Recent polls suggest that Trump’s debate performance last week (was it only last week?!) and his attempt to look strong after coronavirus spread through the White House have not helped him politically.
My husband couldn't understand why watching Mike Pence made me furious, not that he thought Pence did a good job, he just didn't get my furor. The mansplaining and condescension were simply too much. A friend's comment about Pence's performance summed it up, "He sure doesn't know how to win women voters."
Fav fly meme: "That fly is Pence's only black friend."
I was impressed with Kamala Harris’ ability to not roll her eyes.
Both candidates evaded answering questions, Pence much more so than Harris. Harris spoke to the people/camera. Pence spoke to the moderator. I didn’t understand why Pence kept imploring “Susan...” when he was clearly the one in constant violation of the debate rules.
To me, Harris came off as a capable Presidential replacement; Pence as a chauvinist toady.
In french there is an expression "Suivez les mouches", which simply means "follow the flies"...and was rightly considered particularly useful when looking for the toilets in a bar/bistro restaurant in days gone by. The fly was simply performing its public duty.
Dieu bénisse les Français!! I do love that country and having spent a fair amount of time there, I greatly miss it. The French can be exasperating, but they do get some things SO right!
Hilarious to hear it was really a fly. I couldn’t tell on my screen - didn’t see it land, just noticed a black spot on his head and then a couple minutes later it was gone - had been drinking extra wine to get me through it. Love the two comments on a fly to sh*t and Pence’s only black friend. A big NO to fly swatters - we should be providing flies with PPE.
I also was exponentially more furious at Pence last night then I was at Trump last week, but didn’t realize why until I read these comments. He pushed that condescending man-splaining button that was activated so often in my corporate career, and I had to leave the room. I don’t see the point in having another debate between Biden and Trump. The Covid risk from an infected Trump and hangers-on seems to far outweigh any benefits for Joe.
Right?! Exactly my experience and reaction! I was talking about that with my husband, and he said talker-overs do it to men too. True, but I had to point out why a woman couldn’t respond in kind w/o being “hysterical,” “too aggressive,” and of course, the b-word! Bleccch. Bad memories.
Thank you, Heather. The fly was a much needed moment—or just over two minutes—of levity. That the Biden camp captured flywillvote.com was quick-acting brilliance.
Once again, I found myself yelling, this time at rule-breaking Pence, “Shut the eff up” while the weak moderator just kept thanking him, like an umpire trying to quiet an unruly crowd at w tennis match.
Nicolle Wallace called Pence “flaccid.” I was more concerned about his bloodshot eye, which may be a symptom of the coronavirus. I remain disturbed that the debate was held in person, inside, and hope Kamala stays healthy.
As Steve Schmidt pointed out, the fact someone attracts flies is traditionally taken to mean they are in league with the Devil. That's pretty much the case with Mike Dense.
It takes us back to the Pre-civil war South. The rich planter class controlling the Southern Democrats and "wallowing" in the mud when necessary to ensure the obedience of the "MUDSILLS" (non-property owning, poor whites) against this majority's own interests and against the siren song of the Northern Republicans, including Lincoln, who where pleading for equal opportunity for all.
Flies are perfectly at home with other SWAMP CREATURES and certainly don't mind a bit of mud although they would prefer something with a little more "life" to them than Pense. If you spend all your time swimming in the mire, you can expect a lot of it to stick.
Stuart, i keep noticing you keep spelling Pence “pense,” (which means ‘think” in French). Did I just get the subtlety or am I granting you too much cleverness? 🥺😁
I would like to think it was the latter ...it would have been such a good "trouvaille" , a refined "bon mot" ...but the "double-entendre" was entirely fortuitous. I plead ignorance and lazyness...i didn't check! The guy is so boring.
She did ask for her time back and was told she couldn't have it in the interest of moving things along, so when she had the chance, she just took it. I applauded.
