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I'm kind of morbidly curious just how far off the deep end Trump will go. He's passed the point of no return: every escalation makes him less palatable to everyone, and he has no other strategy.

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Well, I think we can only say such a thing because we're starting to believe he'll actually be prosecuted and found guilty--and that must happen--but there is enormous risk the other way as well. I, for one, will not breath easy until he's placed under house arrest for the rest of his life (for those, like me, that envision him wearing face-matching orange or swinging from a gangarm, this isn't happening. His most likely COA is to be confined, utterly, to Mar-a-Lago the rest of his life and cut off from outside communication. And like a prison boss, it will take about 3 months before the first news story of him trying to conduct secret communications with Rudy and Steve-o). Until he's actually, effectively removed from public life, I will not rest easy one iota.

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Aug 30, 2022·edited Aug 30, 2022

Robert, you (always) write as if you know what you are talking about, and if you are the Robert McTague who comes up at the top of the Google list of Robert McTagues, then I have to assume you do. That said, I would like to know where it is written in the Federal Code that ex-Presidents who have been found guilty of multiple felonies get to enjoy cushy house arrest for the rest of their lives and not die in a maximum security federal pen out in the desert somewhere?

From my relatively safe perch here in Le Marche, rated by Giorgia Melloni (fascistoid leader of the farthest right Italian party Fratelli d'Italia and possible next Prime Minister) as a "model region", it looks to me like the Big Turkey's goose is cooked.

Biden and the Democratic Party are clearly aware that their political base, including us, will not accept anything less than an indictment and trial. Garland would not have sent the FBI to retrieve secret documents illegally kept at Trump's home if he wasn't sure that: A.) Trump has been committing a continuing felony by not returning the docs to the Archives, and B.) that a number of those documents corroborate damning testimony he has been getting from former Trump insiders who are abandoning ship because they don't want to go to jail for the SOB.

I think the DOJ will throw the whole fucking book at him, from obstruction of justice to spying for the Ruskies and other highest bidders to fraudulently pocketing campaign contributions to attempting to interfere with elections and violently overthrow the US Government (call it treason). And probably other stuff none of us knows about yet, and probably crimes he has yet to commit, but surely will, as he doubles down and tries to lie his way out of ... his life.

I have said it before: he will be behind bars or out on billion $$ bail by Thanksgiving.

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I’d love to see him pay the price for what he’s done to our great country. He should be hung for being a spy. But he has a nasty group of followers with the “big” guns and I’m not prepared to see how they retaliate. My dream situation is that he runs like the chicken that he is, deserts his loyal followers. Let them see exactly what a piece of crap he is.

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Aug 30, 2022·edited Aug 30, 2022

If he runs, it will be to the Saudis where there is no extradition treaty. Not that I give a crap, if only his fervent cultist followers would actually FOLLOW him (physically) to Saudi Arabia and get to enjoy the Saudi version of justice (I'm sure they wouldn't like it).

However I believe it's of paramount importance for those of his ilk to observe justice being done and to reflect on their own potential fate should they try similar tricks and tactics. (I know: that is wishful thinking, too.)

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I think, like you, that he will flee. I was just thinking of how utterly insane it is that we are speculating that a former president might flee the country to avoid prosecution for treason, and it isn’t unbelievable to think it.

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Think it because I'm about 90 percent certain it's true.

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ah yes, wishful thinking, like Eliza Doolittle: wouldn't it be loverly?

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Along with Saudi justice comes the Saudi prohibition on alcohol. I don't think the MAGAts would get along well there.

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Trump doesn't drink, but he eats a lot of ice cream.

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How much use would Trump be to the Saudis now?

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No idea. Perhaps they would use him as bait? They seem to have a knack for chopping folks up. But do they fish?

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That's a good one. I'm not so sure about the wishful thinking part and I hope your vision comes true.

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I think we should prepare for retaliation, and I think the National Guard can handle it. Not law enforcement, though, since all law enforcement organizations in the US, from the FBI down to the lowest county sherrif, are dominated by vicious authoritarians and rogue racists. We definitely cannot count on help from law enforcement, but the National Guard has a chain of command and a culture of carrying out orders made by officers in charge, whether the grunts like the orders or not.

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We'll bring him back. He's more dangerous if he flees to Putin. We cannot let him just walk away. There are so many of them that Guantanamo Bay Resort still sounds good to me. Wasn't that Ginni's idea?

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Gitmo is an excellent idea for sentencing. Wherever his incarceration is located, it should be secret. He should just disappear

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At the bottom of a decommissioned ICBM silo in the Midwest would be the best option. If it was secure enough for Alex Krycek in X-Files, it’ll keep the orange stain from spreading.

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They didn't hang the Rosenbergs. They were both electrocuted. For what?

For being convicted of spying on behalf of the Soviet Union, providing the Soviets with top-secret information about U.S. radar, sonar, jet propulsion engines and valuable nuclear weapon designs. The conviction came in 1951, the year I was born. The federal government executed them both at Sing Sing Correctional Facility in Ossining, New York, in 1953.

They were the first U.S. civilians to be charged with espionage against the USA during peacetime.

tfg should be shaking in his boots.

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"Should" is the operative word here. I suspect he still thinks he'll get out of this...

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I wrote a little story in my head halfway through Trump's turn in which I turned him into a peanut. Channeling Beatrice Potter, I conjured up a very hungry squirrel who disposed of him nicely.

