TROLLS from FSB MOSCOW: A Brief Counterintelligence Study in Open Forum
When I told my wife what I was up to this morning, conversing with Russian trolls, she discouraged me in no uncertain terms from continuing to engage. Her quote, which she coined from her days in political activism, “If you roll around in the mud with pigs, you get d…
TROLLS from FSB MOSCOW: A Brief Counterintelligence Study in Open Forum
When I told my wife what I was up to this morning, conversing with Russian trolls, she discouraged me in no uncertain terms from continuing to engage. Her quote, which she coined from her days in political activism, “If you roll around in the mud with pigs, you get dirty, and the pigs love it.”
"Don’t engage” is her message. A victory, in their view, is any engagement, that's the other part of the message.
However since Substack is my 1st SM forum, I am getting initiated here and hence this investigation.
During my round trip to the clinic and back home, getting my 2nd vaccine, I was reflecting on our “disinformatsiya” friends who are living and working in Moscow. Curious juxtaposition, to be sure, vaccination and FSB. What I am learning:
(1) Today’s (April 29, the HCR 4/28 Comments section) troll group is from the FSB in Moscow and is actually associated with the Kremlin. Curiously, he/they volunteered that information. Sometimes I can recognize when someone is telling me the truth even though they pretend to be contemptuous and mocking. It has a very distinct feel to it.
(2) They insist on attempting to hide their identity, even when their Russian govt. agency status is obvious. (Not too bright.)
(3) When pressed, they begin to tell the truth, couching it as “ridiculous” or “hillarious.”
(4) They have a rapacious appetite for engagement: clearly what they are paid to do.
(5) The purpose of engagement is to spread propaganda and to gather information for their propaganda-generating machine. We on HCR are being stereotyped here as “Liberals” (capitalization is theirs, we must be a designated category in their official propaganda system) and they are engaging in order to infiltrate and influence. (Good luck with that, chumps)
(6) They change the subject because they are not paying attention to the discussion topic. I think they probably live in their email, like a fisherman with several lines in the water, waiting for someone to post a reply and then pouncing. Because they are multitasking, impossible to carry a discussion or even a coherent argument.
(7) One particular troll is an actual human being, the one from an early HCR April 28 post from Friday morning, soon after TPJ's Troll Patrol post. He was hurt and insulted when I said he was not acting human, a ploy possibly, but I sensed an actual owie. I think he interpreted my statement as saying that he was inhuman, and perhaps that is what I was implying. Since then, I have seen fake attempts at appearing hurt, but at least one of the accusations of not being human landed. (It helps when a real human is confronting a phony internet handle.)
(8) Reading TJ’s excellent piece, which I am re-posting here, my suspicion is confirmed that multiple FSB employees operate through the fake handle.
(9) These guys are robots in human form. Somewhere in there, in all that phony bullshit, lurks a real Russian with a heart and a soul. It is to that Russian I direct my comments.
(10) Being transparent about my low opinion of their intelligence and their humanity, btw, is producing dividends. They might still be the GRU, but who cares. My consistent mention of GRU squeezed the words “FSB” out of them, so perhaps there is some interagency rivalry at play here. **An opportunity for a counterintelligence operative, yes that means you, you are now being recruited as a member of the Mission Impossible team, to inflict a little needling and teasing.
To engage, or not to engage. That is the question. Well, they are still humans after all, even if they are woefully lost in crazy-land. Obviously the “Not Engage” camp has a super strong argument.
So if you choose to engage, have a clear purpose. Up until now, my purpose has been to do what one guy in the Leon mask referred to when he said “thank you for the olive branch.” Remember, opportunities in Russia are severely limited. The country has prosperity issues, big ones. Maybe one of these guys dreams of having a job where he can be a real human, instead of a robotic apparatchik spouting drivel. At least one of these guys may well start admiring America by virtue of what he sees and hears on HCR. Compassion shown is never wasted, imo. This FSB handle (fake identity) is my only direct link to Russia. We can have a reverse influence which can insidiously trickle back to them, call it Mission Impossible or the Counterintelligence of Love Dept. Who knows what effect these conversations are producing in the actual Russian puppets working for the FSB. Underneath the day job still lies a human.
In every aspect of life, the objective is to establish and maintain a position, an attitude, which agrees with your principles. In other words, to face the new object from a place of integrity.
Not Engage: Excellent choice.
Engage: Do so cautiously, with clear intent, and remain firmly in your power. Targeted posts. Continual engagement not recommended, unless we operate as a tag team, like they do.
Now a repost of TJ from a few hours ago.
P.S. On my drive home from the clinic, I got a clear hit that this is a rapacious larger operation, not a sole operator. I continue to see images of streets and buildings in Moscow, and once in awhile, I am reading one of their posts and I am actually seeing the Russian perspective pretending to be non-Russian. Anyway, mounting quantities of visual intuitive evidence.
[begin TJ post]
TJ:
Not to beat a dead troll or anything, but after watching this little Mr. Leon drama unfold for some time now I vacillate between two possibilities. On the one hand I can’t shake the feeling that this specific figure “Leon” might well be who he claims to be which makes him a kind of accidental troll who has just consumed too much right wing media in Canada or the US and now he is unwittingly parroting Putin’s talking points. In my limited reading about the Russian troll farms I understand that they have different teams assigned to target different groups using entirely different playbooks for each. With the MAGA-nation the goal might be to feed the hate, but with groups such as the literate and generally progressive readers of this blog the strategy is different—infiltrate slowly, develop a brand and bonds, foster loyalty before sowing seeds of dissension and doubt. The Russians are masterful propagandists. We should never underestimate their sophistication. Which leads me to my second speculation. I did notice that some of the linguistic peculiarities “Leon” demonstrated in earlier replies seem to have suddenly vanished in later comments. The aggression/latent sadism was suddenly dialed up and grammar and mechanics improved. Even the idiom is a bit different later on. Perhaps this is a second shift Leon or a floor supervisor stepping in to distract from the concerted efforts of those attempting to out foreign influence. I have zero interest in feeding trolls, neither the ones working for the ruble nor their sad North American dupes working for free, but I do find the discussion of the problem in general incredibly important and worthwhile because once again our openness and gullibility is being exploited. I really appreciate those of you patrolling for the trolls because you help us to remain aware that we are absolutely under attack by a foreign nation savvy enough to exploit the unhealed wounds of a civil war. It is important not to engage them too deeply though because once it’s clear they are not open to genuine dialogue further engagement just allows them to repeat their talking points.
My understanding is that the role of trolls is to spread disinformation and provoke responses. Trolls rise and gain value in their organizations, groups, or intelligence orgs, based on the number of responses they provoke and can continue to engage. Not responding to a troll is an effective way to deny them power. If a comment seems inflammatory, particularly, you can be certain that it is trolling for comments. The longer a troll can keep someone engaged is a measure of their success. Many "trolls" are just programmed, intelligent bots. Do not feed them.
I’ve learned that if you respond when someone posts disinformation on social media you cause it to be seen more. In other words, because you responded, the algorithm in the software causes the disinformation to appear in more feeds. So, not responding is a good idea. (I’ve been doing some social media monitoring and and I thought this was an important thing to know.)
I've read that a person's response reveals an emotional reaction to the post. The more emotion the troll can stir up, the more points the troll receives. If no one responds, no points.
I agree. Engaging with a troll involves the same emotional dynamics as sensationalized journalism, sexualized advertising, trash talking, hate mongering, and/or trump talk. It's bad enough with a contrarian. The trolls are really nefarious.
They think their billionaire friends can protect them. Above the law. This is a signal we are in Oligarchy. Will Rogers, two legal systems. “Only the The poor break laws.”
On that note, allow me to explain why I did not begin my "Trolls from FSB Moscow" post with an apology for being off-topic. Republicussians, as TPJ put it. Putin and Trump are partners. Has there been any more glaring and hideous spectacle in U.S. history than the 2 of them hosting a joint meeting in Helsinki? Putin has put so many Republican lawmakers in his back pocket that I have lost count. There is the July 4 trip, JULY 4, that a group of Republicans made to Moscow to give obeisance to their master and benefactor. You can believe Putin was gloating, he snaps his fingers, and the trained dogs come running, on the day of supposed American independence. Putin's minions have saturated America, including the Republican Party, so we owe it to ourselves to educate ourselves about Russian FSB et al activities, especially when they show up here.
If you aren't familiar with the basics of the Putin-Trump-Republican Party orgy, I recommend Greg Olear. He has written a book called Dirty Rubles, he posts extensively about that subject and many others, and he is one of the 3 places I hang out on the internet.
Fasten your seat belt, the level of criminality and depravity can be shocking.
This Putin story in particular is revealing and gut-wrenching. Must know information. Warning: take good care of yourself before, during, and after reading this.
Protection in high places. For Ron Johnson it’s the Devos’ billions. Am way dies a ton of business in Russia. The Devos have billions in Russian banks from Amway profits in Russia. Ever meet a Russian woman with out make up? In a way, the Devos are in the Putin oligarch club. There, I said it.
I'm sure you are correct. That club includes Moscow Mitch, all the July 4 members of Congress who took that trip to Moscow, Agent Orange of course, and probably the entire sedition caucus, or most of it anyway. Well, not oligarchs or plutocrats exactly, but who cares how much money they have, we know who owns them.
“Having trouble fundraising for your right wing campaign? Well, here at the NRA, we can help that! We can get all the funding you need from x, and thanks to Citizens United, nobody needs to know who X is!” Wink Putin wink.
I have limited time in the morning to absorb HCR’s columns, and I really look so forward to everyone’s comments. Thank you to everyone for taking the time to explain so much, and for your recommendations.
This exercise you undertook to flush out the trolls is fascinating. But I couldn’t help but wonder if one might take the bait if you were to ask for their favorite borscht or pirozhki recipes? 😁. Have a beautiful day, thank you and keep up the good fight!
LOL! Good one! Another thing I do whenever I have to call for support help for tech gone haywire and the voice sounds like something from the bottom of the barrel, is to ask how the weather is and ask about the time. I know this is mean, but call centers are EVERYWHERE these days, including right there in Moscow.
What are talking about? There's nothing mean. It's human to connect with other humans. I have been on Call Center calls with India, the Philippines, and elsewhere, discussing all manner of non-business related topics, when I have the time and the inclination, and when the service worker has the time and the inclination. I could write an entire article about my relationship with the AmEx India call center, it's fascinating.
TPJ, having read your illuminating and generous thoughts here for many months now, I was beginning to worry that you might be perfect. You seem to know everything. And you’re so nice! Such a relief to find out you’re a flawed human like the rest of us. A person who doesn’t like beets is still evolving :) But no worries, it’s clear you’re going in the right direction! Keep shining your light, except please keep quiet about beets. Re: everything else—write on!!
Thank you Adker, that's kind. I definitely do not know everything, but have managed to reduce my ignorance here and there.
But wait -- disliking beets is a flaw?? Full disclosure: I never cared for beets but occasionally ate them .... Until one day ... my never-vulgar father said that the best thing about them was that ... they made his urine turn red. Now when beets are in sight, there's that image and it's "no thanks."
I followed the vitriol-filled Leon yesterday in some bemusement. It really surprised me how much he got under the skin of the group which normally packs up and disposes of trolls with wry derision.