Couldn't help but think of the viral moment Bernie Sanders had, when a small bird landed on his podium and watched him for a minute while he was giving a speech. That bird seemed like a small blessing, a symbol of hope and of peace, calmly sharing the lectern and showing, it seemed, respect.
Contrast with a fly landing on Pence's head unnoticed. Flies seek out rotting carcasses and piles of dung! Hilarious. Couldn't have been scripted better. Somebody get that fly a contract!
Again, my friend Josh Marshall at TPM has the Senate Republicans - under McConnell's "leadership" - figured out. McConnell got to Trump to back away from a Covid Stimulus package because he figures they're going to lose the Senate and don't want their fingerprints on any "deficit spending" so they can revert to playing "deficit hawks" in the next Congress, while putting all oars in the water to get Barrett onto the court, where 6 conservatives can stymie the Biden Administration and they just go back to doing what they did 2009-2017.
Which means the morons are setting themselves up to lose the filibuster and the court through an expansion.
Greece just found the leaders of the far right Golden Dawn Party guilty of running a criminal organization. I think that's a good idea: we can prosecute the GOP under RICO for "conspiracy against America" and get them all.
You are giving McConnell too much credit. As in 2008, he actively wants the economy worse and the American people more miserable, so it will be easier for his side in the next elections.
Robert Reich mentioned that his nameless Republican “friend” predicted the Republican play described by TPM’s Josh Marshall yesterday would be done “by Republicans as soon as they got their agenda accomplished” during the first year of tRump’s term, and so it has happened. My apologies for not citing the source, that was a long time ago.
Thanks for the recap Heather. I didn't watch the debate last night, but will catch up with it later. I had spent the day at the Oncologist having an array of testing done that frankly knocked me off my pins. I crawled in bed thinking Heather will handle it for me and ofcourse you did, splendidly.
Wishes for "beterschap", as the Dutch say, which kind of translates as "get-better-ship". And many prayers for things to work out. LIVING with cancer is certainly possible. Hang in there and let good wishes be the wind beneath your wings. Stay strong!
I thought the same thing...I was imagining a magnified close up of the fly's face and seeing RBG's face and her lace collar...and hearing a high-pitched, "HELLLLP MEEEEE!!" (if you ever saw the original movie "The Fly" you'll understand...)
Thank you Professor Richardson! Susan Page was completely ineffectual at keeping Pence to his 2 minutes and could not stop him interrupting Senator Harris. She was gracious and sharp, and lively. I have always thought Pence was a little creepy and wooden, he did not change my mind. And the fly! I hope there are no more debates. The rules aren’t followed, The questions are not really answered, and I doubt any minds were swayed. And I hope that Kamala Harris stays healthy. It is completely irresponsible to have the debaters on the same stage in this age of COVID19.
What about the lack of a face mask on Karen Pence? EVERYONE (except Mike, Kamala, and moderator) was to have a mask on AT ALL TIMES...it was a ticket pledge....and anyone who took off the mask would be escorted from the venue by law enforcement. Continual flouting of the rules.
Not much will be changed by this debate, but there might be some movement.
Pence held his ground on abortion, policing, and packing the courts with conservative judges – things his core requires. I don’t think they care much about anything else. Covid, if that is an issue with the core, has already been decided in their minds – it shouldn’t be, but it probably is. He blew off the rest of the electorate.
One answer that really angered me, was his response to the question about Trump and company not adhering to established Covid precautions during ACB’s nomination announcement and what kind of message that sent. He said he trusted the American public to make the right choice – i.e., the Government has little or no role to play in protecting the health and welfare of the public and further, do a we say, not as we do.
Harris held the ground she needed to hold and may have gained a few points with young voters who might have thought to sit this one out, with her support for student loan relief, marijuana legalization and the environment.
I would give the night to Harris. She established herself as competent, forceful and capable of taking over should something happen to Biden – and that may have been a concern for some who hadn’t been much paying attention to her thus far.
