The state of mind of the pro-Rissia thinkers currently is that the EU is on the cusp of breaking up and NATO is the aggressor, a cynical tool for US imperialist intentions, the rest are weak puppets.
This is clearly delusional.
The EU is stronger after the (uncomfortably close) Polish election. This leaves Orban alone and isolated and allows movement towards a strong Germany, France, Poland axis. It's great to see Polish statesmen of consequence on the world stage.
And NATO,..... I ask them what they think NATO wpuld do if the US pulls out of that peaceful alliance. NATO would live on without its strongest partner, be sure of that.
Better to pressure Hungary and Turkey than expel them.
Under your purity test even the USA is suspect. Certainly Poland would have been, until now. And they've really been a good neighbor to Ukraine and a good partner.
I have been wishing this too. However, in its location it should not want to leave NATO since in a conflict with Russia, it would be surrounded by NATO states. Also, it is like Texas. They defy our constitution but we are not asking them to secede even though there is a contingent that wants it. A close friend lives there. It is where her husband is from and his mom needs them close. So, all the good people of Texas would be thrown out with the bad. It is really annoying that Hungary was allowed this leverage on Sweden's acceptance into NATO though. I think they need to have voting that does not require unanimity. It is very Quaker, but is NATO Quaker? Maybe there could be a threshold. The reason there isn't is because powerful countries like the USA and Germany don't want to be on the receiving end of a no from everyone else.
Linda, Your point on TX makes me want to raise an issue that has gotten pushed to the back due to the political ones now front and center.
Climate change is real and we are just beginning to see the edges of what's to come. TX and all of the Gulf & southern states are going to bear the brunt of much of it. From the rise of heat, humidity & sea levels (along the coasts) to significant loss of farmland (and resultant livestock) TX & FL in particular would surely struggle greatly if secession were to occur as threatened. Nature doesn't choose who is good or bad when the pymt for our treatment of the land comes due. Everyone is treated the same and these states will be in much greater need of money and resources than those in the northern latitudes. It will be interesting to see how "independent" they are then. See link below.
I think the bigger point is that the first time we either throw a state out of the Union or let one secede, we have at that moment surrendered the Union to politics. When one goes, that starts a parade of seceding states, each leaving for political issues that would resolve over time.
Demographers point to a time in the next 50 years when Texas will inevitably be a blue state. If you think that’s ridiculous, realize that California voted Rupublican in 1968, giving Nixon the White House. Texas voted for Hubert Humphrey, the Democrat.
People seem to want to either allow or force secession over … annoyance? Because they have a very bad governor? We re-elect governors and legislatures regularly, and before the popularity of the Bush family it was a reliably blue state.
I moved to Texas in 1982 with my then husband to start a new business. I watched the state go from being a pretty good place to live, to an absolute horror! There are so many uneducated and ignorant people there, who are ripe for a monster like trump to use and abuse.
I truly do not believe that Texas will be taken back to a non delusional state for decades.
Talking about breaking up the Union is what the White Nationalists WANT. It’s what they tried back in that time … oh, you remember … what we called The Civil War.
It isn’t on the table {though from time to time, I talk about Vermont, where I live, joining Canada — but I’m KIDDING!}
Really, though — most seriously, Balkanizing the US {look up the word} would not result in a lot of little countries that can survive. Right now, it’s clear the reddest of our states have trouble keeping their heads above water financially {and in Florida, Miami is struggling with REAL water …}. They don’t really want to go it alone. Without help from Blue states, they’d starve.
Tom, speaking of California, it went through a phase where radical Republicans in the state legislature made the state essentially ungovernable. The Republicans eventually so alienated a sizable chunk of voters that their party became highly unpopular, which is why California is such a blue state now. Well, for the time being, anyway. But my point is that the claim that everything happens in California first is something I'm counting on to hold true.
I could also argue that the change was within the political parties more than the Texas voters, but I agree that letting Texas secede would start others giving serious thought to what are now just ideas. I would support Cascadia: Oregon, Washington, BC, and northern California!
Your comment about the probably impacts of climate change on Texas reminded me of the Smokehouse Creek fire (near Amarillo) which has now surpassed 850,000 acres and is the second largest fire in Texas history and is closing in on becoming the largest, more than 900,000 acres in March 2006. Gifted article. https://wapo.st/3SVtVdk
My 1st impulsive thought is that unanimity is crucial because one nation can always be stupid enough to start a war on its own. It would be better to shift puzzle pieces a bit, not enough to dismantle the puzzle, to fit a new piece in.
What's happening in Hungary is - as Hungarian friends have told me they are doing - the "good ones" are leaving to live in other EU counties where as one of them said to me, "We don't have to put up with this miserable insanity."
I was born in Texas, spent the first 20 years of my life there. My family were among the first white settlors. I had an uncle who died at the Alamo. Three of my great-great grandfathers fought in that conflict for independence from Mexico so that they could keep slaves. I have family all over the state and some cousins support Texit, re-establishing the Republic of Texas. Others are firm Democrats. White Nationalism is a disease that infects the brain.
We’re lucky NATO didn’t feel that way while Trump was president.
I don’t get this “throw them out” sentiment over what may be the transient issue of Orban (or Trump). The idea of NATO is stronger and more enduring that impermanent political issues.
Lots of sensible, intelligent replies here to TCinLA’s comment, which I hope he reads and considers, which I did. My first reaction was to agree, until I read them. Thank you, LFAA Community.
I just can't agree with expulsion; Perhaps some reduction in voting weight or perhaps restrictions on self serving so blatantly in the rules. There were lots of times that France for instance drew ire for leaning towards the USSR, yet one could not fathom NATO without them. I can actually recall periods of time when it was quite common to hear really vicious passive / aggressive jokes going around about France. I'm no scholar regarding NATO rules, etc.; diplomats will have to suss it all out to serve the greater good.
I’m grateful for this comment. Truly I am. I subscribe to Obama’s view of the US becoming one among equals. It also gags me that Putin, Trump, and Netanyahu are all promoting chaos and destruction to keep themselves out of jail.
A common thread that I am starting to believe is well coordinated. In support of your position please don’t forget that Obama was building nations with great results and Trump just dumped all the work done and scrapped the plan. We were reuniting with Cuba, the Trans Pacific Partnership (TPP) had 119 pacific rim countries agreeing to speak as one when dealing with China. Both were well thought out plans for the future, Trump scrapped it all on a whim.
He also scrapped the Paris Climate Accord, the Iran nuclear treaty and started a trade war with China, ALL of which were disastrous for not just the US but the planet. The thread between the ones you mention and these is he did it because someone else had created a better plan than him and he couldn't take it. He had to blow it up just because he could.
His overwhelming narcissism and grandiosity require him to do stupid things like meeting with Kim Jong Un or even physically pushing world leaders aside all of which embarrassed not just him but the US on the world stage.
He could actually keep himself out of prison right now by negotiating with prosecutors to let him off of all his criminal trials in exchange for stepping aside from any political office,....ever + returning the Top Secret docs he stole. But, his severe narcissism and vanity won't even let him do that.
Thank you BK, I’m sure there are others also. He set us back in so many ways. He is no doubt the epitome as an example of eing uselesd except to serve a a pitiful example.
Now if the US would quit playing games and get off their butts, things would be so much better. Right now I can see the US under trump (if we stay in) play the role of Hungary.
We must procedurally outwit Leonard Leo's legislative MiniMe clerical fascist Mike Johnson and the Putin fanboy MAGA crew. This will take a coalition for the discharge petition. Including getting House Progressives on board for the supplemental aid package which includes aid to Israel. I oppose this aid to the criminal Netanyahu regime. But as we must get aid to Ukraine, I want the supplemental passed and then a major effort to enforce Biden's new National Security Memorandum which prohibits delivery of appropriated funds to allies who are in violation of international law - ie Israel under the Netanyahu regime.
Please do not be so casually dismissive of the protocols and procedures of government. These are the institutions which have been developed, preserved, and reformed for good reasons. (The MAGA House is what you get when they are destroyed.)
In short: A discharge petition is a mechanism by which a majority can overcome the obstructionism of a minority.
"In United States parliamentary procedure, a discharge petition is a means of bringing a bill out of committee and to the floor for consideration without a report from the committee by "discharging" the committee from further consideration of a bill or resolution.[1] The signatures of an absolute majority of House members are required."
It requires an absolute majority of House members. A coalition is being built. We know the bad influence of the MAGAs, but Bernie Sanders set a bad example in the Senate by purity testing the supplemental and his example might have a bad influence on House progressives.
Mike Johnson sent everybody scurrying away with a recess. Pretty hard to use it when not one is present and accounted for. There should be a rule that a majority of members can continue to do necessary government business when the Speaker is that negligent
In Oregon we had republicons walk outs last year, plenty of them. They can only be gone so many days in a session and there were many days. The law is after so many they cannot run for office. It is in the works here in Oregon to bounce them, hope it happens
I oppose it also, lin. Johnson’s johnson needs to either be strangled or whacked off. Leo should be imprisoned but then he’s not alone as there are so many of these evildoers.
'A Biden Ally Wades Into the Divide Over Gaza and Emerges With a Warning'
'After days of meetings with disaffected Democrats in Michigan, Representative Ro Khanna says President Biden cannot win the state without changes to his Middle East policy.' (NYTimes, excerpts)
'Representative Ro Khanna of California last week assumed the unofficial role as mediator between Democrats disaffected by Mr. Biden’s Middle East policies and Biden allies like himself. He met with students, Arab American leaders and progressive voters, many of whom said they were, at least for now, withholding their support from Mr. Biden.'
'He was blunt about his takeaway.'
“We cannot win Michigan with status quo policy,” Mr. Khanna, who has pushed for a cease-fire, said in an interview, adding that a shift should come in “a matter of weeks, not months.”
“Every day that goes by where we’re seeing the bombing of women and children on social media or cable news is not a good day for our party,” 'he said.'
'Mr. Khanna’s assessment is the latest warning sign for Mr. Biden about a swing state he won narrowly in 2020. The state is home to a large and increasingly discontent Arab American community, whose leaders have been pressing the White House for months to call for a cease-fire in a war that has left some 29,000 people dead in Gaza since Hamas attacked Israel on Oct. 7. In recent weeks, activists have begun urging Democrats to register their anger by marking their primary ballots as “uncommitted” rather than voting for Mr. Biden.'
'Mr. Biden last campaigned in the state at the beginning of this month, when he spoke to members of the United Auto Workers union in Warren, Mich., and faced protests from some pro-Palestinian activists. Vice President Kamala Harris also faced protesters last week when she came to discuss abortion policy at a round table in Grand Rapids, Mich., far from the Detroit metropolitan area where much of the war-related discontent is centered.'
'Mr. Khanna fielded questions about the war from students at the University of Michigan. He attended a rally on getting corporate money out of politics alongside Representative Rashida Tlaib of Michigan, the sole member of Michigan’s congressional delegation backing the “uncommitted” efforts. And he met with elected and community leaders withholding their support for Mr. Biden.'
'In public remarks and private conversations, Mr. Khanna said that Democrats needed to better acknowledge the party’s shifting base and the concerns about the conflict, pointing to Michigan’s substantial young, Black and Arab American electorates.'
'But whether he can actually push the president to shift his policy on the war is unclear. Mr. Biden has not called for a permanent cease-fire, even as he has said that Israel should do more to prevent civilian casualties.'
'On Friday, Mr. Biden’s administration reversed Trump-era policy on settlements in the occupied West Bank when Secretary of State Antony J. Blinken called new settlements “inconsistent with international law.” That may not be enough to appease his detractors in Michigan, who said at rallies over the weekend that rebuilding ties with the administration would at least require a permanent cease-fire.'
“There has to be some change in policy, and then once we get the change in policy, then there’s got to be some time for healing,”' Mr. Khanna acknowledged in a conversation with Mika’il Stewart Saadiq, an imam in Detroit, who backed Mr. Biden ahead of the 2020 primary but planned to vote “uncommitted” on Tuesday.'
“You have to give us something to campaign for,” Mr. Saadiq told Mr. Khanna, pointing to a cease-fire call and recognition of a Palestinian state. Otherwise, he added, “we’re in trouble.”
'During meetings, Mr. Khanna peppered attendees with questions about what they wanted out of the White House, and what it would take to ensure Mr. Biden won Michigan. He met with leaders including Mayor Abdullah Hammoud of Dearborn, who refused a meeting with Mr. Biden’s campaign manager last month.'
'Former Representative Andy Levin of Michigan, another supporter of the' “uncommitted” effort, saw a similarly grim picture for Democrats, The Associated Press reported, telling Mr. Khanna that if the election were tomorrow, “it would be a disaster for Democrats.”
'Mr. Khanna is not supporting the movement to vote “uncommitted” — he said that if he were a Michigan resident, he would vote for Mr. Biden. And he is not among those who say the campaign is only teeing up former President Donald J. Trump for a victory in the state, as the state’s governor, Gretchen Whitmer, has suggested in recent days.
'Mr. Trump won Michigan in 2016 by over 10,000 votes, the amount of support that backers of the “uncommitted” effort say they are aiming to receive on Tuesday.'
“I have admiration for people who are using their rights as an American citizen to cast a ballot in a way that they think will bring a policy change,” 'Mr. Khanna said.'
'Supporters of the “uncommitted” campaign reject the notion that they are helping to elect a former president who campaigned on anti-Muslim rhetoric.'
“It’s incredibly disrespectful when people say the communities that have felt the impact of Donald Trump more than anyone else don’t understand the danger of Donald Trump — it’s actually the inverse,” Abraham Aiyash, the Democratic majority leader in the Michigan House of Representatives, said after speaking with Mr. Khanna and another state representative, Ranjeev Puri.'
“We absolutely understand it,” he continued, “and I think the question then becomes for the White House, if a community is telling you, ‘We know how dangerous Donald Trump is, but what you are doing in this moment is an abject moral failure,’ then that has to resonate in some capacity.” (NYTimes ByBy Anjali Huynh, Reported from Detroit and Dearborn, Mich.) See link below. Sorry it could not be gifted.
From those opposing Biden’s Middle East efforts, I’d like to know what alternative they propose, in detail. Is a “cease fire” that different from a “temporary cease fire?” Every cease fire is temporary in that it lasts until someone on either side breaks it.
I’ve heard no other specific demands. Are disaffected Democrats asking for Hamas facilities (tunnels or others) to be left in place? Biden has opposed West Bank settlements.
Probably, they’d like Biden to cutoff arms sales to Israel, or at least threaten to. But disaffected Dems must realize that Biden is corned. If he cuts off arms, he’ll lose many Jewish and non-Jewish supporters, and he’ll weaken the democracy’s strongest counterbalance to Iran.
I support Israel and despise Netanyahu. He has become Israel’s worst enemy, an Israeli version of Trump. But he is very smart. Netanyahu knows he has Biden trapped. With the US election 8 months away, Biden can not threaten to cutoff arms.
So my question: What policies do disaffected Democrats propose?
To not vote for Biden is of course dangerous this election year. The disaffected folk do not realize how extraordinarily complicated this part of the country is. I am both Israel (without Netanyahu) and Palestinian supportive.
Thank you. I believe most reasonable people are pro Israel and pro Palestinian rights. And we can be very pro Israel and be very anti Netanyahu - the same way we are very pro America and anti Trump.
Our choice in America on November 5th is completely binary. It's more than a dangerous choice. There is no reasonable middle ground. There is only democracy with Biden or Project 2025 and fascism with Trump.
I could give us a list of what I disagree with relative to US policy and Joe Biden. But the horrors of another Trump presidency are so obviously insane, there is no contest. To abandon a flawed Biden and a Democratic Party that believes in the rule of law - domestically and internationally is to invite a descent to Hell of Earth.
From Wiki:
"The plan proposes slashing U.S. Department of Justice (DOJ) funding, dismantling the FBI and the Department of Homeland Security, gutting environmental and climate change regulations to favor fossil fuel production, and eliminating the cabinet Departments of Education and Commerce."
Project 2025 also advocates firing most of the career employees of the Federal government and replacing them with Trump loyalists. Anyone remember Trump's cabinet of flunkies? Carson, DeVos et al? This would be incompetence on steroids and we would be viewed as worse than a "banana republic". We would lose all our international credibility and be a major contributor to the Climate Catastrophe.
That and much more horror like a national ban on abortion and perhaps restrictions on birth control will be the results of not supporting and voting for Biden/Harris.
There are many reasons to be upset and protest the situation in Gaza. But the alternative to Biden/Harris is the complete collapse of everything we hold dear in this experiment in democracy. Did I mention privatizing Social Security and Medicare? Anyone else remember their retirement portfolio dropping by about 40% in 2008? Yeah, let's just hand our financial future to Wall Street. All this and much more is part of Project 2025. A threat greater than anything else going on in the world. It's a binary choice. Democracy under Biden or Fascism under Trump.
One of the things that death star has promised is massive deportation. Everyone may think that applies only to people who have crossed our southern border, but it is also likely to apply to anyone who is Muslim. I too am unhappy with Bibi and his far right coalition, but potentially allowing death star to win is counterproductive and will end the US as a democracy, turning it into a white nationalist theocratic dictatorship. Bill above describes this as a descent to hell on earth and he is spot on
With all the options that you mentioned Bill, attempts to influence Biden by voting uncommitted on the primary ballot in Michigan, for example, with reference to mortality, health, education and rights of Palestinians and Arabs in Gaza, The West Bank, etc. was not mentioned. Protesting a Biden policy doesn't mean when it comes to the presidential election you would vote for Trump. Work to influence the president is part of our role as citizens. Many would like see much more accomplished about Climate Change, and there other important issues for his administration to review and update. Respecting and supporting Biden does not mean, in my opinion, accepting everything he does and doesn't do. Voicing our concerns and working to influence policy doesn't mean voting for Trump.
Heather, I think most people want peace for the Palestinians and Israelis. That includes stopping of settlements in the West Bank. But how do we get there? What could Biden do to make it happen…considering the risk that some choices could put Trump back in the Whitehouse, which is less likely to bring peace.
I also find it scary that they want Biden to act as a dictator. There are years of policy and protocol for dealing with long-standing allies. Trump (and Netanyahu) of course ignore all factors but their own ambitious whims, as do all authoritarians.
Stanley, what I think these disaffected voters are missing is this, a cease fire inly allows Hamas time to breathe and then rebuild its strength to attack again. Biden’s efforts squeeze Hamas out of Gaza and replaces it with a New Palestinian Authority
Smart as we like to think we all are, I would guess if any of us actually knew all the issues that Biden and his team were dealing with Israel and Paledtine, we would be genuinely shocked at the depth of detail, the interlocking issues, the number of countries involved.
I think Biden has an attitude toward his work that is of great value and effectiveness, but can shortchange him politically. That is, he works hard behind the scenes. That’s because he’s learned that it works much better. The country is used to the clowning Trump, playing for the cheap seats. Before that we had the political star Obama, who could and did speak eloquently on every issue. But Biden has pulled more rabbits out of his hat—both legislatively and diplomatically—in three years than either of those two in their whole terms.
I wish Biden could be this effective AND get credit for it. But I’m sure he would rather have the former, even if he sacrifices the latter.
🤩🤩 very well said! Thank you!! I can understand the young man lighting himself on fire as that is how painful it is to watch so many thousands especially children murdered. Putin, Hamas and Netanyahu are the murderers! Trump will enable Netanyahu to wipe the Palestinians off the map. If you want to help Palestinians, then get your asses in gear and do everything you can to keep Trump from another 4 years in the Oval Office. It is not rocket science!!
Tom, in today’s world of Fox Reality, NYT bull crap, WP bothsiderism and NPR going out to lunch looking for a safe meal ticket, even if Christ endorsed him, there’d be no recognition
Well, not the point I was trying to make. I was talking about his personal leadership style, not the media.
I don’t argue about the media any more. Because they can’t be reformed except from within, snd because they are increasingly irrelevant. 90% of the readership of the NYT is Democratic (their statistic), and 95% of Fox viewers are either MAGA or non-voters. So neither is really in the persuasion business, they’ve in the affirming business.
'disaffected voters': Some of the voters in Michigan who check 'uncommitted' on their ballots are making their voices heard. It does not provide information about how many such votes of that nature will be cast; how Biden will respond or what those people's decisions will be concerning the presidential election. You also did not address the deaths and inhuman conditions now endured by the Gazans or in The West Bank. There have been no agreements with reference to how Gaza will be governed. Your incomplete comment appears to favor the status quo and give no consideration of other points of view and no real indication of what 'disaffected voters' are missing, Dave.
Well, they are still disaffected. They have a duty to themselves to vote their conscience, however in a binary world, their vote that diminishes Biden is support for Trump in the current moment
My “not addressing” the Gaza atrocity or the West Bank, here, doesn’t mean I haven’t addressed it elsewhere
The lack of a final agreement “now” doesn’t mean that Biden is not working on a more permanent solution “now”
My incomplete statement is based on not being privy to Blinken’s negotiations with the leaders of the surrounding countries working toward a two state solution. I do “know” that this occurring now. For me, status quo is Netanyahu and Hamas are both against a two state solution, yet “to me” without that, Bibi bombs Gaza and Hamas terrorizes Israel a month from now, a year from now forever; that’s status quo as well
What is your point of view? I see no indication of that here. Do you favor a temporary cease fire? Continued tensions via Hamas or the Israeli Settlers?
Imo, disaffected voters want Israel to be abandoned by Biden or else. Nothing less, and they are using their vote to demonstrate their “or else”. They know that’s not possible for Biden to do. It’s also my opinion that they believe Biden is responsible for Netanyahu. He’s not. I believe Biden is attempting to pressure him into a corner, that eventually creates a Palestinian State
What these voters are missing is the longer term solution in favor of immediate temporary relief. Thats a repeating cycle. Biden’s working toward a sea change
You may not agree with my considerations but that doesn’t mean I haven’t considered them
'Scoop: State Department reviewing options for possible recognition of Palestinian state' (Axios)
'Secretary of State Tony Blinken asked the State Department to conduct a review and present policy options on possible U.S. and international recognition of a Palestinian state after the war in Gaza, two U.S. officials briefed on the issue told Axios.'