I am a naïf, it seems. It never occurred to me that this could be infiltration by a team of professionals. I don’t dispute the point - I have no experience with this sort of activity. I thought he was just a rather persistent sort of gadfly with his own personal axe to grind.
In any case, today’s post by Heather marking Biden’s first 100 days is a marvelous antidote for poison. For me this was Heather’s most brilliant piece yet. In fact, as I read it I thought at one point that it had a valedictory air to it - that somewhere in it, perhaps at the very end, Heather would announce that she had completed her work in this forum. I well remember her writing some time ago that she didn’t know how long she would continue, but perhaps it would be to the end of Biden’s first 100 days.
Blessedly, my antennae was jammed or my wires were crossed - pick an analogy. Heather goes on. She is moving mountains, day by day, as this group grows and grows.
The one point I’d make today is this. Heather referred today to a poll showing that 77% of Americans approve of the American Recovery Act.
My thought is this: obviously some of those, many in fact, are Republicans. Many are Trump voters.
Some of this subset are certain to be feeling caught between a rock and a hard place. Do they continue to look back and bask in the glory days of the Magaverse? Or are they being pulled forward and looking at the seriously practical and beneficial world that has at least started to unfold under Biden/Harris?
Anger propelled many Trump followers. “Owning the Libs” was delightful sport. Until it wasn’t. Anger fades in time, especially when there is no propulsive force to maintain and manage it. And we go days without thinking of Trump now.
The Big Lie is getting harder and harder to push with a straight face - and energy. The Cyber Ninjas are inspecting the Maricopa ballots for watermarks? Seems dubious, but...whatever. But now they’ve abandoned that idea and are looking at the ballots “kinematically”, for special folds that will reveal the diabolical genius of those who conspired to cheat Trump out of victory. Surely that will work...
Many people are looking at the federal landscape and seeing the utter bleakness, the complete paucity of ideas, the chicanery and in-fighting of today’s Republicans.
They will watch, as we will. And they will vote in 2022 and 2024. Some will certainly vote reflexively for their Lauren Boebert or Marjory Taylor Greene. But others will realize that to do so is to bite the hand that feeds them.
It’s my belief that we are at a huge turning point. An op-Ed writer in the Globe and Mail yesterday, one with dozens of years of experience, opined that Biden’s first 100 days have been as consequential as any President in the last century. A few hours later I saw the scare headline (HuffPost maybe?), “Are the Democrats going to be slaughtered in 2022?”.
My bet is no. As Biden himself said this week, “Never bet against America”.
I might amend that to “Never bet against America when they have one last chance to stop screwing up.”
But we are at that point now. The siren songs of the last several years sound not so seductive now. They are beginning to sound cacophonous and discordant.
Unless this administration badly screws up, I think that it is going to exert a quiet but strong gravitational pull back to sanity. Lawyers, judges and actively-engaged citizens will subdue the crazies. Lots of people are going to jail for their sins and momentum against thuggery will become decisive.
Thank you Heather. I was very inspired by today’s article.
Eric, your writing is always thoughtful and balanced. I'm betting with you - unless Biden really drops the ball, my guess is that his approval rating will hold at the polls - in '22 and '24. The road will be peppered with minefields, but other than the MAGA faithful, I believe most of us are tired of fighting and anxiety-filled dreams. Perhaps the best thing that could have happened was the removal of the Trump megaphone on Twitter. Having said all of this, we mustn't relax or lose vigilance. We must do what we did in the '20 election, and not assume that the threat is past.
(11) They actually respond to a post that mentions trolls! Why do I find that so amusing? They know they’re trolls?! They don’t protest, they accept it and respond to it!! I’m sorry that’s just downright entertaining. What a bunch of chumps. Acting is not their strong suit. They suck at it.
So when TJ says they are master propaganda artists, I am holding my belly and gut laughing.
According to Janjamm's reading, these 'tools' (they are our opponents tools to me) win points when interacting with subscribers and when they receive emotional reactions from us.. Roland, you and other subscribers are feeding these propaganda tools, so they keep coming back. As a result our forum is being crowded, in my opinion, with crap. How does this relate to the information and issues Heather raises or the issues raised by subscribers? How does it discourage somewhat shy subscribers who would otherwise exchange with questions and ideas? I don't think that the 'tool' material provides a welcome opening to the this forum. In my opinion, the magnetism to 'tools' is, perhaps, getting out of hand.
Hello Fern, it's good to see you. Of course I agree with all the points in your statement.
I am learning here. Many of you are already well acquainted with the FSB (or the GRU, whoever they are). In my very long piece, hidden inside, I say that Substack is my 1st social media forum. I have not been on FB and Tw and elsewhere. So this is all new to me. I trust my wife implicitly, she says don't engage, then that is probably what I will eventually do. So far I have engaged maybe 8-10 times. Each time, I have learned a great deal. I'm not naïve. I have not let them suck me in to their meat-grinder, so each time one of them has made a few kopecks off me, it has come at a cost. I'm learning the rules, learning about their operation and how it works. And when I finish the learning process, trust me, I will use their game plan against them. I'm a very creative guy.
Roland, yes: be careful because there are operatives out there who are doing more dangerous stuff as well, but it sounds like you're having fun. So go for it! I am dealing with eastern European fake Academia "colleagues" (they don't seem to exist and the institutions they claim to be part of do not have them listed as faculty in their websites) who have been stealing my books, scanning them, and then posting them on Academia. I discovered this when one was tagged into my email as something I "might be interested in reading" as it relates to other work I have published or posted on Academia. This is a common situation for folks who publish--the Russians and the Chinese routinely break copyright laws--but I suspect that this is a tactic that comes from me using my real name on this platform and in other sites.
You know, I deliberated long and hard about whether to use my real name on Substack last summer. TPJ and TC might be the smarter ones here, because if I could go back, I would revisit that decision. Fortunately, I don't have much published here, I could lose it and start over, wouldn't be a real problem. I might have to do that, you never know.
I can't say I am having fun. When you play with fire, sometimes you get burned. I am providing a service to all of us, but I am also putting my ass on the line. I am doing this out of a sense of duty. The smarter play would probably be to just walk away from this risk, and it is definitely a risk. Last night, upon posting, I realized I might have to prepare myself to dump my email and substack accounts, and start over. This ain't no walk in the park. I am digging pretty deeply here. Putin is not someone to be messed with lightly, and its him and his minions running this show.
I use my moniker because in another existence I am more well-known by name, and I don't like that getting in the way of things at places like substack.
Yes, I understand. I know who you are from an admission you made elsewhere, you know the one. Your decision makes perfect sense. However, despite your unrelated motivation for using a moniker or "handle," the perhaps unintended consequence is that you are protecting yourself in ways that I am not as protected. Being a target of the Russian govt. is not advisable. Anyway, right now I am just doing one day of troll counterintelligence. I should be ok. But I know from experience that opening a door to the dark side can have unexpected and unhappy consequences. I am thinking out loud here, thinking to myself, not that you necessarily care. If I ever go further, unlikely as that is, I would find a way to protect myself more effectively.
Actually, I care and I am sure others do too. You've done a good deed by alerting the community to what was going on, so I think you can sink back to as much anonymity as you can, with us now knowing 'do not engage the FSB trolls." Thank you for that.
Thank you TC, very kind of you to say that. After the day before, with the Leon FSB team, I was sitting on too much information just to keep it all to myself. Knowledge is power. I care a lot about this place, and everyone in it, and it pisses me off when those ratf---ers screw with us. I want maximum firepower directed as these a$$holes and the $hitbox who is their ultimate leader, so the more we all know, the better.
It’s ubiquitous now. They focus on swing counties in swing states. How do they know? Paul Manafort gave them the “sensitive polling data”. We are in a cyber war, and we are missing bad!
Good morning, Roland and happy day to you! Intense post my man and one that fills me with glee and hope! Today will be a don’t engage with tRolls day for me. It is good to see the choices clearly, tomorrow who knows. ❤️ to all who read this thread. May your day be peaceful.
Roland, I went back and read yesterday’s Leon thread, which had grown considerably from my early morning read. I think your analysis today nailed it. A couple of things stood out for me. One, a Canadian would never say “our government” when referring to the US, which Leon says, a lot. Two, the vitriol of some of his responses was startling to say the least. Three, when you read them and look for it, the grammar and spelling mistakes of a non-native speaker are glaringly obvious. Nothing wrong with being a non-native speaker, but why deny it? Finally, and the part I don’t understand at all, is why here? What are they trying to achieve?
Yes, but why? To what purpose? To sow discord? To change people’s minds? To promote a false narrative? This particular audience isn’t really susceptible to that, so I still don’t understand why.
Did you notice how effectively IT managed to draw the conversation AWAY from HCR's letter of the day? I literally had to scroll down pages of off-topic tomfoolery (there' a new word for you, IT. Look it up) to find the original discussions and follow the contributions of those who were seriously trying to stay in a legitimate discussion ON TOPIC.
Kathy 100%. The goal is to divide, destabilize and weaken America. LFAA is a real challenge, given the high level of education and accomplishment among subscribers (yes, that's immodest). Maybe the Kremlin will award the Cross of St George to "Jack O'Lantern" for yesterday's less than Stalingrad-like "achievements."
TPJ, I just got a pass today from my horse trainer blogger that it's more than ok to be immodest over my accomplishments. I'll pass it along to you and all the subscribers on this page!!
Roland, thanks for this info. I am in your wife's camp, 'Don't engage'. This is garbage to me, taking up far too much space on the forum and the little time that I take the to read this stuff, it boils down to absolute nonsense or a psycho-ward show, if you go in for such entertainment. Why after all this time does this continue to interest you? I see able subscribers wasting their precious time with these tools. That is what they are here to do. Is there no better use of our time? REALLY???
Thanks, Roland. I agree with your wife. Don’t engage. For anyone thinking about engaging, please look back at the comments of our community here. Several of our friends here wouldn’t even read comments that day because of all the “bad juju”. Enough said.
Don’t Fight the same enemy to often. They learn from you and that can make them stronger, less detectable to other less deserving Americans. Don’t give too much insight into your touch points and pysche.
Thank you ted, that is really an excellent point. I’ve had to think about what I’m willing to disclose. When engaging, obviously you have to be acutely aware that you are engaging with an enemy. Don’t give them free ammunition. But this is an open forum, so we have to talk to each other too. So it’s tricky.
Roland, I was very happy that you liked my comment listing the reasons for not engaging the 'trolls', who I call 'tools'. They come here to divert attention from our objectives and to spew propaganda. The tools earn points when they engage us, thus we have become a rich site for messing around. More of them come and they come more often. It doesn't amount to censorship to simply ignore them. Thanks, Roland.
You’re welcome, Fern, and thank you for your perspective. Again, I’m probably sounding repetitive, but I’m figuring out for myself how to engage a hostile entity. I don’t like being a victim, I like being in my power, and as you’ve seen I encourage others to do the same, in whatever arena. Educating myself is the first step. Trust me, I’m not going to be bringing this up very often, if at all. I’m just in the middle of a brand new (for me) learning process. When engaging a hostile, it helps to know as much about them as possible, and to assess your own armament and resources. By doing a “troll information dump” today, I am eliciting comments to educate myself. Knowledge is power.
