I think it didn't matter how America pulled out, it would be disastrous. I think that's why Trump didn't pull America out during his first term, figuring it would cost him the 2020 election for sure. I think it's pure horse manure Republicans and MAGAs and the right-side media blaming Biden for what was inevitable. Perhaps this will tea…
I think it didn't matter how America pulled out, it would be disastrous. I think that's why Trump didn't pull America out during his first term, figuring it would cost him the 2020 election for sure. I think it's pure horse manure Republicans and MAGAs and the right-side media blaming Biden for what was inevitable. Perhaps this will teach America a lesson about getting into wars in foreign countries?
There was no easy way out, there was only trying to control chaos. Have we finally learned the lesson we can't bend nations to our will with our military? Had all that money just gone to humanitarian purposes like schools, hospitals, etc. we'd be so much better off as a world.
How about all that money going to provide every American good, inexpensive health care? How about all the dead, maimed, wounded battle-shocked American soldiers still being alive and well? How about their families and friends not being all torn up and mangled in their souls? Did America learn nothing from Vietnam? The exit from Afghanistan seems much more horrific.
All war is horrendous, this one seems worse by proximity. Casualties in Vietnam totaled 58,000 with 40,000 in combat. The plight of the wounded depended on the quality of their local VA, that is if they could get to one. The American people learned a lot, as did the government and military but not enough to avoid the longterm mistakes in Afghanistan and Iraq.
Advancements in medicine and technology kept fatal casualties low in the most recent war for members of the military, not so much for the civilians who became victims of Isis or the Taliban or of sterilized drone attacks.
My hope is we've finally accepted the U.S. cannot create a democracy by military force. Instead we need to use that money for humanitarian pursuits that can set the stage for a country to create their own form of democratic government.
Again, I think the many billion$$$ spend by America on the Afghan war should have been spent improving the lives of Americans, starting with affordable good health care. I am not against foreign aid, but I think the American view that it is called to spread democracy is, well, a bit ... ambitious? ... conceited?
After all, America is not a democracy, is it? At least not in presidential elections. Not in gerrymandering voting districts. Not in a defeated president attempting a coup and not being arrested and tried and hanged for it. But I drift off the topic.
I fault Joe Biden for voting, as a Congressman, for the 2 Bush-Cheney wars. I do not fault Biden for trying to finish the deal Donald Trump made with the Taliban. America very much needed to get out of Afghanistan long before now. It was new President Barack Obama's God-assignment to get America out of those two wars, and he accepted the Nobel Price for Peace instead.
The Vietnam war was a false flag war. America wanted access to Vietnam's rubber plantations and other natural resources. The CIA was in Vietnam helping Ho Chi Minh defeat the French. Ho wanted to do business with America, but America asked too much. Not caring for China, Ho turned to the Soviet Union. Along the way, two prominent Americans, who didn't like America being at war in Vietnam, were killed. John F. Kennedy and Martin Luther King. Kennedy's Democrat Vice-President Lyndon Johnson promised Americans on TV that he would never send American boys to die in a war in Asia, then he did just that. His Republican President successor Richard Nixon got elected on a platform he had a plan to get America out of Vietnam. His plan was to build up the South Vietnam military and then pull out American troops. I give Nixon credit for getting America out of a war that never should have happened.
Afghanistan is a very different country from Vietnam. It is MUSLIM. Very conservative MUSLIM. It is tribal. It is ancient. It astounds me that Americans, their presidents, their generals and admirals actually thought the American military could change Afghanistan. Thought an Afghan military based on the American model would survive an American military pull out. Look no further than what happened in the false flag Iraq war after President G. W. Bush announced America had won.
America was in a global war with a RELIGION, which viewed Christendom as infidels.
The American right is screaming about a lot of U.S. Military hardware being left in Afghanistan. Well, how much of that hardware was in the hands of the Americanized Afghan army, which rolled over and made a deal with the Taliban? How could any American be surprised that happened? How could any American general or admiral be surprised that happened?
Big American corporations made a great deal of money off the Vietnam war, and off the Iraq and Afghanistan wars. The longer those wars lasted, the more money those big American corporations made. There was longtime dream of a natural gas pipe line being run from east of Afghanistan to the Arabian Sea. After Trump was elected in 2016, he said the natural resources of Afghanistan and Iraq, minerals and oil respectively, should be monetized to repay America for what it spent on war in those two countries.