'Why it matters: While U.S. officials say there has been no policy change, the fact the State Department is even considering such options signals a shift in thinking within the Biden administration on possible Palestinian statehood recognition, which is highly sensitive both internationally and domestically.'
'For decades, U.S. policy has been to oppose the recognition of Palestine as a state both bilaterally and in UN institutions and to stress Palestinian statehood should only be achieved through direct negotiations between Israel and the Palestinian Authority.
Yes but: Efforts to find a diplomatic way out of the war in Gaza has opened the door for rethinking a lot of old U.S. paradigms and policies, a senior U.S. official said.'
'The Biden administration is linking possible normalization between Israel and Saudi Arabia to the creation of a pathway for the establishment of a Palestinian state as part of its post-war strategy. This initiative is based on the administration's efforts prior to Oct. 7 to negotiate a mega-deal with Saudi Arabia that included a peace agreement between the kingdom and Israel.'
'Saudi officials have publicly and privately made clear since Oct. 7 that any potential normalization agreement with Israel would be conditioned on the creation of an "irrevocable" pathway toward a Palestinian state.'
'Some inside the Biden administration are now thinking recognition of a Palestinian state should possibly be the first step in negotiations to resolve the Israeli-Palestinian conflict instead of the last, the senior U.S. official said.'
'There are several options for U.S. action on this issue, including:'
'Bilaterally recognizing the state of Palestine.'
'Not using its veto to block the UN Security Council from admitting Palestine as a full UN member state.'
'Encouraging other countries to recognize Palestine.'
'State of play: U.S. officials said the review of options regarding the recognition of a Palestinian state is one of several issues Blinken asked the State Department to look at.'
'Blinken also asked for a review of what a demilitarized Palestinian state would look like based on other models from around the world, the two U.S. officials said.'
'The idea of a demilitarized Palestinian state is something Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu proposed several times between 2009 and 2015, but hasn't referred to it in recent years.'
'The purpose of such a review is to look at options for how a two-state solution can be implemented in a way that assures security for Israel, a U.S. official said.'
'What they're saying: The U.S. official said the White House is aware of the two reviews.'
'The official stressed Blinken hasn't signed off on any new policy and the State Department is in the process of coming up with a big menu of options.'
'A White House National Security Council spokesperson said it' "has been long-standing U.S. policy that any recognition of a Palestinian state must come through direct negotiations between the parties rather than through unilateral recognition at the UN. That policy has not changed."
'The State Department declined to comment.'
'Flashback: The State Department under the Obama administration did look at the issue of recognition of a Palestinian state, including after the Palestinian Authority sought recognition as a full member state at the UN in 2011.'
'At the time, the State Department prepared a substantial paper on the issue but it wasn't discussed inside the administration as a serious option, according to an official briefed on the paper.'
'The UN General Assembly accepted Palestine as an observer state in 2012 but did not give it full membership.'
'Zoom out: British Foreign Minister David Cameron said on Monday the U.K. is considering recognition of Palestine as part of its plans for the day after the war in Gaza and as a way to give the Palestinians a political horizon.'
"We — with allies — will look at the issue of recognizing a Palestinian state, including at the United Nations … that could be one of the things that helps to make this process irreversible," 'he said.'
'Reality check: Netanyahu, who has long opposed a two-state solution, has recently rejected calls for Palestinian sovereignty and Israel is vehemently against any recognition of a Palestinian state by individual countries or at the UN.'
'Netanyahu's government includes ultranationalists who oppose even small overtures to the Palestinians. U.S. officials have admitted it's extremely unlikely they'd agree to a path toward a future Palestinian state.'
'What to watch: Blinken is expected to meet with Israeli Minister for Strategic Affairs Ron Dermer later Wednesday and discuss the situation in Gaza, plans for the day after the war and the possibility of normalization with Saudi Arabia.' (Axios)
'Netanyahu’s ‘day after’ plan for Gaza is unviable'
'At the end of last week, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu finally did what critics have long demanded. He issued a proposal to his war cabinet outlining a vision for a postwar future for the Gaza Strip. But Netanyahu’s hard-line vision, which includes Israel maintaining indefinite military control over the territory, was panned by analysts as a bid to kick the can down the road and restore an untenable status quo.'
'The plan, circulated early Friday, is “largely a collection of principles the premier has been vocalizing since the beginning of the war,” noted Jacob Magid of the Times of Israel, “but it was the first time they have been formally presented and submitted to the cabinet for approval.” My colleagues outlined some of its core points:'
'Israel’s military will stay in Gaza as long as it takes to demilitarize the enclave, eliminate Hamas and keep it from regrouping.
Israel will assume greater control of Gaza’s southern border, in cooperation with Egypt “as much as possible,” and will carve out border buffer zones to prevent smuggling and further attacks.'
'The United Nations’ primary aid agency in Gaza and the West Bank would be disbanded and replaced. Israel accuses the U.N. Relief and Works Agency, or UNRWA, of complicity with Hamas and fostering hatred of Jews.'
'The proposal rejects any permanent agreement with “the Palestinians” that is not achieved through direct negotiations with Israel, as well as any “unilateral” Palestinian state.
'The world confronts Israel over its occupation of Palestinian lands'
'Much of this flies in the face of the stated expectations of the United States, European and Arab governments. The Biden administration has repeatedly stressed that Israel should not maintain an indefinite occupation of Gaza and wants to see the Palestinian Authority assume responsibilities there. Egypt has rejected any Israeli role on its border with Gaza. UNRWA is a vital institution for the delivery of services to millions of Palestinians, especially in Gaza, and, for all the controversy surrounding some of its employees, would be difficult to replace.'
'In the West Bank, Palestinian Authority officials rejected Netanyahu’s approach. “The plans proposed by Netanyahu are aimed at continuing Israel’s occupation of the Palestinian territories and preventing the establishment of a Palestinian state,” said Nabil Abu Rudeineh, a spokesman for authority President Mahmoud Abbas.' “Israel will not succeed in its attempts to change the geographical and demographic reality in the Gaza Strip.”
'On Monday, the Palestinian Authority’s prime minister presented the resignation of the beleaguered entity’s entire government, as the United States and other governments look to it to reform and pick up the slack after the fighting eventually stops. The PA is deeply unpopular among Palestinians for its role as handmaiden to Israel’s occupation, as well as the alleged corruption of its entrenched political elites. But it’s the only game in town.'
“The move follows months of intense deliberations between Ramallah, Washington and Arab states, on how best to boost the legitimacy and efficiency of the Palestinian Authority so it can be part of a postwar solution in Gaza,” my colleagues reported.'
'They added: “The consensus has converged on a vision for an empowered prime minister role and government of technocrats, with a curb on some of the absolute unchecked power that have accumulated around 88-year-old Abbas, according to U.S. and Palestinian officials.”
'Whatever emerges there, Netanyahu has signaled a blanket rejection of any solutions that empower the Palestinians. He is opposed to the PA taking over in Gaza, opposed to any talk of reconstruction in Gaza without an amorphous program of “deradicalization” in the territory and opposed to any discussion of Palestinian statehood in the aftermath of the conflict.'
'On all these fronts, Netanyahu can justifiably argue that he’s in line with Israeli public opinion. But his positions are at odds with those of the United States, European partners and Israel’s Arab neighbors. Wealthy states like the United Arab Emirates and Saudi Arabia tethered potential investment in Gaza’s reconstruction to the revival of a political track that would lead to the creation of an independent Palestinian state. The Biden administration also wants to boost prospects for a two-state solution that Netanyahu has spent decades undermining.'
'Netanyahu’s proposal, argued Alon Pinkas, a former senior Israeli diplomat, is “consistent” with Netanyahu’s record of “manipulation and gaslighting.” 'His' “day after” 'plan, Pinkas concluded,' “is effectively a negation of the Biden plan, a list of statements that constitute open-ended Israeli control of Gaza with no political silver lining.”
'In that sense, it’s also a bid to return Israel to Oct. 6 — a febrile status quo where Israel maintained control over the lives of millions of Palestinians either under occupation or economic embargo.' “Netanyahu’s plan for the day after is that there is no plan for the day after,” 'wrote Haaretz’s Noa Landau.' “Under Netanyahu, Israelis and Palestinians are destined, like in the movie ‘Groundhog Day,'’ to wake up yesterday morning. He wants what he always wanted: to manage the conflict without ever solving it.”
'As Israel corners Rafah, Netanyahu defies the world'
'Netanyahu, facing record low approval ratings, may simply be trying to buy time, staving off Biden administration pressure while keeping hold of the motley right-wing coalition that helps him stay in power.' “The plan is not enforceable, it’s not implementable and I don’t think it’s going to happen,”' Nomi Bar-Yaacov, associate fellow at Britain’s Chatham House think tank, told the BBC.' “Netanyahu is talking to his right-wing coalition.”
'He is not simply talking to it. Over the weekend, Israel’s government announced plans to expand settlements in the West Bank, even after the Biden administration deemed Israel’s West Bank settlements' “inconsistent with international law” — 'a reversal of a Trump-era policy siding with the settlers.'
'The expansion of settlements, which carve up the West Bank’s with segregated roads and other civilian infrastructure, is seen as a major stumbling block for the emergence of any viable Palestinian state. It’s one of the reasons numerous experts are skeptical about the revived chatter regarding a two-state solution.'
“The principal effect of talking again about two states is to mask a one-state reality that will almost surely become even more entrenched in the war’s aftermath,” wrote Shibley Telhami and Marc Lynch in Foreign Affairs. (WAPO, by Ishaan Tharoor) Copied in full.
Thank you, Fern, for supplying so much information. My immediate thought was "the devil is in the details!" What I don't know historically is what is Israel's authority over the West Bank? I know Israel has "occupied" and assumed authority, but is it possible for the United Nations to take over the situation and establish a new Palestinian state? Kick out the Jewish "settlers" or give them the choice of living under Palestinian rule? Establish a new state just as Israel was established as a new state? It sounds ideal if other Arab states would help with the rebuilding.
And something I wanted to ask about and no one has mentioned ---on WAMU in DC it was mentioned two days ago that Netanyahu was pushing the building of a huge refugee camp, I think on Egyptian land near Rafah, to move all the Gazans into to evacuate Rafah so it could be bombed or otherwise to search for Hamas. I have not heard a thing about that since.
Hello Barbara, your interest in the history and recent policies concerning Israel, the Palestinians and Arabs in Israel, Gaza and West Bank is an excellent model for the engaged citizen. I apologize for not having the time to give your questions the time they disserve. With reference to learning more about Palestinian history, I recommend the work of Columbia Professor, Rashid Khalidi and have provided several links below.
Sorry that I was unable to gift the NYTimes book review linked below.
Nutofyoohoo, and Orbanity are manipulating every move in order to have dictator rights. Their own people hate them.
So, as Stanley says : what do you suggest Biden do??? And given the honor of continuing his administrations
attempt that is trying every day to get America back on a sane and sensible track why even threaten his position.
I was honored through my work to be part of President Carter’s attempt in the ‘70’s to bring a peace agreement to Begin, Sadat in Egypt and in Israel.
They signed the peace agreement at Camp David in 1979.
Please pay attention to the leaders of Israel and of Hungry. You might recognize trump if you do. Those three are not about helping anyone except themselves. I cringe at their names even being thrown at us every day. Are the billions on this planet truly afraid to stand up to these horrific specimens of human animals.
Be proud!!!! But even more, be SMART. Learn some history and some skills at building a true peace.
"But disaffected Dems must realize that Biden is cornered. If he cuts off arms, he’ll lose many Jewish and non-Jewish supporters, and he’ll weaken the democracy’s strongest counterbalance to Iran."
Do you have any data to back up that assertion re: voting? That seems to be a "you made me support you while you were carrying out crimes" argument.
The U.S. Jews I know or know of are all very opposed to Netanyahu, and Israel's long-term abuse of West Bank Palestinians. It seems to me that Biden and Blinken could make it very clear that they have been urging the Israeli government to:
1) not cut off food, water, gas, and electricity to Gaza
2) allow in humanitarian aid much sooner and at much higher levels
3) stop adding illegal WB settlements, and to in fact start dismantling them on a set schedule
4) accept a 2-state solution , to be put in place in phases over say 1-2 years
5) agree to the new peace deal HCR explained today
6) not attack Rafah, where 1 million innocents are huddled (along with maybe 10,000 Hamas fighters)
They could then say that the U.S., as by far Israel's largest arms provider, has exhausted all confidential diplomatic channels to persuade Netanyahu et al to make these changes in policy. Since they've rejected every bit of our urgings, we have no choice but to put our provision of arms on hold. Whether those resume in the future will depend on what policy choices the Israeli government makes. For the moment, we believe that this is the only way to clearly get across our message to the PEOPLE of Israel. If their government wants to buy arms elsewhere, it's welcome to do so.
Jews make up 2.4% of the U.S. population. How much control over Biden's foreign policy should the staunchly pro-Israel subset be given? Especially when major moral issues are involved? My guess is that many millions of Americans would love to see Biden stand up with this kind of clarity and firmness.
So true, Tyler. That's what Biden and Blinken are doing. They have succeeded in getting a buy in from Israel's Arab neighbors, like Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Jordan. The problem is Iran.
Tyler Taylor, There is no good data to say how many Jews and non-Jews would vote against Biden, or do not vote, in November. There are too many variables to make such predictions reliable. However, I know Jews who have shifted from progressive left to Republican over their senses of Democratic anti-Israel positions: one-issue voters. After all, Trump can talk about total support for Israel and for Netanyahu. He can even act out his support, as he did when he announced moving the US embassy. That’s because he doesn’t give a flip about long-term consequences; never has, never will.
There also are non-Jews who love Israel. Israel hosts large numbers of non-Jewish tourists. The thing is, Biden’s 2020 margins were small in states that mattered. The electoral college means that a few states decide the presidency. How close to the margins do you want to play? IMO, risk analysis means we have to work every angle we can, and not give up any. BOTTOM LINE, Tyler, don’t you think Bibi knows and is playing on Biden’s cornered situation?
Stanley, you need to read Simon Rosenberg, a reliable poll watcher and statistician. He strongly disagrees with your conclusions. It's tRump that scored terribly in Michigan andSouth Carolina.
Stanly, Biden is the only one who has recognized that in order for Israel to live in peace with its neighbors, these neighbors have to accept Israel's existence and be willing to normalize relations with them. That part of HCR's letter has been ignored by the Palestinian supporters on this thread. Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Jordan at long last have recognized their own security is at stake. They are now hinting that they are willing to do just that. That's what Biden's quiet diplomacy has been all about. Netanyahu despite all his faults just made the same argument with harsher terms. Although, most people agree he must go, he is not the major reason Israel finds itself in this position. They fought 4 major wars, 13 operations, and won. Ariel Sharon removed all of his troops from Gaza. What did he get? Hamas, a terrorist org. funded by Iran on its border. Let's call a spade a spade. The Jew haters will find any reason to condemn Israel as we have found out in the US. Jewish leaders, authors of newsletters we all read and leaders in our gov't. have sided with left wing progressives, code for Jew haters like Rashida Tlaib and Students for Justice Jews are losing the propaganda war!
Eadie, Netanyahu has expanded Israel’s relations with countries around the world, China, Saudi Arabia, and more. He’s smart and forceful. But he also has harmed Israel’s relations around the world by strongly resisting a two-state solution. We agree that Jews need a homeland. How can Israelis deny others what they demand for themselves? One reply could be that Jordan, etc, could absorb them. But all of Palestine was never (in modern times) an option. And surrounding Muslim and Arab nations won’t accept Palestinians. Bibi has given nations and people reasons to dislike and disrespect Israel. That’s a far cry from the Israel I grew up watching.
Stanley, you make some good points, but let me push back on some of your conclusions. Netanyahu, is a present day negative force. However, this was not always the case. He would have gone for a two state solution up until 2005 when he realized there was no satisfying Arafat or Abbas and mainly Iran. Israelis are not denying the Palestinian a homeland, but to expect Israel to give up the measly portion of Palestinian land they received through the League of Nations is a bridge to far. 9.5 million people are living on land the size of New Jersey or Conneticut. You might say, the Palestinians numbering over a million living in an area I believe is around 141 Square miles is an open air prison. You need to review the history of the partition after WWII. In 1948 Jews as well as Palestinians were throw off their land. 900,000 Jews lived all over the Middle East. Their Arab neighbors put them in tents where they languished until Israel became a state. On the other hand, Israel welcomed BOTH Israelis and Arabs who wished to stay in Israel. 20% of Israel's population are Arabs and they are represented by Monsour Abbas in the Knesset. that Israel shed blood and won. How many Jews were welcomed in Gaza? How many Jews graduated from their schools? How many Jews live in Gaza? The answer is Zero. They had to flee for their lives. The Arabs were collaborators with Hitler during WWII. Their leader worshipped him. Their charter specifically says they must eliminate the Jews. When will Jews in the US like Bernie Sanders and Reich stop apologizing for the Palestinians and their Arab neighbors. The right wing coalition did not come out of thin air. They have been murdered, called occupationists usurping Arab land, when no such thing is true. The settlers are living on disputed land taken back in the 1967 war. Did we give back US land to the Indians. Getting in tune with modern times as you call it is code for ignoring past treaties and the end of our democracy.
Eadie, thanks for replying. I think we’re splitting hairs. And I am familiar with the history; I wrote two position papers on it for a congressional candidate. And I’m preparing a lecture on it. There’s an argument that Netanyahu never was committed to a two-state solution; think of his father and brother. If he’d been committed, maybe no one had more ability to make it happen. But it didn’t, and here we are now with his embarrassing team. By the way, Israel and NJ have about the same area, population, and waterfront. No need to add CT. I not understand your point about “open air prison.” Are you saying Israel-proper isn’t large enough for its population? And then are you saying that’s a good reason to expand into the West Bank and Gaza? I’d be surprised if you meant that, so I don’t understand your point.
Michele, is it your notion that the current Hamas/Netanyahu war continue until it involves the entire Middle East at war? Can you not comprehend that Biden is working toward a two state solution that normalizes relations throughout the region? Your quip here suggests you aren’t really interested in a lasting peace, but rather just a tantrum in search of a target
Did you read Heather’s letter today? We have a binary choice in November. That is not going to change unless one of them keels over in the interim. If we don’t get Biden into the Oval Office for another term then Trump will help Netanyahu wipe the Palestinians off the map. You are smart enough to understand and so you will be in a small but very important way responsible if that happens.
Whatever you think of the Biden administration's policies on the Gazan war, remember the Maga alternative is to unleash the Israel fundamentalist right, all out, and you can definitely forget about giving Palestinians more authority, it will be indefinite military occupation, as if it isn't nearly already so; and of course, i'm sure the settler invasion will ramp up.
The Democratic party is not going to put forward, another candidate. So, not supporting Biden is supporting Trump. They should be thinking about what they will get in this war with Trump. They will be able to negotiate with Biden. Trump is fully behind Netanyahu.... probably because he sees himself in Netanyahu.
I hope Mr. Khanna is aware of the thin line he is walking....and possibly promoting.
Susan, your comment indicated that you were not familiar with Congressman Ro Khanna. The link that I provided for an article quoted in my comment about his meetings with students and voters in Michigan spelled out his active support for President Biden. You also wrote that he may be unaware '...of the thin line he is walking...and possibly promoting.', which I thought unconnected to Khanna's work, support of the administration and his reputation. Below are several links about bills he has sponsored in the House, his background, the NY Times article and a review of one of books he wrote, which you may find worthwhile. Salud!
I do understand the point. Just because a sociopathic, cereal rapist grifter would do something worse does not mean President (not Mr.) Biden and his team cannot do something better.
The freedom we have in this country and within many other countries is vital for peace.
Respect for one another as fellow human beings is a necessity for peace and for the healthy growth of community.
Whether it be race, religion, political opinions....the only way to accomplish greatness is through mutual respect. "Love thy neighbor as thyself" is a helpful reminder.
Thank you for this detailed report on congressional work in Michigan. Its appears to be an intelligent, mature effort by some elected officials that we do not often see or at least hear about. I believe it’s called informed negotiation.
'What Is U.S. Policy on the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict?' (Council on Foreign Relations)
'The United States has long tried to negotiate a resolution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, but several factors, including deep divisions between and within the parties and declining U.S. interest in carrying out its traditional honest-broker role, have hurt the chances of a peace deal.'
'Last updated July 12, 2023 12:00 pm (EST)'
'Summary'
'The decades-long conflict between Israelis and Palestinians is rooted in competing claims to the Holy Land, and includes disputes over borders, Jerusalem, security, and Palestinian refugees.'
'The United States has long sought a solution to the conflict that results in two states, although the Trump administration adopted policies that diverged from that goal.'
'The Biden administration has reaffirmed U.S. support for a two-state solution but hasn’t moved to restart negotiations. It has instead promoted Israeli-Arab normalization and resumed aid for Palestinians.'
'Introduction'
'Israelis and Palestinians have clashed over claims to the Holy Land for decades, a conflict that has long been one of the world’s most intractable. Although the United States is a strong supporter of Israel, it has traditionally tried to advance a diplomatic solution that would reconcile the competing claims of the two parties.'
