Excuse me, but isn’t it time for the Biden administration to call a spade a spade and get tough with Trump and his ruthless gang of cohorts? Seriously, this crap from Trump will never stop unless someone stops it. If the Democrats are afraid to confront Trump and force people to testify, then what good are they doing for our democracy? T…
Excuse me, but isn’t it time for the Biden administration to call a spade a spade and get tough with Trump and his ruthless gang of cohorts? Seriously, this crap from Trump will never stop unless someone stops it. If the Democrats are afraid to confront Trump and force people to testify, then what good are they doing for our democracy? This entire situation is infuriating me beyond belief. Diplomacy isn’t working. Do something that reflects courage.
What happened and why is extraordinarily complex. The investigations are unprecedented in the nation's history. It's not hyperbole to say that the fate of democracy depends on them. Are the investigations not working? We already know in broad strokes what Trump did to bludgeon government officials into launching an attempted overthrow of the government. We know the players and much of what they did. And of course, DOJ, the House Select Committee, and the Senate Judiciary Committee know much more, and they aren't close to finishing their work.
Reality check: the House Select Committee is on the verge of forcing key Trump henchmen to testify. They will be threatened with jail if they don't honor subpoenas. It was suggested yesterday that the committee ratchet up the pressure by referring their refusals to testify to DOJ for criminal prosecution.
We all desperately want the perpetrators punished, especially Trump. A former president has never been prosecuted for such crimes. That means extraordinary care is essential in building the cases, not just for legal reasons but to slowly prepare the public for what's ahead. And prepare for what could be a violent response from traitors who call themselves patriots.
Trump, who is now openly obstructing justice, knows that he faces prosecution on several fronts. Those in his corner who want to topple democracy know this. Their window for succeeding, after failing on Jan. 6, is small and closing. What we need is not speed but airtight cases meticulously built, cases that will end with pronouncements of guilt.
Patience is indeed a virtue, especially in this case but being virtuous is made much easier then there is an occasional reward. In this case, open testimony or, if the subpoena is ignored, actual footage of one of the four going to jail would be such a reward.
I read a tweet last night the Jamie Raskin said they would fine them for not complying. Money is nothing to these people because they continue to grift. It does not hurt them in any way. We have to skip the fines and go straight to jail time. Another option could be to freeze their assets but I don’t think that’s a choice under the law.
I'm not sure about the legal intricacies but, if they were to default on payment of a fine a court might be willing to attach assets. I agree completely with your comments on fines; anything that would be arguably reasonable to a court would be paid out of someone's pocket change.
Absolutely. All four should go to jail, but at least taking one of them would make a difference. The longer trump 'n' club escape justice, the more likely things will just dissolve. The insurrectionists will just laugh and move on to their next government overthrow plan.
I'm reminded of when President Ford pardoned President Nixon (1974) as Ford said it was for the good of the country. Then, there was Pres. Bush Sr. pardoning the six principal criminals (Dec. 1992) working for Reagan in the Iran-Contra scandal. Bush Sr. gave a similar excuse for the pardoning's of those six, something like "so that the nation can move forward." It's all so blatant--the higher the level of crime, the less likely the perps will have to do time.
The other thing we have is a president that will not pardon the antics of the subpoena refusers, something they held onto when defying investigations in the Drump administration. Who do they think will be "saving them" during this round of investigations?
Besides being complex, I’m thinking it is also unprecedented. They’re cutting trail as they go. And working with just a half a deck given what the former admin did to the DOJ
Hallelujah Amen!!! The day he was sworn in, President Biden should have cited the Constitution and Federal Law and Mitch McConnel (see further below) and called for the criminal prosecution, conviction and hanging of the WHITE January 6 mob that breached the Capitol, and their leader, Donald Trump. That Biden did not do that, that every Democrat and Republican in Congress did not do that, well, what does that say about how they really feel about the Constitution, democracy, one nation invisible, and the Flag? I can imagine if the mob had been black, the Capitol police would have opened fire.
February 13, 2021:
WASHINGTON (AP) — In his speech Saturday from the Senate floor, Sen. Mitch McConnell delivered a scalding denunciation of Donald Trump, calling him “morally responsible” for the Jan. 6 attack on the U.S. Capitol.