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Succinct and on target. Thanks.

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I wonder if he will use Hitler's playbook?

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I'm reading (for the 3rd time) William L. Shirer's Rise and Fall of the Third Reich, so far only up to p. 70 or so. There are many parallels between Hitler's rise to power (as recounted by Shirer) and Trump's, including the use of violence for political ends. One signal difference is that Hitler was intelligent, even a genius, in some ways (evil, to be sure). Shirer quotes some passages from Hitler's Mein Kampf, which Hitler wrote without a ghost writer, I believe, and the writing is clear and even sophisticated. An American military attache' in Berlin who interviewed him described Hitler's conversation as being clear and logical, but fanatical. "Clear", "logical", "genius" are not words to apply to Trump (except "stable genius", of course). Finally, as far as I can tell, Hitler was intent on German hegemony at least in Europe and was fanatically anti-semitic, but his own elevation was a means to that end rather than his primary motivation, whereas personal exaltation seems to be Trump's only motivation. If there are historians out there who can fill in or correct this picture, I'd be interested to hear.

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Right, J. "...personal exaltation seems to be Trump's only motivation..." If only the Trumpers would understand this. He doesn't care one iota about doing what's right for this country and protecting democracy. He's totally unprincipled and says whatever his audience of the day wants to hear to maintain their support and get applause. Got to feed that gargantuan ego. He became a Republican and changed to ultra conservative positions because that was the only way he could win them over. Now he's completely nuts and still the Trumpers hang on. GRRRRR...

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I have the book! When I received the book and lifted it...and saw small print over 1100 pages. I have yet to read page one! After I finish Jesus and John Wayne...I may attempt it... a book length at a time! Congratulation on reading 2 times and beginning again!

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The quotes from Mein Kampf are in English translation, of course, so some of the sophistication may be that of the translator.

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He has been using Hitler’s playbook, get cozy with wealthy right wing business leaders, propagate the big lie relentlessly, grab power with a mob of violent supporters always at the ready, use propaganda constantly( Hitler’s “ peoples radio, Trump’s tweets), promise to restore the nation to greatness, place the blame on scapegoats, have a belligerent hateful even violent outlook, find ways around the constitution and the laws, use your personal charisma to charm the gullible, never back down. But Hitler was smarter and much more astute at politics.

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Aug 30, 2022·edited Aug 30, 2022

Nah. Too chicken.

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Too narcissistic

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Wouldn’t hurt my feelings 😉

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Already is.

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Good morning David! I’d like to add C.) The DOJ recognized the risk to our national security of Trump’s continued possession of those documents.

I hope you are right. But I think, like Robert, that house arrest is more likely than jail, although how one would manage that at a club full of treasonous sycophants and toadies is beyond me. I do enjoy the thought that he might be able to see the golf course but not be allowed to play.

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In order to hold 45 accountable, DOJ has to be confident that the people doing the work it would entail , that is, not just the FBI and DOJ staff, but the Secret Service in the event of a standoff, and the National Guard in the event of widespread insurrection, and for that matter the guys who think sovereign sheriffs have the last word would all have to be evaluated for their reliability and plans would have to be drawn up for various scenarios where individuals and groups within these groups choose to throw in with Trump. Everyone on the right with skin in the game, like Lindsey Graham can be counted on to rile up the rabble. But Trump needs to be stopped here, whatever it takes. I hate to echo Trump’s words, “You’re going to have to fight like hell or you won’t have a country anymore,” so I’ll just say that not stopping Trump here will only encourage those who have been using him to their own ends.

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Interesting last sentence! Made me think a little differently and wonder…took me to thinking of the federalist society. Hmmm…

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Certainly The Federalist Society used him to their own advantage. Dreaming here that Federalists lose this one and face some serious consequences. But that 1.6 billion injection forestalls that.

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Fact: Mein Kampf sits on DJT’s bedside table. 

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Aug 30, 2022·edited Aug 30, 2022

Hi Kathy,

Seriously, I am not aware that house arrest is a form of incarceration we use in the USA. There may be some cushy low-security federal prisons for white-collar crooks guilty of ponzi schemes, etc. (a scandal in itself!), but for multiple felonies including espionage and attempting to violently overthrow the US Government? I should think not. The Italians use it for lesser crimes and for non-violent convicts they do not expect will try to escape, and it can take some pressure off overcrowded prisons, but why should Trump be treated tenderly? And since when has the GOP supported rehabilitation of criminals over simple punishment? According to Google The USA has the world's second highest percentage of incarcerated citizens, slightly lower than the Seychelles. I cannot imagine Trump getting only house arrest unless he wins the next election. Not sure how that would work. Something else to worry about...

Thank you editing function! Lazy me. I googled "house arrest" in the US and discovered it is used with electronic ankle bracelets. Each state is different. Well, sounds too good for Trump.

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Michael Cohen went to Otisville federal prison. I envision something similar. But truly - Trump deserves something much harsher. Yet he may get nothing! We don't know yet. I do love the fact that financially he must be being bled dry with the legal costs.

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Isn't there a maximum security federal prison for traitors, like Leavenworth? That would be truly fine!

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How about ADX Florence, CO? I drove by there once. Not a nice place.

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However, rarely does he pay. I think that may be why he has problems finding good attorneys!

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I just read somewhere that all of Trump's legal fees--until this outrageous shyte-storm--were being paid by the Republican National Committee.