'Multiple U.S. administrations have proposed road maps for a peace process that would result in two states, one Israeli and one Palestinian. However, critics say President Donald Trump limited prospects for a two-state solution by implementing controversial policies regarding core components of the conflict. Though the Joe Biden administration has reiterated U.S. support for a two-state solution, it has reversed only some of Trump’s changes while leaving others in place. Meanwhile, violence between the two sides has reached levels not seen since the last Palestinian uprising ended in 2005.' (Council on Foreign Relations, WRITTEN BY Kali Robinson) See link below.
Biden, meanwhile, is stuck between a rock -- AIPAC absolutism -- and a hard place, the Israeli protege, led by a conned narcissistic pervert of a conman whose priority is to avoid facing justice, flanked by Nazi-formated extremists, and leading a war, not of self-defence but of annihilation, just like Saddam, like the Al-Assads...
But, of course, with American armaments.
And there's nothing harder to reverse than built-in systems of tail-wags-dog. As America, too, is now seeing.
FERN MCBRIDE (NYC) - 'A Biden Ally Wades Into the Divide Over Gaza and Emerges With a Warning'
'After days of meetings with disaffected Democrats in Michigan, Representative Ro Khanna says President Biden cannot win the state without changes to his Middle East policy.' (NYTimes, excerpts)
How to educate young people, progressives and particularly young Black voters about the extreme and complicated issues surrounding this war and not support the emotionalism that drives further division. The pain is real; the path forward is overcome with briars; but the light that beckons is a two-state solution.
I think of White people, too. Older Whites, progressive, liberal, moderate and conservative whites would also benefit from knowing the history of the Jews and Palestinians as well as the treatment of Palestinians in Gaza, The West Bank and Israel before this latest war. Why point at 'particularly young Black voters' concerning the extreme and complicated issues...'? I see fixed and very emotional positions of Whites, including from subscribers to LFAA.
My niece In Seattle and her husband have been promoting for many years ways to educate their peers about the Palestinians. She created a "Palestinian Teaching Trunk" for school teachers to use.
Only a progressive, instead of helping to find a solution from inside the party, is so dimly unaware of how elections work that he trumpets problems into the atmosphere.
Part of this is that politicians who hail from such lefty districts that a Ham Sandwich who was a registered Democrat could win election (this was AOC in her first term. But she is very smart and learned that you need to win election to solve any problems).
Another part of this is that poor politicians have a habit of trying to imitate pundits, analyzing elections rather than winning them.
Khanna is—whatever his politics—a hack who says things that draw attention to himself, whether it helps a larger cause or not.
Yes . The phrase “Putin-Republicans” is one of those short sound bite campaign blurbs that the democrats can and should use in this election. Why not? The GOP uses these sound bites all the time. For example “job -killing regulations” or “tax and spend “ as applied to democrats.
Wait; Biden and Blinken waited three years to change Trump’s policy that Israeli settlements are perfectly legal..?! And even better; get this:
“Biden administration officials did not cast Blinken’s comments as a reversal — but only because they claim Pompeo’s determination was never issued formally. Biden administration lawyers concluded Pompeo’s determination was merely his opinion and not legally binding, according to two administration officials who spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss private discussions.”
@HeatherCoxRichardson- I know this is off topic, but I’d really like to hear your thoughts on this please. If Biden wins the 2024 election, what can the administration do to prevent the GOP’s new plan to obstruct the results? They’re nailing down a J6 2.0 plan to take over the government and have learned from their mistakes. It appears there is no legal recourse to their plan, so it has a greater chance of success than in 2021. This has been written about and described extensively by Newsweek’s Tom Rogers, Mark Medish & Joel McCleary for the Washington Spectator, Joy Reid and Thom Hartmann. It’s public knowledge although, as usual, the media is generally ignoring it. We essentially chose to ignore the warnings about J6, as well. This time, the seditionists hold power in the House and can accomplish the takeover from inside the chamber. This is the most frightening development on the election front yet.
Chris, While your comment is off-topic relative to today’s LFAA, the discussion is one we can’t afford to postpone. Hence, I thank you for writing, and, though I’m no substitute for HCR, here’s my best pitch.
To start, while we have to win big up and down the ballot, our margins in the House must be large enough to make it virtually unthinkable for Mike Johnson to deny seating a sufficient number of Democrats for Republicans to hold the majority.
As an added layer of protection, our wins in the House must be sufficiently strategic so that Democrats, not Republicans, would control the majority of delegations. Said shift would render Republican shenanigans even more suspect. Here, I turn to Jerry Weiss, who writes Feathers of Hope and who recently provided me with a strategy for shifting majority control of delegations to House Democrats.
Contrary to Hartman, Weiss counts only 25 Republican majority delegations, and 2 ties (Minnesota and North Carolina). That makes MN and NC obvious targets for flipping which would produce a tie of 25 Rs and 25 Ds. Weiss notes, as the presiding officer, VP Harris would cast the tie-breaking vote. Considering it’s better to have a clear majority, Weiss suggests targeting Arizona (6R, 3D) where only 2 seats need to be flipped, and maybe Georgia (9R, 5D) where a 2-seat change would result in a tie and thus a Republican loss. Weiss notes there is one more complication. That is the need also to protect every existing Democratic majority delegation, particularly the close ones like Alaska, Michigan, Pennsylvania, and especially Virginia where 2 Democrats will be retiring.
While the discussion doesn’t end here, my objective was to offer a starting point. I hope I have been helpful.
I don't mean to sound like Pollyanna but Trump is losing it and very quickly. And it doesn't seem like a ploy to get sympathy with his upcoming juries and the justice systems.
Who among us can't remember their own wife's name (it's Melania not Mercedes) and who can't remember their kids names (Eric and Laura omitted on Friday and he even had queue cards)? More and more of what he says can't even be reported because it is gibberish. And this isn't wishful thinking on my part. Hopefully he wins enough delegates on Super Tuesday to win the nomination because the convention will be a fiasco if his dementia continues to show itself.
It's hard to believe that people are calling for Nikki Haley (or is it Nancy Pelosi) to drop out of the race when she may be the one to keep the convention going off the rails.
And how exactly will TFFG be able to run the government from a prison cell? He can pardon himself for Federal cases but not the cases in NY and GA.
Trump supporters will not abandon him even if he is on life support after a heart attack. When people are loyal enough, their brains cloud. It's the "persuadables" that might peel away...hopefully.
But you make good points. And Haley is being very strategic. That worries me a lot. I don't think Biden would lose to Trump. But I do think Haley could win. She has that veneer of being reasonable. A very dangerous subterfuge. Koch supported her for a reason.
I think the Demon Oligarchs behind Project 2025 may have it in their heads that there will be an appropriate puppet VP who can take the reins (Article 25?) and implement that project swiftly - the first 180 days are a focus. They don't care who their figurehead is. Trump is just a vehicle for the further privatization of our government.
The Bangor Daily News did a poll in ME a few months ago and 20% of the respondents believe Trump won the election in 2020. They will believe anything he tells them.
As for Hayley winning, she said she would sign a 6 week abortion ban and that she would pardon TFFG. These are pretty far-right positions that she would have to back-track on.
There is also plenty she said when TFFG was in office and she wasn't a great ambassador.
The different factions want 1) a theocracy and 2) a corporatocracy.
That could be a very formidable force to beat because there are no limits to the amount of money the greedy oligarchs with pay to get a Republican back in the WH.
Exactly, this is not just about Trump. Even if he doesn’t win, the Oligarchs won’t stop trying to take over our government. If we can keep Biden in office, increase the majority in the Senate and flip the house, we can get some legislation that may prevent them from succeeding.
Nikki's staying in is to establish a significant minority of Republicans do NOT want Trump. What more could the Dems want come November? (well lots but you get my drift)
I think she's staying in because she will be the only Republican at the convention with a significant percentage of the delegates who can root for her and because it's likely Trump will be a convicted felon by then.
How will they choose any one but her if that's the case?
Maybe Taylor Swift can give a concert in every city where Trump is giving one of his clown shoe rallies. And she can bring Biden up on stage every once in a while.
She literally has the power to bring in millions of votes for Biden.
Christopher, I can imagine, but I am a pragmatist prepared to tackle a f**ked up possibility so we increasingly can fill seats up and down the ballot with progressives eager to reform the system.
the Dem coalition is not just about progressives, by a stretch, given the degree of conservatism in the American electorate, to wit how MAGA metastasized among the traditional Republican voter base. From a long period of Dem domination in Congress from the 60s until Reagan, Republicans have successfully fought their way by means fair and foul to something akin a Mexican stand-off. I'm hoping MAGA has so overstepped itself enough Republicans and Independents will swing to provide Dems with real political power. Personally, I'd be a progressive of sorts, living in another national jurisdiction where some of the social policies progressives struggle for were won, much more handily, a few generations ago. I'd be far more concerned about a MAGA in power than Dems, whatever their stripe.
I would also note that there is currently a lawsuit working its way to Wisconsin's newly liberal Supreme Court that could redraw our heavily gerrymandered congressional maps ahead of November's elections. The current gerrymandered map gives six of the state’s eight congressional districts to Republicans, and only two are seen as competitive. A "fair" map in our purple state could result in Democrats holding a slim majority given the outrage over the Dobbs decision.
I wish Texas would get rid of gerrymandering so that my vote and those of others would count. It makes no sense for the party winning the most actual "popular" votes to lose because of the purposely drawn districts to stop truly democratic voting.
The margins could be "slim" because we are usually a purple state. Even our new state legislature maps, at least on paper, "slightly favor Republicans". My hope is that the Dobbs decision will swing large numbers of right leaning independents and even some Republicans to vote Blue.
The first case dealt with the state legislature, but the second case currently wending its way through the courts is about the Federal representative maps.
Robin, I had understood that the state legislature redistricting would go into effect by the November election. I had no idea the same could be true of congressional redistricting. Thank you for clarifying.
There are so many moving parts it’s really hard to know where to put your energy. We have to get control of the House because MIke Johnson gets his orders from trump. It’s like we’re running with two separate governments.
Mike Johnson is dangerous to the constitution and this country. He may get instructions from Trump, but his clearest instructions come from god. His party is Christian Nationalism. A reversal in women’s and human rights and separation of church and state. More than a distraction. https://wapo.st/49N4VM7
Jeri, Given my view of the past several decades, Trumpism did not occur in a vacuum. Accordingly, we’re being tested, and we all face a choice. Ultimately, mine is to work as well as I can to shape a more generous common future. Still, I expect to encounter repeated frustration and likely some failures before making significant progress toward my ultimate goals, which I expect I share with everyone on this site.
I hope I never gave the impression that the cult occurred in a vacuum. I remember Nixon's destruction derby, Lee Atwater, Reagan inviting Rupert in to reimagine our media landscape, Newt, the stealing of the election of 2000, on and on. I had hope when Obama was elected, but I saw such hatred and vitriol that it knocked that hope for a loop. Being the perpetual optimist that I have been most of my life, I had hope that after four years of cult hell, we would return to some degree of sanity. Silly me. The battle never lulls. Yes, I share goals for progress, but I have no illusions.
Jeri, To get through the day, I repeatedly tell myself that virtually all of America’s most effective historical movements met with repeated frustration and failure before making significant progress toward their goals.
True, but I know of enough instances when the good guys lost that I assume nothing. WW2 was won because of the fight but despite the sacrifices. Both are in store for us, it seems.
Sadly, so true, Obama, black and "socialist", a "foreigner" to boot, which Trump helped promote as well, "Obamacare" decisively gave rise to the Tea Party, which Americans voted into power mind you. Not like rural America is stinking rich, if you check the demographics of wealth in USA, mainly urban centred... including Fox, lol.
Agreed, perhaps before, given the intense opposition to the Civil Rights Acts, secular "intrusions" into prayers in school etc, and of course, Roe vs Wade which collectively were drawing in the Evangelical "silent majority" crowd. And if you consider the racial side of things, you might as well go back to the Civil War... not quite lol. Dems cracked up over civil rights, and the reform wing became dominant, while the conservative wing migrated to the Republicans under Goldwater? Am I close?
Barbara, thank you for your thoughts. My concerns are that Republicans have already shown their willingness to ignore the law when it suits them. Whether the Speaker is allowed to, or not, he’s already refusing to swear in Suozzi, citing “irregularities that need to be investigated”. Republicans lie, cheat and steal to win elections, because they can’t win any other way. Christian Nationalists, including Johnson, are publicly stating that their goal is to destroy democracy, in order to install an autocratic “Christian” leader. They no longer adhere to Christian values and are just criminal racists, misogynists and homophobes using a Christian cover. They think Trump will do their bidding once they get him elected. They myopically ignore the fact that he’s a liar and cheat who doesn’t honor his obligations and that, once in power, he’ll have no fealty to anyone, except other autocrats. Their plan is to delay swearing in Dems newly elected to the House, stalling the certification of the vote, thereby giving them time to implement strategies to overthrow the election. J6 on steroids, because they’ve learned from their previous mistakes. My hope is that because “possession is nine tenths of the law” the Biden administration would refuse to leave the White House and have the military prepared to suppress any further violent attempts to overthrow our government. Or that because the GOP is filled with idiots, the plan will just implode. Although I don’t think we should count on that. They’ve already managed to stack the Supreme Court. And have colluded with the Russians, including refusing to fund Ukraine’s defense against Putin. And have impeached Mayorkas and continued hearings on Biden with only fabricated evidence of wrongdoing in both cases, including false statements from a Russian operative. And repeatedly brought us to the brink of global economic disaster by refusing to pass a long-term budget without major concessions to their regressive and suppressive ideology. Among many other reprehensible things.
Chris, Your reply indisputably illustrates that the other side has shown it will do whatever is necessary to hold power. Hence, if we’re to have any hope, at the very least, of preserving the remnants of democracy not already gone missing, we have to be willing to engage in war, figuratively speaking.. The alternative I dare say is to accept there’s nothing to be done because nothing can be done.
Barbara, I’ve taken heart from comments some folks have posted. Several people who live in MAGA territory but don’t support Trump, said the Trumper’s talk about Civil War is primarily bluster and bravado. Since so many J6 insurrectionists have been jailed, their fervor has cooled. They prefer to sit on the front porch with their beer and bloviate about protecting their rights and liberties rather than putting themselves on the line. There have been no violent protests after Trump‘s indictments and convictions, and they couldn’t even find half a dozen truckers to join their convoy. They prefer the cowards way of anonymously calling SWAT teams on their perceived enemies. The few hard-core civil war proponents who are actually willing to take up arms against the government would be no match for US military might.
Chris, I sense from your comment that I might have been misunderstood. When I wrote, “We have to be willing to engage in war,” I meant figuratively. Because I sense you might have thought otherwise, I edited my comment accordingly. If I was misread, I truly am sorry.
The Congress is seated brfore January 6, and the House will lose its majority. THE IMPORTANT RACES WILL BE FOR SENATE CONTROL, and that doesn’t look hopeful.
Looks legit to me. And why does he have to be sworn in? The Republicans swore to uphold the Constitution and they all lied about that. It may be a norm to be sworn in, but fuck Mike Johnson and his Putin loving former President.
So what can Suozzi do? Just show up in the chamber and start voting ? Criminals control the House and would have him barred. Dems refuse to fight fire with fire, which is a big reason we have arrived at this point.
Everything I'm seeing is reporting he'll be sworn in tomorrow, as has been the plan since he won. What's the source for the alleged refusal to swear him in?
Republicans have already shown their willingness to ignore the law when it suits them. As pointed out above by Nancy, whether the Speaker is allowed to, or not, he’s already refusing to swear in Suozzi, citing “irregularities that need to be investigated”. Republicans lie, cheat and steal to win elections, because they can’t win any other way. Christian Nationalists, including Johnson, are publicly stating that their goal is to destroy democracy, in order to install an autocratic leader. They no longer adhere to Christian values and are just white supremacists using a Christian cover. They think Trump will do their bidding once they help him get elected. They myopically ignore the fact that he’s a liar and cheat who doesn’t honor his obligations. Once an autocrat is in power, they have no fealty to anyone.
Republicans do a lot of things they’re not “supposed to“ without consequences. Like delaying appointments in order to stack the Supreme Court with sympathizers. And participating in the insurrection attempt from inside the house. And refusing to bring a vote to the floor until enough Dems are absent. And bringing us to the brink of global economic catastrophe, by refusing to pass a long-term budget. And colluding with Russian operatives. And staging impeachments with zero evidence of crimes. The list goes on and on.
Yep, you scratched the surface. Too bad that our media is well aware of the "things they are not supposed to do," yet they somehow slip under the rug. All it takes is another "thing they are not supposed to do, and the headlines change....the possibilities are legion... Maybe we need multiple real news programs a day, one to focus on current fiascos, another to update on previous "things." This instead of the rehash every hour on the latest nonsense, which it often is. Paradigm shift necessary since chump is here to stay, even after he is gone...
One option is to do what was done in 1861. Lincoln had been elected president. He and others feared what would have been the first January 6th insurrection. A general setup soldiers so that if anyone threatened violence, they’d become cannon fodder. The 1861 electoral vote count went off without incident. Now, during an insurrection, can the army be called in?
And according to one plausible estimate I've heard (can't recall the source, sorry), there are likely about 21 million hard-core Trump supporters prepared to take up arms against the majority electorate to make America great again.
I live among hard core supporters. They’re not about to do more than pay lip service. I’m sure there are quite a few out there that would but this number is far from believable.
You're right Gail, it's lip service. Unless they are taking up arms while sitting in their recliners holding their glass of Scotch. His supporters are dying by the day. The most his supporters will do in Florida's Villages of The Damned, is have a golf cart parade. The drunk ones usually hit a car or two along the way.
Gail, I tend to think you’re right! They’ve become subdued since the J6 convictions. I’m sure there’s still a hardcore faction that are willing to put their lives on the line for their beliefs, but the military would have far superior strength. Trump supporters have grandiose delusions, especially Trump himself. Even some of the convicted insurrections said they will do it again.
Remember the RNC will have no money to promote candidates, as they have decided to be the last chance for the orange cocksplat grift. They will lose the House, and I'm thinking may well not gain the senate. Work for that
If It weren’t for the success of the American Jewish lobby and foreign influence giving Israel a green light to do whatever it has wanted, then there would have been a resolve decades ago. A two-state solution is the only one. You cannot wipe out and ethnically cleanse as Israelis have done and pretend God gave them this right just because it was done to them in Europe. It doesn’t work that way. But now that the Jack-booted Nazi-like extremist orthodox thugs control the government, it will be a long struggle to win peace.
The actions of Hamas was brilliant even though the plan necessitated losing large numbers of their population. But in the history of the human species, losing to death large numbers is acceptable.
Thank you for this important report, Professor. In an interview/discussion that aired yesterday, Malcolm Nance spoke at some length about the war, and drew the connections between Russia-Iran-Hezbollah-Hamas. It's critical for Americans to understand that Russia and Iran made the investment necessary for Hamas to pull off 10/7, and Russia is waging a social media and msm influence campaign about the conflict. Also, the Netanyahu regime is striking back to create cover because it failed to protect it's own on 10/7. Frankly, Nance sounded more in alignment with the all-out war Israel is waging than I am. Yet his comments were a reminder of how it started, and who's backing Hamas.
Separately, the Biden administration does not control the Israel state. Netanyahu would like nothing more than to stay in power and to see citizen Trump re-elected to the oval in 2024. By waging the war on Gaza as the right wingers are doing in Israel - and against the Biden administration's urgings - Netanyahu's right wingers are not only attempting to remain in power, they're boosting Trump's chances. I hope that the Biden administration's efforts toward securing release of the hostages and assisting a two-state solution prevail.
You do realize that the Hamas fighters are also still waging war in return? The way the media reports it makes it seem as if it is all one sided. And there was no war before Oct 7.
Of course. Hamas started the war. As Nance says in his discussion, if Hamas withdrew (at the bidding of its masters, Iran and Russia) the war would end. That said, had the Netanyahu regime been doing its job, 10/7 could not have happened as it did.
Re: your last sentence. I wonder? I hope it’s not true as it seems like victim blaming. Do you think the US was aware that Pearl Harbour was going to occur in advance?
The 1940s was a different era in intelligence capabilities. Coming closer in time, the US should have been better prepared for 9/11, but higher ups in the intelligence community failed to heed warnings they were getting from FBI field officers That’s fact, not victim blaming. The victims were in the hijacked jets that hit the Twin Towers, the Pentagon building, the Pennsylvania field. It’s not blaming the murder and kidnap victims of 10/7 to state the fact that had Netanyahu’s regime been keeping watch over actions taking place along its southern border, they would have been on the alert, prepared to intervene.
Annie- They still do the same thing with Afghanistan. They act like we should still be sacrificing the lives of our military personnel like we did for over 20 years. Or the $300 million a day we wasted to kill a few terrorists. We were NEVER going to defeat the Taliban in Afghanistan. If it were up to the Republicans we would still be there.
As for the MSM, they permanently attach the words "chaotic withdrawal" EVERY time they say or write "Afghanistan" Pathetic.
How and to where could Hamas withdraw? Deeper into the earth? Directly into the Mediterranean? In a negotiated march into Egypt, Jordan or Lebanon? None of these countries want them or would conceivably agree to accept them. The Negev? Isn't that also Egypt? They have two options; surrender or die.
Hamas is trained and supported by Iran and Russia, as is Hezbollah. Hamas’ leaders are settled in nicely in Qatar, their intermediary. Hamas members can disperse. Millions of Palestinians have a different plight.
Unlike Hamas, which can withdraw, Palestinian civilians are trapped between Hamas which is funded/trained by Iran/Russia and the IDF run by hardline right wingers who almost certainly will be voted out by Israeli citizens if an election is held.
An election will be held. Netanyahu and his coalition will be voted out. Israelis are sick of the conflict and sick of Netanyahu and aghast at what had been going on. Anger will take more than one generation to dissipate, but Biden's administration is trying to force Israel's hand by providing a better option.
