Why does the mainstream media keep asking candidates if they’ll accept the results of an election if they lose? It’s an idiotic question. Except for the case of the presidency where because of the Electoral College someone can actually lose the popular vote and still win, in all other elections, if you get fewer votes, you lose. Period. …
Why does the mainstream media keep asking candidates if they’ll accept the results of an election if they lose? It’s an idiotic question. Except for the case of the presidency where because of the Electoral College someone can actually lose the popular vote and still win, in all other elections, if you get fewer votes, you lose. Period. There is no requirement that the loser accept the outcome. In the case of Kari Lake, she’s not in office so she can’t refuse to leave if she loses. She can’t show up and move into the governor’s office. She can sue(and lose); she can whine; she can wail and pout. But she can’t change the outcome. Not enough votes? You lose. Don’t accept it? Too bad. Work it out with your therapist. But stop giving these people airtime, headlines and pseudo-legitimacy by asking an irrelevant question. The media - and not just Fox - are complicit.
I agree that it is essentially a whacked question. Why would any journalist feel the need to ask such a question? It's ridiculous! It's a treasonous attitude! But here is the thing. It apparently is an appealing thing to say to the folks who have left democracy in the dust. It's a winning campaign tool if you are appealing to the robotic dolts who have embraced hate.
This is the same technique that gave us the Third Reich. Start lying and keep lying and lying until enough people are on board because you fed their hate for the other. It's stunning, isn't it?
But why should we be shocked when for as long as there has been language, people have bought fantasy over reality. Because it was repeated over and over again. Otherwise, how can you explain the fact that millions of people really think there was a Noah's Ark and we and all the animals come from those that survived the flood on a big boat. So upon reflection, none of this is surprising. Some people will believe anything. Would anyone like to hear about turning water to wine...or for that matter, walking on water? Is it any wonder that so many people are easily conned?
Following along with your argument, election denialism, and the tendency to flock to conspiracy theories rather than science, seem to engender the exact type of faith and dedication that religion does.
Yup. It has been human nature since we learned to talk. Asking gods for rain, blaming a blasphemous person for crop failure. All nonsense embraced with complete conviction.
Most people believe what they are brainwashed/indoctrinated/trained/taught to believe. Very few people are 100% independent critical thinkers. Anyone who has a simple understanding of psychology knows this. I think Bill's comment is spot on and deserves a lot of reflection on everyone's part.
The Republican playbook is not original; they are using the same tactics that authoritarian regimes have used for millenniums. Actually, it is the playbook that every successful political party has employed. It is simple, easy to implement, and it works.
So why don't the Democrats adopt the same tactics of persuasion as the Republicans? Ostensibly, many of their ideas and principles have majority support. Why do they shy away from democratic socialist policies? They dumped liberalism for pseudo progressivism. I think the reason is obvious - follow the money!
In my lifetime, the Democratic party has moved further and further to the right as the modern-day robber barons have gained greater control over politicians and elections. Democrats have been resigned to developing one expertise - the art of triangulation. Every election is a balancing act between promising to fulfill the needs of their constituency (regular Americans) while at the same time mollifying their wealthy donors. The beauty of modern-day Democratic politics is you only need to find one or two dissenters to defeat or compromise legislation. e.g. Sinema and Manchin though there were many other Democrats who were happy to see Biden's Build Back Better proposals shot down.
If you wonder why there is indifference and apathy then I say "show me the money." Promises made and not kept for decades has resulted in a lot of voter apathy. BTW, a lot of those blue-collar Republicans used to be blue-collar Democrats who have seen their middle-class status eroded because (in their minds) Democrats didn't stand-up and protect and save unions and union jobs. Washington politicians allowed good jobs to leave the country and added insult to injury with unfavorable trade protections. NAFTA was good for corporations which ultimately was only good for corporate execs and stockholders. Democrats let unions die without a fight and with it went collective bargaining which was and is the only defense against the robber barons. You can blame Republicans all you want, but Democrats share in the blame by not coming through for blue-collar, middle-class workers. It is clear to me that the level of mistrust in government and politicians has resulted in voter apathy.
If you did well and rose on your own merits, good for you and congratulations, but the reality is for millions and millions of Americans, they have struggled to find good paying jobs. Over the decades, government has done little to compensate the loss of job security and a livable wage. I can't remember exactly, but the minimum wage adjusted from 196x should be around $80 today! Social Security benefits are below the poverty line. Most Americans over 65 have little or nothing saved for retirement and cannot afford to retire. Many can't find jobs earning a livable wage, and in many cases, they will be taxed for earning a livable wage. This is America, not a third world country. You can argue, as Republicans do, that it is not the government's responsibility to compensate for economic hardship. Maybe so, but it is also not government's responsibility to give unfair advantages to the robber barons and the investor class in America.