There really is such a thing as karma. It really does increase when it is ignored. Consider the Afghan refugees President Biden is bringing to America during an international pandemic. Will that be a super super spreader event? How many of those refugees are Taliban, Isis, Al Qaeda sleeper agents?
2. It is Republicans who want to disable the social safety net
3. America is supposed to be a democratic republic but thanks to court packing even that is in question. It was never going to be a pure democracy but we use the term to indicate it's preferred to be governed by a majority of the people.
4. The refugees will be vetted for terrorists and Covid at the same time, we can do two things at once.
5. The hardware was meant for the Afghan army that folded b/c Trump negotiated with the Taliban and not the govt. Much was destroyed but obviously not enough. The hardware was the reason for the war as part of the never ending cycle of contributions by the military industrial complex to members of Congress and Presidents who get us into wars.
Karma works both ways. The Taliban started the whole mess by harboring al-Qaeda which led to 9/11 which led to the invasion that took out the Taliban in Afghanistan. Now the Taliban is back. How interested will they be to repeat the same mistake. They got what they wanted namely to be back in power, now karma is making it much harder than before for them to run the country. The need international support but can't get it if they return to their former ways.
Meanwhile, let Americans not forget that the Saudi Osama bin Laden was an American ally fighting with the Afghan resistance against the Soviets. Osama was an American ally until his home country, Saudi Arabia, allowed American and other Coalition forces station in Saudi Arabia, prelude to driving Saddam Hussein's Iraq army out of Kuwait. Saddam had polled the American lady ambassador re how America might feel about Iraq taking part of Kuwait, which Irag felt was par of Iraq? The lady ambassador said America would not object. Imagine Saddam's later surprise to be betrayed by his friend, the American president, we today call Daddy Bush. Saddam and Iraq were longstanding American allies. A buffer against Iran. Daddy Bush ignored Ross Perot's plea not to go into Kuwait. Perot said Iraq would sell that oil to America. That's what started this entire mess.
You make very good points. It will be interesting to see how far the Taliban are willing to compromise their traditional ways to get infidel money that allows them to run Afghanistan :-). It will be interesting to see if infighting breaks out in the Taliban. However, I confess that I am a lot more worried about what is going on in America, where I and my children and their families live, than I am worried about what is going on in distant Afghanistan where America never should have gone in my opinion. I don't see how any American could think the land war invasion of Afghanistan would work out good for America. Perhaps if America hires the Mossad to screen all the Afghan refugees, that will weed out most of the radicalized Muslim sleeper agents? :-) Can the Mossad weed out refugees infected with Covid-19? Should the refugees and returning Americans all be separated and quarantined before being allowed into public America?
I share your fears, but I'm more fearful of the American Taliban that stormed the Capitol on Jan 6th. They are here now and planning attacks right under our noses.
I live in a very diverse neighborhood with many immigrants. I'm both happy and sad to report they are some of my best neighbors. Happy because they have come here with nothing, worked hard and have bought homes and are paying taxes. Sad because there are other neighbors who descended from immigrants but speak and act hatefully towards their new neighbors.
I have total confidence in our system now to root out the bad guys. That is one lesson learned from the mistakes made with the one-way Saudi pilots from 9/11. That's why the process takes so long. The one's getting in now must have been in the pipeline long enough to be cleared. The rest are being staged in other countries around the world.
For the record immigrants repay in taxes multiple times more than the aid they received from the federal government to come here and get settled. I'm happy to have everyone of them, we need more people to stay competitive.
I'm soon 79. White Alabama native, I live in an old urban apartment building with other whites, blacks, browns. Asians, Indians, Middle-Easterners. We seem to all get along but for a couple of whites who have trouble getting along with anyone at times, nothing to do with their politics or religion.
The white American Taliban and their Ayatollah are one reason I came off the sidelines, reluctantly, and voted for Joe Biden. The other reason was Biden was at least talking about trying to save the planet and Mother Nature from humans. I can imagine the planet and Mother Nature rooting for Red China's bioweapon to save them from humans.
I have huge difficulty accepting rank amateur small aircraft Arab pilots were able to precisely navigate huge commercial airliners on 9/11, after which America was locked down but important Saudis were allowed to leave. I read reports of seasoned American airline pilots, who regularly few such large American commercial airliners saying no way rank amateurs could have navigated the 9/11 aircraft as they did.