I do not think stopping whatever flow of money is happening- and last I heard the flow is halted in Congress-would cause Hamas to release the remaining US and Israeli hostages or cause either Hamas or Hezbollah to give up on their stated objective of destroying the state of Israel.
Neither Iran nor Russia will stop funding and training Hamas and Hezbollah, if the US were to stop funding for Israel.
I support a ceasefire, one that is agreed to by all combatants. If the US is going to be held to account by influencers and the media and government bodies. so should Iran and Russia.
I know the situation in Israel is very complex but I don't know how they continue to receive money from the US when they clearly don't want to do anything the US is proposing. To me, it is like having a teenager that continues to want money from a parent but is unwilling to listen or do anything the parent is telling them to do. I KNOW this is over simplistic but why should we support them financially when they are clearly breaking international laws set down by many countries. Netanyahu is a corrupt crook just like his buddy who wants back in our White House. I don't know how Anthony Blinken keeps going!
In fact, the US is neither a parent nor an overlord to Israel. There will be Israel after Bibi and Palestine after Hamas. The long view is that the US has been Israel's closest ally since 1948 and will likely remain so into the indefinite future. Biden is doing the excruciating work of walking a line by continually calling out for the conventions of war that protect civilian lives while showing consistency in a long-standing policy of support, including munitions, for Israel. In spite of the evolving tragedy, focusing only on what is happening today is very short-sighted. The US is unfortunately in no position right now to make a sea change in policy towards Israel when half of our legislative branch of government is on a collision course with chaos. We have our own housecleaning to do before we can speak with one voice to the world.
I know that I over simplified a very complex situation. Sadly , I think President Biden is damned if he does and damned if he doesn’t. I am so glad that he trying to make good decisions in the face of all the craziness that is currently going on. Thank you for your comment, I agree.
This is the last section of a piece written in the Guardian. I found it interesting.
“Passive is not, incidentally, how many in Gaza are coming to view the organisation: there have been reports of anti-Hamas demonstrations breaking out across Gaza in recent days, as protesters make a case distilled most starkly by the analyst Ahmed Fouad Alkhatib, a native of Gaza City, who has lost a staggering 31 family members to Israeli bombs.
Now based in the US, Alkhatib’s condemnation of Hamas’s demands before they will agree to a ceasefire is worth quoting at length. Hamas, he says, “is insisting on the full reconstruction and redevelopment of Gaza to what it was before October 7. Why launch a destructive war that annihilates your people and destroys your territories only to demand that Gaza be back to what it was before you dragged Gazans along with your suicidal adventures? You could have had what you want simply by not launching a war that you knew would be disastrous.”
David Friedman, one of Trump's ambassadors to Israel, was apoplectic at the notion that the State Department would seriously think of facilitating the one thing that has been dangled like a carrot of a possible two-state resolution. It shows just how out of touch he and the folks at AIPAC are with the rest of the world's reality-based view that continuing with endless bombing is not going to bring peace.
While driving today I heard an uplifting segment on the radio about a re-flourishing of democracy in Poland, after eight or so years of right-wingnuttery and sabotage of democratic institutions. a tiny bit of hope in the midst of Eastern European darkness.
There are maybe four possibilities for the future of the portion of the Levant defined by the modern state of Israel and whatever one wants to attribute to the Palestinians (not really worth debating since it is so fluid at the moment). One is a resumption of some version of the status quo with a dominate Israel and an inferior state of Palestine. Another is the so-called two state solution. Another is the eradication of any remnant of a Palestinian state. Yet another would be a single country that is seen as a fair and multi-ethnic society by everyone who lives there, and everyone who has a reasonable claim to a right to live there.
There are actually two "one state" solutions. My view has always been that the latter one that is fair to all of its people is the only just option of the four, but it also seems to be at least as unlikely as the so-called two state solution, which always required a bit of wishful thinking and blindness to anything that was even remotely just or fair. Crafting a policy for us that deals with these options is further complicated by both domestic politics and the horrors of the early 20th century. Biden or any other president is caught between a rock and hard place on this one. It's just so very very sad.
With wall around their cities! Having lived in West Berlin while the wall was still up, I was APPALLED last April to see walls around Bethlehem and other areas of Israel where Palestinians have no passports, no freedom to travel, cannot leave or enter without express permission from Israeli guards. The propaganda here in the US has been loud and long, adding to the plight of the Palestinians. While I went for a pilgrimage, I ended up heartbroken by the hurt and sublimation of rights of the people there.
Have you visited Israel? Arab Israelis have full rights and are integrated into the economy, though they tend to live in different neighborhoods and towns. Going through a normal day, you often don't know whether you're interacting with an Arab Muslim or a Sabra Jew.
Is there complete equality? Legally and practically, yes. Socially? No. It's not apartheid.
Totally agree Jerry. Also my experience in visiting Israel. Yes there are certainly discrimination problems within the country, no different than in almost every other country in the world, but people are not physically “kept apart” which is what apartheid means.
These arguments are irrelevant and require willful blindness. Now that blindness is easy to understand, given the wellspring from which it flows. But symbols, like words matter. What if we were to replace the stars on the US flag with little Christian crosses? There are a lot of folks who would like that. Of course that would be wrong and send a terrible message to every American who has a different belief system. A just Israel cannot call itself the Jewish state and retain that star on its flag. It can retain the automatic dual citizenship policy, but it should consider extending that to people who are persecuted for their religion or ethnicity who also have religious or ethnic roots in the region. That said, it isn't going to happen because of the willful blindness. And that blindness is going to guarantee that non-Jews not yet born are going to grow up hating everything Israel stands for and some will act on that hatred. The cycle will just keep going.
Craig, they're not irrelevant. Israel allows people of all faiths to come in and become citizens. It's in Israel's constitution. As of 2023, the makeup of Israel's population by religion (CIA factbook):
The fourth option may happen after a generation or five of peaceful coexistence. Until then, a two state solution seems best, since peace is more possible with separation.
Not the lands they lost due to wars they started. Will Jews get their properties they lost throughout the Middke East and Eurooe due to actions instigated by others?
Aside from that glib - but true - response, I could add that those lands weren't exactly the Palestinians' to begin with. If you try to undo all of the 20th century, there will be no progress. Instead, start with the here and now: 2 million Arab citizens of Israel and over 6 million Arabs that could be citizens of a new Palestinian state. Jews stay where they are, excluding illegal settlements in the West Bank, secure in their present day home.
I would further add that if Jewish settlers insist on staying in the West Bank after it becomes a Palestinian state, they will become citizens of Palestine and not of Israel. I personally would not give them the choice to stay, but I'm not leading anyone.
It provides a sliver of hope that complex diplomacy can yield peace and security for millions of innocent lives trapped between murderous criminals promoting more violence, suffering, and death.
When I think of the world I dream of -there is a foundation of peace, security, and cooperation across natural or artificial, virtual or physical boundaries. Life, under various economic and political systems is challenging enough and when considering a future with a changed climate, will be even more difficult for current and future generations.
The world must evolve beyond incompetent, corrupt, authoritarian leadership. There are plenty of prisons holding people for minor drug offenses or small crimes against property -while the people who should be in prison are on the ballot instead.
The world must evolve toward societies that are well-educated, well-informed, and engaged.
It’s heartbreaking to see a war between people who have lived on this land together and cannot live in peace. I do not see how this is a genocide. Jorge Santayana wrote “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.” Yes, it’s complicated.
Muslims, Cristians and Jews lived in peace for 2,000 years in Palestine before 1917 when Britain declared that Palestine would be the homeland for the Jews even though it was 90% Palestinian Muslim at the time and was done without their input. Palestinians knew that would’ve required them losing their homeland. In 1948 their worst fears came about with mass ethnic cleansing and massacres.
Jews migrating from antisemitic European countries settled in areas purchased from Arabs by European and American donations. The first British proposition of a land division assigned land to the incoming Jews that was a fraction on the post-war 1948 borders. Arab leaders rejected that proposition and the later UN partition while accepting money for land, thinking the Arab peasants who lived there can fend for themselves. Those Arab peasants, subsistence farmers and day workers, have been pushed around by Arab "leaders" since before 1900. They are victims in this sad saga, most recently victimized by Hamas.
It’s more complicated than that, though what you say is true. I’m reading The Hundred Years’ War On Palestine, and Arab “leaders” also sold out the Palestinians for their own reasons, King Abdullah of (then) Transjordan being one of the most selfish.
Yes it is tragic. I also cannot call self-defence genocide. The allies bombed a lot of Germany to smithereens not to mention the A bombing of Japan. No mention of genocide then.
A military response to persistent rocket attacks cannot be called self defense? Let's bring this home. Let's say I am your neighbor and I let your family work in my property, and then some of them throw grenades on my property and injure and kill some of my family, I can't respond? If I respond forcefully and members of your family keep throwing explosives over, I can't go in and neutralize your family members' abilities to throw explosives? I have to wait for police support? Well, actually in the US, I do have to wait for support. Back to the situation in Gaza: In this situation, who's going to stop Hamas' rocket attacks? Who's going to dismantle their armaments used for political terror?
Israel has not occupied Gaza since they withdrew in 2006. Hamas was elected soon after. They are the de facto ruling power. No IDF was allowed to be present in Gaza.
Annie Weeks is correct. Israel unilaterally withdrew from Gaza on August 15, 2005. That included all military and civilians, even by force. The following year, Hamas was elected over the Palestinian Authority, and the terror attacks, almost weekly rocket barrages, started and have continued to this day. You don't hear much about those persistent attacks because they were mostly neutralized by the Iron Dome. The world forgot Hamas's stated mission to destroy all of Israel even though it was trying to achieve exactly that all along. Even Israel failed to watch the Gaza border as closely as it should have, which allowed the Oct 7 attack to be so successful.
Hello Anne-Louise. Good to see you, too and discuss serious issues. If only there were acceptable solutions for the challenges between Israel and Palestine. Here in HCR’s Letters we can respectfully share conversations and viewpoints. Onward.
Nitwityahoo has released his "postwar plan" - which is to jump in a time machine and go back to October 6, with nothing but opposition to anything about the Palestinians. And the settler scum in his government are agitating for new settlements in the West Bank.
Biden ought to call the other members of the Israeli government, the ones who don't like Nitwit, and tell them that for every dime they spend in the West Bank on the settlements Biden has already said are as illegal as international law has always made them, they lose a dollar from their welfare check. And if they don't get rid of Nitwit, they lose the US political umbrella at the UN and elsewhere. It's time for the Israeli tail to stop wagging the American dog. After what he ordered the IDF to do in Rafah over the weekend, Netanyahu is no better than the SS general who leveled the Warsaw Ghetto; seeing the descendants of the survivors of that doing this today is terrible.
M.E.T.O. -- Middle East Treaty Organization -- would unite several regional countries to manage Gaza.
They'd police the borders with Israel and Egypt, and govern as Netanyahu still imagines he can do -- obviously a non-starter, as he'd only let the Israeli far-right exacerbate, provoke, incite more damage.
The U.S.? Its only role seems to be to keep arming Israelis. If the U.S. were a leader, it would also try to do something positive, like begin school programs so Jewish and Arabic youth learning English could also learn essaying skills so they could begin to see each other as individuals, not just remain as units of more blind tribalism continuing to suck up all into the group hatreds.
You state that the role of the US has been only to supply weapons to Israel. It has been sending funds ($Billions) to Jordan, Egypt, and Gaza, and has repeatedly tried to broker peace. Based on today's post, there's some hope that some progress will be made, if only because the current situation is so ugly, even Middle East countries are blinking. Netanyahu has to go, though, and Hamas cannot be allowed to lead and thus hold fellow Palestinians hostage to their nihilistic mission.
You've corrected me, nicely opened things to the larger vision you so fittingly encompass.
Some part of me has gone sour. So much I see American schools could do for Americans, so much our educators could carry into the world. But as for breaking the various group-thinks, the tribalisms, the nationalist poisons, the sectarian hatreds -- we're not putting into schools anywhere the skills to see individuals instead, in the larger perspectives you yourself well see.
The U.S. should open schools in Israel? Gaza? The West Bank? I'm not exactly sure how that would work. Should the U.S. State Department rent buildings in Tel Aviv and staff it with American teachers, with or without permission of the Israeli government? In Rafah? Bethlehem? Hmm...
I'm thinking, use the Fulbright program. Use the Peace Corps.
It will require training of instructors who value the personal in people, who understand how almost everybody in the world has already learned submission to group habits, readiness to kneel to the perversities of machine-gradable standardized testers, and vocabularies full of abstractions, slogans, labels, yet empty of active verbs.
Instructors should radiate love of humanities in one's own culture and more love of humanities in other languages, other cuisines, other cultures.
Life bounces us in difficulties, in the nuances of nature, in the vulgarities of the rich who kill everywhere.
We need to find instructors brave, free enough, in love enough, and odd enough to keep cherishing what one poet once called "that still, small voice."
We also need some government or governments still predicated on law, law which respects individuals, and which stands upon those humanities that have come before us, that have given us grammars, models, details we can exultantly see, note, and love in others.
Your description fits perfectly for a Gazan university professor I met in the US about thirty years ago. He was in DC at American or Georgetown on a Fulbright for a year. He went back to Gaza and taught students to think, weigh both sides of issues, etc. He was fired by Hamas, for not teaching their line. I think he was able to get reinstated. He and his wife could have left Gaza, their children did, I know one at least is in Sweden. But he and his wife did good things for their neighborhood, ran a kindergarten they started, etc. and remained to help their people. This kind, intelligent, caring man was killed in his car while seeking water early in the Israeli bombing. I just asked my niece this morning about his wife, and she said his wife is in Rafah. Relatives and friends are required to pay a lot of money to get her safely out of Gaza and into Egypt. She may get out safely. Most probably don't have the option of that kind of money. So Phil, that kind of instructor already existed but he was killed.
Shortly after Oct. 7 I also saw a video of an Israeli counterpart to your Gaza professor.
This Israeli in public asked that all not see every Gazan as continuing replica of the Hamas fanatics, but Israeli authorities arrested him, as you say, "for not teaching their line."
The U.S. Supreme Court just ruled that it is doing for Trump just as Netanyahu was trying to get rid of the Israeli courts so he could be the dictator -- for the far right, for the settlers stealing West Bank land -- just as Trump aims to elevate himself for the far right, for the billionaire classes in the U.S.
The situation in Gaza is all the more reason to vote for Biden. I may be wrong but isn’t he the first US president to call for a two state solution. That takes tremendous political courage. Remember the Jared Kushner “Peace Plan “ under Trump where he only discussed with Netanyahu and did not include the Palestinians saying (and I paraphrase “this is just about real estate” ( perhaps the most moronic statement ever). Basically they proposed the world’s largest concentration camp.
As Tereresafbrooks noted above the Malcom Nance article of the Russian Iran Hezbollah Hamas coalition I would not be surprised if Trump was part of this also to cause chaos for the Biden administration. Thank you Joyce.
US politicians always trot out the good old two state solution every time Israel commits an atrocity. As soon as things calm down it’s stopped. This call is very typical.
For most of us, it is impossible to understand what is happening in the Middle East, but it is clear to me that the one thing that must happen is the departure of Netanhayu.
Good news about Sweden joining NATO - now we need to defeat the Putin / Republicans
Sweden joins the fold yes.
The state of mind of the pro-Rissia thinkers currently is that the EU is on the cusp of breaking up and NATO is the aggressor, a cynical tool for US imperialist intentions, the rest are weak puppets.
This is clearly delusional.
The EU is stronger after the (uncomfortably close) Polish election. This leaves Orban alone and isolated and allows movement towards a strong Germany, France, Poland axis. It's great to see Polish statesmen of consequence on the world stage.
And NATO,..... I ask them what they think NATO wpuld do if the US pulls out of that peaceful alliance. NATO would live on without its strongest partner, be sure of that.
Hungary should be expelled from the EU and NATO till they get a government worthy of the name.
Better to pressure Hungary and Turkey than expel them.
Under your purity test even the USA is suspect. Certainly Poland would have been, until now. And they've really been a good neighbor to Ukraine and a good partner.
Poland has accepted so many Ukrainian refugees.
And remains such a vital staging port for the fight against Russia. Poland really stepped up to defend Ukraine, for which applause, sweet applause.
They knew they would be next.
I have been wishing this too. However, in its location it should not want to leave NATO since in a conflict with Russia, it would be surrounded by NATO states. Also, it is like Texas. They defy our constitution but we are not asking them to secede even though there is a contingent that wants it. A close friend lives there. It is where her husband is from and his mom needs them close. So, all the good people of Texas would be thrown out with the bad. It is really annoying that Hungary was allowed this leverage on Sweden's acceptance into NATO though. I think they need to have voting that does not require unanimity. It is very Quaker, but is NATO Quaker? Maybe there could be a threshold. The reason there isn't is because powerful countries like the USA and Germany don't want to be on the receiving end of a no from everyone else.
Linda, Your point on TX makes me want to raise an issue that has gotten pushed to the back due to the political ones now front and center.
Climate change is real and we are just beginning to see the edges of what's to come. TX and all of the Gulf & southern states are going to bear the brunt of much of it. From the rise of heat, humidity & sea levels (along the coasts) to significant loss of farmland (and resultant livestock) TX & FL in particular would surely struggle greatly if secession were to occur as threatened. Nature doesn't choose who is good or bad when the pymt for our treatment of the land comes due. Everyone is treated the same and these states will be in much greater need of money and resources than those in the northern latitudes. It will be interesting to see how "independent" they are then. See link below.
https://projects.propublica.org/climate-migration/
I think the bigger point is that the first time we either throw a state out of the Union or let one secede, we have at that moment surrendered the Union to politics. When one goes, that starts a parade of seceding states, each leaving for political issues that would resolve over time.
Demographers point to a time in the next 50 years when Texas will inevitably be a blue state. If you think that’s ridiculous, realize that California voted Rupublican in 1968, giving Nixon the White House. Texas voted for Hubert Humphrey, the Democrat.
People seem to want to either allow or force secession over … annoyance? Because they have a very bad governor? We re-elect governors and legislatures regularly, and before the popularity of the Bush family it was a reliably blue state.
I moved to Texas in 1982 with my then husband to start a new business. I watched the state go from being a pretty good place to live, to an absolute horror! There are so many uneducated and ignorant people there, who are ripe for a monster like trump to use and abuse.
I truly do not believe that Texas will be taken back to a non delusional state for decades.
Talking about breaking up the Union is what the White Nationalists WANT. It’s what they tried back in that time … oh, you remember … what we called The Civil War.
It isn’t on the table {though from time to time, I talk about Vermont, where I live, joining Canada — but I’m KIDDING!}
Really, though — most seriously, Balkanizing the US {look up the word} would not result in a lot of little countries that can survive. Right now, it’s clear the reddest of our states have trouble keeping their heads above water financially {and in Florida, Miami is struggling with REAL water …}. They don’t really want to go it alone. Without help from Blue states, they’d starve.
Tom, speaking of California, it went through a phase where radical Republicans in the state legislature made the state essentially ungovernable. The Republicans eventually so alienated a sizable chunk of voters that their party became highly unpopular, which is why California is such a blue state now. Well, for the time being, anyway. But my point is that the claim that everything happens in California first is something I'm counting on to hold true.
I could also argue that the change was within the political parties more than the Texas voters, but I agree that letting Texas secede would start others giving serious thought to what are now just ideas. I would support Cascadia: Oregon, Washington, BC, and northern California!
Your comment about the probably impacts of climate change on Texas reminded me of the Smokehouse Creek fire (near Amarillo) which has now surpassed 850,000 acres and is the second largest fire in Texas history and is closing in on becoming the largest, more than 900,000 acres in March 2006. Gifted article. https://wapo.st/3SVtVdk
I wonder how they would feel without social security and Medicare and infrastructure and of course FEMA.
My 1st impulsive thought is that unanimity is crucial because one nation can always be stupid enough to start a war on its own. It would be better to shift puzzle pieces a bit, not enough to dismantle the puzzle, to fit a new piece in.
Might be crucial, but is difficult to get things done, and the more members the harder it will be.
True. But wasn't Sweden the last piece to fit in? Nato is now stronger than ever and might need US presence less, once the Eropean war is over.
What's happening in Hungary is - as Hungarian friends have told me they are doing - the "good ones" are leaving to live in other EU counties where as one of them said to me, "We don't have to put up with this miserable insanity."
I was born in Texas, spent the first 20 years of my life there. My family were among the first white settlors. I had an uncle who died at the Alamo. Three of my great-great grandfathers fought in that conflict for independence from Mexico so that they could keep slaves. I have family all over the state and some cousins support Texit, re-establishing the Republic of Texas. Others are firm Democrats. White Nationalism is a disease that infects the brain.
...Keep your enemies closer...
We’re lucky NATO didn’t feel that way while Trump was president.
I don’t get this “throw them out” sentiment over what may be the transient issue of Orban (or Trump). The idea of NATO is stronger and more enduring that impermanent political issues.
Lots of sensible, intelligent replies here to TCinLA’s comment, which I hope he reads and considers, which I did. My first reaction was to agree, until I read them. Thank you, LFAA Community.
I just can't agree with expulsion; Perhaps some reduction in voting weight or perhaps restrictions on self serving so blatantly in the rules. There were lots of times that France for instance drew ire for leaning towards the USSR, yet one could not fathom NATO without them. I can actually recall periods of time when it was quite common to hear really vicious passive / aggressive jokes going around about France. I'm no scholar regarding NATO rules, etc.; diplomats will have to suss it all out to serve the greater good.
I’m grateful for this comment. Truly I am. I subscribe to Obama’s view of the US becoming one among equals. It also gags me that Putin, Trump, and Netanyahu are all promoting chaos and destruction to keep themselves out of jail.
