As in William F. Buckley's Ivy League predecessors so largely invested in Hitler's Waffen SS?
Leading U.S. banks, communications giants, and car, rubber, and petroleum companies hugely allied with Hitler through the 1930s -- almost all these elites legacies from the Ivy League.
And today -- in fact since the early 1990s, when Ivy Leaguers led the charge by U.S. finance to invest in the Soviet Union's former nomenklatura -- today, same Ivy League sees just about half its students graduating with degrees in finance.
We worry about the fat orange guy vying to lead a new, poisonous religion now in the U.S. But haven't our billionaires been doing that since the Powell memo from 1971 on has had them converting our schools ("higher" and K-12) to their vulgarities?
Still, yes, lin -- point well taken as to William F. Buckley vs. James Baldwin.
Just like he must have his putrid name on all his conquests (that he acknowledges). Should go back to Drumpf. Claim your ancestry, but trump does fit as this old definition proves. “Trump’er-y, n. Fraud, deceit; anything calculated to deceive by false show; anything externally splendid but intrinsically of little value; things worn out and of no value…”. Maybe old Friedrich Drumpf made the change with malice afore thought and a smirk for all descendents.
I used to watch William F. Buckley, Jr. on Firing Line, not because I agreed with any of what he said, but to see what those he was willing to bring on with very different views had to say. I much preferred Bill Moyers for those he could bring on his programs, carefully enough to maintain access to so many others in powerful positions by enabling extended conversations a bit differently than Tim Russert could do more aggressively (while still effectively making it difficult to avoid appearing on his Meet the Press show).
Then there is Kelly Corrigan, whom I really appreciate for her far kinder way of bringing out the better parts of humanity in individuals across a pretty full spectrum of individuals I can either almost totally agree with as well as ones I feel have created or worsened problems I have strong feelings about the results of, no matter how well they were intended (most do seem to have at least meant well).
My wife and I, independently came to the same conclusion about the William F. Buckley, James Baldwin Debate though. We both found it the most sickening performance by Buckley we had seen or even could imagine. After we spent a few hours playing it and replaying portions to try to grasp just how bad it was, we simultaneously said we wished Buckley had been born Black and under similar circumstances (sort of like some children who were captured by Native Americans and didn't want to come back to the White society).
I couldn't get through Atlas Shrugged (even if I considered flogging myself), but with my wife's help was able to finally get through that most disgusting of his interviews.
I forgot Phil Donahue, who's access seems an early example of more aggressive cancel culture than used on Bill Moyers. Matt Taibbi was another I watched before he was effectively cancelled on MSM.
P.S. I do like having gone back to Firing Line sporadically to see Margaret Hoover into a far more questioner of those "conservatives" many might assume she would be closer to.
So, which is it? Are US “elite” universities bastions of soulless capitalism or of socialist “cancel culture?” Or just a bunch of really smart strivers trying to figure out how to save the world and be happy at the same time? It’s all of the above. Let’s not pigeonhole the best and the brightest - they really are our hope for the future and we need our institutions to be as diverse and inclusive as possible.
"The Best and the Brightest (1972) is an account by journalist David Halberstam of the origins of the Vietnam War published by Random House. The focus of the book is on the foreign policy crafted by academics and intellectuals who were in President John F. Kennedy's administration, and the consequences of those policies in Vietnam. The title referred to Kennedy's "whiz kids"—leaders of industry and academia brought into the administration—whom Halberstam characterized as insisting on "brilliant policies that defied common sense" in Vietnam, often against the advice of career U.S. Department of State employees."
Thank you, lin, from a former U.S. Army Vietnamese translator/interpreter.
Before I went into the Army (2 Sept. 1969) I tended to believe our elites, a tendency which experience totally reversed for me by the time I came out (4 April 1972).
I am glad you were able to complete your mission and come home. ThankYou for your continuing engagement.
My public high school was renowned for producing Westinghouse Science winners. And sending middle-class Brooklyn kids to the Ivies and other schools of excellence.
These students certainly would fit the moniker 'best and brightest.' Some went on to do big and some to do good things. Many found a niche which fit them. Some crashed and burned. Not all that different from the majority of us who were not singled out as spectacular by the reigning standards.
The construct of 'elites' and how it has been deployed by propagandists is another story.
Yes 🙌 see it ! James Baldwin vs William F Buckley: A legendary debate from 1965. The legendary debate that laid down US political lines on race, justice and history. Republished with...
Thank you for posting that! Buckley's attempt to gain the upper hand by using semantics had no power over Baldwin who spoke from the heart and experience!
Buckley's strategy was to deploy markers of American snobism and coded racism, presuming a kinship and clubbishness with his Oxford audience. They didn't buy it. Buckley, so used to lording it over his crowd, failed to read the room.
Baldwin spoke from and about his personal experience. He did not directly argue his side of the debate, as much as demonstrate its truth.
Thanks, National Educational Television…. This country has become so immersed in vulgarity via money driving media that norms have devolved.
Oxford Debates has another one about the morality of nuclear weapons between the Prime Minister of New Zealand vs a representative of the US, Jerry Falwell, ha. Friends in NZ told me about it but such doesn’t generate sponsors here, so no broadcast. The internet saves such but only for curious minds. Thanks again for the link
"How did so many elites get so vulgar?
Get?
There is nothing more vulgar than William F. Buckley's attempted take down of James Baldwin in their Oxford debate.
https://youtu.be/5Tek9h3a5wQ?si=MAyoyqk86VrgwMsc
Easy, lin -- with the "nothing more vulgar" tilt.
How about, instead, just "as vulgar"?
As in William F. Buckley's Ivy League predecessors so largely invested in Hitler's Waffen SS?
