Back in April, when America had reached the unthinkable level of 50,000 dead from Covid-19, news broke that Trump had been briefed way back in January on how deadly the coronavirus was but had not acted on that information.
Thanx for the very informative timeline to the Woodward interviews. We should all be thankful that he got this info on tape “over the course of 18 interviews.” Maybe that will shut up the Internet Naysayers who lit up twitter yesterday saying that Woodward was as guilty as the President of the United States for not releasing that info in February or March. Had he exposed those initial interviews the subsequent interviews would not have happened.
I have been countering as some journalists have that Bob Woodward is a writer, not the leader of the U.S. Of those thousands of ppl who have died, many of us have not because we listened to the experts in the field of medicine and not the idiot occupying the White House. Likewise, the idiot’s cult base would not have listened to Woodward’s facts any more than they listened to the facts of those medical experts at that time and would have still defied the recommended precautions. Even yesterday there were reports of denial in light of Woodward’s revelations.
I don't fucking care what culpability may possibly attach to Woodward! In no event is it remotely as large as that attaching to Trump. I'm happy to discuss journalistic ethics after the election. Doing so now is taking our eyes off the prize.
I watch this one every so often for a good laugh. It is sad, for sure.....yet, you have to laugh because it just helps put those followers in perspective.
Not only is he a particularly bad and dangerous individual...full of his own "special qualities"...he is totally naive if he thought he could charm Woodward out of " doing a Nixon" on him. I'm breathless in front of such fantasmagoric stupidity.
Francois Hollande, EX-president of France thought that he could charm a couple of French journalists throughout his "reign" according them "secret" interviews. They produced a book about 6 months before he was fighting for re-election from the exclusive interviews that they taped with him. The book was entitled "What a President should never say" . Hollande was forced to back out of his re-election bid as a result rather than face total humiliation. He disappeared into a well deserved nonentity. I think we can reserve for Trump his well deserved fate too.
The difference is that Trump has a base of people that would follow him into a death chamber before they admitted he is unfit as president. The French were neither as loyal or as stupid.
Following is an interestiing word. I come back to greek mythology and the Trojan Horse. Many of "his people" see in him a fabulous opportunity to both make a lot of money raping and pillaging the state, organizing life to protect their current and future wealth and making sure their kind can feed off the people for evermore. Once in the driving seat they don't need Trump anymore.
I believe you only refer to those who already have money and power. Many of his "base" have neither, but continue to flock to him like lambs to the slaughter. They cannot necessarily make more money because of him, and they have no definable wealth to protect. That population is more scary to me than the obvious hangers-on who are only interested in Trump as their puppet.
They are going to be extremely disappointed, even mad as hell both at Trump and the rest of the world...humiliated that they were mistaken in believing in their "messiah" who both lied to them and was disgusted by them and humiliated even more as for the rest of the world their blind, dumb and deaf niavety was plain to see. Biden is going to be obliged to help them retake a place in society...not as in their dreams but alongside everyone else.
Yes indeed as Andrew Johnson, Lincoln's then Democratic Party VP, took over after the Republican President's assassination and undid practically all that Lincoln had achieved and all of for what the North fought and won the Civil War setting back equality and human rights by at least 100 if not 150 years.
Stuart, you’re speaking to the choir here. We know this will eventually happen, but look at the damage in the mean time. Scary and nervous times we are in.
Me too! The son of a friend took a year off travelling and working on lumber caps and suchlike from Alaska to Florida and came back summer 2016 convinced that Trump would win.
On the streets and without any money after bankruptcy, serving a sentence for state crimes (after Pence has pardoned the resigning President for federal offences) and paying out to all those who will chase him through the courts.
I have heard others offer that position; that Trump will resign just prior to inauguration and have Pence pardon him. Let's just hope that inauguration is for a Democratic president, and not the current one.
I believe you cannot pardon for state offenses, only federal ones....and Cyrus Vance Jr is pursuing Trump just like the crocodile with the ticking clock followed Captain Hook.
I wonder about civil litigation. The families of the many who needlessly died (wrongful death) because of deliberate mishandling of the pandemic as well as those who recovered but could have long-lasting negative residual effects (presidential malpractice?) Seriously.
Take away his stage. A lonely cell, cut off from access to social media would be hell for him. With no one to posture and preen for he would wither and die.
Talking to Woodward was the idiot side of idiot savant, and fortunate for how he has further revealed himself. I don't think trump is capable of humiliation, which derives from humility. The non-entity part would be hell for a narcissist!
I wonder about the "savant" bit but fully agree with the rest. In my mind he of course doesn't feel the humiliation...or much else...but will be incensed that others would consider him humiliated. A classic case...à la chinoise...of extreme anger at loss of face and looking for someone to blame.
I wonder if Trump thought Woodward would write something more akin to “Write It When I’m Gone” written by Thomas DeFrank about Gerald Ford. If so, he miscalculated.
He's capable of believing in his own illusions of course but he certainly won't change his opinion of himself because others don't agree. For him we will all be more stupid and worthless than even he imagined. Self justification and promotion of his persona is the only game that his limited ability to control his own psychic impulses will allow. Without that his conscious mind would fall down an enormous hole into his unconscious depths.