A common thread that I am starting to believe is well coordinated. In support of your position please don’t forget that Obama was building nations with great results and Trump just dumped all the work done and scrapped the plan. We were reuniting with Cuba, the Trans Pacific Partnership (TPP) had 119 pacific rim countries agreeing to speak as one when dealing with China. Both were well thought out plans for the future, Trump scrapped it all on a whim.
He also scrapped the Paris Climate Accord, the Iran nuclear treaty and started a trade war with China, ALL of which were disastrous for not just the US but the planet. The thread between the ones you mention and these is he did it because someone else had created a better plan than him and he couldn't take it. He had to blow it up just because he could.
His overwhelming narcissism and grandiosity require him to do stupid things like meeting with Kim Jong Un or even physically pushing world leaders aside all of which embarrassed not just him but the US on the world stage.
He could actually keep himself out of prison right now by negotiating with prosecutors to let him off of all his criminal trials in exchange for stepping aside from any political office,....ever + returning the Top Secret docs he stole. But, his severe narcissism and vanity won't even let him do that.
Thank you BK, I’m sure there are others also. He set us back in so many ways. He is no doubt the epitome as an example of eing uselesd except to serve a a pitiful example.
Now if the US would quit playing games and get off their butts, things would be so much better. Right now I can see the US under trump (if we stay in) play the role of Hungary.
And NATO members would be under no obligation to help US (that spells us) as they did on 9/11
We must procedurally outwit Leonard Leo's legislative MiniMe clerical fascist Mike Johnson and the Putin fanboy MAGA crew. This will take a coalition for the discharge petition. Including getting House Progressives on board for the supplemental aid package which includes aid to Israel. I oppose this aid to the criminal Netanyahu regime. But as we must get aid to Ukraine, I want the supplemental passed and then a major effort to enforce Biden's new National Security Memorandum which prohibits delivery of appropriated funds to allies who are in violation of international law - ie Israel under the Netanyahu regime.
lin, “Box Bibi”
I wish someone would explain the discharge petition sounds like another stupid set of cumbersome procedures to treat congressional constipation
Please do not be so casually dismissive of the protocols and procedures of government. These are the institutions which have been developed, preserved, and reformed for good reasons. (The MAGA House is what you get when they are destroyed.)
In short: A discharge petition is a mechanism by which a majority can overcome the obstructionism of a minority.
"In United States parliamentary procedure, a discharge petition is a means of bringing a bill out of committee and to the floor for consideration without a report from the committee by "discharging" the committee from further consideration of a bill or resolution.[1] The signatures of an absolute majority of House members are required."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discharge_petition
https://indivisible.org/resource/legislative-process-101-discharge-petitions
TY
Then way hasn't it been used?
It requires an absolute majority of House members. A coalition is being built. We know the bad influence of the MAGAs, but Bernie Sanders set a bad example in the Senate by purity testing the supplemental and his example might have a bad influence on House progressives.
Oy vey! We keep shooting ourselves in the foot!
Mike Johnson sent everybody scurrying away with a recess. Pretty hard to use it when not one is present and accounted for. There should be a rule that a majority of members can continue to do necessary government business when the Speaker is that negligent
In Oregon we had republicons walk outs last year, plenty of them. They can only be gone so many days in a session and there were many days. The law is after so many they cannot run for office. It is in the works here in Oregon to bounce them, hope it happens
Discharge petition
Oops! Yikes! Yup!
*Discharge Petition*
Thanks!
I oppose it also, lin. Johnson’s johnson needs to either be strangled or whacked off. Leo should be imprisoned but then he’s not alone as there are so many of these evildoers.
'A Biden Ally Wades Into the Divide Over Gaza and Emerges With a Warning'
'After days of meetings with disaffected Democrats in Michigan, Representative Ro Khanna says President Biden cannot win the state without changes to his Middle East policy.' (NYTimes, excerpts)
'Representative Ro Khanna of California last week assumed the unofficial role as mediator between Democrats disaffected by Mr. Biden’s Middle East policies and Biden allies like himself. He met with students, Arab American leaders and progressive voters, many of whom said they were, at least for now, withholding their support from Mr. Biden.'
'He was blunt about his takeaway.'
“We cannot win Michigan with status quo policy,” Mr. Khanna, who has pushed for a cease-fire, said in an interview, adding that a shift should come in “a matter of weeks, not months.”
“Every day that goes by where we’re seeing the bombing of women and children on social media or cable news is not a good day for our party,” 'he said.'
'Mr. Khanna’s assessment is the latest warning sign for Mr. Biden about a swing state he won narrowly in 2020. The state is home to a large and increasingly discontent Arab American community, whose leaders have been pressing the White House for months to call for a cease-fire in a war that has left some 29,000 people dead in Gaza since Hamas attacked Israel on Oct. 7. In recent weeks, activists have begun urging Democrats to register their anger by marking their primary ballots as “uncommitted” rather than voting for Mr. Biden.'
'Mr. Biden last campaigned in the state at the beginning of this month, when he spoke to members of the United Auto Workers union in Warren, Mich., and faced protests from some pro-Palestinian activists. Vice President Kamala Harris also faced protesters last week when she came to discuss abortion policy at a round table in Grand Rapids, Mich., far from the Detroit metropolitan area where much of the war-related discontent is centered.'
'Mr. Khanna fielded questions about the war from students at the University of Michigan. He attended a rally on getting corporate money out of politics alongside Representative Rashida Tlaib of Michigan, the sole member of Michigan’s congressional delegation backing the “uncommitted” efforts. And he met with elected and community leaders withholding their support for Mr. Biden.'
'In public remarks and private conversations, Mr. Khanna said that Democrats needed to better acknowledge the party’s shifting base and the concerns about the conflict, pointing to Michigan’s substantial young, Black and Arab American electorates.'
'But whether he can actually push the president to shift his policy on the war is unclear. Mr. Biden has not called for a permanent cease-fire, even as he has said that Israel should do more to prevent civilian casualties.'
'On Friday, Mr. Biden’s administration reversed Trump-era policy on settlements in the occupied West Bank when Secretary of State Antony J. Blinken called new settlements “inconsistent with international law.” That may not be enough to appease his detractors in Michigan, who said at rallies over the weekend that rebuilding ties with the administration would at least require a permanent cease-fire.'
“There has to be some change in policy, and then once we get the change in policy, then there’s got to be some time for healing,”' Mr. Khanna acknowledged in a conversation with Mika’il Stewart Saadiq, an imam in Detroit, who backed Mr. Biden ahead of the 2020 primary but planned to vote “uncommitted” on Tuesday.'
“You have to give us something to campaign for,” Mr. Saadiq told Mr. Khanna, pointing to a cease-fire call and recognition of a Palestinian state. Otherwise, he added, “we’re in trouble.”
'During meetings, Mr. Khanna peppered attendees with questions about what they wanted out of the White House, and what it would take to ensure Mr. Biden won Michigan. He met with leaders including Mayor Abdullah Hammoud of Dearborn, who refused a meeting with Mr. Biden’s campaign manager last month.'
'Former Representative Andy Levin of Michigan, another supporter of the' “uncommitted” effort, saw a similarly grim picture for Democrats, The Associated Press reported, telling Mr. Khanna that if the election were tomorrow, “it would be a disaster for Democrats.”
'Mr. Khanna is not supporting the movement to vote “uncommitted” — he said that if he were a Michigan resident, he would vote for Mr. Biden. And he is not among those who say the campaign is only teeing up former President Donald J. Trump for a victory in the state, as the state’s governor, Gretchen Whitmer, has suggested in recent days.
'Mr. Trump won Michigan in 2016 by over 10,000 votes, the amount of support that backers of the “uncommitted” effort say they are aiming to receive on Tuesday.'
“I have admiration for people who are using their rights as an American citizen to cast a ballot in a way that they think will bring a policy change,” 'Mr. Khanna said.'
'Supporters of the “uncommitted” campaign reject the notion that they are helping to elect a former president who campaigned on anti-Muslim rhetoric.'
“It’s incredibly disrespectful when people say the communities that have felt the impact of Donald Trump more than anyone else don’t understand the danger of Donald Trump — it’s actually the inverse,” Abraham Aiyash, the Democratic majority leader in the Michigan House of Representatives, said after speaking with Mr. Khanna and another state representative, Ranjeev Puri.'
“We absolutely understand it,” he continued, “and I think the question then becomes for the White House, if a community is telling you, ‘We know how dangerous Donald Trump is, but what you are doing in this moment is an abject moral failure,’ then that has to resonate in some capacity.” (NYTimes ByBy Anjali Huynh, Reported from Detroit and Dearborn, Mich.) See link below. Sorry it could not be gifted.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/26/us/politics/michigan-ro-khanna-biden-election.html?searchResultPosition=1
From those opposing Biden’s Middle East efforts, I’d like to know what alternative they propose, in detail. Is a “cease fire” that different from a “temporary cease fire?” Every cease fire is temporary in that it lasts until someone on either side breaks it.
I’ve heard no other specific demands. Are disaffected Democrats asking for Hamas facilities (tunnels or others) to be left in place? Biden has opposed West Bank settlements.
Probably, they’d like Biden to cutoff arms sales to Israel, or at least threaten to. But disaffected Dems must realize that Biden is corned. If he cuts off arms, he’ll lose many Jewish and non-Jewish supporters, and he’ll weaken the democracy’s strongest counterbalance to Iran.
I support Israel and despise Netanyahu. He has become Israel’s worst enemy, an Israeli version of Trump. But he is very smart. Netanyahu knows he has Biden trapped. With the US election 8 months away, Biden can not threaten to cutoff arms.
So my question: What policies do disaffected Democrats propose?
To not vote for Biden is of course dangerous this election year. The disaffected folk do not realize how extraordinarily complicated this part of the country is. I am both Israel (without Netanyahu) and Palestinian supportive.
Thank you. I believe most reasonable people are pro Israel and pro Palestinian rights. And we can be very pro Israel and be very anti Netanyahu - the same way we are very pro America and anti Trump.
Our choice in America on November 5th is completely binary. It's more than a dangerous choice. There is no reasonable middle ground. There is only democracy with Biden or Project 2025 and fascism with Trump.
I could give us a list of what I disagree with relative to US policy and Joe Biden. But the horrors of another Trump presidency are so obviously insane, there is no contest. To abandon a flawed Biden and a Democratic Party that believes in the rule of law - domestically and internationally is to invite a descent to Hell of Earth.
From Wiki:
"The plan proposes slashing U.S. Department of Justice (DOJ) funding, dismantling the FBI and the Department of Homeland Security, gutting environmental and climate change regulations to favor fossil fuel production, and eliminating the cabinet Departments of Education and Commerce."
Project 2025 also advocates firing most of the career employees of the Federal government and replacing them with Trump loyalists. Anyone remember Trump's cabinet of flunkies? Carson, DeVos et al? This would be incompetence on steroids and we would be viewed as worse than a "banana republic". We would lose all our international credibility and be a major contributor to the Climate Catastrophe.
That and much more horror like a national ban on abortion and perhaps restrictions on birth control will be the results of not supporting and voting for Biden/Harris.
There are many reasons to be upset and protest the situation in Gaza. But the alternative to Biden/Harris is the complete collapse of everything we hold dear in this experiment in democracy. Did I mention privatizing Social Security and Medicare? Anyone else remember their retirement portfolio dropping by about 40% in 2008? Yeah, let's just hand our financial future to Wall Street. All this and much more is part of Project 2025. A threat greater than anything else going on in the world. It's a binary choice. Democracy under Biden or Fascism under Trump.
One of the things that death star has promised is massive deportation. Everyone may think that applies only to people who have crossed our southern border, but it is also likely to apply to anyone who is Muslim. I too am unhappy with Bibi and his far right coalition, but potentially allowing death star to win is counterproductive and will end the US as a democracy, turning it into a white nationalist theocratic dictatorship. Bill above describes this as a descent to hell on earth and he is spot on
With all the options that you mentioned Bill, attempts to influence Biden by voting uncommitted on the primary ballot in Michigan, for example, with reference to mortality, health, education and rights of Palestinians and Arabs in Gaza, The West Bank, etc. was not mentioned. Protesting a Biden policy doesn't mean when it comes to the presidential election you would vote for Trump. Work to influence the president is part of our role as citizens. Many would like see much more accomplished about Climate Change, and there other important issues for his administration to review and update. Respecting and supporting Biden does not mean, in my opinion, accepting everything he does and doesn't do. Voicing our concerns and working to influence policy doesn't mean voting for Trump.
Bill Alstrom,
Excellently reasoned and written.
Agreed, and they don’t realize how they’re being played by pro-Trump and anti-US media (Russian, Iranian, etc).
I believe they know exactly what their doing. They want some peace for the Palestinian people and their only power is in their vote.
Heather, I think most people want peace for the Palestinians and Israelis. That includes stopping of settlements in the West Bank. But how do we get there? What could Biden do to make it happen…considering the risk that some choices could put Trump back in the Whitehouse, which is less likely to bring peace.
The issue is extremely painful for the Arab/Muslim/ Palestinian folks as well as the Jewish folks. It is raw.
I also find it scary that they want Biden to act as a dictator. There are years of policy and protocol for dealing with long-standing allies. Trump (and Netanyahu) of course ignore all factors but their own ambitious whims, as do all authoritarians.
Stanley, what I think these disaffected voters are missing is this, a cease fire inly allows Hamas time to breathe and then rebuild its strength to attack again. Biden’s efforts squeeze Hamas out of Gaza and replaces it with a New Palestinian Authority
Neither Hamas nor Netanyahu want that
Seems like most of the rest of the globe do
Smart as we like to think we all are, I would guess if any of us actually knew all the issues that Biden and his team were dealing with Israel and Paledtine, we would be genuinely shocked at the depth of detail, the interlocking issues, the number of countries involved.
I think Biden has an attitude toward his work that is of great value and effectiveness, but can shortchange him politically. That is, he works hard behind the scenes. That’s because he’s learned that it works much better. The country is used to the clowning Trump, playing for the cheap seats. Before that we had the political star Obama, who could and did speak eloquently on every issue. But Biden has pulled more rabbits out of his hat—both legislatively and diplomatically—in three years than either of those two in their whole terms.
I wish Biden could be this effective AND get credit for it. But I’m sure he would rather have the former, even if he sacrifices the latter.
🤩🤩 very well said! Thank you!! I can understand the young man lighting himself on fire as that is how painful it is to watch so many thousands especially children murdered. Putin, Hamas and Netanyahu are the murderers! Trump will enable Netanyahu to wipe the Palestinians off the map. If you want to help Palestinians, then get your asses in gear and do everything you can to keep Trump from another 4 years in the Oval Office. It is not rocket science!!
Tom, in today’s world of Fox Reality, NYT bull crap, WP bothsiderism and NPR going out to lunch looking for a safe meal ticket, even if Christ endorsed him, there’d be no recognition
Well, not the point I was trying to make. I was talking about his personal leadership style, not the media.
I don’t argue about the media any more. Because they can’t be reformed except from within, snd because they are increasingly irrelevant. 90% of the readership of the NYT is Democratic (their statistic), and 95% of Fox viewers are either MAGA or non-voters. So neither is really in the persuasion business, they’ve in the affirming business.
This.
'disaffected voters': Some of the voters in Michigan who check 'uncommitted' on their ballots are making their voices heard. It does not provide information about how many such votes of that nature will be cast; how Biden will respond or what those people's decisions will be concerning the presidential election. You also did not address the deaths and inhuman conditions now endured by the Gazans or in The West Bank. There have been no agreements with reference to how Gaza will be governed. Your incomplete comment appears to favor the status quo and give no consideration of other points of view and no real indication of what 'disaffected voters' are missing, Dave.
Well, they are still disaffected. They have a duty to themselves to vote their conscience, however in a binary world, their vote that diminishes Biden is support for Trump in the current moment
My “not addressing” the Gaza atrocity or the West Bank, here, doesn’t mean I haven’t addressed it elsewhere
The lack of a final agreement “now” doesn’t mean that Biden is not working on a more permanent solution “now”
My incomplete statement is based on not being privy to Blinken’s negotiations with the leaders of the surrounding countries working toward a two state solution. I do “know” that this occurring now. For me, status quo is Netanyahu and Hamas are both against a two state solution, yet “to me” without that, Bibi bombs Gaza and Hamas terrorizes Israel a month from now, a year from now forever; that’s status quo as well
What is your point of view? I see no indication of that here. Do you favor a temporary cease fire? Continued tensions via Hamas or the Israeli Settlers?
Imo, disaffected voters want Israel to be abandoned by Biden or else. Nothing less, and they are using their vote to demonstrate their “or else”. They know that’s not possible for Biden to do. It’s also my opinion that they believe Biden is responsible for Netanyahu. He’s not. I believe Biden is attempting to pressure him into a corner, that eventually creates a Palestinian State
What these voters are missing is the longer term solution in favor of immediate temporary relief. Thats a repeating cycle. Biden’s working toward a sea change
You may not agree with my considerations but that doesn’t mean I haven’t considered them
What binary BS, long and useless.
Jan 31, 2024 -
World
'Scoop: State Department reviewing options for possible recognition of Palestinian state' (Axios)
'Secretary of State Tony Blinken asked the State Department to conduct a review and present policy options on possible U.S. and international recognition of a Palestinian state after the war in Gaza, two U.S. officials briefed on the issue told Axios.'
'Why it matters: While U.S. officials say there has been no policy change, the fact the State Department is even considering such options signals a shift in thinking within the Biden administration on possible Palestinian statehood recognition, which is highly sensitive both internationally and domestically.'
'For decades, U.S. policy has been to oppose the recognition of Palestine as a state both bilaterally and in UN institutions and to stress Palestinian statehood should only be achieved through direct negotiations between Israel and the Palestinian Authority.
Yes but: Efforts to find a diplomatic way out of the war in Gaza has opened the door for rethinking a lot of old U.S. paradigms and policies, a senior U.S. official said.'
'The Biden administration is linking possible normalization between Israel and Saudi Arabia to the creation of a pathway for the establishment of a Palestinian state as part of its post-war strategy. This initiative is based on the administration's efforts prior to Oct. 7 to negotiate a mega-deal with Saudi Arabia that included a peace agreement between the kingdom and Israel.'
'Saudi officials have publicly and privately made clear since Oct. 7 that any potential normalization agreement with Israel would be conditioned on the creation of an "irrevocable" pathway toward a Palestinian state.'
'Some inside the Biden administration are now thinking recognition of a Palestinian state should possibly be the first step in negotiations to resolve the Israeli-Palestinian conflict instead of the last, the senior U.S. official said.'
'There are several options for U.S. action on this issue, including:'
'Bilaterally recognizing the state of Palestine.'
'Not using its veto to block the UN Security Council from admitting Palestine as a full UN member state.'
'Encouraging other countries to recognize Palestine.'
'State of play: U.S. officials said the review of options regarding the recognition of a Palestinian state is one of several issues Blinken asked the State Department to look at.'
'Blinken also asked for a review of what a demilitarized Palestinian state would look like based on other models from around the world, the two U.S. officials said.'
'The idea of a demilitarized Palestinian state is something Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu proposed several times between 2009 and 2015, but hasn't referred to it in recent years.'
'The purpose of such a review is to look at options for how a two-state solution can be implemented in a way that assures security for Israel, a U.S. official said.'
'What they're saying: The U.S. official said the White House is aware of the two reviews.'
'The official stressed Blinken hasn't signed off on any new policy and the State Department is in the process of coming up with a big menu of options.'
'A White House National Security Council spokesperson said it' "has been long-standing U.S. policy that any recognition of a Palestinian state must come through direct negotiations between the parties rather than through unilateral recognition at the UN. That policy has not changed."
'The State Department declined to comment.'
'Flashback: The State Department under the Obama administration did look at the issue of recognition of a Palestinian state, including after the Palestinian Authority sought recognition as a full member state at the UN in 2011.'
'At the time, the State Department prepared a substantial paper on the issue but it wasn't discussed inside the administration as a serious option, according to an official briefed on the paper.'
'The UN General Assembly accepted Palestine as an observer state in 2012 but did not give it full membership.'
'Zoom out: British Foreign Minister David Cameron said on Monday the U.K. is considering recognition of Palestine as part of its plans for the day after the war in Gaza and as a way to give the Palestinians a political horizon.'
"We — with allies — will look at the issue of recognizing a Palestinian state, including at the United Nations … that could be one of the things that helps to make this process irreversible," 'he said.'
'Reality check: Netanyahu, who has long opposed a two-state solution, has recently rejected calls for Palestinian sovereignty and Israel is vehemently against any recognition of a Palestinian state by individual countries or at the UN.'
'Netanyahu's government includes ultranationalists who oppose even small overtures to the Palestinians. U.S. officials have admitted it's extremely unlikely they'd agree to a path toward a future Palestinian state.'
'What to watch: Blinken is expected to meet with Israeli Minister for Strategic Affairs Ron Dermer later Wednesday and discuss the situation in Gaza, plans for the day after the war and the possibility of normalization with Saudi Arabia.' (Axios)
'Netanyahu’s ‘day after’ plan for Gaza is unviable'
'At the end of last week, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu finally did what critics have long demanded. He issued a proposal to his war cabinet outlining a vision for a postwar future for the Gaza Strip. But Netanyahu’s hard-line vision, which includes Israel maintaining indefinite military control over the territory, was panned by analysts as a bid to kick the can down the road and restore an untenable status quo.'
'The plan, circulated early Friday, is “largely a collection of principles the premier has been vocalizing since the beginning of the war,” noted Jacob Magid of the Times of Israel, “but it was the first time they have been formally presented and submitted to the cabinet for approval.” My colleagues outlined some of its core points:'
'Israel’s military will stay in Gaza as long as it takes to demilitarize the enclave, eliminate Hamas and keep it from regrouping.