If it were up to me, in a perfect world, we would have an information resource section available here to catalog everything we know about this hostile. That would allow newcomers to educate themselves, and it would allow us to continually add new things we’ve learned. For now, I’m absorbing everything everybody has said.
FOLKS THIS IS THE LAST DAY OF THE MONTH FOR CONTRIBUTIONS TO CHARLES BOOKER RUNNING AGAINST RAND PAUL. CHECK HIM OUT TO MAKE A CONTRIBUTION IF YOU CAN.
Charles Booker info@e.charlesbooker.orgHide
Charles Booker
Fern, I’m about to ask once more for a little help. But I hope you’ll hear me out for a second on why I’m asking before I get to that part.
First, I have to say I’m so grateful for y’all. When you think about running for office, it’s an emotional process. You’re throwing your whole self into it. You’re putting your family into it. The stakes are high and everything is on the line. So it means everything to me that we’ve barely just launched our exploratory and already we’ve had more than 10,000 people donate.
Knowing that so many people want to see us make a run for it against Rand Paul, that gets me fired up. But that’s not the only reason I’m asking you to donate before tonight’s end-of-month deadline. Let me explain real quick:
For starters, this is our very first deadline — tonight at midnight. The politicians and pundits want to know if we can raise enough money to run a big campaign if we go for it. I want to be able to show them we can.
Second, the Senate is 50-50 and Kentucky is in play. We’re one of the only states with a Democratic governor and two Republican senators. I know we could win, and just imagine what that would mean for our whole nation.
Grassroots is the only way to win. I can’t win if I run alone. That’s the truth. The only way we transform Kentucky and this country is by building a broad-based grassroots movement. And that starts with everyone joining in — yes, even by making a donation.
I'd like to send him to India to volunteer at a hospital in Calcutta.
For mr. Rand to say such stupid sh*t on the regular is one thing, but to continue to offer false assurance about natural herd immunity is too much for me. Much of mr. DT and mr. Scott Atlas false claims of herd immunity has been disproven in India, and now the victims and dying of Covid there are those 20 to 60. Previous exposure is no protection to a coldly cruel and clever mutating rna virus. (I know mr rand has never studied virology, if he did he is more stupid than he looks!)
But its not just the UK strain ripping India apart. There are also now new variants and new variants sure to come from such explosive growth of the disease. This thinking or "Not thinking" from Mr. Rand Paul and others has put not just Indians at risk. Such dumbfuckery continues to put ALL of us, even the vaccinated at increased risk if or when the new Indian variants reach our shores.
And so, as long as Mr. Rand runs, Ill be donating to any an all of his opponents. "hey Rand, go **** yourself!"
Ted, These are crimes against humanity we are hearing about and seeing. It combines rage with pain in me, while far away from India and South America...I live in NYC, so I'm not, so, so far away: at least 1 in 256 have died here, a total of 32,513 deaths, probably more. Going to several hospitals to deliver gowns, including the one in Elmhurst, Queens, last April, is not appropriate writing material at this time.
Yes. Yes they are indeed. There is an PhD public Health/epidemiology at the University of Michigan. Her stats/models say that Undia is 3 to 5x worse/higher than reported. India is to poor. Health care infrastructue lacking. Something like only 13 icu beds per couple million.
India is also too autocratic. US, Brazil, India are 1-2-3 globally in Covid-19 deaths, the vast majority coming under tyrant wannabes 1/45, Bolsona$$hole, and Modi. (Sorry, no insulting name for him yet.) The pattern shows that autocrats routinely divert essential resources elsewhere, and do not care about all their citizens.
I know this is another ploy on their part, but Leon makes an entirely valid point when he suggests that we have a tendency to label as a troll anyone who vociferously disagrees with us. I agree, though, that distinguishing between the two is a fool's errand, so it's a dilemma.
How do you suggest replying to someone who has expressed views, opinions, or is prostituting's false facts antithetical to democracy & common sense, with a lack of good faith and disrespect towards humanity? Sometimes being overly polite is not what is required to defend democratic ideals. Not always, but sometimes.
Yes, there is clearly appropriate anger. What I have seen on this forum, though, is that the best of those who are here tend to respond with facts and persuasion and demand the same from their interlocutors. It's not always easy, especially when the opinions stated are provocative, but it seems to me the most effective response. For one thing, it makes clear who the irrational person in the conversation is; the contrast can be stunning.
Thanks! I have both a wry sense of humor and strong opinion and have been repeatedly cast as a troll here. It's very sad to see folks here gang up on others and it makes the group less intellectually appealing than what it could be. But what you state, above is key: "anyone who vociferously disagrees with us.".
There shouldn't be an "us" when it comes to disseminating ideas and information unless it's propaganda. Particularly if folks expect to be taken seriously as free thinkers.
Oh, I don't know, I think there is a place in society for like-minded people to gather for solace. Feeling that there is an "us" and that we largely agree about things is very comforting, especially in a world that has become hostile to much of what we think should be true. I don't think it's propaganda; an echo chamber, perhaps, but not propaganda. I sometimes feel very lost and hopeless in this world and this group helps.
Early on, on Facebook, Dr. Richardson commented that this was part of her motivation for LFAA - to create a community of support for each other. She succeeded, spectacularly.
Someone mentioned yesterday that she might stop writing this because she only promised to continue to do so for Biden's first 100 days. Especially as a newcomer here, I was surprised at the grief I felt (and continue to feel) at that possibility. I hope it's not true.
She's been an anchor in a storm for me since I first started reading her last summer. The storm of the GOP is still raging, though it's lost a lot of its strength.
I doubt she stops writing to us, maybe just the frequency. The process has been as transformational for her as for us. Once transformed there is no going back.
I vote for what you say, ted. If I had to guess, I'd say she is a bit pleasantly surprised at the cognitive level of most folks who subscribe to her Letters.
Noting the repeated 2AM postings or later, Ive often worried about what personal toll this may be taking on HCR. Profoundly grateful for it, but also feeling slightly guilty for never wanting her to stop writing in this manner.....
Toll or energizing? What would it mean to democracy if the world had a million more Heather Cox Richardson’s? Making sense of the political events of the day with historical perspective necessary for understanding & meaning is the definition of teaching. And teaching’s ultimate goal is to teach people how to learn and teach themselves, and then others. Teaching is a form of transforming leadership. The ultimate goal of leadership is to create more leaders. The real urgent question is, “What will we do with all we have learned here?”
You said it best. She is a transformational leader. Of course, what we do with it is up to each one of us, but comprehension of the larger picture inspires confidence to engage. Hence our gratitude. And engage we must....
I think this platform has grown more than HCR had considered, initially. Oddly, folks can reach more minds as internet influencers than college professors.
Amazing! There is a deep emotional component here for HCR, and among us all. These letters are revolutionary. I m just reminded of RFK, “our new connectedness”.... finally our humanity has caught up to the technology. There won’t be stopping this type of mass comms for learning, sharing, discussing and reflecting. This is truly where the power lies in a democracy.
LFAA is an affirmation of how forge comunity over the internet.
"This is a Day of Affirmation – a celebration of liberty. We stand here in the name of freedom.
At the heart of that western freedom and democracy is the belief that the individual man, the child of God, is the touchstone of value, and all society, all groups, and states, exist for that person's benefit. Therefore the enlargement of liberty for individual human beings must be the supreme goal and the abiding practice of any western society.
The first element of this individual liberty is the freedom of speech; the right to express and communicate ideas, to set oneself apart from the dumb beasts of field and forest; the right to recall governments to their duties and obligations; above all, the right to affirm one's membership and allegiance to the body politic – to society – to the men with whom we share our land, our heritage and our children's future." -RFK
Lynell, thank you for asking ❤️ I am doing ok. Finished my seven weeks of chemo and radiation two weeks ago, and am healing. I will need a surgery in a few weeks, but don’t know yet how complicated that will be. I tolerated treatment really well, and we are hopeful. I’ve ridden (my old horse, not the new spicy one!) twice this week which gave me an enormous amount of joy. Spring is helping, too - it’s lovely to see the world greening up.
Hi Kathy. I didn't know you have serious health issues and I'm sorry to hear it. Tanti auguri per una ripresa rapida! I have planted 12 dry peas in 3 pots overlooking the Marche countryside where Spring has really sprung in the past few days. The peas are a gift from a friend whose friend is an archaeologist who has recently been digging around in ancient gravesites in Egypt. The immediate ancestors of these peas were harvested more than 2,000 years ago and sat in a ceramic jar all these years until the archaeologist planted a few. Surprisingly, they grew, so he kept a few of the offspring to give away. They were quite shriveled up and nearly black in their tiny box, but I noticed yesterday that one had sprouted, and this morning it is already 2 cm tall. I hope the others will sprout too, but in any case these are now known as Kathy's Egyptian peas. I'll let you know how it goes.
David, that is the coolest thing ever! I’m honored. I have some old seeds from a mirabilis jalapa (marvel of Peru) plant I harvested a few years ago from a plant at our long time rental in Sardegna. I think I will plant them and call them David’s Marvels if they grow!
I read somewhere that someone with terminal cancer was planting bulbs in the fall that he wouldn’t live to see bloom. Not that I think I’m dying; I don’t! But I’m determined to live each day with that kind of attitude. Not everything about a cancer diagnosis is bad. My marriage is stronger than ever, our children are incredibly supportive not only of me, but also of each other (which hasn’t always been true of them!), and our friends fed us splendidly for two months during which we didn’t cook a single meal. We are surrounded by love and caring, and that brings strength. I feel very at peace and in a good place, and while I’m terribly tired, I feel fairly well otherwise. Mille grazie.
Mirabilis jalapa (Bella di notte in italiano) are beautiful flowers. We had tons of them growing around the house we rented in Asmara for three years. They could fill up a naked flower bed in no time and even encroached on my vegetables. Thanks so much for naming yours after me!
Best Wishes for you and your treatment. That is a wonderful attitude to have and I'm sure it will help you recover more quickly. Feeling love and support is such a blessing.
You know, the connection of our HCR forum men here, and their abilities to communicate their emotions and wit and humor ripples out to all of us. Our world needs many more men like we find here.
Thank you for expressing your intelligence, inquiry, respect (usually), and genuine kindness for one another and for other members here. It is like a healing balm for what is going on out in the world of Yin and Yank.
High Fives for all this good news! Especially having ridden. Nothing like tried and true (or tried and know what's under you!) Hang in there with the new spicy one. You'll get there, I'm sure. Let me know how it goes.
Kathy... I am so sorry that you are going through this... I've started writing to you about it, but...it is so hard thing to fine the right words. It's awful. I went through it, but not as severely as you are I will keep you in my heart, but I sense that you are going to kick cancer's ass!
Life changing... I don’t think anything was ever the same, but it would be impossible to explain to most people. Not radically, but just different. I was at launch of my (third round in the game). I had two dynamic careers, and I thought I had pulled all my experience and knowledge and knew how to launch a serious movement to make a real serious change... I had just gotten back from my second safari, I was so passionate about my photography and our elephants. I was so determined. This had been building for years! And suddenly, my legs were cut out from under me. It was so dramatic... it was the best I had felt about my life and what I could accomplish. I was just 64, and never even thought about my age, so irrelevant. I was ready to charge full force forward and do anything and everything to affect change. But, I was ‘down’. For about 2 years. Blurry boundaries on that.... slowly I re-emerged, and tried to re-ignite my life and my goals. I was physically weaker, 2 years older, and then came covid. So, in a few weeks I will be 70, and I’m not sure what I will be able to resurrect? And how to create a new vision, and move forward. I refuse to ‘kick back’ and just take life in... I truly need to be producing, providing, pursuing.... you know?!
