When did ISIS rise? While being aware of post hoc ergo propter hoc, I think we'll find that Western (Thanks, Dubbya!) imperialism set the stage for ISIS to coalesce. And yes, there were radical Islamic groups going back before WW2.
When did ISIS rise? While being aware of post hoc ergo propter hoc, I think we'll find that Western (Thanks, Dubbya!) imperialism set the stage for ISIS to coalesce. And yes, there were radical Islamic groups going back before WW2.
Mike, I'm just getting around to yesterday so take my comments with a good dash of salt. I enjoy the perspective of the comments you make. There is no question of the U.S.'s contributions to the growth of several violent extremist Islamist movements. But direct links between the Taliban regimes in Afghanistan and Pakistan and ISIS are few, tangled and have changed over time. They share some ideological commitments, particularly the formation of theocratic governments and (to different extents) advocating an extremist takfiri stance that Shi'ite Muslims are apostates. The originators of IS movements were Arab Sunnis who split off from AQI. Some (like al-Zarqawi) had experience in Afghanistan--some influenced by al Quaeda, some simply anti-Soviet. But while they may have preached a global Islamist vision, but their focus was on the middle east--Iraq, Syria, Jordan and (to a lesser extent) Egypt. So yes, we potentiated their rise, but mainly through our bonehead invasion of Iraq and our mishandling of the resulting mess. Their biggest recruitment drives were fed by creating alliances among groups to repel the U.S. occupation, and they benefitted from the Iraqi government's internal struggles against Shi'ite militias. This included lots of U.S. arms and equipment, stolen or passed on by some of our "allies." So, we screwed up in 1980's Afghanistan (though not as bad as the Soviets did), potentiated the rise of bin Laden through our Saudi bases while "saving Kuwait from Hussein," and then by pursuing the phantom WMD's and destroying any coherent governance in Iraq. Fast forward to now and the Afghan Taliban is having a very prickly time negotiating with IS Khorasan Province about the country is to be run.
When did ISIS rise? While being aware of post hoc ergo propter hoc, I think we'll find that Western (Thanks, Dubbya!) imperialism set the stage for ISIS to coalesce. And yes, there were radical Islamic groups going back before WW2.
Carol and Jim,
The origins of ISIS lie in the origins of the Taliban, which, the USA created to "fight Russian aggression" in Afghanistan.
We even printed extremist Islamic books to hand out in Afghanistan to promote extremism to fight the Russians.
WE are the origin of ISIS.
Osama bin Laden was once paid by the CIA.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taliban
Mike, I'm just getting around to yesterday so take my comments with a good dash of salt. I enjoy the perspective of the comments you make. There is no question of the U.S.'s contributions to the growth of several violent extremist Islamist movements. But direct links between the Taliban regimes in Afghanistan and Pakistan and ISIS are few, tangled and have changed over time. They share some ideological commitments, particularly the formation of theocratic governments and (to different extents) advocating an extremist takfiri stance that Shi'ite Muslims are apostates. The originators of IS movements were Arab Sunnis who split off from AQI. Some (like al-Zarqawi) had experience in Afghanistan--some influenced by al Quaeda, some simply anti-Soviet. But while they may have preached a global Islamist vision, but their focus was on the middle east--Iraq, Syria, Jordan and (to a lesser extent) Egypt. So yes, we potentiated their rise, but mainly through our bonehead invasion of Iraq and our mishandling of the resulting mess. Their biggest recruitment drives were fed by creating alliances among groups to repel the U.S. occupation, and they benefitted from the Iraqi government's internal struggles against Shi'ite militias. This included lots of U.S. arms and equipment, stolen or passed on by some of our "allies." So, we screwed up in 1980's Afghanistan (though not as bad as the Soviets did), potentiated the rise of bin Laden through our Saudi bases while "saving Kuwait from Hussein," and then by pursuing the phantom WMD's and destroying any coherent governance in Iraq. Fast forward to now and the Afghan Taliban is having a very prickly time negotiating with IS Khorasan Province about the country is to be run.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/11/isis-origins-anbari-zarqawi/577030/
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/11/isis-origins-anbari-zarqawi/577030/
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/11/isis-origins-anbari-zarqawi/577030/
cheers
Edit: I appear to have gotten my cut and pastes messed up. Along with the Atlantic article I meant to include:
https://institute.global/sites/default/files/articles/Diving-Deep-into-the-Origins-of-ISIS.pdf
https://www.wilsoncenter.org/article/timeline-the-rise-spread-and-fall-the-islamic-state