Israel will assume greater control of Gaza’s southern border, in cooperation with Egypt “as much as possible,” and will carve out border buffer zones to prevent smuggling and further attacks.'
'The United Nations’ primary aid agency in Gaza and the West Bank would be disbanded and replaced. Israel accuses the U.N. Relief and Works Agency, or UNRWA, of complicity with Hamas and fostering hatred of Jews.'
'The proposal rejects any permanent agreement with “the Palestinians” that is not achieved through direct negotiations with Israel, as well as any “unilateral” Palestinian state.
'The world confronts Israel over its occupation of Palestinian lands'
'Much of this flies in the face of the stated expectations of the United States, European and Arab governments. The Biden administration has repeatedly stressed that Israel should not maintain an indefinite occupation of Gaza and wants to see the Palestinian Authority assume responsibilities there. Egypt has rejected any Israeli role on its border with Gaza. UNRWA is a vital institution for the delivery of services to millions of Palestinians, especially in Gaza, and, for all the controversy surrounding some of its employees, would be difficult to replace.'
'In the West Bank, Palestinian Authority officials rejected Netanyahu’s approach. “The plans proposed by Netanyahu are aimed at continuing Israel’s occupation of the Palestinian territories and preventing the establishment of a Palestinian state,” said Nabil Abu Rudeineh, a spokesman for authority President Mahmoud Abbas.' “Israel will not succeed in its attempts to change the geographical and demographic reality in the Gaza Strip.”
'On Monday, the Palestinian Authority’s prime minister presented the resignation of the beleaguered entity’s entire government, as the United States and other governments look to it to reform and pick up the slack after the fighting eventually stops. The PA is deeply unpopular among Palestinians for its role as handmaiden to Israel’s occupation, as well as the alleged corruption of its entrenched political elites. But it’s the only game in town.'
“The move follows months of intense deliberations between Ramallah, Washington and Arab states, on how best to boost the legitimacy and efficiency of the Palestinian Authority so it can be part of a postwar solution in Gaza,” my colleagues reported.'
'They added: “The consensus has converged on a vision for an empowered prime minister role and government of technocrats, with a curb on some of the absolute unchecked power that have accumulated around 88-year-old Abbas, according to U.S. and Palestinian officials.”
'Whatever emerges there, Netanyahu has signaled a blanket rejection of any solutions that empower the Palestinians. He is opposed to the PA taking over in Gaza, opposed to any talk of reconstruction in Gaza without an amorphous program of “deradicalization” in the territory and opposed to any discussion of Palestinian statehood in the aftermath of the conflict.'
'On all these fronts, Netanyahu can justifiably argue that he’s in line with Israeli public opinion. But his positions are at odds with those of the United States, European partners and Israel’s Arab neighbors. Wealthy states like the United Arab Emirates and Saudi Arabia tethered potential investment in Gaza’s reconstruction to the revival of a political track that would lead to the creation of an independent Palestinian state. The Biden administration also wants to boost prospects for a two-state solution that Netanyahu has spent decades undermining.'
'Netanyahu’s proposal, argued Alon Pinkas, a former senior Israeli diplomat, is “consistent” with Netanyahu’s record of “manipulation and gaslighting.” 'His' “day after” 'plan, Pinkas concluded,' “is effectively a negation of the Biden plan, a list of statements that constitute open-ended Israeli control of Gaza with no political silver lining.”
'In that sense, it’s also a bid to return Israel to Oct. 6 — a febrile status quo where Israel maintained control over the lives of millions of Palestinians either under occupation or economic embargo.' “Netanyahu’s plan for the day after is that there is no plan for the day after,” 'wrote Haaretz’s Noa Landau.' “Under Netanyahu, Israelis and Palestinians are destined, like in the movie ‘Groundhog Day,'’ to wake up yesterday morning. He wants what he always wanted: to manage the conflict without ever solving it.”
'As Israel corners Rafah, Netanyahu defies the world'
'Netanyahu, facing record low approval ratings, may simply be trying to buy time, staving off Biden administration pressure while keeping hold of the motley right-wing coalition that helps him stay in power.' “The plan is not enforceable, it’s not implementable and I don’t think it’s going to happen,”' Nomi Bar-Yaacov, associate fellow at Britain’s Chatham House think tank, told the BBC.' “Netanyahu is talking to his right-wing coalition.”
'He is not simply talking to it. Over the weekend, Israel’s government announced plans to expand settlements in the West Bank, even after the Biden administration deemed Israel’s West Bank settlements' “inconsistent with international law” — 'a reversal of a Trump-era policy siding with the settlers.'
'The expansion of settlements, which carve up the West Bank’s with segregated roads and other civilian infrastructure, is seen as a major stumbling block for the emergence of any viable Palestinian state. It’s one of the reasons numerous experts are skeptical about the revived chatter regarding a two-state solution.'
“The principal effect of talking again about two states is to mask a one-state reality that will almost surely become even more entrenched in the war’s aftermath,” wrote Shibley Telhami and Marc Lynch in Foreign Affairs. (WAPO, by Ishaan Tharoor) Copied in full.
Thank you, Fern, for supplying so much information. My immediate thought was "the devil is in the details!" What I don't know historically is what is Israel's authority over the West Bank? I know Israel has "occupied" and assumed authority, but is it possible for the United Nations to take over the situation and establish a new Palestinian state? Kick out the Jewish "settlers" or give them the choice of living under Palestinian rule? Establish a new state just as Israel was established as a new state? It sounds ideal if other Arab states would help with the rebuilding.
And something I wanted to ask about and no one has mentioned ---on WAMU in DC it was mentioned two days ago that Netanyahu was pushing the building of a huge refugee camp, I think on Egyptian land near Rafah, to move all the Gazans into to evacuate Rafah so it could be bombed or otherwise to search for Hamas. I have not heard a thing about that since.
Hello Barbara, your interest in the history and recent policies concerning Israel, the Palestinians and Arabs in Israel, Gaza and West Bank is an excellent model for the engaged citizen. I apologize for not having the time to give your questions the time they disserve. With reference to learning more about Palestinian history, I recommend the work of Columbia Professor, Rashid Khalidi and have provided several links below.
Sorry that I was unable to gift the NYTimes book review linked below.
https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2024/1/31/cmes-event-israel-gaza/
https://jacobin.com/author/rashid-khalidi
https://foreignpolicy.com/live/rashid-khalidi-on-the-israel-hamas-war/
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/28/books/review/the-hundred-years-war-on-palestine-rashid-khalidi.html
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2020/may/07/the-hundred-years-war-on-palestine-by-rashid-khalidi-review-conquest-and-resistance
Salud!
Exactly Stanley,
Nutofyoohoo, and Orbanity are manipulating every move in order to have dictator rights. Their own people hate them.
So, as Stanley says : what do you suggest Biden do??? And given the honor of continuing his administrations
attempt that is trying every day to get America back on a sane and sensible track why even threaten his position.
I was honored through my work to be part of President Carter’s attempt in the ‘70’s to bring a peace agreement to Begin, Sadat in Egypt and in Israel.
They signed the peace agreement at Camp David in 1979.
Please pay attention to the leaders of Israel and of Hungry. You might recognize trump if you do. Those three are not about helping anyone except themselves. I cringe at their names even being thrown at us every day. Are the billions on this planet truly afraid to stand up to these horrific specimens of human animals.
Be proud!!!! But even more, be SMART. Learn some history and some skills at building a true peace.
Jean (Muriel), very important work you were part of. Thank you!
. I also “support Israel and despise Netanyahu.” He has indeed become Israel’s worst enemy.
Stanley, you write:
"But disaffected Dems must realize that Biden is cornered. If he cuts off arms, he’ll lose many Jewish and non-Jewish supporters, and he’ll weaken the democracy’s strongest counterbalance to Iran."
Do you have any data to back up that assertion re: voting? That seems to be a "you made me support you while you were carrying out crimes" argument.
The U.S. Jews I know or know of are all very opposed to Netanyahu, and Israel's long-term abuse of West Bank Palestinians. It seems to me that Biden and Blinken could make it very clear that they have been urging the Israeli government to:
1) not cut off food, water, gas, and electricity to Gaza
2) allow in humanitarian aid much sooner and at much higher levels
3) stop adding illegal WB settlements, and to in fact start dismantling them on a set schedule
4) accept a 2-state solution , to be put in place in phases over say 1-2 years
5) agree to the new peace deal HCR explained today
6) not attack Rafah, where 1 million innocents are huddled (along with maybe 10,000 Hamas fighters)
They could then say that the U.S., as by far Israel's largest arms provider, has exhausted all confidential diplomatic channels to persuade Netanyahu et al to make these changes in policy. Since they've rejected every bit of our urgings, we have no choice but to put our provision of arms on hold. Whether those resume in the future will depend on what policy choices the Israeli government makes. For the moment, we believe that this is the only way to clearly get across our message to the PEOPLE of Israel. If their government wants to buy arms elsewhere, it's welcome to do so.
Jews make up 2.4% of the U.S. population. How much control over Biden's foreign policy should the staunchly pro-Israel subset be given? Especially when major moral issues are involved? My guess is that many millions of Americans would love to see Biden stand up with this kind of clarity and firmness.
So true, Tyler. That's what Biden and Blinken are doing. They have succeeded in getting a buy in from Israel's Arab neighbors, like Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Jordan. The problem is Iran.
Tyler Taylor, There is no good data to say how many Jews and non-Jews would vote against Biden, or do not vote, in November. There are too many variables to make such predictions reliable. However, I know Jews who have shifted from progressive left to Republican over their senses of Democratic anti-Israel positions: one-issue voters. After all, Trump can talk about total support for Israel and for Netanyahu. He can even act out his support, as he did when he announced moving the US embassy. That’s because he doesn’t give a flip about long-term consequences; never has, never will.
There also are non-Jews who love Israel. Israel hosts large numbers of non-Jewish tourists. The thing is, Biden’s 2020 margins were small in states that mattered. The electoral college means that a few states decide the presidency. How close to the margins do you want to play? IMO, risk analysis means we have to work every angle we can, and not give up any. BOTTOM LINE, Tyler, don’t you think Bibi knows and is playing on Biden’s cornered situation?
Stanley, you need to read Simon Rosenberg, a reliable poll watcher and statistician. He strongly disagrees with your conclusions. It's tRump that scored terribly in Michigan andSouth Carolina.
Eadie, thanks for the recommendation. Not sure how Michigan relates, but maybe Rosenberg will make it clear.
They are black and white thinkers, appropriate w hamas but not in solving the mess caused by religious intolerance.
Stanly, Biden is the only one who has recognized that in order for Israel to live in peace with its neighbors, these neighbors have to accept Israel's existence and be willing to normalize relations with them. That part of HCR's letter has been ignored by the Palestinian supporters on this thread. Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Jordan at long last have recognized their own security is at stake. They are now hinting that they are willing to do just that. That's what Biden's quiet diplomacy has been all about. Netanyahu despite all his faults just made the same argument with harsher terms. Although, most people agree he must go, he is not the major reason Israel finds itself in this position. They fought 4 major wars, 13 operations, and won. Ariel Sharon removed all of his troops from Gaza. What did he get? Hamas, a terrorist org. funded by Iran on its border. Let's call a spade a spade. The Jew haters will find any reason to condemn Israel as we have found out in the US. Jewish leaders, authors of newsletters we all read and leaders in our gov't. have sided with left wing progressives, code for Jew haters like Rashida Tlaib and Students for Justice Jews are losing the propaganda war!
Eadie, Netanyahu has expanded Israel’s relations with countries around the world, China, Saudi Arabia, and more. He’s smart and forceful. But he also has harmed Israel’s relations around the world by strongly resisting a two-state solution. We agree that Jews need a homeland. How can Israelis deny others what they demand for themselves? One reply could be that Jordan, etc, could absorb them. But all of Palestine was never (in modern times) an option. And surrounding Muslim and Arab nations won’t accept Palestinians. Bibi has given nations and people reasons to dislike and disrespect Israel. That’s a far cry from the Israel I grew up watching.
Stanley, you make some good points, but let me push back on some of your conclusions. Netanyahu, is a present day negative force. However, this was not always the case. He would have gone for a two state solution up until 2005 when he realized there was no satisfying Arafat or Abbas and mainly Iran. Israelis are not denying the Palestinian a homeland, but to expect Israel to give up the measly portion of Palestinian land they received through the League of Nations is a bridge to far. 9.5 million people are living on land the size of New Jersey or Conneticut. You might say, the Palestinians numbering over a million living in an area I believe is around 141 Square miles is an open air prison. You need to review the history of the partition after WWII. In 1948 Jews as well as Palestinians were throw off their land. 900,000 Jews lived all over the Middle East. Their Arab neighbors put them in tents where they languished until Israel became a state. On the other hand, Israel welcomed BOTH Israelis and Arabs who wished to stay in Israel. 20% of Israel's population are Arabs and they are represented by Monsour Abbas in the Knesset. that Israel shed blood and won. How many Jews were welcomed in Gaza? How many Jews graduated from their schools? How many Jews live in Gaza? The answer is Zero. They had to flee for their lives. The Arabs were collaborators with Hitler during WWII. Their leader worshipped him. Their charter specifically says they must eliminate the Jews. When will Jews in the US like Bernie Sanders and Reich stop apologizing for the Palestinians and their Arab neighbors. The right wing coalition did not come out of thin air. They have been murdered, called occupationists usurping Arab land, when no such thing is true. The settlers are living on disputed land taken back in the 1967 war. Did we give back US land to the Indians. Getting in tune with modern times as you call it is code for ignoring past treaties and the end of our democracy.
Eadie, thanks for replying. I think we’re splitting hairs. And I am familiar with the history; I wrote two position papers on it for a congressional candidate. And I’m preparing a lecture on it. There’s an argument that Netanyahu never was committed to a two-state solution; think of his father and brother. If he’d been committed, maybe no one had more ability to make it happen. But it didn’t, and here we are now with his embarrassing team. By the way, Israel and NJ have about the same area, population, and waterfront. No need to add CT. I not understand your point about “open air prison.” Are you saying Israel-proper isn’t large enough for its population? And then are you saying that’s a good reason to expand into the West Bank and Gaza? I’d be surprised if you meant that, so I don’t understand your point.
at a huge loss, I'm sure.
Michele, is it your notion that the current Hamas/Netanyahu war continue until it involves the entire Middle East at war? Can you not comprehend that Biden is working toward a two state solution that normalizes relations throughout the region? Your quip here suggests you aren’t really interested in a lasting peace, but rather just a tantrum in search of a target
Then are you pro Trump/Putin and anti-Taiwan? Pro climate instability?
Full stop with your post.
If you think that trump will abandon Israel & bibi, you are deluded.
Full stop hamas & bibi & the gop do-nothing congress.
Did you read Heather’s letter today? We have a binary choice in November. That is not going to change unless one of them keels over in the interim. If we don’t get Biden into the Oval Office for another term then Trump will help Netanyahu wipe the Palestinians off the map. You are smart enough to understand and so you will be in a small but very important way responsible if that happens.
Whatever you think of the Biden administration's policies on the Gazan war, remember the Maga alternative is to unleash the Israel fundamentalist right, all out, and you can definitely forget about giving Palestinians more authority, it will be indefinite military occupation, as if it isn't nearly already so; and of course, i'm sure the settler invasion will ramp up.
The Democratic party is not going to put forward, another candidate. So, not supporting Biden is supporting Trump. They should be thinking about what they will get in this war with Trump. They will be able to negotiate with Biden. Trump is fully behind Netanyahu.... probably because he sees himself in Netanyahu.
I hope Mr. Khanna is aware of the thin line he is walking....and possibly promoting.
Susan, your comment indicated that you were not familiar with Congressman Ro Khanna. The link that I provided for an article quoted in my comment about his meetings with students and voters in Michigan spelled out his active support for President Biden. You also wrote that he may be unaware '...of the thin line he is walking...and possibly promoting.', which I thought unconnected to Khanna's work, support of the administration and his reputation. Below are several links about bills he has sponsored in the House, his background, the NY Times article and a review of one of books he wrote, which you may find worthwhile. Salud!
https://www.rokhanna.com/page/meet-ro
https://www.congress.gov/member/ro-khanna/K000389
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/26/us/politics/michigan-ro-khanna-biden-election.html
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2022/jan/30/dignity-in-a-digital-age-review-congressman-ro-khanna-big-tech-to-task
I do understand the point. Just because a sociopathic, cereal rapist grifter would do something worse does not mean President (not Mr.) Biden and his team cannot do something better.
A two-state solution is better.
Fern,
Thank you for sharing this article.
The freedom we have in this country and within many other countries is vital for peace.
Respect for one another as fellow human beings is a necessity for peace and for the healthy growth of community.
Whether it be race, religion, political opinions....the only way to accomplish greatness is through mutual respect. "Love thy neighbor as thyself" is a helpful reminder.
Netanyahu does not have that mindset.
If I was a family member of any of the hostages, I would be furious at Netanyahu for making their safe return home a secondary objective.
Thank you for this detailed report on congressional work in Michigan. Its appears to be an intelligent, mature effort by some elected officials that we do not often see or at least hear about. I believe it’s called informed negotiation.
They'll be SOOOO much happier with the Trump approach to Israel/Palestine. And that IS the alternative.
'What Is U.S. Policy on the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict?' (Council on Foreign Relations)
'The United States has long tried to negotiate a resolution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, but several factors, including deep divisions between and within the parties and declining U.S. interest in carrying out its traditional honest-broker role, have hurt the chances of a peace deal.'
'Last updated July 12, 2023 12:00 pm (EST)'
'Summary'
'The decades-long conflict between Israelis and Palestinians is rooted in competing claims to the Holy Land, and includes disputes over borders, Jerusalem, security, and Palestinian refugees.'
'The United States has long sought a solution to the conflict that results in two states, although the Trump administration adopted policies that diverged from that goal.'
'The Biden administration has reaffirmed U.S. support for a two-state solution but hasn’t moved to restart negotiations. It has instead promoted Israeli-Arab normalization and resumed aid for Palestinians.'
'Introduction'
'Israelis and Palestinians have clashed over claims to the Holy Land for decades, a conflict that has long been one of the world’s most intractable. Although the United States is a strong supporter of Israel, it has traditionally tried to advance a diplomatic solution that would reconcile the competing claims of the two parties.'
'Multiple U.S. administrations have proposed road maps for a peace process that would result in two states, one Israeli and one Palestinian. However, critics say President Donald Trump limited prospects for a two-state solution by implementing controversial policies regarding core components of the conflict. Though the Joe Biden administration has reiterated U.S. support for a two-state solution, it has reversed only some of Trump’s changes while leaving others in place. Meanwhile, violence between the two sides has reached levels not seen since the last Palestinian uprising ended in 2005.' (Council on Foreign Relations, WRITTEN BY Kali Robinson) See link below.
https://www.cfr.org/backgrounder/what-us-policy-israeli-palestinian-conflict
thank you, Fern, for always sharing something important with us. I always learn from you.
Thank you, Heather, for your encouragement. This is a forum of learning and sharing. We are doing that.
Current choice for voters: frying pan or fire.
Biden, meanwhile, is stuck between a rock -- AIPAC absolutism -- and a hard place, the Israeli protege, led by a conned narcissistic pervert of a conman whose priority is to avoid facing justice, flanked by Nazi-formated extremists, and leading a war, not of self-defence but of annihilation, just like Saddam, like the Al-Assads...
But, of course, with American armaments.
And there's nothing harder to reverse than built-in systems of tail-wags-dog. As America, too, is now seeing.
FERN MCBRIDE (NYC) - 'A Biden Ally Wades Into the Divide Over Gaza and Emerges With a Warning'
'After days of meetings with disaffected Democrats in Michigan, Representative Ro Khanna says President Biden cannot win the state without changes to his Middle East policy.' (NYTimes, excerpts)
*************************
See also:
𝐷𝑒𝑎𝑟𝑏𝑜𝑟𝑛 𝑀𝑎𝑦𝑜𝑟 𝐴𝑏𝑑𝑢𝑙𝑙𝑎ℎ 𝐻𝑎𝑚𝑚𝑜𝑢𝑑, 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑓𝑖𝑟𝑠𝑡 𝐴𝑟𝑎𝑏 𝐴𝑚𝑒𝑟𝑖𝑐𝑎𝑛 𝑚𝑎𝑦𝑜𝑟 𝑜𝑓 𝑎 𝑚𝑎𝑗𝑜𝑟𝑖𝑡𝑦 𝐴𝑟𝑎𝑏 𝐴𝑚𝑒𝑟𝑖𝑐𝑎𝑛 𝑐𝑖𝑡𝑦, 𝑡𝑒𝑙𝑙𝑠 𝑈𝑝 𝐹𝑖𝑟𝑠𝑡 ℎ𝑜𝑠𝑡 𝐿𝑒𝑖𝑙𝑎 𝐹𝑎𝑑𝑒𝑙 𝑡ℎ𝑎𝑡 ℎ𝑖𝑠 𝑐𝑜𝑚𝑚𝑢𝑛𝑖𝑡𝑦 𝑖𝑠 "𝑛𝑜𝑡 𝑠𝑖𝑧𝑎𝑏𝑙𝑒 𝑒𝑛𝑜𝑢𝑔ℎ 𝑡𝑜 𝑚𝑎𝑘𝑒 𝑎 𝑐𝑎𝑛𝑑𝑖𝑑𝑎𝑡𝑒 𝑤𝑖𝑛" 𝑏𝑢𝑡 "𝑠𝑖𝑧𝑎𝑏𝑙𝑒 𝑒𝑛𝑜𝑢𝑔ℎ 𝑡𝑜 𝑚𝑎𝑘𝑒 𝑎 𝑐𝑎𝑛𝑑𝑖𝑑𝑎𝑡𝑒 𝑙𝑜𝑠𝑒." 𝐹𝑎𝑑𝑒𝑙 𝑟𝑒𝑝𝑜𝑟𝑡𝑠 𝑡ℎ𝑎𝑡 𝑦𝑜𝑢𝑛𝑔 𝑝𝑒𝑜𝑝𝑙𝑒, 𝑝𝑟𝑜𝑔𝑟𝑒𝑠𝑠𝑖𝑣𝑒𝑠 𝑎𝑛𝑑 𝑝𝑎𝑟𝑡𝑖𝑐𝑢𝑙𝑎𝑟𝑙𝑦 𝑦𝑜𝑢𝑛𝑔 𝐵𝑙𝑎𝑐𝑘 𝑣𝑜𝑡𝑒𝑟𝑠 𝑠ℎ𝑒 𝑠𝑝𝑜𝑘𝑒 𝑡𝑜 𝑎𝑟𝑒 𝑎𝑙𝑠𝑜 𝑜𝑢𝑡𝑟𝑎𝑔𝑒𝑑 𝑎𝑛𝑑 𝑠ℎ𝑎𝑟𝑒𝑑 𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑖𝑟 𝑤𝑜𝑟𝑟𝑖𝑒𝑠 𝑜𝑣𝑒𝑟 ℎ𝑢𝑚𝑎𝑛 𝑟𝑖𝑔ℎ𝑡𝑠 𝑖𝑛 𝐴𝑚𝑒𝑟𝑖𝑐𝑎.
https://one.npr.org/?sharedMediaId=1198910881:1234120036&utm_source=npr_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_content=20240227&utm_term=9301088&utm_campaign=news&utm_id=31196724&orgid=33&utm_att1=
How to educate young people, progressives and particularly young Black voters about the extreme and complicated issues surrounding this war and not support the emotionalism that drives further division. The pain is real; the path forward is overcome with briars; but the light that beckons is a two-state solution.