Oh, I agree on so many levels! I was poised to achieve something special, and then the rug got pulled out from under me. I don’t know yet if I’ll be strong enough to do it still. The thought of pursuing my passion in a lackadaisical fashion just doesn’t thrill me, but it’s better than not doing it at all. The prognosis for my type of cancer isn’t very good, although I’m ignoring that as best I can. But at the same time, that stuff just doesn’t seem to matter very much. It’s such an odd place. I wouldn’t wish it on my worst enemy.
Sorry for confusion, Roland; "park the truck" is meaningless, just a throwaway remark.
Ellie Kona posts the HH email address regularly. I'm new to it, so not yet comfortable sharing the email without approval. But this turns up with a search: https://groups.io/g/heathersherd
My one HH Zoom shows that people there respect privacy, but also foster openness. Real names are used but kept confidential. They can share contact info with each other securely. That seems like a good way connect directly without public exposure.
Afternoon, David. Ellie Kona posts the HH email address regularly. I'm new to it, so not yet comfortable sharing the email without approval. But this turns up with a search: https://groups.io/g/heathersherd
Joining HH requires approval from moderators, but based on your comments, it should be no problem for you. I strongly recommended you to Ellie. Same for you, DavidInSC.
There are places for folks to gather such as FB and Church (which this place often resembles, particularly when castigating the heathens that disagree).
I for one am not a member of FB or Church because collective head nodding makes me nauseous. Comfort should come from within, not from exogenous and poorly-constrained inputs. From those, I expect a cacophony of ideas and I hope them to be as varied and as interesting as the world, at large.
I really enjoy reading the ideas here and agree with some; disagree with others. But, I feel the real purpose in sharing said ideas is to debate them, test their veracity, find weaknesses and improve/discard them.
And in doing so, we need to refrain from dehumanizing and marginalizing others we dislike which certainly is a tactic that is unbecoming to the community.
First, don't discount people by calling them trolls.
Second, if you feel like engaging someone, do so on the points being made.
Third, folks outside the US have valid observations to share, too.
Fourth, who cares? These are just comments buried in the web. And really, I'm not sure the trolls are any worse than some who co-opt HCR's platform to post their own lengthy diatribes in order to elevate themselves. I personally find that much more distracting.
How to recognize first they aren't American. Then how to narrow it down to if they work in St. Petersberg at Putin's Troll Factory, the "Internet Research Agency". Look for clues to their political pushin agenda.
Most everyone here is pushing a political agenda, including HCR. Therefore, it's best to follow item #2, above.
Unsupported paranoid fears about other anonymous people who say things you don't like is unhealthy. To further coordinate with others against these people you have spuriously identified for blacklisting is no better than the bullying from Trump. It is also contrary to my core beliefs and I feel it is important to shine light on this behavior.
I agree with your last point, certainly, that we should "refrain from dehumanizing and marginalizing others we dislike," and though I am unqualified, as a relative newcomer, to comment on whether or not that is the tendency here, it seems to me it is not, but it certainly does happen. As for your other points, I guess we will just have to disagree on where the boundary lies between a community and a forum dedicated to the rough-and-tumble of unbridled debate. I think this place tends more toward the community end of that spectrum than otherwise. I, for one, like it that way.
A community that, in concert with one another seeks out "trolls" to marginalize? Having been cast into that part of the spectrum, and hounded (puns always intended) by the fine deacon-beacons of the community, let's just say, "all is not what it seems, Alice".
Honestly, I understand your concern about being mocked or marginalized or ridiculed, or treated with disdain or downright contempt, William, but individual human beings are completely different than the FSB, or whatever yesterday's propaganda factory or troll farm is.
In my mind, two absolutely completely different subjects. (1) Treating people with respect, always, of course I agree completely.
(2) What relationship to have with the FSB, that is an *entirely* different matter.
TC and I are in agreement that treating them poorly is fair game. And if you want to Not Engage in order to stop a text thread, excellent, another good strategy.
Head on up to the initial post of mine in this cascade, it’s called “Trolls from FSB Moscow.” FSB is a Russian government agency that I believe, based on recent evidence submitted by one of the trolls, is where they work out of.
Oh give me a break. When the hell have you ever been a troll William? That’s ridiculous. I’ve never seen anything but extremely well thought out positions coming from you. You’re a gem. Anybody who says otherwise is clueless or just got their buttons pushed because you disagreed with them. Overly sensitive. It happens. I’ve been there. Eric O’Donnell from Toronto. Then when we cleared things up, he told me something I will never forget:
Ah, but I do recall someone calling William a troll a while back.. hopefully each of us works to not be in an echo chamber (when did silo go away?). I sometimes wonder if William & others are being a devil's advocate.
Sounds right to me. A devil's advocate is a thinking, concerned human being expressing his thoughts. William's statements don't always appeal to me, but I would not call him a troll. If William gets under your skin, then there's a growth opportunity there, an opportunity for maturing. He's not hostile. That would be the Russian tag teams, like the ones working through the Jack_Leon handle-moniker. Now those are hostiles.
WOW! Just wow Roland! You give fascinating and useful insight into russian trolling. I love your wife’s comment about the pigs.
#5 is surprising, “... they are engaging in order to infiltrate and influence.” I wonder if they get a bonus for converting a “Liberal” 🤣. Maybe an extra piroshki.
Roland, Thanks for doing the heavy lifting here. I'm not too good at spotting these folks. Could you post a list of trolls you have found? It would help me do a quick first, "do not respond" list. I wish substack had a filter feature. Harking back to the early '80s (yes I'm dating myself) the "Whole Earth 'Lectric Link" (WELL) had moderators who sniffed out trolls who we called 'flamers' back then and shut them off. Very effective community collaboration.
A list of trolls wouldn’t do you much good. They have teams that work through a single name, i.e. a single fake identity here on Substack. They open and close new fake names, new fake identities, at will. The way to recognize them is the inflammatory politically charged statements designed to engage you and keep you engaged, apparently they earn money for the number of replies they elicit. Which is why most people choose not to engage.
Actually, I think this is already happening. When I see a post that is controversial and has been on the comments for a fair amount of time, but has fewer than expected responses, I immediately see a red (pardon the pun) flag.
TROLLS from FSB MOSCOW: A Brief Counterintelligence Study in Open Forum
When I told my wife what I was up to this morning, conversing with Russian trolls, she discouraged me in no uncertain terms from continuing to engage. Her quote, which she coined from her days in political activism, “If you roll around in the mud with pigs, you get dirty, and the pigs love it.”
"Don’t engage” is her message. A victory, in their view, is any engagement, that's the other part of the message.
However since Substack is my 1st SM forum, I am getting initiated here and hence this investigation.
During my round trip to the clinic and back home, getting my 2nd vaccine, I was reflecting on our “disinformatsiya” friends who are living and working in Moscow. Curious juxtaposition, to be sure, vaccination and FSB. What I am learning:
(1) Today’s (April 29, the HCR 4/28 Comments section) troll group is from the FSB in Moscow and is actually associated with the Kremlin. Curiously, he/they volunteered that information. Sometimes I can recognize when someone is telling me the truth even though they pretend to be contemptuous and mocking. It has a very distinct feel to it.
(2) They insist on attempting to hide their identity, even when their Russian govt. agency status is obvious. (Not too bright.)
(3) When pressed, they begin to tell the truth, couching it as “ridiculous” or “hillarious.”
(4) They have a rapacious appetite for engagement: clearly what they are paid to do.
(5) The purpose of engagement is to spread propaganda and to gather information for their propaganda-generating machine. We on HCR are being stereotyped here as “Liberals” (capitalization is theirs, we must be a designated category in their official propaganda system) and they are engaging in order to infiltrate and influence. (Good luck with that, chumps)
(6) They change the subject because they are not paying attention to the discussion topic. I think they probably live in their email, like a fisherman with several lines in the water, waiting for someone to post a reply and then pouncing. Because they are multitasking, impossible to carry a discussion or even a coherent argument.
(7) One particular troll is an actual human being, the one from an early HCR April 28 post from Friday morning, soon after TPJ's Troll Patrol post. He was hurt and insulted when I said he was not acting human, a ploy possibly, but I sensed an actual owie. I think he interpreted my statement as saying that he was inhuman, and perhaps that is what I was implying. Since then, I have seen fake attempts at appearing hurt, but at least one of the accusations of not being human landed. (It helps when a real human is confronting a phony internet handle.)
(8) Reading TJ’s excellent piece, which I am re-posting here, my suspicion is confirmed that multiple FSB employees operate through the fake handle.
(9) These guys are robots in human form. Somewhere in there, in all that phony bullshit, lurks a real Russian with a heart and a soul. It is to that Russian I direct my comments.
(10) Being transparent about my low opinion of their intelligence and their humanity, btw, is producing dividends. They might still be the GRU, but who cares. My consistent mention of GRU squeezed the words “FSB” out of them, so perhaps there is some interagency rivalry at play here. **An opportunity for a counterintelligence operative, yes that means you, you are now being recruited as a member of the Mission Impossible team, to inflict a little needling and teasing.
To engage, or not to engage. That is the question. Well, they are still humans after all, even if they are woefully lost in crazy-land. Obviously the “Not Engage” camp has a super strong argument.
So if you choose to engage, have a clear purpose. Up until now, my purpose has been to do what one guy in the Leon mask referred to when he said “thank you for the olive branch.” Remember, opportunities in Russia are severely limited. The country has prosperity issues, big ones. Maybe one of these guys dreams of having a job where he can be a real human, instead of a robotic apparatchik spouting drivel. At least one of these guys may well start admiring America by virtue of what he sees and hears on HCR. Compassion shown is never wasted, imo. This FSB handle (fake identity) is my only direct link to Russia. We can have a reverse influence which can insidiously trickle back to them, call it Mission Impossible or the Counterintelligence of Love Dept. Who knows what effect these conversations are producing in the actual Russian puppets working for the FSB. Underneath the day job still lies a human.
In every aspect of life, the objective is to establish and maintain a position, an attitude, which agrees with your principles. In other words, to face the new object from a place of integrity.
Not Engage: Excellent choice.
Engage: Do so cautiously, with clear intent, and remain firmly in your power. Targeted posts. Continual engagement not recommended, unless we operate as a tag team, like they do.
Now a repost of TJ from a few hours ago.
P.S. On my drive home from the clinic, I got a clear hit that this is a rapacious larger operation, not a sole operator. I continue to see images of streets and buildings in Moscow, and once in awhile, I am reading one of their posts and I am actually seeing the Russian perspective pretending to be non-Russian. Anyway, mounting quantities of visual intuitive evidence.
