The Alabama Supreme Court on February 16, 2024, decided that cells awaiting implantation for in vitro fertilization are children and that the accidental destruction of such an embryo falls under the state’s Wrongful Death of a Minor Act.
Wow an early night and a loaded letter. This push for religious authority in our country is truly astounding to me. We must not let the lines between church and state be torn down.
“White evangelical Protestants have experienced the steepest decline. As recently as 2006, white evangelical Protestants comprised nearly one-quarter of Americans (23%). By the time of Trump’s rise to power, their numbers had dipped to 16.8%,” Jones explains. “Today, white evangelical Protestants comprise only 13.6% of Americans.”
These Gilead Grovelers and To-Hell-in-a-Handmaid's-Basket zealots are a small and shrinking minority. Of course they will be all the more extreme and do all the more harm because their power is dwindling. Yes, let's GOTV and help them hasten their demographic demise!
I have to admit, i am sick and tired of these religious fanatics in their attempt to shove their crap down our throats. I will gladly look forward to their demographic demise.
'The Deification of Donald Trump Poses Some Interesting Questions' (NYTimes)
'On Oct. 15, 2020, in a rare display of humility, Donald Trump told a campaign rally in Greenville, N.C., that he was not as famous as Jesus Christ.'
“Somebody said to me the other day, ‘You’re the most famous person in the world, by far.’ ' I said,' ‘No, I’m not.’ 'They said,' ‘Yes, you are.’ I said, ‘No.’ 'They said,' ‘Who’s more famous?’ I said, ‘Jesus Christ.’”
'This exhibition of modesty was out of character.'
'Trump, his family and his supporters have been more than willing to claim that Trump is ordained by God for a special mission, to restore America as a Christian nation.'
'In recent weeks, for example, the former president posted a video called' “God Made Trump” 'on Truth Social that was produced by a conservative media group technically independent of the Trump campaign. He has also screened it at campaign rallies.'
'The video begins as a narrator with a voice reminiscent of Paul Harvey’s declares:' “On June 14, 1946, God looked down on his planned paradise and said: ‘I need a caretaker.’ 'So God gave us Trump.”
'Why was Trump chosen? The video continues:'
'God had to have someone willing to go into the den of vipers. Call out the fake news for their tongues as sharp as a serpent’s. The poison of vipers is on their lips. So God made Trump.'
'The video claims to quote God directly:'
'God said,' “I will need someone who will be strong and courageous. Who will not be afraid or terrified of wolves when they attack. A man who cares for the flock. A shepherd to mankind who won’t ever leave or forsake them. I need the most diligent worker to follow the path and remain strong in faith. And know the belief in God and country.”
'The' “God Made Trump” 'video was created by the Dilley Meme Team, described by Ken Bensinger of The Times as an organized collective of video producers who call themselves “Trump’s Online War Machine.” The group’s leader, Brenden Dilley, characterizes himself as Christian and a man of faith but says he has never read the Bible and does not attend church. He says that Mr. Trump has “God-tier genetics” and, in response to the outcry over the' “God Made Trump” 'video, Dilley posted a meme depicting Mr. Trump as Moses parting the Red Sea.'
'The video, along with Eric Trump’s claim that his father' “literally saved Christianity” 'and the image Donald Trump reposted on Truth Social of Jesus sitting next to him in court, raises a question: Does Trump believe that he is God’s messenger, or are his direct and indirect claims to have a special relationship with God a cynical ploy to win evangelical votes?'
'I posed this and other questions to Barry Hankins, a professor of history at Baylor and the editor of The Journal of Church and State. Hankins replied by email:' “Over the years since, there has been a growing chorus of voices saying Trump is the defender of Christians and Christianity. Trump says this himself all the time,' ‘When they come after me, they’re really coming after you.’”
'There are photos, Hankins continued', “of evangelicals laying hands on him in the Oval Office, which is something that Christians do when they ordain pastors or commission missionaries, or Jan. 6 insurrectionists carrying large crosses and praying as they attack the Capitol. People at his rallies carrying signs that say,' ‘Thank you, Lord Jesus, for President Trump.’ And on and on.”
'I asked Hankins whether Trump’s evangelical supporters' “see him as a Jesus-like figure.”
'Hankins replied,' “I think ‘Jesus-like’ is well put. When the indictments came down during Lent last spring, there were references to the powers of government going after Trump like the Roman Empire went after Jesus.”
'Trump’s evolution into a Jesus-like figure for some but not all white evangelicals began soon after he began his first presidential campaign. As David P. Gushee, a professor of Christian ethics at Mercer University, explained by email:'
'Some of Trump’s Christian followers do appear to have grown to see him as a kind of religious figure. He is a savior. I think it began with the sense that he was uniquely committed to saving them from their foes (liberals, Democrats, elites, seculars, illegal immigrants, etc.) and saving America from all that threatens it.'
'In this sense, Gushee continued', “a savior does not have to be a good person but just needs to fulfill his divinely appointed role. Trump is seen by many as actually having done so while president.”
'This view of Trump is especially strong' “in the Pentecostal wing of the conservative Christian world,” 'Gushee wrote, where he is sometimes also viewed as an anointed leader sent by God. '“Anointed” 'here means set apart and especially equipped by God for a holy task. Sometimes the most unlikely people got anointed by God in the Bible. So Trump’s unlikeliness for this role is actually evidence in favor.'
'The multiple criminal charges against Trump serve to strengthen the belief of many evangelicals about his ties to God, according to Gushee:'
'The prosecutions underway against Trump have been easily interpretable as signs of persecution, which can then connect to the suffering Jesus theme in Christianity. Trump has been able to leverage that with lines like,' “They’re not persecuting me. They’re persecuting you.” 'The idea that he is unjustly suffering and, in so doing, vicariously absorbing the suffering that his followers would be enduring is a powerful way for Trump to be identified with Jesus.' (NYTimes BY Thomas B. Edsall) See like below, sorry that it could not be gifted.
Colette, I think we don't have the whole story. Much of the press has been centered on Trump, MAGA, and White Christian Nationalism with reference to evangelicals. I think readers would find the following of interest.
'It’s been called an “imposter Christianity,” a heretical faith that “sanctifies lies,” and “the most serious threat” to democracy in America.' (CNN)
'That’s how critics have described White Christian nationalism, a deviant strain of religion that has infected the political mainstream. White Christian nationalists believe the US was founded as a Christian nation, although the Constitution never mentions God and enshrines the separation of church and state. Its adherents twist biblical language to justify violence, sexism and hostility toward people of color.'
'But there is another cost to the spread of White Christian nationalism that no one mentions.'
'The relentless coverage of White Christian nationalism is spreading a racist myth: that Whiteness is the default setting for evangelical Christianity.'
'This is one of the unintended consequences of the media and public’s fascination with the subject. Feeding this perception is an avalanche of books, articles and now a Hollywood film on the beliefs of White evangelical Christians — the biggest followers of Christian nationalism. In a February 2023 survey, nearly two-thirds of White evangelical Protestants qualified as sympathizers or adherents to Christian nationalism.'
'The constant linking of Whiteness with evangelical Christianity, though, obscures another major story. There are millions of Black, Latino, African and Asian evangelical Christians who are already profoundly changing America. They represent what one scholar calls the '“de-Europeanization of American Christianity.”
'And these non-White evangelicals will likely not only save the American church but transform the nation’s politics.'
'This future will belong to people like Pastor Peter Lim, founder of a growing congregation of Asian-Americans called “4Pointes Church of Atlanta.” Lim, a Korean American evangelical, says the media’s hyperfocus on White Christian nationalism often renders communities like his invisible.'
'He says he’s attended evangelical conferences where the only people who are featured onstage are White pastors or leaders. He wrote in an essay that Asian-American evangelicals often experience' “perpetual invisibility” — 'akin to what Asian Americans encounter more broadly in this country.'
“You just feel overlooked — your story or your experience is minimized,” 'he says'. “It’s not done intentionally. But you don’t feel like you belong. It tells you that your stories don’t belong. It does hurt.”
'Lim’s experience is the result of a passive form of racism. It’s not deliberate or malign; it’s a sin of omission rather than commission by many journalists, church leaders and commentators who rightly warn about the dangers posed by White Christian nationalism.'
'I’ve done it myself: In the past, when I thought about evangelicals, I only saw White Christians.'
'Why evangelical Christianity may become less conservative.'
'The true definition of “evangelical” has nothing to do with a color or a political party. Evangelicals are loosely defined as Christians who share a “born-again” dramatic personal conversion, who take the Bible seriously or literally and believe they’re supposed to spread their faith to others.'
'Today, however, the definition of an evangelical Christian has been reduced to one category: a White conservative Republican.'
'Click on any story about evangelicals and you’re liable to see a White person, usually a man, clutching a Bible.'
'But it may surprise some people to learn that in 2024, the face of evangelical Christianity in the US is more likely to be brown than White'.
'The numbers tell the story:'
'—According to a 2017 survey, one in three American evangelicals is a person of color.'
'—A higher number of Black Christians — 41% — identify as evangelicals than their White Christian counterparts.'
'—The fastest-growing segment of evangelicals in the US are Latino Americans.'
'—And at least 80% of the members of evangelical student groups at competitive universities like Princeton, Harvard and Stanford are Asian-American, according to one estimate.'
'As Carolyn Chen, a professor at UC Berkeley who is an authority on Asian American religion, said during a 2022 speech:' “Today’s evangelical leaders are not just White men with degrees from Oral Roberts University.”
'Two Asian Americans, for example, hold leadership positions at major evangelical organizations. Walter Kim, a Korean American, is the president of the National Association of Evangelicals (NAE). And Tom Lin, a Taiwanese American, is the president of InterVarsity Christian Fellowship/USA, a nationwide campus Christian ministry.'
'The Rev. William Barber II, a Black pastor and activist who has been called the “closest person we have to MLK in contemporary America,” also identifies as an an evangelical Christian.' (CNN BY John Blake,) See link below.
If Barber feels that he belongs with these “imposter Christians” he will be surprised. That dark skin will get him kicked to the curb every time. I’m constantly amazed at how good people can be hoodwinked by the same methods they have used to hoodwink others, often with good intent, or not.
Fascinating. Last night, I watched an interview with the writer Dani Shapiro, who discovered through genetic testing that her biological father was not an Orthodox Jew but a Christian medical student. Unlike some other nations, the United States has done nothing to document such arrangements, and most sperm donors were guaranteed lifetime anonymity before genetic testing made that impossible. Now, the Christian white right is claiming all those zygotes, I suppose, from the consenting adults who created them. The medical community bears some responsibiity, it would seem to me.
I agree with the others that your post is extremely informative, Fern.
However I also believe that no religion, no matter how demographically composed, has any place in government in the U.S. I think the term 'Evangelicals,' as used by pollsters and the media is a shorthand for White Christian Nationalists. I doubt that the designation is meant to elevate or supress any ethnicity, but to describe a significant MAGA voting bloc. Our rights to freedom of speech, thought, religion, and the vote are what's on the line. We can't lose sight of that. It would be equally odious to live under Sharia or Judaic law.
Thanks, Fern. Having been raised in a Protestant faith (left at 13) I always thought the picture on the wall of the fair-haired, white Jesus was a fantasy, since he was a Jew, and no doubt swarthy with dark hair and eyes. Assuming he lived at all.
Thank you for this, Fern. It makes the point well that white "Christian" nationalism is not Christianity at all, but an alibi using cherry picked prooftexts to justify the kind of hatred and prejudice Jesus Himself unmasked in parables like the Good Samaritan. How they turn "Love your neighbor as yourself" into "America first", I'll never know- except that it's nothing to do with belief in Jesus.
So if these evangelicals take the Bible so literally then what about in 5:11-31 where it says if a woman is guilty of being unfaithful to her husband he brings her before a priest. He makes her drink some concoction and if she’s guilty then she miscarries. I mean if that isn’t an abortion I don’t know what is.
So, the takeaway: while white evangelical Christians are currently the major threat to American democracy, evangelicals who are Latino, Black or Asian also present a threat, though not immediate (apparently.)
Donald Trump has not ever crossed the threshold of a church unless there was a political prayer meeting going on. I know “political prayer meeting is an oxymoron but those people aren’t acting. They somehow believe what they are saying and cherry picking from the Old Testament while we are drily discussing our point of view on HCR, Hubbell, Reich, and Dan Rather. While we were looking elsewhere the chief justice of the Alabama Supreme Court rises up to declare embryos “children” and the Supreme Court of the USA discards Roe v Wade like yesterday’s newspapers. I pray, yes, pray that we prevail in November and send Trump off to deal with his judgements, fines, lawyers for the foreseeable future but the people in that video will still be with us and they do have a program. Read “crusade”
Yes, we see these people as wrong-headed and delusional, but if we can also see them as good people, real people, just like us, maybe we could think more imaginatively than just heading for civil war.
Oh Gawd! They're completely delusional. Really sickening because Trump is more of an antiChrist than anything closely resembling a Jewish carpenter from Nazareth.
The thing is they will all be left behind when the rapture comes because they have nothing in common with the teachings of Christ as found in their own Bibles.
So let's take this comparison to Jesus to its ultimate end. This coming Good Friday do you think we can see trump hanging on a cross or will his bone spurs get in the way? I may be an atheist but I can still be outraged by his co-opting the 'Savior' title!
The horrifying thing is that he'll use his bankruptcy as another badge of martyrdom, just as he's characterized his legal jeopardy as election interference and equated it with Navalny's actual martyrdom.
Yes, they are blinded by their belief. And God takes interest in every little thing they do as I often say God tells them when to fart. I have sat in restaurants and heard some amazing conversations on how these people decide what they should do.
I have one friend that is evangelical and she is sweet but very, very stupid. She really believes every bit of the Bible came from God. Sigh!!! These people are scary.
Yet People of Color can be in churches that are equally evangelical. And some are rooted in some very exclusionary values that have been taking hold in foreign nations where LGBTQ people and women preachers, for instance, are prohibited, even condemned. There are these elements in ‘Christian doctrine’ everywhere. And the same threats to Democratic government present in any denomination exerting power over all.
FERN I just shouted JESUS CHRIST! In discussing Christianity, mentioning Trump as Judas I comprehend (and endorse). But mentioning Trump and Jesus Christ in the same sentence is blasphemy.
‘Forgiveness’ and ‘it is more blessed to give than receive’ are anathema to Trump. And, in the Ten Commandants, Trump clearly covets his neighbor’s ass and, for him, there is no other God before Trump.
FERN We first conversed when most Republicans honored the 1st Amendment. Must have been a long time ago, but sooner than they trashed the 2nd Amendment.
I am just up and haven't had my coffee yet, Fern. This is nauseating. I am reminded of a meme one of husband's relatives from the Lakota branch showing death star with a halo and accompanied by angels. At that point I said something and it didn't please her, so I just blocked her so I didn't have to see anymore of that kind of nonsense. I have told this story before, but one of my ex-classmates, devout "Christian" posted a meme from one of those crazy so-called "Christian warriors" blaming the fires in CA on atheists. I started my reply with "What the hell is this." Then I proceeded to tell her that many of the people who suffered in the fires here in Oregon are rural, likely to be Rs and many of them are Christian just like her. I told her how awful it was and how people lost everything and some their lives. Lots of our friends, some Christian, some not, put up friends and helped out. We made a donation to the big fund for the people up the canyon. It still smells of wood smoke up there. She did back track and tried to say she posted it to show how bad it was which was a giant pile of BS. I don't know how she feels about death star now as she has been mostly silent on political matters....just pictures of the puppy. She did post one recently that I am sure she meant as disparagement of Biden, but I had seen the same one numerous times as disparagement of death star. She should be happy since Dodd. I hope she understand how awful the current Alabama decision is. I doubt it as I am sure she would content with a theocratic state.
This character named God is found in many works of fiction. That name really should be what we call Nature, since Nature is the most powerful of all. Humans seem to fail to listen to what Nature is telling us today: "Humans need me to survive, but I do not need humans to continue my existence. If they are to remain on this planet, they must stop destroying what I have created."
I do believe that God gave us trump. God gave us the most the most ridiculous buffoonish human imaginable as a wake-up call, yet people are still sleeping, following this creep like sheep. His existence has spotlighted stupid Americans like nothing else. For proof look up trump sneakers on ebay to see what they're going for....
Fern, thanks very much for this post. The cult of Trump is growing and increasing in power. It is a belief system and as such reasoning has little effect on the adherents. They need to be "converted" to a new belief literally to end their engagement with the Trump as savior belief...... Not going to happen easily if at all.
Thank you, Grover. I always appreciate hearing from you. What convinces you that DJT's cult is
growing? His party is shrinking a bit; young voters are not enthusiastic about him and Biden; women are, generally, very negative about him, and the MAGA crowd is mostly sixty and older. I think his loses in court and the gigantic sum of money he owes may make him more Christ-like to a few, but I think overall more damaging.
I thought Christians were supposed to be good people who did not commit adultery, steal, kill, etc. They didn't welch on deals and take advantage of the poor. Didn't the Super Bowl commercial show people washing the feet ( a humble act) of all colors and religions? An ad sponsored by a church.
I think trump acknowledges God's superiority only because he thinks he is a very close second. Handmaid Tale al over.
I think the "Christian" nationalist movement is political, not religious. It has infected the evangelical church, whose followers seem predisposed to strongmen figures. Religion is the horse these power hungry folks have ridden in on. They are no more followers of Christ than Adam's house cat. They are SO unlike Christ, who did not force anyone to follow him.
In the words of W., "that is some crazy shit', referring to HCRs comments about Alabama's far far right religious Supreme Court.
Margaret Atwood and Bruce Miller may have gotten the geography wrong for where Gilead will originate, but they are spot onseem to be right about the "seven mountains" HCR mentions. "religion, family, education, media, entertainment, business…and government. " TFFG seems to have spoken about everyone of these and how he will take control of each of them when he regains the Presidency. And Priests and Pastors gush over him for his positions.
It is such a turn-off for most of us to bring religion into politics as Eric mentions with his statistics. Drive by any church when parishioners are arriving and you will see that very few young people attend something the raw statistics don't show.
From the Houston Herald -
"About 4,500 Protestant churches closed in 2019, the last year data is available, with about 3,000 new churches opening, according to Lifeway Research. It was the first time the number of churches in the U.S. hadn’t grown since the evangelical firm started studying the topic. With the pandemic speeding up a broader trend of Americans turning away from Christianity, researchers say the closures will only have accelerated."
With the prevailing philosophy in the Catholic Church and the Southern Baptist church being patriarchal, the trend away from these religions and other with similar ideaology will likely continue.
The early church fathers made sure that the church was patriarchal....lots of Greek influence where women in Athens were never considered adults. They also recognized the power of sex which is why some of them were out in the Egyptian desert sitting on pillars or in caves trying to forget about women and I would bet that is all they thought of. I once again recommend Eunuchs for the Kingdom of Heaven to understand what they thought about sex and women. I came away thinking no wonder we have so many crazy ideas.
John & Eric, it seems that given the power of the idea that James Madison was able to enunciate so clearly in the Constitution, the prohibition of "the establishment of one religion over others attacked a fundamental human right—an unalienable right—of conscience. If lawmakers could destroy the right of freedom of conscience, they could destroy all other unalienable rights" we do a further disservice to the acts of conscience expressed by those who would impose their religions upon us. More useful than mocking and making fun of their beliefs would be to respect their religious beliefs and affiliations but make clear that many of the rest of us do not share those beliefs and therefore will not allow them to impose those beliefs upon the rest of us. The very idea of "imposing" a belief seems incompatible on the face of it. One can impose actions and force words but not beliefs. There is a long and appalling history of the efforts by governments and rulers and religions to impose their beliefs, enough history to demonstrate conclusively that it doesn't work. We owe people the right to their individual consciences and should respect that in our actions and words.
JohnM. Your suggestion to just say "thank you but no thanks" to these fanatics ignores two thousand years of human history. How many heretics have been killed over even the slightest deviation from the "true"faith ?
John, you conclude: "We owe people the right to their individual consciences and should respect that in our actions and words." We should and some can, but I don't think that it is in the DNA of the evangelicals, the "True Believers," to do that. For them it's "all or nothing," IMO.
Respect but vilify, to misquote St. Reagan. All we can do is defend Madison's vision for a free and self-governing people. They can stay and believe as they wish, but get the hell out of government and my panties.
Sadly, they are not a minority in our GOP, and doubting their threat is a dangerous assessment. I am in my mid sixties and as a woman, my children and grandchildren have lost liberties that were taken for granted in my youth. We are at a dangerous tipping point and I hope that, at least a majority of us, is able to control and manage the threat. Part of me fears it may already be out of control.
It is out of control. Like when I was a pup, the Bible was sacrosanct. And, like many young people I ignored it, like I did my advice-giving parents. Later, I checked it out again and was appalled by much. Like many believers, one has to pick and choose. I finally chose science and the unknown over the surety of the first believers (reinterpreted ad nauseam by the most untrustworthy sorts). There is nothing more dangerous than true believers in their righteous bull Schitt. Except when it is swaddled in money…
Nothing infuriates my evangelical sister so much as my reminder that the Bible was written by people. Folks is fallible, I tell her, including their possibly mistaken belief that they're 'inspired by god.' There's another name, scientific, you'll be glad to hear, Jeri, for those voices in they haids.
You can infuriate them further by reminding them that almost every ancient religion has a great flood story and that many other stories in the Bible are myths hading down from generation to generation.
Love Mark Twain who said “The easy confidence with which I know another man’s religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” Says it all for me…
These “true” believers must be following a book I’ve never read which excludes the Bible. They must have skipped the red passages which are the things Jesus actually preached. What is a Christian besides someone who lives Jesus’ words in their daily lives? And how can they do that if they don’t know what he said?
They know, they just prefer their version. A woman I know bragged to me about how she and a couple of her church friends ran off two gays guys from our town. She was so proud, never occurred to her that I might be repulsed. I was, now she knows.
Eric, I recall, after Romney’s presidential defeat in 2012, that Republicans had understood, were they to start winning, they would have to diversify their base. Then, after Trump’s 2016 improbable electoral win with mostly white votes, the thinking started to change and Republicans started recognizing they could hold power indefinitely despite their shrinking numbers.
Ultimately, my thinking is similar to yours. In my mind, however hard we think we can work, we’ll have to work harder and smarter.
J L, Thank you for extending my comment. I simply would add, because the other side has shown it will do whatever is necessary to hold power, Democrats, in my view, have to be willing to engage in war, figuratively speaking.
Too bad their idea of expanding the base was to court this sector. With any luck they'll go the way of women in binders (a pretty apt description of what they'd do to us if we let them). Good thing sisterhood is powerful. We'll see how powerful when we learn how Amy Coney Barrett decides on TFG's blanket immunity. Maybe he should change his name to Linus.
It is war indeed, but many who wear the rapier fear the goosequill. They are way out on limb that needs pruning. Clever students of marshal arts can use the force of an enemy's attack to send the assailant into the dirt.
Republicans have planned this for many many years. Please read “Dark Money” and how the Koch Brother had been planning this
take over of the country. Their motive was to be able to run their companies as they want without any interference from the government or especially the EPA. MAGA followers have no idea that Republicans have since Regan could care less about them..
