Mostly the news is good, about the companies coming back to the US, jobs in the future for many now unemployed, we hope those jobs will pay well. Automation may “steal” some of the possible employment, but it all seems hopeful. Fossil fuels must be eliminated for energy needs and production of electric vehicles makes real sense. But the …
Mostly the news is good, about the companies coming back to the US, jobs in the future for many now unemployed, we hope those jobs will pay well. Automation may “steal” some of the possible employment, but it all seems hopeful. Fossil fuels must be eliminated for energy needs and production of electric vehicles makes real sense. But the documents are troublesome and what he did with them is even more so. I will flip out if we eventually learn the scumbag sold data, intel, names, gossip to our enemies. And maybe to our friends. Sure seems like he was pawing his way through everything. That little detail about the pile of highly classified papers interspersed with framed Time Magazine covers made it very real. Obsessed only with himself and his illegal and treasonous way to gain and hold power is the lesson here. Let’s fire him into prison. You’re FIRED!
"Automation may “steal” some of the possible employment, "
Our plate is pretty full, but this is one I think we would be wise to keep an eye on. Self driving cars, even if not quite ready for prime time, (but out there anyway) are definitely not your father's automation, and equipment that can in some cases fully and successfully run itself, does not, by definition, need an operator; unlike job-providing production machinery of the industrial revolution. AI appears to have the potential to cut into many more employment categories, making inroads into more skilled trades and professions; interpretive radiology for example.
Authoritarian nations are already using high tech in Orwellian ways. The cat is out of the bag for high technology, but I think it would be foolish not to think about how this emerging technology can be applied for both good and ill, and how it may impact traditional social and economic patterns in ways we can be proactive about or passive. Where do we want to end up and what would it take to get there?
I too have mixed feelings about automation and the growth of AI. I am the type that doesn’t use self-checkout at stores because I want to support the human cashiers.
I would like to know who and where the robots/automatons for any type of production line venture are being created and built. That too may be an industry that needs to come back to US shores.
In the past the US companies have moved off-shore and the companies were happy to do that for two big reasons - cheaper labor and to escape environmental regulations - giving us cheap products and a poisoned world. If we bring industries back to the US we have a lot of work to do on the Environmental Protection side of this equation.
I worked in hospital labs for over 40 years. When I started, the first laboratory automation, the Coulter Counter (which automatically counted and sized red cells and white cells) was being used. We had to manually count platelets under a microscope with a "clicker". Soon, a platelet counting machine came into use, and automated cell differentiation machines.
I can't possibly convey to the general public what these advances meant, even most doctors don't realize as they sometimes would come down to the lab. I believe this 100%: modern medicine would NOT exist without automation! A CBC (Complete Blood Count) in the mid 70s took hours. Now, about 60 seconds. I could expound upon the myriad automated machines and how they give meaningful results almost in real time; indeed, at our lab, blood test results were delivered within 30 minutes FROM TIME OF DRAW such that clot busting drugs could be administered to stroke victims within the 60 minute window. And that included an ER person literally jogging about two blocks in the huge complex with specimen in hand.
In an aside, medical laboratory technologists (now called Medical Laboratory Scientists) are a dying breed--HIV scared a lot of them away in the 80s. More opportunities for females came in the areas of physicians, and nursing paid much, much higher wages. Some went into forensics as CSI made it look so appealing (and the lab is NOTHING like CSI to the surprise and remorse of some student interns that I taught!) Radiology advances stole a number of potential employees away. The lab worker shortage is unknown to anyone except labs. This is a very serious issue which at some point will need to be addressed. Medical labs have automated to the point where it is doubtful more automation can be done, but without the current automation.......I can't even imagine how many millions more would have died during the worst of COVID.
Miselle thank you for telling your story and bringing to light the changes in your field and the issue of a shortage in lab workers. I learned something new today from you.
Thank you, Karen. This was a very serious problem with COVID. There is a lab test called the "D-DIMER" which in many medium sized hospitals might run about 5-10 a day. I had just retired right before COVID, but my friends told me our large complex which normally ran about 50 or so a day now was running about 100/shift. And the results were so out of range that our automation couldn't handle it, techs had to make manual dilutions to run. (That in itself is problematic as machinery will almost always replicate better than individual techs, even the same tech at different times. Be assured though that medical labs are highly regulated and we were all tested on all aspects of our job, at very least monthly, usually even more frequently!)
Medical lab work is fascinating to any who have knowledge of healthcare. Any current physicians, nurses, or others reading this: might want to call down to your lab and ask if you can have a tour. Many hospital labs offer tours during mid April when Medical Laboratory Week occurs. And if by chance you are a CEO/upper admin in a hospital and you have not visited your lab, shame on you. Do it today.
Automation and technology in general are fantastically powerful kit of tools, one that keenly fascinated me from the age of three or four. We reap benefits our forebears could not have dreamed of by it's means. But I think the profit motive alone will not insure that it is always used to society's benefit. It can be used to control and destroy as well as heal and it can result in social and environmental changes I think we would be wise to try to anticipate and guide best we can. To enjoy democracy, we have to keep the immense power of applied science from being dominantly controlled by too few hands.
China uses it to control.......maybe not destroy yet. Does automation destroy creativity? The intersection between freedom of expression and technology is waiting for some stop lights.
Great example of the importance of automation. States with all this new tech industry should spend some of the $$$ on the education of their populace - duh!
Thank You Miselle. All these decades in nursing (and even running a few samples to the lab) I never got the full picture before. Maybe time for a hospital medical laboratory TV drama.
Karen, do you also seek out full service gas stations, instead of pumping your own gas? My point being that losing jobs like gas station attendant and check out cashier to automation is not a bad thing. Those attendants and cashiers will likely find better jobs. So not to worry. :)
I do miss a full service gas station. The attendant filled the tank, washed the windshield, checked the oil all the while exchanging pleasantries and news about the going’s in our community. Does that give you an idea of my vintage? ;)
It may be true that attendants and cashiers will find a better job. My question is what constitutes a better job? Until we as a society establish a level playing field for employees and embrace Environmental Protection the “better” part is yet undefined.
I’ll bet I’m older than you. I remember when gas was 30 cents a gallon :) I had a favorite gas station attendant, too, he was great at doing all the stuff you list. As for automation and jobs…55 years ago I worked on a truck farm. Right about this time of year, we’d start picking potatoes. A tractor pulled the harvester, which dug into the row as the tractor drove, and scooped up potatoes, vines, rocks, weeds etc onto a chain conveyor. A bunch of us stood on either side of the conveyor as the chain wizzed by, and picked out everything but the potatoes, which dropped into bushel baskets at the end of the conveyor. Every once in a while somebody would get injured, a cut, or a broken finger. And our backs and legs ached badly by the end of the day. Yesterday on my Instagram, a small farm I follow posted a Reel of their new automated potato harvester in action. No people picking weeds or rocks, they are replaced by automated arms. That’s progress. I would never go back to picking rocks and weeds.
