Thank you Heather. I am so glad you wrote about this. I have a life long friend who is a trump supporter.. she and her 90+ year old Mother, who I’ve known since I was 14... for 44 years... both called me a liar when I tried to explain all this to them. They called me a liar when I told them thd Keystone Pipeline was fully functional. The…
Thank you Heather. I am so glad you wrote about this. I have a life long friend who is a trump supporter.. she and her 90+ year old Mother, who I’ve known since I was 14... for 44 years... both called me a liar when I tried to explain all this to them. They called me a liar when I told them thd Keystone Pipeline was fully functional. They called me a liar when I explained it was an extension to the Keystone that was halted. They called me a liar when I pointed out DAP was endangering sacred indigenous land and both it and the extension (XL) were at risk for contaminating watershed as well. It’s pretty much destroyed our relationship. I appreciate your documenting all of this, as when I attempted to show them the pipeline maps and documentation, they claimed it was all made up leftist propaganda. Thank you!
Since my husband has Lakota ancestry, Sans Arc band, his relatives have made us aware of all the problems, particularly in South Dakota. All this activity and the threat it presents does not only contribute to climate change, but also may ruin the aquifer which many, including white ranchers rely on. Right now one of his cousins who has a large acreage ranch on the Pine Ridge is worried about the lack of rain and snow, so there's that too. Finally, the total lack of respect for sacred sites is a travesty, no matter where they are located.
All you say is true. I'd like to add that while pipelines are necessary for a little bit longer as we transition to a lesser dependence on oil, but ignoring promises and treaties and riding roughshod over indigenous people's rights is inexcusable and tragically unnecessary.
The XL pipeline should've been designed with a longer or different route.
No, of course we don't "need" to do so. It's just economically more efficient because there's a concentration of refining capacity around Houston that can efficiently handle the specific chemistry of the Canadian Alberta tar sands.
Jerry, your argument stuns me. You have really bought into the oil companies' mindset, haven't you? You talk of "efficiency" and routing pipelines as if they were givens and as if other people here had no idea how that works. For many of us, those were the starting points. In Vermont, we were fed those same arguments about a natural gas pipeline (by company within same holding company as the midwest pipelines, about costs and about the "efficiency" argument, including the supposed "transition" argument. We did the research and proved the companies were lying. Not merely wrong. Lying. Though the corporations managed to stave off the challenges for a while, time proved us right. ULtimately we won, but not before a lot of damage was done and people's lives upended.
The pipelines are dangerous no matter where they are put. And they are costly no matter where they are built: every single one has huge cost overruns. I've been in the tar sands and in the fracking fields. They are ugly, and they are toxic, in addition to being disruptive (understatement) to the communities they are near.
Ultimately, their product is not needed. These pipelines are not "interim solutions". We already have the technology to completely replace the oil. It is irrational to ship (by any means) toxic sludge from Canada to Texas for refining - except for the corporations who buy off politicians so they can keep alive their cash cow.
What if Texas began to willingly transform from allowing itself to be economically dependent on a technology that is dirty, affects human health, destroys ecosystems both directly and indirectly? What if Texas took advantage of the other sources of energy it has access to (wind and solar, for instance) and began to built a multi-state grid that benefited all Texans and not just a few? That's the real transition: recognizing the historical reality of how oil companies do things, and choosing to shift away from being complicit.
Texas's disaster wasn't the storm. Texas's disaster was its own decision to ignore the needs of its people, and put the interests of big corporations above their responsibility to both human beings and the environment.
Something maybe for you to think about. I have friends in Texas. They get it.
I wasn't arguing, only repeating the oil companies' logic. I intimately understand their approach because I worked in that industry. That doesn't mean I agreed with everything.
However, you keep wanting to blame oil companies for the public's demand (thirst) for oil. To meet that demand, pipelines are necessary. Yes they could be safer as a group, but it's not a given that a given pipeline is unsafe. It IS a given that pipelines are a safer means of transport than rail. For the time bring, transport is necessary.
I agree we need to accelerate transition to renewable and Texas could lead there (Houston is working to create a green energy tech hub). But demand is where the challenge lies. That is a global issue, and even if the transition to green goes as fast as possible, global demand for oil and gas will continue to rise for a couple of decades or more.
Note that I'm not trying to protect oil and pipeline companies (they're often separate). Sheer scale of human demand for energy will fo that.
If I am remembering correctly, it was supposed to go on a different route, but white folks objected, so... I had a unpleasant encounter with a Lakota this last week, and I do understand his anger. He accused me of all sorts of things including racism which is not one of my faults. We were on a thread of one of my husband's Lakota relatives who thankfully defended me and blocked him. I don't know what he does about his first name which sounds English or his surname which sounds Scotch-Irish. One of the things I told him is that I could write a book on how this country was built on slavery, genocide, and stolen land. I personally am mindful of the latter and also the sacredness of the earth. I have gardened for over 50 years with that in mind and have gratitude for what I am able to harvest and often share with others.
What a difference with the "respect" for other religions, isnt it? But indigenous people - their ways and religions are looked down upon & ignored. Of course, the larger church organizations produce a great deal of money - for whatever purpose! And money seems to be what matters.