[begin TJ post]
TJ:
Not to beat a dead troll or anything, but after watching this little Mr. Leon drama unfold for some time now I vacillate between two possibilities. On the one hand I can’t shake the feeling that this specific figure “Leon” might well be who he claims to be which makes him a kind of accidental troll who has just consumed too much right wing media in Canada or the US and now he is unwittingly parroting Putin’s talking points. In my limited reading about the Russian troll farms I understand that they have different teams assigned to target different groups using entirely different playbooks for each. With the MAGA-nation the goal might be to feed the hate, but with groups such as the literate and generally progressive readers of this blog the strategy is different—infiltrate slowly, develop a brand and bonds, foster loyalty before sowing seeds of dissension and doubt. The Russians are masterful propagandists. We should never underestimate their sophistication. Which leads me to my second speculation. I did notice that some of the linguistic peculiarities “Leon” demonstrated in earlier replies seem to have suddenly vanished in later comments. The aggression/latent sadism was suddenly dialed up and grammar and mechanics improved. Even the idiom is a bit different later on. Perhaps this is a second shift Leon or a floor supervisor stepping in to distract from the concerted efforts of those attempting to out foreign influence. I have zero interest in feeding trolls, neither the ones working for the ruble nor their sad North American dupes working for free, but I do find the discussion of the problem in general incredibly important and worthwhile because once again our openness and gullibility is being exploited. I really appreciate those of you patrolling for the trolls because you help us to remain aware that we are absolutely under attack by a foreign nation savvy enough to exploit the unhealed wounds of a civil war. It is important not to engage them too deeply though because once it’s clear they are not open to genuine dialogue further engagement just allows them to repeat their talking points.
[end TJ post]
My understanding is that the role of trolls is to spread disinformation and provoke responses. Trolls rise and gain value in their organizations, groups, or intelligence orgs, based on the number of responses they provoke and can continue to engage. Not responding to a troll is an effective way to deny them power. If a comment seems inflammatory, particularly, you can be certain that it is trolling for comments. The longer a troll can keep someone engaged is a measure of their success. Many "trolls" are just programmed, intelligent bots. Do not feed them.
I’ve learned that if you respond when someone posts disinformation on social media you cause it to be seen more. In other words, because you responded, the algorithm in the software causes the disinformation to appear in more feeds. So, not responding is a good idea. (I’ve been doing some social media monitoring and and I thought this was an important thing to know.)
Thank you Joan for this tidbit. A lot to learn here.
Yes, Janjamm. A few subscribers cannot resist them, and I cannot understand the magnetism.
I've read that a person's response reveals an emotional reaction to the post. The more emotion the troll can stir up, the more points the troll receives. If no one responds, no points.
I agree. Engaging with a troll involves the same emotional dynamics as sensationalized journalism, sexualized advertising, trash talking, hate mongering, and/or trump talk. It's bad enough with a contrarian. The trolls are really nefarious.
Great analogies. According to this is from six years ago trolls often work in teams to carry out a task! https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/02/putin-kremlin-inside-russian-troll-house
Thank you 🙏
that must be the so-called Internet Research Agency
Or staffers at Breitfart,
Not a typo
Help each other. Even if it seems redundant. We all have our vulnerabilities that make us unique so we all fall for it sooner or later.
Thanks Roland. What's really bizarre is the similarity between the Russians and the Republicans. Autocrats all.
Republicussians
Made me laugh
Made me cry. To do so, so blatantly, speaks to higher goings on
It’s in the news that the FBI explicitly warned Rudy G and Ron Johnson that the Russian spies were using them. It made no difference.
They think their billionaire friends can protect them. Above the law. This is a signal we are in Oligarchy. Will Rogers, two legal systems. “Only the The poor break laws.”
The law, in its majestic equality, forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal loaves of bread.
-- Anatole France, "The Red Lily"
True, although mainly it is more evidence that they know they are working for Putin and don't care that he is an enemy of this country.
“American Oligarchs have more in common with Russian oligarchs than with everyday Americans”- Tim Snyder
On that note, allow me to explain why I did not begin my "Trolls from FSB Moscow" post with an apology for being off-topic. Republicussians, as TPJ put it. Putin and Trump are partners. Has there been any more glaring and hideous spectacle in U.S. history than the 2 of them hosting a joint meeting in Helsinki? Putin has put so many Republican lawmakers in his back pocket that I have lost count. There is the July 4 trip, JULY 4, that a group of Republicans made to Moscow to give obeisance to their master and benefactor. You can believe Putin was gloating, he snaps his fingers, and the trained dogs come running, on the day of supposed American independence. Putin's minions have saturated America, including the Republican Party, so we owe it to ourselves to educate ourselves about Russian FSB et al activities, especially when they show up here.
If you aren't familiar with the basics of the Putin-Trump-Republican Party orgy, I recommend Greg Olear. He has written a book called Dirty Rubles, he posts extensively about that subject and many others, and he is one of the 3 places I hang out on the internet.
Fasten your seat belt, the level of criminality and depravity can be shocking.
https://gregolear.substack.com/
This Putin story in particular is revealing and gut-wrenching. Must know information. Warning: take good care of yourself before, during, and after reading this.
https://gregolear.substack.com/p/from-trump-to-trump-how-the-mobs
Have heard of O’Lear. Will check it out.🙏
he's fabulous... and did someone mention Lucian T as well? Mandatory reading! : ). luciantruscott@substack.com
Birds of a kletocracic feather.
Bizarre sums it up nicely.
Protection in high places. For Ron Johnson it’s the Devos’ billions. Am way dies a ton of business in Russia. The Devos have billions in Russian banks from Amway profits in Russia. Ever meet a Russian woman with out make up? In a way, the Devos are in the Putin oligarch club. There, I said it.
I'm sure you are correct. That club includes Moscow Mitch, all the July 4 members of Congress who took that trip to Moscow, Agent Orange of course, and probably the entire sedition caucus, or most of it anyway. Well, not oligarchs or plutocrats exactly, but who cares how much money they have, we know who owns them.
“Having trouble fundraising for your right wing campaign? Well, here at the NRA, we can help that! We can get all the funding you need from x, and thanks to Citizens United, nobody needs to know who X is!” Wink Putin wink.
*shaking my head*
You nailed it.
I have limited time in the morning to absorb HCR’s columns, and I really look so forward to everyone’s comments. Thank you to everyone for taking the time to explain so much, and for your recommendations.
This exercise you undertook to flush out the trolls is fascinating. But I couldn’t help but wonder if one might take the bait if you were to ask for their favorite borscht or pirozhki recipes? 😁. Have a beautiful day, thank you and keep up the good fight!
Ask about their favorite vodka.
All right!!! The Counterintelligence Network is kicking in!!!!
I love that idea, Sherree! Just keep asking for recipes. LOL! That's great. 😅
You Good People are warming my heart!!
Sherree I love this contribution, thank you. GO TEAM HCR!!!!
LOL! Good one! Another thing I do whenever I have to call for support help for tech gone haywire and the voice sounds like something from the bottom of the barrel, is to ask how the weather is and ask about the time. I know this is mean, but call centers are EVERYWHERE these days, including right there in Moscow.
What are talking about? There's nothing mean. It's human to connect with other humans. I have been on Call Center calls with India, the Philippines, and elsewhere, discussing all manner of non-business related topics, when I have the time and the inclination, and when the service worker has the time and the inclination. I could write an entire article about my relationship with the AmEx India call center, it's fascinating.
True, Ellen, I have some uproarious conversations with operators in Quezon City and Bangalore.
On my to do list to look up the recipe for borscht— my husband hates beets and 85% of the other vegetables so it’s challenging.
Beets = bleccch. Your husband is a wise man where beets are concerned, but may need some coaching on other veggies.
TPJ, having read your illuminating and generous thoughts here for many months now, I was beginning to worry that you might be perfect. You seem to know everything. And you’re so nice! Such a relief to find out you’re a flawed human like the rest of us. A person who doesn’t like beets is still evolving :) But no worries, it’s clear you’re going in the right direction! Keep shining your light, except please keep quiet about beets. Re: everything else—write on!!
Thank you Adker, that's kind. I definitely do not know everything, but have managed to reduce my ignorance here and there.
But wait -- disliking beets is a flaw?? Full disclosure: I never cared for beets but occasionally ate them .... Until one day ... my never-vulgar father said that the best thing about them was that ... they made his urine turn red. Now when beets are in sight, there's that image and it's "no thanks."
Shoot, now I can’t unsee this either. Good thing I’m old, I’ll probably soon forget.
Oops! Sorry.
You two are a stitch. *big smile*
I could never make borscht the way the Russian Tea room can so ok I give up.
I followed the vitriol-filled Leon yesterday in some bemusement. It really surprised me how much he got under the skin of the group which normally packs up and disposes of trolls with wry derision.
I am a naïf, it seems. It never occurred to me that this could be infiltration by a team of professionals. I don’t dispute the point - I have no experience with this sort of activity. I thought he was just a rather persistent sort of gadfly with his own personal axe to grind.
In any case, today’s post by Heather marking Biden’s first 100 days is a marvelous antidote for poison. For me this was Heather’s most brilliant piece yet. In fact, as I read it I thought at one point that it had a valedictory air to it - that somewhere in it, perhaps at the very end, Heather would announce that she had completed her work in this forum. I well remember her writing some time ago that she didn’t know how long she would continue, but perhaps it would be to the end of Biden’s first 100 days.
Blessedly, my antennae was jammed or my wires were crossed - pick an analogy. Heather goes on. She is moving mountains, day by day, as this group grows and grows.
The one point I’d make today is this. Heather referred today to a poll showing that 77% of Americans approve of the American Recovery Act.
My thought is this: obviously some of those, many in fact, are Republicans. Many are Trump voters.
Some of this subset are certain to be feeling caught between a rock and a hard place. Do they continue to look back and bask in the glory days of the Magaverse? Or are they being pulled forward and looking at the seriously practical and beneficial world that has at least started to unfold under Biden/Harris?
Anger propelled many Trump followers. “Owning the Libs” was delightful sport. Until it wasn’t. Anger fades in time, especially when there is no propulsive force to maintain and manage it. And we go days without thinking of Trump now.
The Big Lie is getting harder and harder to push with a straight face - and energy. The Cyber Ninjas are inspecting the Maricopa ballots for watermarks? Seems dubious, but...whatever. But now they’ve abandoned that idea and are looking at the ballots “kinematically”, for special folds that will reveal the diabolical genius of those who conspired to cheat Trump out of victory. Surely that will work...
Many people are looking at the federal landscape and seeing the utter bleakness, the complete paucity of ideas, the chicanery and in-fighting of today’s Republicans.
They will watch, as we will. And they will vote in 2022 and 2024. Some will certainly vote reflexively for their Lauren Boebert or Marjory Taylor Greene. But others will realize that to do so is to bite the hand that feeds them.
It’s my belief that we are at a huge turning point. An op-Ed writer in the Globe and Mail yesterday, one with dozens of years of experience, opined that Biden’s first 100 days have been as consequential as any President in the last century. A few hours later I saw the scare headline (HuffPost maybe?), “Are the Democrats going to be slaughtered in 2022?”.
My bet is no. As Biden himself said this week, “Never bet against America”.
I might amend that to “Never bet against America when they have one last chance to stop screwing up.”
But we are at that point now. The siren songs of the last several years sound not so seductive now. They are beginning to sound cacophonous and discordant.
Unless this administration badly screws up, I think that it is going to exert a quiet but strong gravitational pull back to sanity. Lawyers, judges and actively-engaged citizens will subdue the crazies. Lots of people are going to jail for their sins and momentum against thuggery will become decisive.
Thank you Heather. I was very inspired by today’s article.