I dunno about young voters sitting this out. Ever since the Parkland tragedy, they have been very outspoken and quite frankly, they are our future. Thank goodness!
Thank you, Heather. It seems the most important thing for Joe and Kamala to do over the next four weeks is to stay healthy. Hopefully this is the last “debate.”
In the NYT regarding the next debate going virtual: "Mr. Trump’s campaign manager, Bill Stepien, denounced the debate commission as 'swamp creatures' who were seeking to protect Mr. Biden, calling the move to a virtual debate 'pathetic.' " You can bet your a$$ we're ALL trying to protect the next POTUS from a COVID-19 infection! Since when did keeping anyone from contracting a potentially deadly illness become pathetic? This is the literal definition of toxic masculinity.
Stepien has covid himself, perhaps contracted directly from trump. These trumpers are so low, they would infect Biden deliberately if they could get away with it. Plus, having the debate virtual does two things they don't like: it acknowledges that covid is a real problem, and it turns off Donald's microphone while Joe is speaking.
Since Trump's numbers tanked a bit after the first debate, my guess is he's looking for a way out of a second one, especially WITHOUT having to submit to further COVID testing. He would probably benefit more from NOT having another one. Stepien is a nut-case as has been shown numerous times in his appearances on CNN. In a virtual format Trump would be prevented from doing his usual shtick. I don't think the American public needs to be subjected to this again anyway. It benefits nobody. I just wish we could hold the damn election tomorrow and get it over with!! (...although I acknowledge that the longer we go, the more Trump turns off more people, the more the prospect of a Democrat landslide increases. UGH.)
Thank you Heather. I didn’t watch the debate last night, (I felt certain that Kamala would do a great job and Pence would be his usual lying self), so I didn’t know about the ‘fly’. As I was reading about it, I suddenly envisioned myself with a fly swatter, hitting Pence on the head, repeatedly. 🙂
My husband couldn't understand why watching Mike Pence made me furious, not that he thought Pence did a good job, he just didn't get my furor. The mansplaining and condescension were simply too much. A friend's comment about Pence's performance summed it up, "He sure doesn't know how to win women voters."
Fav fly meme: "That fly is Pence's only black friend."
Yes, Sally. I picked up on his mansplaining/condescension immediately. Hopefully, it will translate at the polls for women voters.
He was infuriating. And ungodly evasive.
I was impressed with Kamala Harris’ ability to not roll her eyes.
Both candidates evaded answering questions, Pence much more so than Harris. Harris spoke to the people/camera. Pence spoke to the moderator. I didn’t understand why Pence kept imploring “Susan...” when he was clearly the one in constant violation of the debate rules.
To me, Harris came off as a capable Presidential replacement; Pence as a chauvinist toady.
Why was Karen Pence not wearing a mask?
Harris showed great restraint. "Mother" evidently removed her mask when she joined Pence on the stage.
Flies love poo and other rotten things! Thank you, Heather, for ending on a note of high hilarity. Sleep tight!
In french there is an expression "Suivez les mouches", which simply means "follow the flies"...and was rightly considered particularly useful when looking for the toilets in a bar/bistro restaurant in days gone by. The fly was simply performing its public duty.
vive la france!
Stuart, a tee shirt with that phrase would be exceptional.
Dieu bénisse les Français!! I do love that country and having spent a fair amount of time there, I greatly miss it. The French can be exasperating, but they do get some things SO right!
Ahhh, it felt so good to laugh and laugh some more! Confession: I scanned to the end to see if Heather included the fly--yay!
There's going to be a run on our new weapon, the fly swatter.
Fave social media comment: That fly was Pence's first Black friend!
Fly swatter and first Black friend...too funny!
Hilarious to hear it was really a fly. I couldn’t tell on my screen - didn’t see it land, just noticed a black spot on his head and then a couple minutes later it was gone - had been drinking extra wine to get me through it. Love the two comments on a fly to sh*t and Pence’s only black friend. A big NO to fly swatters - we should be providing flies with PPE.
