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My father is one. I have been speaking to him for 20 straight years. Almost all the truck drivers I work with fall in that group. Let’s face it, most of them are dummies in someway shape or form. A lot of them are white men who have inferiority complex is, maybe because of their lot in life, self-esteem issues, they’re not blessed with the type of gifts that you and I have become accustomed to. Gifts of access to privileges. Being educated, being articulate, and being part of the world community is a very very different Weltanschauung than struggling to gain money, privilege, resources, and status and standing. When you’re at the bottom of the heap, your male privilege and your white privilege might be the only thing you have, and you might be hanging onto it with everything you’ve got. Having somebody try to rip that away from you might be like losing two of your only advantages left in the world. You and I, Stuart, we have gifts. We have blessings. We have smarts. Be grateful. Be grateful that we don’t have to clutch on to social privileges that are going the way of the Dodo bird, becoming extinct.

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You’d have to be a genius to figure it out from NYT. Just drop yourself anywhere in America and start talking to white men with blue-collar jobs, or do a little bit of hunting, it won’t take much, in any snooty country club or retirement home. Republicans galore. Welcome to America, the divided country.

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I found out many of the people I worked with were Trump voters, true believers. It really shook my faith in the hearts of others.

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I have friends who are white collar, educated(?) trumpets...and in cities. It's not just rural...IMHO.

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Yes Susan, there's an entire large conversation here today about City/Rural. And someone else posted exactly as you did, about Republicans in blue cities. My response was (something like), "That would be my dad. We live in a blue county in California. He is member of a country club and now lives in a snooty Republican retirement home."

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I mean "blue districts" not "blue cities."

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I work in a law office and in a building that is 95% accountants, architects and attorneys in a downtown capital city and most everyone is a die hard Republican. Not a Drumpf fan but always vote red. After Biden won they stopped paying attention to the news. No one on my floor watched the inauguration, no one watched the riots, no one watches the impeachment news, no one knows who Eugene Goodman is, no one knows who MTG is or what she has been putting out in the world. There is a real head in the sand issue going on with choosing your own news and it does not just come from rural areas, or the uneducated or the poor or the "forgotten". It's really wild. When I tried to pull a couple co-workers over to my computer screen when I was watching the insurrection on 1/6 AS IT HAPPENED they both walked away and one said "everyone is crazy" and the other said"I'm with him, they are crazy on both sides". I can't stop shaking my head.

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Wow. Thank you Kimberley for sharing this perspective.

I had the odd thought, "Hmm, this must be how the rumor started that Antifa is responsible for Jan. 6. The people in denial of the truth, like these people in Kimberley's world, would just rather believe what they believe, that Trump supporters are innocent of any culpability."

The people you are describing are like my dad. Clueless. Seeing only what they want to see, not what's really there. These are the same people sending money to Tя☭mp which he then uses to feather his own nest.

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Yes, and if I try to throw a few facts in there about the election, the riots, the impeachment I start to sound like the conspiracy theorist. LOL

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No wonder you are here on HCR!!

This is one of those times that I would consider sharing my email. You are in hostile territory. You need assistance from the Resistance. It's like Hogan's Heroes. Are you safe?

;-)

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You're funny, Roland! Thanks! Finding HCR and all of you saved my year! I have no one in my immediate vicinity to discuss these topics with or to be happy with about how things are improving. I couldn't share my relief when Biden was sworn in with anyone in person. I had to call or text some out of state friends and one brother who is on my page. I did get to do a happy dance when some women down the hall who feel like me came in last week to get their mail (ugh, COVID) and we celebrated it being -45 outside.

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Minus 45 outside! Yeah Baby! You're a bit isolated, that's for sure. Keep getting the support and the outlet you need.

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Thanks, Roland :)

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Grateful every day, buddy! You betcha!

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We have super powers they don’t have. Even my dad. My dad is a millionaire. He got very lucky. But he grew up barely educated in Germany, at the bottom of his class in a farming community outside Munich. He emigrated to America, learned English in the US Army, and managed to succeed financially, and to have a family that’s doing well as well, even though he isn’t all that sharp. He is a diehard Republican, one of the ones with money. And he still believes completely in the old social order trust me. Like I said, self-esteem issues, inferiority complex. In his case, growing up in that era of Germany of course had an influence as well, very strong and lasting influence. I don’t think the social programming is quite as severe in America but it’s definitely there, take a look at the impact MeToo and George Floyd is having. Btw I’m rooting for BLM to get the Peace prize.

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We're not responsible for our parents, just fortunate to have them and love them if we can somtimes despite themselves! Mine was dead to me as of the age of 7. He died unlamented by anyone in 2012.

