The Democrats are so blindly addicted to the institutions of this Democracy they will not raise one hand to stop someone from destroying those very institutions. And the Republicans know this. The irony is sickening.
No you are wrong here. The institutions of democracy are the ones that protect us. To quote Franklin, if we sacrifice a little freedom for security, we will have neither freedom nor security. Trump was legally elected. We can all hate that but it is not right to refuse to abide by the election. That is why I focus not on trying to keep him out but in looking for ways to preempt the destruction he can inflict. That is why I keep on advocating for Biden to issue a blanket pardon or amnesty if you wish of all Americans. It would tie Trump's hands legally and I think it would take most of his term to litigate it (and I think he would lose).
Agreed, Jon. I have grieved the loss by Vice President Harris. Nevertheless, Trump won the election. Additionally, the Democrats have repaired the many of the guard-rails. They need to make sure people vote in 2026.
MAGAts say he was legally elected. No one capable of thinking believes that. Until a forensic audit is conducted of the voting in swing states there will always be doubt.
Why did Harris fold like a cheap card table? It took 4 days to declare a winner in 2020 and 4 hours in 2024? Give me a break
In 2020, the states in question had all gone for Trump in 2016 and the vote was very close in all those states. The news media held off calling enough of those states until four days after the election. This year most of those states had given Trump a lead late in the evening of election day.
As for your rather silly view about forensic audits, I don't believe that has ever happened in a presidential election and I doubt it would ever happen. Each state is responsible for their own vote certification. To have all seven swing states go for Trump makes it virtually impossible to believe that this election was somehow "thrown".
You are welcome to your delusion but it is pretty clear where the responsibility for this loss by Harris lies: with the 8 or so million votes who voted for Biden in 2020 and then decided to stay home this year and not vote.
Trump didn't win this election. We lost it on our own.
Who shares this view? People here? We are all basically irrelevant in the scheme of actual efforts as all we can do is voice our opinions. Other than a few commentators I have seen no one who suggests that somehow Trump actually managed to create a fraudulent election. Like 2020 which was clearly NOT "stolen", I see zero evidence that this one was either, other than the same argument that Trump used in 2020. I,e, we don't like the result.
I apologize for the "silly" reference it was uncalled for and written when I was too tired (poor excuse and again I apologize). I do think your belief that the election was stolen is unsupported by any evidence. And without such evidence I can't see any justification for a forensic audit.
I don't think so. But I could be wrong. You seemed to be arguing that we aren't willing to take extra legal actions to protect our democracy. I think we sacrifice democracy if we do that. And there are ways to fight back which do not require giving up on our institutions. You may disagree but I think it is an important point. Happy to learn more from you if I am mistaken.
The challenge I have come across is that the M.A.G.A.s, including about half of my relatives, ARE educated, ARE intelligent, and, in my experience, ARE POLITE. They seem to make one, two, or all three of the following points. ЁЯдФ
1st, Trump will not succeed in becoming a dictator nor has he an intention of becoming one. We shall see. ЁЯШ╡
2nd, that career politicians and redundant bureaucrats have corroded the republic and the concept of public; they welcome new and younger bloods like Senator Vance. I have sympathy there; Trump, however, is NOT the solution. ЁЯШ│
3rd, and most troubling, is that Trump's victory does NOT represent M.A.G.A. voters giving up on the republican experiment, but their pained belief that the republican experiment has given up on them. ЁЯШв
If anything, the voters giving up on democracy include those who failed to show up to vote for Vice President Harris and Governor Walz, thus handing the presidency to Trump. ЁЯдм
Yes, well we agree on that for sure, particularly your last points. I dunno, maybe we ARE doomed but I plan to go down fighting at least metaphorically (I'm to damned old to use a gun!)
So Trump et al are just going to walk into the White House, the Agencies, without proper clearance. No consequences for defiance of the law?
Yes, he is Frank. Know why?
The Democrats are so blindly addicted to the institutions of this Democracy they will not raise one hand to stop someone from destroying those very institutions. And the Republicans know this. The irony is sickening.
No you are wrong here. The institutions of democracy are the ones that protect us. To quote Franklin, if we sacrifice a little freedom for security, we will have neither freedom nor security. Trump was legally elected. We can all hate that but it is not right to refuse to abide by the election. That is why I focus not on trying to keep him out but in looking for ways to preempt the destruction he can inflict. That is why I keep on advocating for Biden to issue a blanket pardon or amnesty if you wish of all Americans. It would tie Trump's hands legally and I think it would take most of his term to litigate it (and I think he would lose).