No reason to go back, nor can we as a practical matter. But we are charting our life, not watching a movie, so looking ahead is in order. Imagining the future is only an educated guess and life is full of surprises. Yet cautiously and observantly, identifying reliable patterns from the past, we can make better than random guesses about the future.
New technologies are rooted in this process, and so too "wisdom", individual and national requires it. So far projections of waste gas induced global heating have proved to be a pretty good map, mostly underestimating the pace of the changes. It seems to me we need to be examining all supportable possibilities in order to influence best outcomes.
I recall hearing over 50 years ago the number of patchcord telephone operators that would be needed to operate the US telephone network as it then existed, and it was absurdly huge. Huge racks of clattering electromechanical relays had taken over that function, since replaced by microprocessors. That's a very good thing. There is no incentive to go back. Performing that function by hand would require an army of employees, but doing useless work, and doing it more slowly and less accurately.
That said, digital technologies are developing at an accelerating pace. Replacing far more skilled job categories will surely be possible. Should we just take on faith that worthwhile jobs will emerge from unprecedented developments? Who gets to decide how society will adapt? Just entrusting ultra-wealthy "Job Creators" to create meaningful (or any) jobs for employees that they would rather shed has not worked very well for all of the people so far, and it is not unthinkable that future circumstances may tend to make this worse. Fortune favors the prepared mind.
I 'm sure it is more complex than I know, but it seems to me that by moving US manufacturing to China lawmakers and capital knowingly helped despotic China to become a world security threat in terms of dependencies and financial clout. Like "road rage", greed blinds the brain to compassion, wisdom, and even national interest, yet anything for a profit has been the mantra of plutocratically sponsored Republicans since Reagan. Trump epitomizes how soul-destroying greed can become, and yet he remains their champion.
".... and equipment that can in some cases fully and successfully run itself, does not, by definition, need an operator; unlike job-providing production machinery of the industrial revolution."
Oh, I don't know, JL. I see a real parallel between this new shift toward automation and that production machinery you reference. Think for example what it would look like today if farming were still human labor intensive, or if cars were built by hand.
As far as what it would take to make the shift positive, I believe it would take development of lower cost sustainable energy like sun power which includes wind turbines and efficient solar power, followed by fusion reactors. We are headed briskly in those directions now.
Finally, zero population growth across the planet, though that could be an asymptote established by how fast the above advances progress. There's still plenty of land available to support a much larger human population; we just need technology and free energy to do it. And not to destroy ourselves or our planet before we can get there.
But think of the fantastic future this could create for our species (and all the others)! No more need. No more toil. No more wars....
It's not out of the question, but we'd have to do some soul searching. As far as abandoning the aid of advanced technologies, I don't think that any appreciable number of people want to do that. But technology is a human power and power tends to corrupt. How we apply our technological powers will make a huge difference, which is the point I am trying to make. An ordinary kitchen knife can cut up veggies, or kill.
First, your name has me high “on the mountain,” revisiting my French studies and recent trip to that “beau pays.” Second, thanks for teaching me a new word — asymptote!
At this point we need reader (and Texas Hill Country League of Women Voters President) Cathy Learoyd to weigh in on the benefits of measuring a country's success in terms of The Well Being Index instead of GDPs.
Fanciful predictions from years ago that computers would put everyone out of work proved to be wildly overstated. Think of how many jobs both the hardware and software industries have been created in the last decade, producing goods and services that people would not have anticipated. Automation may initially result in the loss of jobs involving repetitive tasks, but there will be opportunities for people to program, maintain, and repair automated equipment... as well as jobs created in related and spin-off industries.
Automation has been slow to catch on in the construction industry, so I think it'll be awhile before we see massive changes in the skilled trades. Sure, maybe robots can be used to build houses, but there will always be a need for people to handle more specialized or customized (and less dangerous) tasks that aren't so easily automated. It's more likely that humans will work alongside robots, not that robots will replace people in skilled trades.
I remember how computers were going to do away with PAPER documents! And THAT was many many years ago - judging from what I'm still seeing - thats something else thats "slow to catch on" anywhere - including in the healthcare industry!
"...but there will be opportunities for people to program, maintain, and repair automated equipment... as well as jobs created in related and spin-off industries...It's more likely that humans will work alongside robots, not that robots will replace people in skilled trades**"
In theory yes, but I invite you to look at the number of people phased out of manufacturing and industry in the US rust belt and coal belt then discuss the "success" of reeducating/retraining them. Consider the tens of thousands of mostly women who worked as 0 operators and 411 Operators who, beginning in the early 2000s, began to be replaced by audio response. I witnessed thousands of women and men lose jobs with decent pay and benefits as offices closed around the US. Did they find employment with the same level of pay and benefits? A great many did not.
Too, consider the appalling trend to remove science and critical thinking from the K-12 curriculums. No, I do not share your vision of a rosy automated future. Isaac Asimov, way back when, didn't either.
Daria, you cite certain things that leave me wondering. How did you “witness thousands of women and men lose jobs with decent pay and benefits as offices closed around the US“. What makes you think that there’s an “appalling trend to remove science and critical thinking from the K-12 curriculums” when exactly the opposite is true? There’s a nation-wide movement to strengthen and emphasize STEM (science, technology, engineering and math) in public schools. I have witnessed this first hand, I’m a high school teacher. You and Ellen are both right about robots replacing jobs. Robots eliminate some jobs, and create other, higher value jobs for programming and monitoring. The jobs created are fewer in number than the jobs eliminated. You’re also right that there’s been little success in retraining coal and rust belt workers. The main reason is that there hadn’t been a concerted effort to do so. Another reason is that, absent a willingness to move, similar quality jobs may not exist in those same locales. Overall, there are promising trends. Unemployment is historically low, demand for workers is high and the result is that wages and benefits are starting to grow. Also, national support for unions is higher than it’s been in decades.