I couldn't care less what happens to Trump after he leaves office. I'm concerned about the rest of us - restoring the rule of law, reducing the excessive power of the presidency and the senate majority leader, reducing the ability of 5% of the population to control the federal government, etc etc
Just remember what the Wharton professor whose class Trump was allowed to AUDIT (being too stupid to get into Wharton): "Donald Trump was the dumbest fucking student who ever walked in my classroom." Some. Things. Never. Change.
By now, all of us in someway have been negatively impacted by COVID 19. We’ve lost a family member or dear friend. We’ve lost jobs or are helping to support someone who has lost a job. At the very least, our lives have been disrupted by self isolation and wearing uncomfortable masks when we do have to venture out. (Except, of course, those who still believe this is all a hoax to infringe on their rights and that every single one of the dead - 190,000 and counting - were at death’s door anyway.) It’s infuriating to learn, and have proven by a reporter’s recordings, that our President knew the severity of this threat back in late January, downplayed it to the American people and did virtually nothing behind the scenes to combat it, other than “wishing it away.” Some models say that 85% of the deaths could have been avoided with some strict country-wide preventive measures taken in February or early March. Have I used the word infuriating yet? And what of the Pandemic Response team that was dismantled and the Pandemic playbook that was ignored by the Trump administration. Am I piling on if I suggest that proactive measures by this team in 2019, when the virus was first detected abroad, could have led to zero impact in the United States and that most of us would have never uttered the words “COVID 19”, let alone have our 2020 lives impacted in anyway? Have I used the word infuriating yet?
In light of these latest revelations, I have exhausted my irate stupefaction and must spin 180 degrees around to my compassionate side (as the former producer and co-writer of "Mister Rogers' Neighborhood") wondering in profound sadness what form of child abuse transformed a presumably innocent young child named Donald into this grotesque creature. Innumerable books will continue to be written chronicling the awfulness of the man and the devastation he has wrought, but I do hope for one truly definitive portrait of how such a crime against a child might have been accomplished.
I thought Mary Trump's book provided a pretty good look, but maybe that's because I already had some knowledge of how that works. For those lucky enough to never have been exposed to that kind of twisted abuse, maybe something more of a deep dive is required.
Still, explaining what created him doesn't offer much hope to those his policies are destroying daily. Not that it's not significant, just not nearly adequate.
And that doesn't even address his cult followers, who are more like the students in the famous experiment (since, I believe disputed?) who administered shocks to their fellows. Perhaps our entire society is much more damaged than we ever knew?
Sandra, I believe his base is so fearful of changes to their "white world" that they don't know how to act any other way. Dualism never brings change-only pain. I once felt compassion for him and his situation but not anymore. My own father was beaten in the head with a baseball bat, numerous occasions, kept in the trunk of the car while his alcoholic father went to bars, had every toy ever given to him taken and destroyed before his eyes. I could go on but the point is made. My father was not an abuser, not a drinker. He rose above all that to be as loving as he knew how- and that love was awesome!
Kay, I think the difference between your dad and Trump is the timing and the type of abuse. According to Mary's book, Trump's mother had to be hospitalized for almost a year when he was between 2 and 3 years old. This is a critical time of development for a child. From what I can determine, this is the point in a child's life when they are just beginning to become 'a person' in their own right, yet still need their mother, even a hands off one like Mrs. Trump apparently was.
The mean-spirited, malicious abuse meted out by Fred came much later.
Yes, the first 3 years are the developmental time for forming a primary emotional attachment that becomes the foundation for healthy functioning thereafter. A significant disruption in that attachment often results in a child's having issues with security, trust, and self regulation of negative emotions. Sounds like trump's mother was already not emotionally available to him, attuning to his needs, so the stage was set even before she was hospitalized. With insecurity, he may have been more susceptible to over-mirroring and entitlement that leads to narcissism and lack of empathy.
My dad's mom died when he was 2 and his sister 3. No, I have no compassion, empathy or understanding of Trump's decision to enact his rage and hate humanity or the earth.
I believe Mary Trump gave us a glimpse of why he is the way he is. That does not mean we should explain away the evil he has perpetrated. He had a choice. Clearly he made the wrong one.
And all the robber barons that have preceded him in US History and indeed times like empire building, industrial revolution, slave trading and Victorian England. These are the English aristocratic Merchant Ventures that sewed up the southern plantation economy and controlled the Confederate states...until now except for a brief period of "uncertainty" under Lincoln.
I wonder if Melania has any thoughts about her place in such a long list of horrors.
A friend of mine read the book about Melania written by her long time associate, and she says no, Melania is as bad as her husband. She is a co-conspirator.
One thing I have long since understood: no matter how well I knew the man, never ever presume to have the slightest idea what Fred might have said or done. He inhabited a sphere of grace and originality and generosity utterly beyond my ken and capability. ❤️
She is a pistol! And very much her own woman. But I know that Joanne would agree with me in declining to speculate on Fred's like response to contemporary happenings. I can speculate, however, that both she and I would agree that Fred (a lifelong self-respecting Republican) would lament the "family values" demonstrated by his cowardly contemporary fellow "Republicans" in Congress in their shunning truth and compassion.