However, the RNC has indicated that they will NOT cover the legal fees generated by this "incident.

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I completely agree that our democracy depends on the notion that no one is above the law. So throw the book at him. I want to see him tried, convicted, and incarcerated. I suppose my expectation is that he will flee somewhere without extradition; Saudi Arabia comes to mind. But I also think he might not have a valid passport besides his official one - that stuff swirling around the DOJ’s taking his passports - one diplomatic, two expired - was odd. Does one need a valid passport to flee into exile?

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How about they simply put him in a straight jacket for a bit? Take the edge off...

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Oh, I didn't know the DOJ had already grabbed his passports. Good! I hope they are ready to put him in preventive detention (even "house" preventive detention) if that is required. Never too soon!

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House arrest isn’t uncommon in the USA.

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Okay, Sandy. Tell me more. Who gets it? How common is it? Does it involve bracelets? Is it punishment or just used as pretrial detention?

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Yes. I am so fed up with this jerk and his whining. Never forget that it was largely due to him that several men were incarcerated for years for a crime they did not commit. What a loser and a destructive on to boot.

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I Apple mapped Seychelles. Zooming in I saw super high end resorts, roads, businesses and such on the main islands. I also viewed other islands showing some development but without ID’s. That led me to speculate some spooky stuff.

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Aug 30, 2022·edited Aug 30, 2022

Well what spooky stuff did you speculate? I've heard they have super- nice beaches.

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First order of business, once settled on his "golden throne", might be that he is required to pay back every single individual he owes, including damages for every slanderous, reputation-destroying lie he has perpetrated against others dumb enough to work for him.

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Good luck with that, though!

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No! No golden throne. Please.

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A 5 gallon recycled lard bucket will suffice, I think.

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Aug 30, 2022·edited Aug 31, 2022

Only referring to his tasteless and ostentatious NYC gilt laden bathroom “chamber pot”. Actually, he only throne he deserves, merely comes in white and is already installed in that cell to which he aspires. But how does a government imprison a past leader, criminal though he may be, after the person has had access to the country’s top secrets? Dicey stuff?? Does he get solitary?

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That's a good one.

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Mar-a-lago is too hard to protect - too many entrances, exits and secret tunnels.

It could not be allowed to be a resort any longer if he is confined there. Then who is paying upkeep?

I understand he owns other property near maralago- perhaps that would be more appropriate.

However, I’m not sure they would consider Florida to be acceptable during the summer. Does he get to travel around? No other spies do.

And no golf

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And look at what we've spent already with the SS trying to secure iit. I don't want that bill forever, when we have perfectly good existing prisons.

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Not suitable for house arrest. He might flee to Russia or SA.

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Why not just put him in a tree house in the hot Florida sun? Sounds like an ideal spot for a former red head.

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David Herrick, I'm with you all the way! Your words " it looks to me like the Big Turkey's goose is cooked" came out of my own mouth last night. Cushy house arrest? No way!

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Damn, Judith, I was hoping to coin that phrase and have it go viral! Guess we're on the same wavelength.

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David, turn it into a meme on CAVA (free) and post on Twitter to all the popular accounts you can find about the boxes or DOJ - I bet it would go viral! Now full disclosure, I am going a bit against my own principles of how to use social media "without snark" but I sure wouldn't mind seeing your hope fulfilled!

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Confession: My words weren't precisely yours, but close enough. Happy to be on the same wavelength.

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By Thanksgiving? Really? Sorry, but he hasn't even been indicted yet, and there is NO indication of when the DOJ investigation(s) will be completed. Grand jury proceedings take time, and even if indictments are handed down getting on a Federal docket also takes time. And then there are procedural issues, jury selection, etc. Not to mention the fine arts of delay in which T's shils are well schooled. I share your wish, but we need to be realistic about how long this will take. Sometime in 2023 seems more like it, and if he really declares his candidacy before the mid-terms all bets are off.

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Granted there is a resistance, in pursuit of holding Dumpster to account for multiple high crimes, to even risking creating the appearance that the party in power is using the Justice Department to squelch the candidacy of an opponent of the other party. But DOJ surely must also be weighing the opposing risk, of appearing to abet the candidacy of a man already publicly demonstrated to have committed multiple crimes against the rule of law, our most important democratic processes, and our national security. They appear to be thinking “Okay, if we are headed for Door #1, it can only be if our demonstrably neutral pursuit of evidence and protection of national security publicly demonstrates that we literally had no other choice but to indict and prosecute.” Hence the excruciatingly painstaking slow pace, mum stance, and occasional statements by Garland that they are following the evidence wherever it leads, and that no one is above the law. Everybody already knows the MAGA extremists will cry politics and threaten violence, and that violence will probably break out again a la Jan. 6. Garland and DOJ appear to have decided on a course of implacable pursuit of the law, come what may. It is the job of the rest of us to ensure that in the upcoming elections we ensure that those who honor the law fairly win our currently still free and fair elections, to keep them that way and to be on deck to enforce the continued rule of law.

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Yes, violence from his MAGA crowd is always a threat “but” it seems trump and his misfit consultants were expecting an even larger violent contingency on Jan 6. The fact that so many of them are now being indicted will possibly give pause to those still out there. Yes, there will be riots and protests and violence but his group is not in the majority. The riots and violence will be a problem but not insurmountable. They will be put down (in my opinion). Weeding out his supporters currently in law enforcement( local, Homeland, and Secret Service) and the US Military will be a daunting task though.

