be a case of ‘which came first, the chicken or the egg’. Either way, men decided:)

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There has been foreign in efforts/like a marketing campaign on SM to harden three conservative groups: Christian Right, pro gun, white supremacy groups. Aligning their goals to support Republican candidates.

Clint watts

Malcom nance

Mueller report

Andrew Weisman

NRA Maria Butina

David duke moscow condo and speaking fees

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Thought provoking and initial reaction is that it is spot on.

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Dogma is a killer. They work, until they don't work any more. History is 20/20 hindsight.

I'm frightened by the people I know who cling to the abortion issue over and above of any political discussion, even if the discussion is about fixing potholes and quickly try to shift the justification of their exceptionalism to vilify the Democrat in charge. They are very insecure. Perhaps (and I do now) we need to kindly and peacefuly treat them like children who awoke in the middle of the night after a bad dream. It might take years. It is what it is. I don't know everything either.

I'm going to go off and watch some videos about John Lewis and MLK today.

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Well said.

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I saw the fallacy of religions as a teen in high school and have vacillated between agnosticism/atheism ever since. If you are able to believe that the mythology of bronze age goat herders is factual then your grasp on reality is not too strong. So, from Mainstream Religion to Cult Following is not a great leap.

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I admit the same thoughts did cross my mind.

I wouldn’t quite say their grasp on reality isn’t strong, just that perhaps because religious beliefs became entrenched before science came along, they became a coping mechanism and social rulebook which was passed on to future generations.

I think where it tends to go wrong is when there’s a bad leader or a significant number followers are rigid-minded, intolerant, etc.

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Re Capitol involvement by Christers. Here's an enlightened perspective in "The Terrorism in Jesus' Name" by John Pavlovitz. "What we're witnessing in our nation is not protesting, it is not fighting for freedom, it is not a defense of life--and it is certainly not reflecting Jesus.

"This is white domestic terrorism that was born in the Church and has been weaned on a theology of supremacy and it needs to be destroyed." Read on

https://johnpavlovitz.com/2021/01/09/the-white-terrorism-in-jesus-name

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Thank you. I will read it.

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Ur right!

Even in the 1830s Diplomat and French historian Alexander de’Tocville observed how naive/gullible Americans could be. Victims of their own freedom to pursue their passions and freedom of speech. SM has accelerated all of it.

Fantasyland, Kurt Anderson

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social media, I think.

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Ah, yes. That fits Thank you!

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Agreed. One the most obvious books that could be used to teach and illustrate critical thinking skills is the Bible, written by many authors with a variety of motivations long after a history of oral story-telling. I used to work in public education and going anywhere near the Bible to educate students about the fallacies inherent in non-evidential belief systems is absolutely taboo.

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Trump is planning to leave office with a military style farewell including marching soldiers, tanks and maybe even a flyover of jets...

Is this his last and final attempt to take control using our own military? Can he garner enough support among military leaders to follow him in such a move? He is not finished and I will not feel better until Donald, his family and co-conspirators, including Flynn, Stone, Miller, etc. are locked up for what they have done.

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I have this image of all the soldiers bending over and giving him a collective moon as he walks past on his red carpet. Oh, what a photo for the history books!

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My husband said the same thing. “A 21 BUN salute!”

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PERFECT!

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I had an image of the guns instead of bullets, would have a little flags that shoot out the name loser. And then all their pants drop.. and yes.. a lunar vision ie mooning... haha

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If this send off comes to fruition, I hope NO media covers it on TV. Hey, Rupert Murdoch, can you call off Fox on this? Remove TV coverage of Trump and he withers.

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I would like to see Murdoch in jail. Why does he want to destroy our country?

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This shouldn’t happen. It disgusts me.

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My questions:

Will it be used against us - like handing over a bunch of planes & other instruments to 9/11 terrorists?

Will it stoke extremists?

If neither of the above, will it give closure to many of the Trumpists?

It will definitely cost money we can ill afford and which he doesn’t deserve.