JR, I worked for a major telecom in mid level management. In 1998 there were literally thousands of Operators employed by the company. With a merger, the company grew even more. Beginning in 2000 Operator and Information Services Technology introduced what was called a whisper, the operator heard the customer's request before the operator greeted the customer. The goal was that the Average Work Time would drop significantly, from 25 - 30 seconds per call to under 12 seconds per call thus boosting productivity and eliminating the need foras many warm bodies to take calls. Dropping the AWT also meant that the Call Wait Time could be significantly reduced thus pushing more customers through the pipeline faster. BEFORE this technological rolled out , in the late 90s, the Telecom executives went to the Communication Workers of America and hammered out a new contract for new hires from about 1997. The Agent Services contract was bare bones featuring low starting pay with a low top pay ceiling. Paid and unpaid leave was decreased. Overtime pay was also reduced. Healthcare benefits were excellent at first but became less so as time went on. What was unknown to the Traditional side of the house was that their contract was going to be phased out either by office closures, forcing the Traditional Contract Operators to move into an Agent Contract Office at REDUCED WAGES or having them apply for other positions with no guarantee of employment. So, the Agent offices opened, the technology was introduced and fine tuned, the Traditional offices were closed. As the technology became more advanced the need for warm bodies dropped. More offices closed until all but one Agent office remained, then it closed. No there are no more Union contract employees in Operator and Information Services. The company used a very low number of exclusively non contract employees to handle calls. It does to this day. So, yes, when I say I watched thousands of people lose their jobs, I mean it. I was involved in breaking the news to employees that their office would be closing on thus and such date. I was on conference calls where hundreds of people were surplussed at a time. I was surplussed as well, as were other members of upper, mid and lower levels of management. On a mass conference call of hundreds.
Science and critical thinking in schools: perhaps you are lucky and live in an area where the school district is not run by a conservative bunch of people who believe that science is the devil's tool. I'm glad. I hope, too, you teach in a district where conservative, faith based crap isn't being dished out in history and social studies classes.
Unemployment is historically low, and there are thousands of jobs out there but many of them are low paying service industry jobs where, in some cases, the starting wage of 12 or 15 dollars an hour is still not a living wage. And, as for moving from the rust/coal belt to an urban area with available jobs, tell me how, logistically, that's supposed to happen? These are not people who are head hunted and offered relocation benefits. And the jobs? What are they and how many jobs will one person have to have to pay rent, utilities, food, transportation etc? The problem with the, "well, just move" concept is that it's frequently suggested by, white professionals who have no idea what it's like to be poor and have few marketable skills. And you are right, there are very, very few if any quality local jobs for rust belt/coal belt workers and we have done a terrible job retraining and or educating them. They have been left behind.
Historical changes tend to benefit some and burden others, but the devil is in the details. How recoverable are the losses some suffer, and what is the aggregated impact on society? That can be a toughie even from the view of liberty and justice for all, and devastating when maximizing profit is the dominating yardstick.
Daria, I did not state that there will be no economic displacement, nor did I imply a "vision of a rosy automated future." My point is simply that technological change does not have a universally negative impact on employment.
But where is it written that we have to limit our lives to “gainful employment” (I.e “work”) in order to be fulfilled, or even to survive? As several here have alluded, for every job eliminated by automation, several more are created, and in areas that no one could have predicted. Skilled machinists are replaced by CNC programmers that used to stand all day at a lathe, plus the people that designed and built the automated equipment, the people that installed and maintained it, the people that are planning for the next generation of automation and so on. It’s tempting to say that “oh yeah, you’re talking about a few elite people with the brains and education to do that, but what about the rest of the population that isn’t so fortunate”? Use your imagination. Relieved from the drudgery of “having to struggle to make ends meet” individuals can be freed up to gain specialized skills in areas we cant even imagine. Just transport yourself back 150 short years and imagine someone is trying to explain to you an industry like commercial aviation, employing huge numbers of people from executives and management at United Airlines and Boeing to all the workers in those industries, the pilots, flight crews and service workers, travel agents …. I could go on but you get the picture. And not to wax “utopian”, but lets say robotics and AI eventually replace all of those workers. What’s wrong with the idea of humans finally being free to pursue uniquely human pursuits? The arts, literature, music, or just gardening if they feel like it. By that time we may be colonizing Mars and beyond. Plenty of room out there for the rugged individual. Westward HO! (And hopefully the indigenous people see us coming this time.)
Except for your very last concept of *colonizing* anywhere (as it's been practiced so far) ... i couldn't agree more, LeMoine. AI can be used for benefit of all or not... and often we see some of each.
We do need to think bigger than trading every precious moment of our lives for money that gives someone else the options for exploring, learning, creating or just being. People in other countries live these values and raise their kids that way.
Let's measure 'success' on a Well Being Index for a change! That does mean a complete shift in how we live, what we value and how we treat each other. Not a short term process, given where we are in this country. A much rosier future COULD be ours...
"What’s wrong with the idea of humans finally being free to pursue uniquely human pursuits? The arts, literature, music, or just gardening if they feel like it. By that time we may be colonizing Mars and beyond. Plenty of room out there for the rugged individual. Westward HO! (And hopefully the indigenous people see us coming this time.)"
Sadly, you have swallowed the utopian dream. The only people who are going to be able to pursue uniquely human pursuits are the same ones who are doing so today.
Nothing ever changes if no one ever envisions and strives toward something better. Gotta start somewhere. Big dreams have evolved so much in this world. If not, we'd all still be living in caves.
I agree but we might want to think creatively about what being productive might mean. People fantasize about all the classic romances about the social trials of manor house aristocracy; and southern plantation mansions are a parallel in terms of "genteel" lifestyle, but of course that superficially "idyllic" life was based on human predation. Conceivably we could let technology handle the drudgery while we pursue more creative pursuits. Just maybe, since that's a very large order, may present unforeseen difficulties, and will face a lot of powerful enemies. But that's an very attractive route to explore. I just think we are better off anticipating what could be done right and what might go wrong.
A number of the people phased out of manufacturing and industry in the rust belt were working in abhorent and often dangerous conditions before automation. As told to me by a college friend who worked the line in summers to pay for his education, back in the day, the "Black guys" were put on the lower level of the assembly line, while the "White guys" were put on top. By end of shift, the Black guys were even more blackened by the dripping oil and debris that fell on them from the white guys above. Yet, my white college friend said he'd rather work below with the Blacks because they were happy, bragged about their beautiful wives, and were so fun to work with, while the Whites were mean and always whining about their bitchy wives. Hmm, can't remember the point of this story.
Yes. When I was a freshman in college, (what, 52 years ago?!), our very popular psychology professor advocated for a society that provided a " guaranteed income" to every adult. That alone, he said, would ameliorate so many of the psychological problems he was going to describe. Even though I was an open minded hippie with long braids, I had my doubts. He was right. And it's about time we stop thinking it is okay to have cracks in our social fabric for folks to fall through.
He was a star professor, classes had to be held in the biggest auditorium, and he repeated this point often. And I disagreed. So it stuck in this flighty head of mine. Then in my public health and psych nursing rotations, I saw he was right. Rarely in my 50 year career did I visit a "lazy" family. They were "disadvantaged" by a system designed to keep them there, or worse.
incredibly obvious, right??? and yet... so many people miss this completely. instead, they are busy blaming, judging and otherwise not supporting them. what a change we could experience in the world if we made this wise professor's ideas our policy! i'm so impressed and just love this, MaryPat!!