But in his vote on Trump’s impeachment, McConnell said “not guilty” because he said a former president could not face trial in the Senate.
Washington’s most powerful Republican and the Senate’s minority leader used his strongest language to date to excoriate Trump minutes after the Senate acquitted the former president, voting 57-43 to convict him but falling short of the two-thirds majority needed to find him guilty. Seven Republicans voted to convict.
Clearly angry, the Senate’s longest-serving GOP leader said Trump’s actions surrounding the attack on Congress were “a disgraceful, disgraceful dereliction of duty.” He even noted that though Trump is now out of office, he remains subject to the country’s criminal and civil laws.
“He didn’t get away with anything yet,” said McConnell, who turns 79 next Saturday and has led the Senate GOP since 2007.
Article III, Section III of the US Constitution:
Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.
The Congress shall have Power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted.
PUNISHMENT FOR TREASON AS DECIDED BY CONGRESS:
§2381. Treason
Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.
If for no other reason, all those named thus far and those to be named should face this consequence: "shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States."
I think the Biden admin is being meticulous in its pursuit because the Empire of Evil is strongly invested in the Republican party and its constituents. Sort of like Batman vs multiple Gothams at once. They must adhere to the slow plodding arc of truth and justice lest a misstep brings the wrath of Gilgamesh down upon them. Pardon my mixed metaphors, but while I'm at it, has anyone considered that Trump is the Joker?
Agreed. More importantly it is a perilous time to be challenging precedent for convicting one's predecessor. I am impatient as everyone for the perpetrators of a coup to be punished. I will trust the process on this.
One thing to remember. President Biden has only been in Office 8 months.
I don't have any recourse but to trust the process. I just wish the process were quicker (sigh). By the way, where does the Matt Gaetz process stand. That little weasel is so disgusting it's amazing the case already isn't closed. I wonder what kinds of information the group looking into him is uncovering.
Hope, I understand what you're saying, but for Trump telling Bannon, Patel, Meadows, etc. to stonewall the subpoenas and not react to them is seditious, in this case, is it not? I'm not a lawyer, but I would think good legal minds would have a field day with this situation. How can Trump exert executive privilege when he's not even in office? His boneheaded followers buy into it as gospel truth, but I don't believe executive privilege is reality. I think this needs to be explained by someone who understands it. The Joker is a good metaphor but not evil enough. Trump is in a class by himself. I'm sure his niece could come up with some good ones.
Daniel Goldman, one of the prosecutors for the second impeachment, said on MSNBC last night that Trump committed obstruction of justice in plain sight with his call to stonewall the subpoenas. Other well-known legal experts said the same yesterday.
I agree, Dennis. I do hope those turkeys do not pass go or anything else except a kidney stone. They should go immediately to jail for the obligatory 1-year sentence for refusing a subpoena. BTW, I originally wrote Trump as Anti-Christ but thought I might be cursed for doing so.
However I should add that it’s generally not privileged to have a communication where the lawyer suggests a criminal act or promotes a criminal act or advises the client on how to execute a criminal act. I’m not an expert on executive privilege so I’m not sure how that would apply.
He does act a bit like he's inevitable; it will be interesting to see who the Democrats provide as Iron Person. Not going to assume it will be a man, not confident that the current VP is the right person.
I hope so too Hope. I was quoting from Thanos right before Iron Man removed the glove with the Infinity Stones in it. Sorry if that's a spoiler for anyone.
I didn't take it as snarky, the dfp sometimes behaves as though he's invincible as well. Both misnomers on his part will be remedied by a spell in a maximum security (for his own protection of course) federal resort, possibly in a Caribbean setting; I understand there are vacancies at the one in Cuba and located on a nice bay with a pretty beach.
Considering he’s been on the Radar since 2011. Why yes I have.😂 I guess TFG didn’t get the Brief “That success was the best Revenge “. The Gov and The Mafia aren’t really the same.