The white American Taliban mob on Jan 6 represented a far larger white American Taliban mob, which had waited a long time for a leader they could rally around publicly.
I think it didn't matter how America pulled out, it would be disastrous. I think that's why Trump didn't pull America out during his first term, figuring it would cost him the 2020 election for sure. I think it's pure horse manure Republicans and MAGAs and the right-side media blaming Biden for what was inevitable. Perhaps this will teach America a lesson about getting into wars in foreign countries?
There was no easy way out, there was only trying to control chaos. Have we finally learned the lesson we can't bend nations to our will with our military? Had all that money just gone to humanitarian purposes like schools, hospitals, etc. we'd be so much better off as a world.
How about all that money going to provide every American good, inexpensive health care? How about all the dead, maimed, wounded battle-shocked American soldiers still being alive and well? How about their families and friends not being all torn up and mangled in their souls? Did America learn nothing from Vietnam? The exit from Afghanistan seems much more horrific.
All war is horrendous, this one seems worse by proximity. Casualties in Vietnam totaled 58,000 with 40,000 in combat. The plight of the wounded depended on the quality of their local VA, that is if they could get to one. The American people learned a lot, as did the government and military but not enough to avoid the longterm mistakes in Afghanistan and Iraq.
Advancements in medicine and technology kept fatal casualties low in the most recent war for members of the military, not so much for the civilians who became victims of Isis or the Taliban or of sterilized drone attacks.
My hope is we've finally accepted the U.S. cannot create a democracy by military force. Instead we need to use that money for humanitarian pursuits that can set the stage for a country to create their own form of democratic government.
Again, I think the many billion$$$ spend by America on the Afghan war should have been spent improving the lives of Americans, starting with affordable good health care. I am not against foreign aid, but I think the American view that it is called to spread democracy is, well, a bit ... ambitious? ... conceited?
After all, America is not a democracy, is it? At least not in presidential elections. Not in gerrymandering voting districts. Not in a defeated president attempting a coup and not being arrested and tried and hanged for it. But I drift off the topic.
I fault Joe Biden for voting, as a Congressman, for the 2 Bush-Cheney wars. I do not fault Biden for trying to finish the deal Donald Trump made with the Taliban. America very much needed to get out of Afghanistan long before now. It was new President Barack Obama's God-assignment to get America out of those two wars, and he accepted the Nobel Price for Peace instead.
The Vietnam war was a false flag war. America wanted access to Vietnam's rubber plantations and other natural resources. The CIA was in Vietnam helping Ho Chi Minh defeat the French. Ho wanted to do business with America, but America asked too much. Not caring for China, Ho turned to the Soviet Union. Along the way, two prominent Americans, who didn't like America being at war in Vietnam, were killed. John F. Kennedy and Martin Luther King. Kennedy's Democrat Vice-President Lyndon Johnson promised Americans on TV that he would never send American boys to die in a war in Asia, then he did just that. His Republican President successor Richard Nixon got elected on a platform he had a plan to get America out of Vietnam. His plan was to build up the South Vietnam military and then pull out American troops. I give Nixon credit for getting America out of a war that never should have happened.
Afghanistan is a very different country from Vietnam. It is MUSLIM. Very conservative MUSLIM. It is tribal. It is ancient. It astounds me that Americans, their presidents, their generals and admirals actually thought the American military could change Afghanistan. Thought an Afghan military based on the American model would survive an American military pull out. Look no further than what happened in the false flag Iraq war after President G. W. Bush announced America had won.
America was in a global war with a RELIGION, which viewed Christendom as infidels.
The American right is screaming about a lot of U.S. Military hardware being left in Afghanistan. Well, how much of that hardware was in the hands of the Americanized Afghan army, which rolled over and made a deal with the Taliban? How could any American be surprised that happened? How could any American general or admiral be surprised that happened?
Big American corporations made a great deal of money off the Vietnam war, and off the Iraq and Afghanistan wars. The longer those wars lasted, the more money those big American corporations made. There was longtime dream of a natural gas pipe line being run from east of Afghanistan to the Arabian Sea. After Trump was elected in 2016, he said the natural resources of Afghanistan and Iraq, minerals and oil respectively, should be monetized to repay America for what it spent on war in those two countries.
There really is such a thing as karma. It really does increase when it is ignored. Consider the Afghan refugees President Biden is bringing to America during an international pandemic. Will that be a super super spreader event? How many of those refugees are Taliban, Isis, Al Qaeda sleeper agents?