I am sure most readers would agree that every day you think it cannot get crazier with 45 and his administration. But it does. This won’t make a dent in his cult followers but perhaps enough voters can be swayed to vote him and the republican enablers out of office. I watched the watergate hearings in college, but this presidency tops those antics by a long shot
According to what Lawrence O'Donnell had tonight, most of Trump's conversations with Woodward is just the two of them, no staff, so the staff has no idea what's going to be in the next tape that drops. And with 55 days, there isn't enough time to get out from under, and we're now in the period where even the morons are paying attention. The Biden campaign already has an ad out tonight using him from the tape about lying.. They've got the money to run ads from now to November 3 of him on tape, damning himself.
“I don’t want people to be frightened. I don’t want to create panic,” Trump said. “Certainly I’m not going to drive this country or the world into a frenzy.”
Does he think we don’t remember “Liberate Michigan. Protect your second amendment rights”. Or the demon lady dr. Or the no mask super spreader events including the RNC at the White House. Or that Dr Fauci and family now need security because of all the threats. Or that almost a quarter million people in the US will have died by Nov 3. Or that he threatens not to go quietly when he loses the election. Frenzy and panic are the snake oil he sells.
The only thing that frightens me, sets my dial on panic mode, and into a virtual frenzy, is 45's presence in the WH, his face on the front pages of all news sites/articles, knowing that the panic button is within his reach!
Also unfit to govern, of course, is every Republican in Congress who has aided and abetted Trump over the past three and a half years. At any point, Mitch McConnell and his mob of thugs could have put a stop to Trump's gross betrayal of American citizens. Instead, Moscow Mitch lived up to his new moniker. Laughably, and not unsurprising, Trump's main cheerleader, Lindsey Graham, has been thrown under the bus by the man he has defended time and again. If the results weren't so tragic, this would almost be amusing.
As the days unravel, I feel yesterday was a paramount day for our Country where Trumps deceit is laid bare by his own words. Not hearsay nor statements left for interpretation. His own words. Although the right wing will do their absolute best to spin this, the tapes are the receipts. As Woodward and Bernstein brought down a President in the past, I feel Woodward is on course to do this again. I don't feel this will turn Trump voters against him, but I do think this may be the stimulus that with get the "sofa Democrats" out to vote. Thank you Mr. Woodward and thank you Heather for showing us the path.
Why is America such a *kill the messenger* culture? People (including POTUS 🙄) are trying to pace the blame of Covid on Woodward. Or using the fact he didn’t come out earlier as a rationale that it’s *not that serious or he would’ve said something sooner*. (DJT Twitter feed)
I’m fighting this out on 3 Facebook threads.
1. Donald Trump lied. He lied to everyohe, not just *the Libs*. Luckily for us *Libs* we listened to science - mostly - when it was available to us.
2. The onus to come forward was on people in the administration. Period.
3. Mike Pence knew exactly what was going on and came out and lied to America . Every fucking day. For months. We pay his salary.
4. Dr. Deborah Birx knew what was going on and sat there and took it, at best, and, at worst, obfuscated just as much as the rest of them. We pay her salary.
5. Alex Azar knew. He lied to the American people. We pay his salary.
6. Dr. Robert Redfield knew and continued to deny it. We pay his salary
7. Richard O’Brien knew IN JANUARY that this would be the toughest challenge Trump would face in his presidency. He knew. He said nothin to the public. We pay his salary.
8. Dr. Anthony S. Fauci knew and TRIED TO FUCKING TELL US. They hampered him at every turn. They made it so he had to get approval before speaking to the public. They refuted everything he said. We pay his salary.
9. Bob Woodward is a journalist he told the truth, after the fact. That’s his job. He says he didn’t believe Trump when he was talking all this smack back in February and I believe him. Anyone who heard what was coming out of IQ45’s mouth in public would have doubts. Especially someone who has spent the majority f their professional career writing about presidents and the fucked up shit they do.
The fact is... DJT felt all the MAGAs out there are stupid snowflakes who. couldn’t handle the truth. He lied TO THEM, They castigate us for watching MSM, but, who had the right *spin* on this story? The president or the media? Closing in on 200,000 Cofid-19 deaths here in America. I think the media had it right, and according to his own words, Trump did too. And since MAGA didn’t listen to the media then, why do you think they’ll listen now? They don’t care if the apes are in Trump’s on voice. Stop being delusional. Nothing would’ve changed.
I totally agree. If Woodward had tried to publish his facts one at a time as he collected them, they would have been lost on a sea of cries of hoax. As time went on, I’m sure he got more cooperation and trust from 45 and his team of bullies and toadies who began to see the end of the trail.
I think you hit all the high points very well! Especially about Fauci! And now they're saying that it's *Woodward's* fault?!?! Good Lord, these people just have no concept of logic, do they? SMH!
No they do not. Nor do they have any shame. And that is a big part of the problem. If these people operated under any form of recognizable moral code, there might be a chance for redemption. I’m still waiting to see a whiff of the teachings of Jesus, whom they claim to love and revere, make an appearance with any of these dudes.