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There will be NO violence.

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Aug 30, 2022·edited Aug 30, 2022

Well said Elizabeth. You appear to live on a planet where rational thinking and fairness prevails. I am not sure I live on such a planet. I have, over the last 6 years or so, seen and heard things that turn truth and reality on its head. That sounds like an understatement because I just don't know how to say it better. I think at this point that DOJ is going too slow. It risks the bad guys running out the clock. May have already happened, with the mid-terms looming now. As for relying on the good guys to do our part in November as DOJ continues to deliberate, I am not very confident, yet. Still too much apathy and naive disappointment to overcome. Losing the House alone is going to be catastrophic. Let alone the Senate. We are in a very vulnerable state right now. Could go either way.

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Hi James. All your caveats are things I have been feeling and fearing for at least a year. I have lost count of how many times I have posted messages on the DOJ website to AG Garland and his IG strongly urging them to indict Trump well before the upcoming midterms. But I am becoming less pessimistic than I was because of recent events - the overturn of Roe has energized Democrats, the Kansas ballot question that would have allowed its legislature to outlaw abortion went down to blazing defeat, the Democrat in upstate NY who ran forthrightly on a woman's right to choose just won his special election which was a surprise, and not only are many political analysts and commentators downgrading their predictions of a red wave to either uncertain or a red mirage, but even Mitch McConnell recently stated that the Republican hope to increase their Senate seats and take the Senate is in real jeopardy due to what he called the "quality of candidates" - code for too many MAGA extremists won their Senate primaries. It is no longer a sure thing that the R's will take both House and Senate, or even just the House. I don't view any of this as certain, of course. We all have to continue to donate where we are able and push ourselves to work as hard as we can on Dem GOTV--voter postcards and letters, phonathons, canvassing, supporting proven local grassroots GOTV organizations in critical states. But I now have hope that if we all pitch in and work hard, we could--*could*--prevail. I hope millions of Democrats share that hope and commitment to doing whatever parts of the work they can do. Despair and cynicism breed inaction, and inaction predicts defeat.

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Aug 30, 2022·edited Aug 30, 2022

Mitchell, you may be right, though we do not know exactly what any grand juries might already be doing. That said, I am not aware that candidates for election at any level are exempt from obeying the same laws as the rest of us. Trump said he could shoot someone on 5th Avenue and nothing would happen to him, but he is too gutless to put his money where his mouth is (thank goodness!), and he knows that might be a bit much for many of his followers. Well, maybe he knows that.... Anyway, it behooves Garland to move quickly!

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I do not know of any law that states that a person seeking public office is immune from the laws that all citizens must abide by. I really never understood the immunity from prosecution that a sitting POTUS has either. I know it is also not a law but a protocol.

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Time for that MEMO to be shredded and a real law put in place that sitting presidents are NOT above the law.

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He just meant arrested following indictment, without any of the subsequent proceedings you refer to. Getting on the docket is automatic upon arrest, at a minimum, for bail-setting, but arrest also triggers "speedy trial" constitutional deadlines that are on the docket.

I tend to agree that Thanksgiving is optimistic, but grand juries occasionally move quickly. That said, however, there are all kinds of obstructive shenanigans a grand jury target can use and we know Trump will use, and each one will take time to resolve, even the ones so meritless that they qualify as bad faith. That doesn't necessarily mean they'll play out the same way in all the cases, particularly in State courts, where judges with overwhelming caseloads are very experienced at moving cases along. They tend to frown upon delaying tactics, not least because each delay requires its own hearing, which adds to the workload. BTW, it's not just the time in court, which is usually 5-10 minutes, possibly 15. The judge has to work up the case the night before, and even total bullshit motions have to have citations to legal authorities.

One interesting possibility here is that judges would be allowed to use rulings from other Trump cases through something called "judicial notice." If Court A ruled against an argument that doesn't involve questions of fact or involves facts that are the same, Court B can "adopt the reasoning" wholesale. There are instances (quite common in federal courts) where a judge issues a ruling without holding a hearing.

I'm a lawyer writing these comments to try to explain the legal issues for anyone interested. I hope they are helpful.

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They are helpful, thank you.

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Thank you, lawyer Berlin.

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Yeah Mitchell I am with you. Unfortunately. Trump and his cronies sure know how to game the system. He will announce candidacy soon if he thinks it will help his cause. Surely - surely - DOJ will not fall for such an obvious move. There will be more - appeal after appeal after appeal. And our legal system, even if it tries to expedite, will take too much time. And time is a factor. The more it grinds on, the more apathy sets in, the more memories get fuzzy, the more the 24 hour news cycle moves on. The perfect example is Crossfire Hurricane - Trump has not seen one iota of justice for all the sh_t he pulled for Russiagate. I am still quite skeptical that we are going to see Trump pay in a way anywhere near fair.

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He has never seen justice for ANY of his shenannigans (including routinely stiffing people who did work of various kinds for him), before, during or after the Presidency. Ironically, he has benefitted from the very norms that he has been doing his best to ignore or undermine. No wonder he's so cynical about "the system" - he's part of it and knows very well how it works.

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In the words of my yiddish mother-in-law: your lips to G-d's ears...

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From you mouth to the DOJ’s ears.