The fly swatter sold out almost immediately.
I also was exponentially more furious at Pence last night then I was at Trump last week, but didn’t realize why until I read these comments. He pushed that condescending man-splaining button that was activated so often in my corporate career, and I had to leave the room. I don’t see the point in having another debate between Biden and Trump. The Covid risk from an infected Trump and hangers-on seems to far outweigh any benefits for Joe.
Right?! Exactly my experience and reaction! I was talking about that with my husband, and he said talker-overs do it to men too. True, but I had to point out why a woman couldn’t respond in kind w/o being “hysterical,” “too aggressive,” and of course, the b-word! Bleccch. Bad memories.
Thank you, Heather. The fly was a much needed moment—or just over two minutes—of levity. That the Biden camp captured flywillvote.com was quick-acting brilliance.
Once again, I found myself yelling, this time at rule-breaking Pence, “Shut the eff up” while the weak moderator just kept thanking him, like an umpire trying to quiet an unruly crowd at w tennis match.
Nicolle Wallace called Pence “flaccid.” I was more concerned about his bloodshot eye, which may be a symptom of the coronavirus. I remain disturbed that the debate was held in person, inside, and hope Kamala stays healthy.
As Steve Schmidt pointed out, the fact someone attracts flies is traditionally taken to mean they are in league with the Devil. That's pretty much the case with Mike Dense.
Oh my gosh---I kept yelling the same thing at the radio! And the fly. God bless the little beast. We figured he got stuck in the hairspray.
It takes us back to the Pre-civil war South. The rich planter class controlling the Southern Democrats and "wallowing" in the mud when necessary to ensure the obedience of the "MUDSILLS" (non-property owning, poor whites) against this majority's own interests and against the siren song of the Northern Republicans, including Lincoln, who where pleading for equal opportunity for all.
Flies are perfectly at home with other SWAMP CREATURES and certainly don't mind a bit of mud although they would prefer something with a little more "life" to them than Pense. If you spend all your time swimming in the mire, you can expect a lot of it to stick.
Stuart, i keep noticing you keep spelling Pence “pense,” (which means ‘think” in French). Did I just get the subtlety or am I granting you too much cleverness? 🥺😁
I would like to think it was the latter ...it would have been such a good "trouvaille" , a refined "bon mot" ...but the "double-entendre" was entirely fortuitous. I plead ignorance and lazyness...i didn't check! The guy is so boring.
Je pensais exactement la même chose! Spelling it "pense" rhymes it even better with "dense". You are forgiven.
I just refuse to capitalize either of their names. My own small “personal rebellion “ - denies them humanity, dignity, or respect.
“Swamp creatures!” Made me smile!
I’ve called all his sycophants and cult members “swamp creatures” from the day the Creature encouraged them to crawl out of the muck.
If you turned up the volume, you could hear, "Pleeeaaase.... help meee... pleeaase... nooo... ggooo awayyyy...."
Like minds...thought exactly the same thing.
I was yelling, too!
I only watch a little, but I did expect Kamala to say "reclaiming my time" when flyboy wouldn't shut up or interrupted!
She did ask for her time back and was told she couldn't have it in the interest of moving things along, so when she had the chance, she just took it. I applauded.
Not using that phrase, she did.
Couldn't help but think of the viral moment Bernie Sanders had, when a small bird landed on his podium and watched him for a minute while he was giving a speech. That bird seemed like a small blessing, a symbol of hope and of peace, calmly sharing the lectern and showing, it seemed, respect.
Contrast with a fly landing on Pence's head unnoticed. Flies seek out rotting carcasses and piles of dung! Hilarious. Couldn't have been scripted better. Somebody get that fly a contract!
There's an "interview" with the fly in this morning's WaPo.
😂 I need to look that up!
