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Sara Toye's avatar

Hooray for the Arkansas parents suing the state over the law against wearing masks! May many other parents in other states follow suit.

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Ted's avatar

It’s the right thing to do. But it’s too late to stop the explosive spread of delta in these states. Republicans have indeed sabotaged the school year, public health, and economies. They know it. They will blame Biden for the coming shutdown, and the chaos they have themselves created.

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dotsieradzki's avatar

Isn't that their playbook, gum up the works then blame the other guy?

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Cathy Mc. (MO)'s avatar

It has worked for them before (so they think) and is the flip side of voting against bills, then claiming credit for the benefits brought to American People.

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Christi McG (IL)'s avatar

And keep their constituents ignorant. Perfect way is to kill, disable, financially ruin, and have large gaps in learning. This is the start of two years of spotty instruction.

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Lanita Grice (WA, the state)'s avatar

I have a Chinese friend who was a student during the Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution. During the years when schoolchildren should be developing the literacy, numeracy, and focus they will need as adults, she and her classmates were marching and singing and attacking the Four Olds (Old Ideas, Old Culture, Old Habits, and Old Customs). Although she later became a successful clothing designer and her daughter owns a clothing factory in China, she admits that she never learned to study anything that was not related to art and design. After 8 years in the US, her poor English is a barrier to understanding this country and our laws, she has dropped out of more than one English language program because she doesn't know how to keep her attention on study, and she often feels helpless because of those lost years of mental focus.

I wonder if the continued ability of the authoritarian government in China to hold its place among people of her generation is in some ways due to those lost years of education. Are we facing a similar future for the children who are now being denied access to tools they will need as adults to make informed decisions, get decent jobs, become voters for their own interests? The requiring of masks and/or vaccination is a no-brainer - one that is being rejected for purely political gain.

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Wendy Raksin's avatar

As a retired teacher, who taught school for 34 years, I can say with confidence that the children will catch up. There is no commandment from God that says children must learn multiplication in the third grade. If they don't learn it until 4th or 5th they will still master it.

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Wendy Raksin's avatar

If you notice, it is not teachers who are panicking about students being behind. It is politicians and newscasters. The children will catch up and probably during the same year. Teachers know how to remediate children who are behind.Some time will have to be spent on readqjusting and socializing children to school. I fear that will be ignored in trying to catch children up. Just as we are suffering from PTSD, so are the children. We have to address their mental health as well.

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Gail (Chicago)'s avatar

Our high school just emailed their "Learning Renewal Plan" which includes a new "block" schedule to allow for staggered start/dismissal times as well as a shorter school day. Mental Health is one of the key points of the new plan. I am feeling more confident about the school year. The shorter day will be life changing for my younger daughter.

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Christi McG (IL)'s avatar

Except that mist schools are rigid in curriculum. Intro to multiplication and division in third. More focus on them in 4th, and then teachers complain in 5th because they might not know them.

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BeckyP's avatar

Thanks for telling about your Chinese friend. I hope she will persevere. Her story reminds me of a book I read recently, "The Girl With Seven Names", by Hyeonseo Lee, which is about Hyeoseo's harrowing upbringing in and escape from North Korea. She was smart and lucky, but I imagine she was one of very few.

Education is so critically important to being an informed citizen. Now more than ever. I do worry about the children, especially the ones with ignorant or absent parents. They are so fragile and so easily lost.

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Alan Muller's avatar

Interesting. Of the Chinese people I've known, who were of an age to have been subjected to the Cultural Revolution, many were clearly traumatized by the experience. But authoritarian politicians seem to have a power of their own--Putin, trump, various other Fascists. I am doubtful that a year of curtailed schooling dooms kids to lifelong intellectual impairment.

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Christy's avatar

More likely that the trauma causes difficulty with focus and attention

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Ted's avatar

Was it 1896? That the conservatives sabotaged the economy to ruin the incoming presidency of?

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Shaf's avatar

Republicans will blame President Biden and it will work. That's what I find most infuriating. These governors didn't come to power by themselves. A majority in southern states voted for them. I feel bad for the liberals who have to pay the price.

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Cynthia O'Connor's avatar

Yes, and that REALLY p*sses me off! grrrr

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Ted's avatar

Me too. And it’s too late to do anything. A shutdown/ shelter in place mask order is necessary in the south and Las Vegas. JnJ shots needs 2 weeks. MRNA shots 39 days plus two weeks. There is so much risk in the south right now. This will be the biggest crisis ever for the South. Exponential growth of disease Is now inevitable. It is going to be a season of suffering for the southern states first.