Back in those days, the only reason I stayed with the Republican party was my belief that they would clean their own house periodically as they did when they let Nixon know he would be impeached. I considered their forcing him to resign as a step in the right direction. That memo shows how wrong I was, the apparent reformation didn't last so much as try to present a cleaner image as they took more behind the scenes. That most obviously to me, changed when they started ramping up the application of the Newt Gingrich/Frank Luntz GoPac memo, "Language: A Key Mechanism of Control," which I can compare to the Buchanan memo going to total non-cooperation, non-compromising, extremes.
That GoPac memo, and a major fund raiser asking some of us select few to fight dirtier than Democrats was the final straw for me to leave the party (about the same time Elizabeth Warren did, though I became Independent for almost all of the last 30 years).
I think the Southern strategy put paid to any self-cleansing. The only way to manifest anyone's vision is to gain power, and your former confreres decided that no deceit was too low to halt their march to power. Gingrich and Luntz just gave them a new vocabulary. They mostly have dealt in fear - that furriners, feminazis and commies would steal all the money and jobs, not to mention pollute their suburbs with dark skin.
Gilead Grovelors , and the Handmaiden’s Baskets…oh my I haven’t even gotten but what # past in commentaries and such wonderful reading….i Love This Group of witties!!!!!
C'mon, Jeri! Of course they're going somewhere - back to the periphery where we'll send them come 11/5. It's up to rational humanists to relegate them to the fringe where they belong. Haven't you seen the statistics that show how huge majorities disagree with just about everything they stand for?
Do you live in a red state; as Stalin reportedly said, It’s not who gets the most votes, it’s who counts them. As the cretins enact one law after another skewing the processes, we just assume that the rules are observed and the good guys win. Work we must, but assume nothing. Otherwise, the asses = u and me.
Eric, I am sensing (and I am a Christian) that these extreme positions taken by “the fire and brimstone” crowd are raising alarm with the rest of the voting public where the issue is no longer specific to abortion, LGBTQ, or some other “sin” ( as such) but rather, it will become personal to citizens that have ignored voting altogether, pitting their very personal beliefs against those of Cotton Mather and radicals such as Speaker “God in human clothes”
When these citizens begin to feel threatened by a Government that forces its religious rules upon them, (King George) sparks will commence and fur is gonna fly. Admiral Yamamoto(?) or somebody said, “I fear we have awoken a sleeping bear”
Careful what you preach Speaker Mikey, your conviction will be your downfall
Thank you Eric - the Washington Post article by Jennifer Rubin, bases on recent statistical analysis let the cat out of the bag. ..yet again. I wonder if the NYTIMES will pick it up?
They are expanding their facility not far from me in an area without a postoffice. It is called Glenn. They may have a Terre Haute address. A school used to sit on the site. I would imagine they purchased the land very cheap from the county. They have a daycare center and another church that is for those that speak Spanish in our area. It is called New Life! It started small. It is rather scary. This is Indiana.
Yes, but how does the country get this "Christian" Nationalist minority under control when they dominate so many courts, state legislatures, and (Dog forbid) if Trump should be elected?
Ellen and Sabine, I would submit that a biblical take-over of the “seven mountains” of life anywhere on Earth is synonymous with Orwell’s “1984” character Syme, a writer of that totalitarian society’s dictionary who stated, “The whole climate of thought will be different. In fact, there will be no thought, as we understand it now. Orthodoxy means not thinking—not needing to think.” I would submit that kind of orthodoxy can kill a democracy—or worse.
For proof, one need look no further than the southern states where the truth about slavery, race, and segregation had been driven from the pulpits, driven from the classrooms, and driven from the newsrooms. It took a bloody Civil War to bring the truth home and then it took another hundred years for the truth to make us free.
Whether, a little over a half-century later, that “new birth of freedom” and government by popular consent “shall not perish” largely is in our hands.
Ransom, When I wrote “or worse,” I had in mind the emergence of a brutal violent authoritarianism wherein anything that might impede national unity would have to be violently eradicated.
Ransom, In my mind, killing a democracy would entail, in our case, a fatal weakening of American civic institutions and also a Presidency eager and able to consolidate power, wherein the rule of law would be subjugated to an individual. The phrase “or worse” foresaw, if not a civil war, a conceivably brutal dictatorship wherein militia squads, for example, could be unleashed on civilian populations.
You had me at "...there will be no thought..." Yes, it's very Orwellian, perhaps more like Animal Farm than 1984. I can name one pig who thinks he's more equal, and after all we already went through 1984 with Ronnie Raygun.
All the same, I agree 100% with your reply to Ransom.
'The Alabama Chief Justice Who Invoked God in Deciding the Embryo Case'
'Chief Justice Tom Parker has long been revered by conservative groups as an architect for the overturning of Roe v. Wade.' (NYTimes)
'In an Alabama Supreme Court decision that has rattled reproductive medicine across the country, a majority of the justices said the law was clear that frozen embryos should be considered children:' “Unborn children are ‘children.’”
'But the court’s chief justice, Tom Parker, drew on more than the Constitution and legal precedent to explain his determination.'
“Human life cannot be wrongfully destroyed without incurring the wrath of a holy God,” 'he wrote in a concurring opinion that invoked the Book of Genesis and the prophet Jeremiah and quoted at length from the writings of 16th- and 17th-century theologians.'
“Even before birth,” 'he added,' “all human beings have the image of God, and their lives cannot be destroyed without effacing his glory.”
'Just as the case, which centers on wrongful-death claims for frozen embryos that were destroyed in a mishap at a fertility clinic, has reverberated beyond Alabama, so has Justice Parker’s opinion.'
'His theological digressions showed why he has long been revered by conservative legal groups and anti-abortion activists, and also why he has inspired apprehension among critics who regard him as guided more by religious doctrine than the law.'
'In a post on social media, Tony Perkins, the president of the conservative Family Research Council, described the opinion as a “beautiful defense of life and the Alabama Constitution.” But critics viewed it as dangerous and deviating from the U.S. Constitution.' “Welcome to the theocracy,” 'wrote a columnist for The Washington Post.'
'Since he was first elected to the nine-member court in 2004, and in his legal career before it, he has shown no reticence about expressing how his Christian beliefs have profoundly shaped his understanding of the law and his approach to it as a lawyer and judge.'
'Those beliefs also informed a vision that, his supporters say, made him a dogged and brilliant architect for laying the groundwork that contributed to the U.S. Supreme Court’s decision in 2022 to overturn a federal right to abortion with Dobbs v. Jackson.'
'In 2022, Matt Clark, the president of the Alabama Center for Law and Liberty, a conservative legal advocacy group, praised Justice Parker for his “courage and relentlessness.” He cited Justice Parker’s writing in past cases as scaffolding for the arguments that successfully challenged Roe v. Wade, which established a constitutional right to abortion and blocks states from banning the procedure before fetal viability, which most experts estimate at about 23 or 24 weeks.'
”He picked apart Roe’s logic when it came to viability,” Mr. Clark wrote in an essay published by 1819 News, a conservative digital outlet in Alabama, referring to a concurring opinion in a case related to a wrongful-death lawsuit involving a fetus that was lost before it had reached the point of viability outside the womb.'
“Fast-forward nine years later,” Mr. Clark, who later joined Justice Parker’s staff, wrote. “When Mississippi asked the Supreme Court to take Dobbs, one of its major points was how Roe’s viability standard didn’t make any sense. And whose writing did Mississippi draw on multiple times to make that point?”
'His sharpest critics have not denied his influence. “What Justice Parker has done is explicitly lay out the road map for overturning Roe v. Wade,” said Lynn Paltrow, the founder and former executive director of the nonprofit Pregnancy Justice, according to an extensive investigation of Justice Parker’s role in the so-called personhood movement that was published by ProPublica and The New Republic in 2014.'(NYTimes By Rick Rojas) See gifted link below.
Will someone please ask, if all fetus are precious and equated to children, then why do we show so little regard for children? Why do we allow them to be neglected, abused, without medical care, and suffer from food scarcity? Why is it that the states that are so fervent in protection a fetus have the worst record for protecting children?
In Texas, where the state will allow a woman to die rather than have an abortion, they've refused federal funding for summer lunch programs, refuse to expand Medicaid, have cut back access to health care for children, have a failed Child Protective System and a failed child foster care system,a failed juvenile justice system, are trying to destroy the public education system, and believe parents should have a right to choose whether or not to vaccinate their children.
It's not about the children. It's all about control. It's about creating a theocracy.
Susan, this is exactly what I have been thinking for quite some time. The abject lack of pre and post natal care, the lack of support for children in poverty, the woeful failures of so called child "protective" services is a disgrace.
It is NOT about children, it is about control of women.
Another consequence of these arcane abortion laws is the lack of prosecution of the 26,000 men that impregnated women by rape and/or incest in the states that have banned abortions. Thousands of these rapists will never be prosecuted even though there is clear DNA evidence. But, hey women lie about being raped is their BS response.
If you haven't read "Freakonomics" there is a case study they did comparing the crime rates before and after when the legalization of abortion in 1973. Their conclusion is that starting in the early 1990's, the violent crime rate in the US dropped significantly. They determined that unwanted babies grow up to be criminals at rates that are much higher than children that are wanted.
Unwanted babies are more like unresourced babies. There mamas simply do not have the resources or even access to resources they need to raise the babies. The help they get in Texas is some diapers and parenting classes. That says a lot about how people understand the problems inherent in having a baby that you cannot afford...because your minimum wage job does not cover the cost of childcare, food, housing, utilities, transportation, clothing...on and on and on. And...if you get support for childcare....typically you have to be working for 60 days until you can access it...if there is space for your child. What do you do with your child for 60 days? Leave it at home (neglect). Find a stranger to watch your child for free...not happening. And then people wonder why the crime rate goes up.
I can think of nothing sadder than an unwanted child, no matter the economic conditions of the family. Fortunately, thanks to abortion laws, birth control and pregnancy termination drugs millions of Americans have been able to live without being forced to care for a child.
My sister's both had "oops" babies when they thought their families were complete. But those kids were loved and nurtured as well as any child. And they grew up to be wonderful parents to their children.
But this isn't always the case of course. And when neither parent wants the child and neither do any other family members, more often than not, very bad things happen.
the Bible says one thing about abortion and that is that it is allowed if a man's wife gets pregnant cheating with another man. And yet, the patriarchal "Christian" religions say that it is wrong.
Agreed. Whether unwanted (I saw a lot of those) or unresourced (many of these), those kids have far fewer options or opportunities. Factor in housing/food insecurity and it’s almost a guaranteed outcome.
“Human life cannot be wrongfully destroyed without incurring the wrath of a holy God,”
IF they truly believe this, why then do they not become outraged at school (and other) mass shootings? Human life is wrongfully destroyed in these events. God must be angry at their lack of action.
Although you didn't ask, I would like to take a stab at an answer, Susan. Part of the mythology of a Christian nation is that God bestows gifts on his chosen. Wealth and health (strength and masculinity) are signs of God's approval of men, and fecundity indicates God's approval of a woman. If a woman, for example, is a single impoverished mother, well, poverty is the wages of sin.
It amazes me how these guys make up conditions and circumstances that favor themselves. Not a humble man among them.
Their theocracy is very much about keeping women in "our place." I think that beyond federal bans on abortion, IVF, and birth control, they would also like to prevent women from inheriting, owning property, or earning our own money.
That's all on top of halting immigration completely, exporting and/or dumping brown people in internment camps, establishing a state media, loosing some kind of military (probably Oath Keepers and their brethren in newly made uniforms - I'm betting the shirts will be brown.) on civilians, dumping out of NATO, and jailing or assassinating political rivals. What could go wrong?
We are truly hearing looney tunes out of tune. My god, cover our ears…. but do not close your intellect. These nut cases are not one tiny bit religious. They are out of control. Say no!
And Susan is totally on point. These power mongers do not care about children. Oh, I know…. Let’s have those “men” who are so anxious to get into your “private parts” have their DNA tested so we can line them up for parenting classes. Also, help them set up their bank accounts so they can pay to raise their children. You know, like God told them!
Then do those embryos have a right to be implanted in a uterus or do they continue their little lives in a freezer until an act of God results in a power failure?
Today's anti-hero is Parker, but Leonard Leo is far more dangerous as he is responsible for every Federal court nomination under Trump. There is absolutely no reason to assume that he won't assume the same role if Trump is reelected.
Crazy far right judges in red states are one thing, Federal judges and Supreme Court justices are quite another.
If Speaker Mike were so concerned about The Sanctity of Life, why would he tank an aid bill to help the children of Gaza and Ukraine? Mike reveals it’s not at all about moral glory, it’s always and forever about more greed/power concentrated in a few male hands.
Exactly. 'God' is just too damn busy to worry about a relatively small number of organisms floating around the universe on an unbelievably tiny speck of dust. I rather doubt he gives a damn, protestations by religious fanatics notwithstanding. One more day on which my decision to treat all organized religion with disdain is proven to be correct.
I've thought for a long time that it's highly unlikely god gives a shit about whether we glorify him/her/it or not. Why would an omnipotent, omniscient, eternal need the support or adoration of puny humans? Even if we're not its creation? We don't care what ants think about us, if they give us a thought at all.
Actually yes, but never saw the Spirit of the Lord as a petty tyrant. At this point I am not religious in any conventional sense of the word, but I admire many people who are. I am troubled by those who claim superiority because God is supposedly on their side. That just seems like aggressive narcissism to me, while Jesus preached humility, conscience and compassion.
I'm with ya, JL, about the image of God as a "petty tyrant" not being appropriate to the image that comes through about God if you look at the totality of God's actions in scripture. There, you find a God of enormous forgiveness, patience, and compassion––bringing people together, commanding that we care for "the widow and orphan," and denouncing the powerful who tread on the poor. Over and over again, God as love is not an angry white guy up in the sky. Notice the language the White Christian Nationalists use for God. Tom Parker speaks of God's "wrath." We are watching the White Christian Nationalists appeal to the God they imagine is the one who will uphold their prejudices. Their version has no open arms and welcome to the stranger. It's all about power-over while the God who Jesus knew emphasized sacrifice. Of the self. Not embryos.
There is a streetcorner in front of a very large church that for a while had people with large signboard attached to them in front of it. One day I passed a man supporting a large sign that read "FEAR GOD". OK, there is Biblical support for that sentiment I suppose, but the Christian "Great Commandment" is to love God and thy neighbor as thyself. To me love involves trust and compassion. And courage. Jesus illustrated the concept of neighbor with a Samaritan, a pariah to his audience. Jesus advised loving one's enemy. Several Bible literalists have stated that is the one part of the Bible that does not say what it seems like. The letter of resignation of diplomat John Brady Kiesling to Colin Powell over Bush II's intent to invade Iraq protesting what he characterized with a Latin phrase attributed to Caligula, meaning "Let them hate us, so long as they fear us,". That callousness would not seem to be what Jesus advised.
There are two fundamental ways to to influence other's behavior, one of which is with threats of violence or actual violence, as we see playing out in Ukraine and in countries where dissidents meet with sudden ends or torture. The other is some element of love, be it a bottom line acceptance of of every being's humanity, or at least a love of the principle of liberty and justice for all. Humanity appears to have been long divided over these two approaches. It is a battle that could potentially bring an end to our own species.
I'm with you, too, JL. Since I was a kid I've believed it is my obligation to live ethically. That's different from mindlessly following the strictures of this religion or that. Religion per se strikes me as another authoritarian that imposes its dos and don'ts on the congregation. I'd rather live without shame.
I generally use the word "shame" conventionally, but I have read that it is useful to distinguish shame from guilt. Guilt is recognition of some measure of unacceptable behavior on one's part, whereas shame indicates the unacceptability of the person. Whatever words are used, some research indicates framing "bad" behavior as worthy of guilt leads to better outcomes than shaming of the person, which can sometimes trigger self-harmful or aggressive behavior.
That said, I frequently brand modern Republicans as "shameless".
Everyone in America has the right to choose the church of their choice just as women should have the choice to medical care including abortion.
We all have or reasons for believing as we do and when I attended church it was because the pastor and most of the parishioners were there for similar reasons and for the most part believed the same thing and chose to praise God and try to be and do what Jesus would.
In 2022, our local food bank had the opportunity to purchase a larger property to better serve the food insecure in our county. They were able to secure a 5 year loan for close to a million dollars. The expansion committee calculated from previous donations that they could probably pay off the loan in 5 years.
One of the ladies on the committee became the chief fundraiser. She attended a church service at every church in our county. She lobbied the state and local governments and met with several philanthropists. In 9 months she raised enough to pay off the loan. But as projects go, there were some glitches which added around $100,000 to the project.
To celebrate this amazing achievement, they held a pot-luck dinner in the new facility and conducted tours. The amazing lady that had worked so hard for over a year to raise the funds sat across from me at the dinner. She is a lifelong Catholic and had invited her priest to give the blessing before the meal.
During dinner I was complimenting her on her efforts and she replied that she felt "the Spirit of the Lord" guiding her efforts and that she felt that it was a miracle they raised the money so quickly. I nodded in agreement which I admit was hypocritical.
First of all, if her religion is her inspiration to help others, great. And I admire her for her humility and the fact that she thanked the donors for their generosity before she praised God. The food bank was founded by three churches years ago, a Unitarian-Universalist church, a Catholic church and a Lutheran church.
Personally, I have never gotten with The Spirit of the Lord even when I attended church. I don't doubt that millions of people feel they have.
As a non-theist, I don't care what anyone else believes. But I do care about the faux-Christians trying to force us to worship at one of their houses of worship when they don't even attempt to understand or follow the lessons Jesus teaches in the Bible. Furthermore, they make up laws that are just the opposite of what Jesus and Jewish law taught like forced birther laws and that rape and incest are just fine.
Sorry for butting in on your question to J.L. Fern, just wanted to weigh in.
Do we think that the insanity, the outright weirdness of this Alabama bad movie nightmare ruling by a Q Anon judge will boost the already powerful forces unleashed by the Dobbs decision? Is this more ammunition for Democratic strategists?
I see two tracks of outrage to "Justice" Parker's statements. The obvious one is the blatant attack on women's rights to reproduce in the manner and time they wish. But the other outrage of this one man tying HIS religion to a court ruling - that is bound to rattle ANYONE who believes in the right to believe independently...to have the faith or no faith of their choice. It flies in the face of all things American.
Maybe this situation is SO outrageous and primitive and downright dictatorial it will fire up some who have stayed on the sidelines in this battle for democracy. One can hope.
These ‘reformers’ wish to create a government which is the source of moral authority to decide all “moral” issues..code for oppression of minorities and women… because they don’t trust the Voting Majority. This was the same thinking the Framers had for constructing the Electoral College. We all know how well that worked out.
You bet Dems will make hay of this ridiculous ruling. Of course whoever dropped the ovatorium or whatever it's called should be docked or something, but for doing his job carelessly, not because the contents were god's creatures. They're not even alive until fertilized, fer Chrissake!
Predestination. In other words, we have no control over what happens. I am sorry, but predestination is just another way of humans saying that humans have no choice. If that was the case, then the all mighty and all powerful God would force humans to follow his/her teachings.
Heather, WOW was my thought too and first word read in the commenting , thank you Ellen.
Humble is not a frequent character trait nowadays. But it is the first I look for , a standout quality of royal leadership . We rub shoulders ,so it’s coined , with leaders every day, they might not know it, but given the chance …they could become great leaders , HUMBLY setting example by their walk and none of it is stuffed down anyone’s throat as the ‘right way’ to be done.
It so ironic ‘the right’ eludes to a political stance -so that now I avoid using. I don’t want to speak it, write it, think it accepting this currency premise . The White Right..my cynic then pops out and ‘tighty whities’ comes next , focus grasshopper!
If this ‘Letter’ doesn’t lay the case to rest …again …nothing will. The principle , so humbly presented , historically preserved , fought for over and over , carries many implications every shoulder ought to carry , and, as you watch the walk ,those shoulders, set the example , The Path , quietly, humbly . Those are real leaders.
Just remember the Crusades. Or any of the so-called holy wars. We kill to be kind. We must heal the benighted savage and bring him to god. Tommyrot. I wonder if they mis-spelled god when they actually meant gold. I wonder if they said dominus vobiscum when they meant Lord, let me dominate.
I read In The Name of God book years ago ,but even before that I was jumped into by LOVE , I was seven. Understood perfectly then, several epiphanies later and more clearly defined The Path I felt ‘Christ’ walked and looked far more those that followed this as the evidence in …my soul?..definitely my heart…but I also saw, see…how manipulation for the convenience of control can use the best for the worst , how people can be mislead, coerced, brainwashed, and abuse all with lavish praise of whatever…more if not usually TALK and not …walk.
Patricia, your reference to "tighty whities" is fabulous. I love your lack of focus as your mind wanders off. Like mine, it is probably to little to go off unsupervised!
🤣🤣🤣 OMG I can’t even hide that..nor any longer try..y’all have to pay attention and finish off my sentences , read between the lines, commas, etc.…my husband (Bless his heart us WVginians say) is so good keeping an eye on me, inspecting any task for completion …such the great honor,,and you …noticing ! 🫶 my nickname in HS ? ‘space cadet ‘ go figure….LOL
Some years ago, I heard a talk by a Presbyterian pastor that said exactly that. Surely their are Churches that reject the claims of fanatics. We should hear more from them.
Check out http:faithfulamerica.org It's an organization led by mainstream Christians, and you don't have to be one to support their fight against Christian nationalism.
This should not be astounding. People with these beliefs have always been here, but were set back into a “government caring for others” world during Franklin Roosevelt’s presidency. They do not recognize that portion of their religion, but choose to believe the “god punishes if you break the rules that men have set” stuff.
It will be a struggle to return to a caring atmosphere, because they strongly believe in “individual responsibility for whatever your situation is” and condemning every “sinner” who doesn’t follow the manmade rules of THEIR church. They have spent many years quietly assuming positions of power and are now exercising it, influencing the “believing” masses.
Ellen, Dr. Richardson referenced a work by James Madison, "Memorial and Remonstrance against Religious Assessment." Here's more of what he wrote.
"The manner of discharging (religion) can be directed only by reason and conviction, not by force or violence.
Because if religion be exempt from the authority of the Society at large, still less can it be subject to that of the Legislative Body. Their jurisdiction is both derivative and limited.
The Rulers who are guilty of such an encroachment exceed the commission.
The religion of every man must be left to the conviction and conscience of every man; and it is the right of every man to exercise it as these may dictate." Amen. (my word)
I sent this information to my senator, who is very religious and supports all of Mike Johnson's words and actions. Haven't had a response.