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I have the same concerns. I am also leery of the massive troop deployment in DC. How many of them have gone to the dark side? I am nervous as hell about this.

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I’m with you on this. It’s another virus. Invisible and potentially deadly.

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I worry too about the troops in D.C.

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Purpose is to stoke extremists and rike up everyday magates. No closure for these folks. They will await future instructions from their fearless leader.

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This is "unprecedented "! Ugh.

IF this is allowed to happen, it would be absolutely crazy. WHO can tell this man, NO?!

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Despite the lunacy of this, imagine how much money this will cost! What a waste.

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No one has, all of his life . That's the problem.

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Nancy Pelosi did I think, very early on in his dictatorship-wannabe. She needs to do so again. Congress holds purse strings right? Or he really can command "his" military since they're all getting paid anyway? I hope this story of his dream parade gets squashed like the last time he wanted to strut his stuff. Double, triple UHG

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I agree. She smelled a rat from day one. His last delusional military parade went nowhere. I feel if he gets his juvenile wish, he will interpret it into adoration , which it isn't.

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Let’s not forget when she tore her copy of his speech up!

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That is the question, Lynn.

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It’s astounding that granting him this grand send-off is even being considered. Can’t enough people who are being called on to orchestrate this simply refuse?

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I have been wanting the pilots of Air Force One planes and helicopters refuse to take-off!

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I understand he requested a 21 gun salute. I hope they aim carefully and don't miss their target.

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And more importantly, for what they and some of their more rabid supporters and enablers still plan to do in the future. That's the danger.

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So would they decline to do the traditional military farewell ceremony, and then agree to do a giant military parade? That seems hard to imagine.

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All about his regal image. Fox news will be sure to cover this "winning' event, so his magates will see their leader as King! And they will eagerly await his instructions for continued insurrections, sent from golf courses all over the world. Someone must stop this fascist, and silence him, because he is nowhere done destroying our democracy.

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Can you provide a link to info about this planned military farewell? I'd like to read more about it.

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To impress his magates, make it look like he won again, something higher. Like World Emperor. He must be locked up, ans Silenced.

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That "document" posted by Josh Hawsey that Lindell supposedly gave to Trump is one of the strangest things I've tried to check out. "The American Report" doesn't seem to actually exist beyond the single article shown in the screenshot, and my browser keeps throwing up warnings that if you continue to this site, unknown people may steal your stuff. The link at the bottom, www.blxware.org, leads to an equally strange site with wild, quasi-reasonable claims of domestic spying, written in caps so large that it's hard to read the page.

The content of this "The American Report" is just as strange, simply asserting, without citation, that some IP address in various other countries "hacked" some IP address in various States, like Georgia or Michigan, without any indication as to what the "hack" did, but that it's somehow supposed to be "proof" that foreign actors faked millions of votes.

Anyone who considers such material as evidence justifying a declaration of martial law is either stupid, demented, dishonest, or a combination of all three. What a strange world all those people live in...

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And, of course, the hacks only occurred in the so called contested states.

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They occurred in Georgia, for example, even though the machines there simply speed-count paper ballots that were also hand counted. They did not occur in Kentucky, where electronic voting machines are connected to the internet and McConnell won by 59% after polling at 39%.

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And some counties McConnell won in Kentucky had registered 120% of eligible voters, I assume dead or alive.

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Why is this not addressed?

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Too much happening now? The article I read (well sourced) indicated an ongoing investigation of Kentucky's "dirty rolls". Questions also arose re: the voting machines used in these counties were all the same brand (and NOT Dominion. Maybe ES&S?). Might be a good task for the National Democratic Committee and Abram's FairFight to investigate. If suspicions are true, would eexplain McConnell's shit eating grin all these years - he knew his seat was very secure.

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ES&S it was. Given Tя☭mp's habit of accusing others of his own misdeeds, and his attacks on the Dominion machines as having been hacked to throw votes (which is not technically possible) - add in his complete confidence that the Republicans would take back the House - that alone is grounds to wonder if some other brand of actually hackable voting machine was throwing votes to Tя☭mp's side.

