I'd rather just modify the rules for the filibuster and start passing ALL the legislation we need to get passed without having to pretend Manchin is an ally. I don't trust him and we don't have forever.
But I guess that's just me...
I'd rather just modify the rules for the filibuster and start passing ALL the legislation we need to get passed without having to pretend Manchin is an ally. I don't trust him and we don't have forever.
It's not just you, Gary. I think this dance with Manchin and Sinema is all a charade. Manchin has too many good reasons -- both political and personal -- to keep any legislation with teeth from passing the Senate. I'm sure he enjoys being lobbied by the fossil-fuel industry, and he knows he cannot get re-elected without GOP votes in WVA.
I have not studied Sinema, so I do not know how independent a thinker she is, or what it might take to get her to give up the filibuster. There is some chance she might take her cue from Manchin, I suppose.
But the bottom line is that the Trumped up GOP knows it is fighting for its survival and has decided to stake its fate on state-level control of voting and the Supreme Court rescuing them when they over-reach (as they have with the Texas anti-abortion travesty).
The GOP will never pass ANY Democratic legislation that might interrupt or even slow down their continuing attempt to consolidate minority rule, commonly known as a coup d'etat. This is act 2 of the Jan. 6th insurrection by other -- and more clever -- means. The bastards think they can smell victory.
At this point our nation's only hope is that the filibuster will be weakened sufficiently to permit passage of serious voting rights legislation. So when Manchin's hopeless attempt to find 60 Senators willing to pass such legislation fails, barring some sort of miracle, we will be back to square one with only 12 months before the midterm elections.
Then we will have only massive voter turn-out and massive million-person protest demonstrations between us and disaster.
The only voters rights legislation that could find 10 Republicans would be one with no teeth. Something everyone could vote for and then go home bragging that they were bipartisan and defended democracy.
This legislation is the grand contest between good and evil, common sense and derangement, honor and dishonor, fairness and purpose-driven inequality.
The Infrastructure bills are highly important but mostly relate to the commonweal. The American Rescue Plan Act took steps to ameliorate the specific havoc wreaked by Covid.
The voting bills are aimed directly at the soul of America. They are vital to America’s survival as a democracy and to its moral standing in the world. They have roots that go back 400 years.
And two senators seek to seize their fifteen minutes of fame.
It’s tempting to say that America was not designed to work this way. But it was exactly so designed. And where it wasn’t explicitly drawn up to be the prototype for all that Rube Goldberg imagined, it has been adjusted to correct in such a way that the gears can once again be clogged.
Usually America, which is so profoundly blessed in so many ways, can shrug off the failures of its government to, you know, govern.
Very rarely however there is a moment where America is in extremis and its government can not fail without the direst of consequences.
It is there now. Professor Cox Richardson sounded the most sombre of alarms this morning.
Eric, you've captured our predicament perfectly and succinctly, and I sincerely hope that we can rise to the occasion and save ourselves and our imperfect union. Thank you.
The "heroes" are among us. We can't give up. If the worst happens, I guess I'll be comforted by the fact that I qualify as elderly, and probably won't have to suffer the consequences for a long time. Meanwhile, fingers crossed, and just keep fighting.
Well stated, and correct from where I sit. Like you, I believe that the Trumpers continue spouting their "gospel" even they know it's a lie. They're desperate to win, and they know that the truth won't get them there. It has to be lies, voter suppression, and intimidation. For starters, gut the filibuster.
The other strong sense I have is that millions of Americans are now realizing they hitched their wagon to the wrong star. The vaccine refuseniks are getting shriller and more desperate as they realize, that in at least this area, they are losing, but for a few states which don’t have mandates and are surging towards their own defining moment.
We are all selfish, and being deprived of restaurants, football games, concerts, and perhaps jobs takes away the right to scratch those itches. The refuseniks can feel the implacable squeeze of mandates, even as they cannot feel the deaths and hospitalizations of people who have the same impulses as they do.
This is a battle they will not win. People, governments and businesses of common sense are squeezing the vise.
I do think that the long term outlook for Covid carnage will rapidly diminish in the next few months - unless another variant, highly transmissible and indifferent to our current vaccines, arises.
My fear at that point would be that the rage of people, who perceive themselves both righteous and vanquished, will be incandescent. It will become second “Lost Cause” in American history, and then who knows what will happen?
It is very hard for me to see a path where America, as a re-unified nation moves again into what Churchill described as the “broad, sunlit uplands”.