I think of White people, too. Older Whites, progressive, liberal, moderate and conservative whites would also benefit from knowing the history of the Jews and Palestinians as well as the treatment of Palestinians in Gaza, The West Bank and Israel before this latest war. Why point at 'particularly young Black voters' concerning the extreme and complicated issues...'? I see fixed and very emotional positions of Whites, including from subscribers to LFAA.
I was responding to the previous commenter and she used those populations. You are right, definitely.
I appreciated your response very much, Kathy.
My niece In Seattle and her husband have been promoting for many years ways to educate their peers about the Palestinians. She created a "Palestinian Teaching Trunk" for school teachers to use.
Only a progressive, instead of helping to find a solution from inside the party, is so dimly unaware of how elections work that he trumpets problems into the atmosphere.
Part of this is that politicians who hail from such lefty districts that a Ham Sandwich who was a registered Democrat could win election (this was AOC in her first term. But she is very smart and learned that you need to win election to solve any problems).
Another part of this is that poor politicians have a habit of trying to imitate pundits, analyzing elections rather than winning them.
Khanna is—whatever his politics—a hack who says things that draw attention to himself, whether it helps a larger cause or not.
Orban just needed to have Hungary's palms greased with a few jet fighters and some Swedish investment. lol
Extortion not concessions
lol kinda. What'd they get out of the Finns i wonder?
Good question!
Otherwise known as the treacherous, treasonous, traitors!
Yes . The phrase “Putin-Republicans” is one of those short sound bite campaign blurbs that the democrats can and should use in this election. Why not? The GOP uses these sound bites all the time. For example “job -killing regulations” or “tax and spend “ as applied to democrats.
Damn right!
'normalization of relations' based on diplomacy in the Middle East: it may be a dream but it is certainly worth pursuing.
Absolutely! Diplomacy is cheap in comparison to loss of life. I'm holding out hope for Biden's Grand Bargain.
Wait; Biden and Blinken waited three years to change Trump’s policy that Israeli settlements are perfectly legal..?! And even better; get this:
“Biden administration officials did not cast Blinken’s comments as a reversal — but only because they claim Pompeo’s determination was never issued formally. Biden administration lawyers concluded Pompeo’s determination was merely his opinion and not legally binding, according to two administration officials who spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss private discussions.”
What hypocrisy!
https://apnews.com/article/israel-settlements-illegitimate-palestine-biden-rescind-law-0bed7cf5d6f98012193e9f5075eb719a?utm_source=RecoReel&utm_medium=articlePage&utm_id=Taboola
@HeatherCoxRichardson- I know this is off topic, but I’d really like to hear your thoughts on this please. If Biden wins the 2024 election, what can the administration do to prevent the GOP’s new plan to obstruct the results? They’re nailing down a J6 2.0 plan to take over the government and have learned from their mistakes. It appears there is no legal recourse to their plan, so it has a greater chance of success than in 2021. This has been written about and described extensively by Newsweek’s Tom Rogers, Mark Medish & Joel McCleary for the Washington Spectator, Joy Reid and Thom Hartmann. It’s public knowledge although, as usual, the media is generally ignoring it. We essentially chose to ignore the warnings about J6, as well. This time, the seditionists hold power in the House and can accomplish the takeover from inside the chamber. This is the most frightening development on the election front yet.
https://open.substack.com/pub/thomhartmann/p/the-new-over-the-top-secret-plan-518?r=ap54k&utm_medium=ios&utm_campaign=post
Chris, While your comment is off-topic relative to today’s LFAA, the discussion is one we can’t afford to postpone. Hence, I thank you for writing, and, though I’m no substitute for HCR, here’s my best pitch.
To start, while we have to win big up and down the ballot, our margins in the House must be large enough to make it virtually unthinkable for Mike Johnson to deny seating a sufficient number of Democrats for Republicans to hold the majority.
As an added layer of protection, our wins in the House must be sufficiently strategic so that Democrats, not Republicans, would control the majority of delegations. Said shift would render Republican shenanigans even more suspect. Here, I turn to Jerry Weiss, who writes Feathers of Hope and who recently provided me with a strategy for shifting majority control of delegations to House Democrats.
Contrary to Hartman, Weiss counts only 25 Republican majority delegations, and 2 ties (Minnesota and North Carolina). That makes MN and NC obvious targets for flipping which would produce a tie of 25 Rs and 25 Ds. Weiss notes, as the presiding officer, VP Harris would cast the tie-breaking vote. Considering it’s better to have a clear majority, Weiss suggests targeting Arizona (6R, 3D) where only 2 seats need to be flipped, and maybe Georgia (9R, 5D) where a 2-seat change would result in a tie and thus a Republican loss. Weiss notes there is one more complication. That is the need also to protect every existing Democratic majority delegation, particularly the close ones like Alaska, Michigan, Pennsylvania, and especially Virginia where 2 Democrats will be retiring.
While the discussion doesn’t end here, my objective was to offer a starting point. I hope I have been helpful.
You can't imagine how bizarre that all sounds from abroad.
You have a guy who can say "All the ones that won fair and square, that I don't like, can't play"?
So they don't even need the gerrymandering?
I don't mean to sound like Pollyanna but Trump is losing it and very quickly. And it doesn't seem like a ploy to get sympathy with his upcoming juries and the justice systems.
Who among us can't remember their own wife's name (it's Melania not Mercedes) and who can't remember their kids names (Eric and Laura omitted on Friday and he even had queue cards)? More and more of what he says can't even be reported because it is gibberish. And this isn't wishful thinking on my part. Hopefully he wins enough delegates on Super Tuesday to win the nomination because the convention will be a fiasco if his dementia continues to show itself.
It's hard to believe that people are calling for Nikki Haley (or is it Nancy Pelosi) to drop out of the race when she may be the one to keep the convention going off the rails.
And how exactly will TFFG be able to run the government from a prison cell? He can pardon himself for Federal cases but not the cases in NY and GA.
Trump supporters will not abandon him even if he is on life support after a heart attack. When people are loyal enough, their brains cloud. It's the "persuadables" that might peel away...hopefully.
But you make good points. And Haley is being very strategic. That worries me a lot. I don't think Biden would lose to Trump. But I do think Haley could win. She has that veneer of being reasonable. A very dangerous subterfuge. Koch supported her for a reason.
I think the Demon Oligarchs behind Project 2025 may have it in their heads that there will be an appropriate puppet VP who can take the reins (Article 25?) and implement that project swiftly - the first 180 days are a focus. They don't care who their figurehead is. Trump is just a vehicle for the further privatization of our government.
The Bangor Daily News did a poll in ME a few months ago and 20% of the respondents believe Trump won the election in 2020. They will believe anything he tells them.
As for Hayley winning, she said she would sign a 6 week abortion ban and that she would pardon TFFG. These are pretty far-right positions that she would have to back-track on.
There is also plenty she said when TFFG was in office and she wasn't a great ambassador.
The different factions want 1) a theocracy and 2) a corporatocracy.
That could be a very formidable force to beat because there are no limits to the amount of money the greedy oligarchs with pay to get a Republican back in the WH.
Exactly, this is not just about Trump. Even if he doesn’t win, the Oligarchs won’t stop trying to take over our government. If we can keep Biden in office, increase the majority in the Senate and flip the house, we can get some legislation that may prevent them from succeeding.
I think the never Dems just won't vote. The criminally insane trumpanzees will, but they are just a circus and will go back to their golf communities.
At some point his cult will close up their wallets and Putin will have to pay up. Let’s hope he goes for defenestration instead.
Nikki's staying in is to establish a significant minority of Republicans do NOT want Trump. What more could the Dems want come November? (well lots but you get my drift)
I think she's staying in because she will be the only Republican at the convention with a significant percentage of the delegates who can root for her and because it's likely Trump will be a convicted felon by then.
How will they choose any one but her if that's the case?
You have a guy who can say "All the ones that won fair and square, that I don't like, can't play"?
Trump and Putin sing a duet.
Maybe Taylor Swift can give a concert in every city where Trump is giving one of his clown shoe rallies. And she can bring Biden up on stage every once in a while.
She literally has the power to bring in millions of votes for Biden.
lol, too funny
Christopher, I can imagine, but I am a pragmatist prepared to tackle a f**ked up possibility so we increasingly can fill seats up and down the ballot with progressives eager to reform the system.
id settle for moderates, however defined, whatever appeals to a larger voting majority.
Frank, My one concern about “moderates,” generally speaking, is their reluctance to get behind sorely needed bold structural reforms.
the Dem coalition is not just about progressives, by a stretch, given the degree of conservatism in the American electorate, to wit how MAGA metastasized among the traditional Republican voter base. From a long period of Dem domination in Congress from the 60s until Reagan, Republicans have successfully fought their way by means fair and foul to something akin a Mexican stand-off. I'm hoping MAGA has so overstepped itself enough Republicans and Independents will swing to provide Dems with real political power. Personally, I'd be a progressive of sorts, living in another national jurisdiction where some of the social policies progressives struggle for were won, much more handily, a few generations ago. I'd be far more concerned about a MAGA in power than Dems, whatever their stripe.
I would also note that there is currently a lawsuit working its way to Wisconsin's newly liberal Supreme Court that could redraw our heavily gerrymandered congressional maps ahead of November's elections. The current gerrymandered map gives six of the state’s eight congressional districts to Republicans, and only two are seen as competitive. A "fair" map in our purple state could result in Democrats holding a slim majority given the outrage over the Dobbs decision.
I wish Texas would get rid of gerrymandering so that my vote and those of others would count. It makes no sense for the party winning the most actual "popular" votes to lose because of the purposely drawn districts to stop truly democratic voting.
Good news but why why why is the margin still “slim?” 🎃💩🤡
The margins could be "slim" because we are usually a purple state. Even our new state legislature maps, at least on paper, "slightly favor Republicans". My hope is that the Dobbs decision will swing large numbers of right leaning independents and even some Republicans to vote Blue.
I donno, radio-based bible belt country?
Robin, I hope I’m wrong, but I had understood that this particular redistricting case applied solely to state legislatures.
The first case dealt with the state legislature, but the second case currently wending its way through the courts is about the Federal representative maps.
Robin, I had understood that the state legislature redistricting would go into effect by the November election. I had no idea the same could be true of congressional redistricting. Thank you for clarifying.
My head is spinning, is that a sign of frustration or that I have lost my mind…
There are so many moving parts it’s really hard to know where to put your energy. We have to get control of the House because MIke Johnson gets his orders from trump. It’s like we’re running with two separate governments.
Exactly, Joe would have his hands full if all were supportive and united. Now it's just a miracle that he is still standing.
Mike Johnson is dangerous to the constitution and this country. He may get instructions from Trump, but his clearest instructions come from god. His party is Christian Nationalism. A reversal in women’s and human rights and separation of church and state. More than a distraction. https://wapo.st/49N4VM7
Jeri, Given my view of the past several decades, Trumpism did not occur in a vacuum. Accordingly, we’re being tested, and we all face a choice. Ultimately, mine is to work as well as I can to shape a more generous common future. Still, I expect to encounter repeated frustration and likely some failures before making significant progress toward my ultimate goals, which I expect I share with everyone on this site.
I hope I never gave the impression that the cult occurred in a vacuum. I remember Nixon's destruction derby, Lee Atwater, Reagan inviting Rupert in to reimagine our media landscape, Newt, the stealing of the election of 2000, on and on. I had hope when Obama was elected, but I saw such hatred and vitriol that it knocked that hope for a loop. Being the perpetual optimist that I have been most of my life, I had hope that after four years of cult hell, we would return to some degree of sanity. Silly me. The battle never lulls. Yes, I share goals for progress, but I have no illusions.
Jeri, To get through the day, I repeatedly tell myself that virtually all of America’s most effective historical movements met with repeated frustration and failure before making significant progress toward their goals.
True, but I know of enough instances when the good guys lost that I assume nothing. WW2 was won because of the fight but despite the sacrifices. Both are in store for us, it seems.
Sadly, so true, Obama, black and "socialist", a "foreigner" to boot, which Trump helped promote as well, "Obamacare" decisively gave rise to the Tea Party, which Americans voted into power mind you. Not like rural America is stinking rich, if you check the demographics of wealth in USA, mainly urban centred... including Fox, lol.
You are so right abt "did not occur in a vacuum"... Trump just had his eye on the Tea Party and got on board.
Frank, While I imagine the Tea Party Movement was a precipitating cause, other remote causes likely date back, at least to Reagan.
Agreed, perhaps before, given the intense opposition to the Civil Rights Acts, secular "intrusions" into prayers in school etc, and of course, Roe vs Wade which collectively were drawing in the Evangelical "silent majority" crowd. And if you consider the racial side of things, you might as well go back to the Civil War... not quite lol. Dems cracked up over civil rights, and the reform wing became dominant, while the conservative wing migrated to the Republicans under Goldwater? Am I close?
I’m hoping it’s a sign of frustration, otherwise, I’ve also lost my mind!
The zombies are afoot, I fear.
Barbara, thank you for your thoughts. My concerns are that Republicans have already shown their willingness to ignore the law when it suits them. Whether the Speaker is allowed to, or not, he’s already refusing to swear in Suozzi, citing “irregularities that need to be investigated”. Republicans lie, cheat and steal to win elections, because they can’t win any other way. Christian Nationalists, including Johnson, are publicly stating that their goal is to destroy democracy, in order to install an autocratic “Christian” leader. They no longer adhere to Christian values and are just criminal racists, misogynists and homophobes using a Christian cover. They think Trump will do their bidding once they get him elected. They myopically ignore the fact that he’s a liar and cheat who doesn’t honor his obligations and that, once in power, he’ll have no fealty to anyone, except other autocrats. Their plan is to delay swearing in Dems newly elected to the House, stalling the certification of the vote, thereby giving them time to implement strategies to overthrow the election. J6 on steroids, because they’ve learned from their previous mistakes. My hope is that because “possession is nine tenths of the law” the Biden administration would refuse to leave the White House and have the military prepared to suppress any further violent attempts to overthrow our government. Or that because the GOP is filled with idiots, the plan will just implode. Although I don’t think we should count on that. They’ve already managed to stack the Supreme Court. And have colluded with the Russians, including refusing to fund Ukraine’s defense against Putin. And have impeached Mayorkas and continued hearings on Biden with only fabricated evidence of wrongdoing in both cases, including false statements from a Russian operative. And repeatedly brought us to the brink of global economic disaster by refusing to pass a long-term budget without major concessions to their regressive and suppressive ideology. Among many other reprehensible things.
Chris, Your reply indisputably illustrates that the other side has shown it will do whatever is necessary to hold power. Hence, if we’re to have any hope, at the very least, of preserving the remnants of democracy not already gone missing, we have to be willing to engage in war, figuratively speaking.. The alternative I dare say is to accept there’s nothing to be done because nothing can be done.
Barbara, I’ve taken heart from comments some folks have posted. Several people who live in MAGA territory but don’t support Trump, said the Trumper’s talk about Civil War is primarily bluster and bravado. Since so many J6 insurrectionists have been jailed, their fervor has cooled. They prefer to sit on the front porch with their beer and bloviate about protecting their rights and liberties rather than putting themselves on the line. There have been no violent protests after Trump‘s indictments and convictions, and they couldn’t even find half a dozen truckers to join their convoy. They prefer the cowards way of anonymously calling SWAT teams on their perceived enemies. The few hard-core civil war proponents who are actually willing to take up arms against the government would be no match for US military might.
Chris, I sense from your comment that I might have been misunderstood. When I wrote, “We have to be willing to engage in war,” I meant figuratively. Because I sense you might have thought otherwise, I edited my comment accordingly. If I was misread, I truly am sorry.
👏
Jen, Although I imagine this Emoji is widely recognized, I don’t know what it means.
Clapping.
Thanks, Gail.
The Congress is seated brfore January 6, and the House will lose its majority. THE IMPORTANT RACES WILL BE FOR SENATE CONTROL, and that doesn’t look hopeful.
The Speaker can refuse to swear in the new members (as he is doing now with Tom Suozzi.) Perfectly legal.
That little alligator-bait hillbilly needs to have an "accident."
😂
Is this incorrect then? Anyone?
https://www.hklaw.com/en/insights/publications/2017/12/when-can-congress-refuse-to-seat-a-dulyelected-can
Looks legit to me. And why does he have to be sworn in? The Republicans swore to uphold the Constitution and they all lied about that. It may be a norm to be sworn in, but fuck Mike Johnson and his Putin loving former President.
So what can Suozzi do? Just show up in the chamber and start voting ? Criminals control the House and would have him barred. Dems refuse to fight fire with fire, which is a big reason we have arrived at this point.
Everything I'm seeing is reporting he'll be sworn in tomorrow, as has been the plan since he won. What's the source for the alleged refusal to swear him in?
Glad to see some counter to the conspiracy approach. Johnson's was just delaying tactics to the impeachment vote.
A new congressional session begins, January 3, and a new majority will choose a speaker, before the 6th.
Republicans have already shown their willingness to ignore the law when it suits them. As pointed out above by Nancy, whether the Speaker is allowed to, or not, he’s already refusing to swear in Suozzi, citing “irregularities that need to be investigated”. Republicans lie, cheat and steal to win elections, because they can’t win any other way. Christian Nationalists, including Johnson, are publicly stating that their goal is to destroy democracy, in order to install an autocratic leader. They no longer adhere to Christian values and are just white supremacists using a Christian cover. They think Trump will do their bidding once they help him get elected. They myopically ignore the fact that he’s a liar and cheat who doesn’t honor his obligations. Once an autocrat is in power, they have no fealty to anyone.
How can this be?????
It can't according to Sherry's link.
Republicans do a lot of things they’re not “supposed to“ without consequences. Like delaying appointments in order to stack the Supreme Court with sympathizers. And participating in the insurrection attempt from inside the house. And refusing to bring a vote to the floor until enough Dems are absent. And bringing us to the brink of global economic catastrophe, by refusing to pass a long-term budget. And colluding with Russian operatives. And staging impeachments with zero evidence of crimes. The list goes on and on.
Yep, you scratched the surface. Too bad that our media is well aware of the "things they are not supposed to do," yet they somehow slip under the rug. All it takes is another "thing they are not supposed to do, and the headlines change....the possibilities are legion... Maybe we need multiple real news programs a day, one to focus on current fiascos, another to update on previous "things." This instead of the rehash every hour on the latest nonsense, which it often is. Paradigm shift necessary since chump is here to stay, even after he is gone...
One option is to do what was done in 1861. Lincoln had been elected president. He and others feared what would have been the first January 6th insurrection. A general setup soldiers so that if anyone threatened violence, they’d become cannon fodder. The 1861 electoral vote count went off without incident. Now, during an insurrection, can the army be called in?
Biden refuse to leave office?
wow, gobsmacking fearful..... I'd prefer to hear more on this however.
And according to one plausible estimate I've heard (can't recall the source, sorry), there are likely about 21 million hard-core Trump supporters prepared to take up arms against the majority electorate to make America great again.
I live among hard core supporters. They’re not about to do more than pay lip service. I’m sure there are quite a few out there that would but this number is far from believable.
You're right Gail, it's lip service. Unless they are taking up arms while sitting in their recliners holding their glass of Scotch. His supporters are dying by the day. The most his supporters will do in Florida's Villages of The Damned, is have a golf cart parade. The drunk ones usually hit a car or two along the way.
Scotch? Beer with a whiskey chaser is more like it.
Exactly!
Or sink their boats. 😂
Gail, I tend to think you’re right! They’ve become subdued since the J6 convictions. I’m sure there’s still a hardcore faction that are willing to put their lives on the line for their beliefs, but the military would have far superior strength. Trump supporters have grandiose delusions, especially Trump himself. Even some of the convicted insurrections said they will do it again.
That's reassuring, Gail. Thanks!
Even 100,000 could do a lot of damage. Especially if active members of the military are among them.
There’s a lot more than 100,000 in our military and police who aren’t going to break the law.