Over the past few days both Neal Katyal and Glenn Kirshner have emphasized how important it is for the DOJ to actively go after these individuals who attempted to overthrow the government. Last night on The Reid Out, Glenn made a very compelling case. I am beginning to wish he were our AG instead of Garland: https://twitter.com/thereidout/status/1446257831183847428
I am feeling anxious and frustrated also. But I would rather they get it done right than go through what we have been , again.What good is a Constitution, Rule of Law any of it if those who swear an Oath to uphold it Don’t ? There’s a lot of ordinary , everyday hard working Ppl that believe it really does matter .They are called Citizen Voters of The United States of America. Anything worth doing it should be done right. Hang in there.
I couldn't agree more. The longer trump and his cohorts stay free of any charges and continue to agitate the government, the more I question the effectiveness of the current administration and its ability to pursue justice. trump and his felonious cohorts, to include Jarvanka and other family members enriching themselves at the public trough, will simply buy more lawyers to stall the process of justice. Delays and appeals will keep trump (et al) out of jail as he continues to live a life of luxury at mar-a-lago. I'm sure the rest of the world is laughing at us in the U.S. for allowing the trump charade to continue.
They'll have to have courage in order to demonstrate some and Heather's line about the risk to any President of subpoenaed testimony from his CoS is perhaps the most important line in today's letter; fear of disclosure would give almost any one of them a shrinky winky.
If you're a Disney fan, it was used in the animated 101 Dalmatians to describe the impact Cruella had on her henchmen. A chef I used to work with said it was a phrase used when he was growing up.
Excuse me, but isn’t it time for the Biden administration to call a spade a spade and get tough with Trump and his ruthless gang of cohorts? Seriously, this crap from Trump will never stop unless someone stops it. If the Democrats are afraid to confront Trump and force people to testify, then what good are they doing for our democracy? This entire situation is infuriating me beyond belief. Diplomacy isn’t working. Do something that reflects courage.
What happened and why is extraordinarily complex. The investigations are unprecedented in the nation's history. It's not hyperbole to say that the fate of democracy depends on them. Are the investigations not working? We already know in broad strokes what Trump did to bludgeon government officials into launching an attempted overthrow of the government. We know the players and much of what they did. And of course, DOJ, the House Select Committee, and the Senate Judiciary Committee know much more, and they aren't close to finishing their work.
Reality check: the House Select Committee is on the verge of forcing key Trump henchmen to testify. They will be threatened with jail if they don't honor subpoenas. It was suggested yesterday that the committee ratchet up the pressure by referring their refusals to testify to DOJ for criminal prosecution.
We all desperately want the perpetrators punished, especially Trump. A former president has never been prosecuted for such crimes. That means extraordinary care is essential in building the cases, not just for legal reasons but to slowly prepare the public for what's ahead. And prepare for what could be a violent response from traitors who call themselves patriots.
Trump, who is now openly obstructing justice, knows that he faces prosecution on several fronts. Those in his corner who want to topple democracy know this. Their window for succeeding, after failing on Jan. 6, is small and closing. What we need is not speed but airtight cases meticulously built, cases that will end with pronouncements of guilt.
Patience is indeed a virtue, especially in this case but being virtuous is made much easier then there is an occasional reward. In this case, open testimony or, if the subpoena is ignored, actual footage of one of the four going to jail would be such a reward.
Agree. It's time to quit threatening jail time if the subpoenas are not honored – it's time to incarcerate for ignoring subpoenas.
I read a tweet last night the Jamie Raskin said they would fine them for not complying. Money is nothing to these people because they continue to grift. It does not hurt them in any way. We have to skip the fines and go straight to jail time. Another option could be to freeze their assets but I don’t think that’s a choice under the law.
I'm not sure about the legal intricacies but, if they were to default on payment of a fine a court might be willing to attach assets. I agree completely with your comments on fines; anything that would be arguably reasonable to a court would be paid out of someone's pocket change.
We deserve to see perp walks.
Absolutely. All four should go to jail, but at least taking one of them would make a difference. The longer trump 'n' club escape justice, the more likely things will just dissolve. The insurrectionists will just laugh and move on to their next government overthrow plan.
I'm reminded of when President Ford pardoned President Nixon (1974) as Ford said it was for the good of the country. Then, there was Pres. Bush Sr. pardoning the six principal criminals (Dec. 1992) working for Reagan in the Iran-Contra scandal. Bush Sr. gave a similar excuse for the pardoning's of those six, something like "so that the nation can move forward." It's all so blatant--the higher the level of crime, the less likely the perps will have to do time.