Oh, I'm afraid we won't see a reunified "broad, sunlit uplands" any time soon. The best we can hope for is Biden's legislation passing and his vaccine requirements being effective, your "millions of Americans realizing they've hitched their wagon to the wrong star," and the rest of us being re-energized by this close call. Dire times, indeed.
Yes, I agree fully. But there has to some sort of end game. Are you to live in a world with no resolution, constantly bubbling tension, boycotts and other forms of protest, slicker manipulation of the public, diminishing returns from education, periodic shock waves, increased isolation among already isolated people and on and on…with only Netflix and public scandal to divert. To me this way lies madness
There must be reconciliation. But from where and how I’m damned if I can see.
Conditions are never static. As one situation resolves, attitudes change, and we face a different dynamic. We have to fix what is currently possible, and that might change some hearts. Your reference to isolation points to another component of our current situation. The pandemic has kept most of us isolated for almost two years, and that's not mentally healthy for anyone. Just by requiring vaccination for millions and testing for the refuseniks should put a dent in the virus and ease the emotional and physical strain for many. What you seem to be seeing is an apocalyptical scenario, and I think that's extreme. Of course, that's a possibility, but I prefer to think of the devastation that WWII caused over much of the world, homes and lives ruined, but eventually cities were rebuilt and the human race recovered. We're nowhere near that kind of devastation, so I have hope that things will improve, especially with intelligent, compassionate leadership that we now have. If nothing else, more than half of us are fairly sane and not sociopathic. Perhaps others will join us if we no longer have a modern-day Hitler doppelganger with a megaphone haranguing daily.
I'm not a patient person, but I've lived long enough to see terribly thorny situations resolve, and that's what I hope for now. There are plenty of intelligent people working on today's dilemmas.
We are seeing the attempts at "seeding" already with people with ties to groups such as the Proud Boys,the Oath Keepers, etc running for local offices and school boards. Sadly as you note we are now required to be ever more vigilant as the creep to power has begun in earnest.
Let's be on the lookout for these 'wolves in sheep's' clothing on school boards, PTA, and within local lndivisible groups. How do we go about exposing them, often our neighbors?
This is what has been happening in my town - a suburb of Chicago. First it was the school board meetings where they would decide the mask mandates for schools. We were inundated with right wingers who were not from our town and the school boards caved and did not institute a mask mandate. Thankfully, our Governor (Pritzker (D)) instituted a statewide mask mandate days before school began. We also are having an ongoing debate about the "Thin Blue Line" flag being used by our police department. Several village meetings have been held to get community input and people who are not from our town have come to inject chaos into those meetings (general disruptive behavior and bullying). This town is 68% Blue so none of this adds up and I hope it is not a harbinger of things to come.
I myself am greatly in support of a modification of the filibuster that allows senators to delay the vote on a bill for as long as they can make relevant arguments and cogently answer questions while experiencing the distractions and stressors typical of 24 hours in the life of an unmarried underaged mother of color.
We don’t have the votes in the senate to do it.. what we need is a blue tidal wave in 2022, take a few senate seats away from the Republicans and make Manchin irrelevant. If the R’s keep behaving like they are now, they will help us do it, in spite of gerrymandering. Gotta get a big enough wave going.
To do that, we have to work on every elected office in every state. Take that right out of their own playbook. It’s been working for them very well so far, ever since Gingrich and those boys thunk it up....like a steam roller in Jackson County GA, and so many others right up to the state level. We can start now, it’s a long game.
We in mostly blue Oregon have seen a focused attack on our school boards by right wing folks. Our local board averted a take over, but many haven't. As Gus reminds us, we have to examine and work on every race.
Especially the governors. Playing the “long game” Rethuglican governors have appointed right wing, Federalist Society judges that have allowed radical laws to stay in place. In Florida, after one judge ruled against DeathSantis’ mask mandate, the higher court kept it in place. People have not given enough thought to the judges.
Gus, I find it interesting that we are all blaming Manchin for being a stick in the mud, but is Sinema any more malleable than Manchin? Convincing one but not the other will get us nowhere. I'm wondering if we men are indulging in a sexist stereotype here. I think I may be...
If they can carve out the filibuster to vote for new SCOTUS justices, 9 in number, surely a carve-out for millions of voters is just as worthy. Just a thought.
Gary I’m with you. Today’s GOP would modify the rules and pass whatever they wanted. Or Moscow Mitch would simply not consider legislation. I cannot get past how nice the democrats want to play. Really? 9 months into a term and they want to play nice? Screw being nice. Where has that gotten the party? Get the voting rights bill and the infrastructure bill passed. Protect voting rights, get them to the polls, and get our country working with infrastructure spending.