Unfortunately the third major story is THE major story, and will remain so for the remainder of our lives. We can no longer stop the impact of climate change. It will be devastating. We can mitigate if we move quickly
I’m shocked by Trump’s candor which makes me wonder what news story he is trying to deflect attention from.
In 2016 the sordid story about Trump and a porn star broke just before the election.
The story that didn’t make headlines around that time but should have is that Trump and Jeffrey Epstein have a victim in common. In Oct 2016 PBS News hour published a list of assault allegations against Trump. The list includes a victim who “.....claims she was repeatedly raped by Trump and Jeffery Epstein at Epstein’s New York City apartment in 1994, when she was 13 years old”. (Source: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/assault-allegations-donald-trump-recapped)
Trump is exceptionally good at manipulating the conversation by dominating the news cycle.
So, as shocking as the Woodward tapes are - my assumption is that there is a bigger, more shocking story that he is trying to distract our attention from.
Even separate from trump supporter death threats, it takes significant corroboration of evidence and perseverance of the victim for a successful prosecution of a sexual assault perpetrator. It's sad that the majority of sexual assaults are not even reported, let alone prosecuted. Hopefully the unnamed victims will be able to find vicarious justice in the prosecution of Ghislaine Maxwell.
And with this type of crime, it will be a long time before restorative justice becomes the norm.
I don't even know what restorative justice could be in the case of rape. It's bad when it happens, then every time it's talked about it's bad all over again. The only appropriate punishment I've ever seen was in a science fiction story, where the perpetrator was condemned to relive the assault from the point of view of the victim, over and over. In that story, the perp had not known it was wrong, so if he ever realized how wrong he had been, the spell would release him.
So glad He called Bob Woodward. I wonder if he is just stuupid or if it’s a piece of the puzzle leading to him continuing to follow the Nixon pattern, to resign and have Pence pardon him.
Laura Palmer, one of my friends was surprised that Trump's staff allowed him to talk to Bob Woodward like that. My response was aren't you glad they did.
Why would I think that? He's too stupid and disorganized. I said he was semi-feral. How does that relate to him being The Godfather? (maybe I'm missing something not being a godfather fan.)
President for a day or week or month would be the pinnacle of Pence's career. And he can always hope for the exposure to help him run for a full term later.
Pence would tell you that Jesus forgives all. If he goes along, he gets to be President in the history books, and the oligarchs will reward him for faithfulness.
Yes,! Joan. That forgiveness thing is one of the keys to decoding the Evangelical support of Trump. Watch the documentary, The Family. It will explain how they tolerate/rationalize Trump's behavior-past and present. The greater the sin the more God forgives...leading to the distorted theological conclusion that God has "anointed"Trump for this moment in time. Very disturbing and disturbed thinking.
They conveniently skip the part where the sinner acknowledges their sin and tries to do better. DJT is far from St. Augustine. They also apply the idea selectively - Trump’s sins are forgiven but not those of his political opponents.
Wow, just wow. The lies are being exposed faster and faster, like bombshells, and I can't help but think that his base will continue to blindly support him even despite these new revelations. If Russian bounties on our troops and his disrespect for our military did not move them, I sadly doubt even his lies being revealed about Covid-19 will change their minds.
Thanx for the very informative timeline to the Woodward interviews. We should all be thankful that he got this info on tape “over the course of 18 interviews.” Maybe that will shut up the Internet Naysayers who lit up twitter yesterday saying that Woodward was as guilty as the President of the United States for not releasing that info in February or March. Had he exposed those initial interviews the subsequent interviews would not have happened.
I have been countering as some journalists have that Bob Woodward is a writer, not the leader of the U.S. Of those thousands of ppl who have died, many of us have not because we listened to the experts in the field of medicine and not the idiot occupying the White House. Likewise, the idiot’s cult base would not have listened to Woodward’s facts any more than they listened to the facts of those medical experts at that time and would have still defied the recommended precautions. Even yesterday there were reports of denial in light of Woodward’s revelations.
Blaming Woodward is purely a diversionary tactic. We ALL know where the blame ultimately lies.
I don't fucking care what culpability may possibly attach to Woodward! In no event is it remotely as large as that attaching to Trump. I'm happy to discuss journalistic ethics after the election. Doing so now is taking our eyes off the prize.
I agree completely.
You don't know how true this is! If you can stand to watch all of this u-Tube video, you will see how "dense" (that is a mild word) these people are.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4b-dannQQ0Q
I watch this one every so often for a good laugh. It is sad, for sure.....yet, you have to laugh because it just helps put those followers in perspective.
Yes, and the publication date of his book is on target to eliminate the crux of the problem.
Not only is he a particularly bad and dangerous individual...full of his own "special qualities"...he is totally naive if he thought he could charm Woodward out of " doing a Nixon" on him. I'm breathless in front of such fantasmagoric stupidity.
Francois Hollande, EX-president of France thought that he could charm a couple of French journalists throughout his "reign" according them "secret" interviews. They produced a book about 6 months before he was fighting for re-election from the exclusive interviews that they taped with him. The book was entitled "What a President should never say" . Hollande was forced to back out of his re-election bid as a result rather than face total humiliation. He disappeared into a well deserved nonentity. I think we can reserve for Trump his well deserved fate too.
