You engage is a great deal of stereotyping here. It's convenient to think of them as a homogenous, contemptible bunch, but it's neither truthful nor kind.
You engage is a great deal of stereotyping here. It's convenient to think of them as a homogenous, contemptible bunch, but it's neither truthful nor kind.
David is actually not that far off the mark, Reid. I am SURROUNDED by these people and I'm reminded of it every time I go out and have to interact with these folks. Where I live voted over 71% for Trump. I especially love his line about the 4x4s. Every friggin' day I drive anywhere around here these mega-gas-guzzling behemoths--that almost are big enough to merit their own zip code--are everywhere. The damn things are a nuisance on the road and almost always they are the ones speeding, riding right on your butt, or cutting you off. They've become the new HumVees--remember those? They were a right-wing status symbol down here. Again, come down here to one of the reddest parts of one of the--until recently--reddest states in the country. Covid regulations have been openly defied here--in the pharmacy my mom uses not ONE pharmacist or employee has worn a mask during the entire pandemic. You'd think they would be conscious of the risks. I'd be curious here to see the percentage of noncompliance getting the vaccine in these parts. It must be pretty high. These ultra-red pockets DO exist in this country, and my guess would be you could find it in eastern Washington state too. It's very real.
I am not arguing these folks don't exist and have spent considerable time among them (I'm even related to some). What I AM arguing is that painting them all with such a broad brush is not useful or accurate, in fact, the dismissiveness of such characterizations is counterproductive. Think of it the other way around. Many of them assume we are all tax and spend liberals with a socialist agenda who want to give their jobs to immigrants and their money to Black people. But we are a diverse group with a wide range of opinions and beliefs. As you can see here, some of us are more concerned about immigration than others, some about taxes or deficits or inequitable distribution of tax-supported assistance. They have a similar diversity of opinion and experience.
You don't need to go all the way to Eastern Washington to do that. All you need to do is drive outside the city limits of Seattle or Olympia. Lewis County (to the south of Seattle on I-5, 1/2-way to Portland, OR) has been ultra-red since at least 1919, when a still-disputed encounter between local chapters of the American Legion and the IWW resulted in 6 deaths and ongoing division in Centralia over who did what to whom. As housing costs in King and Pierce Counties has sky-rocketed, the influx of more liberal-minded retirees to Lewis County has changed the political scene to a slightly bluish red, but the stereotypical still fits pretty well.
I can attest to Bruce's narrative. I'm in a northeast Atlanta suburb, and it's pretty conservative, but nothing like Bruce's area. The populace is rabidly conservative there. Marjorie Taylor Greene lives not very far from that area. Reading Bruce's posts these many months, and knowing his approximate location, I can assure you that what he is saying is not an exaggeration. It will eventually change, I think, just as my area has over the years, but if you're living in the Pacific Northwest, you really can't judge the rural Southeast. There are many people who are liberal, many who are intellectual, but that is not the majority, and unless you have a lot of experience here, you just can't assume that the population is being painted with the same brush by an elitist. I know that you didn't say that, but diversity in north Georgia isn't a thing - yet.
Perhaps the stereotype fits better in some communities than others. As I read that second paragraph, it felt like a perfect description of my neck of the woods. I don't presume to know what the 51% "looks" like in other neighborhoods, towns, or cities, but that's an apt portrayal of the people in my own town (especially the part about the 4X4's - only here they are often festooned with Confederate flags attached to all four corners of the back of the truck...it's actually a terrifying spectacle...you might have seen some of these vehicles on the news when they attempted to force Kamala Harris' campaign off the interstate?) One only has to scroll through the local FB "hate page" from my town and read a few of the (mostly illiterate) angry comments to get a feel of our version of the 51%. I know this is not kind. By and large, these individuals themselves are not kind and their anger is palpable and frightening - plus they open carry and don't wear masks and attack those who do wear masks. Just my two cents from my little corner of the world.