Here I go again: Why are we allowing seditionists power in our government right now? BS. Why are they given power to vote on legislation AT ALL? It really, really pisses me off more and more that my taxes support their seditionist payroll. I follow the rules of our country, and I pay my taxes because I care about others. These idiots should be taken out of legislative duties and not allowed to vote on anything, in the least, until they have answered for sedition against our government in a non-partisan court. Am I just a crazy harper out here in the wilderness?
Wouldn't it be wonderful if MTG, Gaetz, Brooks, Gosar, Jordan, and the rest were not only removed, but also jailed? Just might change the balance of the House and Senate? OK, I'm delirious.
Nope. Similar thoughts and frustrations here, too. Even in professional sports which has its tax dodging weirdness in the NFL (501c3 if I have that close to correct?) players are suspended when accusations of “improprieties” come to light and are being investigated.
One thing is for sure, Laurie. If the Republicans retake the Senate, the Filibuster is gone. Never would they allow Democrats to block anything they want.
McConnell already removed the filibuster from judgeships, and threw out the home-state-senator approval custom. Nothing the radical right cares about can be filibustered, now. It only blocks the Dems.
I'd rather just modify the rules for the filibuster and start passing ALL the legislation we need to get passed without having to pretend Manchin is an ally. I don't trust him and we don't have forever.
But I guess that's just me...
It's not just you, Gary. I think this dance with Manchin and Sinema is all a charade. Manchin has too many good reasons -- both political and personal -- to keep any legislation with teeth from passing the Senate. I'm sure he enjoys being lobbied by the fossil-fuel industry, and he knows he cannot get re-elected without GOP votes in WVA.
I have not studied Sinema, so I do not know how independent a thinker she is, or what it might take to get her to give up the filibuster. There is some chance she might take her cue from Manchin, I suppose.
But the bottom line is that the Trumped up GOP knows it is fighting for its survival and has decided to stake its fate on state-level control of voting and the Supreme Court rescuing them when they over-reach (as they have with the Texas anti-abortion travesty).
The GOP will never pass ANY Democratic legislation that might interrupt or even slow down their continuing attempt to consolidate minority rule, commonly known as a coup d'etat. This is act 2 of the Jan. 6th insurrection by other -- and more clever -- means. The bastards think they can smell victory.
At this point our nation's only hope is that the filibuster will be weakened sufficiently to permit passage of serious voting rights legislation. So when Manchin's hopeless attempt to find 60 Senators willing to pass such legislation fails, barring some sort of miracle, we will be back to square one with only 12 months before the midterm elections.
Then we will have only massive voter turn-out and massive million-person protest demonstrations between us and disaster.
But hey, let's try to stay upbeat!
You’re right.
The only voters rights legislation that could find 10 Republicans would be one with no teeth. Something everyone could vote for and then go home bragging that they were bipartisan and defended democracy.
SOS with high stakes politics. 😩
This legislation is the grand contest between good and evil, common sense and derangement, honor and dishonor, fairness and purpose-driven inequality.
The Infrastructure bills are highly important but mostly relate to the commonweal. The American Rescue Plan Act took steps to ameliorate the specific havoc wreaked by Covid.
The voting bills are aimed directly at the soul of America. They are vital to America’s survival as a democracy and to its moral standing in the world. They have roots that go back 400 years.
And two senators seek to seize their fifteen minutes of fame.
It’s tempting to say that America was not designed to work this way. But it was exactly so designed. And where it wasn’t explicitly drawn up to be the prototype for all that Rube Goldberg imagined, it has been adjusted to correct in such a way that the gears can once again be clogged.
Usually America, which is so profoundly blessed in so many ways, can shrug off the failures of its government to, you know, govern.
Very rarely however there is a moment where America is in extremis and its government can not fail without the direst of consequences.
It is there now. Professor Cox Richardson sounded the most sombre of alarms this morning.
Eric, you've captured our predicament perfectly and succinctly, and I sincerely hope that we can rise to the occasion and save ourselves and our imperfect union. Thank you.
Thank you Nancy. I am hoping that a hero arises, as so happens in your history.
If America is lost, I fear that many democracies will teeter or at least be coarsened, mine included.
These will be a fateful several weeks.
The "heroes" are among us. We can't give up. If the worst happens, I guess I'll be comforted by the fact that I qualify as elderly, and probably won't have to suffer the consequences for a long time. Meanwhile, fingers crossed, and just keep fighting.