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Because he's an ex-president, he gets security from the Secret Service. That's impossible to provide in a prison, plus the possibility of what his presence in a prison could create, leaves one with the choice of "St. Helena" - in our case, Mar A Lardo.

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Doesn’t his ex president perks go away if he’s convicted of a crime? Surely it would!

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Prisoners are routinely segregated if it's necessary for their safety, so he would never be around any other prisoners. Nor would any other prisoners have access to him. I have no guess as to how the Secret Service would fit in.

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They could always assign the "guys from the New York office".

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Oops! Upon re-reading, I think I had the wrong "guys from the New York office" in mind. I thought you were referring to the Manhattan District Attorney's office.

If I believed in smileys, I'd attach about 20 of the red-face ones.

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What about the little resort the US has in Cuba? Might have to relocate a few enemies of the US to Isreal or Saudi Arabia or Alabama.

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Damn!

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Maralago is too hard to secure. It also would have to stop being a resort and country club, so who is paying for upkeep?

Really, Florence supermax works.

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Kiawah Island Golf Resort, SC with 5-Star accommodations

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Well, all of this by Thanksgiving? That is indeed something to be thankful for in spades. It is on my wishlist. Gobble, gobble, gobbledygook. Put that bad boy somewhere far, far away. Somewhere we never have to see or hear from him or the rest of them ever again. (But, as Camus warned in The Plague, give them another fifty years and they'll be back.)

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But we won't be back. At least I won't.

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Me neither, but maybe we can figure out a way to nip this nonsense in the bud before then to spare future generations the misery of dealing with loose cannons. Now that is certainly wishful thinking on my part, but at least it's not a crime.

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We need to pass "the Trump L:aws" mandating by law with 20-year sentences for conviction, the behaviors that were assumed by the founders would naturally be the way serious people in government would act.

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Actually it's a worthy objective. It's why I participate in this blog. But it will be hard to convince folks to change their ways.

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Hopefully, he doesn't end up in the same place as us!

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David: Of course there is no federal statute specific to ex-presidents. There are federal criminal statutes that apply to everyone, including ex-presidents. Sentences for those convicted vary for both good reasons and bad. Sadly, there is a long history of leniency for those in the upper crust.

As I read his post, Robert was merely expressing his wish and a (possibly sardonic or sarcastic) prediction about the sentence Trump might receive if convicted.

I, an attorney, disagree with him and agree with you. I've never heard of home confinement as a sentence, though I'm not a criminal lawyer. I know it is sometimes used, including electronic monitoring ankle collars, for suspects or defendants out on bail or pending an appeal.

No matter what Trump is convicted of, I'm sure he will be do time. Moreover, for various legal reasons there will be multiple proceedings each with its own punishment, so even if one or two judges are very lenient, it's virtually inconceivable that all of them would be.

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Right on, lawyer man!

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Holy crap David - I certainly hope so. I am not sure where you are getting your confidence from though. DOJ is showing its stripes already by not acting immediately on this Mar-a-lago top secret documents thing. Just like anybody and everybody says - if it were anybody else they would be in custody quite a while ago, in gigantic trouble, where FBI/CIA would be acting first and asking questions later. This is just the latest in a series of unlawful acts this guy has done, and none repeat none of it has resulted in justice. It has all emboldened the forces of fascism in this county to the point where they might just seize power in 2022.

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DOJ may have so many former Trump "associates" trampling each other to get in the door and spill their guts to the FBI that there is some chaos there due to understaffing. I would add that espionage and treason are hard to ignore, and each crime he commits is worse than the last, because he doesn't know how to fold, only double down. Experienced poker players love guys like that, especially if they have deep pockets and lots of dough. He is toast.

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Well said. Thank you.

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I agree with you. And the phrase “ the wheels of Justice grind slowly “ is getting old!

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I agree with you. And the phrase “ the wheels of Justice grind slowly “ is getting old!

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May I dream with you…

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Hope springs eternal.

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Oh, I hope you are right! I too, don't want to see him in just house arrest. He did so little as President, except raise the national debt and downgrade our civil services including the National Security apparatus, that I truly get mad at the kid glove treatment he has already received from the DOJ!

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What about that little resort the US has in Cuba?

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Boy, I hope you're correct.

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Perhaps a life sentence of community service as a municipal golf course caddy.

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Cleaning toilets at a public golf course. As we know, he is familiar with the operation of toilets.

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And the operation of golf courses....he can cheat there too. Oh, Jon.

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That would be utterly ignominious for him-stuck on the course and not being allowed to play!

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Who would want HIM to be their caddy? Unless, of course, that person also enjoys cheating to win at golf. I mean, since nearly 100% of Drumpf's endeavors have failed...why would anyone want him to caddy unless they planned to win by cheating?

Which, when I think about it, is still fairly pointless--but, hey...that's the Dear Orange Leader: winning isn't merely the best thing; it's the ONLY thing, Fred's favorite son could never bear to lose at anything, EVER. Little Donnie still can't bear to lose: not even at a silly and pointless game of golf---how pathetically insecure is that???

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You are right of course, and it might qualify as torture to force Trump to serve others.

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JL, how about JUST a life sentence.....?

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That fits.

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Oh c'mon now. You know once he's indicted his perp walk is going to be Weinsteined (or Cosbyed, not sure who gets credit for that game )

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And it's essential that he not be. While it is certainly not the whole story, I think that the immunizing and unethical blanket "pardon" handed to Nixon was a turning point in total dedication of "Republicans" using the law to obstruct justice.