Recall that Richard Nixon proposed some level of basic income, and that was 50 years ago. No Republican president since has ventured to say such a thing, as far as I recall.
I don't recall, but when he was good, he was very, very good, and you know the rest. I don't recall any subsequent president venturing to say such a thing that I can remember. It seems to be that free enterprise is a very good thing so long as fundamental human rights take precedence.
YES!!!!!!!!!!! and that is the piece we're always missing... maybe because we value market forces over human needs. leads to lots of unnecessary misery... is my view.
I'm not sure that "Science" as a category of subject matter is being removed, but perhaps science as "critical thinking' has been weakened. I believe that underneath the catalog of discoveries that science produces, which is the view of science found on quiz shows and I think to some degree, definitions of "science literacy", is a disciplined empirical philosophy. Our mind manufactures experiential reality regardless of how well tethered it is are to careful observation and measurement, as current "GOP" narratives now show. People will often hallucinate under sensory deprivation. The scientific method is democratic insofar as it appeals to what anyone able to do so can observe and measure for themselves, something of which even children can do to a fair degree. Language literacy is knowing HOW TO USE written language skills, not just being able to describe them, and science "literacy" would seem the same. Jurors are commanded to pay attention to evidence, which is a component of scientific thinking. When MTG says something dubious, and you look up the record, that is a component of scientific thinking, even apart from the whole exhaustive, formal methodology of professional science. You don't have to be a pro to stumble though a game of football. Those invested in unsupportable views of reality will not be fans.
I know I oversimplify, but it seems to me that in my lifetime education has been pushed to be overly focused by the essential function of job training over life skills in general, to satisfy commerce. It is my impression that, from that commerce perspective, the aim is to produce uniform, interchangeable, and disposable DNA-based robots, to hold the line before steel and silicon based replacements can be readied.
Also overstated by media was value and impact of teaching kids a few lines of computer code. A flurry of undisciplined imaginings with the introductions of new technologies. The same was done with TV. But I think that some developments slip in under the RADAR, such as the full impact of unregulated private data collection and AI. Industrialization displaced but also created jobs building, maintaining and operating machines. Throughout most of their history, computers were number crunchers. A car that can self-pilot will someday not need a "driver". Companies are talking about self-driving trucks and passenger planes. That's not just a category job titles, it demonstrates the degree of skilled labor that may be replaced by such techniques, and many people insufficiently skilled as it is.
There are humane, ethical, democratic responses to these and other changes we are likely to face, but allowing the profit-centered "marketplace" to make all of those decisions is probably a poor strategy.
Automation has yanked jobs from millions of people; robotics in manufacturing, automated voice response systems, self check out, ATM machines, online chat bots instead of a help desk, parking lot park and pay kiosks, automated toll way systems, are all examples of how technology and automation have taken people out of the work force. We were told these changes would increase efficiency, enhance productivity and the overall quality of every day life.
I'm not saying technology in and of itself is bad, but bear in mind, every innovation mentioned above was researched, developed and designed to remove a human from a job and replace them with automation. Things will only become more severe as more and more people are nudged then pushed out of their jobs.
Daria, we got tea today, in India, during a monsoon downpour. My friend paid for two teas, twelve rupees, ONLINE at the kiosk on his debit card. Just unbelievable.
we need to prepare and train people for the NEW jobs technology brings... and it's a long term process. we also need to adequately support people who lose their jobs in the short term... and this is not how it works, unfortunately. that's one place we need to make huge changes that help.
we're much too 'market' oriented rather than people oriented... and the human suffering this brings isn't valued or accommodated at all... and that is our problem.
easing ourselves into these new technologies takes time and adjustments, yet things change and evolve at such a rapid pace that most of us can't keep up.
keeping adequate education/training current and available so that next generations can adapt while their parents and grandparents can still live decent lives costs little $$ with huge benefits for all. UBI would help...
Amy Webb, the amazing futurist who writes for the WaPo, has many cogent thoughts on this topic, and if you prefer your thoughts to be shaped by fiction, Kazuo Ishiguru's excellent novel Klara and the Sun is a vision of a future with AI robots to be companions to our children. I watch my grandson engrossed in something on his mother's phone and think of Klara.
The purpose of automated driving is to monetize the American people. Shoshona Zuboff of the Harvard Business School, among others, has written about that.
Two “facts” regarding automated manufacturing returning to the US. First, the incentive of tax free manufacturing elsewhere will no longer lure American companies overseas. So regardless where those companies produce their wares, taxes will be paid here if the company is based here and subsidiaries of foreign based companies like LG will also pay taxes here. More taxes from businesses will generate more tax dollars for infrastructure investment here at home, along with reducing the tax burden of people like you and me. I don’t know about you but when I pay out a higher percentage of my income than a corporation like 3M (corp headquarters about 5 miles from my house; income in the billions) or Best Buy Company (corp headquarters about 11 miles from my house;) I get a little testy.
Second fact is that the US’s environmental standards are high, much higher than many other countries (though below others sadly). That means less air and water pollution produced from the creation of said products here than say those currently produced in Vietnam or even China. And even automated machinery requires maintenance - producing good jobs.
A third benefit that is huge in my opinion is that if the items produced only have to be shipped from Ohio to say Minnesota, then much less carbon will be emitted. That too is a win.
I am now hopeful I will be able to afford to install solar panels on my roof since shipping delays from China will no longer be a factor. As most of us here understand, it’s the climate crisis we HAVE to address. Now.
"So regardless where those companies produce their wares, taxes will be paid here if the company is based here and subsidiaries of foreign based companies like LG will also pay taxes here."
Finally. Tax gimmicks based on a fiction are just eyewink tax evasion. My understanding is if I make money in another country, I owe taxes there AND here, but get US tax credit for foreign taxes paid. That seems fair. But somehow companies move money like the "pea" in a shell game, from country to country, and tax burdens somehow disappear.
The very much needed infrastructure rebuild across the country will provide work at good wages in clerical and management in addition to physical labor. This may require fine tuning immigration as hiring is already difficult.
Mostly the news is good, about the companies coming back to the US, jobs in the future for many now unemployed, we hope those jobs will pay well. Automation may “steal” some of the possible employment, but it all seems hopeful. Fossil fuels must be eliminated for energy needs and production of electric vehicles makes real sense. But the documents are troublesome and what he did with them is even more so. I will flip out if we eventually learn the scumbag sold data, intel, names, gossip to our enemies. And maybe to our friends. Sure seems like he was pawing his way through everything. That little detail about the pile of highly classified papers interspersed with framed Time Magazine covers made it very real. Obsessed only with himself and his illegal and treasonous way to gain and hold power is the lesson here. Let’s fire him into prison. You’re FIRED!
