While I believe a process of pardon is necessary for correcting errors and changing understandings of justice, it seems to be that pardons on the whim of presidents and governors is a remnant of imperial power in our democratic republican system, which lacks prudent checks and balances and which can (now obviously) be used to undermine j…
While I believe a process of pardon is necessary for correcting errors and changing understandings of justice, it seems to be that pardons on the whim of presidents and governors is a remnant of imperial power in our democratic republican system, which lacks prudent checks and balances and which can (now obviously) be used to undermine just rule of law as well as to improve it. The pardon of Nixon was such an abuse of power, and Trump's abuses are as corrupt as hell.
“Power must never be trusted without a check.” – John Adams
I suspect that this is only one of several ways we are inclined to conflate a president with a king.
JL Graham: "I suspect that this [pardons] is only one of several ways we are inclined to conflate a president with a king."
Another, and even more extreme, is the notion that a president, or former president, cannot be prosecuted. How in the name of reason can anyone support that position while declaring that "NO ONE is above the law"?
Bill Clinton, after subjecting the American people to years of trashy, dishonorable, lifestyle choices, pardoned 140 people in the last hours of his Presidency.
I think Clinton holds the record for handing out pardons to trashy criminals.
Me? I voted for Ross Perot. And?
Perot was right about NAFTA and right to oppose it.
I’d forgotten about Clinton’s pre-departure pardoning spree. The link you provide, Mike, includes the crimes committed by those pardoned. One example: Susan Lisa Rosenberg was pardoned for her “role in the 1983 bombing of the United States Capitol Building, the U.S. National War College and the New York Patrolmen's Benevolent Association.” The crime of treason should be UNPARDONABLE! Such grievous pardoning precedent can now be used by tfg to forgive the traitorous, J6 criminals! ARGH! $(@&%
Susan Lisa Rosenberg wasn’t pardoned. Her sentence was commuted to time served after more than 16 years in prison. Still unfathomable, but not a pardon.
You are right about Clinton’s pardons, but Ross, while having good points, was a spoiler. Bill did try to overcome his “trailer park” raising, with a lapse, or two, or three…
NAFTA support could have been justified if labor had been supported. Something on the lines of a Build Back Better program. Many jobs could have been created by infrastructure spending vs giving tax breaks and wasting on useless military involvement. Blame every elected representative who did not make an effort for labor and by extension for us all. I would imagine Robert Reich was making the effort as he always has done.
I always held NAFTA against Clinton. I never ever was a fan of that idea, the way it was laid out. I so feel your comment about “if labor had been supported” is absolutely correct.
Clinton's lapses had more to do with his hound-dog propensities rather than his lifestyle--Clinton was quite bright, actually...too bad he was seduced by the Democratic Leadership Council into believing in the "third way".
Bill Clinton left office with a surplus in the budget and a warning for Dubya that Dubya ignored to the lasting detriment of this country. Bill was a centrist, and some of his policy decisions stunk, but there isn't even a near correspondence between WJClinton and the putrid garbage heap that is Trump.
Yeah but otherwise the guy (Perot) was easily as paranoid and demented as is Trump. And his track record in business dealings and where he got his money to make money wasn't exactly spotless either. He did have a few shining moments of true populism in his brief campaigns, though.
I think you are right. I suspect that after 40+ centuries of rule by royal families, it was difficult for the founding fathers to wrap their minds around not having a king. So they basically created a king that can be elected.
While I believe a process of pardon is necessary for correcting errors and changing understandings of justice, it seems to be that pardons on the whim of presidents and governors is a remnant of imperial power in our democratic republican system, which lacks prudent checks and balances and which can (now obviously) be used to undermine just rule of law as well as to improve it. The pardon of Nixon was such an abuse of power, and Trump's abuses are as corrupt as hell.
“Power must never be trusted without a check.” – John Adams
I suspect that this is only one of several ways we are inclined to conflate a president with a king.
JL Graham: "I suspect that this [pardons] is only one of several ways we are inclined to conflate a president with a king."
Another, and even more extreme, is the notion that a president, or former president, cannot be prosecuted. How in the name of reason can anyone support that position while declaring that "NO ONE is above the law"?
Lock Trump Up.
Make sure he has a cell mate willing to provide him tutoring on how to show respect and control his nasty mouth.
Being his cell mate would be hell. Literally hell.
I would agree.
Wishing rape on anyone is something you might want to rethink.
I think You’re jumping to conclusions …let’s all put aside our stereotypes for the rest of the day.
Thank you. Perhaps we could momentarily consider them to be metaphors instead of stereotypes?
OK.
Please do.
Kathy. I was thinking more along the lines of learning respect and how to control his mouth where being respectful is relevant.
I have updated my comment.
There are so many to choose from!
It was a crap decision, hopefully not to be the case for a “former.”
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_pardoned_by_Bill_Clinton
Bill Clinton, after subjecting the American people to years of trashy, dishonorable, lifestyle choices, pardoned 140 people in the last hours of his Presidency.
I think Clinton holds the record for handing out pardons to trashy criminals.
Me? I voted for Ross Perot. And?
Perot was right about NAFTA and right to oppose it.
I’d forgotten about Clinton’s pre-departure pardoning spree. The link you provide, Mike, includes the crimes committed by those pardoned. One example: Susan Lisa Rosenberg was pardoned for her “role in the 1983 bombing of the United States Capitol Building, the U.S. National War College and the New York Patrolmen's Benevolent Association.” The crime of treason should be UNPARDONABLE! Such grievous pardoning precedent can now be used by tfg to forgive the traitorous, J6 criminals! ARGH! $(@&%
Precedent shouldn’t automatically mean it’s alright.
Of course it shouldn’t, but he will exploit any justification he can find
Susan Lisa Rosenberg wasn’t pardoned. Her sentence was commuted to time served after more than 16 years in prison. Still unfathomable, but not a pardon.
Thanks for the clarification, Candace!
You are right about Clinton’s pardons, but Ross, while having good points, was a spoiler. Bill did try to overcome his “trailer park” raising, with a lapse, or two, or three…
Jeri.
Clinton’s main lapse was supporting NAFTA which continued the Republican destruction of the Middle class.
He also signed into law the repeal of the Glass Steagal Act of 1932 setting the stage for 2008.
Clinton had literally hundreds of lapses Jeri.
NAFTA support could have been justified if labor had been supported. Something on the lines of a Build Back Better program. Many jobs could have been created by infrastructure spending vs giving tax breaks and wasting on useless military involvement. Blame every elected representative who did not make an effort for labor and by extension for us all. I would imagine Robert Reich was making the effort as he always has done.
I always held NAFTA against Clinton. I never ever was a fan of that idea, the way it was laid out. I so feel your comment about “if labor had been supported” is absolutely correct.
Clinton's lapses had more to do with his hound-dog propensities rather than his lifestyle--Clinton was quite bright, actually...too bad he was seduced by the Democratic Leadership Council into believing in the "third way".
Bill Clinton left office with a surplus in the budget and a warning for Dubya that Dubya ignored to the lasting detriment of this country. Bill was a centrist, and some of his policy decisions stunk, but there isn't even a near correspondence between WJClinton and the putrid garbage heap that is Trump.
Yeah but otherwise the guy (Perot) was easily as paranoid and demented as is Trump. And his track record in business dealings and where he got his money to make money wasn't exactly spotless either. He did have a few shining moments of true populism in his brief campaigns, though.
I think you are right. I suspect that after 40+ centuries of rule by royal families, it was difficult for the founding fathers to wrap their minds around not having a king. So they basically created a king that can be elected.