The difference is that Trump has a base of people that would follow him into a death chamber before they admitted he is unfit as president. The French were neither as loyal or as stupid.
Following is an interestiing word. I come back to greek mythology and the Trojan Horse. Many of "his people" see in him a fabulous opportunity to both make a lot of money raping and pillaging the state, organizing life to protect their current and future wealth and making sure their kind can feed off the people for evermore. Once in the driving seat they don't need Trump anymore.
I believe you only refer to those who already have money and power. Many of his "base" have neither, but continue to flock to him like lambs to the slaughter. They cannot necessarily make more money because of him, and they have no definable wealth to protect. That population is more scary to me than the obvious hangers-on who are only interested in Trump as their puppet.
They are going to be extremely disappointed, even mad as hell both at Trump and the rest of the world...humiliated that they were mistaken in believing in their "messiah" who both lied to them and was disgusted by them and humiliated even more as for the rest of the world their blind, dumb and deaf niavety was plain to see. Biden is going to be obliged to help them retake a place in society...not as in their dreams but alongside everyone else.
"Biden is going to be obliged to help them retake a place in society...not as in their dreams but alongside everyone else."
How'd that work out after the last civil war?
Refighting that one because of the loose ends.
Yes indeed as Andrew Johnson, Lincoln's then Democratic Party VP, took over after the Republican President's assassination and undid practically all that Lincoln had achieved and all of for what the North fought and won the Civil War setting back equality and human rights by at least 100 if not 150 years.
Stuart, you’re speaking to the choir here. We know this will eventually happen, but look at the damage in the mean time. Scary and nervous times we are in.
My first real scare was in Lancaster, PA where I was driving behind a car with a bumper sticker that read: "I follow Trump".
This was way before the election.
Still seeing trump bumper stickers in Texas. Fewer signs in yards though.
Once they're stuck on your car it's a bind to scape them off..not very pretty results...but yard signs come down easily..just a kick will suffice!
Yes, Daniel, I live across the Susquehanna from you in York, PA. We get lots of signs by folks who follow Trump. Oh my!
Me too! The son of a friend took a year off travelling and working on lumber caps and suchlike from Alaska to Florida and came back summer 2016 convinced that Trump would win.
The signs were there. Confederate flags, cold stares in gas stations, attracting coldness when I'd get leave nyc.
" I'm breathless in front of such fantasmagoric stupidity. "
Best line of the day.
20 years in the worst prison possible, "in the general population."
On the streets and without any money after bankruptcy, serving a sentence for state crimes (after Pence has pardoned the resigning President for federal offences) and paying out to all those who will chase him through the courts.
I have heard others offer that position; that Trump will resign just prior to inauguration and have Pence pardon him. Let's just hope that inauguration is for a Democratic president, and not the current one.
I believe you cannot pardon for state offenses, only federal ones....and Cyrus Vance Jr is pursuing Trump just like the crocodile with the ticking clock followed Captain Hook.
And, if Mike Pence isn't the perfect Mr. Smee, then tell me who is!
I call him Uriah Heep.
Yes, state crimes cannot be pardoned by the president.
I wonder about civil litigation. The families of the many who needlessly died (wrongful death) because of deliberate mishandling of the pandemic as well as those who recovered but could have long-lasting negative residual effects (presidential malpractice?) Seriously.
I hope firstly that there IS an inauguration and then that it is consecrating Biden's very clear victory.
Take away his stage. A lonely cell, cut off from access to social media would be hell for him. With no one to posture and preen for he would wither and die.
Tell him everyday his ratings have plummeted. 😝
He might have a stroke on the spot. Who do we have to talk to about making that happen?
Talking to Woodward was the idiot side of idiot savant, and fortunate for how he has further revealed himself. I don't think trump is capable of humiliation, which derives from humility. The non-entity part would be hell for a narcissist!
I wonder about the "savant" bit but fully agree with the rest. In my mind he of course doesn't feel the humiliation...or much else...but will be incensed that others would consider him humiliated. A classic case...à la chinoise...of extreme anger at loss of face and looking for someone to blame.
Trump's vanity is his own nemesis.
I wonder if Trump thought Woodward would write something more akin to “Write It When I’m Gone” written by Thomas DeFrank about Gerald Ford. If so, he miscalculated.
He's capable of believing in his own illusions of course but he certainly won't change his opinion of himself because others don't agree. For him we will all be more stupid and worthless than even he imagined. Self justification and promotion of his persona is the only game that his limited ability to control his own psychic impulses will allow. Without that his conscious mind would fall down an enormous hole into his unconscious depths.
I couldn't care less what happens to Trump after he leaves office. I'm concerned about the rest of us - restoring the rule of law, reducing the excessive power of the presidency and the senate majority leader, reducing the ability of 5% of the population to control the federal government, etc etc
Just remember what the Wharton professor whose class Trump was allowed to AUDIT (being too stupid to get into Wharton): "Donald Trump was the dumbest fucking student who ever walked in my classroom." Some. Things. Never. Change.
"John Barron", Trump's "publicist", thought he was dealing with the gang at Page Six back in the 1980s.