Well stated, and correct from where I sit. Like you, I believe that the Trumpers continue spouting their "gospel" even they know it's a lie. They're desperate to win, and they know that the truth won't get them there. It has to be lies, voter suppression, and intimidation. For starters, gut the filibuster.
The other strong sense I have is that millions of Americans are now realizing they hitched their wagon to the wrong star. The vaccine refuseniks are getting shriller and more desperate as they realize, that in at least this area, they are losing, but for a few states which don’t have mandates and are surging towards their own defining moment.
We are all selfish, and being deprived of restaurants, football games, concerts, and perhaps jobs takes away the right to scratch those itches. The refuseniks can feel the implacable squeeze of mandates, even as they cannot feel the deaths and hospitalizations of people who have the same impulses as they do.
This is a battle they will not win. People, governments and businesses of common sense are squeezing the vise.
I do think that the long term outlook for Covid carnage will rapidly diminish in the next few months - unless another variant, highly transmissible and indifferent to our current vaccines, arises.
My fear at that point would be that the rage of people, who perceive themselves both righteous and vanquished, will be incandescent. It will become second “Lost Cause” in American history, and then who knows what will happen?
It is very hard for me to see a path where America, as a re-unified nation moves again into what Churchill described as the “broad, sunlit uplands”.
Oh, I'm afraid we won't see a reunified "broad, sunlit uplands" any time soon. The best we can hope for is Biden's legislation passing and his vaccine requirements being effective, your "millions of Americans realizing they've hitched their wagon to the wrong star," and the rest of us being re-energized by this close call. Dire times, indeed.
Yes, I agree fully. But there has to some sort of end game. Are you to live in a world with no resolution, constantly bubbling tension, boycotts and other forms of protest, slicker manipulation of the public, diminishing returns from education, periodic shock waves, increased isolation among already isolated people and on and on…with only Netflix and public scandal to divert. To me this way lies madness
There must be reconciliation. But from where and how I’m damned if I can see.
Conditions are never static. As one situation resolves, attitudes change, and we face a different dynamic. We have to fix what is currently possible, and that might change some hearts. Your reference to isolation points to another component of our current situation. The pandemic has kept most of us isolated for almost two years, and that's not mentally healthy for anyone. Just by requiring vaccination for millions and testing for the refuseniks should put a dent in the virus and ease the emotional and physical strain for many. What you seem to be seeing is an apocalyptical scenario, and I think that's extreme. Of course, that's a possibility, but I prefer to think of the devastation that WWII caused over much of the world, homes and lives ruined, but eventually cities were rebuilt and the human race recovered. We're nowhere near that kind of devastation, so I have hope that things will improve, especially with intelligent, compassionate leadership that we now have. If nothing else, more than half of us are fairly sane and not sociopathic. Perhaps others will join us if we no longer have a modern-day Hitler doppelganger with a megaphone haranguing daily.
I'm not a patient person, but I've lived long enough to see terribly thorny situations resolve, and that's what I hope for now. There are plenty of intelligent people working on today's dilemmas.
We can do it. See comments above about what happens when voters get mad.
The Benedict Arnold bought-and-soldier in the game...
We are seeing the attempts at "seeding" already with people with ties to groups such as the Proud Boys,the Oath Keepers, etc running for local offices and school boards. Sadly as you note we are now required to be ever more vigilant as the creep to power has begun in earnest.
Let's be on the lookout for these 'wolves in sheep's' clothing on school boards, PTA, and within local lndivisible groups. How do we go about exposing them, often our neighbors?
This is what has been happening in my town - a suburb of Chicago. First it was the school board meetings where they would decide the mask mandates for schools. We were inundated with right wingers who were not from our town and the school boards caved and did not institute a mask mandate. Thankfully, our Governor (Pritzker (D)) instituted a statewide mask mandate days before school began. We also are having an ongoing debate about the "Thin Blue Line" flag being used by our police department. Several village meetings have been held to get community input and people who are not from our town have come to inject chaos into those meetings (general disruptive behavior and bullying). This town is 68% Blue so none of this adds up and I hope it is not a harbinger of things to come.
I myself am greatly in support of a modification of the filibuster that allows senators to delay the vote on a bill for as long as they can make relevant arguments and cogently answer questions while experiencing the distractions and stressors typical of 24 hours in the life of an unmarried underaged mother of color.
We don’t have the votes in the senate to do it.. what we need is a blue tidal wave in 2022, take a few senate seats away from the Republicans and make Manchin irrelevant. If the R’s keep behaving like they are now, they will help us do it, in spite of gerrymandering. Gotta get a big enough wave going.