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Cynthia O'Connor's avatar

couldn't happen to a nicer group of people...do you remember the Mayor of Las Vegas when the whole thing started? https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2020/04/22/las-vegas-mayor-carolyn-goodman-reopen-coronavirus-entire-interview-anderson-cooper-sot-nr-vpx.cnn

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Lanita Grice (WA, the state)'s avatar

Wow. Her ability to avoid answering while making it seem that the problem is Cooper's understanding is equal to what's her name under the former guy in the White House. (I've blocked her name, intentionally (?), but she has blonde hair, is very, very thin, and her husband is a big anti-T**** pundit.)

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Gail (Chicago)'s avatar

Oh her....

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Elizabeth M. (Massachusetts)'s avatar

Loved those Arkansas parents' lawsuit against their state for prohibiting mask mandates in schools. Their key phrase, "an irrational act of legislative madness...", applies to so many new laws passed recently by Republican state legislatures.

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MaryPat's avatar

Can grandparents from another state sue? I am terrified of letting my precious Kindergartner and 1st grade grandkids (who are visiting me from S.C.) go home.

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Ted's avatar

Probably. Why not? Who’s stopping u?

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Margaret The Artist's avatar

I am shocked by a mask ban in schools, but maybe the parents could try another approach. Since the nonvaxxers are all about having their Liberty and Choice to not wear masks or get vaxxed, isn't it the height of hypocrisy to take away the liberty/choice of wearing a mask??? Just a thought.

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Christine (FL)'s avatar

It’s not a ban that prevents people from wearing masks. Many govs don’t want to go against parents that do not want their children to wear masks. So when they say no school board shall apply a mask mandate, it is optional. Some kids will have masks and some won’t. Up to the parents who are all yelling at each other. So it will be a sh*t show at the kids expense.

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Gail (Chicago)'s avatar

Yes, lots of anxiety! Very thankful for our Governor who issued a mask mandate yesterday for K-12.

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Michele's avatar

Ours did in Oregon recently as well. We are back to being cautious again thanks to those who have refused to get vaccinated. We also have some arcane law here in Oregon that hospitals, etc. cannot mandate that their employees be vaccinated which the legislature for some unknown reason this session refused to get rid of. The governor has now said that all health care workers must either be vaccinated or have weekly tests which apparently is a way around it. We have noticed a huge line of cars for tests at the clinic where we go. It had fallen off to practically none a short time ago. Sigh.

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Ally House (Oregon)'s avatar

Too little too late. We are paying the price for opening up completely on 30 June (right before the 4th of July).

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Sharon's avatar

We have a county supervisor who has fought against masks and protections for kids since day one. He publicly said kids couldn’t get it, they should be in school and sports and never wear a mask. He’s been silent for 2 weeks. I watched meetings where he brought up no mask, no vaccine parents who claim children can’t learn with a mask and it psychologically destroys them. I fill his email with rebuttal letters. At one point he broadcast an email that he wasn’t going to be so negative about masks. Then used a public meeting to double down.

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Ted's avatar

Academy of America Pediatrics disagrees. These deniers are the néw lunatic fringe.

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Gail (Chicago)'s avatar

Ahh…the weekly test. I wonder how many people an infected person comes into contact with in 7 days time? For Lollapolooza, unvaccinated people had to have a negative test 72 hours before. How helpful is that??

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Ally House (Oregon)'s avatar

That was what Hawaii was requiring for all travelers prior to early July.

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Michele's avatar

She had to find a way around the stupid law, so the weekly test. It sounded to me from the news report that the biggest problem is in assisted living, nursing home, etc.

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Gail (Chicago)'s avatar

Yes, I know. The mayor of Chicago also had to find a way to answer the outrage that she would allow Lalapolooza to go on with this new variant raging.

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Christi McG (IL)'s avatar

Oh, me, too! Whew!

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Christi McG (IL)'s avatar

The Pritzger haters are having a royal fit!

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Robert Allen's avatar

…But…essentially people are being told not to wear masks. In addition, who wants to be the kid who’s parents tell their kids that they have to wear masks even though no one else is.

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Christine (FL)'s avatar

Well, actually, there will probably be more kids wearing masks than not. The actual support for them is huge. It’s just the anti-maskers are having most of the yelling and media coverage and governor’s favor.

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Gail (Chicago)'s avatar

I wish that were true! I have two teenage daughters - one is absolutely confident that she will never get infected and the other is scared of her own shadow and just wants to fit in. Both are vaccinated but I am leery of variants. At least the masks will protect whatever the vaccine might not recognize.