Oh, yes, I know they exist; I'm even related to some! I mostly fear we risk underestimating these folks as well as alienating them further. If this truly is a culture war with no common ground, we may as well give up now. But I don't believe this.
I have spoken of two Trump voters I love (an uncle and a best friend) and know of at least two others (whom I love, in-laws) and none of them fit this stereotype. I donтАЩt doubt the experiences of David or Bruce. My uncle is educated, wealthy, worked in insurance, served in the army, drives a sedan, lives in a town house, is 80, and hates Biden and Harris. He has no black friends, is afraid of black and brown people. Knows some gay people but still believes homosexuality is тАЬwrong.тАЭ My friend is 53, a gay man, a Master Gardener and landscape architect who has worked for missions rebuilding schools after natural disasters in the Virgin Islands. Grew up wealthy but is personally poor. My in laws are a retired detective and airline gate agent, one with a graduate degree the other a high school diploma, in their 60s, well off, racist in ways they donтАЩt recognize. None of them fly confederate flags or drive hogs or carry weapons. They all watch Faux News and ONLY Faux News. I wish it would disappear.
Well, yes, it is stereotyping. It is difficult to even discuss these things without some resort to generalization. No doubt, not all of the 51% of Republicans (Annette's statistic, not mine) believe all of what I attribute to them. A few of them may drive electric cars, some are probably not armed to the teeth and I'm sure most of them love their children.
My intent is not to dehumanize them but simply to acknowledge that their opinions of me - and, I imagine of most of the of the people who post comments here - are a mirror image (in negative) of our own. They have their info sources, we have ours, and these Republicans are as horrified about what sort of America we want as we are about the America they want. I believe the contrast between positions is now so stark that there is little hope of anyone convincing anyone, and that any solution will come by way of the vote and new laws that have a positive effect on the lives of most Americans, including GOP true believers and Trump fanatics. It is still possible to have majority rule in the USA if all adult citizens can vote freely and easily. I think that's the best we can hope for at the moment.
You engage is a great deal of stereotyping here. It's convenient to think of them as a homogenous, contemptible bunch, but it's neither truthful nor kind.
David is actually not that far off the mark, Reid. I am SURROUNDED by these people and I'm reminded of it every time I go out and have to interact with these folks. Where I live voted over 71% for Trump. I especially love his line about the 4x4s. Every friggin' day I drive anywhere around here these mega-gas-guzzling behemoths--that almost are big enough to merit their own zip code--are everywhere. The damn things are a nuisance on the road and almost always they are the ones speeding, riding right on your butt, or cutting you off. They've become the new HumVees--remember those? They were a right-wing status symbol down here. Again, come down here to one of the reddest parts of one of the--until recently--reddest states in the country. Covid regulations have been openly defied here--in the pharmacy my mom uses not ONE pharmacist or employee has worn a mask during the entire pandemic. You'd think they would be conscious of the risks. I'd be curious here to see the percentage of noncompliance getting the vaccine in these parts. It must be pretty high. These ultra-red pockets DO exist in this country, and my guess would be you could find it in eastern Washington state too. It's very real.
I am not arguing these folks don't exist and have spent considerable time among them (I'm even related to some). What I AM arguing is that painting them all with such a broad brush is not useful or accurate, in fact, the dismissiveness of such characterizations is counterproductive. Think of it the other way around. Many of them assume we are all tax and spend liberals with a socialist agenda who want to give their jobs to immigrants and their money to Black people. But we are a diverse group with a wide range of opinions and beliefs. As you can see here, some of us are more concerned about immigration than others, some about taxes or deficits or inequitable distribution of tax-supported assistance. They have a similar diversity of opinion and experience.