By now, all of us in someway have been negatively impacted by COVID 19. We’ve lost a family member or dear friend. We’ve lost jobs or are helping to support someone who has lost a job. At the very least, our lives have been disrupted by self isolation and wearing uncomfortable masks when we do have to venture out. (Except, of course, those who still believe this is all a hoax to infringe on their rights and that every single one of the dead - 190,000 and counting - were at death’s door anyway.) It’s infuriating to learn, and have proven by a reporter’s recordings, that our President knew the severity of this threat back in late January, downplayed it to the American people and did virtually nothing behind the scenes to combat it, other than “wishing it away.” Some models say that 85% of the deaths could have been avoided with some strict country-wide preventive measures taken in February or early March. Have I used the word infuriating yet? And what of the Pandemic Response team that was dismantled and the Pandemic playbook that was ignored by the Trump administration. Am I piling on if I suggest that proactive measures by this team in 2019, when the virus was first detected abroad, could have led to zero impact in the United States and that most of us would have never uttered the words “COVID 19”, let alone have our 2020 lives impacted in anyway? Have I used the word infuriating yet?
Yep! Throwing out the pandemic playbook because another administration developed it, cost us time and lives! Very stupid move!
In light of these latest revelations, I have exhausted my irate stupefaction and must spin 180 degrees around to my compassionate side (as the former producer and co-writer of "Mister Rogers' Neighborhood") wondering in profound sadness what form of child abuse transformed a presumably innocent young child named Donald into this grotesque creature. Innumerable books will continue to be written chronicling the awfulness of the man and the devastation he has wrought, but I do hope for one truly definitive portrait of how such a crime against a child might have been accomplished.
I thought Mary Trump's book provided a pretty good look, but maybe that's because I already had some knowledge of how that works. For those lucky enough to never have been exposed to that kind of twisted abuse, maybe something more of a deep dive is required.
Still, explaining what created him doesn't offer much hope to those his policies are destroying daily. Not that it's not significant, just not nearly adequate.
And that doesn't even address his cult followers, who are more like the students in the famous experiment (since, I believe disputed?) who administered shocks to their fellows. Perhaps our entire society is much more damaged than we ever knew?
Sandra, I believe his base is so fearful of changes to their "white world" that they don't know how to act any other way. Dualism never brings change-only pain. I once felt compassion for him and his situation but not anymore. My own father was beaten in the head with a baseball bat, numerous occasions, kept in the trunk of the car while his alcoholic father went to bars, had every toy ever given to him taken and destroyed before his eyes. I could go on but the point is made. My father was not an abuser, not a drinker. He rose above all that to be as loving as he knew how- and that love was awesome!
Kay, I think the difference between your dad and Trump is the timing and the type of abuse. According to Mary's book, Trump's mother had to be hospitalized for almost a year when he was between 2 and 3 years old. This is a critical time of development for a child. From what I can determine, this is the point in a child's life when they are just beginning to become 'a person' in their own right, yet still need their mother, even a hands off one like Mrs. Trump apparently was.
The mean-spirited, malicious abuse meted out by Fred came much later.
Yes, the first 3 years are the developmental time for forming a primary emotional attachment that becomes the foundation for healthy functioning thereafter. A significant disruption in that attachment often results in a child's having issues with security, trust, and self regulation of negative emotions. Sounds like trump's mother was already not emotionally available to him, attuning to his needs, so the stage was set even before she was hospitalized. With insecurity, he may have been more susceptible to over-mirroring and entitlement that leads to narcissism and lack of empathy.
My dad's mom died when he was 2 and his sister 3. No, I have no compassion, empathy or understanding of Trump's decision to enact his rage and hate humanity or the earth.
How some children are so resilient is utterly amazing. Thank goodness for your father!
Mary Trump's book does it
I believe Mary Trump gave us a glimpse of why he is the way he is. That does not mean we should explain away the evil he has perpetrated. He had a choice. Clearly he made the wrong one.
Eliot, thank you for your life's work. To wonder no more, just read Mary Trump's book. DJT is a clone of his father.
Which makes me wonder what horrors produced Fred Trump and his wife.
And all the robber barons that have preceded him in US History and indeed times like empire building, industrial revolution, slave trading and Victorian England. These are the English aristocratic Merchant Ventures that sewed up the southern plantation economy and controlled the Confederate states...until now except for a brief period of "uncertainty" under Lincoln.
I wonder if Melania has any thoughts about her place in such a long list of horrors.
A friend of mine read the book about Melania written by her long time associate, and she says no, Melania is as bad as her husband. She is a co-conspirator.
Trump definitely did not spend any time with Mr. Rogers. I am curious what Mr. Rogers' suggestions would be for understanding Donald Trump.
One thing I have long since understood: no matter how well I knew the man, never ever presume to have the slightest idea what Fred might have said or done. He inhabited a sphere of grace and originality and generosity utterly beyond my ken and capability. ❤️
Mr. Rogers' widow has come out against Trump.
He would have been better if had seen a Mr Rogers...but rather Karl Rogers, eminent and internationally renowned American pschoanalyst!