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It ranked, not that I needed to see some extreme punishment for Nixon; overkill would have strengthened his cause; but that we had to firmly draw a line the people entrusted with extreme civic responsibilities cannot be allowed to cross. We certainly failed on that one.

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I am old enough to remember when Armand Hammer appeared in court in a wheelchair!

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🤣👏

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Robert, I share many of your worries. Far more important to me than seeing "it" held accountable under law, is that we of good intent, turn over every single rock to find out what it is that has made his ("its") persuasion seem to be a worthwhile alternative. I have my theories that have intrigued me for a decade and a half. I really want to see much more inquiry into the possibilities as I don't entirely buy most of the easy narratives that have been propagated. Cheers ! * edit in - I should have said "nearly equally as important than" above where I overly stressed unearthing causes; At this moment, nothing is more important than the actions that prove that 'no one is above the law.' That must be sacrosanct first.

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No one above the law, meaning not one standard of enforcement for the power-deprived and another for the powerful. That how law operates in tyranny, and tyranny festers wherever double standards arise.

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As HCR has stated the most important task that Garland and Biden have is to restore the rule of law. I don’t see how not indicting DJT, is an option for them, not now.

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It's been the DOJ's intended task all along: indict by meticulously collecting clear evidence, flipping the little guys & gals, then the bigger ones, building a solid, unassailable case.

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And what happens to Rudy, Meadows, Bannon, Kushner and all the rest? Lots more to come.

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One of the problems I think, D4N, is that a lot of Americans just glaze over at the sound of the phrase "rule of law." I think lots, in the thrall of some personality or other, just don't get it. As I used to explain to my students, it doesn't just mean that we follow rules established by law - though it does mean that. What it really means is that "The law IS the RULER," not any single person or group. Obviously the Orange Menace* never learned that or, much more to the point, doesn't care a bit, if it stands in his way. * Hat tip for that appellation to Mike Murphy, vehemently anti-Trump GOP strategist, on the "Hacks On Tap" podcast with David Axelrod and Robert Gibbs. Highly recommended!

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Rule of law to most people means that the person who stole the package off the front porch is apprehended or that homeless camps are swept off the streets or that thieves and vandals are in jail. It doesn't mean that death star and his minions are held accountable for the cult.

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As much as I can't stand Bill Maher most of the time, he did a powerful New Rules about Hollywood's obsession with "rage revenge" movies. Forget due process! You killed my wife, so I get to go after and kill you." I'm not saying we blame movies or video games for individual decisions, but I have been in theaters (before I started vetting popular movies for violence that I can't stand) when the "villain" gets it and the hero/heroine is cheered. GOP right wing has gotten very very skilled at riling up that very energy.

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Just finished a novel set in the hills of eastern Kentucky. Revenge abounds.

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Boy does that stir up any stereotypes I have about the folks in the hills of Ky.

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Agree Terry; a thorny "choice" , eyeball attention, etc. Gets thornier the more you consider it.

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"If Aristotle, Livy, and Harrington knew what a republic was, the British constitution is much more like a republic than an empire. They define a republic to be a government of laws, and not of men." - John Adams

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I don’t buy the easy narratives either. Your hinting has me curious. Holding these ideas for over a decade and a half says they keep being confirmed.

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(sssh, but yes; just between you and I, they do get confirmed Michele) Worse, they get adopted and co-opted with flaws at times, wandering off "the thing or things." I hold my peace here most often for a number of reasons; the first being that this marvelous blog we get to exchange on - with limits, is an action of grace by our dear Dr. DPR, whom I shall evermore cherish, making my first rule of behavior to try as hard as I can (given my personality) to restrain myself in a lot of regards. I have an unconfirmed suspicion that our good Dr. may be aware that I could say much more, but that she'd prefer that I not "confuse the choir" so to speak. We've not had that or any such conversation as she deservedly has earned so very many fans who'd love to have her ear. I have wondered, well David... how do you get the 'juice' to be heard ? There is a U.S. Senate seat being vacated in Ohio by Portman (R) in Ohio; being vied for by a _ rumper and Ryan (D). Would I have a prayer in that contest against all that money and juice ? Am I too late as I've dithered ? I sorted out the whole "do I have any chance" question by conceding that actually getting elected is "not" the main thing for me. The main thing is putting my thoughts out there to share among my state and yes national voters that I don't think the mainstream candidates are focusing on - that 'should' be focused on for the sake of "we the people." Allow me to ask you, if a "John Q. Citizen" came out of nowhere in your state, with no big money or political backing - nor media attention, stepped out and suggested some great ideas, would you take him or her seriously and perhaps be persuaded to give them your vote ? (thanks Michele)

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"House arrest"? Guess it depends which crime(s) you think he will be convicted of. If Fanni Willis has her way, he will be behind real bars for long enough to die there. Not sure what Garland will settle for. Not sure if Garland will ever do....anything...

Here is what ought to clear the air - and make things straight up simple like a quality martini. As of January 20, 2021 TFG was a citizen of the US. No more, no less. There is no hierarchical special status in the law about former anythings. To put it into historical perspective - the acid test, perhaps - ask yourself how the founders would have treated a former president who attempted the overthrow of the government they created and risked their lives for.