Eric, your writing is always thoughtful and balanced. I'm betting with you - unless Biden really drops the ball, my guess is that his approval rating will hold at the polls - in '22 and '24. The road will be peppered with minefields, but other than the MAGA faithful, I believe most of us are tired of fighting and anxiety-filled dreams. Perhaps the best thing that could have happened was the removal of the Trump megaphone on Twitter. Having said all of this, we mustn't relax or lose vigilance. We must do what we did in the '20 election, and not assume that the threat is past.
Eric, I echo Linda. Excellent.
I like your phrase, “a quiet but strong gravitational pull back to sanity.” Very nicely said.
That really pulled at my positivity threads—that still exist!
Thank you Joan. :)
I’m with Joan, that’s a beautiful turn of phrase, “gravitational pull back to sanity.“
The utter bleakness and chicanery.. those words encapsulate our predicament. Thank you.
Oh, another thing.
(11) They actually respond to a post that mentions trolls! Why do I find that so amusing? They know they’re trolls?! They don’t protest, they accept it and respond to it!! I’m sorry that’s just downright entertaining. What a bunch of chumps. Acting is not their strong suit. They suck at it.
So when TJ says they are master propaganda artists, I am holding my belly and gut laughing.
Learn from a professional, someone who really knows.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjIU-zqxJEA
too funny! Thanks for the first good laugh of the day!
That cracked me up. Thanks!
TJP, you're never at a loss, are you? You crack me up!😍
Thanks Nancy; you all are the inspiration. Someone writes something, then I remember something.
It is a gift that few possess.
Highly recommend watching this “documentary” with kids and grandkids!!! Trolls are real!
The lead actor has convinced me!
Thanks for that movie clip! Now I want to watch it.😂
You're welcome, Mitzi. The film is alternately scary and hilarious (just one L), not always intentional. It doesn't take itself too seriously.
Watch with kids it’s best!!! Watch their faces. Watch a little bit late, preferably during a storm.
😂
Imagine "Jack O'Lantern" agonizing for hours over which category he fits in.
According to Janjamm's reading, these 'tools' (they are our opponents tools to me) win points when interacting with subscribers and when they receive emotional reactions from us.. Roland, you and other subscribers are feeding these propaganda tools, so they keep coming back. As a result our forum is being crowded, in my opinion, with crap. How does this relate to the information and issues Heather raises or the issues raised by subscribers? How does it discourage somewhat shy subscribers who would otherwise exchange with questions and ideas? I don't think that the 'tool' material provides a welcome opening to the this forum. In my opinion, the magnetism to 'tools' is, perhaps, getting out of hand.
Hello Fern, it's good to see you. Of course I agree with all the points in your statement.
I am learning here. Many of you are already well acquainted with the FSB (or the GRU, whoever they are). In my very long piece, hidden inside, I say that Substack is my 1st social media forum. I have not been on FB and Tw and elsewhere. So this is all new to me. I trust my wife implicitly, she says don't engage, then that is probably what I will eventually do. So far I have engaged maybe 8-10 times. Each time, I have learned a great deal. I'm not naïve. I have not let them suck me in to their meat-grinder, so each time one of them has made a few kopecks off me, it has come at a cost. I'm learning the rules, learning about their operation and how it works. And when I finish the learning process, trust me, I will use their game plan against them. I'm a very creative guy.
100% how they respond! They are people with psychology that give us clues to their identity and motives.
In 2017, I really enjoyed Clint Watts, “Messing with the Enemy”
Roland, yes: be careful because there are operatives out there who are doing more dangerous stuff as well, but it sounds like you're having fun. So go for it! I am dealing with eastern European fake Academia "colleagues" (they don't seem to exist and the institutions they claim to be part of do not have them listed as faculty in their websites) who have been stealing my books, scanning them, and then posting them on Academia. I discovered this when one was tagged into my email as something I "might be interested in reading" as it relates to other work I have published or posted on Academia. This is a common situation for folks who publish--the Russians and the Chinese routinely break copyright laws--but I suspect that this is a tactic that comes from me using my real name on this platform and in other sites.
Wow! How disheartening.
You know, I deliberated long and hard about whether to use my real name on Substack last summer. TPJ and TC might be the smarter ones here, because if I could go back, I would revisit that decision. Fortunately, I don't have much published here, I could lose it and start over, wouldn't be a real problem. I might have to do that, you never know.
I can't say I am having fun. When you play with fire, sometimes you get burned. I am providing a service to all of us, but I am also putting my ass on the line. I am doing this out of a sense of duty. The smarter play would probably be to just walk away from this risk, and it is definitely a risk. Last night, upon posting, I realized I might have to prepare myself to dump my email and substack accounts, and start over. This ain't no walk in the park. I am digging pretty deeply here. Putin is not someone to be messed with lightly, and its him and his minions running this show.
I use my moniker because in another existence I am more well-known by name, and I don't like that getting in the way of things at places like substack.
Yes, I understand. I know who you are from an admission you made elsewhere, you know the one. Your decision makes perfect sense. However, despite your unrelated motivation for using a moniker or "handle," the perhaps unintended consequence is that you are protecting yourself in ways that I am not as protected. Being a target of the Russian govt. is not advisable. Anyway, right now I am just doing one day of troll counterintelligence. I should be ok. But I know from experience that opening a door to the dark side can have unexpected and unhappy consequences. I am thinking out loud here, thinking to myself, not that you necessarily care. If I ever go further, unlikely as that is, I would find a way to protect myself more effectively.
Actually, I care and I am sure others do too. You've done a good deed by alerting the community to what was going on, so I think you can sink back to as much anonymity as you can, with us now knowing 'do not engage the FSB trolls." Thank you for that.
Thank you TC, very kind of you to say that. After the day before, with the Leon FSB team, I was sitting on too much information just to keep it all to myself. Knowledge is power. I care a lot about this place, and everyone in it, and it pisses me off when those ratf---ers screw with us. I want maximum firepower directed as these a$$holes and the $hitbox who is their ultimate leader, so the more we all know, the better.
Yikes, I had no idea this was so prevalent.
It’s ubiquitous now. They focus on swing counties in swing states. How do they know? Paul Manafort gave them the “sensitive polling data”. We are in a cyber war, and we are missing bad!
😔
That is awful!
Good morning, Roland and happy day to you! Intense post my man and one that fills me with glee and hope! Today will be a don’t engage with tRolls day for me. It is good to see the choices clearly, tomorrow who knows. ❤️ to all who read this thread. May your day be peaceful.
Yours too.
Roland, I went back and read yesterday’s Leon thread, which had grown considerably from my early morning read. I think your analysis today nailed it. A couple of things stood out for me. One, a Canadian would never say “our government” when referring to the US, which Leon says, a lot. Two, the vitriol of some of his responses was startling to say the least. Three, when you read them and look for it, the grammar and spelling mistakes of a non-native speaker are glaringly obvious. Nothing wrong with being a non-native speaker, but why deny it? Finally, and the part I don’t understand at all, is why here? What are they trying to achieve?
Holy shit, Kathy, you're my new hero. You *voluntarily* went back into the war zone? Damn, Girl, you got my respect. (genuflects once, twice, thrice)
Go back to my original long piece "Trolls from FSB Moscow" and jump to the end, my repost of RJ from yesterday. He addresses that point specifically.
To be fair, I didn’t know what I was getting into! In light of your analysis, though, it was pretty interesting.
Good. More power to you if you can wade into that war zone and come out unscathed.
I’m relying on other voices but they’re getting paid to engage??
Yes, but why? To what purpose? To sow discord? To change people’s minds? To promote a false narrative? This particular audience isn’t really susceptible to that, so I still don’t understand why.
Did you notice how effectively IT managed to draw the conversation AWAY from HCR's letter of the day? I literally had to scroll down pages of off-topic tomfoolery (there' a new word for you, IT. Look it up) to find the original discussions and follow the contributions of those who were seriously trying to stay in a legitimate discussion ON TOPIC.
Excellent observation, Ellen. Thank you.
I think Ellen has a point. If nothing else, they are cluttering the freeway with traffic and making it harder for us to navigate.
Kathy 100%. The goal is to divide, destabilize and weaken America. LFAA is a real challenge, given the high level of education and accomplishment among subscribers (yes, that's immodest). Maybe the Kremlin will award the Cross of St George to "Jack O'Lantern" for yesterday's less than Stalingrad-like "achievements."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orders,_decorations,_and_medals_of_Russia#State_decorations_of_the_Russian_Federation
TPJ, I just got a pass today from my horse trainer blogger that it's more than ok to be immodest over my accomplishments. I'll pass it along to you and all the subscribers on this page!!
Hmm, do we have to donate to the RF, too?
I used to be conceited, but now I'm perfect.
Hard to be humble...I know.
The reminds me of as long that went" oh lord it's hard tob e humble when you're perfect in every way...." !
That's the one, BetsyC!
Legend in my own mind
Pure infiltration?? Honestly I haven’t a clue.
Just whack them. I actually got LieOn to squeal like a piggie.
Whack a trolee
Nice work. I saw that.
Roland, thanks for this info. I am in your wife's camp, 'Don't engage'. This is garbage to me, taking up far too much space on the forum and the little time that I take the to read this stuff, it boils down to absolute nonsense or a psycho-ward show, if you go in for such entertainment. Why after all this time does this continue to interest you? I see able subscribers wasting their precious time with these tools. That is what they are here to do. Is there no better use of our time? REALLY???
Just today Fern. One and done. I felt it was my duty to publicize what I learned.
Thanks, Roland. I agree with your wife. Don’t engage. For anyone thinking about engaging, please look back at the comments of our community here. Several of our friends here wouldn’t even read comments that day because of all the “bad juju”. Enough said.
I must be doing something wrong. I rarely see troll posts. Leon once in a while. I enjoy reading posts from Republican trolls.
And remember it is bad to lose an arguement with a skunk but what does it say if you win?
Everyone loses with a skunk, Even if we win, we lose.
That is why I choose non engagement
I think that’s for the best. Don’t give them an inch.
Yup.
Lol, but I really like skunks, even if Pepe le Pew is a creepy misogynist.
I like skunks too but have never been in an argument with one. My dogs have. Pepe is truly not God's gift to women is he?
All the research conducted in my formative years suggest only that Pepe was not appealing to cats. Of course, that was before smellivision
Even when we win with a troll, we have given them insights into our pysche. Into our hearts and minds. Winning a troll debate should feel bittersweet.
Excellent point. As always.
Also a time waster, where there are more productive drums to pound?
Don’t Fight the same enemy to often. They learn from you and that can make them stronger, less detectable to other less deserving Americans. Don’t give too much insight into your touch points and pysche.
Thank you ted, that is really an excellent point. I’ve had to think about what I’m willing to disclose. When engaging, obviously you have to be acutely aware that you are engaging with an enemy. Don’t give them free ammunition. But this is an open forum, so we have to talk to each other too. So it’s tricky.
“. . . less discerning Americans,” thank you ted.
Roland, I was very happy that you liked my comment listing the reasons for not engaging the 'trolls', who I call 'tools'. They come here to divert attention from our objectives and to spew propaganda. The tools earn points when they engage us, thus we have become a rich site for messing around. More of them come and they come more often. It doesn't amount to censorship to simply ignore them. Thanks, Roland.