I could go on and on about unaffordable healthcare, unlivable minimum wage, cost of education and student loans, loss of consumer protections, inadequate and underfunded Social Security, skyrocketing cost of fuel, food and housing, and failure to mitigate climate change. In each and every one of these categories, the wealthy robber barons have prevailed to their betterment and to the detriment of the vast majority of Americans. There is so much bullshit in American politics and it is endless to the point that most people tuning it out especially when dealing with the reality of making ends meet. Republicans blame Democrats and vice versa. The truth of the matter is people who are tuned in are biased one way or another, and the rest just are sick and tired of all the bullshit.
This saying (whoever it is actually attributed to) rings true every election: “You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time.” So, yea go vote, but it is way past time to wake up to why people are not motivated to vote. Why are we asked to spend billions to get politicians elected, most of who are working hand-in-hand with their wealthy donors? Why are we asked to give politicians money to do their job and represent our interests? America is not a democratic republic; it's for all intents and purposes, a defacto kleptocracy. It is the best government that money can buy.
There are plenty off us Leo old of good faith snd progressive who are mature enough not to take relooks stereotypes literally but are syombokic lessons. So careful not to lump us in with those who abuse snd distort “religion” and use it for political purposes.
I am a fan of any faith that promotes democracy, diversity and compassion for our fellow travelers. I applaud any faith that respects the planet, science and other species as part of an important web of life.
Any faith that wants to truly help others has my respect. I know some faithful who fall into that camp.
Candidates like Kari Lake will refuse to concede, their supporters gather and make mob threats of violence that turn their mob violent. It’s a more common tactic in Eastern Europe, that has migrated to the West.
I don't think that it will happen but if it does happen, those who threaten violence should be dispatched quickly and demonstrably. It doesn't help that the Justice Department is not moving quickly to indict and punish high profile seditionists which in my mind is most of the Republican Party. They took an oath of office. It's about time they be held accountable, don't you think?
Merrick Garland has a record of 100% convictions in his jury trials as a prosecutor. For Jan 6th I think he is being cautious for a reason. Charges can’t be partisan, even though QOP will claim that it is, no matter what. To get to the truth, he has to work bottom up. Turn many to state’s witness at each level to the top. If he doesn’t do it this way, what are the consequences IF QOP wins back the house or senate, or God forbid TFG wins a 2nd term by cheating with red state sec’s of states, and corrupt county officials help?
If the unthinkable happens, they will come after Garland, Biden, DOJ prosecutors, investigators, witnesses, etc, etc. Garland must be prudent, exact, bullet proof the case.
I am terrified of Kari Lake. Principled Katie Hobbs looks like sick little mouse next to her. I just hope that people see through the lipstick and heels....
Agree. I’m not sure why Hobbs won’t engage Lake in a debate. Lake should be called out on all issues before Election Day. Hobbs should take the gloves off and start intellectual/pro democracy/pro womens health punching.
Democrats appear to embrace Michelle Obama's when-they-go-low-I-go-high dribble. I told my husband that if I was running I would be rabidly unleashed and that he would be continuously embarrassed and mortified. My mild-mannered husband actually said, "I'd support anything you said." It made me actually think about running myself!
I think that’s what a reasoned debate is to me. One can debate and maintain the high ground but with the gloves off. Voters need to see prospective leaders squash, smash, disqualify these QOP nut jobs in real life on screen and live. Of course it has to be a fair debate. But it has to happen. It is what makes voters fall in love. It makes reasonable independents question why they would vote for stupid racists candidates. It forces white republican women to reconcile the issues of abortion and equal access to HC.
I think it’s a bad question because the interviewer doesn’t ask follow-up questions. “Why would your winning the election not be free of voter fraud?” What evidence is there that the Dems, and only the Dems, commit this crime? You realize that Drumpf has never adduced any evidence convincing enough to prove that the election was stolen, don’t you?” I could go on, but it’s frustrating that the timid media types just let these statements stand as a possible fact, rather than the naked propaganda it is.
And anyone familiar with the win-at-all-costs ethos of the GOP, conservatives and cut-throat businesspeople would find it hard to believe they wouldn’t avail themselves of the same “fraud” as Dems.
My thoughts exactly. I wonder, one more time, just how much the media has exploited this issue for the sensationalism effect. There was someone who lost a primary last summer and refused to concede. Nothing happened. Don't remember this? It's because the media dropped it.
Lake is dangerous. She is not good for the Country. She is a media darling because whether they admit it or not she is one of them and they like that.
For all the terror and horror and covid and DeJoy's voter suppression from the last election who is sitting in the White House at this moment? Can we please retire chicken little? Let's get down to the business of voting.