1. It was Republicans who put us there
2. It is Republicans who want to disable the social safety net
3. America is supposed to be a democratic republic but thanks to court packing even that is in question. It was never going to be a pure democracy but we use the term to indicate it's preferred to be governed by a majority of the people.
4. The refugees will be vetted for terrorists and Covid at the same time, we can do two things at once.
5. The hardware was meant for the Afghan army that folded b/c Trump negotiated with the Taliban and not the govt. Much was destroyed but obviously not enough. The hardware was the reason for the war as part of the never ending cycle of contributions by the military industrial complex to members of Congress and Presidents who get us into wars.
Karma works both ways. The Taliban started the whole mess by harboring al-Qaeda which led to 9/11 which led to the invasion that took out the Taliban in Afghanistan. Now the Taliban is back. How interested will they be to repeat the same mistake. They got what they wanted namely to be back in power, now karma is making it much harder than before for them to run the country. The need international support but can't get it if they return to their former ways.
Meanwhile, let Americans not forget that the Saudi Osama bin Laden was an American ally fighting with the Afghan resistance against the Soviets. Osama was an American ally until his home country, Saudi Arabia, allowed American and other Coalition forces station in Saudi Arabia, prelude to driving Saddam Hussein's Iraq army out of Kuwait. Saddam had polled the American lady ambassador re how America might feel about Iraq taking part of Kuwait, which Irag felt was par of Iraq? The lady ambassador said America would not object. Imagine Saddam's later surprise to be betrayed by his friend, the American president, we today call Daddy Bush. Saddam and Iraq were longstanding American allies. A buffer against Iran. Daddy Bush ignored Ross Perot's plea not to go into Kuwait. Perot said Iraq would sell that oil to America. That's what started this entire mess.
You make very good points. It will be interesting to see how far the Taliban are willing to compromise their traditional ways to get infidel money that allows them to run Afghanistan :-). It will be interesting to see if infighting breaks out in the Taliban. However, I confess that I am a lot more worried about what is going on in America, where I and my children and their families live, than I am worried about what is going on in distant Afghanistan where America never should have gone in my opinion. I don't see how any American could think the land war invasion of Afghanistan would work out good for America. Perhaps if America hires the Mossad to screen all the Afghan refugees, that will weed out most of the radicalized Muslim sleeper agents? :-) Can the Mossad weed out refugees infected with Covid-19? Should the refugees and returning Americans all be separated and quarantined before being allowed into public America?
I share your fears, but I'm more fearful of the American Taliban that stormed the Capitol on Jan 6th. They are here now and planning attacks right under our noses.
I live in a very diverse neighborhood with many immigrants. I'm both happy and sad to report they are some of my best neighbors. Happy because they have come here with nothing, worked hard and have bought homes and are paying taxes. Sad because there are other neighbors who descended from immigrants but speak and act hatefully towards their new neighbors.
I have total confidence in our system now to root out the bad guys. That is one lesson learned from the mistakes made with the one-way Saudi pilots from 9/11. That's why the process takes so long. The one's getting in now must have been in the pipeline long enough to be cleared. The rest are being staged in other countries around the world.
For the record immigrants repay in taxes multiple times more than the aid they received from the federal government to come here and get settled. I'm happy to have everyone of them, we need more people to stay competitive.
I agree.
I'm soon 79. White Alabama native, I live in an old urban apartment building with other whites, blacks, browns. Asians, Indians, Middle-Easterners. We seem to all get along but for a couple of whites who have trouble getting along with anyone at times, nothing to do with their politics or religion.
The white American Taliban and their Ayatollah are one reason I came off the sidelines, reluctantly, and voted for Joe Biden. The other reason was Biden was at least talking about trying to save the planet and Mother Nature from humans. I can imagine the planet and Mother Nature rooting for Red China's bioweapon to save them from humans.
I have huge difficulty accepting rank amateur small aircraft Arab pilots were able to precisely navigate huge commercial airliners on 9/11, after which America was locked down but important Saudis were allowed to leave. I read reports of seasoned American airline pilots, who regularly few such large American commercial airliners saying no way rank amateurs could have navigated the 9/11 aircraft as they did.
The white American Taliban mob on Jan 6 represented a far larger white American Taliban mob, which had waited a long time for a leader they could rally around publicly.