"Automation may “steal” some of the possible employment, "
Our plate is pretty full, but this is one I think we would be wise to keep an eye on. Self driving cars, even if not quite ready for prime time, (but out there anyway) are definitely not your father's automation, and equipment that can in some cases fully and successfully run itself, does not, by definition, need an operator; unlike job-providing production machinery of the industrial revolution. AI appears to have the potential to cut into many more employment categories, making inroads into more skilled trades and professions; interpretive radiology for example.
Authoritarian nations are already using high tech in Orwellian ways. The cat is out of the bag for high technology, but I think it would be foolish not to think about how this emerging technology can be applied for both good and ill, and how it may impact traditional social and economic patterns in ways we can be proactive about or passive. Where do we want to end up and what would it take to get there?
I too have mixed feelings about automation and the growth of AI. I am the type that doesn’t use self-checkout at stores because I want to support the human cashiers.
I would like to know who and where the robots/automatons for any type of production line venture are being created and built. That too may be an industry that needs to come back to US shores.
In the past the US companies have moved off-shore and the companies were happy to do that for two big reasons - cheaper labor and to escape environmental regulations - giving us cheap products and a poisoned world. If we bring industries back to the US we have a lot of work to do on the Environmental Protection side of this equation.
I worked in hospital labs for over 40 years. When I started, the first laboratory automation, the Coulter Counter (which automatically counted and sized red cells and white cells) was being used. We had to manually count platelets under a microscope with a "clicker". Soon, a platelet counting machine came into use, and automated cell differentiation machines.
I can't possibly convey to the general public what these advances meant, even most doctors don't realize as they sometimes would come down to the lab. I believe this 100%: modern medicine would NOT exist without automation! A CBC (Complete Blood Count) in the mid 70s took hours. Now, about 60 seconds. I could expound upon the myriad automated machines and how they give meaningful results almost in real time; indeed, at our lab, blood test results were delivered within 30 minutes FROM TIME OF DRAW such that clot busting drugs could be administered to stroke victims within the 60 minute window. And that included an ER person literally jogging about two blocks in the huge complex with specimen in hand.
In an aside, medical laboratory technologists (now called Medical Laboratory Scientists) are a dying breed--HIV scared a lot of them away in the 80s. More opportunities for females came in the areas of physicians, and nursing paid much, much higher wages. Some went into forensics as CSI made it look so appealing (and the lab is NOTHING like CSI to the surprise and remorse of some student interns that I taught!) Radiology advances stole a number of potential employees away. The lab worker shortage is unknown to anyone except labs. This is a very serious issue which at some point will need to be addressed. Medical labs have automated to the point where it is doubtful more automation can be done, but without the current automation.......I can't even imagine how many millions more would have died during the worst of COVID.
Miselle thank you for telling your story and bringing to light the changes in your field and the issue of a shortage in lab workers. I learned something new today from you.
Thank you, Karen. This was a very serious problem with COVID. There is a lab test called the "D-DIMER" which in many medium sized hospitals might run about 5-10 a day. I had just retired right before COVID, but my friends told me our large complex which normally ran about 50 or so a day now was running about 100/shift. And the results were so out of range that our automation couldn't handle it, techs had to make manual dilutions to run. (That in itself is problematic as machinery will almost always replicate better than individual techs, even the same tech at different times. Be assured though that medical labs are highly regulated and we were all tested on all aspects of our job, at very least monthly, usually even more frequently!)
Medical lab work is fascinating to any who have knowledge of healthcare. Any current physicians, nurses, or others reading this: might want to call down to your lab and ask if you can have a tour. Many hospital labs offer tours during mid April when Medical Laboratory Week occurs. And if by chance you are a CEO/upper admin in a hospital and you have not visited your lab, shame on you. Do it today.
😲
Automation and technology in general are fantastically powerful kit of tools, one that keenly fascinated me from the age of three or four. We reap benefits our forebears could not have dreamed of by it's means. But I think the profit motive alone will not insure that it is always used to society's benefit. It can be used to control and destroy as well as heal and it can result in social and environmental changes I think we would be wise to try to anticipate and guide best we can. To enjoy democracy, we have to keep the immense power of applied science from being dominantly controlled by too few hands.
China uses it to control.......maybe not destroy yet. Does automation destroy creativity? The intersection between freedom of expression and technology is waiting for some stop lights.
Yes, which means we must elect wise leaders
“Because power corrupts, society’s demands for moral authority and character increase as the importance of the position increases.” – John Adams
Great example of the importance of automation. States with all this new tech industry should spend some of the $$$ on the education of their populace - duh!
Thank You Miselle. All these decades in nursing (and even running a few samples to the lab) I never got the full picture before. Maybe time for a hospital medical laboratory TV drama.
Thank you for this view into the real world of the lab.
Karen, do you also seek out full service gas stations, instead of pumping your own gas? My point being that losing jobs like gas station attendant and check out cashier to automation is not a bad thing. Those attendants and cashiers will likely find better jobs. So not to worry. :)
I do miss a full service gas station. The attendant filled the tank, washed the windshield, checked the oil all the while exchanging pleasantries and news about the going’s in our community. Does that give you an idea of my vintage? ;)
It may be true that attendants and cashiers will find a better job. My question is what constitutes a better job? Until we as a society establish a level playing field for employees and embrace Environmental Protection the “better” part is yet undefined.
I’ll bet I’m older than you. I remember when gas was 30 cents a gallon :) I had a favorite gas station attendant, too, he was great at doing all the stuff you list. As for automation and jobs…55 years ago I worked on a truck farm. Right about this time of year, we’d start picking potatoes. A tractor pulled the harvester, which dug into the row as the tractor drove, and scooped up potatoes, vines, rocks, weeds etc onto a chain conveyor. A bunch of us stood on either side of the conveyor as the chain wizzed by, and picked out everything but the potatoes, which dropped into bushel baskets at the end of the conveyor. Every once in a while somebody would get injured, a cut, or a broken finger. And our backs and legs ached badly by the end of the day. Yesterday on my Instagram, a small farm I follow posted a Reel of their new automated potato harvester in action. No people picking weeds or rocks, they are replaced by automated arms. That’s progress. I would never go back to picking rocks and weeds.
No reason to go back, nor can we as a practical matter. But we are charting our life, not watching a movie, so looking ahead is in order. Imagining the future is only an educated guess and life is full of surprises. Yet cautiously and observantly, identifying reliable patterns from the past, we can make better than random guesses about the future.
New technologies are rooted in this process, and so too "wisdom", individual and national requires it. So far projections of waste gas induced global heating have proved to be a pretty good map, mostly underestimating the pace of the changes. It seems to me we need to be examining all supportable possibilities in order to influence best outcomes.
Totally.
I recall hearing over 50 years ago the number of patchcord telephone operators that would be needed to operate the US telephone network as it then existed, and it was absurdly huge. Huge racks of clattering electromechanical relays had taken over that function, since replaced by microprocessors. That's a very good thing. There is no incentive to go back. Performing that function by hand would require an army of employees, but doing useless work, and doing it more slowly and less accurately.