You’re welcome, Fern, and thank you for your perspective. Again, I’m probably sounding repetitive, but I’m figuring out for myself how to engage a hostile entity. I don’t like being a victim, I like being in my power, and as you’ve seen I encourage others to do the same, in whatever arena. Educating myself is the first step. Trust me, I’m not going to be bringing this up very often, if at all. I’m just in the middle of a brand new (for me) learning process. When engaging a hostile, it helps to know as much about them as possible, and to assess your own armament and resources. By doing a “troll information dump” today, I am eliciting comments to educate myself. Knowledge is power.
If it were up to me, in a perfect world, we would have an information resource section available here to catalog everything we know about this hostile. That would allow newcomers to educate themselves, and it would allow us to continually add new things we’ve learned. For now, I’m absorbing everything everybody has said.
Let ‘em have it. Stay unpredictable too. Sometimes it’s just good to let them know, that we know we are in a cyberwar of sorts.
FOLKS THIS IS THE LAST DAY OF THE MONTH FOR CONTRIBUTIONS TO CHARLES BOOKER RUNNING AGAINST RAND PAUL. CHECK HIM OUT TO MAKE A CONTRIBUTION IF YOU CAN.
Charles Booker info@e.charlesbooker.orgHide
Charles Booker
Fern, I’m about to ask once more for a little help. But I hope you’ll hear me out for a second on why I’m asking before I get to that part.
First, I have to say I’m so grateful for y’all. When you think about running for office, it’s an emotional process. You’re throwing your whole self into it. You’re putting your family into it. The stakes are high and everything is on the line. So it means everything to me that we’ve barely just launched our exploratory and already we’ve had more than 10,000 people donate.
Knowing that so many people want to see us make a run for it against Rand Paul, that gets me fired up. But that’s not the only reason I’m asking you to donate before tonight’s end-of-month deadline. Let me explain real quick:
For starters, this is our very first deadline — tonight at midnight. The politicians and pundits want to know if we can raise enough money to run a big campaign if we go for it. I want to be able to show them we can.
Second, the Senate is 50-50 and Kentucky is in play. We’re one of the only states with a Democratic governor and two Republican senators. I know we could win, and just imagine what that would mean for our whole nation.
Grassroots is the only way to win. I can’t win if I run alone. That’s the truth. The only way we transform Kentucky and this country is by building a broad-based grassroots movement. And that starts with everyone joining in — yes, even by making a donation.
https://secure.actblue.com/donate/cb-ads-dd-google-explrty-launch?source=ads_ms_CHB_20210412-DD-GS-AprilExploratoryLaunch-National_brandedkw-Natl-18U-MF_ad001&UTM_source=ads_ms_CHB_20210412-DD-GS-AprilExploratoryLaunch-National_brandedkw-Natl-18U-MF_ad001&gclid=Cj0KCQjw1a6EBhC0ARIsAOiTkrGztfWC6Kw4Kj3H_PR44ErOUVBPry2Ik9HxKMhI76MdjSpLuVmdXlkaAnQ_EALw_wcB
Click above to donate to a good human, and send Rand back to the paul.
Wish I had five heart memes to reply. Thanks.
I'd like to send him to India to volunteer at a hospital in Calcutta.
For mr. Rand to say such stupid sh*t on the regular is one thing, but to continue to offer false assurance about natural herd immunity is too much for me. Much of mr. DT and mr. Scott Atlas false claims of herd immunity has been disproven in India, and now the victims and dying of Covid there are those 20 to 60. Previous exposure is no protection to a coldly cruel and clever mutating rna virus. (I know mr rand has never studied virology, if he did he is more stupid than he looks!)
But its not just the UK strain ripping India apart. There are also now new variants and new variants sure to come from such explosive growth of the disease. This thinking or "Not thinking" from Mr. Rand Paul and others has put not just Indians at risk. Such dumbfuckery continues to put ALL of us, even the vaccinated at increased risk if or when the new Indian variants reach our shores.
And so, as long as Mr. Rand runs, Ill be donating to any an all of his opponents. "hey Rand, go **** yourself!"
Ted, These are crimes against humanity we are hearing about and seeing. It combines rage with pain in me, while far away from India and South America...I live in NYC, so I'm not, so, so far away: at least 1 in 256 have died here, a total of 32,513 deaths, probably more. Going to several hospitals to deliver gowns, including the one in Elmhurst, Queens, last April, is not appropriate writing material at this time.
Yes. Yes they are indeed. There is an PhD public Health/epidemiology at the University of Michigan. Her stats/models say that Undia is 3 to 5x worse/higher than reported. India is to poor. Health care infrastructue lacking. Something like only 13 icu beds per couple million.
Oh, Ted. I knew it was a lot worse...
India is also too autocratic. US, Brazil, India are 1-2-3 globally in Covid-19 deaths, the vast majority coming under tyrant wannabes 1/45, Bolsona$$hole, and Modi. (Sorry, no insulting name for him yet.) The pattern shows that autocrats routinely divert essential resources elsewhere, and do not care about all their citizens.
Done. Thanks!
Discerning not deserving ( finger typing again)
I know this is another ploy on their part, but Leon makes an entirely valid point when he suggests that we have a tendency to label as a troll anyone who vociferously disagrees with us. I agree, though, that distinguishing between the two is a fool's errand, so it's a dilemma.
How do you suggest replying to someone who has expressed views, opinions, or is prostituting's false facts antithetical to democracy & common sense, with a lack of good faith and disrespect towards humanity? Sometimes being overly polite is not what is required to defend democratic ideals. Not always, but sometimes.
Yes, there is clearly appropriate anger. What I have seen on this forum, though, is that the best of those who are here tend to respond with facts and persuasion and demand the same from their interlocutors. It's not always easy, especially when the opinions stated are provocative, but it seems to me the most effective response. For one thing, it makes clear who the irrational person in the conversation is; the contrast can be stunning.
Commonality amongst humans. We are passionate beings.
Passion and compassion.
And sometimes you get your button pushed. Restimulated. It happens. You take a deep breath, you get through it, you learn from it.
Thanks! I have both a wry sense of humor and strong opinion and have been repeatedly cast as a troll here. It's very sad to see folks here gang up on others and it makes the group less intellectually appealing than what it could be. But what you state, above is key: "anyone who vociferously disagrees with us.".
There shouldn't be an "us" when it comes to disseminating ideas and information unless it's propaganda. Particularly if folks expect to be taken seriously as free thinkers.
Oh, I don't know, I think there is a place in society for like-minded people to gather for solace. Feeling that there is an "us" and that we largely agree about things is very comforting, especially in a world that has become hostile to much of what we think should be true. I don't think it's propaganda; an echo chamber, perhaps, but not propaganda. I sometimes feel very lost and hopeless in this world and this group helps.
Early on, on Facebook, Dr. Richardson commented that this was part of her motivation for LFAA - to create a community of support for each other. She succeeded, spectacularly.
Someone mentioned yesterday that she might stop writing this because she only promised to continue to do so for Biden's first 100 days. Especially as a newcomer here, I was surprised at the grief I felt (and continue to feel) at that possibility. I hope it's not true.
She's been an anchor in a storm for me since I first started reading her last summer. The storm of the GOP is still raging, though it's lost a lot of its strength.
HCR is a transformational leader. 🙏
YUP! She's the whole package! Great sense of humor and SO non-pretentious... gawd I love her!
I doubt she stops writing to us, maybe just the frequency. The process has been as transformational for her as for us. Once transformed there is no going back.
I vote for what you say, ted. If I had to guess, I'd say she is a bit pleasantly surprised at the cognitive level of most folks who subscribe to her Letters.
I reckon that’s validation for mastering both history/politics but also the art of teaching.
Noting the repeated 2AM postings or later, Ive often worried about what personal toll this may be taking on HCR. Profoundly grateful for it, but also feeling slightly guilty for never wanting her to stop writing in this manner.....
Toll or energizing? What would it mean to democracy if the world had a million more Heather Cox Richardson’s? Making sense of the political events of the day with historical perspective necessary for understanding & meaning is the definition of teaching. And teaching’s ultimate goal is to teach people how to learn and teach themselves, and then others. Teaching is a form of transforming leadership. The ultimate goal of leadership is to create more leaders. The real urgent question is, “What will we do with all we have learned here?”
You said it best. She is a transformational leader. Of course, what we do with it is up to each one of us, but comprehension of the larger picture inspires confidence to engage. Hence our gratitude. And engage we must....
I think this platform has grown more than HCR had considered, initially. Oddly, folks can reach more minds as internet influencers than college professors.
True, William. It's her history prof's expertise that makes her influential online.
Amazing! There is a deep emotional component here for HCR, and among us all. These letters are revolutionary. I m just reminded of RFK, “our new connectedness”.... finally our humanity has caught up to the technology. There won’t be stopping this type of mass comms for learning, sharing, discussing and reflecting. This is truly where the power lies in a democracy.
Agree wholeheartedly
LFAA is an affirmation of how forge comunity over the internet.
"This is a Day of Affirmation – a celebration of liberty. We stand here in the name of freedom.
At the heart of that western freedom and democracy is the belief that the individual man, the child of God, is the touchstone of value, and all society, all groups, and states, exist for that person's benefit. Therefore the enlargement of liberty for individual human beings must be the supreme goal and the abiding practice of any western society.
The first element of this individual liberty is the freedom of speech; the right to express and communicate ideas, to set oneself apart from the dumb beasts of field and forest; the right to recall governments to their duties and obligations; above all, the right to affirm one's membership and allegiance to the body politic – to society – to the men with whom we share our land, our heritage and our children's future." -RFK
There’s always a reason to double back and read HRC’s readers’ posts later in the day. So glad I did so today.
Ted initially I had thought this was your writing. Bobby wasn’t wrong!
Yeah I did the same thing. Does it matter? ted is the messenger. The message is brilliant.
Oh my God that’s moving
Spectacularly. Yes. 100%.
Millions strong. More than an army of activism and cohesiveness.
Agree, Kathy! BTW, how are you doing these days? Just checking in.
Lynell, thank you for asking ❤️ I am doing ok. Finished my seven weeks of chemo and radiation two weeks ago, and am healing. I will need a surgery in a few weeks, but don’t know yet how complicated that will be. I tolerated treatment really well, and we are hopeful. I’ve ridden (my old horse, not the new spicy one!) twice this week which gave me an enormous amount of joy. Spring is helping, too - it’s lovely to see the world greening up.
Hi Kathy. I didn't know you have serious health issues and I'm sorry to hear it. Tanti auguri per una ripresa rapida! I have planted 12 dry peas in 3 pots overlooking the Marche countryside where Spring has really sprung in the past few days. The peas are a gift from a friend whose friend is an archaeologist who has recently been digging around in ancient gravesites in Egypt. The immediate ancestors of these peas were harvested more than 2,000 years ago and sat in a ceramic jar all these years until the archaeologist planted a few. Surprisingly, they grew, so he kept a few of the offspring to give away. They were quite shriveled up and nearly black in their tiny box, but I noticed yesterday that one had sprouted, and this morning it is already 2 cm tall. I hope the others will sprout too, but in any case these are now known as Kathy's Egyptian peas. I'll let you know how it goes.
David, that is the coolest thing ever! I’m honored. I have some old seeds from a mirabilis jalapa (marvel of Peru) plant I harvested a few years ago from a plant at our long time rental in Sardegna. I think I will plant them and call them David’s Marvels if they grow!