Say decline with stats only. Their influence is growing steadily. It been just a couple of months that since I was introduced to “Christian Nationalism” first by friends, then by Rev. Paul Raushenbush, Director of Interfaith Alliance, who spoke to The Unitarian Universalist Church of Miami congregation and has been speaking frequently around the Country. You can view his talk here and it begins at about 52/53:00z. https://www.youtube.com/live/eqfu3ZeGKOM?si=_SqmgSRztedyeL2I . Since then I’ve been more keenly aware of this movement since it is hard to detect without having it brought to my attention. There is also a book by Katherine Stewart “The Power Worshippers” I encourage all who need more specifics to read. Published in 2019, the author writes about her research and investigation into this group beginning in 2009 while her daughter was in elementary school. She witnessed a group meeting at the school and curiosity gave her enough information to go further. This group is indeed small at this time. A few folks with A LOT of money and influence who know how to play the public just like the current Republican front running candidate. Of course he’s riding on their coattails…
The only way out is super majorities and the only way of achieving this is moderation not progressive politics. I have written on this ad nauseoum and don’t need to go into specifics. We can be our own worse enemy.
I think that, if a survey were to be done, most actual Christians and their denominations would insist on separation of church and state. I am a member and retired pastor of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (Evangelical in the original sense) and our ELCA believes strongly in that separation and has said so publicly many times. I suppose the problem is that we tend to be too quiet; time to speak out once again for the separation of church and state.
Please do. Speak out loudly and often. I'm not religious and it's easy for me to point at religion as a cause of more problems than cures because of the outsized effect of certain types of religious movements which certainly don't reflect the whole. Evangelicals are engaged in a war against the rest of us. It's time we recognized it and acted accordingly.
Oh, but they do reflect the whole. Organized religion has been the bane of human existence for thousands of years, mostly because religion is used to divide, not unite.
As a devout Roman Catholic, I suspect I am in a minority of participants to this site, which is just fine. I do not think the efforts by some to make the U. S. A. a Christian nation are rational and if those who desire such are successful, it could likely be a major step towards the unraveling of the political and social constructs in our Country as we know it. Quite a number of years ago, Robert Drinan, a Jesuit priest was a congressional representative for ten years, from the State of Ohio. Pope St. John Paul II required Drinan (and other priests and religious) to remove themselves from political office. Drinan complied and had a distinguished career as an academic and author. The point I am trying to make is that organized religion can operate within the framework provided by the First Amendment of the Constitution guaranteeing among other things, the "free expression of religion, and the freedom to not practice religion." This has existed, relatively successfully, for over 200 years. But certain people holding or seeking to hold political become enamored with the political and social environments found in such places as Hungary, Russia, and Turkey, etc.
I was raised in what I would call a "Very Catholic home". My mother went to a Catholic girls boarding school, my dad converted to Catholicism to marry my mother, my brother and I went to a Catholic school and had nuns (Immaculate Heart of Mary) for teachers. Our vacations were trips to visit the nuns that were my mothers teachers and we almost always stayed in the convents with them and my brother graduated from a Catholic College where his teachers were Jesuits priests...you get the idea.
Thank you Peter. I think there are good people everywhere and it sounds like Robert Drinan was one of them. Unfortunately, there are many who were or are not like him.
I would say that I left the Catholic faith mentally and emotionally when I was 14 and in 9th grade. I witnessed the abject cruelty of the nuns and how theiy wielded their power over the students. If you were weak, they reveled in "putting you in your place". After I watching them physically beat and expel a girlfriend of mine who came from very difficult circumstances I knew what hypocrites they were. I left totally as soon as I went away to college and have never looked back.
I am not trying to say that all Catholics (or religious people for that matter) fall into this category but the fact that women still cannot become priests or that the church is still run only by men just shows how hieretical it still is. The current pope has tried to change and modernize the church but many priests and cardinals fight him all the way. This is about power, not religion.
Many wars have been fought in the name of religion. In my mind, religion is a made up excuse for people who want to justify their actions that either they do or don't do things in the "name of God". I am sorry, this is just my jaded viewpoint.
I support that, and having left the segregated Southern Baptist church behind in the seventies, it was obvious to me that women were right behind people of color in the hierarchy. Nevermind that a coterie of female teachers and mill workers raised most of the money for the missionaries the denomination sent to Africa and Latin America. (Those converts, of course, would be shunned in the denomination's churches in the US.) The women of my mother's generation cooked tirelessly for men who ran the whole operation but were never given any status. Now any congregation with a woman in the pulpit can no longer be a member of the Southern Baptist Convention.
It is really sad. I think when women started demanding more status at home, in the workplace and in some churches white males became frightened of what would come next. I have female friends who left an Episcopalian church in my little town when it wouldn't allow a female priest. For them, it was lucky there was another one not far away that was much more open and had a female priest, a food bank, welcomed people of color, and an outreach for people who were LGBTQ, etc. etc. so I know they exist.
Human beings of every race and sex seem to include some who live to try to dominate others. That said, traditions of dominating and restricting women are widespread around the globe. It makes no sense except from the standpoint the power tends to corrupt. Some governments enforce prejudice and others moderate it. I think we as humans need to pay much closer attention to human nature, and its impact on our our own individual and societal lives.
One of the constraints of offering opinions on sites such as this is that few of us spend much if any time in downright dig-in research! Indeed, women are still held back in many ways and many professional occupations are still outside their reach. However, there are more women police chiefs, district attorneys, prosecutors, judges, hospital CEOs, university presidents, etc. (not 'downright dig-in research'), and more. Someone might respond by saying that what women have achieved is only a 'scratch on the surface' of broad opportunities that offer upward mobility.
Yes , I have a catholic upbringing too. My uncle was traumatized by the nuns in Houllton Maine back in the 40s. I think true god is found in the natural world, like many Indians have said.
Thank you Mary Pat. I will look into finding it...however, how much more indignation can one take after seeing what the orange menace and his cronies are getting away with!?
Thank you, Mary Pat. " Playing God" shows the trajectory to the Right of the USCCB (United States Conference of Catholic Bishops). It is an example of a leadership body aligning itself in a politically partisan way and getting funded for it by the Leonard Leo's of our time. There is no doubt in my mind that the 28million dollar Eucharistic Congress coming up in Indianapolis is funded this way.
So the Conference is pro- birth, not pro-life; politically transactional as opposed to the common good; pietistical in language, hypocritical in action; and, anti-Pope Francis's efforts to transform the church out of its clericalism and patriarchy. A handful of Bishops speak out against this trajectory; a large number are complicity silent; enough have bought into it and are vocal, whether out of conscience or out of concern for their church careers.
Not all U.S.Catholics followed the far right bishops, choosing the other path in this particular fork in the road. And, of course, many younger people just completely ignore the organized church of their parents and grandparent. As a body the US Bishops are looking back and seeing fewer and fewer folks following. They are worried and do not know what to do except to resort to the familiar MO--pray, pay and obey.
Thank you for this sad (and scary?) summary of The Church today. I have experienced this at a more personal level: a brother who won't get vaccinated because the priest said not to; a dear friend who echoes Amy Conan Bryant on birth control; the wife of a diocesan official who is kept in her place. All intelligent and good (if blindly obedient) people. It is an unholy war against the gentle leader I call "Pope Saint Francis." Let us pray...
To paraphrase: "Oh, what glory there is, when men of God suppress all others." Or, when their self-righteousness leads them to believe that they, themselves, are divine.
I absolutely understand. My attitude is not something I am comfortable with but I cannot receive a spiritual message from a place where there is so little love for and so much judgement....as if any of us are perfect...that is the whole purpose of faith...we are supposed to love as Christ loved us ....He did not judge but gave Himself up for us and we are to love one another in the same way.
While I have sadness reading your post, and while I am very aware of the abuses of priests and religious, I remain with Catholicism due to the Eucharist - the source and summit of my (and millions of others) faith. The organizational struggles that accompany a quest for change within Catholicism have been, and will continue to be challenging for Church leaders and laity alike. I believe the Holy Spirit will guide and bring clarity to leaders and laity, as well. The Church needs my prayers just as well as my other prayer intentions.
My guess is that a majority of Catholic nuns are sweet and generous people, yet among my friends and acquaintances over many years I have heard some really disturbing stories of cruelty they experienced or witnessed in Catholic School at the hand's of nuns. It's rather baffling to me that such a thing would be tolerated. Jesus so far as I recall always prescribed kindness.
Peter Connor, yes certain people are taken by the love of controlling, exploiting, and harming people not serving them. Somewhere in them, they know it's wrong, so they sadly use religion as a rationalization and justification.
Drinan was my Congressman before he was forced to end his political career by the Archdiocese of Boston and replaced by Barney Frank.
Both men were hugely popular despite their human frailties that most of us succumb to at times. That humanity made both men great representatives because they combined intelligence, courage and empathy.
I am a person of faith as well but I cannot find a place to worship where "living out our faith" by loving all and serving those in need without prejudice is most important.
I'm 'just an Irish guy' who can walk into a two man fight and make it three! All I can say Emily, is pray for the intervention of the Holy Spirit to help you and others on your journey. Pax Vobis!
Speaking of Irish, I have become a fan of two Irish poets (who were good friends) explore spiritual issues is ways that resonate for me: John ODonohue and David Whyte.
Robert Drinan, a very good man, was a representative from Massachusetts. He opposed the Vietnam War, supported the impeachment of Nixon and, while in office, supported a woman’s right to choose.
Yes, I agree that organized religion can operate within the framework of the 1st amendment. But read "Playing God" by Mary Jo McConahay. Our organized religion can also destroy it.
We don’t hear much from the religious left, do we?
In my experience, they tend to mind their own business, don’t impose their values on others, and generally focus more on social justice. A very different world view than the religious right.
J. Edgar Hoover branded MLK a "communist" and tried to bring him down. I read that the Denver PD put Quakers on a "Terrorist Watch List" after 9/11. Somehow non-violence is considered a threat.
And even more so, Teilhard de Chardin SJ. It is love that is evolving, in its many forms, parental, intimate, social care, friendship, and altruistic, etc. Such attempts to control others only holds back the inevitable unity of all humankind that may take centuries but will indeed occur. We can influence that process but not force or control it. Back off extremists of Christian, Muslim, or any other roots. Freedom is essential to the process.
Teilhard de Chardin was one of my heroes in my late teens. I think that a loving society very well might evolve (if we really want one) if we don't go off the rails first. Evolution will continue with or without us. It's been so long since I read Teilhard de Chardin that the details have faded, but I know I carried away some of his way of thinking. we seem to have an inward and outward nature, a freedom within and a freedom in relation to our environment. Social freedom is a shared responsibility, we protect it for one another.
It’s not just that we’re too quiet. (I ‘m a retired Episcopal priest) The Christian Nationalists have created an organized political movement. Organizations like Ralph Drollinger’s Capital Ministries have infiltrated the highest levels of our government where they lead “Bible Studies” that are policy guides for lawmakers. These organizations travel the country speaking to conservative preachers and hand out “sermons” and voters guides that advise congregants how to vote. And in the meantime, mainstream churches focus on quilting blankets for homeless people. A kind gesture but not quite enough in this moment.
Please do speak out, Patricia. If anyone can reach the fanatics (and that's a big if) it will be people they consider "of faith." My own faith count for less than nothing with them.
I’m afraid the “Christian” nationalists aren’t listening to anyone outside their cult. But I just read that some Republicans are growing uneasy because of the fanaticism.
If the seven mountain mandate is followed, the population of the US will be living in fear, much as the people of Russia or any authoritarian nation does.
I actually had that same thought when I heard one commentary exploring the fact that one could go back before fertilization to determine that a life was taken. And bless his heart, Michael Moore had a whole riff on Ari Melber's show about men paying attention to the fact that millions of "insert euphemism here" were destroyed every time you...you know. Sigh...it's come to this. I'm going to be post carding and phone banking quite a bit in these next months!
Add to that 😂 thought: The number of years behind bars you can expect as a maintenance worker cleaning out contaminated IVF repositories which is a fairly common occurrence. Is the organization in which the contamination occurred liable for wrongful death? Thinking about the new corporate and professional liability insurance product ....hmmm
Got to more people dying from wind turbines than nuclear power and am taking a long pause. Will continue after a few more sips of coffee. 🤯🤬 Thanks for the link!
I know, right? I think the fact that I've heard such nonsense from a number of the House Republicans and their leader, I mean their real leader, makes it clear to me how little they think of the folks in their base.
Judith, the next step is ruling that IUD’s and morning after pills prevent implantation of a fertilized egg, while birth control pills make the uterine lining inhospitable, so they need to be outlawed since they lead to the possible destruction of a fertilized egg.
Basically, you (and your doctors and medical professionals ) break the law if you try to have more or fewer children than the church leaders believe that their God intended. After seeing two women die in childbirth because they chose to keep getting pregnant (their priest told them that using birth control went against God’s will), I shudder to think how many more will die because of these laws. Right now, it’s estimated that 26,000 women in Texas have had to continue carrying their rapist’s child. Luckily, unlike in Minnesota, if clear evidence points to the rape having led to the conception of the child, the rapist has no parental visitation rights.
Ted—it’s been proven that free, easily available contraceptives reduce abortions more than antiabortion laws (by 62-78%). Imagine what would happen if tubal ligations, IUD’s and hormonal birth control along with vasectomies were free and easily available.
Mary Hardt, brilliant, Never thought about it that way --- contraceptives prevent abortions. But then abortion isn't really their objection. Not being able to control women is.
MLRGRMI, I think some may want to prevent sex (or maybe just sex for pleasure but not for breeding), and some want to control the who, what, where, when, and how of it. They are very sick people.
These white conservative christian Republican males sure don’t ever bring up male masturbation do they? Guys would be sentenced to a millions of years for murder. It’s really about voter suppression. Couples that can afford IVF, are typically well to do, educated, 30-40s. Their kids will most likely turn out to be more educated, and better off. These people tend to vote Democrat. And WCC’s don’t like that.
I read an article awhile back that the state of Texas was trying to pass a law that if a woman had a miscarriage she could be imprisoned for that. That was about the most barbaric thing i had ever heard of. These religious fanatics have completely gone off the rails. That is cruelty to the extreme.
And why are men not immediately forced to pay child support upon conception??? And why may men take viagra if it’s not God’s will that they have an erection???Sorry-the hypocrisy is stunning.
And how about in all of the 26,000 rapes that resulted in pregnancy in the forced birth states, that based solely on DNA evidence they must pay child support fees until the child is 21. But, they also need to be punished for the rape and be released to work off their debt.
I am 67 years old. I will never forget the book my mother gave me to explain the facts of life, and it read that mensuration was the uterus "weeping because there was no fetus"
This is not a joke,.
It also stated that when women became engaged, they should start taking their fiances socks and washing them, to prepare for housekeeping as a wife!!
Legal domestic abuse of chattel will return, legitimized only makes sense... as we are told what "they" intend. Bridel MTG please! Absolutely! ~ Get out and vote.
What a fascinating historical analysis tying so many things together, many of them I hadn't known. But taken as a whole the professor's commentary also evokes horror, horror at the crazed zeal with which some people are pursuing a theocracy.
The Mike Johnsons and Tom Parkers of our world have a common characteristic: they claim to know what their god wants and dictate that everyone must embrace their views. Step back from that a second and think about what it says about them — and the danger it poses.
Is it not, at least in spirit, the Taliban or some other grotesquely pious and hypocritical "religious" like-minded group that wants to control literally everything — including our very thoughts?
Not only what god wants, but who or what god is! And it's not just white men.
This made me remember a groundbreaking book from 30 years ago - The Chalice and the Blade - Our history Our future, by Riane Eisler. She called her studies "cultural transformation theory," that is transformation of human history from a partnership model (Chalice) to a dominator model (blade), and how we can evolve to partnership model again. She brings in all manner of sciences and I'm suddenly feeling the need to go read it again - LA Weekly said it "may be the most significant work published in all our lifetimes." Google: "Riane Tennenhaus Eisler is an Austrian-born American systems scientist and author who writes about the effect of gender politics historically on society." Between Heather and Riane, (and Jessica, Robert and Simon!) I'm feeling hopeful again!
Brenda Phillips, they have created God in their own image. Just substitute their name because it really is them who want to harm and obsessively control people.
J L Graham, our churches have buried a lot of truths for the love of the power. On PBS's "Nuns on the Bus" documentary, some traveled to an ancient church, in Eastern Europe I believe, to see a mosiac at the alter that showed an equal number of women and men apostles. The nuns said dang the church always told us we couldn't give sacrements and be equals to the male priests and here is the proof that we use to be equal in power to the men in the church.
But alas, we humans are waking up to ourselves, becoming more reflective and aware, and so rapidly evolving for the better. But to hold onto hierarchial power, some are doubling down, becoming even more violent, even more unconscious, devolving as the GOP, religious extremists, militias, etc are.
Supremacists always have a story about why their club is naturally superior to everybody else, often by "breeding" as feudal aristocrats used to (and I think still do ) argue. Then you have to ask what you are breeding for? Royal families were getting a bit too inbred there. Then there is race, which science regards as all but insignificant. I recall Richard Feynman speaking of student days in which he was inducted into a honor society in which the honored spent all their collegial time discussing which of their peers was worthy enough to be in the honor society. I know what it's like to have an ego, but it does us no favors, and sometimes very substantial harm when we let it run the show.
Does it occur that rather than true believers these bullies are hypocrites who have found a a lucrative niche for themselves. A path to power and wealth, cloaked in piety. Mining credulity. There certainly is precedent.
Steve Martin's Jonas Nightengale in "True Believer".
I think the fool who rushed into the Comet Ping Pong Pizza place, gun blazing really thought he was rescuing abused children. Manipulators like Trump who craft and spread lies know very well what they are doing, and are proud of it.
We—each and everyone of us reading this—we must all stand up, speak out and fight for our values NOW, if we want to keep our freedoms and defend against these white, Christian nationalists whom the wealthy, well-connected few have enlisted to distract and divide, so they can invoke minority rule over the majority of us.
The racism, nativism, misogyny and LGBTQ-hatred is intended to stoke fear because they loathe progress, equality, justice and our basic human rights.
We are literally seeing a “revolt against the future—the future will prevail,” but only when we ALL recognize our own agency and power to stand up against kleptocratic fascists like Putin, Netanyahu, Tr*mp and all his MAGA criminal co-conspirators.
Every measure of progress—the end to British tyranny, human enslavement, women’s suffrage, reproductive freedom, and the freedom to love who we love…every measure has ONLY ever been ceded because, together, we the people demanded, struggled, and persevered for it—we can and will win again!
Leonard Leo's gang of malignant narcissists Catholic zealots are bank rolling the 'Hate Thy Neighbor' campaign. The Christian Nationalists movement is growing. Watch out for the Joshua Generation. This isn't some half-ass bullshit here. This is a war on democracy. This is a war on women. Texas views women as chattel. They are pulling out the big guns. The GQP is the party of Putin. Holy fuck! The enemy is within. The United States is under attack by its own citizens and American Oligarchs that are using religion to own our ass.
The two sides of the fascist coin have always been the autocrat and the theocrat. Been that way for 8,000 years. Let us show them the wrath of an unholy electorate come next November.
Exactly James. I read Wallstreet is anticipating a Red Wave in November. Like the same one they said was coming in 2022? Who in fuck are these people? A blue tsunami is coming. They'll need scuba gear.
Getting ready to be able to donate more. Dems use my meager bucks wisely. It’s likely my last hurrah! Hint, no more emails to me. How about billboards.
I like your opening word. And you’re right. Everything you’ve laid out is exactly why the religists are trying to push everyone who doesn’t fit the WASPm role.
Indeed, I am aware of no one else who can routinely and so clearly, map historical context onto a present-day situation to highlight societal contrast like Heather can. Truly an enlightening beacon. She and Joyce Vance regularly set off sparks in my brain with their formidable acumen and ability to parse and describe concepts and events that can resonate (and thereby connect) with so many minds.
The time for that action is rapidly disappearing. The conservative Christian movement has been in overdrive ever since W enlisted them in the effort to re-elect his father.
It's interesting to note, by way of showing the evolution of evangelicals, that in the early 90s, evangelicals were quite concerned about climate change. However, oil company backed organizations, such as the Cornwall Alliance, who published a manifesto and crushed the movement to save the planet in God's name, with a mixture of denialism and Free Market Jesus insanity. I wrote a paper about the evolution of evangelical thought about climate change in law school and ended up reading some truly horrific screeds. That was in 2011 and it's only gotten worse. The first inkling of this kind of Dominionist thought was from James Watt, Reagan's Secretary of Destroying the Planet, oops, I mean Secretary of the Interior.
Follow the money and you'll find oil companies sponsoring this organization. I also read some books that were far more frightening. Sadly, what was outlier philosophy in 2011 has become mainstream for conservatives.
Well, they are both. At least at this point, we probably could not sterilize the entire planet if we gave it our best shot. On the other hand, species can be very fragile, and anthropocene extinctions are proceeding at a terrifying rate. Our could well be among the casualties. Ecological self-correction often involves nasty population crashes. We seem to be endowed with enough sense to avoid some of the slings and arrows nature can deliver to us, but we have to get our priorities straight. Road rage mentality has a very poor prognosis.
Thanks for this post/link Edwin. I have realised recently that trust is on the chopping
block. Not that it hasn't always been part of us ,but now with the internet we have more interaction with it. Saddle up and grab the reins cause AI will only intensify the
Sometimes you have to remember a line that annihilates the idea that white men have dominion over their "subordinates:" "A man is not a plan." Fani Willis
But the men, and women, who are trying to impose their fundamentalist religion on the rest of us just might succeed if we, the majority, can’t muster enough votes in November. Their plan must be defeated
Got that right Mim: Recall that circa 10/13/20 at her appointment hearing, Amy Coney Barrett refused to answer the question of whether criminalizing IVF was constitutional using the standard doge that the issue could come before SCOTUS ... now even more likely.
The ongoing attacks post-ROE of women's rights, family rights, indeed, human rights must be defeated.
I come from the targeted marketing and sales background. So my approach, mentioned previously by me, and another yesterday is what recommend. Tkae a friend (maybe for christians, another Christian) and discuss with them the perversion of their faith and the real dangers of combining Church and State(there are soooo many examples). Bring them "off the fence" to the Biden side and double the impact of your vote. If enough of us double, triple, multiply our votes through friendly discussion and teaching, we are doing a valuable job in beating the Mango Muffin and his Christian Fascist hordes. That's what some of us are doing. Not that your approach is wrong, I just can't ring on doorbells...I feel like a politician.
Yes Bruce - we need to copy the strategy of the Mormans, but first we need to assemble the phalanx of determined youth (they are there - but how do you "gather them to the fold?"
Youth is already at it for themselves, but you can help by donating, joining or spreading the word. https://www.turnup.us/. One of us mentioned them the other day. They are already working the youth side, and from what I can see, quite effectively and with a whole pile of ENERGY.
Oh please, I thought that the Mormons that I knew were “salt of the earth” people. Then I realized that they had a missionary zeal that would overrun us all…
More than gerrymandering. They are desperate. Voter suppression, purging registered voters, filibuster, electoral college, a house that doesn’t want crease with population. The small red states have too much power. The framers gave too much power to the minority to prevent oppression by the majority. ( mainly to get enslaver southern states to agree and sign the constitution.European democracies have evolved much faster and fixed their constitutions to prevent the abuse by the minority.
D4N, "gerrymandering" has been defeated in some such as Michigan. Additional representative districts have been added in some states that have been missing since 1783 such as Georgia. New political landscapes require new political tactics & up-to-date voting strategies based on accurate data.