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Oh dear. For real? Connected to the web?

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Our world is so interconnected, it is very very difficult to have any computer that is not directly or indirectly connected to the internet. All electronic voting machines are hackable. It's the nature of the beast. It's a good thing so many states, including Georgia, switched to paper ballots with optical scanners before this election. Voting rights includes getting the rest of the states to do the same.

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And they didn’t interfere with votes for down ballot Republicans who won.

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I thought the same thing, Daria

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Many Trump supporters ARE as you describe: stupid, demented, dishonest or a combination of all three. But some actually get elected to Congress by voters who share these qualities.

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At least they are honestly representing their constituents!

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Hmmmm...... It almost sounds like this could be an example of - wait for it - Fake News! I'm beinning to see a linkage here. For people who have locked themselves inside an information bubble where this is a normal occurrence, it makes sense that they regard suspiciously any news source. I say this only half jokingly. It's very sad that this is where we've come as a society.

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How effed-up is the government and the vaccine? Around 6:30 tonight I got a robocall from the Veteran's Administration that they were scheduling vaccinations for people in Group I (me). One clinic for ALL of Los Angeles - at the hospital in West Los Angeles! Tried calling the number given but the line kept going dead. I just talked to them finally (10:55pm). Turns out they have been taking that group for appointments for THREE DAYS but only got to notifying me today. And the earliest one can get it is March 8 (in case you don't have your calendar handy, that's SEVEN WEEKS FROM NOW). I told them I'd wait for it to be at CVS, which will be faster than they can do. This government as currently organized couldn't find its ass with both hands on a clear day with a twelve hour advance notice.

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I’m in Group 4 here in Germany – March - if we get the volume of promised vaccine. With the new strain of virus, I’ve taken to double-masking and limiting more than usual, the times I venture out into the public square. Even here, where people tend to follow the guidelines, there are pods of knuckleheads on street corners, maskless, heedless of the danger they pose to themselves and their neighbors.

And the location selected for mass inoculations, which are slated to begin next month, is a massive trade show arena in the middle of nowhere, accessible by car (which I don’t keep here in DE) and subway (which I avoid like the plague itself). I could go by bike – but a two-hour round trip in the dead of winter isn’t inviting. I may end up waiting for my local pharmacy as well – even though it may take a bit longer.

Stay safe, brother.

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I’m scheduled for my first round on Monday. But before I get jabbed I’m going to ask about the 2nd round. We’ll see what they have to say.

I’m also double-masking and greatly limiting my outings. I’ve already made the decision, however, to mask during flu season for the rest of my life and to change my public outing behavior to mirror what I’ve been doing during pandemic. I’m an outdoorswoman anyway and spend most of my socialization with family and friends in the outdoors.

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Double mask is necessary. Stay safe!

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The system is messed up in Orange County as well. Web site works poorly, if at all. If one can register any response has been slow or non existent. I do know of ONE person who got the vaccine at Disneyland. Pretty Goofy, if you ask me!

Hopefully, our new administration will get the ball rolling in the right direction, and fast.

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What do you expect from a Mickey Mouse outfit? At least, the adults in the room seem to be taking charge now.

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Just to keep this going: the entire Trump administration has been one long Mr Toad’s Wild Ride. Can’t wait until the orange monster is in his own Magic Castle far away, or perhaps his Haunted House.

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We are getting the vaccine here in Ft Worth Texas. It’s going by day you registered and my date appears to be coming up this week. When I registered, the prompt put teachers at the top of the selections. But my daughter in Queens can’t get even on a list. Neither can her fiancé and he has an underlying health condition. Once again confirming the rollout is uneven and disorganized. So disappointing! So many of my friends are getting sick! I’m placing a lot of hope in Biden! To address our many ills! Good luck in getting the vaccine! 🤞🏻

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No list to get on yet in Massachusetts. I’m a teacher teaching in person and there’s a flyer that says teachers are Phase II beginning in February and that’s the level of detail available.

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