🤣🤣
Again, my friend Josh Marshall at TPM has the Senate Republicans - under McConnell's "leadership" - figured out. McConnell got to Trump to back away from a Covid Stimulus package because he figures they're going to lose the Senate and don't want their fingerprints on any "deficit spending" so they can revert to playing "deficit hawks" in the next Congress, while putting all oars in the water to get Barrett onto the court, where 6 conservatives can stymie the Biden Administration and they just go back to doing what they did 2009-2017.
Which means the morons are setting themselves up to lose the filibuster and the court through an expansion.
Greece just found the leaders of the far right Golden Dawn Party guilty of running a criminal organization. I think that's a good idea: we can prosecute the GOP under RICO for "conspiracy against America" and get them all.
You are giving McConnell too much credit. As in 2008, he actively wants the economy worse and the American people more miserable, so it will be easier for his side in the next elections.
Robert Reich mentioned that his nameless Republican “friend” predicted the Republican play described by TPM’s Josh Marshall yesterday would be done “by Republicans as soon as they got their agenda accomplished” during the first year of tRump’s term, and so it has happened. My apologies for not citing the source, that was a long time ago.
Thanks for the recap Heather. I didn't watch the debate last night, but will catch up with it later. I had spent the day at the Oncologist having an array of testing done that frankly knocked me off my pins. I crawled in bed thinking Heather will handle it for me and ofcourse you did, splendidly.
Take heart Linda and be positive. You will prevail. I am in my fifth year of Stage 4 lung cancer and am doing well.
I send every good wish to you both. Breast cancer survivor here, doing well.
Me too...I’m a two-timer. My very best wishes to you both, Linda and Beatrice!
Same here - best wishes and good karma / prayers for you both. Uterine and ovarian, negative thus far.
Beatrice, thank you. I'm sending you positive thoughts as well. 💕
Thank you!
Be well Linda, from another Linda and another survivor.
Thank you Linda. Tests showed yesterday that I'm still Stage 1. Relatively speaking , good news.
That is great news. Vigilance (personal and medical) is everything.
That is a fact.
Hope everything goes well with your tests. Prayers from your “community friends”.
Thank you Annette. That's very kind of you.
Thinking positive thoughts for you, hoping the testing leads to something easy to fix.
Thank you Gigi.
Wishing you wellness.
Thank you Terry.
Thank you.
Healing prayers for you, Linda.
Thank you.
Hope you were able to get some good sleep, Linda. Prayers for you.
Deborah, thank you for your good thoughts.
Sending positive energy and prayers, Linda.
Thank you Sally.
Wishing you better days, Linda.
Thank you Lynell.
Wishes for "beterschap", as the Dutch say, which kind of translates as "get-better-ship". And many prayers for things to work out. LIVING with cancer is certainly possible. Hang in there and let good wishes be the wind beneath your wings. Stay strong!
I join others who wish you good luck in returning to good health.
Thank you so much.
My heart is with you. Rest.
Be well, be strong and embrace the love and uplifting from friends and strangers who wish you only good things.
((Linda Bailey!))
Prayers, positive karma and thoughts are with you on this journey.
Patti thank you so much.
Sending healing thoughts your way. May today find you feeling better and more comfortable.
Ruth sent the fly...
I thought the same thing...I was imagining a magnified close up of the fly's face and seeing RBG's face and her lace collar...and hearing a high-pitched, "HELLLLP MEEEEE!!" (if you ever saw the original movie "The Fly" you'll understand...)
Yes, I saw that on my FB page. So it must be true!
Randy Rainbow summed it up for me: Pence is so full of shit that he's attracting flies . . .
That is excellent! Love it! 😂
Glad I'm not the only one who went for the obvious
https://twitter.com/roboyte/status/1314191360581394434?s=20
😂
I love Randy Rainbow! I haven’t seen anything recently but a while back listened to an NPR interview piece with him and decided then that I adore him.
Here's his latest...https://www.latimes.com/entertainment-arts/music/story/2020-10-07/donald-trump-randy-rainbow-parody-patti-lupone
He’s the best!