That’s is true but it’s also doesn’t address this fact. The larger the turnout, the more people that vote, D’s typically win that race. We outnumber R’s. The way they win is gerrymandering, the electoral college, a house that isn’t expanding with population, voter suppression, a senate that from gerrymandered states represent a minority. The filibuster. These are all anti democracy and need to be addressed. There is a ton to learn so that when we have the power, we fix the system. Sharing this book with the herd, Tyranny of the Minority.
Ted, I don't think the house could function with more members, but if we got to weight the votes; if a California Representative had a district that had 1 million voters, that Representative's vote should have proportionally more "weight" than a Representative whose voters number 100,000, it would truly be representative government. Same in the Senate. Keep it at 100, but let the Senators from CA or NY have more clout than Senators from WY or RI.
We live with many myths about our democracy. Our Constitution was written in 1780s. We are less of a democracy than most European democracies that are half as old as the US. Norway is a great example of a younger democracy grading higher than we do. Germany has a great system that corrects our founders mistakes concerning tyranny of a majority that have been manipulated to a real tyranny of the minority. Today, less than 40% of the population has control and possibly could turn our democracy into autocracy. That alone should concern us enough to examine all the ways that are making possible the unthinkable. Everyone should read Tyranny of the Minority-Livitsky
When we see it in all its naked self-righteousness, we must call it out for what it is. The vast majority of the USA recognizes theocracy as a passel of snake oil peddlers and wants no part of it.
How do you figure? It might appear that way from a distance but the reason that conservatives support Israel so fiercely is to fulfill the Biblical prophecies in Revelation which state that Israel must go back to its historical borders in order to hasten the return of Christ. Evangelicals have contempt for Jews who they see as heading to the hot place unless they accept Jesus as their personal savior. It's the state of Israel they support. Which is pretty horrific. Religion in general seems to largely be a way to reduce human beings to members of a group and inevitably, you get people in the group who outdo each other in their displays of piety that resort to crushing others for power and profit. Their Jesus has no love.
Who talks about love? The US sends every year 3.8 billion dollars to Israel - a country with a population (Jewish part) of just above the people living in New York. Israel has public healthcare and pretty much free education. Nice of the States to supply that, considering its own population doesn't have it. But hey, you do you :)
This is a serious problem, fueled by evangelicals who want to see Israel regain their biblical borders in order to trigger Revelations. The whole thing is so sick.
Í don't think it's about the religion, that's just the story to keep the stupid masses on side - the wars for the last resources have started is my guess, there are already plans drawn and applications lodged for mining in the Mediterranean, the Palestinians are in the way. It's always about the Benjamins. We all know that America comes, yelling "FREEDOM!" as soon as it smells oil somewhere.
In addition - considering the current American government consists exclusively of people of Jewish faith, except the president and the minister for defence, the Palestinians have a snowball's chance in hell, although about 85% of the world's population is in support of Palestine. Very interesting to follow the cases against Israeli occupation of Gaza and the case of Israel committing genocide that are in front of the International Court of Justice in Le Hague. Of course a shame that the highest court in the world is just something the US listens to if it's in its own interest, the hypocrisy is just beyond the pale.
However, even worse to me personally as former German is the fact, that Germany defends Israel against the genocide charges, mainly with the argument "it's not a genocide, really" and goes on happily supplying weapons to the mass-slaughter, a fact that is of course held pretty much away from the German public. The idiots are currently running through the streets with "Never again!" signs, and they don't mean the Nakba.
A German saying is "I can't eat as much as I could throw up" that's pretty much my status at the moment.
While we have Jews in government, they are, for the most part, not Zionists. Our relationship to Israel is complicated by a number of factors, but the evangelicals are far more interested in supporting Israel in their aggressive actions as a bloc than any other group. But you are absolutely spot on. Hypocrisy is us (U.S.).
No religion should claim the right to slaughter innocent human citizens...starve them....push them out of their homes...allow for the neglect of women birthing babies as well as the baby itself....allow for the slaughter of young children, take away food and water, remove any form of necessary medical care for those who require such to live with a need for such care, shut down access for education that will effect these populations for years. By taking these cruel and unnecessary actions the enemy is also creating hate. We wonder why there are groups like Hamas. We are partly responsible for the creation of these groups because of our prejudicial and violent actions ...all for personal power. Religion is used for this purpose....but the real reason is personal power...religion is used to acquire the citizen's acceptance of such cruelty.
WE MUST STOP THE KILLING AND THE TAKING OF LAND THAT DOES NOT BELONG TO US!!!.
Edwin...many of us have added such false beliefs to our religions. These beliefs are not true but added to justify killings....added to control territory that is NOT ours.
The past is the past...we must learn to live and to work together if we are going to give our children hope and a future.
In my opinion, our resources should be used to build up, NOT to destroy!!!
Our choice of faith or not should be to support life NOT to destroy !!!
The appropriation of Zionism by Evangelicals is to promote the in-gathering of Jews to hasten the Second Coming when Jesus will convert them or damn them for eternity.
We are in the phase of the rule by the minority. Speak up majority. Make Falwell’s prediction of rule by the silent majority true, only turned upside down.
Attribution of your own perverted beliefs to the power of God in your life is as old as the hills and as tenacious as a wolf trap. Being content with your status as a slave is straight from the Pauline letters. And I would rephrase what Jesus, a very smart and observant man said. "There are loads of people who spout BS and pretend it came from God. Keep your guard up and don't fall for it."
Young people, I have been told, have been abandoning religion. Let's hope so!
When someone tells me their invisible friend is the master of everything, that their imaginary friend is talking to them, and we all have to do what their imaginary friend says -- and somebody wrote it down, you know -- the conversation has taken a turn off a cliff. But it happens often.
Their imaginary friend is not the boss of me. Or my country.
This sort of line has been indoctrinated in many if not most of us from an early age, me included. It wasn't easy to break free from it.
We have had religious freedom in the USA, but that has to include freedom *from* religion.
And -- stupidity is not a religion.
we have a hell of a lot of work to do this year, best luck to US - b.rad
ps thanks professor, amazing work, I know I say it every time, it's more than due
Brad, I’m closing in on my 75th year, and I, not once, had “religion” to lose. Just wasn’t the way of my family thank god (pun intended) going back at least three generations. Yet being secular, we were always taught compassion, kindness, lending a hand and contributing to the commons we all share. Took a course in college on religions of the world and found it very fascinating as well as horrifying at the cruelty done in religion’s name. That said, I do have lovely chats with the women who periodically (not since Covid however) came to my door with the Watchtower pamphlet….they knew that I was not religious, but I would bid them farewell by saying “may the Force be with you”.
Same here. I enjoyed bantering with the Witnesses. It was almost always the same small group. They were older, like me, and I enjoyed their company for those brief periods. One day I walked with them across the street to their car, and we introduced ourselves. The man introduced himself as "Sam", and with a smile he asked if I remembered the singers from the '60s, Sam and Dave. I said I did, and always enjoyed their music. He suggested it would be easy to remember each other's names as Sam and Dave. I would be happy to have them as neighbors and friends. But I will retain my very personal beliefs about religion, because I did not arrive at my beliefs easily, nor quickly.
The media always couches the absence of butts in pews as “people leaving his”. But I view it as more people are abandoning / refusing to participate in hypocrisy, which is modern day “religion”.
Thank you for this Heather... 'tis sad it even needs to be a topic of discussion. It should be patent to any rational soul that this is an ego-driven warped theocratic abomination. This must be overturned and called out for the idiocy that it is.
Edwin Hurwitz, my red flag is the justice's quote, "...... without incurring the wrath of God." They always mean their wrath. A loving God has no wrath, just understanding and dignity for you.
When Chief Justice of the Alabama Supreme Court states, "“human life cannot be wrongfully destroyed without incurring the wrath of a holy God,” I can't help but wonder if he has decided that the lives of the citizens of Gaza are not human and that Bibi Netanyahu has not transgressed and will not bring down the "wrath of a holy God" by allowing (encouraging) the IDF to destroy almost 30,000 of them.
Jesus: "The Parable of The Good Samaritan" - When you find someone who needs a hand, lend a helping hand. And love your neighbor. And love your enemy.
Ayn Rand: "The Parables of 'The Fountainhead" and "Atlas Shrugged" - When you find someone who needs a helping hand, mind your own business, to help is to hurt, personal responsibility, put your own interests above all others and all will be well.
I think it is essential for people to be able to learn and grow, and to abandon their cherished opinions and precepts. I would certainly not wish to be stuck with some of the things I found in my mind as I worked into my own way of thinking. Still, I think Ayn Rand influenced many people who bought into the neoliberal mindset: shrink the government as much as possible; allow the business sector to manage poverty to suit their needs for labor; allow capitalist enterprises to rule the roost.
I've been reading science fiction and speculative fiction for about 65 years, since I was ten. I carefully avoided reading Ayn Rand, long before I knew much about the subjects she wrote about. It was sheer instinct, or sheer luck, that I have never read her work. I only know bits and pieces, such as the alleged requirement that my Representative in Congress years ago, who became Speaker of the House, Mr Paul Ryan, required his staff to read Ayn Rand's work, thereby to align themselves more perfectly with the boss's thinking. Could be true.
Thank you, I read it. It's interesting her early education was principled in social pedagogy. She moved away from that. PBS News had a great article by Economics, Denise Cummins, in February 2016. I was trying to post the thread. I live in a internet desert.
She missed the point that our basic human need is to belong to our communities and one another. We need one another for our own survival. As she did in her last years on this planet. She also was an amphetamine addict for decades. Alan Greenspan didn't do this country any favors. Just another whore, hoarding wealth. The man loved a caste system.
Doesn't the timing of the Alabama ruling seem peculiar? As if to draw attention away from tfg court defeats and right after we learned about Smirnoff being a cutout for Russian Intelligence officers, that has been feeding senior R's disinformation that could affect this coming election? Its just weird timing to me. Something is always afoot with R's.
Perhaps. Sure seems like R’s are doing everything they can to turn off Women voters. Women who want control over their family planning, which has to be a majority in this country, ( I presume). If R’s judges keep this up, we win by an even bigger margin. Plus J6, Dobbs, TFG’s kissing Putin’s boots, lawsuits, rapist, fraudster. How has Donnie not just stroked out yet? How does he keep it up? It’s so dang crazy.
James, just so long as he goes away one way or the other….hope he is not deified any more than he already is. I’d kinda like to see him in prison orange without access to bronzer, a hair dryer or hair spray…..he can hold rallies in the prison yard.
How astounding that we're on the brink of sliding so far back after such progress has been made. As always, thank you for the cogent and thoughtful analysis and historical context.
They're inside our republic, trotting out Putin's active disinformation, serving the Kremlin's lies, working right here among us for their murderous oligarchs abroad, refusing to allow a vote in the House for weapons for Ukrainians dying for their homes, their democracy, ours.
Jim Jordan. James Comer. Lauren Boebert. Majorie Taylor Gazpacho. Tommy Tuberville. Nancy Mace. Elise Stefanik. Steve Scalise. Paul Gosar. Matt Gaetz. Tim Scott. Lindsey Graham. J. D. Vance. Ted Cruz. All educated in U.S. schools. All serving Putin and his campaigns to kill democracy.
But see, Scott, we are not faltering. The unfortunate thing is that there are people who have always believed in the lies. Take for instance, missionaries going to African nations to help “educate” the country’s people. The only reason is to encourage them to see “their” way of thinking. Relying on God or Jesus to help them find their pathway. And they do it in the most cunning of ways by being nice and kind, building their churches and schools, all on the premise that their religion is fully adopted. I am not saying there are some good intentions but like here in the US, it is the private schools that flourish while the public ones have to fight for every spent on each child attending. Religion is a barrier.
Indeed, indoctrinating ignorance of humanism and the human condition in favor of yet another modernized form of Puritanism. A fine example of "The road to Hell is paved with good intentions".
Wow an early night and a loaded letter. This push for religious authority in our country is truly astounding to me. We must not let the lines between church and state be torn down.
“White evangelical Protestants have experienced the steepest decline. As recently as 2006, white evangelical Protestants comprised nearly one-quarter of Americans (23%). By the time of Trump’s rise to power, their numbers had dipped to 16.8%,” Jones explains. “Today, white evangelical Protestants comprise only 13.6% of Americans.”
Source (gift link):
https://wapo.st/3wvKq8s
These Gilead Grovelers and To-Hell-in-a-Handmaid's-Basket zealots are a small and shrinking minority. Of course they will be all the more extreme and do all the more harm because their power is dwindling. Yes, let's GOTV and help them hasten their demographic demise!
I have to admit, i am sick and tired of these religious fanatics in their attempt to shove their crap down our throats. I will gladly look forward to their demographic demise.
'The Deification of Donald Trump Poses Some Interesting Questions' (NYTimes)
'On Oct. 15, 2020, in a rare display of humility, Donald Trump told a campaign rally in Greenville, N.C., that he was not as famous as Jesus Christ.'
“Somebody said to me the other day, ‘You’re the most famous person in the world, by far.’ ' I said,' ‘No, I’m not.’ 'They said,' ‘Yes, you are.’ I said, ‘No.’ 'They said,' ‘Who’s more famous?’ I said, ‘Jesus Christ.’”
'This exhibition of modesty was out of character.'
'Trump, his family and his supporters have been more than willing to claim that Trump is ordained by God for a special mission, to restore America as a Christian nation.'
'In recent weeks, for example, the former president posted a video called' “God Made Trump” 'on Truth Social that was produced by a conservative media group technically independent of the Trump campaign. He has also screened it at campaign rallies.'
'The video begins as a narrator with a voice reminiscent of Paul Harvey’s declares:' “On June 14, 1946, God looked down on his planned paradise and said: ‘I need a caretaker.’ 'So God gave us Trump.”
'Why was Trump chosen? The video continues:'
'God had to have someone willing to go into the den of vipers. Call out the fake news for their tongues as sharp as a serpent’s. The poison of vipers is on their lips. So God made Trump.'
'The video claims to quote God directly:'
'God said,' “I will need someone who will be strong and courageous. Who will not be afraid or terrified of wolves when they attack. A man who cares for the flock. A shepherd to mankind who won’t ever leave or forsake them. I need the most diligent worker to follow the path and remain strong in faith. And know the belief in God and country.”
'The' “God Made Trump” 'video was created by the Dilley Meme Team, described by Ken Bensinger of The Times as an organized collective of video producers who call themselves “Trump’s Online War Machine.” The group’s leader, Brenden Dilley, characterizes himself as Christian and a man of faith but says he has never read the Bible and does not attend church. He says that Mr. Trump has “God-tier genetics” and, in response to the outcry over the' “God Made Trump” 'video, Dilley posted a meme depicting Mr. Trump as Moses parting the Red Sea.'
'The video, along with Eric Trump’s claim that his father' “literally saved Christianity” 'and the image Donald Trump reposted on Truth Social of Jesus sitting next to him in court, raises a question: Does Trump believe that he is God’s messenger, or are his direct and indirect claims to have a special relationship with God a cynical ploy to win evangelical votes?'
'I posed this and other questions to Barry Hankins, a professor of history at Baylor and the editor of The Journal of Church and State. Hankins replied by email:' “Over the years since, there has been a growing chorus of voices saying Trump is the defender of Christians and Christianity. Trump says this himself all the time,' ‘When they come after me, they’re really coming after you.’”
'There are photos, Hankins continued', “of evangelicals laying hands on him in the Oval Office, which is something that Christians do when they ordain pastors or commission missionaries, or Jan. 6 insurrectionists carrying large crosses and praying as they attack the Capitol. People at his rallies carrying signs that say,' ‘Thank you, Lord Jesus, for President Trump.’ And on and on.”
'I asked Hankins whether Trump’s evangelical supporters' “see him as a Jesus-like figure.”
'Hankins replied,' “I think ‘Jesus-like’ is well put. When the indictments came down during Lent last spring, there were references to the powers of government going after Trump like the Roman Empire went after Jesus.”
'Trump’s evolution into a Jesus-like figure for some but not all white evangelicals began soon after he began his first presidential campaign. As David P. Gushee, a professor of Christian ethics at Mercer University, explained by email:'
'Some of Trump’s Christian followers do appear to have grown to see him as a kind of religious figure. He is a savior. I think it began with the sense that he was uniquely committed to saving them from their foes (liberals, Democrats, elites, seculars, illegal immigrants, etc.) and saving America from all that threatens it.'
'In this sense, Gushee continued', “a savior does not have to be a good person but just needs to fulfill his divinely appointed role. Trump is seen by many as actually having done so while president.”
'This view of Trump is especially strong' “in the Pentecostal wing of the conservative Christian world,” 'Gushee wrote, where he is sometimes also viewed as an anointed leader sent by God. '“Anointed” 'here means set apart and especially equipped by God for a holy task. Sometimes the most unlikely people got anointed by God in the Bible. So Trump’s unlikeliness for this role is actually evidence in favor.'
'The multiple criminal charges against Trump serve to strengthen the belief of many evangelicals about his ties to God, according to Gushee:'
'The prosecutions underway against Trump have been easily interpretable as signs of persecution, which can then connect to the suffering Jesus theme in Christianity. Trump has been able to leverage that with lines like,' “They’re not persecuting me. They’re persecuting you.” 'The idea that he is unjustly suffering and, in so doing, vicariously absorbing the suffering that his followers would be enduring is a powerful way for Trump to be identified with Jesus.' (NYTimes BY Thomas B. Edsall) See like below, sorry that it could not be gifted.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/01/17/opinion/trump-god-evangelicals-anointed.html?searchResultPosition=1
WOW Fern!!!! These people are so incredibly warped! Even if their numbers are shrinking, they are still a very scary bunch!
Colette, I think we don't have the whole story. Much of the press has been centered on Trump, MAGA, and White Christian Nationalism with reference to evangelicals. I think readers would find the following of interest.
'It’s been called an “imposter Christianity,” a heretical faith that “sanctifies lies,” and “the most serious threat” to democracy in America.' (CNN)
'That’s how critics have described White Christian nationalism, a deviant strain of religion that has infected the political mainstream. White Christian nationalists believe the US was founded as a Christian nation, although the Constitution never mentions God and enshrines the separation of church and state. Its adherents twist biblical language to justify violence, sexism and hostility toward people of color.'
'But there is another cost to the spread of White Christian nationalism that no one mentions.'
'The relentless coverage of White Christian nationalism is spreading a racist myth: that Whiteness is the default setting for evangelical Christianity.'
'This is one of the unintended consequences of the media and public’s fascination with the subject. Feeding this perception is an avalanche of books, articles and now a Hollywood film on the beliefs of White evangelical Christians — the biggest followers of Christian nationalism. In a February 2023 survey, nearly two-thirds of White evangelical Protestants qualified as sympathizers or adherents to Christian nationalism.'
'The constant linking of Whiteness with evangelical Christianity, though, obscures another major story. There are millions of Black, Latino, African and Asian evangelical Christians who are already profoundly changing America. They represent what one scholar calls the '“de-Europeanization of American Christianity.”
'And these non-White evangelicals will likely not only save the American church but transform the nation’s politics.'
'This future will belong to people like Pastor Peter Lim, founder of a growing congregation of Asian-Americans called “4Pointes Church of Atlanta.” Lim, a Korean American evangelical, says the media’s hyperfocus on White Christian nationalism often renders communities like his invisible.'
'He says he’s attended evangelical conferences where the only people who are featured onstage are White pastors or leaders. He wrote in an essay that Asian-American evangelicals often experience' “perpetual invisibility” — 'akin to what Asian Americans encounter more broadly in this country.'
“You just feel overlooked — your story or your experience is minimized,” 'he says'. “It’s not done intentionally. But you don’t feel like you belong. It tells you that your stories don’t belong. It does hurt.”
'Lim’s experience is the result of a passive form of racism. It’s not deliberate or malign; it’s a sin of omission rather than commission by many journalists, church leaders and commentators who rightly warn about the dangers posed by White Christian nationalism.'
'I’ve done it myself: In the past, when I thought about evangelicals, I only saw White Christians.'
'Why evangelical Christianity may become less conservative.'
'The true definition of “evangelical” has nothing to do with a color or a political party. Evangelicals are loosely defined as Christians who share a “born-again” dramatic personal conversion, who take the Bible seriously or literally and believe they’re supposed to spread their faith to others.'
'Today, however, the definition of an evangelical Christian has been reduced to one category: a White conservative Republican.'
'Click on any story about evangelicals and you’re liable to see a White person, usually a man, clutching a Bible.'
'But it may surprise some people to learn that in 2024, the face of evangelical Christianity in the US is more likely to be brown than White'.
'The numbers tell the story:'
'—According to a 2017 survey, one in three American evangelicals is a person of color.'
'—A higher number of Black Christians — 41% — identify as evangelicals than their White Christian counterparts.'
'—The fastest-growing segment of evangelicals in the US are Latino Americans.'
'—And at least 80% of the members of evangelical student groups at competitive universities like Princeton, Harvard and Stanford are Asian-American, according to one estimate.'
'As Carolyn Chen, a professor at UC Berkeley who is an authority on Asian American religion, said during a 2022 speech:' “Today’s evangelical leaders are not just White men with degrees from Oral Roberts University.”
'Two Asian Americans, for example, hold leadership positions at major evangelical organizations. Walter Kim, a Korean American, is the president of the National Association of Evangelicals (NAE). And Tom Lin, a Taiwanese American, is the president of InterVarsity Christian Fellowship/USA, a nationwide campus Christian ministry.'
'The Rev. William Barber II, a Black pastor and activist who has been called the “closest person we have to MLK in contemporary America,” also identifies as an an evangelical Christian.' (CNN BY John Blake,) See link below.
https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/03/us/white-christian-nationalism-racist-myth-cec/index.html
Thank you Fern. Very informative.
If Barber feels that he belongs with these “imposter Christians” he will be surprised. That dark skin will get him kicked to the curb every time. I’m constantly amazed at how good people can be hoodwinked by the same methods they have used to hoodwink others, often with good intent, or not.
Fascinating. Last night, I watched an interview with the writer Dani Shapiro, who discovered through genetic testing that her biological father was not an Orthodox Jew but a Christian medical student. Unlike some other nations, the United States has done nothing to document such arrangements, and most sperm donors were guaranteed lifetime anonymity before genetic testing made that impossible. Now, the Christian white right is claiming all those zygotes, I suppose, from the consenting adults who created them. The medical community bears some responsibiity, it would seem to me.
I agree with the others that your post is extremely informative, Fern.
However I also believe that no religion, no matter how demographically composed, has any place in government in the U.S. I think the term 'Evangelicals,' as used by pollsters and the media is a shorthand for White Christian Nationalists. I doubt that the designation is meant to elevate or supress any ethnicity, but to describe a significant MAGA voting bloc. Our rights to freedom of speech, thought, religion, and the vote are what's on the line. We can't lose sight of that. It would be equally odious to live under Sharia or Judaic law.
Thanks, Fern. Having been raised in a Protestant faith (left at 13) I always thought the picture on the wall of the fair-haired, white Jesus was a fantasy, since he was a Jew, and no doubt swarthy with dark hair and eyes. Assuming he lived at all.