If this isn't wrapped up before the 2022 elections it will all be a moot point because there's a huge chance we lose democracy then.
The other thing we have is a president that will not pardon the antics of the subpoena refusers, something they held onto when defying investigations in the Drump administration. Who do they think will be "saving them" during this round of investigations?
Besides being complex, I’m thinking it is also unprecedented. They’re cutting trail as they go. And working with just a half a deck given what the former admin did to the DOJ
Prior to inadvertently hitting the post button, I was typing “from A to Z.”
I am so thankful you took the time to explain that so clearly and completely. Thanks again.
Thank you, Michael. You put the situation into perfect perspective, from Ato
Hallelujah Amen!!! The day he was sworn in, President Biden should have cited the Constitution and Federal Law and Mitch McConnel (see further below) and called for the criminal prosecution, conviction and hanging of the WHITE January 6 mob that breached the Capitol, and their leader, Donald Trump. That Biden did not do that, that every Democrat and Republican in Congress did not do that, well, what does that say about how they really feel about the Constitution, democracy, one nation invisible, and the Flag? I can imagine if the mob had been black, the Capitol police would have opened fire.
February 13, 2021:
WASHINGTON (AP) — In his speech Saturday from the Senate floor, Sen. Mitch McConnell delivered a scalding denunciation of Donald Trump, calling him “morally responsible” for the Jan. 6 attack on the U.S. Capitol.
But in his vote on Trump’s impeachment, McConnell said “not guilty” because he said a former president could not face trial in the Senate.
Washington’s most powerful Republican and the Senate’s minority leader used his strongest language to date to excoriate Trump minutes after the Senate acquitted the former president, voting 57-43 to convict him but falling short of the two-thirds majority needed to find him guilty. Seven Republicans voted to convict.
Clearly angry, the Senate’s longest-serving GOP leader said Trump’s actions surrounding the attack on Congress were “a disgraceful, disgraceful dereliction of duty.” He even noted that though Trump is now out of office, he remains subject to the country’s criminal and civil laws.
“He didn’t get away with anything yet,” said McConnell, who turns 79 next Saturday and has led the Senate GOP since 2007.
Article III, Section III of the US Constitution:
Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court.
The Congress shall have Power to declare the Punishment of Treason, but no Attainder of Treason shall work Corruption of Blood, or Forfeiture except during the Life of the Person attainted.
PUNISHMENT FOR TREASON AS DECIDED BY CONGRESS:
§2381. Treason
Whoever, owing allegiance to the United States, levies war against them or adheres to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort within the United States or elsewhere, is guilty of treason and shall suffer death, or shall be imprisoned not less than five years and fined under this title but not less than $10,000; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.
If for no other reason, all those named thus far and those to be named should face this consequence: "shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States."
Article III Section III says it all. Thank you, Sloan.
I think the Biden admin is being meticulous in its pursuit because the Empire of Evil is strongly invested in the Republican party and its constituents. Sort of like Batman vs multiple Gothams at once. They must adhere to the slow plodding arc of truth and justice lest a misstep brings the wrath of Gilgamesh down upon them. Pardon my mixed metaphors, but while I'm at it, has anyone considered that Trump is the Joker?
Agreed. More importantly it is a perilous time to be challenging precedent for convicting one's predecessor. I am impatient as everyone for the perpetrators of a coup to be punished. I will trust the process on this.
One thing to remember. President Biden has only been in Office 8 months.
I don't have any recourse but to trust the process. I just wish the process were quicker (sigh). By the way, where does the Matt Gaetz process stand. That little weasel is so disgusting it's amazing the case already isn't closed. I wonder what kinds of information the group looking into him is uncovering.
Idk but I contributed to his challenger's campaign already, Rebekah Jones, FL DOH whistle-blower and one tough cookie.
You mean Challenging precedent for NOT convicting one's predecessor right?
Yep. Or really in general not to even try and lock up one's political enemies. trump yelling "lock her up" was so chilling.