This has been part of the European mantra for centuries. We are going to redeem these "savages" and save them. That is part of the novel Things Fall Apart which takes place in Nigeria as missionaries arrive. My time in the Peace Corps was work in a Irish Catholic run boys' school. The boys were Catholics at school and also retained their own beliefs as well. There was lots of "juju"around including certain items put next to rice fields. Another good novel about this is The Poisonwood Bible where what the missionaries thought was happening was quite different in the eyes of the Africans. I did laugh. Just this week my husband was reading something which said the Catholic Church in West Africa supported itself through the slave trade.
Not a surprise. Its downright amazing how really lousy the "redeeming & saving" was & still is to this day. The Catholic Church "organization" was responsible for so much abuse & cruelty. And really never has accepted the blame they deserve. And its not only them. Strange how religion - evangelical & otherwise - seems to believe that they & only they (familiar?) can save these "poor" people. I've heard of the Poisonwood Bible - never read it - I'll look for it, Michele - thanks.
I read a lot of history and I am amazed at what cruelty we inflict on each other for no really good reasons. You might also try At Play in the Fields of the Lord which takes place in South America. I did laugh at parts of that too. The person I find most grounded among my friends is a devout Christian who walks, but doesn't talk. I feel serene just being around her. So it possible to be a person of faith and not destroy everything in sight and promote hatred. I also like the writing of Marilynne Robinson who is also a Christian and writes excellent fiction and nonfiction.
I admit I dont read a lot of non-fiction - the truth part of what mankind does is usually much much worse than fiction! Thanks for titles to ask for at the library - I appreciate it.
I give myself a break with fiction, usually mysteries, because I can only take so much of the true stuff on certain topics. I do love history, so i read a lot of that. I hope you enjoy those titles.
I just found a new author - Elizabeth Gunn - shes got a series about woman who is a police officer - I've read 3 of them - there are several more. I have a long list of authors - J A Jance, Michael Connelly are a couple. Maybe you already are familiar with them.
Rupert is good at blaming others for what he is doing. No need to ask if they watch Fox. The lies and spin have fried the brains of half our population. Sort of like the destruction of the pipeline, only worse.
Thank you Heather. I am so glad you wrote about this. I have a life long friend who is a trump supporter.. she and her 90+ year old Mother, who I’ve known since I was 14... for 44 years... both called me a liar when I tried to explain all this to them. They called me a liar when I told them thd Keystone Pipeline was fully functional. They called me a liar when I explained it was an extension to the Keystone that was halted. They called me a liar when I pointed out DAP was endangering sacred indigenous land and both it and the extension (XL) were at risk for contaminating watershed as well. It’s pretty much destroyed our relationship. I appreciate your documenting all of this, as when I attempted to show them the pipeline maps and documentation, they claimed it was all made up leftist propaganda. Thank you!
Since my husband has Lakota ancestry, Sans Arc band, his relatives have made us aware of all the problems, particularly in South Dakota. All this activity and the threat it presents does not only contribute to climate change, but also may ruin the aquifer which many, including white ranchers rely on. Right now one of his cousins who has a large acreage ranch on the Pine Ridge is worried about the lack of rain and snow, so there's that too. Finally, the total lack of respect for sacred sites is a travesty, no matter where they are located.
All you say is true. I'd like to add that while pipelines are necessary for a little bit longer as we transition to a lesser dependence on oil, but ignoring promises and treaties and riding roughshod over indigenous people's rights is inexcusable and tragically unnecessary.
The XL pipeline should've been designed with a longer or different route.
So what else is new? We’ve been trampling on indigenous people since we arrived!
We really need to be exporting oil from our Gulf coast made from Canadian tar sand? I think that’s ludicrous.
Exactly the truth.
No, of course we don't "need" to do so. It's just economically more efficient because there's a concentration of refining capacity around Houston that can efficiently handle the specific chemistry of the Canadian Alberta tar sands.
Jerry, your argument stuns me. You have really bought into the oil companies' mindset, haven't you? You talk of "efficiency" and routing pipelines as if they were givens and as if other people here had no idea how that works. For many of us, those were the starting points. In Vermont, we were fed those same arguments about a natural gas pipeline (by company within same holding company as the midwest pipelines, about costs and about the "efficiency" argument, including the supposed "transition" argument. We did the research and proved the companies were lying. Not merely wrong. Lying. Though the corporations managed to stave off the challenges for a while, time proved us right. ULtimately we won, but not before a lot of damage was done and people's lives upended.
The pipelines are dangerous no matter where they are put. And they are costly no matter where they are built: every single one has huge cost overruns. I've been in the tar sands and in the fracking fields. They are ugly, and they are toxic, in addition to being disruptive (understatement) to the communities they are near.
Ultimately, their product is not needed. These pipelines are not "interim solutions". We already have the technology to completely replace the oil. It is irrational to ship (by any means) toxic sludge from Canada to Texas for refining - except for the corporations who buy off politicians so they can keep alive their cash cow.