Fern, how do find the time to see all of these articles? LFAA has its very own Syllabus Curator
Fern, your research has revealed a side of this thorny issue that I've never encountered before. Thank you.
Yes, Imposter Christianity
Thank you for this, Fern. It makes the point well that white "Christian" nationalism is not Christianity at all, but an alibi using cherry picked prooftexts to justify the kind of hatred and prejudice Jesus Himself unmasked in parables like the Good Samaritan. How they turn "Love your neighbor as yourself" into "America first", I'll never know- except that it's nothing to do with belief in Jesus.
So if these evangelicals take the Bible so literally then what about in 5:11-31 where it says if a woman is guilty of being unfaithful to her husband he brings her before a priest. He makes her drink some concoction and if she’s guilty then she miscarries. I mean if that isn’t an abortion I don’t know what is.
So, the takeaway: while white evangelical Christians are currently the major threat to American democracy, evangelicals who are Latino, Black or Asian also present a threat, though not immediate (apparently.)
another great post fern. keep it up.
If you haven't seen, and if you can bear it...
https://www.google.com/search?q=praying+on+Trump&rlz=1C1CHBF_en-GBAU890AU890&oq=praying+on+Trump&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOdIBCTcxNTBqMGoxNagCALACAA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:4eb3e99b,vid:HrBvMFJ_drs,st:0
About four seconds, was all I could muster.
The technical term for this is "Blasphemy."
I got to about 4 minutes before nausea overtook me and I had to stop.
Donald Trump has not ever crossed the threshold of a church unless there was a political prayer meeting going on. I know “political prayer meeting is an oxymoron but those people aren’t acting. They somehow believe what they are saying and cherry picking from the Old Testament while we are drily discussing our point of view on HCR, Hubbell, Reich, and Dan Rather. While we were looking elsewhere the chief justice of the Alabama Supreme Court rises up to declare embryos “children” and the Supreme Court of the USA discards Roe v Wade like yesterday’s newspapers. I pray, yes, pray that we prevail in November and send Trump off to deal with his judgements, fines, lawyers for the foreseeable future but the people in that video will still be with us and they do have a program. Read “crusade”
Anne-Louise. Nope couldn’t click the start arrow
My only comment is🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮
Literally made me sick to my stomach.
Couldn't watch more than a few seconds, as soon as I heard "So God gave us Trump" I turned it off. Yuck!
It's nothing but self-righteous crap. They can 'pray on' whomever they want. A lame excuse to prey on the gullible and disenfranchised.
Yes, we see these people as wrong-headed and delusional, but if we can also see them as good people, real people, just like us, maybe we could think more imaginatively than just heading for civil war.
plus the MAGA wing dominates the GOP and with it their electorate, which i suspect is bigger than just the evangelical crowd. https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2021/08/30/most-white-americans-who-regularly-attend-worship-services-voted-for-trump-in-2020/
Oh Gawd! They're completely delusional. Really sickening because Trump is more of an antiChrist than anything closely resembling a Jewish carpenter from Nazareth.
So are the prosperity preachers, none believe their bull Schitt or they would be in fear of their meeting with St. PETER
They're waiting for the Rapture, and drumpf and Bigio slaver to give to them.
The thing is they will all be left behind when the rapture comes because they have nothing in common with the teachings of Christ as found in their own Bibles.
Hello Fern,
So let's take this comparison to Jesus to its ultimate end. This coming Good Friday do you think we can see trump hanging on a cross or will his bone spurs get in the way? I may be an atheist but I can still be outraged by his co-opting the 'Savior' title!
Of all the people in the world, chump is the person I’d most like to see get nailed.
🤣😂. Maybe instead of prison time he should be hung. Upside down of course.
The horrifying thing is that he'll use his bankruptcy as another badge of martyrdom, just as he's characterized his legal jeopardy as election interference and equated it with Navalny's actual martyrdom.
Didto. I think of Jesus as a story character of good trump ISNT GOOD
The anti-Christ.
Give me a break! Trump is the most evil, amoral man I have ever observed. Are evangelicals THAT stupid?
Yes, they are blinded by their belief. And God takes interest in every little thing they do as I often say God tells them when to fart. I have sat in restaurants and heard some amazing conversations on how these people decide what they should do.
I have one friend that is evangelical and she is sweet but very, very stupid. She really believes every bit of the Bible came from God. Sigh!!! These people are scary.
I'm not sure he's evil... bat shit crazy is more like. His wacko agenda has obscenely evil consequences, but at base he's just a demented loser.
Yet People of Color can be in churches that are equally evangelical. And some are rooted in some very exclusionary values that have been taking hold in foreign nations where LGBTQ people and women preachers, for instance, are prohibited, even condemned. There are these elements in ‘Christian doctrine’ everywhere. And the same threats to Democratic government present in any denomination exerting power over all.
FERN I just shouted JESUS CHRIST! In discussing Christianity, mentioning Trump as Judas I comprehend (and endorse). But mentioning Trump and Jesus Christ in the same sentence is blasphemy.
‘Forgiveness’ and ‘it is more blessed to give than receive’ are anathema to Trump. And, in the Ten Commandants, Trump clearly covets his neighbor’s ass and, for him, there is no other God before Trump.
You seem to me to be as keen and feisty as your were two of three years ago. When did we
first converse, Keith?
FERN We first conversed when most Republicans honored the 1st Amendment. Must have been a long time ago, but sooner than they trashed the 2nd Amendment.
I am just up and haven't had my coffee yet, Fern. This is nauseating. I am reminded of a meme one of husband's relatives from the Lakota branch showing death star with a halo and accompanied by angels. At that point I said something and it didn't please her, so I just blocked her so I didn't have to see anymore of that kind of nonsense. I have told this story before, but one of my ex-classmates, devout "Christian" posted a meme from one of those crazy so-called "Christian warriors" blaming the fires in CA on atheists. I started my reply with "What the hell is this." Then I proceeded to tell her that many of the people who suffered in the fires here in Oregon are rural, likely to be Rs and many of them are Christian just like her. I told her how awful it was and how people lost everything and some their lives. Lots of our friends, some Christian, some not, put up friends and helped out. We made a donation to the big fund for the people up the canyon. It still smells of wood smoke up there. She did back track and tried to say she posted it to show how bad it was which was a giant pile of BS. I don't know how she feels about death star now as she has been mostly silent on political matters....just pictures of the puppy. She did post one recently that I am sure she meant as disparagement of Biden, but I had seen the same one numerous times as disparagement of death star. She should be happy since Dodd. I hope she understand how awful the current Alabama decision is. I doubt it as I am sure she would content with a theocratic state.
Anyone who claims to know the mind of God needs medication.
This character named God is found in many works of fiction. That name really should be what we call Nature, since Nature is the most powerful of all. Humans seem to fail to listen to what Nature is telling us today: "Humans need me to survive, but I do not need humans to continue my existence. If they are to remain on this planet, they must stop destroying what I have created."
I'm getting this image of Trump on a cross.
I do believe that God gave us trump. God gave us the most the most ridiculous buffoonish human imaginable as a wake-up call, yet people are still sleeping, following this creep like sheep. His existence has spotlighted stupid Americans like nothing else. For proof look up trump sneakers on ebay to see what they're going for....
I would be surprised if tRump ever darkened the door of a church !
Fern, thanks very much for this post. The cult of Trump is growing and increasing in power. It is a belief system and as such reasoning has little effect on the adherents. They need to be "converted" to a new belief literally to end their engagement with the Trump as savior belief...... Not going to happen easily if at all.
Thank you, Grover. I always appreciate hearing from you. What convinces you that DJT's cult is
growing? His party is shrinking a bit; young voters are not enthusiastic about him and Biden; women are, generally, very negative about him, and the MAGA crowd is mostly sixty and older. I think his loses in court and the gigantic sum of money he owes may make him more Christ-like to a few, but I think overall more damaging.
I thought Christians were supposed to be good people who did not commit adultery, steal, kill, etc. They didn't welch on deals and take advantage of the poor. Didn't the Super Bowl commercial show people washing the feet ( a humble act) of all colors and religions? An ad sponsored by a church.
I think trump acknowledges God's superiority only because he thinks he is a very close second. Handmaid Tale al over.
Scary stuff. Not the first Christian cult, but the first to get to be The Speaker of the House and into The White House.
I think the "Christian" nationalist movement is political, not religious. It has infected the evangelical church, whose followers seem predisposed to strongmen figures. Religion is the horse these power hungry folks have ridden in on. They are no more followers of Christ than Adam's house cat. They are SO unlike Christ, who did not force anyone to follow him.
Power, nothing more. There is nothing Jesus like.
They are authoritarians, and ride whatever horse works best. What more suited for subjugation and enslavement than " the Almighty""?
Sad sick little people.
They are charlatans, one and all. Their cult followers are no better.
In the words of W., "that is some crazy shit', referring to HCRs comments about Alabama's far far right religious Supreme Court.
Margaret Atwood and Bruce Miller may have gotten the geography wrong for where Gilead will originate, but they are spot onseem to be right about the "seven mountains" HCR mentions. "religion, family, education, media, entertainment, business…and government. " TFFG seems to have spoken about everyone of these and how he will take control of each of them when he regains the Presidency. And Priests and Pastors gush over him for his positions.
It is such a turn-off for most of us to bring religion into politics as Eric mentions with his statistics. Drive by any church when parishioners are arriving and you will see that very few young people attend something the raw statistics don't show.
From the Houston Herald -
"About 4,500 Protestant churches closed in 2019, the last year data is available, with about 3,000 new churches opening, according to Lifeway Research. It was the first time the number of churches in the U.S. hadn’t grown since the evangelical firm started studying the topic. With the pandemic speeding up a broader trend of Americans turning away from Christianity, researchers say the closures will only have accelerated."
https://houstonherald.com/2023/01/thousands-of-churches-closing-every-year-in-u-s/
With the prevailing philosophy in the Catholic Church and the Southern Baptist church being patriarchal, the trend away from these religions and other with similar ideaology will likely continue.
Ok I finally have to ask what the second F in TFFG is
Glad you asked that! I know what I think it is, but it’s the first F in my head.
Not ‘fudging’ or ‘freaking,’ but what they sub for!
Effin' correct.
The early church fathers made sure that the church was patriarchal....lots of Greek influence where women in Athens were never considered adults. They also recognized the power of sex which is why some of them were out in the Egyptian desert sitting on pillars or in caves trying to forget about women and I would bet that is all they thought of. I once again recommend Eunuchs for the Kingdom of Heaven to understand what they thought about sex and women. I came away thinking no wonder we have so many crazy ideas.
I can't blame them for going down fighting, only for trying to take us all down with them. We can't get to the dust to dust part fast enough for me.
John & Eric, it seems that given the power of the idea that James Madison was able to enunciate so clearly in the Constitution, the prohibition of "the establishment of one religion over others attacked a fundamental human right—an unalienable right—of conscience. If lawmakers could destroy the right of freedom of conscience, they could destroy all other unalienable rights" we do a further disservice to the acts of conscience expressed by those who would impose their religions upon us. More useful than mocking and making fun of their beliefs would be to respect their religious beliefs and affiliations but make clear that many of the rest of us do not share those beliefs and therefore will not allow them to impose those beliefs upon the rest of us. The very idea of "imposing" a belief seems incompatible on the face of it. One can impose actions and force words but not beliefs. There is a long and appalling history of the efforts by governments and rulers and religions to impose their beliefs, enough history to demonstrate conclusively that it doesn't work. We owe people the right to their individual consciences and should respect that in our actions and words.
JohnM. Your suggestion to just say "thank you but no thanks" to these fanatics ignores two thousand years of human history. How many heretics have been killed over even the slightest deviation from the "true"faith ?
Right. The answer is millions.
Key: Not tolerating intolerance. See essays linked below.
John, you conclude: "We owe people the right to their individual consciences and should respect that in our actions and words." We should and some can, but I don't think that it is in the DNA of the evangelicals, the "True Believers," to do that. For them it's "all or nothing," IMO.
John M,
Key guiding principle: Not tolerating intolerance. This is in the second piece below. (I keep these sources handy!)
https://johnpavlovitz.com/2022/03/18/no-all-opinions-are-not-equally-valid/
https://qz.com/1054694/a-philosophical-principle-coined-in-1945-could-be-a-key-us-defense-against-white-supremacists/
https://lithub.com/rebecca-solnit-on-not-meeting-nazis-halfway/
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2019/7/21/1871333/-Why-you-can-t-be-nice-to-neo-Nazis-or-their-enablers-in-the-GOP
Respect but vilify, to misquote St. Reagan. All we can do is defend Madison's vision for a free and self-governing people. They can stay and believe as they wish, but get the hell out of government and my panties.
Responsibility should be thought of along with rights in many of these conversations. We have a responsibility to use our conscience.
The Republican Party has gradually become a cult of white supremacists carrying a bible and preaching heresy.
Or maybe they'll all be Raptured. It's a win-win.
Sadly, they are not a minority in our GOP, and doubting their threat is a dangerous assessment. I am in my mid sixties and as a woman, my children and grandchildren have lost liberties that were taken for granted in my youth. We are at a dangerous tipping point and I hope that, at least a majority of us, is able to control and manage the threat. Part of me fears it may already be out of control.
It is out of control. Like when I was a pup, the Bible was sacrosanct. And, like many young people I ignored it, like I did my advice-giving parents. Later, I checked it out again and was appalled by much. Like many believers, one has to pick and choose. I finally chose science and the unknown over the surety of the first believers (reinterpreted ad nauseam by the most untrustworthy sorts). There is nothing more dangerous than true believers in their righteous bull Schitt. Except when it is swaddled in money…
Nothing infuriates my evangelical sister so much as my reminder that the Bible was written by people. Folks is fallible, I tell her, including their possibly mistaken belief that they're 'inspired by god.' There's another name, scientific, you'll be glad to hear, Jeri, for those voices in they haids.
You can infuriate them further by reminding them that almost every ancient religion has a great flood story and that many other stories in the Bible are myths hading down from generation to generation.
Love Mark Twain who said “The easy confidence with which I know another man’s religion is folly teaches me to suspect that my own is also.” Says it all for me…
I’ve infuriated a few myself. The fallible ones seem to scream the loudest. Keep up the good work…
These “true” believers must be following a book I’ve never read which excludes the Bible. They must have skipped the red passages which are the things Jesus actually preached. What is a Christian besides someone who lives Jesus’ words in their daily lives? And how can they do that if they don’t know what he said?
They know, they just prefer their version. A woman I know bragged to me about how she and a couple of her church friends ran off two gays guys from our town. She was so proud, never occurred to her that I might be repulsed. I was, now she knows.
Me too 100%
🗣️ never underestimate 👏👏👏 Hear Hear!
Eric, I recall, after Romney’s presidential defeat in 2012, that Republicans had understood, were they to start winning, they would have to diversify their base. Then, after Trump’s 2016 improbable electoral win with mostly white votes, the thinking started to change and Republicans started recognizing they could hold power indefinitely despite their shrinking numbers.
Ultimately, my thinking is similar to yours. In my mind, however hard we think we can work, we’ll have to work harder and smarter.
"Republicans started recognizing they could hold power indefinitely despite their shrinking numbers."
So long as they could get away with cheating. Big time. Perhaps they overplayed their hand. And yes, we must work harder and smarter.
J L, Thank you for extending my comment. I simply would add, because the other side has shown it will do whatever is necessary to hold power, Democrats, in my view, have to be willing to engage in war, figuratively speaking.
Too bad their idea of expanding the base was to court this sector. With any luck they'll go the way of women in binders (a pretty apt description of what they'd do to us if we let them). Good thing sisterhood is powerful. We'll see how powerful when we learn how Amy Coney Barrett decides on TFG's blanket immunity. Maybe he should change his name to Linus.
It is war indeed, but many who wear the rapier fear the goosequill. They are way out on limb that needs pruning. Clever students of marshal arts can use the force of an enemy's attack to send the assailant into the dirt.
Incidentally, recall when Biden boxed Republicans into pledging not to cut Medicare. Well played.
JL Graham,
....and their inability to serve our nation as elected representatives!!!!
Oh, those cheatin' Christians.
Republicans have planned this for many many years. Please read “Dark Money” and how the Koch Brother had been planning this
take over of the country. Their motive was to be able to run their companies as they want without any interference from the government or especially the EPA. MAGA followers have no idea that Republicans have since Regan could care less about them..
Jane Mayer writes the most thorough and best explanation of where we are now in Dark Money.
Lewis Powell Memo
I've been very busy but am rereading Bill Moyers' take on the Powell Memo at https://billmoyers.com/content/the-powell-memo-a-call-to-arms-for-corporations/
The Powell Memo was commissioned on August 23, 1971 (when I believe he was still a member of the board at Philip Morris).
I'm interested in the timing, May 21, 1970 "Media Memorandum for the President" by Pat Buchanan at the Nixon Library. See https://www.nixonlibrary.gov/sites/default/files/virtuallibrary/documents/jan10/025.pdf
Back in those days, the only reason I stayed with the Republican party was my belief that they would clean their own house periodically as they did when they let Nixon know he would be impeached. I considered their forcing him to resign as a step in the right direction. That memo shows how wrong I was, the apparent reformation didn't last so much as try to present a cleaner image as they took more behind the scenes. That most obviously to me, changed when they started ramping up the application of the Newt Gingrich/Frank Luntz GoPac memo, "Language: A Key Mechanism of Control," which I can compare to the Buchanan memo going to total non-cooperation, non-compromising, extremes.
That GoPac memo, and a major fund raiser asking some of us select few to fight dirtier than Democrats was the final straw for me to leave the party (about the same time Elizabeth Warren did, though I became Independent for almost all of the last 30 years).
I think the Southern strategy put paid to any self-cleansing. The only way to manifest anyone's vision is to gain power, and your former confreres decided that no deceit was too low to halt their march to power. Gingrich and Luntz just gave them a new vocabulary. They mostly have dealt in fear - that furriners, feminazis and commies would steal all the money and jobs, not to mention pollute their suburbs with dark skin.
Joe Biden is a good President.
The country is better off.
The Democratic Party is strong and winning elections all over the country.
And they have Trump, who is more degraded and unappealing than he was in 2020. He is weak and losing ground.
...Of course I'm parroting Simon Rosenberg here. But I do so because I rely on data-driven optimism.
I remember well, they learned to cheat
Timothy Snyder's recent essay, "Beware the Weak Man" is about autocrats, but I think it applies here too. Link: https://snyder.substack.com/p/beware-the-weak-man?r=j65w9
Gilead Grovelors , and the Handmaiden’s Baskets…oh my I haven’t even gotten but what # past in commentaries and such wonderful reading….i Love This Group of witties!!!!!
The problem is they have used the strategy of the LEWIS POWELL MEMO to place the chess pieces in strategic places of power.
No one used it more than Mitch McConnell.
They aren’t going anywhere, just watch as your options for your own life (and those you love) fade away.
C'mon, Jeri! Of course they're going somewhere - back to the periphery where we'll send them come 11/5. It's up to rational humanists to relegate them to the fringe where they belong. Haven't you seen the statistics that show how huge majorities disagree with just about everything they stand for?
Do you live in a red state; as Stalin reportedly said, It’s not who gets the most votes, it’s who counts them. As the cretins enact one law after another skewing the processes, we just assume that the rules are observed and the good guys win. Work we must, but assume nothing. Otherwise, the asses = u and me.
Eric, I am sensing (and I am a Christian) that these extreme positions taken by “the fire and brimstone” crowd are raising alarm with the rest of the voting public where the issue is no longer specific to abortion, LGBTQ, or some other “sin” ( as such) but rather, it will become personal to citizens that have ignored voting altogether, pitting their very personal beliefs against those of Cotton Mather and radicals such as Speaker “God in human clothes”
When these citizens begin to feel threatened by a Government that forces its religious rules upon them, (King George) sparks will commence and fur is gonna fly. Admiral Yamamoto(?) or somebody said, “I fear we have awoken a sleeping bear”
Careful what you preach Speaker Mikey, your conviction will be your downfall
I agree with your pragmatic approach: Widespread and enduring outrage has been helping Dems win elections.
In the name of God, they will lie and cheat to achieve the rule by their minority. These people are fanatics.
Thank you Eric - the Washington Post article by Jennifer Rubin, bases on recent statistical analysis let the cat out of the bag. ..yet again. I wonder if the NYTIMES will pick it up?
Hmm, about the NYT. The WaPo piece is from 2023.
So well said! Thank you Eric and Dog bless you.
Made me laugh, Graeme!
They are expanding their facility not far from me in an area without a postoffice. It is called Glenn. They may have a Terre Haute address. A school used to sit on the site. I would imagine they purchased the land very cheap from the county. They have a daycare center and another church that is for those that speak Spanish in our area. It is called New Life! It started small. It is rather scary. This is Indiana.
Sharon,
Yes, scary. Not to minimize actual PTSD with the following improv humor, but you may be suffering from Preacher Trump Sycophant Disorder.
Bide(n) your time, and remember that there are many more of us than there are of them.
Thank you!
Oh, this is great news....lets get them out of our government.
Trouble is, they've got a Presidential candidate who has their back.
Yes, but how does the country get this "Christian" Nationalist minority under control when they dominate so many courts, state legislatures, and (Dog forbid) if Trump should be elected?
Ellen and Sabine, I would submit that a biblical take-over of the “seven mountains” of life anywhere on Earth is synonymous with Orwell’s “1984” character Syme, a writer of that totalitarian society’s dictionary who stated, “The whole climate of thought will be different. In fact, there will be no thought, as we understand it now. Orthodoxy means not thinking—not needing to think.” I would submit that kind of orthodoxy can kill a democracy—or worse.
For proof, one need look no further than the southern states where the truth about slavery, race, and segregation had been driven from the pulpits, driven from the classrooms, and driven from the newsrooms. It took a bloody Civil War to bring the truth home and then it took another hundred years for the truth to make us free.
Whether, a little over a half-century later, that “new birth of freedom” and government by popular consent “shall not perish” largely is in our hands.
The "or worse" Barbara Jo, is US!
Ransom, When I wrote “or worse,” I had in mind the emergence of a brutal violent authoritarianism wherein anything that might impede national unity would have to be violently eradicated.
I believe that includes US. WE would be the ones impeding national unity?
I'm confused. If "that kind of orthodoxy can kill a democracy---or worse."
I guess it could kill anything. We are usually on the same page, Barb.
Ransom, In my mind, killing a democracy would entail, in our case, a fatal weakening of American civic institutions and also a Presidency eager and able to consolidate power, wherein the rule of law would be subjugated to an individual. The phrase “or worse” foresaw, if not a civil war, a conceivably brutal dictatorship wherein militia squads, for example, could be unleashed on civilian populations.
Now you're describing the entire premise of 'Nineteen Eighty-Four'.
The US is a big tent, which I hate to share with some of my loved ones…
You had me at "...there will be no thought..." Yes, it's very Orwellian, perhaps more like Animal Farm than 1984. I can name one pig who thinks he's more equal, and after all we already went through 1984 with Ronnie Raygun.
All the same, I agree 100% with your reply to Ransom.