Agreed, Jon. I have grieved the loss by Vice President Harris. Nevertheless, Trump won the election. Additionally, the Democrats have repaired the many of the guard-rails. They need to make sure people vote in 2026.
Trump was legally elected.
We dont know that until a forensic audit is done
Elon Musk stole it.
Not clear what that means. The only audit required that i know of is the counting of the electoral votes by the congress.
MAGAts say he was legally elected. No one capable of thinking believes that. Until a forensic audit is conducted of the voting in swing states there will always be doubt.
Why did Harris fold like a cheap card table? It took 4 days to declare a winner in 2020 and 4 hours in 2024? Give me a break
In 2020, the states in question had all gone for Trump in 2016 and the vote was very close in all those states. The news media held off calling enough of those states until four days after the election. This year most of those states had given Trump a lead late in the evening of election day.
As for your rather silly view about forensic audits, I don't believe that has ever happened in a presidential election and I doubt it would ever happen. Each state is responsible for their own vote certification. To have all seven swing states go for Trump makes it virtually impossible to believe that this election was somehow "thrown".
You are welcome to your delusion but it is pretty clear where the responsibility for this loss by Harris lies: with the 8 or so million votes who voted for Biden in 2020 and then decided to stay home this year and not vote.
Trump didn't win this election. We lost it on our own.
My silly view seems to be shared by hundreds of others, oh smug one.
Who shares this view? People here? We are all basically irrelevant in the scheme of actual efforts as all we can do is voice our opinions. Other than a few commentators I have seen no one who suggests that somehow Trump actually managed to create a fraudulent election. Like 2020 which was clearly NOT "stolen", I see zero evidence that this one was either, other than the same argument that Trump used in 2020. I,e, we don't like the result.
I apologize for the "silly" reference it was uncalled for and written when I was too tired (poor excuse and again I apologize). I do think your belief that the election was stolen is unsupported by any evidence. And without such evidence I can't see any justification for a forensic audit.
I see comments on so many substack columns, on media that allow comments. Hundreds of them. What do you consider evidence?
You missed my larger point by a mile.
I don't think so. But I could be wrong. You seemed to be arguing that we aren't willing to take extra legal actions to protect our democracy. I think we sacrifice democracy if we do that. And there are ways to fight back which do not require giving up on our institutions. You may disagree but I think it is an important point. Happy to learn more from you if I am mistaken.
The challenge I have come across is that the M.A.G.A.s, including about half of my relatives, ARE educated, ARE intelligent, and, in my experience, ARE POLITE. They seem to make one, two, or all three of the following points. ЁЯдФ
1st, Trump will not succeed in becoming a dictator nor has he an intention of becoming one. We shall see. ЁЯШ╡
2nd, that career politicians and redundant bureaucrats have corroded the republic and the concept of public; they welcome new and younger bloods like Senator Vance. I have sympathy there; Trump, however, is NOT the solution. ЁЯШ│
3rd, and most troubling, is that Trump's victory does NOT represent M.A.G.A. voters giving up on the republican experiment, but their pained belief that the republican experiment has given up on them. ЁЯШв
If anything, the voters giving up on democracy include those who failed to show up to vote for Vice President Harris and Governor Walz, thus handing the presidency to Trump. ЁЯдм
Yes, well we agree on that for sure, particularly your last points. I dunno, maybe we ARE doomed but I plan to go down fighting at least metaphorically (I'm to damned old to use a gun!)
We may be on opposite sides of the political divide but we will be on the same side of the barricades, brother. ЁЯдЭтЪЦя╕ПтЬМЁЯП╜
And he will lie when he agrees to тАЬprotect and defendтАЭ the Constitution.
So, from the Guardian.... https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/nov/26/trump-transition-team-fbi-security-clearances-background-checks
UGGGGly.
I donтАЩt think so.
The Republicans know Biden would rather go off to Africa and play Presidential than stay home and get his institutionalist hands dirty.
???
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/12/02/world/africa/biden-africa-trip-angola-cape-verde.html#:~:text=Biden%20Opens%20the%20Only%20Trip%20of%20His%20Presidency%20to%20Sub%2DSaharan%20Africa
Biden Opens the Only Trip of His Presidency to Sub-Saharan Africa