With the growth of "media" and all it entails, journalistic integrity has all but disappeared. There are no corroboration of statements, no deep dives into the details of an event, just soundbites and clickbait any more. It is arriving at the point where any newspaper or local to national TV news is just blathering propaganda to sell stuff or make money for the owner of said media. Then, you have to contend with the plethora of internet "news" where opinions are presented as fact and reporting is just regurgitation of opinions. Factor in the use of media (especially social media) that is so easily manipulated to foster divide and you've got today's America, which is the product of at least 3 generations of dumbed down public education.
Agree Ally. The takeover of local journalism by media giants, the voter laziness which goes for the 30 second info feed and the inability/refusal to parse fact from fiction is a mess. The media would change if people quit buying into their bs. But Americans appear to be more interested in the latest sports scores and Kanye than Democracy
Candidates have to know the game within the game. Plenty of opportunities to garner their own sound bites to expose the crazies. Right? Like Warnock did to Walker and others. They need to hammer home the principles of good democratic governance and expose the bs of the QOP. They need to debate to demonstrate their leadership capability.
Shouldn’t Hobbs debate Kari Lake? Hobbs should I think. Expose Lake as a racist fascist Q crazy anti democratic demagogue that she herself has cultivated as a candidate. Democratic candidates should be ruling the debates, as many are. The issue of women's access and privacy to health care is the issue to attack first in red and purple states like Arizona. Democrats should debate and use these issues ti expose their competitors as ignorant, cruel, racist, naive to facts that drive common sense policy.
Then they need to say that. Because there are reporters and some analysts who simply state that "Dems are in trouble" or Dems are likely to lose the house" as if it is a background fact. I've noted before that there is a lot of lazy reporting. It's lower key right now, but just as irresponsible. I've read and heard too many of the say things that indicate that they have NO understanding of how polling works or what a "margin of error" means. That is even sometimes on NPR and other responsible news sources. Their colleagues should be calling them out in the moment by restating the comment in a more accurate manner, but it gets left to be "balanced" in a later story, leaving the impression that it is an either/or situation. It is not, and the reporting has an obligation to say that clearly.
Amen, by the way, derived from Hebrew through Greek, Latin and then Old English, is an old legal term, that simply indicates "It is agreed" or "so be it", or simply, affirmation of something said. Some New England select boards still use it when an action is voted on affirmatively, and I've heard it in legal courts as well. I love word trivia.
I think they ask the question now to get people on record. However, they should follow up with the facts that elections are fundamental to our society, and NO proof of fraud of any significant size has been shown in our elections.
Why does the mainstream media keep asking candidates if they’ll accept the results of an election if they lose? It’s an idiotic question. Except for the case of the presidency where because of the Electoral College someone can actually lose the popular vote and still win, in all other elections, if you get fewer votes, you lose. Period. There is no requirement that the loser accept the outcome. In the case of Kari Lake, she’s not in office so she can’t refuse to leave if she loses. She can’t show up and move into the governor’s office. She can sue(and lose); she can whine; she can wail and pout. But she can’t change the outcome. Not enough votes? You lose. Don’t accept it? Too bad. Work it out with your therapist. But stop giving these people airtime, headlines and pseudo-legitimacy by asking an irrelevant question. The media - and not just Fox - are complicit.
I agree that it is essentially a whacked question. Why would any journalist feel the need to ask such a question? It's ridiculous! It's a treasonous attitude! But here is the thing. It apparently is an appealing thing to say to the folks who have left democracy in the dust. It's a winning campaign tool if you are appealing to the robotic dolts who have embraced hate.
This is the same technique that gave us the Third Reich. Start lying and keep lying and lying until enough people are on board because you fed their hate for the other. It's stunning, isn't it?
But why should we be shocked when for as long as there has been language, people have bought fantasy over reality. Because it was repeated over and over again. Otherwise, how can you explain the fact that millions of people really think there was a Noah's Ark and we and all the animals come from those that survived the flood on a big boat. So upon reflection, none of this is surprising. Some people will believe anything. Would anyone like to hear about turning water to wine...or for that matter, walking on water? Is it any wonder that so many people are easily conned?
Following along with your argument, election denialism, and the tendency to flock to conspiracy theories rather than science, seem to engender the exact type of faith and dedication that religion does.
Yup. It has been human nature since we learned to talk. Asking gods for rain, blaming a blasphemous person for crop failure. All nonsense embraced with complete conviction.
Agreed, completely. However... asking gods for rain, in a drought as bad as this one... seems like it couldn't hurt...
Just saying “religion” isa problem but people of faith who care about justice peace and integrity of creation are not in that stereotyped category.
