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Carol O's avatar

Thank you Heather. For sticking with us. We need your help, your careful understanding/writing about the history and the current issues.

Please do whatever keeps you healthy. Take time off, hang out w loved ones, always be good to yourself. You are my first living national treasure! Possibly President Biden will become one in a few years.

Your gift makes complex political and societal issues understandable. You bring me and many many others hope for a future for our families. Thank you again dear woman.

Roland (CA->WA)'s avatar

TROLLS from FSB MOSCOW: A Brief Counterintelligence Study in Open Forum

When I told my wife what I was up to this morning, conversing with Russian trolls, she discouraged me in no uncertain terms from continuing to engage. Her quote, which she coined from her days in political activism, “If you roll around in the mud with pigs, you get dirty, and the pigs love it.”

"Don’t engage” is her message. A victory, in their view, is any engagement, that's the other part of the message.

However since Substack is my 1st SM forum, I am getting initiated here and hence this investigation.

During my round trip to the clinic and back home, getting my 2nd vaccine, I was reflecting on our “disinformatsiya” friends who are living and working in Moscow. Curious juxtaposition, to be sure, vaccination and FSB. What I am learning:

(1) Today’s (April 29, the HCR 4/28 Comments section) troll group is from the FSB in Moscow and is actually associated with the Kremlin. Curiously, he/they volunteered that information. Sometimes I can recognize when someone is telling me the truth even though they pretend to be contemptuous and mocking. It has a very distinct feel to it.

(2) They insist on attempting to hide their identity, even when their Russian govt. agency status is obvious. (Not too bright.)

(3) When pressed, they begin to tell the truth, couching it as “ridiculous” or “hillarious.”

(4) They have a rapacious appetite for engagement: clearly what they are paid to do.

(5) The purpose of engagement is to spread propaganda and to gather information for their propaganda-generating machine. We on HCR are being stereotyped here as “Liberals” (capitalization is theirs, we must be a designated category in their official propaganda system) and they are engaging in order to infiltrate and influence. (Good luck with that, chumps)

(6) They change the subject because they are not paying attention to the discussion topic. I think they probably live in their email, like a fisherman with several lines in the water, waiting for someone to post a reply and then pouncing. Because they are multitasking, impossible to carry a discussion or even a coherent argument.

(7) One particular troll is an actual human being, the one from an early HCR April 28 post from Friday morning, soon after TPJ's Troll Patrol post. He was hurt and insulted when I said he was not acting human, a ploy possibly, but I sensed an actual owie. I think he interpreted my statement as saying that he was inhuman, and perhaps that is what I was implying. Since then, I have seen fake attempts at appearing hurt, but at least one of the accusations of not being human landed. (It helps when a real human is confronting a phony internet handle.)

(8) Reading TJ’s excellent piece, which I am re-posting here, my suspicion is confirmed that multiple FSB employees operate through the fake handle.

(9) These guys are robots in human form. Somewhere in there, in all that phony bullshit, lurks a real Russian with a heart and a soul. It is to that Russian I direct my comments.

(10) Being transparent about my low opinion of their intelligence and their humanity, btw, is producing dividends. They might still be the GRU, but who cares. My consistent mention of GRU squeezed the words “FSB” out of them, so perhaps there is some interagency rivalry at play here. **An opportunity for a counterintelligence operative, yes that means you, you are now being recruited as a member of the Mission Impossible team, to inflict a little needling and teasing.

To engage, or not to engage. That is the question. Well, they are still humans after all, even if they are woefully lost in crazy-land. Obviously the “Not Engage” camp has a super strong argument.

So if you choose to engage, have a clear purpose. Up until now, my purpose has been to do what one guy in the Leon mask referred to when he said “thank you for the olive branch.” Remember, opportunities in Russia are severely limited. The country has prosperity issues, big ones. Maybe one of these guys dreams of having a job where he can be a real human, instead of a robotic apparatchik spouting drivel. At least one of these guys may well start admiring America by virtue of what he sees and hears on HCR. Compassion shown is never wasted, imo. This FSB handle (fake identity) is my only direct link to Russia. We can have a reverse influence which can insidiously trickle back to them, call it Mission Impossible or the Counterintelligence of Love Dept. Who knows what effect these conversations are producing in the actual Russian puppets working for the FSB. Underneath the day job still lies a human.

In every aspect of life, the objective is to establish and maintain a position, an attitude, which agrees with your principles. In other words, to face the new object from a place of integrity.

Not Engage: Excellent choice.

Engage: Do so cautiously, with clear intent, and remain firmly in your power. Targeted posts. Continual engagement not recommended, unless we operate as a tag team, like they do.

Now a repost of TJ from a few hours ago.

P.S. On my drive home from the clinic, I got a clear hit that this is a rapacious larger operation, not a sole operator. I continue to see images of streets and buildings in Moscow, and once in awhile, I am reading one of their posts and I am actually seeing the Russian perspective pretending to be non-Russian. Anyway, mounting quantities of visual intuitive evidence.

[begin TJ post]

TJ:

Not to beat a dead troll or anything, but after watching this little Mr. Leon drama unfold for some time now I vacillate between two possibilities. On the one hand I can’t shake the feeling that this specific figure “Leon” might well be who he claims to be which makes him a kind of accidental troll who has just consumed too much right wing media in Canada or the US and now he is unwittingly parroting Putin’s talking points. In my limited reading about the Russian troll farms I understand that they have different teams assigned to target different groups using entirely different playbooks for each. With the MAGA-nation the goal might be to feed the hate, but with groups such as the literate and generally progressive readers of this blog the strategy is different—infiltrate slowly, develop a brand and bonds, foster loyalty before sowing seeds of dissension and doubt. The Russians are masterful propagandists. We should never underestimate their sophistication. Which leads me to my second speculation. I did notice that some of the linguistic peculiarities “Leon” demonstrated in earlier replies seem to have suddenly vanished in later comments. The aggression/latent sadism was suddenly dialed up and grammar and mechanics improved. Even the idiom is a bit different later on. Perhaps this is a second shift Leon or a floor supervisor stepping in to distract from the concerted efforts of those attempting to out foreign influence. I have zero interest in feeding trolls, neither the ones working for the ruble nor their sad North American dupes working for free, but I do find the discussion of the problem in general incredibly important and worthwhile because once again our openness and gullibility is being exploited. I really appreciate those of you patrolling for the trolls because you help us to remain aware that we are absolutely under attack by a foreign nation savvy enough to exploit the unhealed wounds of a civil war. It is important not to engage them too deeply though because once it’s clear they are not open to genuine dialogue further engagement just allows them to repeat their talking points.

[end TJ post]

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