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Did your father have any family in Philadelphia PA? My last name was Attewell for 25 years. It is a very unusual name in the US

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Indeed quite rare! Two of my father's aunts went to Boston before the WW1 and my great grandfather wandered frequently over on your side of the Atlantic at the end of 19thC. We only know that at one point he was in the Mounties and he had 5 daughters in England! The Scottish side of my story is less well documented. A cousin did a lot of work on his side and found many cousines in different parts of Canada and the US. I have one of his newsletters in Paris...but now with me at present! Anything is possible

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One of my daughters theorizes that an ancestor lived "at the well".

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True, as in the surname Dupuis or Aupuis in French. My family also came across a Dutch mercenary clan crossing with William of Normandy in 1066 called Atte Velle and who were accorded land in S. Yorkshire around Doncaster (Doomsday Book) and today you'll now find a lot of Attewells in the local graveyards.

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The statute of limitations for invasion and conquest has expired.

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Surnames as standard is a recent phenomenon historically. Dolores At The Dolores At the Well, in olden days, distinguishes her from the other Doloreses in the area. Stuart At-the-Well distinguishes you from Stuart Little, that shorter guy of same name, and Stuart Blacksmith, the burly guy whose profession is obvious. Attewell is the sibling of Atwater and Atwood. Obviously if there is a line of Attewells descended from a Dutch ancestor, that's entirely different, unless Atte Velle means the same thing in Dutch. After all, Dutch is a variant of Deutsch, and both German and English have common roots.

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Yes, absolutely. Surnames as standard is a recent phenomenon historically. Dolores At The Well, in olden days, distinguishes you from the other Doloreses in the area. Stuart At-the-Well distinguishes him from Stuart Little, that shorter Stuart, and Stuart Blacksmith, the burly guy whose profession is obvious. Attewell is the sibling of Atwater and Atwood.

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And at 6ft 6in i really stand out at the well

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Similar father and brothers story. Deep insecurities. Disappointments. Fears. And all Republicans who voted for Trump. Rooting for BLM to receive Nobel Peace Prize, too. ❤️🤍💙

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The Black Lives Matter movement is so much larger than the original BLM organization. Which has been nominated for the Nobel Prize?

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That could be a significant issue given the size of NPP awards, currently around $1 million USD. Hopefully the Committee makes its choice clear and avoids litigation among different BLM groups.

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I agree, the movement is so much larger. However, I suppose this member of Norwegian Congress is considering that the organization took the movement on its back. That's my guess.

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Oh, wow, father *and* brothers. Fortunately my sisters are both non-Republicans. I don't know what I would do. I would barely speak with them. This year I realized how grateful I am that this Tя☭mp moment-in-history didn't estrange me from my sisters.

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BLM Yes!!!

Sadly, the case for them may be bolstered by yet another outrageous police murder which could occur any time. It is inevitable, and if next summer has any resemblance to 2020, the Committee won't need archived video to recall why Black Lives Matter.

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Just the other day in a neighboring city, police handcuffed and pepper sprayed a 9 year old girl. She was in an extremely agitated state but even young nurses in psychiatric EDs are trained to take a person down safely without harming them.

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Yes, 4 male police officers with the 9 year old girl already in the back of a squad car and it required pepper spray to subdue her? Really? Well over the line of reasonable police behavior and completely unjustified. I have said this so many times I feel it is tattooed on my body. Train for procedures and policies, but first hire for character. No amount of training can compensate for ignoring character in the hiring process.

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Bruce, have you seen the video of the full incident? Would be curious to see what part of their character is in question in responding to the event.

I know three police officers are under suspension while an investigation is done.

https://www.democratandchronicle.com/story/news/2021/02/01/9-year-old-girl-pepper-sprayed-rochester-ny-live-updates-what-we-know-now/4336363001/

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I need to explain. My best friend and lifelong from childhood is a lifelong member of the law enforcement community and now is an adjunct professor at the John Jay College of Criminal Law. He testifies frequently as an expert witness at cases involving the conduct of law enforcement professionals in various circumstances for both sides of cases. The comment about hiring for character is one I have learned from listening to him over, and over, and over. I believe strongly it applies to this and many other cases as well. 4 adult male police officers should have had many other ways to control a young girl already in a squad car without resorting to the use of pepper spray. That is not a training, procedure, or policy issue. It is a result of character flaws. Sorry if you disagree, but it is a fact.

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Thank you, everyone. I'm ex-LE too, kind of (a couple years in the 20C). All four officers display real character deficiencies. In most situations most adults will speak calmly to a child without laying hands, but not one of them could do it. Instead she's an enemy combatant to them. Unconscionable. How did we come to have American kids attacked as enemy combatants? Of course race is paramount, but as last summer showed, not even Euro Americans are safe if they challenge authority.