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Sharon's avatar

I’m so sorry. I have an 18 y/o grandson who lost his mother 3 years ago. He will do anything to protect us and doesn’t care what anyone else thinks of his mask. We never stopped wearing ours. I think girls can be more sensitive about their looks and how others see them. Explain that they can carry the virus and children that can’t get vaccinated yet need us to protect them. I worry so much about the little ones.

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Gail (Chicago)'s avatar

Yes, we have friends who have younger children who cannot get the vaccine yet. I have a sister who is an organ transplant survivor and is immunocompromised. You just never know what is going on in another person’s life. I’m so sorry for the loss to your family.

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Christine (FL)'s avatar

There will be a lot of kids at the elementary level wearing masks. No vaccine yet for them.

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Ted's avatar

Division. Dividing even parents from their kids.

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Kathy Clark's avatar

This is what concerns me. Can you imagine how those kids will separate themselves into us and them. How unfair for parents to do this to kids....as well as governor whos.

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Ted's avatar

They already have. And the division created with these kids will grow. This is a real problem, division and hatred never ends well.

It reminded me of this book, The Invention of Russia- Arkady Ostrovsky, 2015

" I can’t remember such a level of general hatred as the one in Moscow today. Not in 1991, during the August coup, not even in 1993. Aggression and cruelty are stoked by the television while the key definitions are supplied by the slightly possessed Kremlin master. ‘National traitors’, ‘fifth column’, ‘fascist junta’ – all these terms are coming from the same Kremlin office… The Kremlin is cultivating and rewarding the lowest instincts in people, provoking hatred and fighting. People are set off against each other. This hell cannot end peacefully."-Boris Nemtsov

"Less than a year later, Nemtsov was shot dead next to the Kremlin."

"After Nemtsov’s murder, Vladimir Yakovlev, the founder of Kommersant, made a public appeal to everyone who worked in the media. He spoke not just for himself, but also on behalf of his father, Yegor Yakovlev...

"Stop teaching people how to hate. Because hatred is already tearing the country to pieces. People live in a crazy illusion that the country is surrounded by enemies. Boys get killed in a war. Politicians are executed by the walls of the Kremlin. It is not Europe and America that stands on a verge of social catastrophe. The information war is first and foremost destroying ourselves.’

Divisional tactics go hand in hand in the teaching of hatred to secure power. We should look abroad sometimes to gain perspective on what is being waged on the American people by Republican's, FOX News, ONE America Network, the WSJ, and plenty of other outlets. Facebook connects the haters, amplifies their voices, and puts it all on steroids. Lets not go down this road like Hungry, led by Putin's Russia.

"We have work to do."

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FERN MCBRIDE (NYC)'s avatar

Ted, I just got off the phone with a friend that lives in another state when I read your comment. The last forty minutes of our conversation was spent on the unpleasant encounters she has had with people while she was on the road, speaking to stranger making noise, which made it difficult for her to talk to business contacts, and she gave other examples. The bottom line was how uncooperative, rude and aggressive people have been in the last year or two. There are obvious parallels to our antagonistic political arena, hatred spewed by the former president, the deepening divide among us etc., but the pandemic, social isolation and changing messages concerning covid from various sources have added to this anti-social environment. If feels as though we are going through more than cross currents. There have been other disruptive periods, but this is on another scale.

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Ted's avatar

Yes. Just ask families in eastern Ukraine, Georgia, and South Ossetia. I’ll try to find the quote. this is what an opposition leader described in Russia several years ago. Within a week he caught 4 bullets in the back, an died on a bridge across from the Kremlin.

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Cynthia O'Connor's avatar

Ok, I'm confused.... there's no ban on wearing masks?

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Christine (FL)'s avatar

No. The governor has said that school boards cannot mandate that all children must have mask on while indoors. It is optional. This appeases the parents in their red base that oppose masks vaccines and anything sensible. There are lawsuits popping up from groups of parents that are furious that governor will not mandate ALL wearing masks in a public school during high infection rate.

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Bruce Sellers (Georgia, USA)'s avatar

I just saw a report this morning--I forgot where I saw it--that said schools in Tallahassee were defying the governor and requiring masks for all students, period. Polls are showing DeSantis slipping in the approval ratings and it is believed his stances on mask-wearing and vaccines are why. He is only ahead among the over-70 group. Just to your north, our own Governor Bubba hasn't gone as far as DeSantis, but he's so desperate to score brownie points with T***p's base, he'll do or say ANYTHING.