Thank you Professor Richardson! Susan Page was completely ineffectual at keeping Pence to his 2 minutes and could not stop him interrupting Senator Harris. She was gracious and sharp, and lively. I have always thought Pence was a little creepy and wooden, he did not change my mind. And the fly! I hope there are no more debates. The rules aren’t followed, The questions are not really answered, and I doubt any minds were swayed. And I hope that Kamala Harris stays healthy. It is completely irresponsible to have the debaters on the same stage in this age of COVID19.
What about the lack of a face mask on Karen Pence? EVERYONE (except Mike, Kamala, and moderator) was to have a mask on AT ALL TIMES...it was a ticket pledge....and anyone who took off the mask would be escorted from the venue by law enforcement. Continual flouting of the rules.
I am following the "fly" on Twitter
Brilliant Letter today - thank you.
Not much will be changed by this debate, but there might be some movement.
Pence held his ground on abortion, policing, and packing the courts with conservative judges – things his core requires. I don’t think they care much about anything else. Covid, if that is an issue with the core, has already been decided in their minds – it shouldn’t be, but it probably is. He blew off the rest of the electorate.
One answer that really angered me, was his response to the question about Trump and company not adhering to established Covid precautions during ACB’s nomination announcement and what kind of message that sent. He said he trusted the American public to make the right choice – i.e., the Government has little or no role to play in protecting the health and welfare of the public and further, do a we say, not as we do.
Harris held the ground she needed to hold and may have gained a few points with young voters who might have thought to sit this one out, with her support for student loan relief, marijuana legalization and the environment.
I would give the night to Harris. She established herself as competent, forceful and capable of taking over should something happen to Biden – and that may have been a concern for some who hadn’t been much paying attention to her thus far.
I dunno about young voters sitting this out. Ever since the Parkland tragedy, they have been very outspoken and quite frankly, they are our future. Thank goodness!
Thank you, Heather. It seems the most important thing for Joe and Kamala to do over the next four weeks is to stay healthy. Hopefully this is the last “debate.”
In the NYT regarding the next debate going virtual: "Mr. Trump’s campaign manager, Bill Stepien, denounced the debate commission as 'swamp creatures' who were seeking to protect Mr. Biden, calling the move to a virtual debate 'pathetic.' " You can bet your a$$ we're ALL trying to protect the next POTUS from a COVID-19 infection! Since when did keeping anyone from contracting a potentially deadly illness become pathetic? This is the literal definition of toxic masculinity.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/08/business/media/trump-biden-debate-virtual.html?campaign_id=60&emc=edit_na_20201008&instance_id=0&nl=breaking-news&ref=cta®i_id=84562405&segment_id=40269&user_id=a1d0b2fd6a4a2da92a726af6595a05cf
Stepien has covid himself, perhaps contracted directly from trump. These trumpers are so low, they would infect Biden deliberately if they could get away with it. Plus, having the debate virtual does two things they don't like: it acknowledges that covid is a real problem, and it turns off Donald's microphone while Joe is speaking.
Since Trump's numbers tanked a bit after the first debate, my guess is he's looking for a way out of a second one, especially WITHOUT having to submit to further COVID testing. He would probably benefit more from NOT having another one. Stepien is a nut-case as has been shown numerous times in his appearances on CNN. In a virtual format Trump would be prevented from doing his usual shtick. I don't think the American public needs to be subjected to this again anyway. It benefits nobody. I just wish we could hold the damn election tomorrow and get it over with!! (...although I acknowledge that the longer we go, the more Trump turns off more people, the more the prospect of a Democrat landslide increases. UGH.)
Thank you Heather. I didn’t watch the debate last night, (I felt certain that Kamala would do a great job and Pence would be his usual lying self), so I didn’t know about the ‘fly’. As I was reading about it, I suddenly envisioned myself with a fly swatter, hitting Pence on the head, repeatedly. 🙂
Satisfying. Eh?!