That said, digital technologies are developing at an accelerating pace. Replacing far more skilled job categories will surely be possible. Should we just take on faith that worthwhile jobs will emerge from unprecedented developments? Who gets to decide how society will adapt? Just entrusting ultra-wealthy "Job Creators" to create meaningful (or any) jobs for employees that they would rather shed has not worked very well for all of the people so far, and it is not unthinkable that future circumstances may tend to make this worse. Fortune favors the prepared mind.
Wish we had been a little more prepared for the last 6 years.
I 'm sure it is more complex than I know, but it seems to me that by moving US manufacturing to China lawmakers and capital knowingly helped despotic China to become a world security threat in terms of dependencies and financial clout. Like "road rage", greed blinds the brain to compassion, wisdom, and even national interest, yet anything for a profit has been the mantra of plutocratically sponsored Republicans since Reagan. Trump epitomizes how soul-destroying greed can become, and yet he remains their champion.
Barcodes took over many jobs. But we like them.
".... and equipment that can in some cases fully and successfully run itself, does not, by definition, need an operator; unlike job-providing production machinery of the industrial revolution."
Oh, I don't know, JL. I see a real parallel between this new shift toward automation and that production machinery you reference. Think for example what it would look like today if farming were still human labor intensive, or if cars were built by hand.
As far as what it would take to make the shift positive, I believe it would take development of lower cost sustainable energy like sun power which includes wind turbines and efficient solar power, followed by fusion reactors. We are headed briskly in those directions now.
Finally, zero population growth across the planet, though that could be an asymptote established by how fast the above advances progress. There's still plenty of land available to support a much larger human population; we just need technology and free energy to do it. And not to destroy ourselves or our planet before we can get there.
But think of the fantastic future this could create for our species (and all the others)! No more need. No more toil. No more wars....
Approaching Zero population growth is easy, once women are educated, and have rights.
You'll have to speak to Amy Coney Barrett about that, Lynn :-)
Just that thought makes me nauseous.
Coney Island, LeMoine? I loved your comment, btw. Are you a monk?
Lynn, you must also educate the men. Maybe them first.
I disagree. They've had their chance(s)
Well, do they get a “one millionth” chance? Oh god.
California’s making vasectomies free!!! 🤩🤩 The entire nation should follow. It’s the right thing to do. Simple office procedure.
LOVE this
We need trees so we can breathe. The trees need land. Lots of it.
LeMoine, I love this observation....
"No more toil. No more wars...."
It's not out of the question, but we'd have to do some soul searching. As far as abandoning the aid of advanced technologies, I don't think that any appreciable number of people want to do that. But technology is a human power and power tends to corrupt. How we apply our technological powers will make a huge difference, which is the point I am trying to make. An ordinary kitchen knife can cut up veggies, or kill.
First, your name has me high “on the mountain,” revisiting my French studies and recent trip to that “beau pays.” Second, thanks for teaching me a new word — asymptote!
At this point we need reader (and Texas Hill Country League of Women Voters President) Cathy Learoyd to weigh in on the benefits of measuring a country's success in terms of The Well Being Index instead of GDPs.
isn't that the REAL measure??
YES
Yes!
Fanciful predictions from years ago that computers would put everyone out of work proved to be wildly overstated. Think of how many jobs both the hardware and software industries have been created in the last decade, producing goods and services that people would not have anticipated. Automation may initially result in the loss of jobs involving repetitive tasks, but there will be opportunities for people to program, maintain, and repair automated equipment... as well as jobs created in related and spin-off industries.
Automation has been slow to catch on in the construction industry, so I think it'll be awhile before we see massive changes in the skilled trades. Sure, maybe robots can be used to build houses, but there will always be a need for people to handle more specialized or customized (and less dangerous) tasks that aren't so easily automated. It's more likely that humans will work alongside robots, not that robots will replace people in skilled trades.
I remember how computers were going to do away with PAPER documents! And THAT was many many years ago - judging from what I'm still seeing - thats something else thats "slow to catch on" anywhere - including in the healthcare industry!
And the IRS...
Oh yes - well, pretty much any large entity, to be honest! Government OR private.
"...but there will be opportunities for people to program, maintain, and repair automated equipment... as well as jobs created in related and spin-off industries...It's more likely that humans will work alongside robots, not that robots will replace people in skilled trades**"
In theory yes, but I invite you to look at the number of people phased out of manufacturing and industry in the US rust belt and coal belt then discuss the "success" of reeducating/retraining them. Consider the tens of thousands of mostly women who worked as 0 operators and 411 Operators who, beginning in the early 2000s, began to be replaced by audio response. I witnessed thousands of women and men lose jobs with decent pay and benefits as offices closed around the US. Did they find employment with the same level of pay and benefits? A great many did not.
Too, consider the appalling trend to remove science and critical thinking from the K-12 curriculums. No, I do not share your vision of a rosy automated future. Isaac Asimov, way back when, didn't either.
** I believe you are dead wrong.
Daria, you cite certain things that leave me wondering. How did you “witness thousands of women and men lose jobs with decent pay and benefits as offices closed around the US“. What makes you think that there’s an “appalling trend to remove science and critical thinking from the K-12 curriculums” when exactly the opposite is true? There’s a nation-wide movement to strengthen and emphasize STEM (science, technology, engineering and math) in public schools. I have witnessed this first hand, I’m a high school teacher. You and Ellen are both right about robots replacing jobs. Robots eliminate some jobs, and create other, higher value jobs for programming and monitoring. The jobs created are fewer in number than the jobs eliminated. You’re also right that there’s been little success in retraining coal and rust belt workers. The main reason is that there hadn’t been a concerted effort to do so. Another reason is that, absent a willingness to move, similar quality jobs may not exist in those same locales. Overall, there are promising trends. Unemployment is historically low, demand for workers is high and the result is that wages and benefits are starting to grow. Also, national support for unions is higher than it’s been in decades.