I read somewhere that someone with terminal cancer was planting bulbs in the fall that he wouldn’t live to see bloom. Not that I think I’m dying; I don’t! But I’m determined to live each day with that kind of attitude. Not everything about a cancer diagnosis is bad. My marriage is stronger than ever, our children are incredibly supportive not only of me, but also of each other (which hasn’t always been true of them!), and our friends fed us splendidly for two months during which we didn’t cook a single meal. We are surrounded by love and caring, and that brings strength. I feel very at peace and in a good place, and while I’m terribly tired, I feel fairly well otherwise. Mille grazie.
Mirabilis jalapa (Bella di notte in italiano) are beautiful flowers. We had tons of them growing around the house we rented in Asmara for three years. They could fill up a naked flower bed in no time and even encroached on my vegetables. Thanks so much for naming yours after me!
Best Wishes for you and your treatment. That is a wonderful attitude to have and I'm sure it will help you recover more quickly. Feeling love and support is such a blessing.
Thank you! It took some work to get there, but worth it.
Wow. Kathy I love you.
I’m flattered, and I love you too!
To find joy in your journey inspires such hope. Thank you for your gift and may each day be better than the last.
David you are pure honey. What a sweet person you are.
You know, the connection of our HCR forum men here, and their abilities to communicate their emotions and wit and humor ripples out to all of us. Our world needs many more men like we find here.
Thank you for expressing your intelligence, inquiry, respect (usually), and genuine kindness for one another and for other members here. It is like a healing balm for what is going on out in the world of Yin and Yank.
High Fives for all this good news! Especially having ridden. Nothing like tried and true (or tried and know what's under you!) Hang in there with the new spicy one. You'll get there, I'm sure. Let me know how it goes.
After morning Lynell and TPJ.
Recover well Kathy! Enjoy the Spring.
Kathy... I am so sorry that you are going through this... I've started writing to you about it, but...it is so hard thing to fine the right words. It's awful. I went through it, but not as severely as you are I will keep you in my heart, but I sense that you are going to kick cancer's ass!
I’m sorry you went through it, too. It’s pretty awful, isn’t it?
Life changing... I don’t think anything was ever the same, but it would be impossible to explain to most people. Not radically, but just different. I was at launch of my (third round in the game). I had two dynamic careers, and I thought I had pulled all my experience and knowledge and knew how to launch a serious movement to make a real serious change... I had just gotten back from my second safari, I was so passionate about my photography and our elephants. I was so determined. This had been building for years! And suddenly, my legs were cut out from under me. It was so dramatic... it was the best I had felt about my life and what I could accomplish. I was just 64, and never even thought about my age, so irrelevant. I was ready to charge full force forward and do anything and everything to affect change. But, I was ‘down’. For about 2 years. Blurry boundaries on that.... slowly I re-emerged, and tried to re-ignite my life and my goals. I was physically weaker, 2 years older, and then came covid. So, in a few weeks I will be 70, and I’m not sure what I will be able to resurrect? And how to create a new vision, and move forward. I refuse to ‘kick back’ and just take life in... I truly need to be producing, providing, pursuing.... you know?!
Oh, I agree on so many levels! I was poised to achieve something special, and then the rug got pulled out from under me. I don’t know yet if I’ll be strong enough to do it still. The thought of pursuing my passion in a lackadaisical fashion just doesn’t thrill me, but it’s better than not doing it at all. The prognosis for my type of cancer isn’t very good, although I’m ignoring that as best I can. But at the same time, that stuff just doesn’t seem to matter very much. It’s such an odd place. I wouldn’t wish it on my worst enemy.
Aftermorning Lynell!! I joined Heather's Herd and expect to be part of tomorrow's 1pm Zoom. Please consider doing the same.
How does one become part of HH?
Sorry for confusion, Roland; "park the truck" is meaningless, just a throwaway remark.
Ellie Kona posts the HH email address regularly. I'm new to it, so not yet comfortable sharing the email without approval. But this turns up with a search: https://groups.io/g/heathersherd
My one HH Zoom shows that people there respect privacy, but also foster openness. Real names are used but kept confidential. They can share contact info with each other securely. That seems like a good way connect directly without public exposure.
Afternoon, David. Ellie Kona posts the HH email address regularly. I'm new to it, so not yet comfortable sharing the email without approval. But this turns up with a search: https://groups.io/g/heathersherd
Hope to see you soon!
Midafternoon, TPJ!! HH will be well served having you! Can't make tomorrow but will try for next time.
Joining HH requires approval from moderators, but based on your comments, it should be no problem for you. I strongly recommended you to Ellie. Same for you, DavidInSC.
I'm already a member, TPJ; sorta non-participating, though.
Excellent. Y'all are joining my wife, she's on the podcast.
I absolutely am. Delighted to learn this again.
SPECTACULARLY
There are places for folks to gather such as FB and Church (which this place often resembles, particularly when castigating the heathens that disagree).
I for one am not a member of FB or Church because collective head nodding makes me nauseous. Comfort should come from within, not from exogenous and poorly-constrained inputs. From those, I expect a cacophony of ideas and I hope them to be as varied and as interesting as the world, at large.
I really enjoy reading the ideas here and agree with some; disagree with others. But, I feel the real purpose in sharing said ideas is to debate them, test their veracity, find weaknesses and improve/discard them.
And in doing so, we need to refrain from dehumanizing and marginalizing others we dislike which certainly is a tactic that is unbecoming to the community.
Yes, I agree, and have said so on these pages. But we are right to be wary, and warned, when we are just being played.
It doesn't matter if you are being "played" as long as you have fun while doing it ;)
I’m not so sure bout this. What is best dealing with a troll? Hmmmm? How to notice if they are not an American ?
First, don't discount people by calling them trolls.
Second, if you feel like engaging someone, do so on the points being made.
Third, folks outside the US have valid observations to share, too.
Fourth, who cares? These are just comments buried in the web. And really, I'm not sure the trolls are any worse than some who co-opt HCR's platform to post their own lengthy diatribes in order to elevate themselves. I personally find that much more distracting.
How to recognize first they aren't American. Then how to narrow it down to if they work in St. Petersberg at Putin's Troll Factory, the "Internet Research Agency". Look for clues to their political pushin agenda.
Most everyone here is pushing a political agenda, including HCR. Therefore, it's best to follow item #2, above.
Unsupported paranoid fears about other anonymous people who say things you don't like is unhealthy. To further coordinate with others against these people you have spuriously identified for blacklisting is no better than the bullying from Trump. It is also contrary to my core beliefs and I feel it is important to shine light on this behavior.
I'm with Ted. "Playing" is fun only for the playah.
Your Boston is showing.
And your troll friend may get a raise!
Actually, the troll-farmers have been exploiting poor folks who don't have the conversational English skills to be call center representatives.
Can you imagine being chained to a keyboard and never experiencing daylight? For only $1/day, you can feed a family of four trolls a day!
Putin has turned Russians into his slaves”- Nalvany
that made my heart ache....
😔
CERTAINLY that is true in the FSB.
😔
The problem is that natural Troll habitat has been diminishing. There are very few charming stone bridges anywhere.
I agree with your last point, certainly, that we should "refrain from dehumanizing and marginalizing others we dislike," and though I am unqualified, as a relative newcomer, to comment on whether or not that is the tendency here, it seems to me it is not, but it certainly does happen. As for your other points, I guess we will just have to disagree on where the boundary lies between a community and a forum dedicated to the rough-and-tumble of unbridled debate. I think this place tends more toward the community end of that spectrum than otherwise. I, for one, like it that way.
A community that, in concert with one another seeks out "trolls" to marginalize? Having been cast into that part of the spectrum, and hounded (puns always intended) by the fine deacon-beacons of the community, let's just say, "all is not what it seems, Alice".
Honestly, I understand your concern about being mocked or marginalized or ridiculed, or treated with disdain or downright contempt, William, but individual human beings are completely different than the FSB, or whatever yesterday's propaganda factory or troll farm is.
In my mind, two absolutely completely different subjects. (1) Treating people with respect, always, of course I agree completely.
(2) What relationship to have with the FSB, that is an *entirely* different matter.
TC and I are in agreement that treating them poorly is fair game. And if you want to Not Engage in order to stop a text thread, excellent, another good strategy.
Pardon my naïveté, but WTF is FSB? My evil mind is working overtime to create appropriate words.
Head on up to the initial post of mine in this cascade, it’s called “Trolls from FSB Moscow.” FSB is a Russian government agency that I believe, based on recent evidence submitted by one of the trolls, is where they work out of.
Oh give me a break. When the hell have you ever been a troll William? That’s ridiculous. I’ve never seen anything but extremely well thought out positions coming from you. You’re a gem. Anybody who says otherwise is clueless or just got their buttons pushed because you disagreed with them. Overly sensitive. It happens. I’ve been there. Eric O’Donnell from Toronto. Then when we cleared things up, he told me something I will never forget:
When I see “Roland“ I read “Roland.“
The ultimate compliment.
Ah, but I do recall someone calling William a troll a while back.. hopefully each of us works to not be in an echo chamber (when did silo go away?). I sometimes wonder if William & others are being a devil's advocate.
Sounds right to me. A devil's advocate is a thinking, concerned human being expressing his thoughts. William's statements don't always appeal to me, but I would not call him a troll. If William gets under your skin, then there's a growth opportunity there, an opportunity for maturing. He's not hostile. That would be the Russian tag teams, like the ones working through the Jack_Leon handle-moniker. Now those are hostiles.
WOW! Just wow Roland! You give fascinating and useful insight into russian trolling. I love your wife’s comment about the pigs.
#5 is surprising, “... they are engaging in order to infiltrate and influence.” I wonder if they get a bonus for converting a “Liberal” 🤣. Maybe an extra piroshki.
Roland, Thanks for doing the heavy lifting here. I'm not too good at spotting these folks. Could you post a list of trolls you have found? It would help me do a quick first, "do not respond" list. I wish substack had a filter feature. Harking back to the early '80s (yes I'm dating myself) the "Whole Earth 'Lectric Link" (WELL) had moderators who sniffed out trolls who we called 'flamers' back then and shut them off. Very effective community collaboration.
Keep up the good work.
A list of trolls wouldn’t do you much good. They have teams that work through a single name, i.e. a single fake identity here on Substack. They open and close new fake names, new fake identities, at will. The way to recognize them is the inflammatory politically charged statements designed to engage you and keep you engaged, apparently they earn money for the number of replies they elicit. Which is why most people choose not to engage.
Maybe this is a time for passive resistance— we recognize them and ignore them.
Actually, I think this is already happening. When I see a post that is controversial and has been on the comments for a fair amount of time, but has fewer than expected responses, I immediately see a red (pardon the pun) flag.
"red flag" Nice!
We need a code phrase to warn each other. To protect each other. Early warning them ignore. Do not feed signs.
How about SA? "Schmuck Alert" Open to options but this is a family place.
"IGNORE" should work well enough.
The word "troll" seems to be the usual go-to option.
See what you wrote 16 hours ago and what triggers.
Think of peanuts. Do not throw peanuts to the gallery.
Oh, those flamers!!
Thank you Sir. Appreciate the support and encouragement. Take a look at my reply to Linda Mitchell.