'The Alabama Chief Justice Who Invoked God in Deciding the Embryo Case'
'Chief Justice Tom Parker has long been revered by conservative groups as an architect for the overturning of Roe v. Wade.' (NYTimes)
'In an Alabama Supreme Court decision that has rattled reproductive medicine across the country, a majority of the justices said the law was clear that frozen embryos should be considered children:' “Unborn children are ‘children.’”
'But the court’s chief justice, Tom Parker, drew on more than the Constitution and legal precedent to explain his determination.'
“Human life cannot be wrongfully destroyed without incurring the wrath of a holy God,” 'he wrote in a concurring opinion that invoked the Book of Genesis and the prophet Jeremiah and quoted at length from the writings of 16th- and 17th-century theologians.'
“Even before birth,” 'he added,' “all human beings have the image of God, and their lives cannot be destroyed without effacing his glory.”
'Just as the case, which centers on wrongful-death claims for frozen embryos that were destroyed in a mishap at a fertility clinic, has reverberated beyond Alabama, so has Justice Parker’s opinion.'
'His theological digressions showed why he has long been revered by conservative legal groups and anti-abortion activists, and also why he has inspired apprehension among critics who regard him as guided more by religious doctrine than the law.'
'In a post on social media, Tony Perkins, the president of the conservative Family Research Council, described the opinion as a “beautiful defense of life and the Alabama Constitution.” But critics viewed it as dangerous and deviating from the U.S. Constitution.' “Welcome to the theocracy,” 'wrote a columnist for The Washington Post.'
'Since he was first elected to the nine-member court in 2004, and in his legal career before it, he has shown no reticence about expressing how his Christian beliefs have profoundly shaped his understanding of the law and his approach to it as a lawyer and judge.'
'Those beliefs also informed a vision that, his supporters say, made him a dogged and brilliant architect for laying the groundwork that contributed to the U.S. Supreme Court’s decision in 2022 to overturn a federal right to abortion with Dobbs v. Jackson.'
'In 2022, Matt Clark, the president of the Alabama Center for Law and Liberty, a conservative legal advocacy group, praised Justice Parker for his “courage and relentlessness.” He cited Justice Parker’s writing in past cases as scaffolding for the arguments that successfully challenged Roe v. Wade, which established a constitutional right to abortion and blocks states from banning the procedure before fetal viability, which most experts estimate at about 23 or 24 weeks.'
”He picked apart Roe’s logic when it came to viability,” Mr. Clark wrote in an essay published by 1819 News, a conservative digital outlet in Alabama, referring to a concurring opinion in a case related to a wrongful-death lawsuit involving a fetus that was lost before it had reached the point of viability outside the womb.'
“Fast-forward nine years later,” Mr. Clark, who later joined Justice Parker’s staff, wrote. “When Mississippi asked the Supreme Court to take Dobbs, one of its major points was how Roe’s viability standard didn’t make any sense. And whose writing did Mississippi draw on multiple times to make that point?”
'His sharpest critics have not denied his influence. “What Justice Parker has done is explicitly lay out the road map for overturning Roe v. Wade,” said Lynn Paltrow, the founder and former executive director of the nonprofit Pregnancy Justice, according to an extensive investigation of Justice Parker’s role in the so-called personhood movement that was published by ProPublica and The New Republic in 2014.'(NYTimes By Rick Rojas) See gifted link below.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/22/us/alabama-ivf-tom-parker.html?unlocked_article_code=1.Xk0.826x._WAOkcq2lLHV&smid=url-share
Will someone please ask, if all fetus are precious and equated to children, then why do we show so little regard for children? Why do we allow them to be neglected, abused, without medical care, and suffer from food scarcity? Why is it that the states that are so fervent in protection a fetus have the worst record for protecting children?
In Texas, where the state will allow a woman to die rather than have an abortion, they've refused federal funding for summer lunch programs, refuse to expand Medicaid, have cut back access to health care for children, have a failed Child Protective System and a failed child foster care system,a failed juvenile justice system, are trying to destroy the public education system, and believe parents should have a right to choose whether or not to vaccinate their children.
It's not about the children. It's all about control. It's about creating a theocracy.
Susan, this is exactly what I have been thinking for quite some time. The abject lack of pre and post natal care, the lack of support for children in poverty, the woeful failures of so called child "protective" services is a disgrace.
It is NOT about children, it is about control of women.
"It is about control of women." TOTALLY.
Another consequence of these arcane abortion laws is the lack of prosecution of the 26,000 men that impregnated women by rape and/or incest in the states that have banned abortions. Thousands of these rapists will never be prosecuted even though there is clear DNA evidence. But, hey women lie about being raped is their BS response.
If you haven't read "Freakonomics" there is a case study they did comparing the crime rates before and after when the legalization of abortion in 1973. Their conclusion is that starting in the early 1990's, the violent crime rate in the US dropped significantly. They determined that unwanted babies grow up to be criminals at rates that are much higher than children that are wanted.
Unwanted babies are more like unresourced babies. There mamas simply do not have the resources or even access to resources they need to raise the babies. The help they get in Texas is some diapers and parenting classes. That says a lot about how people understand the problems inherent in having a baby that you cannot afford...because your minimum wage job does not cover the cost of childcare, food, housing, utilities, transportation, clothing...on and on and on. And...if you get support for childcare....typically you have to be working for 60 days until you can access it...if there is space for your child. What do you do with your child for 60 days? Leave it at home (neglect). Find a stranger to watch your child for free...not happening. And then people wonder why the crime rate goes up.
I can think of nothing sadder than an unwanted child, no matter the economic conditions of the family. Fortunately, thanks to abortion laws, birth control and pregnancy termination drugs millions of Americans have been able to live without being forced to care for a child.
My sister's both had "oops" babies when they thought their families were complete. But those kids were loved and nurtured as well as any child. And they grew up to be wonderful parents to their children.
But this isn't always the case of course. And when neither parent wants the child and neither do any other family members, more often than not, very bad things happen.
the Bible says one thing about abortion and that is that it is allowed if a man's wife gets pregnant cheating with another man. And yet, the patriarchal "Christian" religions say that it is wrong.
Agreed. Whether unwanted (I saw a lot of those) or unresourced (many of these), those kids have far fewer options or opportunities. Factor in housing/food insecurity and it’s almost a guaranteed outcome.
“Human life cannot be wrongfully destroyed without incurring the wrath of a holy God,”
IF they truly believe this, why then do they not become outraged at school (and other) mass shootings? Human life is wrongfully destroyed in these events. God must be angry at their lack of action.
Good point!
Excellent point!
Apparently God condones the use of slingshots and rocks otherwise what is the point of the David and Goliath story? /S
The fetus’s are children is a scam. These zealots value children only as little slaves and disciples
Although you didn't ask, I would like to take a stab at an answer, Susan. Part of the mythology of a Christian nation is that God bestows gifts on his chosen. Wealth and health (strength and masculinity) are signs of God's approval of men, and fecundity indicates God's approval of a woman. If a woman, for example, is a single impoverished mother, well, poverty is the wages of sin.
It amazes me how these guys make up conditions and circumstances that favor themselves. Not a humble man among them.
I have also heard that sentiment from deeply religious...that their wealth and success is a reward from God. It left me speechless.
Their theocracy is very much about keeping women in "our place." I think that beyond federal bans on abortion, IVF, and birth control, they would also like to prevent women from inheriting, owning property, or earning our own money.
That's all on top of halting immigration completely, exporting and/or dumping brown people in internment camps, establishing a state media, loosing some kind of military (probably Oath Keepers and their brethren in newly made uniforms - I'm betting the shirts will be brown.) on civilians, dumping out of NATO, and jailing or assassinating political rivals. What could go wrong?
We are truly hearing looney tunes out of tune. My god, cover our ears…. but do not close your intellect. These nut cases are not one tiny bit religious. They are out of control. Say no!
And Susan is totally on point. These power mongers do not care about children. Oh, I know…. Let’s have those “men” who are so anxious to get into your “private parts” have their DNA tested so we can line them up for parenting classes. Also, help them set up their bank accounts so they can pay to raise their children. You know, like God told them!
Yes yes yes!! ASK THIS QUESTION!!
Then do those embryos have a right to be implanted in a uterus or do they continue their little lives in a freezer until an act of God results in a power failure?
I wonder how far "personhood" could be taken? After all, an embryo is only a few seconds and one step away from being eggs and sperm.
I can see the signs: "Secure the Sperm" and "Eggs are People, too!".
Sorry, this whole concept of embryo rights is pushing my sanity/rage buttons. Is it really 2023 in America?
Or Monty Python's Every Sperm is Sacred...
I can see it now...Embryo Lives Matter
Do you think women will eventually be jailed for menstruating? Oops, I meant for willfully letting an egg person go unfertilized.
I wouldn't be shocked by anything the Christian Nationalist Nazis would do.
Very amusing, cameron, thank you.
So many questions, so few answers! How about the right to vote?
Oh that’s right, they will never be of voting age, poor children
No need, there won't be any more elections.
Oh yeah, how could I forget that part😡
Wow, that really is the next terrifying logical step, isn’t it?
They’ll be put into perpetual day care at a center owned by a PE group.
Today's anti-hero is Parker, but Leonard Leo is far more dangerous as he is responsible for every Federal court nomination under Trump. There is absolutely no reason to assume that he won't assume the same role if Trump is reelected.
Crazy far right judges in red states are one thing, Federal judges and Supreme Court justices are quite another.
Think Trump will replace Roberts with Leo? At least they both have first names as surnames.
“Even before birth,” 'he added,' “all human beings have the image of God, and their lives cannot be destroyed without effacing his glory.”
Why would an unimaginably wise and powerful God be bothered if a few puny humans "effaced his glory"? How would that even possible?
If Speaker Mike were so concerned about The Sanctity of Life, why would he tank an aid bill to help the children of Gaza and Ukraine? Mike reveals it’s not at all about moral glory, it’s always and forever about more greed/power concentrated in a few male hands.
Hypocrites not at all concerned about the lives they sacrifice. God is just them sitting on high.
Exactly. 'God' is just too damn busy to worry about a relatively small number of organisms floating around the universe on an unbelievably tiny speck of dust. I rather doubt he gives a damn, protestations by religious fanatics notwithstanding. One more day on which my decision to treat all organized religion with disdain is proven to be correct.
Me too
Hallelujah brother.
I've thought for a long time that it's highly unlikely god gives a shit about whether we glorify him/her/it or not. Why would an omnipotent, omniscient, eternal need the support or adoration of puny humans? Even if we're not its creation? We don't care what ants think about us, if they give us a thought at all.
You're just not a believer, J L. Have you even tried to get with The Spirit of the Lord?
Actually yes, but never saw the Spirit of the Lord as a petty tyrant. At this point I am not religious in any conventional sense of the word, but I admire many people who are. I am troubled by those who claim superiority because God is supposedly on their side. That just seems like aggressive narcissism to me, while Jesus preached humility, conscience and compassion.
I'm with ya, JL, about the image of God as a "petty tyrant" not being appropriate to the image that comes through about God if you look at the totality of God's actions in scripture. There, you find a God of enormous forgiveness, patience, and compassion––bringing people together, commanding that we care for "the widow and orphan," and denouncing the powerful who tread on the poor. Over and over again, God as love is not an angry white guy up in the sky. Notice the language the White Christian Nationalists use for God. Tom Parker speaks of God's "wrath." We are watching the White Christian Nationalists appeal to the God they imagine is the one who will uphold their prejudices. Their version has no open arms and welcome to the stranger. It's all about power-over while the God who Jesus knew emphasized sacrifice. Of the self. Not embryos.
There is a streetcorner in front of a very large church that for a while had people with large signboard attached to them in front of it. One day I passed a man supporting a large sign that read "FEAR GOD". OK, there is Biblical support for that sentiment I suppose, but the Christian "Great Commandment" is to love God and thy neighbor as thyself. To me love involves trust and compassion. And courage. Jesus illustrated the concept of neighbor with a Samaritan, a pariah to his audience. Jesus advised loving one's enemy. Several Bible literalists have stated that is the one part of the Bible that does not say what it seems like. The letter of resignation of diplomat John Brady Kiesling to Colin Powell over Bush II's intent to invade Iraq protesting what he characterized with a Latin phrase attributed to Caligula, meaning "Let them hate us, so long as they fear us,". That callousness would not seem to be what Jesus advised.
There are two fundamental ways to to influence other's behavior, one of which is with threats of violence or actual violence, as we see playing out in Ukraine and in countries where dissidents meet with sudden ends or torture. The other is some element of love, be it a bottom line acceptance of of every being's humanity, or at least a love of the principle of liberty and justice for all. Humanity appears to have been long divided over these two approaches. It is a battle that could potentially bring an end to our own species.
Well expressed, J L, in terms of having respect for others.
This reminds me of Lincoln’s response when someone asked him “Is God on our side?”
He replied, “My concern is more with whether or not we are on God’s side.”
I'm with you, too, JL. Since I was a kid I've believed it is my obligation to live ethically. That's different from mindlessly following the strictures of this religion or that. Religion per se strikes me as another authoritarian that imposes its dos and don'ts on the congregation. I'd rather live without shame.
I generally use the word "shame" conventionally, but I have read that it is useful to distinguish shame from guilt. Guilt is recognition of some measure of unacceptable behavior on one's part, whereas shame indicates the unacceptability of the person. Whatever words are used, some research indicates framing "bad" behavior as worthy of guilt leads to better outcomes than shaming of the person, which can sometimes trigger self-harmful or aggressive behavior.
That said, I frequently brand modern Republicans as "shameless".
Everyone in America has the right to choose the church of their choice just as women should have the choice to medical care including abortion.
We all have or reasons for believing as we do and when I attended church it was because the pastor and most of the parishioners were there for similar reasons and for the most part believed the same thing and chose to praise God and try to be and do what Jesus would.
In 2022, our local food bank had the opportunity to purchase a larger property to better serve the food insecure in our county. They were able to secure a 5 year loan for close to a million dollars. The expansion committee calculated from previous donations that they could probably pay off the loan in 5 years.
One of the ladies on the committee became the chief fundraiser. She attended a church service at every church in our county. She lobbied the state and local governments and met with several philanthropists. In 9 months she raised enough to pay off the loan. But as projects go, there were some glitches which added around $100,000 to the project.
To celebrate this amazing achievement, they held a pot-luck dinner in the new facility and conducted tours. The amazing lady that had worked so hard for over a year to raise the funds sat across from me at the dinner. She is a lifelong Catholic and had invited her priest to give the blessing before the meal.
During dinner I was complimenting her on her efforts and she replied that she felt "the Spirit of the Lord" guiding her efforts and that she felt that it was a miracle they raised the money so quickly. I nodded in agreement which I admit was hypocritical.
First of all, if her religion is her inspiration to help others, great. And I admire her for her humility and the fact that she thanked the donors for their generosity before she praised God. The food bank was founded by three churches years ago, a Unitarian-Universalist church, a Catholic church and a Lutheran church.
Personally, I have never gotten with The Spirit of the Lord even when I attended church. I don't doubt that millions of people feel they have.
As a non-theist, I don't care what anyone else believes. But I do care about the faux-Christians trying to force us to worship at one of their houses of worship when they don't even attempt to understand or follow the lessons Jesus teaches in the Bible. Furthermore, they make up laws that are just the opposite of what Jesus and Jewish law taught like forced birther laws and that rape and incest are just fine.
Sorry for butting in on your question to J.L. Fern, just wanted to weigh in.
You are very thoughtful in every sense of the word, Gary. Lovely anecdote.
Do we think that the insanity, the outright weirdness of this Alabama bad movie nightmare ruling by a Q Anon judge will boost the already powerful forces unleashed by the Dobbs decision? Is this more ammunition for Democratic strategists?
I see two tracks of outrage to "Justice" Parker's statements. The obvious one is the blatant attack on women's rights to reproduce in the manner and time they wish. But the other outrage of this one man tying HIS religion to a court ruling - that is bound to rattle ANYONE who believes in the right to believe independently...to have the faith or no faith of their choice. It flies in the face of all things American.
Maybe this situation is SO outrageous and primitive and downright dictatorial it will fire up some who have stayed on the sidelines in this battle for democracy. One can hope.
These ‘reformers’ wish to create a government which is the source of moral authority to decide all “moral” issues..code for oppression of minorities and women… because they don’t trust the Voting Majority. This was the same thinking the Framers had for constructing the Electoral College. We all know how well that worked out.
Agreed, Bill. "...incurring the wrath of a holy God" is a thought that absolutely stuns me.
You bet Dems will make hay of this ridiculous ruling. Of course whoever dropped the ovatorium or whatever it's called should be docked or something, but for doing his job carelessly, not because the contents were god's creatures. They're not even alive until fertilized, fer Chrissake!
Predestination. In other words, we have no control over what happens. I am sorry, but predestination is just another way of humans saying that humans have no choice. If that was the case, then the all mighty and all powerful God would force humans to follow his/her teachings.
And would not have given humans any more brain than we need to say “yes, sir”
"Wrath of God" bet he is fine with the death penalty.
Oh, I'm sure he is. Most of these hypocrites are just fine with killin' "criminals".
Correct. In this case, they like the Old Testament...
A pox on the Colonel (shares his name with Elvis' manager.)
... she says while her country assists in the genocide committed by another country as it's "God given" right. Really couldn't make this shit up.
Don't hafta, Sabine. They do it for us. What a load of latter day bullshit.
The wall has clearly already been breached. Now it needs to be fixed.
Heather, WOW was my thought too and first word read in the commenting , thank you Ellen.
Humble is not a frequent character trait nowadays. But it is the first I look for , a standout quality of royal leadership . We rub shoulders ,so it’s coined , with leaders every day, they might not know it, but given the chance …they could become great leaders , HUMBLY setting example by their walk and none of it is stuffed down anyone’s throat as the ‘right way’ to be done.
It so ironic ‘the right’ eludes to a political stance -so that now I avoid using. I don’t want to speak it, write it, think it accepting this currency premise . The White Right..my cynic then pops out and ‘tighty whities’ comes next , focus grasshopper!
If this ‘Letter’ doesn’t lay the case to rest …again …nothing will. The principle , so humbly presented , historically preserved , fought for over and over , carries many implications every shoulder ought to carry , and, as you watch the walk ,those shoulders, set the example , The Path , quietly, humbly . Those are real leaders.
Left here…..😉
💙💙VOTE ALL THE COMPLICIT OUT💙💙
Just remember the Crusades. Or any of the so-called holy wars. We kill to be kind. We must heal the benighted savage and bring him to god. Tommyrot. I wonder if they mis-spelled god when they actually meant gold. I wonder if they said dominus vobiscum when they meant Lord, let me dominate.
I read In The Name of God book years ago ,but even before that I was jumped into by LOVE , I was seven. Understood perfectly then, several epiphanies later and more clearly defined The Path I felt ‘Christ’ walked and looked far more those that followed this as the evidence in …my soul?..definitely my heart…but I also saw, see…how manipulation for the convenience of control can use the best for the worst , how people can be mislead, coerced, brainwashed, and abuse all with lavish praise of whatever…more if not usually TALK and not …walk.
Great post, thank you. 👏
Patricia, your reference to "tighty whities" is fabulous. I love your lack of focus as your mind wanders off. Like mine, it is probably to little to go off unsupervised!
🤣🤣🤣 OMG I can’t even hide that..nor any longer try..y’all have to pay attention and finish off my sentences , read between the lines, commas, etc.…my husband (Bless his heart us WVginians say) is so good keeping an eye on me, inspecting any task for completion …such the great honor,,and you …noticing ! 🫶 my nickname in HS ? ‘space cadet ‘ go figure….LOL
Some years ago, I heard a talk by a Presbyterian pastor that said exactly that. Surely their are Churches that reject the claims of fanatics. We should hear more from them.
Check out http:faithfulamerica.org It's an organization led by mainstream Christians, and you don't have to be one to support their fight against Christian nationalism.
Their latest petition calls for Speaker Johnson to stop inviting Christian Nationalists to give prayers on the House floor.
Loaded indeed!!
This should not be astounding. People with these beliefs have always been here, but were set back into a “government caring for others” world during Franklin Roosevelt’s presidency. They do not recognize that portion of their religion, but choose to believe the “god punishes if you break the rules that men have set” stuff.
It will be a struggle to return to a caring atmosphere, because they strongly believe in “individual responsibility for whatever your situation is” and condemning every “sinner” who doesn’t follow the manmade rules of THEIR church. They have spent many years quietly assuming positions of power and are now exercising it, influencing the “believing” masses.
Ellen e.,
I agree!!!! Faith is one thing....brainwashing another!!!!
Ellen, Dr. Richardson referenced a work by James Madison, "Memorial and Remonstrance against Religious Assessment." Here's more of what he wrote.
"The manner of discharging (religion) can be directed only by reason and conviction, not by force or violence.
Because if religion be exempt from the authority of the Society at large, still less can it be subject to that of the Legislative Body. Their jurisdiction is both derivative and limited.
The Rulers who are guilty of such an encroachment exceed the commission.
The religion of every man must be left to the conviction and conscience of every man; and it is the right of every man to exercise it as these may dictate." Amen. (my word)
I sent this information to my senator, who is very religious and supports all of Mike Johnson's words and actions. Haven't had a response.
Thank you, Pam.
😊
I cannot even speak coherently about the evil of this subject. It is too dark.
The Christian Nationalists are ready to re-create the Spanish Inquisition.
Say decline with stats only. Their influence is growing steadily. It been just a couple of months that since I was introduced to “Christian Nationalism” first by friends, then by Rev. Paul Raushenbush, Director of Interfaith Alliance, who spoke to The Unitarian Universalist Church of Miami congregation and has been speaking frequently around the Country. You can view his talk here and it begins at about 52/53:00z. https://www.youtube.com/live/eqfu3ZeGKOM?si=_SqmgSRztedyeL2I . Since then I’ve been more keenly aware of this movement since it is hard to detect without having it brought to my attention. There is also a book by Katherine Stewart “The Power Worshippers” I encourage all who need more specifics to read. Published in 2019, the author writes about her research and investigation into this group beginning in 2009 while her daughter was in elementary school. She witnessed a group meeting at the school and curiosity gave her enough information to go further. This group is indeed small at this time. A few folks with A LOT of money and influence who know how to play the public just like the current Republican front running candidate. Of course he’s riding on their coattails…
Which is why we must wrest control of Congress from the MAGA minority in November and enlarge the Supreme Court with rational jurists.
I read the letter before I went to bed last night on FB. I didn't sleep so well last night.
The only way out is super majorities and the only way of achieving this is moderation not progressive politics. I have written on this ad nauseoum and don’t need to go into specifics. We can be our own worse enemy.
I think that, if a survey were to be done, most actual Christians and their denominations would insist on separation of church and state. I am a member and retired pastor of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (Evangelical in the original sense) and our ELCA believes strongly in that separation and has said so publicly many times. I suppose the problem is that we tend to be too quiet; time to speak out once again for the separation of church and state.
Please do. Speak out loudly and often. I'm not religious and it's easy for me to point at religion as a cause of more problems than cures because of the outsized effect of certain types of religious movements which certainly don't reflect the whole. Evangelicals are engaged in a war against the rest of us. It's time we recognized it and acted accordingly.