JR, I worked for a major telecom in mid level management. In 1998 there were literally thousands of Operators employed by the company. With a merger, the company grew even more. Beginning in 2000 Operator and Information Services Technology introduced what was called a whisper, the operator heard the customer's request before the operator greeted the customer. The goal was that the Average Work Time would drop significantly, from 25 - 30 seconds per call to under 12 seconds per call thus boosting productivity and eliminating the need foras many warm bodies to take calls. Dropping the AWT also meant that the Call Wait Time could be significantly reduced thus pushing more customers through the pipeline faster. BEFORE this technological rolled out , in the late 90s, the Telecom executives went to the Communication Workers of America and hammered out a new contract for new hires from about 1997. The Agent Services contract was bare bones featuring low starting pay with a low top pay ceiling. Paid and unpaid leave was decreased. Overtime pay was also reduced. Healthcare benefits were excellent at first but became less so as time went on. What was unknown to the Traditional side of the house was that their contract was going to be phased out either by office closures, forcing the Traditional Contract Operators to move into an Agent Contract Office at REDUCED WAGES or having them apply for other positions with no guarantee of employment. So, the Agent offices opened, the technology was introduced and fine tuned, the Traditional offices were closed. As the technology became more advanced the need for warm bodies dropped. More offices closed until all but one Agent office remained, then it closed. No there are no more Union contract employees in Operator and Information Services. The company used a very low number of exclusively non contract employees to handle calls. It does to this day. So, yes, when I say I watched thousands of people lose their jobs, I mean it. I was involved in breaking the news to employees that their office would be closing on thus and such date. I was on conference calls where hundreds of people were surplussed at a time. I was surplussed as well, as were other members of upper, mid and lower levels of management. On a mass conference call of hundreds.
Science and critical thinking in schools: perhaps you are lucky and live in an area where the school district is not run by a conservative bunch of people who believe that science is the devil's tool. I'm glad. I hope, too, you teach in a district where conservative, faith based crap isn't being dished out in history and social studies classes.
Unemployment is historically low, and there are thousands of jobs out there but many of them are low paying service industry jobs where, in some cases, the starting wage of 12 or 15 dollars an hour is still not a living wage. And, as for moving from the rust/coal belt to an urban area with available jobs, tell me how, logistically, that's supposed to happen? These are not people who are head hunted and offered relocation benefits. And the jobs? What are they and how many jobs will one person have to have to pay rent, utilities, food, transportation etc? The problem with the, "well, just move" concept is that it's frequently suggested by, white professionals who have no idea what it's like to be poor and have few marketable skills. And you are right, there are very, very few if any quality local jobs for rust belt/coal belt workers and we have done a terrible job retraining and or educating them. They have been left behind.
Historical changes tend to benefit some and burden others, but the devil is in the details. How recoverable are the losses some suffer, and what is the aggregated impact on society? That can be a toughie even from the view of liberty and justice for all, and devastating when maximizing profit is the dominating yardstick.
I am loving this discussion.
Daria, I did not state that there will be no economic displacement, nor did I imply a "vision of a rosy automated future." My point is simply that technological change does not have a universally negative impact on employment.
But where is it written that we have to limit our lives to “gainful employment” (I.e “work”) in order to be fulfilled, or even to survive? As several here have alluded, for every job eliminated by automation, several more are created, and in areas that no one could have predicted. Skilled machinists are replaced by CNC programmers that used to stand all day at a lathe, plus the people that designed and built the automated equipment, the people that installed and maintained it, the people that are planning for the next generation of automation and so on. It’s tempting to say that “oh yeah, you’re talking about a few elite people with the brains and education to do that, but what about the rest of the population that isn’t so fortunate”? Use your imagination. Relieved from the drudgery of “having to struggle to make ends meet” individuals can be freed up to gain specialized skills in areas we cant even imagine. Just transport yourself back 150 short years and imagine someone is trying to explain to you an industry like commercial aviation, employing huge numbers of people from executives and management at United Airlines and Boeing to all the workers in those industries, the pilots, flight crews and service workers, travel agents …. I could go on but you get the picture. And not to wax “utopian”, but lets say robotics and AI eventually replace all of those workers. What’s wrong with the idea of humans finally being free to pursue uniquely human pursuits? The arts, literature, music, or just gardening if they feel like it. By that time we may be colonizing Mars and beyond. Plenty of room out there for the rugged individual. Westward HO! (And hopefully the indigenous people see us coming this time.)
Except for your very last concept of *colonizing* anywhere (as it's been practiced so far) ... i couldn't agree more, LeMoine. AI can be used for benefit of all or not... and often we see some of each.
We do need to think bigger than trading every precious moment of our lives for money that gives someone else the options for exploring, learning, creating or just being. People in other countries live these values and raise their kids that way.
Let's measure 'success' on a Well Being Index for a change! That does mean a complete shift in how we live, what we value and how we treat each other. Not a short term process, given where we are in this country. A much rosier future COULD be ours...
I was being "tongue in cheek" at the end, Suz. I don't advocate colonizing in any form. I suspect there's plenty of room out there for all.
glad to know, LeMoine!! :D
"What’s wrong with the idea of humans finally being free to pursue uniquely human pursuits? The arts, literature, music, or just gardening if they feel like it. By that time we may be colonizing Mars and beyond. Plenty of room out there for the rugged individual. Westward HO! (And hopefully the indigenous people see us coming this time.)"
Sadly, you have swallowed the utopian dream. The only people who are going to be able to pursue uniquely human pursuits are the same ones who are doing so today.
💞
Nothing ever changes if no one ever envisions and strives toward something better. Gotta start somewhere. Big dreams have evolved so much in this world. If not, we'd all still be living in caves.
People need to be creative and feel productive (work). Otherwise they turn out like .............
I agree but we might want to think creatively about what being productive might mean. People fantasize about all the classic romances about the social trials of manor house aristocracy; and southern plantation mansions are a parallel in terms of "genteel" lifestyle, but of course that superficially "idyllic" life was based on human predation. Conceivably we could let technology handle the drudgery while we pursue more creative pursuits. Just maybe, since that's a very large order, may present unforeseen difficulties, and will face a lot of powerful enemies. But that's an very attractive route to explore. I just think we are better off anticipating what could be done right and what might go wrong.
As long as we don't assume.
A number of the people phased out of manufacturing and industry in the rust belt were working in abhorent and often dangerous conditions before automation. As told to me by a college friend who worked the line in summers to pay for his education, back in the day, the "Black guys" were put on the lower level of the assembly line, while the "White guys" were put on top. By end of shift, the Black guys were even more blackened by the dripping oil and debris that fell on them from the white guys above. Yet, my white college friend said he'd rather work below with the Blacks because they were happy, bragged about their beautiful wives, and were so fun to work with, while the Whites were mean and always whining about their bitchy wives. Hmm, can't remember the point of this story.
Got the point.
there's more to life than just being miserable to make money?
My experience, too! And music and dance!
this is something Andrew Yang talks about and a big reason he proposed UBI ...
Yes. When I was a freshman in college, (what, 52 years ago?!), our very popular psychology professor advocated for a society that provided a " guaranteed income" to every adult. That alone, he said, would ameliorate so many of the psychological problems he was going to describe. Even though I was an open minded hippie with long braids, I had my doubts. He was right. And it's about time we stop thinking it is okay to have cracks in our social fabric for folks to fall through.
oh my!! and you still remember his lessons... thanks for sharing that!