She is a pistol! And very much her own woman. But I know that Joanne would agree with me in declining to speculate on Fred's like response to contemporary happenings. I can speculate, however, that both she and I would agree that Fred (a lifelong self-respecting Republican) would lament the "family values" demonstrated by his cowardly contemporary fellow "Republicans" in Congress in their shunning truth and compassion.
I am sure most readers would agree that every day you think it cannot get crazier with 45 and his administration. But it does. This won’t make a dent in his cult followers but perhaps enough voters can be swayed to vote him and the republican enablers out of office. I watched the watergate hearings in college, but this presidency tops those antics by a long shot
According to what Lawrence O'Donnell had tonight, most of Trump's conversations with Woodward is just the two of them, no staff, so the staff has no idea what's going to be in the next tape that drops. And with 55 days, there isn't enough time to get out from under, and we're now in the period where even the morons are paying attention. The Biden campaign already has an ad out tonight using him from the tape about lying.. They've got the money to run ads from now to November 3 of him on tape, damning himself.
And the Lincoln Project produced an ad in a hot minute as well!
“I don’t want people to be frightened. I don’t want to create panic,” Trump said. “Certainly I’m not going to drive this country or the world into a frenzy.”
Does he think we don’t remember “Liberate Michigan. Protect your second amendment rights”. Or the demon lady dr. Or the no mask super spreader events including the RNC at the White House. Or that Dr Fauci and family now need security because of all the threats. Or that almost a quarter million people in the US will have died by Nov 3. Or that he threatens not to go quietly when he loses the election. Frenzy and panic are the snake oil he sells.
The only thing that frightens me, sets my dial on panic mode, and into a virtual frenzy, is 45's presence in the WH, his face on the front pages of all news sites/articles, knowing that the panic button is within his reach!
I suggest you not watch Stephen King’s Dead Zone with Martin Sheen. He does a perfect trump crazyface.
Thanks for the heads-up! I’ll be sure to miss that one!
Also unfit to govern, of course, is every Republican in Congress who has aided and abetted Trump over the past three and a half years. At any point, Mitch McConnell and his mob of thugs could have put a stop to Trump's gross betrayal of American citizens. Instead, Moscow Mitch lived up to his new moniker. Laughably, and not unsurprising, Trump's main cheerleader, Lindsey Graham, has been thrown under the bus by the man he has defended time and again. If the results weren't so tragic, this would almost be amusing.
... just to correct myself, I meant "not surprising."
As the days unravel, I feel yesterday was a paramount day for our Country where Trumps deceit is laid bare by his own words. Not hearsay nor statements left for interpretation. His own words. Although the right wing will do their absolute best to spin this, the tapes are the receipts. As Woodward and Bernstein brought down a President in the past, I feel Woodward is on course to do this again. I don't feel this will turn Trump voters against him, but I do think this may be the stimulus that with get the "sofa Democrats" out to vote. Thank you Mr. Woodward and thank you Heather for showing us the path.
Why is America such a *kill the messenger* culture? People (including POTUS 🙄) are trying to pace the blame of Covid on Woodward. Or using the fact he didn’t come out earlier as a rationale that it’s *not that serious or he would’ve said something sooner*. (DJT Twitter feed)
I’m fighting this out on 3 Facebook threads.
1. Donald Trump lied. He lied to everyohe, not just *the Libs*. Luckily for us *Libs* we listened to science - mostly - when it was available to us.
2. The onus to come forward was on people in the administration. Period.
3. Mike Pence knew exactly what was going on and came out and lied to America . Every fucking day. For months. We pay his salary.
4. Dr. Deborah Birx knew what was going on and sat there and took it, at best, and, at worst, obfuscated just as much as the rest of them. We pay her salary.
5. Alex Azar knew. He lied to the American people. We pay his salary.
6. Dr. Robert Redfield knew and continued to deny it. We pay his salary
7. Richard O’Brien knew IN JANUARY that this would be the toughest challenge Trump would face in his presidency. He knew. He said nothin to the public. We pay his salary.
8. Dr. Anthony S. Fauci knew and TRIED TO FUCKING TELL US. They hampered him at every turn. They made it so he had to get approval before speaking to the public. They refuted everything he said. We pay his salary.
9. Bob Woodward is a journalist he told the truth, after the fact. That’s his job. He says he didn’t believe Trump when he was talking all this smack back in February and I believe him. Anyone who heard what was coming out of IQ45’s mouth in public would have doubts. Especially someone who has spent the majority f their professional career writing about presidents and the fucked up shit they do.
The fact is... DJT felt all the MAGAs out there are stupid snowflakes who. couldn’t handle the truth. He lied TO THEM, They castigate us for watching MSM, but, who had the right *spin* on this story? The president or the media? Closing in on 200,000 Cofid-19 deaths here in America. I think the media had it right, and according to his own words, Trump did too. And since MAGA didn’t listen to the media then, why do you think they’ll listen now? They don’t care if the apes are in Trump’s on voice. Stop being delusional. Nothing would’ve changed.
Did I miss anything?
I totally agree. If Woodward had tried to publish his facts one at a time as he collected them, they would have been lost on a sea of cries of hoax. As time went on, I’m sure he got more cooperation and trust from 45 and his team of bullies and toadies who began to see the end of the trail.