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Cynthia O'Connor's avatar

I clicked on 'like' but I really want to say LOVED!!!

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Cynthia O'Connor's avatar

You're speaking about FL or AK?

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Christine (FL)'s avatar

Well, both. Arkansas gov is trying to reverse his earlier decision that schools could not mandate all wear masks. This has particularly riled up concerns at elementary level where children cannot get a vaccine yet.

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Michele's avatar

Saw a segment yesterday where the governor of Arkansas was holding COVID town halls and what he got, at least in the examples on the segment where people (who know nothing, but are now internet "experts") were screaming at him.

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Kathy Clark's avatar

Abbreviation for Arkansas can't be AK.

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Cynthia O'Connor's avatar

Ok?! What is it?

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Kathy Clark's avatar

I don't know...maybe AR?

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Cynthia O'Connor's avatar

yup! I checked it out! my bad!!! watch this...I haven't been right since I saw this..https://youtu.be/dLECCmKnrys

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Maggie's avatar

Loved that! Jon Stewart AND George Carlin - nothing better.

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Christi McG (IL)'s avatar

I taught in a middle to upper class white school district. You would not believe how many parents are demanding no mask mandate. It’s frightening to read about. The very people who are required to protect their offspring are damning them to COVID and another yesr of online learning.

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Gail (Chicago)'s avatar

I do not understand this! My maternal instinct screams “PROTECT” not throw them into the abyss!

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Cynthia O'Connor's avatar

What is wrong with them? Is it safe to assume that they are devoted to TFG?!

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Christi McG (IL)'s avatar

I don’t know about TFG, but they abhor out Democratic governor.

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Kim's avatar

There is no mask ban.

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Sara Toye's avatar

The law prohibits mandating mask wearing in Arkansas public schools.

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Kim's avatar

There is a difference between prohibiting mandating mask wearing and prohibiting mask wearing.

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Sara Toye's avatar

Am I seeing double negatives in this issue?

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Kim's avatar

I'm not sure what you mean. If you think banning a mandate to wear masks is a double negative, so be it.

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Sara Toye's avatar

I’m talking about banning a ban on wearing masks. In other words, the parents want to overturn 1002’s ban on wearing them.

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Kathy Clark's avatar

No one can stop children from wearing a mask.

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Sara Toye's avatar

Kathy Clark, you are right, but what many states are doing/trying to do is to prohibit public schools, etc. from requiring masks in schools. My county (in VA) is making masks optional for students and teachers and other publicly-paid school workers. I am in a high-risk area, so if all the anti-vaxxers, hesitant folks, and people who will never accept this vaccine, opt themselves and/or their children out of wearing masks, there will be an awful lot of unmasked kids and adults in our schools.

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Bonnie BW's avatar

This

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Cynthia O'Connor's avatar

Really! I hadn't thought of that?!?

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Margaret The Artist's avatar

Maybe we need to fight them in their own game.

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Cynthia O'Connor's avatar

Yes! I am horrified that they banned masks! What were/are they thinking? Bad enough banning mandates, but actually banning masks?! Who are those people?!

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Syd Griffin's avatar

I'm finding it harder and harder to maintain polite language when speaking with anti-vax/anti-mask people. I'm angry at what they're doing to us all, in terms of public health, our ability to regain social lives, and the national economy itself.

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Frederick's avatar

When there is imminent danger to some people, the full population must take action to “do no harm”. In this instance, of mask wearing when INDOORS, we should press the point that, “Your individual liberty DOES NOT extend to point where I and others are potentially put at risk”

Individual liberty ends when there is a present danger to others. I think of the gun safety debate here. Liberals lost this battle when we did not frame this issue as “gun safety” - rather than being tarnished with “gun control.” We ought to ALWAYS have been speaking to gun safety. first and foremost.

Liberals also lost the abortion issue when the right framed this as “abortion kills” and we debated about the abortion procedure. NO! This could have simply been a “women’s freedom and liberty” issue. Men’s freedom. Women’s freedom. Period. (end of period? 🤣

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Cathy Mc. (MO)'s avatar

Love all of this, Frederick. I have noticed that the Biden Administration seems to be getting some good messaging advice, and following it very consistently. This will help us all. I am really with you on the mistakes that were made in allowing the Rs to label the abortion battle.