He was a star professor, classes had to be held in the biggest auditorium, and he repeated this point often. And I disagreed. So it stuck in this flighty head of mine. Then in my public health and psych nursing rotations, I saw he was right. Rarely in my 50 year career did I visit a "lazy" family. They were "disadvantaged" by a system designed to keep them there, or worse.
incredibly obvious, right??? and yet... so many people miss this completely. instead, they are busy blaming, judging and otherwise not supporting them. what a change we could experience in the world if we made this wise professor's ideas our policy! i'm so impressed and just love this, MaryPat!!
He was right.
Recall that Richard Nixon proposed some level of basic income, and that was 50 years ago. No Republican president since has ventured to say such a thing, as far as I recall.
I don't recall, but when he was good, he was very, very good, and you know the rest. I don't recall any subsequent president venturing to say such a thing that I can remember. It seems to be that free enterprise is a very good thing so long as fundamental human rights take precedence.
YES!!!!!!!!!!! and that is the piece we're always missing... maybe because we value market forces over human needs. leads to lots of unnecessary misery... is my view.
wow!! he did??
absolutely!!
Yes indeed.
I'm not sure that "Science" as a category of subject matter is being removed, but perhaps science as "critical thinking' has been weakened. I believe that underneath the catalog of discoveries that science produces, which is the view of science found on quiz shows and I think to some degree, definitions of "science literacy", is a disciplined empirical philosophy. Our mind manufactures experiential reality regardless of how well tethered it is are to careful observation and measurement, as current "GOP" narratives now show. People will often hallucinate under sensory deprivation. The scientific method is democratic insofar as it appeals to what anyone able to do so can observe and measure for themselves, something of which even children can do to a fair degree. Language literacy is knowing HOW TO USE written language skills, not just being able to describe them, and science "literacy" would seem the same. Jurors are commanded to pay attention to evidence, which is a component of scientific thinking. When MTG says something dubious, and you look up the record, that is a component of scientific thinking, even apart from the whole exhaustive, formal methodology of professional science. You don't have to be a pro to stumble though a game of football. Those invested in unsupportable views of reality will not be fans.
I know I oversimplify, but it seems to me that in my lifetime education has been pushed to be overly focused by the essential function of job training over life skills in general, to satisfy commerce. It is my impression that, from that commerce perspective, the aim is to produce uniform, interchangeable, and disposable DNA-based robots, to hold the line before steel and silicon based replacements can be readied.
Also overstated by media was value and impact of teaching kids a few lines of computer code. A flurry of undisciplined imaginings with the introductions of new technologies. The same was done with TV. But I think that some developments slip in under the RADAR, such as the full impact of unregulated private data collection and AI. Industrialization displaced but also created jobs building, maintaining and operating machines. Throughout most of their history, computers were number crunchers. A car that can self-pilot will someday not need a "driver". Companies are talking about self-driving trucks and passenger planes. That's not just a category job titles, it demonstrates the degree of skilled labor that may be replaced by such techniques, and many people insufficiently skilled as it is.
There are humane, ethical, democratic responses to these and other changes we are likely to face, but allowing the profit-centered "marketplace" to make all of those decisions is probably a poor strategy.
Automation has yanked jobs from millions of people; robotics in manufacturing, automated voice response systems, self check out, ATM machines, online chat bots instead of a help desk, parking lot park and pay kiosks, automated toll way systems, are all examples of how technology and automation have taken people out of the work force. We were told these changes would increase efficiency, enhance productivity and the overall quality of every day life.
I'm not saying technology in and of itself is bad, but bear in mind, every innovation mentioned above was researched, developed and designed to remove a human from a job and replace them with automation. Things will only become more severe as more and more people are nudged then pushed out of their jobs.
Daria, we got tea today, in India, during a monsoon downpour. My friend paid for two teas, twelve rupees, ONLINE at the kiosk on his debit card. Just unbelievable.
Who made the tea?
we need to prepare and train people for the NEW jobs technology brings... and it's a long term process. we also need to adequately support people who lose their jobs in the short term... and this is not how it works, unfortunately. that's one place we need to make huge changes that help.
I absolutely agree.
we're much too 'market' oriented rather than people oriented... and the human suffering this brings isn't valued or accommodated at all... and that is our problem.
easing ourselves into these new technologies takes time and adjustments, yet things change and evolve at such a rapid pace that most of us can't keep up.
keeping adequate education/training current and available so that next generations can adapt while their parents and grandparents can still live decent lives costs little $$ with huge benefits for all. UBI would help...
Amy Webb, the amazing futurist who writes for the WaPo, has many cogent thoughts on this topic, and if you prefer your thoughts to be shaped by fiction, Kazuo Ishiguru's excellent novel Klara and the Sun is a vision of a future with AI robots to be companions to our children. I watch my grandson engrossed in something on his mother's phone and think of Klara.
A spectacular book..........thanks for mentioning it here. By a great writer.
The purpose of automated driving is to monetize the American people. Shoshona Zuboff of the Harvard Business School, among others, has written about that.
Really good comment.......thanks.
JL, I love you.
Two “facts” regarding automated manufacturing returning to the US. First, the incentive of tax free manufacturing elsewhere will no longer lure American companies overseas. So regardless where those companies produce their wares, taxes will be paid here if the company is based here and subsidiaries of foreign based companies like LG will also pay taxes here. More taxes from businesses will generate more tax dollars for infrastructure investment here at home, along with reducing the tax burden of people like you and me. I don’t know about you but when I pay out a higher percentage of my income than a corporation like 3M (corp headquarters about 5 miles from my house; income in the billions) or Best Buy Company (corp headquarters about 11 miles from my house;) I get a little testy.
Second fact is that the US’s environmental standards are high, much higher than many other countries (though below others sadly). That means less air and water pollution produced from the creation of said products here than say those currently produced in Vietnam or even China. And even automated machinery requires maintenance - producing good jobs.
A third benefit that is huge in my opinion is that if the items produced only have to be shipped from Ohio to say Minnesota, then much less carbon will be emitted. That too is a win.
I am now hopeful I will be able to afford to install solar panels on my roof since shipping delays from China will no longer be a factor. As most of us here understand, it’s the climate crisis we HAVE to address. Now.
"So regardless where those companies produce their wares, taxes will be paid here if the company is based here and subsidiaries of foreign based companies like LG will also pay taxes here."
Finally. Tax gimmicks based on a fiction are just eyewink tax evasion. My understanding is if I make money in another country, I owe taxes there AND here, but get US tax credit for foreign taxes paid. That seems fair. But somehow companies move money like the "pea" in a shell game, from country to country, and tax burdens somehow disappear.
Absolutely yes.
YES!!!
The very much needed infrastructure rebuild across the country will provide work at good wages in clerical and management in addition to physical labor. This may require fine tuning immigration as hiring is already difficult.