I think you hit all the high points very well! Especially about Fauci! And now they're saying that it's *Woodward's* fault?!?! Good Lord, these people just have no concept of logic, do they? SMH!
No they do not. Nor do they have any shame. And that is a big part of the problem. If these people operated under any form of recognizable moral code, there might be a chance for redemption. I’m still waiting to see a whiff of the teachings of Jesus, whom they claim to love and revere, make an appearance with any of these dudes.
I feel like I’m living Atlas Shrugged.
Unfortunately the third major story is THE major story, and will remain so for the remainder of our lives. We can no longer stop the impact of climate change. It will be devastating. We can mitigate if we move quickly
I hope it isn’t too late to get Trump out.
That would be Major first step
I’m shocked by Trump’s candor which makes me wonder what news story he is trying to deflect attention from.
In 2016 the sordid story about Trump and a porn star broke just before the election.
The story that didn’t make headlines around that time but should have is that Trump and Jeffrey Epstein have a victim in common. In Oct 2016 PBS News hour published a list of assault allegations against Trump. The list includes a victim who “.....claims she was repeatedly raped by Trump and Jeffery Epstein at Epstein’s New York City apartment in 1994, when she was 13 years old”. (Source: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/assault-allegations-donald-trump-recapped)
Trump is exceptionally good at manipulating the conversation by dominating the news cycle.
So, as shocking as the Woodward tapes are - my assumption is that there is a bigger, more shocking story that he is trying to distract our attention from.
Trump's financial records and/or whatever the Kremlin has on him.
As for the 13 year old, as an adult in 2016, a patent attorney filed the charges, and later that year, she dropped them:
https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/4357335/doe-v-trump/?fbclid=IwAR2nzlMaa4m7oyyjAMLKhak2hgq87PDH6fPnzcKaF3euVPmNMJddhl0EkX4
Yes, the victim dropped the charges after constant death threats from Trump supporters.
Can't leave this with a little "like" heart.
Even separate from trump supporter death threats, it takes significant corroboration of evidence and perseverance of the victim for a successful prosecution of a sexual assault perpetrator. It's sad that the majority of sexual assaults are not even reported, let alone prosecuted. Hopefully the unnamed victims will be able to find vicarious justice in the prosecution of Ghislaine Maxwell.
And with this type of crime, it will be a long time before restorative justice becomes the norm.
I don't even know what restorative justice could be in the case of rape. It's bad when it happens, then every time it's talked about it's bad all over again. The only appropriate punishment I've ever seen was in a science fiction story, where the perpetrator was condemned to relive the assault from the point of view of the victim, over and over. In that story, the perp had not known it was wrong, so if he ever realized how wrong he had been, the spell would release him.
So glad He called Bob Woodward. I wonder if he is just stuupid or if it’s a piece of the puzzle leading to him continuing to follow the Nixon pattern, to resign and have Pence pardon him.
Laura Palmer, one of my friends was surprised that Trump's staff allowed him to talk to Bob Woodward like that. My response was aren't you glad they did.
I believe Trump's staff has very little control over him. He's semi-feral and stubborn.
Do 'ya think he's The Godfather?
Why would I think that? He's too stupid and disorganized. I said he was semi-feral. How does that relate to him being The Godfather? (maybe I'm missing something not being a godfather fan.)
He's entirely reactive and powered by unconscious impulse...amygdala driven!
I wonder if Pence, Mr Holier-Than-Thou, would do so. That would be the end of his hoped-for career. And it doesn’t solve his state crimes.
Remember that Ford’s pardon of Nixon ended his own political career.
President for a day or week or month would be the pinnacle of Pence's career. And he can always hope for the exposure to help him run for a full term later.
Pence needs to be asked the question: "WWJD?" "What Would Jesus Do?" Rest assured Jesus wouldn't do what Pence does.
Pence would tell you that Jesus forgives all. If he goes along, he gets to be President in the history books, and the oligarchs will reward him for faithfulness.
Yes,! Joan. That forgiveness thing is one of the keys to decoding the Evangelical support of Trump. Watch the documentary, The Family. It will explain how they tolerate/rationalize Trump's behavior-past and present. The greater the sin the more God forgives...leading to the distorted theological conclusion that God has "anointed"Trump for this moment in time. Very disturbing and disturbed thinking.
They conveniently skip the part where the sinner acknowledges their sin and tries to do better. DJT is far from St. Augustine. They also apply the idea selectively - Trump’s sins are forgiven but not those of his political opponents.
He’s just that vain.
Wow, just wow. The lies are being exposed faster and faster, like bombshells, and I can't help but think that his base will continue to blindly support him even despite these new revelations. If Russian bounties on our troops and his disrespect for our military did not move them, I sadly doubt even his lies being revealed about Covid-19 will change their minds.
Oof. Bob Woodward must have a strong stomach, a great poker game, and a ton of charm.
Woodward was well seasoned on Watergate.
Sen. Tom Cotton for Supreme Court? Might as well put the ghost of John C Calhoun on the list.
Both dead....at least from the neck up and in the heart!