What if Texas began to willingly transform from allowing itself to be economically dependent on a technology that is dirty, affects human health, destroys ecosystems both directly and indirectly? What if Texas took advantage of the other sources of energy it has access to (wind and solar, for instance) and began to built a multi-state grid that benefited all Texans and not just a few? That's the real transition: recognizing the historical reality of how oil companies do things, and choosing to shift away from being complicit.
Texas's disaster wasn't the storm. Texas's disaster was its own decision to ignore the needs of its people, and put the interests of big corporations above their responsibility to both human beings and the environment.
Something maybe for you to think about. I have friends in Texas. They get it.
“we already have the technology to replace oil”
Oil conversion to CO2 by combustion has only one peer where energy is relevant.
Nuclear.
Mike, really? I thought you were more cognizant than that.
I wasn't arguing, only repeating the oil companies' logic. I intimately understand their approach because I worked in that industry. That doesn't mean I agreed with everything.
However, you keep wanting to blame oil companies for the public's demand (thirst) for oil. To meet that demand, pipelines are necessary. Yes they could be safer as a group, but it's not a given that a given pipeline is unsafe. It IS a given that pipelines are a safer means of transport than rail. For the time bring, transport is necessary.
I agree we need to accelerate transition to renewable and Texas could lead there (Houston is working to create a green energy tech hub). But demand is where the challenge lies. That is a global issue, and even if the transition to green goes as fast as possible, global demand for oil and gas will continue to rise for a couple of decades or more.
Note that I'm not trying to protect oil and pipeline companies (they're often separate). Sheer scale of human demand for energy will fo that.
Yes it is and most people have no idea about that.
If I am remembering correctly, it was supposed to go on a different route, but white folks objected, so... I had a unpleasant encounter with a Lakota this last week, and I do understand his anger. He accused me of all sorts of things including racism which is not one of my faults. We were on a thread of one of my husband's Lakota relatives who thankfully defended me and blocked him. I don't know what he does about his first name which sounds English or his surname which sounds Scotch-Irish. One of the things I told him is that I could write a book on how this country was built on slavery, genocide, and stolen land. I personally am mindful of the latter and also the sacredness of the earth. I have gardened for over 50 years with that in mind and have gratitude for what I am able to harvest and often share with others.
What a difference with the "respect" for other religions, isnt it? But indigenous people - their ways and religions are looked down upon & ignored. Of course, the larger church organizations produce a great deal of money - for whatever purpose! And money seems to be what matters.
This has been part of the European mantra for centuries. We are going to redeem these "savages" and save them. That is part of the novel Things Fall Apart which takes place in Nigeria as missionaries arrive. My time in the Peace Corps was work in a Irish Catholic run boys' school. The boys were Catholics at school and also retained their own beliefs as well. There was lots of "juju"around including certain items put next to rice fields. Another good novel about this is The Poisonwood Bible where what the missionaries thought was happening was quite different in the eyes of the Africans. I did laugh. Just this week my husband was reading something which said the Catholic Church in West Africa supported itself through the slave trade.
Not a surprise. Its downright amazing how really lousy the "redeeming & saving" was & still is to this day. The Catholic Church "organization" was responsible for so much abuse & cruelty. And really never has accepted the blame they deserve. And its not only them. Strange how religion - evangelical & otherwise - seems to believe that they & only they (familiar?) can save these "poor" people. I've heard of the Poisonwood Bible - never read it - I'll look for it, Michele - thanks.
I read a lot of history and I am amazed at what cruelty we inflict on each other for no really good reasons. You might also try At Play in the Fields of the Lord which takes place in South America. I did laugh at parts of that too. The person I find most grounded among my friends is a devout Christian who walks, but doesn't talk. I feel serene just being around her. So it possible to be a person of faith and not destroy everything in sight and promote hatred. I also like the writing of Marilynne Robinson who is also a Christian and writes excellent fiction and nonfiction.
I admit I dont read a lot of non-fiction - the truth part of what mankind does is usually much much worse than fiction! Thanks for titles to ask for at the library - I appreciate it.
I give myself a break with fiction, usually mysteries, because I can only take so much of the true stuff on certain topics. I do love history, so i read a lot of that. I hope you enjoy those titles.
My usual fiction is mysteries. Thanks again
If you have time, I would appreciate a couple recommendations of mysteries you favor.
I just found a new author - Elizabeth Gunn - shes got a series about woman who is a police officer - I've read 3 of them - there are several more. I have a long list of authors - J A Jance, Michael Connelly are a couple. Maybe you already are familiar with them.
Nice. “Supported itself with the slave trade”.
Quite disgusting.
Yes, that was new to me. But after reading a lot of history, nothing much surprises me.
I know people and politicians who are
Just like your friend. It is sad, but it is also so damaging.
Thanks for your perseverance. Very hard.
Rupert is good at blaming others for what he is doing. No need to ask if they watch Fox. The lies and spin have fried the brains of half our population. Sort of like the destruction of the pipeline, only worse.
It often occurs to me that the favored Trumpist response to facts they don’t like reduces their argument to Grade School Triumph; “nuh uh”