Oh, but they do reflect the whole. Organized religion has been the bane of human existence for thousands of years, mostly because religion is used to divide, not unite.
Thank you.
And put your money in the basket.
As a devout Roman Catholic, I suspect I am in a minority of participants to this site, which is just fine. I do not think the efforts by some to make the U. S. A. a Christian nation are rational and if those who desire such are successful, it could likely be a major step towards the unraveling of the political and social constructs in our Country as we know it. Quite a number of years ago, Robert Drinan, a Jesuit priest was a congressional representative for ten years, from the State of Ohio. Pope St. John Paul II required Drinan (and other priests and religious) to remove themselves from political office. Drinan complied and had a distinguished career as an academic and author. The point I am trying to make is that organized religion can operate within the framework provided by the First Amendment of the Constitution guaranteeing among other things, the "free expression of religion, and the freedom to not practice religion." This has existed, relatively successfully, for over 200 years. But certain people holding or seeking to hold political become enamored with the political and social environments found in such places as Hungary, Russia, and Turkey, etc.
I was raised in what I would call a "Very Catholic home". My mother went to a Catholic girls boarding school, my dad converted to Catholicism to marry my mother, my brother and I went to a Catholic school and had nuns (Immaculate Heart of Mary) for teachers. Our vacations were trips to visit the nuns that were my mothers teachers and we almost always stayed in the convents with them and my brother graduated from a Catholic College where his teachers were Jesuits priests...you get the idea.
Thank you Peter. I think there are good people everywhere and it sounds like Robert Drinan was one of them. Unfortunately, there are many who were or are not like him.
I would say that I left the Catholic faith mentally and emotionally when I was 14 and in 9th grade. I witnessed the abject cruelty of the nuns and how theiy wielded their power over the students. If you were weak, they reveled in "putting you in your place". After I watching them physically beat and expel a girlfriend of mine who came from very difficult circumstances I knew what hypocrites they were. I left totally as soon as I went away to college and have never looked back.
I am not trying to say that all Catholics (or religious people for that matter) fall into this category but the fact that women still cannot become priests or that the church is still run only by men just shows how hieretical it still is. The current pope has tried to change and modernize the church but many priests and cardinals fight him all the way. This is about power, not religion.
Many wars have been fought in the name of religion. In my mind, religion is a made up excuse for people who want to justify their actions that either they do or don't do things in the "name of God". I am sorry, this is just my jaded viewpoint.
I support that, and having left the segregated Southern Baptist church behind in the seventies, it was obvious to me that women were right behind people of color in the hierarchy. Nevermind that a coterie of female teachers and mill workers raised most of the money for the missionaries the denomination sent to Africa and Latin America. (Those converts, of course, would be shunned in the denomination's churches in the US.) The women of my mother's generation cooked tirelessly for men who ran the whole operation but were never given any status. Now any congregation with a woman in the pulpit can no longer be a member of the Southern Baptist Convention.
It is really sad. I think when women started demanding more status at home, in the workplace and in some churches white males became frightened of what would come next. I have female friends who left an Episcopalian church in my little town when it wouldn't allow a female priest. For them, it was lucky there was another one not far away that was much more open and had a female priest, a food bank, welcomed people of color, and an outreach for people who were LGBTQ, etc. etc. so I know they exist.
Men gravitate to power, well some
Human beings of every race and sex seem to include some who live to try to dominate others. That said, traditions of dominating and restricting women are widespread around the globe. It makes no sense except from the standpoint the power tends to corrupt. Some governments enforce prejudice and others moderate it. I think we as humans need to pay much closer attention to human nature, and its impact on our our own individual and societal lives.
The pecking order doesn’t allow for much equality…
One of the constraints of offering opinions on sites such as this is that few of us spend much if any time in downright dig-in research! Indeed, women are still held back in many ways and many professional occupations are still outside their reach. However, there are more women police chiefs, district attorneys, prosecutors, judges, hospital CEOs, university presidents, etc. (not 'downright dig-in research'), and more. Someone might respond by saying that what women have achieved is only a 'scratch on the surface' of broad opportunities that offer upward mobility.
Yes , I have a catholic upbringing too. My uncle was traumatized by the nuns in Houllton Maine back in the 40s. I think true god is found in the natural world, like many Indians have said.
For insights (and more reason for indignation) read "Playing God: American Catholic Bishops and the Far Right" by Mary Jo McConahay.
Thank you Mary Pat. I will look into finding it...however, how much more indignation can one take after seeing what the orange menace and his cronies are getting away with!?
True. We need to "save" ourselves first.
Thank you, Mary Pat. " Playing God" shows the trajectory to the Right of the USCCB (United States Conference of Catholic Bishops). It is an example of a leadership body aligning itself in a politically partisan way and getting funded for it by the Leonard Leo's of our time. There is no doubt in my mind that the 28million dollar Eucharistic Congress coming up in Indianapolis is funded this way.
So the Conference is pro- birth, not pro-life; politically transactional as opposed to the common good; pietistical in language, hypocritical in action; and, anti-Pope Francis's efforts to transform the church out of its clericalism and patriarchy. A handful of Bishops speak out against this trajectory; a large number are complicity silent; enough have bought into it and are vocal, whether out of conscience or out of concern for their church careers.
Not all U.S.Catholics followed the far right bishops, choosing the other path in this particular fork in the road. And, of course, many younger people just completely ignore the organized church of their parents and grandparent. As a body the US Bishops are looking back and seeing fewer and fewer folks following. They are worried and do not know what to do except to resort to the familiar MO--pray, pay and obey.
Thank you for this sad (and scary?) summary of The Church today. I have experienced this at a more personal level: a brother who won't get vaccinated because the priest said not to; a dear friend who echoes Amy Conan Bryant on birth control; the wife of a diocesan official who is kept in her place. All intelligent and good (if blindly obedient) people. It is an unholy war against the gentle leader I call "Pope Saint Francis." Let us pray...
To paraphrase: "Oh, what glory there is, when men of God suppress all others." Or, when their self-righteousness leads them to believe that they, themselves, are divine.
Someone once wrote, "Choose from the various goods." I'll leave it there.
Colette.
I absolutely understand. My attitude is not something I am comfortable with but I cannot receive a spiritual message from a place where there is so little love for and so much judgement....as if any of us are perfect...that is the whole purpose of faith...we are supposed to love as Christ loved us ....He did not judge but gave Himself up for us and we are to love one another in the same way.
While I have sadness reading your post, and while I am very aware of the abuses of priests and religious, I remain with Catholicism due to the Eucharist - the source and summit of my (and millions of others) faith. The organizational struggles that accompany a quest for change within Catholicism have been, and will continue to be challenging for Church leaders and laity alike. I believe the Holy Spirit will guide and bring clarity to leaders and laity, as well. The Church needs my prayers just as well as my other prayer intentions.
I share similar thoughts and reasons for leaving…hypocrisy and patriarchal.
My guess is that a majority of Catholic nuns are sweet and generous people, yet among my friends and acquaintances over many years I have heard some really disturbing stories of cruelty they experienced or witnessed in Catholic School at the hand's of nuns. It's rather baffling to me that such a thing would be tolerated. Jesus so far as I recall always prescribed kindness.
Amen.
Peter Connor, yes certain people are taken by the love of controlling, exploiting, and harming people not serving them. Somewhere in them, they know it's wrong, so they sadly use religion as a rationalization and justification.
Drinan was my Congressman before he was forced to end his political career by the Archdiocese of Boston and replaced by Barney Frank.
Both men were hugely popular despite their human frailties that most of us succumb to at times. That humanity made both men great representatives because they combined intelligence, courage and empathy.
Drinan and Frank, good men, could not have been different. I wonder what happened to them?
Fr. Drinan, S. J., died in 2007.
Absolutely spot on, Peter!
Yet, the late, great Robert Drinan S.J. was from the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, not the Buckeye State.
Ah! Mea culpa (I may as well invoke a little church latin into this discussion!)! Why I thought Ohio I'll never know.
Ha! No problem, Peter. Dominus vobiscum.
Oh, boy. Could we have some fun? Et cum spiritu tuo!
Ha!
Of all the gin joints----- To meet up with another former altar boy within the Letters from an American site, now that's pretty cool!
Peter,
I am a person of faith as well but I cannot find a place to worship where "living out our faith" by loving all and serving those in need without prejudice is most important.
It breaks my heart.
I'm 'just an Irish guy' who can walk into a two man fight and make it three! All I can say Emily, is pray for the intervention of the Holy Spirit to help you and others on your journey. Pax Vobis!
Speaking of Irish, I have become a fan of two Irish poets (who were good friends) explore spiritual issues is ways that resonate for me: John ODonohue and David Whyte.
Robert Drinan, a very good man, was a representative from Massachusetts. He opposed the Vietnam War, supported the impeachment of Nixon and, while in office, supported a woman’s right to choose.
Joe is proof of what you say. And he is maligned to the max while the orange Jesus is elevated.
Yes, I agree that organized religion can operate within the framework of the 1st amendment. But read "Playing God" by Mary Jo McConahay. Our organized religion can also destroy it.
On the path to destroy as we post…
We don’t hear much from the religious left, do we?
In my experience, they tend to mind their own business, don’t impose their values on others, and generally focus more on social justice. A very different world view than the religious right.
My UU church, which keeps me sane
If one’s religious beliefs guide them to social justice…thank you.
J. Edgar Hoover branded MLK a "communist" and tried to bring him down. I read that the Denver PD put Quakers on a "Terrorist Watch List" after 9/11. Somehow non-violence is considered a threat.
Of course, Madison and co showed enormous foresight when you consider that all that happened before Charles Darwin.
And even more so, Teilhard de Chardin SJ. It is love that is evolving, in its many forms, parental, intimate, social care, friendship, and altruistic, etc. Such attempts to control others only holds back the inevitable unity of all humankind that may take centuries but will indeed occur. We can influence that process but not force or control it. Back off extremists of Christian, Muslim, or any other roots. Freedom is essential to the process.
Teilhard de Chardin was one of my heroes in my late teens. I think that a loving society very well might evolve (if we really want one) if we don't go off the rails first. Evolution will continue with or without us. It's been so long since I read Teilhard de Chardin that the details have faded, but I know I carried away some of his way of thinking. we seem to have an inward and outward nature, a freedom within and a freedom in relation to our environment. Social freedom is a shared responsibility, we protect it for one another.
Patricia,
My daughter is a Lutheran Pastor. She is doing great work serving and is also a gifted messenger of faith.
She represents a God with a big love for all of us.
Thank you for serving with your life: mind and heart and strength.
It’s not just that we’re too quiet. (I ‘m a retired Episcopal priest) The Christian Nationalists have created an organized political movement. Organizations like Ralph Drollinger’s Capital Ministries have infiltrated the highest levels of our government where they lead “Bible Studies” that are policy guides for lawmakers. These organizations travel the country speaking to conservative preachers and hand out “sermons” and voters guides that advise congregants how to vote. And in the meantime, mainstream churches focus on quilting blankets for homeless people. A kind gesture but not quite enough in this moment.
Please do speak out, Patricia. If anyone can reach the fanatics (and that's a big if) it will be people they consider "of faith." My own faith count for less than nothing with them.
I’m afraid the “Christian” nationalists aren’t listening to anyone outside their cult. But I just read that some Republicans are growing uneasy because of the fanaticism.
If the seven mountain mandate is followed, the population of the US will be living in fear, much as the people of Russia or any authoritarian nation does.
This is exactly why the GOP now reveres Putin.
a man that is the opposite of Jesus.
The classic devil's bargain is the trade of one's soul for money and other forms of power.
These people are more dangerous than the Taliban in Afghanistan.
More dangerous for the planet.
It had to quantify. They share a dangerous, self-centered fanaticism.
That is the intention.
the way of life in ALL theocratic states.
Under the Alabama ruling, is menstruation murder?
I actually had that same thought when I heard one commentary exploring the fact that one could go back before fertilization to determine that a life was taken. And bless his heart, Michael Moore had a whole riff on Ari Melber's show about men paying attention to the fact that millions of "insert euphemism here" were destroyed every time you...you know. Sigh...it's come to this. I'm going to be post carding and phone banking quite a bit in these next months!
Add to that 😂 thought: The number of years behind bars you can expect as a maintenance worker cleaning out contaminated IVF repositories which is a fairly common occurrence. Is the organization in which the contamination occurred liable for wrongful death? Thinking about the new corporate and professional liability insurance product ....hmmm
Hmmm, indeed.
Oh my, it was so much easier to carry out unjust laws in the old days!!
Excellent Ari Melber/Michael Moore riff! Couldn't figure out how to share it here. Worth looking up!
https://www.msnbc.com/the-beat-with-ari/watch/maga-all-in-on-trump-at-cpac-michael-moore-x-melber-204753477632
Got to more people dying from wind turbines than nuclear power and am taking a long pause. Will continue after a few more sips of coffee. 🤯🤬 Thanks for the link!
I know, right? I think the fact that I've heard such nonsense from a number of the House Republicans and their leader, I mean their real leader, makes it clear to me how little they think of the folks in their base.
The bigger the lie the more some people believe it. Weird huh?
Stick to the "blue pill" and GOP needn't work to make it believable. It sells because because they want to believe it, or fear that it's true.
Thank you, I forgot to add a link!
<curtsies>
Judith, the next step is ruling that IUD’s and morning after pills prevent implantation of a fertilized egg, while birth control pills make the uterine lining inhospitable, so they need to be outlawed since they lead to the possible destruction of a fertilized egg.
Basically, you (and your doctors and medical professionals ) break the law if you try to have more or fewer children than the church leaders believe that their God intended. After seeing two women die in childbirth because they chose to keep getting pregnant (their priest told them that using birth control went against God’s will), I shudder to think how many more will die because of these laws. Right now, it’s estimated that 26,000 women in Texas have had to continue carrying their rapist’s child. Luckily, unlike in Minnesota, if clear evidence points to the rape having led to the conception of the child, the rapist has no parental visitation rights.
https://www.dallasnews.com/news/public-health/2024/01/25/texas-had-estimated-26000-pregnancies-from-rape-since-total-abortion-ban/?outputType=amp
https://www.mylifetime.com/movies/you-cant-take-my-daughter/articles/how-parental-rights-for-rapists-vary-by-state
Mary, that's already documented in the Heritage Project 2025.
Lisa, thanks for reminding us where it’s written.
I'll guarantee you that's coming.
Bingo! Jeez. Thats a domino effect. I fear u r correct. Banning contraceptives nationally. Amy Bartlett is frothing.
Ted—it’s been proven that free, easily available contraceptives reduce abortions more than antiabortion laws (by 62-78%). Imagine what would happen if tubal ligations, IUD’s and hormonal birth control along with vasectomies were free and easily available.
https://medicine.wustl.edu/news/access-to-free-birth-control-reduces-abortion-rates/
Mary Hardt, brilliant, Never thought about it that way --- contraceptives prevent abortions. But then abortion isn't really their objection. Not being able to control women is.
Ah…..but it doesn’t prevent sex, which is the real target of their power-mongering.
MLRGRMI, I think some may want to prevent sex (or maybe just sex for pleasure but not for breeding), and some want to control the who, what, where, when, and how of it. They are very sick people.
This truth doesn't often get mentioned. What when your man comes home randy and unstoppable?
Scream it from the rooftops.
Don’t blame any “good Lord” for the inanity of the power hungry demons who are trying to seize power over ALL of us.
Jeri, I should have inserted quotation marks around that part. I’ll fix it.
No criticism intended.
Understood—it’s interesting to see how different people read things—thank you for your help in making my comment clearer.
You need no help, just add my two-cents worth.
These white conservative christian Republican males sure don’t ever bring up male masturbation do they? Guys would be sentenced to a millions of years for murder. It’s really about voter suppression. Couples that can afford IVF, are typically well to do, educated, 30-40s. Their kids will most likely turn out to be more educated, and better off. These people tend to vote Democrat. And WCC’s don’t like that.
Watch Ali Melber's piece on MSNBC with Michael Moore! (I couldn't figure out how to share it or would post here. Excellent!).
https://www.msnbc.com/the-beat-with-ari/watch/maga-all-in-on-trump-at-cpac-michael-moore-x-melber-204753477632
Thank You, Ally!
I turned if off halfway through and turned myself into the abortion police. /S
I read an article awhile back that the state of Texas was trying to pass a law that if a woman had a miscarriage she could be imprisoned for that. That was about the most barbaric thing i had ever heard of. These religious fanatics have completely gone off the rails. That is cruelty to the extreme.
Yes, my state of birth has devolved into a real s..thole
Then there's this:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/11/ohio-woman-miscarriage-not-indicted-abuse-corpse-brittany-watts
I can see it now…collecting and locking up tampons for evidence.
And why are men not immediately forced to pay child support upon conception??? And why may men take viagra if it’s not God’s will that they have an erection???Sorry-the hypocrisy is stunning.
I would love it if journalists would pose that question to the cretins who want to reign over women.
And how about in all of the 26,000 rapes that resulted in pregnancy in the forced birth states, that based solely on DNA evidence they must pay child support fees until the child is 21. But, they also need to be punished for the rape and be released to work off their debt.
EXACTLY!!!
"women are made for marriage" and menstruation is unclean. Burka's next?How archaic!
Absolutely not. Menstruation is just the sloughing off of the uterine lining when there has been no implantation of a fertilised ovum.
I am 67 years old. I will never forget the book my mother gave me to explain the facts of life, and it read that mensuration was the uterus "weeping because there was no fetus"
This is not a joke,.
It also stated that when women became engaged, they should start taking their fiances socks and washing them, to prepare for housekeeping as a wife!!
Miselle,. geez, we sure have progressed as a society and some men are angry about it. They want "their" power back.
'Da Gooood 'Ole Days'. GOP is probably doing a book reprint as we sit here.
Oh Lordy, I am older than you, and thankfully was spared that absolute crap.
Ah yes, “The Good Ole Days”🙄
Ouch! That's even scarier than Mary Shelley's Frankenstein.
Was the author a Catholic priest?
Oh, my goodness!
Talia, I think that cForestM is talking about proving that your period wasn’t an early miscarriage.
What about men masturbating? Or their nocturnal emissions?
Legal domestic abuse of chattel will return, legitimized only makes sense... as we are told what "they" intend. Bridel MTG please! Absolutely! ~ Get out and vote.
Is Alabama going to make male masturbation illegal too? All that wasted sperm are potential children after all.
No. Sperm are sacred as are sperm producers.
No. Suicide.
Ejaculation?
I wondered that same question…
What a fascinating historical analysis tying so many things together, many of them I hadn't known. But taken as a whole the professor's commentary also evokes horror, horror at the crazed zeal with which some people are pursuing a theocracy.
The Mike Johnsons and Tom Parkers of our world have a common characteristic: they claim to know what their god wants and dictate that everyone must embrace their views. Step back from that a second and think about what it says about them — and the danger it poses.
Is it not, at least in spirit, the Taliban or some other grotesquely pious and hypocritical "religious" like-minded group that wants to control literally everything — including our very thoughts?
I cannot understand how these white men think they even know what god wants! Aren’t they just simple humans like the rest of us?
Not only what god wants, but who or what god is! And it's not just white men.
This made me remember a groundbreaking book from 30 years ago - The Chalice and the Blade - Our history Our future, by Riane Eisler. She called her studies "cultural transformation theory," that is transformation of human history from a partnership model (Chalice) to a dominator model (blade), and how we can evolve to partnership model again. She brings in all manner of sciences and I'm suddenly feeling the need to go read it again - LA Weekly said it "may be the most significant work published in all our lifetimes." Google: "Riane Tennenhaus Eisler is an Austrian-born American systems scientist and author who writes about the effect of gender politics historically on society." Between Heather and Riane, (and Jessica, Robert and Simon!) I'm feeling hopeful again!
YES. The Chalice and the Blade is a FANTASTIC book.
Thanks for the reference, Chaplain. I've seen the book; with your recommendation, I'll give that a read.
Brenda Phillips, they have created God in their own image. Just substitute their name because it really is them who want to harm and obsessively control people.
Thus breaking the first Commandment-you shall have no other gods-that includes themselves.
“Thou shalt not make false images of God.”
The Book of Job said something about hubris.
Jen Schaefer, hahaha
I get color large format post cards from local fundamentalist churches which show Jesus and apostles as whiter than white.
J L Graham, our churches have buried a lot of truths for the love of the power. On PBS's "Nuns on the Bus" documentary, some traveled to an ancient church, in Eastern Europe I believe, to see a mosiac at the alter that showed an equal number of women and men apostles. The nuns said dang the church always told us we couldn't give sacrements and be equals to the male priests and here is the proof that we use to be equal in power to the men in the church.
But alas, we humans are waking up to ourselves, becoming more reflective and aware, and so rapidly evolving for the better. But to hold onto hierarchial power, some are doubling down, becoming even more violent, even more unconscious, devolving as the GOP, religious extremists, militias, etc are.
Because they made god in their image. The rest is just marketing. .
Good one!
Bingo.
But Brenda, they do not think they are anywhere near like us peons!
Supremacists always have a story about why their club is naturally superior to everybody else, often by "breeding" as feudal aristocrats used to (and I think still do ) argue. Then you have to ask what you are breeding for? Royal families were getting a bit too inbred there. Then there is race, which science regards as all but insignificant. I recall Richard Feynman speaking of student days in which he was inducted into a honor society in which the honored spent all their collegial time discussing which of their peers was worthy enough to be in the honor society. I know what it's like to have an ego, but it does us no favors, and sometimes very substantial harm when we let it run the show.
They don’t know Schitt. I don’t, they have no magical powers, so they don’t know Jack Schitt Either.
Only difference I see is Taliban are more accepting of darker colored skin.
Does it occur that rather than true believers these bullies are hypocrites who have found a a lucrative niche for themselves. A path to power and wealth, cloaked in piety. Mining credulity. There certainly is precedent.
Steve Martin's Jonas Nightengale in "True Believer".
Clint Eastwood's 'Bronco Billy'.
I'm sure there's a mix — true-but-deluded believers, grifters, and everything in between.
I think the fool who rushed into the Comet Ping Pong Pizza place, gun blazing really thought he was rescuing abused children. Manipulators like Trump who craft and spread lies know very well what they are doing, and are proud of it.
F*ck...
We—each and everyone of us reading this—we must all stand up, speak out and fight for our values NOW, if we want to keep our freedoms and defend against these white, Christian nationalists whom the wealthy, well-connected few have enlisted to distract and divide, so they can invoke minority rule over the majority of us.
The racism, nativism, misogyny and LGBTQ-hatred is intended to stoke fear because they loathe progress, equality, justice and our basic human rights.
We are literally seeing a “revolt against the future—the future will prevail,” but only when we ALL recognize our own agency and power to stand up against kleptocratic fascists like Putin, Netanyahu, Tr*mp and all his MAGA criminal co-conspirators.
Every measure of progress—the end to British tyranny, human enslavement, women’s suffrage, reproductive freedom, and the freedom to love who we love…every measure has ONLY ever been ceded because, together, we the people demanded, struggled, and persevered for it—we can and will win again!