Remember the RNC will have no money to promote candidates, as they have decided to be the last chance for the orange cocksplat grift. They will lose the House, and I'm thinking may well not gain the senate. Work for that
If It weren’t for the success of the American Jewish lobby and foreign influence giving Israel a green light to do whatever it has wanted, then there would have been a resolve decades ago. A two-state solution is the only one. You cannot wipe out and ethnically cleanse as Israelis have done and pretend God gave them this right just because it was done to them in Europe. It doesn’t work that way. But now that the Jack-booted Nazi-like extremist orthodox thugs control the government, it will be a long struggle to win peace.
The actions of Hamas was brilliant even though the plan necessitated losing large numbers of their population. But in the history of the human species, losing to death large numbers is acceptable.
What do you think a new national election in Israel might bring?
Who knows. Likely it would bring down the Hitler of Isreal and that would open the path to charges against him and likely a prison sentence.
Thank you for this important report, Professor. In an interview/discussion that aired yesterday, Malcolm Nance spoke at some length about the war, and drew the connections between Russia-Iran-Hezbollah-Hamas. It's critical for Americans to understand that Russia and Iran made the investment necessary for Hamas to pull off 10/7, and Russia is waging a social media and msm influence campaign about the conflict. Also, the Netanyahu regime is striking back to create cover because it failed to protect it's own on 10/7. Frankly, Nance sounded more in alignment with the all-out war Israel is waging than I am. Yet his comments were a reminder of how it started, and who's backing Hamas.
Separately, the Biden administration does not control the Israel state. Netanyahu would like nothing more than to stay in power and to see citizen Trump re-elected to the oval in 2024. By waging the war on Gaza as the right wingers are doing in Israel - and against the Biden administration's urgings - Netanyahu's right wingers are not only attempting to remain in power, they're boosting Trump's chances. I hope that the Biden administration's efforts toward securing release of the hostages and assisting a two-state solution prevail.
Here's the interview with Nance: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tW98Wiq2z9c&list=PL36GQAccexbyjbrWdAnKFmVTJds1WueKg
You do realize that the Hamas fighters are also still waging war in return? The way the media reports it makes it seem as if it is all one sided. And there was no war before Oct 7.
Of course. Hamas started the war. As Nance says in his discussion, if Hamas withdrew (at the bidding of its masters, Iran and Russia) the war would end. That said, had the Netanyahu regime been doing its job, 10/7 could not have happened as it did.
Re: your last sentence. I wonder? I hope it’s not true as it seems like victim blaming. Do you think the US was aware that Pearl Harbour was going to occur in advance?
Israel's problem is they refuse to get rid of their Donald Trump. Nitwityahoo.
The 1940s was a different era in intelligence capabilities. Coming closer in time, the US should have been better prepared for 9/11, but higher ups in the intelligence community failed to heed warnings they were getting from FBI field officers That’s fact, not victim blaming. The victims were in the hijacked jets that hit the Twin Towers, the Pentagon building, the Pennsylvania field. It’s not blaming the murder and kidnap victims of 10/7 to state the fact that had Netanyahu’s regime been keeping watch over actions taking place along its southern border, they would have been on the alert, prepared to intervene.
Hmmm…had the US been encouraging illicit settlements in Japan?
Yes
Annie- They still do the same thing with Afghanistan. They act like we should still be sacrificing the lives of our military personnel like we did for over 20 years. Or the $300 million a day we wasted to kill a few terrorists. We were NEVER going to defeat the Taliban in Afghanistan. If it were up to the Republicans we would still be there.
As for the MSM, they permanently attach the words "chaotic withdrawal" EVERY time they say or write "Afghanistan" Pathetic.
Agreed. It is often the historical actions of the US that results in these theocratic highly repressive states. Afghanistan, Iran for instance.
How and to where could Hamas withdraw? Deeper into the earth? Directly into the Mediterranean? In a negotiated march into Egypt, Jordan or Lebanon? None of these countries want them or would conceivably agree to accept them. The Negev? Isn't that also Egypt? They have two options; surrender or die.
Hamas is trained and supported by Iran and Russia, as is Hezbollah. Hamas’ leaders are settled in nicely in Qatar, their intermediary. Hamas members can disperse. Millions of Palestinians have a different plight.
Unlike Hamas, which can withdraw, Palestinian civilians are trapped between Hamas which is funded/trained by Iran/Russia and the IDF run by hardline right wingers who almost certainly will be voted out by Israeli citizens if an election is held.
An election will be held. Netanyahu and his coalition will be voted out. Israelis are sick of the conflict and sick of Netanyahu and aghast at what had been going on. Anger will take more than one generation to dissipate, but Biden's administration is trying to force Israel's hand by providing a better option.
I do not think stopping whatever flow of money is happening- and last I heard the flow is halted in Congress-would cause Hamas to release the remaining US and Israeli hostages or cause either Hamas or Hezbollah to give up on their stated objective of destroying the state of Israel.
Neither Iran nor Russia will stop funding and training Hamas and Hezbollah, if the US were to stop funding for Israel.
I support a ceasefire, one that is agreed to by all combatants. If the US is going to be held to account by influencers and the media and government bodies. so should Iran and Russia.
I know the situation in Israel is very complex but I don't know how they continue to receive money from the US when they clearly don't want to do anything the US is proposing. To me, it is like having a teenager that continues to want money from a parent but is unwilling to listen or do anything the parent is telling them to do. I KNOW this is over simplistic but why should we support them financially when they are clearly breaking international laws set down by many countries. Netanyahu is a corrupt crook just like his buddy who wants back in our White House. I don't know how Anthony Blinken keeps going!
In fact, the US is neither a parent nor an overlord to Israel. There will be Israel after Bibi and Palestine after Hamas. The long view is that the US has been Israel's closest ally since 1948 and will likely remain so into the indefinite future. Biden is doing the excruciating work of walking a line by continually calling out for the conventions of war that protect civilian lives while showing consistency in a long-standing policy of support, including munitions, for Israel. In spite of the evolving tragedy, focusing only on what is happening today is very short-sighted. The US is unfortunately in no position right now to make a sea change in policy towards Israel when half of our legislative branch of government is on a collision course with chaos. We have our own housecleaning to do before we can speak with one voice to the world.
I know that I over simplified a very complex situation. Sadly , I think President Biden is damned if he does and damned if he doesn’t. I am so glad that he trying to make good decisions in the face of all the craziness that is currently going on. Thank you for your comment, I agree.
Just sayin', you just said a mouthful. We have GOT to get our own house in order, both literally and figuratively.
Perhaps he feels he has no other choice.
Netanyahu or President Biden?
Biden, although I suspect Netanyahu's choices are narrowed by legal considerations like our former guy's.
This is the last section of a piece written in the Guardian. I found it interesting.
“Passive is not, incidentally, how many in Gaza are coming to view the organisation: there have been reports of anti-Hamas demonstrations breaking out across Gaza in recent days, as protesters make a case distilled most starkly by the analyst Ahmed Fouad Alkhatib, a native of Gaza City, who has lost a staggering 31 family members to Israeli bombs.
Now based in the US, Alkhatib’s condemnation of Hamas’s demands before they will agree to a ceasefire is worth quoting at length. Hamas, he says, “is insisting on the full reconstruction and redevelopment of Gaza to what it was before October 7. Why launch a destructive war that annihilates your people and destroys your territories only to demand that Gaza be back to what it was before you dragged Gazans along with your suicidal adventures? You could have had what you want simply by not launching a war that you knew would be disastrous.”
From The Guardian February 23, 2024
David Friedman, one of Trump's ambassadors to Israel, was apoplectic at the notion that the State Department would seriously think of facilitating the one thing that has been dangled like a carrot of a possible two-state resolution. It shows just how out of touch he and the folks at AIPAC are with the rest of the world's reality-based view that continuing with endless bombing is not going to bring peace.
While driving today I heard an uplifting segment on the radio about a re-flourishing of democracy in Poland, after eight or so years of right-wingnuttery and sabotage of democratic institutions. a tiny bit of hope in the midst of Eastern European darkness.
Tiny bits are precious these days.
There are maybe four possibilities for the future of the portion of the Levant defined by the modern state of Israel and whatever one wants to attribute to the Palestinians (not really worth debating since it is so fluid at the moment). One is a resumption of some version of the status quo with a dominate Israel and an inferior state of Palestine. Another is the so-called two state solution. Another is the eradication of any remnant of a Palestinian state. Yet another would be a single country that is seen as a fair and multi-ethnic society by everyone who lives there, and everyone who has a reasonable claim to a right to live there.
There are actually two "one state" solutions. My view has always been that the latter one that is fair to all of its people is the only just option of the four, but it also seems to be at least as unlikely as the so-called two state solution, which always required a bit of wishful thinking and blindness to anything that was even remotely just or fair. Crafting a policy for us that deals with these options is further complicated by both domestic politics and the horrors of the early 20th century. Biden or any other president is caught between a rock and hard place on this one. It's just so very very sad.
Did you know that only 75 percent of Israelis are Jewish? So it actually is already a multi ethnic state.
It might be a multi-ethnic state if the non-Jewish residents actually had rights. Right now it's an apartheid state.
With wall around their cities! Having lived in West Berlin while the wall was still up, I was APPALLED last April to see walls around Bethlehem and other areas of Israel where Palestinians have no passports, no freedom to travel, cannot leave or enter without express permission from Israeli guards. The propaganda here in the US has been loud and long, adding to the plight of the Palestinians. While I went for a pilgrimage, I ended up heartbroken by the hurt and sublimation of rights of the people there.
Have you visited Israel? Arab Israelis have full rights and are integrated into the economy, though they tend to live in different neighborhoods and towns. Going through a normal day, you often don't know whether you're interacting with an Arab Muslim or a Sabra Jew.
Is there complete equality? Legally and practically, yes. Socially? No. It's not apartheid.
Totally agree Jerry. Also my experience in visiting Israel. Yes there are certainly discrimination problems within the country, no different than in almost every other country in the world, but people are not physically “kept apart” which is what apartheid means.
These arguments are irrelevant and require willful blindness. Now that blindness is easy to understand, given the wellspring from which it flows. But symbols, like words matter. What if we were to replace the stars on the US flag with little Christian crosses? There are a lot of folks who would like that. Of course that would be wrong and send a terrible message to every American who has a different belief system. A just Israel cannot call itself the Jewish state and retain that star on its flag. It can retain the automatic dual citizenship policy, but it should consider extending that to people who are persecuted for their religion or ethnicity who also have religious or ethnic roots in the region. That said, it isn't going to happen because of the willful blindness. And that blindness is going to guarantee that non-Jews not yet born are going to grow up hating everything Israel stands for and some will act on that hatred. The cycle will just keep going.
Craig, they're not irrelevant. Israel allows people of all faiths to come in and become citizens. It's in Israel's constitution. As of 2023, the makeup of Israel's population by religion (CIA factbook):
Jewish: 73.5%
Muslim: 18.1%
Christian: 1.9%
Druze: 1.6%
Other: 4.9%
I would say your own arguments are irrelevant.
Are you being inflammatory? Check out on Wikipedia:
'Arab Citizens of Israel's - are citizens, can vote, serve in the Knesset.
Israel remains the only place in the Mideast where Arabs can regularly vote.
Exactly right
The fourth option may happen after a generation or five of peaceful coexistence. Until then, a two state solution seems best, since peace is more possible with separation.
Not the lands they lost due to wars they started. Will Jews get their properties they lost throughout the Middke East and Eurooe due to actions instigated by others?
Aside from that glib - but true - response, I could add that those lands weren't exactly the Palestinians' to begin with. If you try to undo all of the 20th century, there will be no progress. Instead, start with the here and now: 2 million Arab citizens of Israel and over 6 million Arabs that could be citizens of a new Palestinian state. Jews stay where they are, excluding illegal settlements in the West Bank, secure in their present day home.
I would further add that if Jewish settlers insist on staying in the West Bank after it becomes a Palestinian state, they will become citizens of Palestine and not of Israel. I personally would not give them the choice to stay, but I'm not leading anyone.
Thank you Heather.
It provides a sliver of hope that complex diplomacy can yield peace and security for millions of innocent lives trapped between murderous criminals promoting more violence, suffering, and death.
When I think of the world I dream of -there is a foundation of peace, security, and cooperation across natural or artificial, virtual or physical boundaries. Life, under various economic and political systems is challenging enough and when considering a future with a changed climate, will be even more difficult for current and future generations.
The world must evolve beyond incompetent, corrupt, authoritarian leadership. There are plenty of prisons holding people for minor drug offenses or small crimes against property -while the people who should be in prison are on the ballot instead.
The world must evolve toward societies that are well-educated, well-informed, and engaged.
The people who should be in prison are on the ballot instead…says it all
Indeed it does, Jeri.
Seems the horror never ends, may I live long enough to see a jailbird or two
It’s heartbreaking to see a war between people who have lived on this land together and cannot live in peace. I do not see how this is a genocide. Jorge Santayana wrote “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.” Yes, it’s complicated.
As is the war in Sudan, Irenie. Clearly these are not problems that will be solved by the son-in-law of the former occupant of the White House.
Muslims, Cristians and Jews lived in peace for 2,000 years in Palestine before 1917 when Britain declared that Palestine would be the homeland for the Jews even though it was 90% Palestinian Muslim at the time and was done without their input. Palestinians knew that would’ve required them losing their homeland. In 1948 their worst fears came about with mass ethnic cleansing and massacres.
Jews migrating from antisemitic European countries settled in areas purchased from Arabs by European and American donations. The first British proposition of a land division assigned land to the incoming Jews that was a fraction on the post-war 1948 borders. Arab leaders rejected that proposition and the later UN partition while accepting money for land, thinking the Arab peasants who lived there can fend for themselves. Those Arab peasants, subsistence farmers and day workers, have been pushed around by Arab "leaders" since before 1900. They are victims in this sad saga, most recently victimized by Hamas.
It’s more complicated than that, though what you say is true. I’m reading The Hundred Years’ War On Palestine, and Arab “leaders” also sold out the Palestinians for their own reasons, King Abdullah of (then) Transjordan being one of the most selfish.
It was peaceful pre-1917. the Arab response to the West taking their homeland changed that peaceful coexistence to a self defense stance
Well said, Irenie. Is it needless killing? Yes. Is it completely unhinged? Yes. Are both sides right/wrong? Yes. Is it genocide? No.
Yes it is tragic. I also cannot call self-defence genocide. The allies bombed a lot of Germany to smithereens not to mention the A bombing of Japan. No mention of genocide then.
Epic struggle, have you read of the lead up?
A military response to persistent rocket attacks cannot be called self defense? Let's bring this home. Let's say I am your neighbor and I let your family work in my property, and then some of them throw grenades on my property and injure and kill some of my family, I can't respond? If I respond forcefully and members of your family keep throwing explosives over, I can't go in and neutralize your family members' abilities to throw explosives? I have to wait for police support? Well, actually in the US, I do have to wait for support. Back to the situation in Gaza: In this situation, who's going to stop Hamas' rocket attacks? Who's going to dismantle their armaments used for political terror?
Israel has not occupied Gaza since they withdrew in 2006. Hamas was elected soon after. They are the de facto ruling power. No IDF was allowed to be present in Gaza.
Annie Weeks is correct. Israel unilaterally withdrew from Gaza on August 15, 2005. That included all military and civilians, even by force. The following year, Hamas was elected over the Palestinian Authority, and the terror attacks, almost weekly rocket barrages, started and have continued to this day. You don't hear much about those persistent attacks because they were mostly neutralized by the Iron Dome. The world forgot Hamas's stated mission to destroy all of Israel even though it was trying to achieve exactly that all along. Even Israel failed to watch the Gaza border as closely as it should have, which allowed the Oct 7 attack to be so successful.
Interesting tidbit, Michele.
Hello, Irenie, good to see you again. I can only agree with you.
Hello Anne-Louise. Good to see you, too and discuss serious issues. If only there were acceptable solutions for the challenges between Israel and Palestine. Here in HCR’s Letters we can respectfully share conversations and viewpoints. Onward.
It seems as though permanent war is Netanyahu‘s long term goal.
It's his DO NOT GO TO JAIL card. You know, like his friend in Fla.
Bingo!
Nitwityahoo has released his "postwar plan" - which is to jump in a time machine and go back to October 6, with nothing but opposition to anything about the Palestinians. And the settler scum in his government are agitating for new settlements in the West Bank.
Biden ought to call the other members of the Israeli government, the ones who don't like Nitwit, and tell them that for every dime they spend in the West Bank on the settlements Biden has already said are as illegal as international law has always made them, they lose a dollar from their welfare check. And if they don't get rid of Nitwit, they lose the US political umbrella at the UN and elsewhere. It's time for the Israeli tail to stop wagging the American dog. After what he ordered the IDF to do in Rafah over the weekend, Netanyahu is no better than the SS general who leveled the Warsaw Ghetto; seeing the descendants of the survivors of that doing this today is terrible.
Jon Stewart today also proposed a solution.
M.E.T.O. -- Middle East Treaty Organization -- would unite several regional countries to manage Gaza.
They'd police the borders with Israel and Egypt, and govern as Netanyahu still imagines he can do -- obviously a non-starter, as he'd only let the Israeli far-right exacerbate, provoke, incite more damage.
The U.S.? Its only role seems to be to keep arming Israelis. If the U.S. were a leader, it would also try to do something positive, like begin school programs so Jewish and Arabic youth learning English could also learn essaying skills so they could begin to see each other as individuals, not just remain as units of more blind tribalism continuing to suck up all into the group hatreds.
You state that the role of the US has been only to supply weapons to Israel. It has been sending funds ($Billions) to Jordan, Egypt, and Gaza, and has repeatedly tried to broker peace. Based on today's post, there's some hope that some progress will be made, if only because the current situation is so ugly, even Middle East countries are blinking. Netanyahu has to go, though, and Hamas cannot be allowed to lead and thus hold fellow Palestinians hostage to their nihilistic mission.
Thank you, Jerry.
You've corrected me, nicely opened things to the larger vision you so fittingly encompass.
Some part of me has gone sour. So much I see American schools could do for Americans, so much our educators could carry into the world. But as for breaking the various group-thinks, the tribalisms, the nationalist poisons, the sectarian hatreds -- we're not putting into schools anywhere the skills to see individuals instead, in the larger perspectives you yourself well see.
The U.S. should open schools in Israel? Gaza? The West Bank? I'm not exactly sure how that would work. Should the U.S. State Department rent buildings in Tel Aviv and staff it with American teachers, with or without permission of the Israeli government? In Rafah? Bethlehem? Hmm...
Thank you, Dick.
I'm thinking, use the Fulbright program. Use the Peace Corps.
It will require training of instructors who value the personal in people, who understand how almost everybody in the world has already learned submission to group habits, readiness to kneel to the perversities of machine-gradable standardized testers, and vocabularies full of abstractions, slogans, labels, yet empty of active verbs.
Instructors should radiate love of humanities in one's own culture and more love of humanities in other languages, other cuisines, other cultures.
Life bounces us in difficulties, in the nuances of nature, in the vulgarities of the rich who kill everywhere.
We need to find instructors brave, free enough, in love enough, and odd enough to keep cherishing what one poet once called "that still, small voice."
We also need some government or governments still predicated on law, law which respects individuals, and which stands upon those humanities that have come before us, that have given us grammars, models, details we can exultantly see, note, and love in others.
Your description fits perfectly for a Gazan university professor I met in the US about thirty years ago. He was in DC at American or Georgetown on a Fulbright for a year. He went back to Gaza and taught students to think, weigh both sides of issues, etc. He was fired by Hamas, for not teaching their line. I think he was able to get reinstated. He and his wife could have left Gaza, their children did, I know one at least is in Sweden. But he and his wife did good things for their neighborhood, ran a kindergarten they started, etc. and remained to help their people. This kind, intelligent, caring man was killed in his car while seeking water early in the Israeli bombing. I just asked my niece this morning about his wife, and she said his wife is in Rafah. Relatives and friends are required to pay a lot of money to get her safely out of Gaza and into Egypt. She may get out safely. Most probably don't have the option of that kind of money. So Phil, that kind of instructor already existed but he was killed.
Thank you, Barbara.
Shortly after Oct. 7 I also saw a video of an Israeli counterpart to your Gaza professor.
This Israeli in public asked that all not see every Gazan as continuing replica of the Hamas fanatics, but Israeli authorities arrested him, as you say, "for not teaching their line."
The world needs more of this kind of people,
May be much too late now, Barbara.
The U.S. Supreme Court just ruled that it is doing for Trump just as Netanyahu was trying to get rid of the Israeli courts so he could be the dictator -- for the far right, for the settlers stealing West Bank land -- just as Trump aims to elevate himself for the far right, for the billionaire classes in the U.S.
As another commenter once wrote, "'From your keyboard to God's inbox."
The situation in Gaza is all the more reason to vote for Biden. I may be wrong but isn’t he the first US president to call for a two state solution. That takes tremendous political courage. Remember the Jared Kushner “Peace Plan “ under Trump where he only discussed with Netanyahu and did not include the Palestinians saying (and I paraphrase “this is just about real estate” ( perhaps the most moronic statement ever). Basically they proposed the world’s largest concentration camp.
As Tereresafbrooks noted above the Malcom Nance article of the Russian Iran Hezbollah Hamas coalition I would not be surprised if Trump was part of this also to cause chaos for the Biden administration. Thank you Joyce.
Of course chump is part of it, Bannon has been his international spoiler for years
US politicians always trot out the good old two state solution every time Israel commits an atrocity. As soon as things calm down it’s stopped. This call is very typical.
For most of us, it is impossible to understand what is happening in the Middle East, but it is clear to me that the one thing that must happen is the departure of Netanhayu.
I thought that about chump too, both are still breathing, sad to say.