You don't need to go all the way to Eastern Washington to do that. All you need to do is drive outside the city limits of Seattle or Olympia. Lewis County (to the south of Seattle on I-5, 1/2-way to Portland, OR) has been ultra-red since at least 1919, when a still-disputed encounter between local chapters of the American Legion and the IWW resulted in 6 deaths and ongoing division in Centralia over who did what to whom. As housing costs in King and Pierce Counties has sky-rocketed, the influx of more liberal-minded retirees to Lewis County has changed the political scene to a slightly bluish red, but the stereotypical still fits pretty well.
I can attest to Bruce's narrative. I'm in a northeast Atlanta suburb, and it's pretty conservative, but nothing like Bruce's area. The populace is rabidly conservative there. Marjorie Taylor Greene lives not very far from that area. Reading Bruce's posts these many months, and knowing his approximate location, I can assure you that what he is saying is not an exaggeration. It will eventually change, I think, just as my area has over the years, but if you're living in the Pacific Northwest, you really can't judge the rural Southeast. There are many people who are liberal, many who are intellectual, but that is not the majority, and unless you have a lot of experience here, you just can't assume that the population is being painted with the same brush by an elitist. I know that you didn't say that, but diversity in north Georgia isn't a thing - yet.
Perhaps the stereotype fits better in some communities than others. As I read that second paragraph, it felt like a perfect description of my neck of the woods. I don't presume to know what the 51% "looks" like in other neighborhoods, towns, or cities, but that's an apt portrayal of the people in my own town (especially the part about the 4X4's - only here they are often festooned with Confederate flags attached to all four corners of the back of the truck...it's actually a terrifying spectacle...you might have seen some of these vehicles on the news when they attempted to force Kamala Harris' campaign off the interstate?) One only has to scroll through the local FB "hate page" from my town and read a few of the (mostly illiterate) angry comments to get a feel of our version of the 51%. I know this is not kind. By and large, these individuals themselves are not kind and their anger is palpable and frightening - plus they open carry and don't wear masks and attack those who do wear masks. Just my two cents from my little corner of the world.
Oh, yes, I know they exist; I'm even related to some! I mostly fear we risk underestimating these folks as well as alienating them further. If this truly is a culture war with no common ground, we may as well give up now. But I don't believe this.
I have spoken of two Trump voters I love (an uncle and a best friend) and know of at least two others (whom I love, in-laws) and none of them fit this stereotype. I donтАЩt doubt the experiences of David or Bruce. My uncle is educated, wealthy, worked in insurance, served in the army, drives a sedan, lives in a town house, is 80, and hates Biden and Harris. He has no black friends, is afraid of black and brown people. Knows some gay people but still believes homosexuality is тАЬwrong.тАЭ My friend is 53, a gay man, a Master Gardener and landscape architect who has worked for missions rebuilding schools after natural disasters in the Virgin Islands. Grew up wealthy but is personally poor. My in laws are a retired detective and airline gate agent, one with a graduate degree the other a high school diploma, in their 60s, well off, racist in ways they donтАЩt recognize. None of them fly confederate flags or drive hogs or carry weapons. They all watch Faux News and ONLY Faux News. I wish it would disappear.
Well, yes, it is stereotyping. It is difficult to even discuss these things without some resort to generalization. No doubt, not all of the 51% of Republicans (Annette's statistic, not mine) believe all of what I attribute to them. A few of them may drive electric cars, some are probably not armed to the teeth and I'm sure most of them love their children.
My intent is not to dehumanize them but simply to acknowledge that their opinions of me - and, I imagine of most of the of the people who post comments here - are a mirror image (in negative) of our own. They have their info sources, we have ours, and these Republicans are as horrified about what sort of America we want as we are about the America they want. I believe the contrast between positions is now so stark that there is little hope of anyone convincing anyone, and that any solution will come by way of the vote and new laws that have a positive effect on the lives of most Americans, including GOP true believers and Trump fanatics. It is still possible to have majority rule in the USA if all adult citizens can vote freely and easily. I think that's the best we can hope for at the moment.
Well said.