Hope, I understand what you're saying, but for Trump telling Bannon, Patel, Meadows, etc. to stonewall the subpoenas and not react to them is seditious, in this case, is it not? I'm not a lawyer, but I would think good legal minds would have a field day with this situation. How can Trump exert executive privilege when he's not even in office? His boneheaded followers buy into it as gospel truth, but I don't believe executive privilege is reality. I think this needs to be explained by someone who understands it. The Joker is a good metaphor but not evil enough. Trump is in a class by himself. I'm sure his niece could come up with some good ones.
Daniel Goldman, one of the prosecutors for the second impeachment, said on MSNBC last night that Trump committed obstruction of justice in plain sight with his call to stonewall the subpoenas. Other well-known legal experts said the same yesterday.
I agree, Dennis. I do hope those turkeys do not pass go or anything else except a kidney stone. They should go immediately to jail for the obligatory 1-year sentence for refusing a subpoena. BTW, I originally wrote Trump as Anti-Christ but thought I might be cursed for doing so.
For example if an attorney has a privileged communication with a client and later the attorney retires the privilege lives on.
However I should add that it’s generally not privileged to have a communication where the lawyer suggests a criminal act or promotes a criminal act or advises the client on how to execute a criminal act. I’m not an expert on executive privilege so I’m not sure how that would apply.
I rather think he THINKS he is Thanos. But then, he is not known for his ability to think...so there.
He does act a bit like he's inevitable; it will be interesting to see who the Democrats provide as Iron Person. Not going to assume it will be a man, not confident that the current VP is the right person.
OMG, Dave. I hope he's not inevitable. Did you mean, "invincible?"
I hope so too Hope. I was quoting from Thanos right before Iron Man removed the glove with the Infinity Stones in it. Sorry if that's a spoiler for anyone.
I apologize for being snarky. It's good to know another mature citizen who never lost our appetites for the Avengers, et al.
I didn't take it as snarky, the dfp sometimes behaves as though he's invincible as well. Both misnomers on his part will be remedied by a spell in a maximum security (for his own protection of course) federal resort, possibly in a Caribbean setting; I understand there are vacancies at the one in Cuba and located on a nice bay with a pretty beach.
Considering he’s been on the Radar since 2011. Why yes I have.😂 I guess TFG didn’t get the Brief “That success was the best Revenge “. The Gov and The Mafia aren’t really the same.
🤣
They could easily be charged w/ Criminal Contempt of Congress. Minimal consequences from what I understand: https://www.findlaw.com/litigation/legal-system/contempt-of-congress-process-and-penalties.html. BTB, in that piece, a mention of EPA Administrator Anne Gorsuch was mentioned in reference to not turning over documents-Yes, she's Neil Gorsuch's mother-I looked it up!
Over the past few days both Neal Katyal and Glenn Kirshner have emphasized how important it is for the DOJ to actively go after these individuals who attempted to overthrow the government. Last night on The Reid Out, Glenn made a very compelling case. I am beginning to wish he were our AG instead of Garland: https://twitter.com/thereidout/status/1446257831183847428
I am feeling anxious and frustrated also. But I would rather they get it done right than go through what we have been , again.What good is a Constitution, Rule of Law any of it if those who swear an Oath to uphold it Don’t ? There’s a lot of ordinary , everyday hard working Ppl that believe it really does matter .They are called Citizen Voters of The United States of America. Anything worth doing it should be done right. Hang in there.
I couldn't agree more. The longer trump and his cohorts stay free of any charges and continue to agitate the government, the more I question the effectiveness of the current administration and its ability to pursue justice. trump and his felonious cohorts, to include Jarvanka and other family members enriching themselves at the public trough, will simply buy more lawyers to stall the process of justice. Delays and appeals will keep trump (et al) out of jail as he continues to live a life of luxury at mar-a-lago. I'm sure the rest of the world is laughing at us in the U.S. for allowing the trump charade to continue.
They'll have to have courage in order to demonstrate some and Heather's line about the risk to any President of subpoenaed testimony from his CoS is perhaps the most important line in today's letter; fear of disclosure would give almost any one of them a shrinky winky.
"...a shrinky winky."
That's a funny phrase. Never heard it before.
If you're a Disney fan, it was used in the animated 101 Dalmatians to describe the impact Cruella had on her henchmen. A chef I used to work with said it was a phrase used when he was growing up.
Have the courage to be patient.