I suspect at least a few of them would have wanted his head on a pike. Or at least have him returned to the enemy he embraced.

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Respect Garland's "slows." He is treading where no AG of the US has ever had to go before. (Stress on "had to.") He is being very, very careful navigating terrain with no precedent. It's a bit like Obama who, as the fist Black president, was very, very careful never to be "angry Black man" political. His (I'll call them) "calms" often frustrated his party in Congress when they felt he had reason to be much more "out there," politically.

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I hear you. My intellect understands your point. But my emotions and my sense of "justice delayed" don't care. If any other person had been found with top secret documents in his home, he would have been busted a long, long time ago. Treating TFG as a unique individual violates my sense of what America is supposed to be all about.

But...perhaps the AG is enlisting and roping in TFGs cohorts so as to solidify the case and get most of the bad guys in one large snare.

I will attempt to keep my emotions in check. Mostly.

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I know it's hard, but I know you can do it, Bill. If I can, you can.

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💞💞

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According to TRMS there are 300 separate documents, each with its own flavor of malfeasance, treason, or espionage to ferret out. Plus any individuals mentioned therein to question or protect. I think you are right.

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The Founders would have hanged him.

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Or at least someone would have challenged him to a duel!

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Even before noon on January 20, 2021, TFG was “only” a citizen, although that is the highest honor that the nation can bestow. While he was President, Washington was referred to as “the first citizen.” So be it.

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Don’t tell chump

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Park him in Gitmo.

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For...f^&king...ever.

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Let’s get out of Cuba. Park him with one of 2 million prisoners. Let him see what life is REALLY like!.

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House arrest at Mar-o-Lago would be ironic since it will be one of the first places under water from his inaction on the climate conflagration.

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The ocean is polluted now — enough already! 😂

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Cathy I like your thinking. Someone on this letter called it “Mar-a-Loco”. Yes, quite loco.

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I'm partial to Maga Lardo

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Love that. Such an image!!

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Aug 30, 2022·edited Aug 30, 2022

I like Stephen Colbert's name for it as Karm-A-Lago. The karma of having classified and top secret documents there taking him down delights me in every way.

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I love that! Karma-A-Lago….thank god for Colbert!

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Jane, I'm totally a Colbert addict; I can't get enough of him, his writers, and of course his delivery ! You may have noticed that each day the Colbert happens to need to mention _rump, he has a new nickname on each of those days. I so wished I had written some of them down ! Cheers Jane !

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Aug 31, 2022·edited Sep 2, 2022

I too wish I had Colbert's list of TFG's nicknames. Hilarious and creative. The best writers of all the shows. And his Meanwhile segment! I hope Stephen has room for more Emmys. Especially for his live shows following the January 6 Hearings. I have missed Stephen these last 2 weeks. Bad timing for a break. Will miss Jon Batiste, too. But it is my daily addiction along with LFAA! Cheers, D4N!

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My name for that glorified dump is Tsar-a-Loco. Can't remember where I saw it, but it fits.

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I really, really love that nick name. Hope I can borrow it !

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I borrowed it from someone, so I think it should be spread far and wide, especially since death star has a Russian best bro.

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Michele, Perfect for that “dump”, as 45 called our White House. Dump’s dump. Another possible name.

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LOL. Yes. I had forgotten he called the WH a dump while he was occupying it. Probably not full of the tasteless junk he likes to surround himself with.

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Oh heck; it's up to my neck.

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I am with you on this. As long as he is free to continue his misdeeds. I ,too, will not sleep well. I am rather enjoying him trying to use shopworn distraction tactics from his woeful playbook. We the people have been aware of his various smokescreens for years and the mainstream media are not longer hanging on his every word. There is no other way to go about things in that he must be prosecuted. Fascists gain power when they go unchecked. I say do it soon, before the midterms so that he doesn't have time to throw up another legal roadblock or hold another sleight of hand.

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He was raised a crook, with a crook father role model, his daughter married a crook and is one, Melania is an unknown, but she is despicable for her not caring about being best or anything else. His two sons, well, we all know their daddy issues. Their wife and girlfriend are also disgusting. Even Tiffany turned out to be an opportunist sludge. The son Baron (what a name!), well, yet to be seen. So we have got to get them out for good. They see themselves as a “dynasty” and will try to run for office, trade on their name and make a big mess as they already have. Out, out damned spot!

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Plural, spots

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Jeri, can’t “like” your comment. But, yes, spots, really STAINS and cancer on this body politic. What are we gonna do?

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Melania is busy with her own brand of narcissistic enterprise. She is having made images (dolls?) of herself and family for sale on the NFT market. You can't even buy them with real currency. What does that tell you?

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It tells me, Hope, that they are soulless grifters. Can you imagine a doll of those creeps, in your house????

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I do have a cloth Dammit doll of T that helps to calm me down by abusing it against the furniture and other untold things.

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This is such an unfortunate scenario you describe, but it seems to be the logical trajectory. It's hard for me to believe that the whole bunch is so evil or narcissistic. I'm still hoping at least one or two of those you mention will relent of their continued lying. Are they all so doomed to a path of lies and evil?

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Mary, they are all ON the path of lies and evil. Doomed may be part of their karma, but they are fully on that path. Just follow the MONEY. Kushner, one of the most vile of them, got TWO BILLION DOLLARS for his perfidy. I hope they prosecute his rancid ass right into jail. OMG.