Leading U.S. banks, communications giants, and car, rubber, and petroleum companies hugely allied with Hitler through the 1930s -- almost all these elites legacies from the Ivy League.
And today -- in fact since the early 1990s, when Ivy Leaguers led the charge by U.S. finance to invest in the Soviet Union's former nomenklatura -- today, same Ivy League sees just about half its students graduating with degrees in finance.
We worry about the fat orange guy vying to lead a new, poisonous religion now in the U.S. But haven't our billionaires been doing that since the Powell memo from 1971 on has had them converting our schools ("higher" and K-12) to their vulgarities?
Still, yes, lin -- point well taken as to William F. Buckley vs. James Baldwin.
ThankYou. Yes. Point taken. Good points. Best and Brightest. Ha!
Yes. Trump did not create today's GOP. He just put his brand on it.
Just like he must have his putrid name on all his conquests (that he acknowledges). Should go back to Drumpf. Claim your ancestry, but trump does fit as this old definition proves. “Trump’er-y, n. Fraud, deceit; anything calculated to deceive by false show; anything externally splendid but intrinsically of little value; things worn out and of no value…”. Maybe old Friedrich Drumpf made the change with malice afore thought and a smirk for all descendents.
HaHa! Thanks for 'Trumpery'.
Wish I could post the copy I found, part was good enough though
I used to watch William F. Buckley, Jr. on Firing Line, not because I agreed with any of what he said, but to see what those he was willing to bring on with very different views had to say. I much preferred Bill Moyers for those he could bring on his programs, carefully enough to maintain access to so many others in powerful positions by enabling extended conversations a bit differently than Tim Russert could do more aggressively (while still effectively making it difficult to avoid appearing on his Meet the Press show).
Then there is Kelly Corrigan, whom I really appreciate for her far kinder way of bringing out the better parts of humanity in individuals across a pretty full spectrum of individuals I can either almost totally agree with as well as ones I feel have created or worsened problems I have strong feelings about the results of, no matter how well they were intended (most do seem to have at least meant well).
My wife and I, independently came to the same conclusion about the William F. Buckley, James Baldwin Debate though. We both found it the most sickening performance by Buckley we had seen or even could imagine. After we spent a few hours playing it and replaying portions to try to grasp just how bad it was, we simultaneously said we wished Buckley had been born Black and under similar circumstances (sort of like some children who were captured by Native Americans and didn't want to come back to the White society).
The difficulty of watching it reminded me of when Buckley told Charlie Rose about the difficulty of reading Atlas Shrugged (I believe answering if he had read it), that he had, but had to flog himself to get through it. See https://www.openculture.com/2011/05/william_f_buckley_flogged_himself_to_get_through_iatlas_shruggedi.html
I couldn't get through Atlas Shrugged (even if I considered flogging myself), but with my wife's help was able to finally get through that most disgusting of his interviews.
I forgot Phil Donahue, who's access seems an early example of more aggressive cancel culture than used on Bill Moyers. Matt Taibbi was another I watched before he was effectively cancelled on MSM.
P.S. I do like having gone back to Firing Line sporadically to see Margaret Hoover into a far more questioner of those "conservatives" many might assume she would be closer to.
Buckley was the arrogant Repub that made my skin crawl, back in the day.
So, which is it? Are US “elite” universities bastions of soulless capitalism or of socialist “cancel culture?” Or just a bunch of really smart strivers trying to figure out how to save the world and be happy at the same time? It’s all of the above. Let’s not pigeonhole the best and the brightest - they really are our hope for the future and we need our institutions to be as diverse and inclusive as possible.
"The Best and the Brightest (1972) is an account by journalist David Halberstam of the origins of the Vietnam War published by Random House. The focus of the book is on the foreign policy crafted by academics and intellectuals who were in President John F. Kennedy's administration, and the consequences of those policies in Vietnam. The title referred to Kennedy's "whiz kids"—leaders of industry and academia brought into the administration—whom Halberstam characterized as insisting on "brilliant policies that defied common sense" in Vietnam, often against the advice of career U.S. Department of State employees."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Best_and_the_Brightest
Thank you, lin, from a former U.S. Army Vietnamese translator/interpreter.
Before I went into the Army (2 Sept. 1969) I tended to believe our elites, a tendency which experience totally reversed for me by the time I came out (4 April 1972).
I am glad you were able to complete your mission and come home. ThankYou for your continuing engagement.
My public high school was renowned for producing Westinghouse Science winners. And sending middle-class Brooklyn kids to the Ivies and other schools of excellence.
These students certainly would fit the moniker 'best and brightest.' Some went on to do big and some to do good things. Many found a niche which fit them. Some crashed and burned. Not all that different from the majority of us who were not singled out as spectacular by the reigning standards.
The construct of 'elites' and how it has been deployed by propagandists is another story.
Yes 🙌 see it ! James Baldwin vs William F Buckley: A legendary debate from 1965. The legendary debate that laid down US political lines on race, justice and history. Republished with...
Durée de la vidéo: 59 min
Thank you for posting that! Buckley's attempt to gain the upper hand by using semantics had no power over Baldwin who spoke from the heart and experience!
Buckley's strategy was to deploy markers of American snobism and coded racism, presuming a kinship and clubbishness with his Oxford audience. They didn't buy it. Buckley, so used to lording it over his crowd, failed to read the room.
Baldwin spoke from and about his personal experience. He did not directly argue his side of the debate, as much as demonstrate its truth.
Thanks, National Educational Television…. This country has become so immersed in vulgarity via money driving media that norms have devolved.
Oxford Debates has another one about the morality of nuclear weapons between the Prime Minister of New Zealand vs a representative of the US, Jerry Falwell, ha. Friends in NZ told me about it but such doesn’t generate sponsors here, so no broadcast. The internet saves such but only for curious minds. Thanks again for the link