Leonard Leo's gang of malignant narcissists Catholic zealots are bank rolling the 'Hate Thy Neighbor' campaign. The Christian Nationalists movement is growing. Watch out for the Joshua Generation. This isn't some half-ass bullshit here. This is a war on democracy. This is a war on women. Texas views women as chattel. They are pulling out the big guns. The GQP is the party of Putin. Holy fuck! The enemy is within. The United States is under attack by its own citizens and American Oligarchs that are using religion to own our ass.
The two sides of the fascist coin have always been the autocrat and the theocrat. Been that way for 8,000 years. Let us show them the wrath of an unholy electorate come next November.
Exactly James. I read Wallstreet is anticipating a Red Wave in November. Like the same one they said was coming in 2022? Who in fuck are these people? A blue tsunami is coming. They'll need scuba gear.
Let's make it so.
Getting ready to be able to donate more. Dems use my meager bucks wisely. It’s likely my last hurrah! Hint, no more emails to me. How about billboards.
Indeed...there will AGAIN be no red wave.
https://nataliehb.beehiiv.com/p/dont-buy-the-hype
True
I like your opening word. And you’re right. Everything you’ve laid out is exactly why the religists are trying to push everyone who doesn’t fit the WASPm role.
Well parried. Brutally frank perspective.💯🎯
Heather makes clear, through her contrasting this moment with our (unreconciled) past, exactly what is at stake. She is one of my guiding lights…
Indeed, I am aware of no one else who can routinely and so clearly, map historical context onto a present-day situation to highlight societal contrast like Heather can. Truly an enlightening beacon. She and Joyce Vance regularly set off sparks in my brain with their formidable acumen and ability to parse and describe concepts and events that can resonate (and thereby connect) with so many minds.
What you said, Marc!
Agreed.
This is terribly depressing, Heather.
Alarming. I will not accept a change where religion rules our government. I will speak up, act, and vote.
The time for that action is rapidly disappearing. The conservative Christian movement has been in overdrive ever since W enlisted them in the effort to re-elect his father.
It's interesting to note, by way of showing the evolution of evangelicals, that in the early 90s, evangelicals were quite concerned about climate change. However, oil company backed organizations, such as the Cornwall Alliance, who published a manifesto and crushed the movement to save the planet in God's name, with a mixture of denialism and Free Market Jesus insanity. I wrote a paper about the evolution of evangelical thought about climate change in law school and ended up reading some truly horrific screeds. That was in 2011 and it's only gotten worse. The first inkling of this kind of Dominionist thought was from James Watt, Reagan's Secretary of Destroying the Planet, oops, I mean Secretary of the Interior.
https://cornwallalliance.org/landmark-documents/the-biblical-perspective-of-environmental-stewardship-subduing-and-ruling-the-earth-to-the-glory-of-god-and-the-benefit-of-our-neighbors/
Remember during Reagan's reign - "how much energy would it take to destroy the environment? - One Watt".
Good one! At least now we have a fantastic woman running the Department of the Interior. I love what Secretary Haaland has accomplished at the DOI.
I remember that. It was back when I thought that reason would rule.
I had the motion that we were confusion and all the delusion behind.
Then the (Big Money) Empire stuck back.
The Big Money Empire. Damn, when they woke up, it was like the attack of the Martians. And they even radiated green…
I do indeed. Thanks for the reminder.
Get a load of this one:
9. We affirm that by God’s design Earth and its physical and biological systems are robust, resilient, and self-correcting.
We deny that they are fragile.
Follow the money and you'll find oil companies sponsoring this organization. I also read some books that were far more frightening. Sadly, what was outlier philosophy in 2011 has become mainstream for conservatives.
Well, they are both. At least at this point, we probably could not sterilize the entire planet if we gave it our best shot. On the other hand, species can be very fragile, and anthropocene extinctions are proceeding at a terrifying rate. Our could well be among the casualties. Ecological self-correction often involves nasty population crashes. We seem to be endowed with enough sense to avoid some of the slings and arrows nature can deliver to us, but we have to get our priorities straight. Road rage mentality has a very poor prognosis.
Truly scary set of beliefs and restrictions of thought!
Oh, god.
Thanks for this post/link Edwin. I have realised recently that trust is on the chopping
block. Not that it hasn't always been part of us ,but now with the internet we have more interaction with it. Saddle up and grab the reins cause AI will only intensify the
already difficult position we are in.
In Texas, voting is not likely to help you. The “righteous” are in charge.
As we all must do, as our mission this year.
Sometimes you have to remember a line that annihilates the idea that white men have dominion over their "subordinates:" "A man is not a plan." Fani Willis
But the men, and women, who are trying to impose their fundamentalist religion on the rest of us just might succeed if we, the majority, can’t muster enough votes in November. Their plan must be defeated
Got that right Mim: Recall that circa 10/13/20 at her appointment hearing, Amy Coney Barrett refused to answer the question of whether criminalizing IVF was constitutional using the standard doge that the issue could come before SCOTUS ... now even more likely.
The ongoing attacks post-ROE of women's rights, family rights, indeed, human rights must be defeated.
We need to be out knocking on doors.
I come from the targeted marketing and sales background. So my approach, mentioned previously by me, and another yesterday is what recommend. Tkae a friend (maybe for christians, another Christian) and discuss with them the perversion of their faith and the real dangers of combining Church and State(there are soooo many examples). Bring them "off the fence" to the Biden side and double the impact of your vote. If enough of us double, triple, multiply our votes through friendly discussion and teaching, we are doing a valuable job in beating the Mango Muffin and his Christian Fascist hordes. That's what some of us are doing. Not that your approach is wrong, I just can't ring on doorbells...I feel like a politician.
Yes Bruce - we need to copy the strategy of the Mormans, but first we need to assemble the phalanx of determined youth (they are there - but how do you "gather them to the fold?"
Youth is already at it for themselves, but you can help by donating, joining or spreading the word. https://www.turnup.us/. One of us mentioned them the other day. They are already working the youth side, and from what I can see, quite effectively and with a whole pile of ENERGY.
Oh please, I thought that the Mormons that I knew were “salt of the earth” people. Then I realized that they had a missionary zeal that would overrun us all…
In Arkansas, many are gathering signatures in an attempt to reign in the anti-abortion craziness.
I absolutely love that line!
But as they join together, so must we.
R's can't win when we show up to vote.
That is definitely the name of the game. We must get out the vote.
They 'know' that Ted; that's the 'why' of gerrymandering in my opinion. Theirs too as I've heard.
Tyranny of the Minority by Steven Livitsky and Daniel Ziblat
Just finished this book. It’s a great read explaining how we got here and how to get past this growing threat of minority rule.
More than gerrymandering. They are desperate. Voter suppression, purging registered voters, filibuster, electoral college, a house that doesn’t want crease with population. The small red states have too much power. The framers gave too much power to the minority to prevent oppression by the majority. ( mainly to get enslaver southern states to agree and sign the constitution.European democracies have evolved much faster and fixed their constitutions to prevent the abuse by the minority.
D4N, "gerrymandering" has been defeated in some such as Michigan. Additional representative districts have been added in some states that have been missing since 1783 such as Georgia. New political landscapes require new political tactics & up-to-date voting strategies based on accurate data.
Yes - We did it in Michigan!
https://votersnotpoliticians.com/redistricting/
R's can't win when we show up to vote Democratic.
That’s is true but it’s also doesn’t address this fact. The larger the turnout, the more people that vote, D’s typically win that race. We outnumber R’s. The way they win is gerrymandering, the electoral college, a house that isn’t expanding with population, voter suppression, a senate that from gerrymandered states represent a minority. The filibuster. These are all anti democracy and need to be addressed. There is a ton to learn so that when we have the power, we fix the system. Sharing this book with the herd, Tyranny of the Minority.
Thanks!
Tyranny of the Minority: How to Reverse an Authoritarian Turn, and Forge a Democracy for All https://g.co/kgs/uXnmgx6
Texas has plans to overturn any vote that doesn’t keep them in power. They mean it.
Ted, I don't think the house could function with more members, but if we got to weight the votes; if a California Representative had a district that had 1 million voters, that Representative's vote should have proportionally more "weight" than a Representative whose voters number 100,000, it would truly be representative government. Same in the Senate. Keep it at 100, but let the Senators from CA or NY have more clout than Senators from WY or RI.
We live with many myths about our democracy. Our Constitution was written in 1780s. We are less of a democracy than most European democracies that are half as old as the US. Norway is a great example of a younger democracy grading higher than we do. Germany has a great system that corrects our founders mistakes concerning tyranny of a majority that have been manipulated to a real tyranny of the minority. Today, less than 40% of the population has control and possibly could turn our democracy into autocracy. That alone should concern us enough to examine all the ways that are making possible the unthinkable. Everyone should read Tyranny of the Minority-Livitsky
The R's can't even win at their own CPAC convention. No one showed up. Maybe they would have more luck if it was held in a gynecologists office.
They think that they don’t need a majority, except on the SC. Maybe these are the times when we see them jump the shark.
In Texas they can, and do.
When we see it in all its naked self-righteousness, we must call it out for what it is. The vast majority of the USA recognizes theocracy as a passel of snake oil peddlers and wants no part of it.
Then start voting as such. These religious zealots need to be repulsed in the most over whelming way possible
From a distance it already looks as if you are - just not a Christian but a Jewish one.
How do you figure? It might appear that way from a distance but the reason that conservatives support Israel so fiercely is to fulfill the Biblical prophecies in Revelation which state that Israel must go back to its historical borders in order to hasten the return of Christ. Evangelicals have contempt for Jews who they see as heading to the hot place unless they accept Jesus as their personal savior. It's the state of Israel they support. Which is pretty horrific. Religion in general seems to largely be a way to reduce human beings to members of a group and inevitably, you get people in the group who outdo each other in their displays of piety that resort to crushing others for power and profit. Their Jesus has no love.
Who talks about love? The US sends every year 3.8 billion dollars to Israel - a country with a population (Jewish part) of just above the people living in New York. Israel has public healthcare and pretty much free education. Nice of the States to supply that, considering its own population doesn't have it. But hey, you do you :)
Personally - I would be pretty miffed if I was American, luckily Í'm not.
I am beyond miffed. Apoplectic might describe it! :-)
This is a serious problem, fueled by evangelicals who want to see Israel regain their biblical borders in order to trigger Revelations. The whole thing is so sick.
Í don't think it's about the religion, that's just the story to keep the stupid masses on side - the wars for the last resources have started is my guess, there are already plans drawn and applications lodged for mining in the Mediterranean, the Palestinians are in the way. It's always about the Benjamins. We all know that America comes, yelling "FREEDOM!" as soon as it smells oil somewhere.
In addition - considering the current American government consists exclusively of people of Jewish faith, except the president and the minister for defence, the Palestinians have a snowball's chance in hell, although about 85% of the world's population is in support of Palestine. Very interesting to follow the cases against Israeli occupation of Gaza and the case of Israel committing genocide that are in front of the International Court of Justice in Le Hague. Of course a shame that the highest court in the world is just something the US listens to if it's in its own interest, the hypocrisy is just beyond the pale.
However, even worse to me personally as former German is the fact, that Germany defends Israel against the genocide charges, mainly with the argument "it's not a genocide, really" and goes on happily supplying weapons to the mass-slaughter, a fact that is of course held pretty much away from the German public. The idiots are currently running through the streets with "Never again!" signs, and they don't mean the Nakba.
A German saying is "I can't eat as much as I could throw up" that's pretty much my status at the moment.
While we have Jews in government, they are, for the most part, not Zionists. Our relationship to Israel is complicated by a number of factors, but the evangelicals are far more interested in supporting Israel in their aggressive actions as a bloc than any other group. But you are absolutely spot on. Hypocrisy is us (U.S.).
Edwin,
No religion should claim the right to slaughter innocent human citizens...starve them....push them out of their homes...allow for the neglect of women birthing babies as well as the baby itself....allow for the slaughter of young children, take away food and water, remove any form of necessary medical care for those who require such to live with a need for such care, shut down access for education that will effect these populations for years. By taking these cruel and unnecessary actions the enemy is also creating hate. We wonder why there are groups like Hamas. We are partly responsible for the creation of these groups because of our prejudicial and violent actions ...all for personal power. Religion is used for this purpose....but the real reason is personal power...religion is used to acquire the citizen's acceptance of such cruelty.
WE MUST STOP THE KILLING AND THE TAKING OF LAND THAT DOES NOT BELONG TO US!!!.
Edwin...many of us have added such false beliefs to our religions. These beliefs are not true but added to justify killings....added to control territory that is NOT ours.
The past is the past...we must learn to live and to work together if we are going to give our children hope and a future.
In my opinion, our resources should be used to build up, NOT to destroy!!!
Our choice of faith or not should be to support life NOT to destroy !!!
I agree 100%. Our country is based on killing and stealing land.
Have you read Vitoria's piece entitled "On The American Indian"? It has been hailed as a step forward for Native Americans because he was the first person to recognize them as human beings. However, what he goes on to say is horrifying. https://www.stanselminstitute.org/files/Vitoria%20On%20the%20American%20Indians.pdf
We have an 11 year old. I have so much concern for what the world will look like when he grows up.
Hope the rapture snares them sooner than later. I can do without their “on high” bull Schitt.
The appropriation of Zionism by Evangelicals is to promote the in-gathering of Jews to hasten the Second Coming when Jesus will convert them or damn them for eternity.
You are exactly correct. Everyone on here needs to grasp that.
We are in the phase of the rule by the minority. Speak up majority. Make Falwell’s prediction of rule by the silent majority true, only turned upside down.
Attribution of your own perverted beliefs to the power of God in your life is as old as the hills and as tenacious as a wolf trap. Being content with your status as a slave is straight from the Pauline letters. And I would rephrase what Jesus, a very smart and observant man said. "There are loads of people who spout BS and pretend it came from God. Keep your guard up and don't fall for it."
End of sermon.
Frank, but oh…don’t you remember that Speaker Mike Johnson informed us that God spoke to him and told him he is now the new Moses?
🤯 Mind shattering! Moses Mike or Mike Moses?
A Moses foretold by Sinclair Lewis: he's "wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross".
Frank Mitchell, great sermon!
Young people, I have been told, have been abandoning religion. Let's hope so!
When someone tells me their invisible friend is the master of everything, that their imaginary friend is talking to them, and we all have to do what their imaginary friend says -- and somebody wrote it down, you know -- the conversation has taken a turn off a cliff. But it happens often.
Their imaginary friend is not the boss of me. Or my country.
This sort of line has been indoctrinated in many if not most of us from an early age, me included. It wasn't easy to break free from it.
We have had religious freedom in the USA, but that has to include freedom *from* religion.
And -- stupidity is not a religion.
we have a hell of a lot of work to do this year, best luck to US - b.rad
ps thanks professor, amazing work, I know I say it every time, it's more than due
Brad, I’m closing in on my 75th year, and I, not once, had “religion” to lose. Just wasn’t the way of my family thank god (pun intended) going back at least three generations. Yet being secular, we were always taught compassion, kindness, lending a hand and contributing to the commons we all share. Took a course in college on religions of the world and found it very fascinating as well as horrifying at the cruelty done in religion’s name. That said, I do have lovely chats with the women who periodically (not since Covid however) came to my door with the Watchtower pamphlet….they knew that I was not religious, but I would bid them farewell by saying “may the Force be with you”.
My sister did much the same thing with any proselytizer who came to her door.
Same here. I enjoyed bantering with the Witnesses. It was almost always the same small group. They were older, like me, and I enjoyed their company for those brief periods. One day I walked with them across the street to their car, and we introduced ourselves. The man introduced himself as "Sam", and with a smile he asked if I remembered the singers from the '60s, Sam and Dave. I said I did, and always enjoyed their music. He suggested it would be easy to remember each other's names as Sam and Dave. I would be happy to have them as neighbors and friends. But I will retain my very personal beliefs about religion, because I did not arrive at my beliefs easily, nor quickly.
The media always couches the absence of butts in pews as “people leaving his”. But I view it as more people are abandoning / refusing to participate in hypocrisy, which is modern day “religion”.
Looks to me like the civil war never ended …
"How the South Won" by Heather Cox Richardson
Aside from the military warfare which stopped, in many ways, it didn't.
It didn't.
What is scary is that there are too many SCOTUS justices who agree with Parker. We are living in dangerous times.
Thank you for this Heather... 'tis sad it even needs to be a topic of discussion. It should be patent to any rational soul that this is an ego-driven warped theocratic abomination. This must be overturned and called out for the idiocy that it is.
Separation of Church and State IS A THING. It is not to be summarily dismissed by misguided zealots. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Separation_of_church_and_state
And some of these zealots are Supreme Court justices!
These zealots have no interest in the word of God or the teachings of Jesus. They just want money and power. Religion is a good tool for that.
Religion is a grifters paradise.
Edwin Hurwitz, my red flag is the justice's quote, "...... without incurring the wrath of God." They always mean their wrath. A loving God has no wrath, just understanding and dignity for you.
🎯💯
When Chief Justice of the Alabama Supreme Court states, "“human life cannot be wrongfully destroyed without incurring the wrath of a holy God,” I can't help but wonder if he has decided that the lives of the citizens of Gaza are not human and that Bibi Netanyahu has not transgressed and will not bring down the "wrath of a holy God" by allowing (encouraging) the IDF to destroy almost 30,000 of them.
Well said.
leave alone the West providing the weapons to do so - what would Jesus do?
He wouldn't do anything because the Christian conservatives would crucify him faster than you can blink.
I said that in a comment here yesterday. According to Christian Nationalists, Jesus is a Marxist Leftist.
Jesus and Ayn Rand in a political debate.
Jesus: "The Parable of The Good Samaritan" - When you find someone who needs a hand, lend a helping hand. And love your neighbor. And love your enemy.
Ayn Rand: "The Parables of 'The Fountainhead" and "Atlas Shrugged" - When you find someone who needs a helping hand, mind your own business, to help is to hurt, personal responsibility, put your own interests above all others and all will be well.
That's fabulous! Leonard Leo really attends the Church of Ayn Rand.
May the demon devil snatch them both. What damage both have done…
David, and toward the end of her life, Ayn Rand accepted the help she decried. This is the most nuanced explanation of this “reversal” that I’ve discovered: https://www.openculture.com/2016/12/when-ayn-rand-collected-social-security-medicare.html
I think it is essential for people to be able to learn and grow, and to abandon their cherished opinions and precepts. I would certainly not wish to be stuck with some of the things I found in my mind as I worked into my own way of thinking. Still, I think Ayn Rand influenced many people who bought into the neoliberal mindset: shrink the government as much as possible; allow the business sector to manage poverty to suit their needs for labor; allow capitalist enterprises to rule the roost.
I've been reading science fiction and speculative fiction for about 65 years, since I was ten. I carefully avoided reading Ayn Rand, long before I knew much about the subjects she wrote about. It was sheer instinct, or sheer luck, that I have never read her work. I only know bits and pieces, such as the alleged requirement that my Representative in Congress years ago, who became Speaker of the House, Mr Paul Ryan, required his staff to read Ayn Rand's work, thereby to align themselves more perfectly with the boss's thinking. Could be true.
Thank you, I read it. It's interesting her early education was principled in social pedagogy. She moved away from that. PBS News had a great article by Economics, Denise Cummins, in February 2016. I was trying to post the thread. I live in a internet desert.
She missed the point that our basic human need is to belong to our communities and one another. We need one another for our own survival. As she did in her last years on this planet. She also was an amphetamine addict for decades. Alan Greenspan didn't do this country any favors. Just another whore, hoarding wealth. The man loved a caste system.
According to some of us, Jesus was just a nice Jewish boy who reflected our values...
Doesn't the timing of the Alabama ruling seem peculiar? As if to draw attention away from tfg court defeats and right after we learned about Smirnoff being a cutout for Russian Intelligence officers, that has been feeding senior R's disinformation that could affect this coming election? Its just weird timing to me. Something is always afoot with R's.
I doubt it. The Alabama judges are on a mission from God. There is no schedule.
Perhaps. Sure seems like R’s are doing everything they can to turn off Women voters. Women who want control over their family planning, which has to be a majority in this country, ( I presume). If R’s judges keep this up, we win by an even bigger margin. Plus J6, Dobbs, TFG’s kissing Putin’s boots, lawsuits, rapist, fraudster. How has Donnie not just stroked out yet? How does he keep it up? It’s so dang crazy.
Trump is showing signs of crumbling. The feeding frenzy over his corpse will be interesting to watch. Or should I say horrifying.
James, just so long as he goes away one way or the other….hope he is not deified any more than he already is. I’d kinda like to see him in prison orange without access to bronzer, a hair dryer or hair spray…..he can hold rallies in the prison yard.
That would be beautiful!
It's those gold sneakers...
Theocracy is a form of tyranny. And tyranny is what we went to war against in 1776.
Once again, tyrants are at the gate.
https://www.timelesstimely.com/p/tyrants-at-the-gate
How astounding that we're on the brink of sliding so far back after such progress has been made. As always, thank you for the cogent and thoughtful analysis and historical context.
No, Scott -- they're not "at the gate."
They're inside our republic, trotting out Putin's active disinformation, serving the Kremlin's lies, working right here among us for their murderous oligarchs abroad, refusing to allow a vote in the House for weapons for Ukrainians dying for their homes, their democracy, ours.
Jim Jordan. James Comer. Lauren Boebert. Majorie Taylor Gazpacho. Tommy Tuberville. Nancy Mace. Elise Stefanik. Steve Scalise. Paul Gosar. Matt Gaetz. Tim Scott. Lindsey Graham. J. D. Vance. Ted Cruz. All educated in U.S. schools. All serving Putin and his campaigns to kill democracy.
Invasion of the body snatchers.
Mind snatchers!?
Agree, Phil, the call is coming from inside the house!
Sorry, Barbara, I left out the name of Speaker of the House Howdy Doody.
So many similarly bad, atrocious, laughable names I left out.
American schools can produce such massive illiteracy, dehumanization, cynicism?
But see, Scott, we are not faltering. The unfortunate thing is that there are people who have always believed in the lies. Take for instance, missionaries going to African nations to help “educate” the country’s people. The only reason is to encourage them to see “their” way of thinking. Relying on God or Jesus to help them find their pathway. And they do it in the most cunning of ways by being nice and kind, building their churches and schools, all on the premise that their religion is fully adopted. I am not saying there are some good intentions but like here in the US, it is the private schools that flourish while the public ones have to fight for every spent on each child attending. Religion is a barrier.
And let us remember Inquisitions and The Holocaust and other mass murders of non-Christians. Not only in America. Power in the name of god.
Let us also not forget Putin who rely's on the Church to legitimize his rampaging.
Definitely, Irenie!
Evil in the name of God. They had better hope that hell is not real.
And, Marlene, the Christian missionaries who spread anti-LBGTQ+ rhetoric there, influencing many current draconian laws: https://foreignpolicy.com/2023/03/19/africa-uganda-evangelicals-homophobia-antigay-bill/
Indeed, indoctrinating ignorance of humanism and the human condition in favor of yet another modernized form of Puritanism. A fine example of "The road to Hell is paved with good intentions".
Oh my yes! Aren’t they just precious?!! 🤬
Religion is a barrier, not a gate
Scott, the gate has been hacked