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Exactly, Elisabeth!

It’s way past time for Kushner to “best” his daddy’s 2-year prison stint.

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He has a morbidly strange ability to gather the gullible, the uninformed and the ignoramuses around him, almost like some evil sorcerer. I'm in agreement.

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But so many of us ARE uninformed and gullible. We fall for advertisements with the most absurd claims (you will attract women if you use this brand of toothpaste, etc.) while responsible citizenship requires the ability to think critically about complex issues. We need to educate better.

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And that's just part of it. I'm beginning to think that we need to scrap the entire system of government that has evolved to have so many nooks and crannies that a good lawyer can run it like a maze and so corrupted by money that a well-funded crook can lean on it until it breaks.

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Becky, put some thought into what happens when whole systems of government get scrapped. History offers plenty of examples, but France in the late 18th century and Russia in the early 20th are good places to start. In recent years the GOP has been terrifyingly close to being able to call a constitutional convention and rewrite the Constitution. They're not quite as close as they were before the 2018 midterms, but the danger has not passed.

If the entire system got scrapped, those devising a new system would not be Letters from an American readers. The powers calling the shots would be the same powers calling them now: reactionary millionaires and billionaires, aided by a military and law-enforcement that is riddled with well-armed and well-trained right-wingers. It could be argued that the only thing holding them in check now is the system you're ready to scrap.

There's a great and much-quoted scene in Robert Bolt's play _A Man for All Seasons_ that speaks to this. Sir Thomas More is talking with his hot-head son-in-law, William Roper:

Roper: So now you’d give the Devil benefit of law?

More: Yes. What would you do? Cut a great road through the law to get after the Devil?

Roper: I’d cut down every law in England to do that!

More: Oh? And, when the last law was down, and the Devil turned round on you – where would you hide, Roper, the laws all being flat? This country’s planted thick with laws from coast to coast – man’s laws, not God’s – and, if you cut them down – and you’re just the man to do it – d’you really think you could stand upright in the winds that would blow then? Yes, I’d give the Devil benefit of law, for my own safety’s sake.

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I understand, but I am not yet concerned with how. It is hard to view a problem clearly and decide what should be done to solve it if at the same time you are plotting how to accomplish that. For now, these are separate problems. I think that we have not really considered what we want fundamentally, what is important and necessary. We’ve only tied ourselves in knots trying to make the best of a broken system, applying patch upon patch, wasting our time, attention, and resources, and in the meanwhile slowly dying. There will be a time to consider what you say, but first I want to get really clear about what is important and what is just mud.

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What if we started over. Does good government have to be so complex? I think most people would feel that above all it needs to be fair. The Golden Rule is universal: Do unto others as you would have others do unto you. Even children understand fairness. Can a government be built up from there? Can we make our organizations and our laws and all our interactions straight enough and and clear enough to be obvious even to a child?

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Becky. You are a revolutionary. However first: Get rid of guns, greed, anger, violence, lust, gluttony, rascism, and yes, we can start over. Until those evils are expunged from the human heart, we are doomed as a species. Sorry to be so pessimistic. Just seems to be our trajectory.

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Yes, I agree -- too many nooks and crannies. Needs tightening up, for sure. A criminal pays for his/her crimes, period.

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And lest we forget how many of the gullible were indoctrinated with the Russian disinformation that helped get him elected to begin with...

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Becky, seems we have a serious “Pogo” problem.

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no accident that critical thinking skills are NOT taught

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With less propaganda. Rupert rules the fools

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Aug 30, 2022·edited Aug 30, 2022

Well and nicely said!

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Family members who only watch Fox will never pull away from tfg and will support his "victimhood" if he is indicted. It breaks my heart.

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I think the descriptive you are reaching for is basket of despicables.

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Deplorables

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No, I think "despicable" is the proper designation. 'Deplorables' is not descriptive of the pack of rats and scum that follow and/or worship the dumpster fire.

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Lol .... Peter forget about any run for Pres after that identifier ! I'm just sayin', it's been done and didn't prevail.

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I sit corrected!!

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You forgot “opportunists”??

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I always had a comedic type vision of him sharing a padded cell with Putin. Cell block roomies. Just as a humorous mental picture. Together forever.

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I like the picture of him and Rudy locked up together. Who would kill the other first?

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They’d be too busy dying their hair to kill one another.

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Can't like this, but LOL, the best so far this am.

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Wondering what finished hair color one would get if Rudy's black dye mixed with orange ?

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I think you are right, Wsj. Just too damn busy……do they allow hair dye in prison?

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In west Africa, some dyes contained a certain golden natural substance.

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Perfect!

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I can just see Rudy’s teeth oozing out of his huge mouth, with 45’s grubby little paws squeezing the life out of him. OMG.

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Even though it would be painful, I'd pay to see that, Elisabeth...morning!

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More likely neighboring dachas in the Moscow suburbs. Or wherever Russians put dachas. And if not Russia, then another non-extradition country. If exile was good enough for Napoleon, it's good enough for FPOTUS.

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Aug 30, 2022·edited Aug 30, 2022

Let’s not forget North Korea, given that he and Kim Jong Un have declared their love for one another.

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Spooky, that visual is really scary: the love for one another part…..omg.

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Yes Spooky ! Bosom buddies right ? Till the first disagreement, then _rump gets strapped to missile ..

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lol Denise !

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