Unfortunately too many police align comfortably with the dark forces menacing America and unleashed against Congress on Jan 6. Why did dozens of them try to overthrow the US government? Every officer should be required to publicly answer that question, and no, "I don't know" or "a few bad apples" are not acceptable.

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My friend and I discussed this and he agrees, after both of us watching the video carefully and listening to the available information.

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Bruce, thanks for the insights. It's not that I disagree. We do need good people of upstanding character to serve in this vital role. And, I know, that there are plenty of bullies, power-mongers, etc. in uniform. They needed to be weeded out for sure. Thanks for taking the time to watch the video, discussing it with your friend, and sharing your insights.

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That was horrible. When I was a teacher in a special ed school, we had that same training. There is no excuse for so many police officers being addicted to violence and so ready to inflict it.

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Agreed (with both you and Bruce). It is culture. Culture trumps training, trumps strategy -- every day of the week. There must be someone with leadership skills who can transform the police depts. Another issue I think is very important -- I believe that all cases of brutality by police should be publicized and protested-- particularly those that lead to death of a suspect.

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And there needs to be an end to Internal Affairs divisions handling police overstepping their remit. That is tantamount to asking all of us to be responsible for our own health care in cases where surgery we cannot self-administer or palliative measures we cannot self-prescribe for are needed.

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Good analogy. I have no plans to remove my own appendix.

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Have you seen the body cam video of the incident? When I watch the national media, we only get the worst part of it. Out of curiosity, how would those young nurses, or trained professionals, handle this? Here's a link to the Local newspaper and the videos.

https://www.democratandchronicle.com/story/news/2021/02/01/9-year-old-girl-pepper-sprayed-rochester-ny-live-updates-what-we-know-now/4336363001/

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Honestly, a film of healthcare professionals doing a takedown would probably be disturbing. If the patient could not regain control and continued to be combative, there are restraints that are initiated which are removed as soon as possible but every effort is made to prevent their use. But generally there are about 4-6 people who will be involved in that intervention. Of course, there is not yelling, there is someone talking slowly and calmly throughout and it is just physical restraining to prevent harm to self and others. I never trained to do it myself because I did not consider myself confrontational enough faced with an agitated individual. However, in my work I have endeavored to relieve anxiety of alert agitated people and help them to calm down by calling their family for them, giving them space and time etc.

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First of all, physically controlling a child in distress is a drastic measure, only to be used when necessary either to prevent physical harm and/or to assist a child in regaining control of themselves. Based on the news reports, these police officers treated a nine year old girl begging for her father as an enemy combatant instead of a small human being in need of help. Just having all those adults in the room would have prevented this child from doing any harm. The police could have stayed there with her, trying to talk her into calm, until a mental health professional could arrive. If the child is asking for her father, for example, they could try to contact him. They could ask her to talk about him…

Second, in answer to your question: the training I received, which I repeat was only to be used in extreme situations, was to use 6 adults to pin a child in place so that they would have enough difference in force to act gently. One adult would be talking, making it clear that the pin was only until the child could control themself, releasing one limb at a time as soon as the child could do so. There is nothing in the news reports that suggests anything like that was needed.

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Joan, thanks for the info. I watched the body cam videos and wondered how they should have done it.

Personally, I feel the police are often put into some "no win" situations and aren't always trained for them. I like the Eugene, OR model of having trained social workers and nurses/doctors respond to these type of calls with police backup only when necessary.

Again, thanks for educating me on this.

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You are welcome. I agree with you. The city of Rochester agrees with you, and only sent police because their trained people were busy elsewhere. That is going to happen, so the police need better training. But it's more than that. It's partly the militarization of the police in general. It's partly system racism. It's partly systemic social hostility to anyone snap-categorized as 'other'.

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Thanks for sound comments, Joan. There are two kinds of training, first being formal or Academy Training. Then there's what I call the Real Training that comes in the early days on the job. It's socialization into the culture of the force (note the irony of the name), and is a notorious example of institutional continuity. Worse, when officers come from LE families they imbibe it from childhood. Bullies reproducing bullies. I got the Real Training to start two brief years in a county sheriff's office. It was like an education in immorality. Not sure what the solution is, but at least the problem is clear enough.

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I feel like they should have probably called an ambulance and treated her as a person who needed medical intervention instead of as a criminal.

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Me too! BLM!

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I just read that Walesa nominated Navalny for the peace prize.

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Awesome! So many deserving, so few Peace Prizes to go around. Navalny belongs in the Kremlin. He deserves that Peace Prize now, and later when he gets there, he deserves it again.

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😁🙏🙏

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