To do that, we have to work on every elected office in every state. Take that right out of their own playbook. It’s been working for them very well so far, ever since Gingrich and those boys thunk it up....like a steam roller in Jackson County GA, and so many others right up to the state level. We can start now, it’s a long game.
This is started. Boots kn ground in GA. Walk the Walk working at local level. Google to learn more. And Stacy Abrams too
On it here too!
We in mostly blue Oregon have seen a focused attack on our school boards by right wing folks. Our local board averted a take over, but many haven't. As Gus reminds us, we have to examine and work on every race.
Same in Colorado
...and NH
Especially the governors. Playing the “long game” Rethuglican governors have appointed right wing, Federalist Society judges that have allowed radical laws to stay in place. In Florida, after one judge ruled against DeathSantis’ mask mandate, the higher court kept it in place. People have not given enough thought to the judges.
Gus, I find it interesting that we are all blaming Manchin for being a stick in the mud, but is Sinema any more malleable than Manchin? Convincing one but not the other will get us nowhere. I'm wondering if we men are indulging in a sexist stereotype here. I think I may be...
Or, someday, we will find out how Manchineel is being blackmailed. A common Tr$+/ian tactic from the past.
Absolutely, like the elder Forbes and the Fortune 500. And so many others. Also a common mob tactic. Very effective!
Something is compelling Manchin, that's for sure-- and it's not love for country....
"Something is compelling Manchin, that's for sure-- and it's not love for country...."
When people get rich (eg richly powerful), it's not by accident.
Manchin is very very conservative. He shares a lot of values with traditional Republicans.
Count on their continued behavior.
If they can carve out the filibuster to vote for new SCOTUS justices, 9 in number, surely a carve-out for millions of voters is just as worthy. Just a thought.
At least then the US Senate start's to have an everso faint taint of democracy
JJ BRINGING it home. 100%.
I love this imagery!
If only they could walk a day in those shoes…
At the rate they're going, they will and so will all their decendents.
Considering the fact that none of these Rs has ANY comprehension of that experience - imagine how short & sweet THAT filibuster would be, right?
I agree with you but sadly Gus Koch (comment below) is correct
lol
Gary I’m with you. Today’s GOP would modify the rules and pass whatever they wanted. Or Moscow Mitch would simply not consider legislation. I cannot get past how nice the democrats want to play. Really? 9 months into a term and they want to play nice? Screw being nice. Where has that gotten the party? Get the voting rights bill and the infrastructure bill passed. Protect voting rights, get them to the polls, and get our country working with infrastructure spending.
Here I go again: Why are we allowing seditionists power in our government right now? BS. Why are they given power to vote on legislation AT ALL? It really, really pisses me off more and more that my taxes support their seditionist payroll. I follow the rules of our country, and I pay my taxes because I care about others. These idiots should be taken out of legislative duties and not allowed to vote on anything, in the least, until they have answered for sedition against our government in a non-partisan court. Am I just a crazy harper out here in the wilderness?
Nope. Not the crazy harper. Each and every one of those congressional insurrectionists needs to be removed.
Yesterday
It might even give us the majority we need....
That they are even allowed to remain legislators has disturbed me from Jan. 6 to this day.
Holding my breath to find out what the Select Committee reveals. I think it will be big.
Hope it comes rapidly...we need information and actions.
Wouldn't it be wonderful if MTG, Gaetz, Brooks, Gosar, Jordan, and the rest were not only removed, but also jailed? Just might change the balance of the House and Senate? OK, I'm delirious.
Hmmm.. maybe I will write to Biden, Harris and the DOJ. They have not heard from me. Can everyone do that?
Nope. Similar thoughts and frustrations here, too. Even in professional sports which has its tax dodging weirdness in the NFL (501c3 if I have that close to correct?) players are suspended when accusations of “improprieties” come to light and are being investigated.
We're out here with you!
Ah, voices!! Love not feeling like I am just an echo of my own voice! Thanks, Gus!
One thing is for sure, Laurie. If the Republicans retake the Senate, the Filibuster is gone. Never would they allow Democrats to block anything they want.
Exactly, Stuart. And if Republicans traditionally won the popular vote the Electoral College would be gonzo.
McConnell already removed the filibuster from judgeships, and threw out the home-state-senator approval custom. Nothing the radical right cares about can be filibustered, now. It only blocks the Dems.
Good point.
I'm with you
No it’s not just you
And me.
Nope. You have lots of company.
If not kingpin, Kingmaker in the one-party state...