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Frederick's avatar

Thanks Cathy. I wonder if you would post the Biden Admin ‘framing’ the issue, which I feel is different than message. Framing sets the context for a greater vision: such a “Government can be an ally of citizens”. I think Pres Joe says this. To me, THIS is framing. Messaging may place things into a smaller context, such as “Government can help distribute the vaccinations”

I’d like to see how many of us are willing to adopt the framing of the Biden Admin, to practice our use of language in this manner

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Lanita Grice (WA, the state)'s avatar

At the suggestion of others here, I've started dipping into George Lakoff and doing my best to understand framing. I am about to return to teaching and my adult students will be mostly agricultural workers whose first language is either Spanish or one of the native languages of Central and South America. I don't want to be "helping", I want to be an ally.

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MaryPat's avatar

Yes.

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MaryPat's avatar

Wow, you are so right Frederick. Again our messaging. Gun SAFETY. Women's FREEDOM.

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Robert Allen's avatar

Me too. I also find it hard to believe that the media is making such a big deal that the recommendations are fluid and ever changing. Especially since the virus is ever changing and it has been argued on both sides of the isle that the virus is different depending on the area and other circumstances. Why is it so hard for so many people to understand that this is an ever changing situation and that the precautions will change along with it. People seem to think they can text and drive and some believe that they can “do their own research” and prove the professionals wrong and yet they cant seem to piece together that masks and vaccines work and that the pandemic is playing out almost exactly as predicted by nearly all of the worlds best epidemiologists nearly from day one. It was predicted it would be dangerous, come in waves and on and on. There is nothing to be polite about anymore.

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Annette D. (North Carolina)'s avatar

I am so with you, Syd. I had hoped to visit my brother in Virginia to celebrate our birthdays this September...his is the day before mine...but now that is out of the question and I am angry.

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Cynthia O'Connor's avatar

I can't believe how stupid people are! Historians like our beloved Professor will surely swoon when attempting to explain the mindset of today's society!

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Bonnie BW's avatar

I am having a hard time turning off the rage I feel for those who just voted for the FG. Every time I have a screaming conversation in my head over an issue, I stop and repeat the conversation in a calm, adult voice. It helps. Such anger is not good for mental health. It feels like what I have read about The Peoples Revaluation in China. Unrecognizable chaos, Exhausting chaos. A Twilight zone we’re nothing is real.

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Christine (FL)'s avatar

I have not heard of a school board in Florida that has banned the wearing of masks or not allowed masks in schools. They are under executive order from gov DeSanitize to not enforce a mandate for wearing masks. It is up to the parents. As I said above..typical sh*t show in Florida.

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Gail (Chicago)'s avatar

Our local school board made masks “optional”. To most teenagers (who think they’re invincible), “optional” means it’s ok to go maskless.

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Cynthia O'Connor's avatar

I was referring to Arkansas, it was in a comment above....

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Christine (FL)'s avatar

That is true in Arkansas. The mask mandate the job ruled against st was that all students are mandated to wear mask. It is optional. He is now regretting tgst. Especially at elementary level where vaccine not available.

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Kim's avatar

There is no banning of masks! There is a ban on mask mandates.

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Kim's avatar

There is no law against wearing masks. There is a ban on mandates forcing people to wear masks. Let's not spread mistruths here.

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Christine (FL)'s avatar

Have tried saying it, Kim three times. It’s amazing how much misinformation can spread when it’s the norm, not the exception anymore. Even amongst well intended readers.

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Sara Toye's avatar

I apparently didn’t make the point I thought I was making. I was responding to Dr. R’s statement, as follows: “Today, two parents of school-aged children in Arkansas sued the state over its law banning the use of masks in schools.”

I was applauding the parents and expressing hope that other parents would follow suit. As we so often hear, I apologize for any inconvenience I may have caused.

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Kim's avatar

HCR was incorrect. You didn't cause an inconvenience, it's just my concern about spreading mistruths.

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Nance Hahn's avatar

I've noted with alarm a growing number of Unmask Our Kids signs in Connecticut towns. Yesterday, I sent this letter to the editor of the Hartford Courant.

As Ron DeSantis and other governors rule that masks cannot be mandatory in public schools, and Unmask Our Kids signs sprout along our shoreline, I respectfully ask that we consider this: Schools will open in less than a month. Children under 12 are the only members of our population who do not yet have access to Covid vaccine. The Delta variant is highly contagious, and it almost certainly will be followed by even more infectious variants. Youngsters who wear masks to school at their parents' urging are likely to be teased by the unmasked into discarding them; even if teasing doesn't occur, young children can take off their masks once they have left home. In short, to begin an elementary school year without masks is to invite a potentially deadly virus to live and mutate in our beloved and most innocent.

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Cathy Mc. (MO)'s avatar

I see what you said.

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Integral Doc's avatar

Pun intended, I assume?

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