Most people believe what they are brainwashed/indoctrinated/trained/taught to believe. Very few people are 100% independent critical thinkers. Anyone who has a simple understanding of psychology knows this. I think Bill's comment is spot on and deserves a lot of reflection on everyone's part.
The Republican playbook is not original; they are using the same tactics that authoritarian regimes have used for millenniums. Actually, it is the playbook that every successful political party has employed. It is simple, easy to implement, and it works.
So why don't the Democrats adopt the same tactics of persuasion as the Republicans? Ostensibly, many of their ideas and principles have majority support. Why do they shy away from democratic socialist policies? They dumped liberalism for pseudo progressivism. I think the reason is obvious - follow the money!
In my lifetime, the Democratic party has moved further and further to the right as the modern-day robber barons have gained greater control over politicians and elections. Democrats have been resigned to developing one expertise - the art of triangulation. Every election is a balancing act between promising to fulfill the needs of their constituency (regular Americans) while at the same time mollifying their wealthy donors. The beauty of modern-day Democratic politics is you only need to find one or two dissenters to defeat or compromise legislation. e.g. Sinema and Manchin though there were many other Democrats who were happy to see Biden's Build Back Better proposals shot down.
If you wonder why there is indifference and apathy then I say "show me the money." Promises made and not kept for decades has resulted in a lot of voter apathy. BTW, a lot of those blue-collar Republicans used to be blue-collar Democrats who have seen their middle-class status eroded because (in their minds) Democrats didn't stand-up and protect and save unions and union jobs. Washington politicians allowed good jobs to leave the country and added insult to injury with unfavorable trade protections. NAFTA was good for corporations which ultimately was only good for corporate execs and stockholders. Democrats let unions die without a fight and with it went collective bargaining which was and is the only defense against the robber barons. You can blame Republicans all you want, but Democrats share in the blame by not coming through for blue-collar, middle-class workers. It is clear to me that the level of mistrust in government and politicians has resulted in voter apathy.
If you did well and rose on your own merits, good for you and congratulations, but the reality is for millions and millions of Americans, they have struggled to find good paying jobs. Over the decades, government has done little to compensate the loss of job security and a livable wage. I can't remember exactly, but the minimum wage adjusted from 196x should be around $80 today! Social Security benefits are below the poverty line. Most Americans over 65 have little or nothing saved for retirement and cannot afford to retire. Many can't find jobs earning a livable wage, and in many cases, they will be taxed for earning a livable wage. This is America, not a third world country. You can argue, as Republicans do, that it is not the government's responsibility to compensate for economic hardship. Maybe so, but it is also not government's responsibility to give unfair advantages to the robber barons and the investor class in America.
I could go on and on about unaffordable healthcare, unlivable minimum wage, cost of education and student loans, loss of consumer protections, inadequate and underfunded Social Security, skyrocketing cost of fuel, food and housing, and failure to mitigate climate change. In each and every one of these categories, the wealthy robber barons have prevailed to their betterment and to the detriment of the vast majority of Americans. There is so much bullshit in American politics and it is endless to the point that most people tuning it out especially when dealing with the reality of making ends meet. Republicans blame Democrats and vice versa. The truth of the matter is people who are tuned in are biased one way or another, and the rest just are sick and tired of all the bullshit.
This saying (whoever it is actually attributed to) rings true every election: “You can fool all the people some of the time, and some of the people all the time, but you cannot fool all the people all the time.” So, yea go vote, but it is way past time to wake up to why people are not motivated to vote. Why are we asked to spend billions to get politicians elected, most of who are working hand-in-hand with their wealthy donors? Why are we asked to give politicians money to do their job and represent our interests? America is not a democratic republic; it's for all intents and purposes, a defacto kleptocracy. It is the best government that money can buy.
There are plenty off us Leo old of good faith snd progressive who are mature enough not to take relooks stereotypes literally but are syombokic lessons. So careful not to lump us in with those who abuse snd distort “religion” and use it for political purposes.
I am a fan of any faith that promotes democracy, diversity and compassion for our fellow travelers. I applaud any faith that respects the planet, science and other species as part of an important web of life.
Any faith that wants to truly help others has my respect. I know some faithful who fall into that camp.
So, apologies for any "lumping".
I absolutely love this, and just posted this in quotes: "Not enough votes? You lose. Don’t accept it? Too bad. Work it out with your therapist."
💙
Candidates like Kari Lake will refuse to concede, their supporters gather and make mob threats of violence that turn their mob violent. It’s a more common tactic in Eastern Europe, that has migrated to the West.
I don't think that it will happen but if it does happen, those who threaten violence should be dispatched quickly and demonstrably. It doesn't help that the Justice Department is not moving quickly to indict and punish high profile seditionists which in my mind is most of the Republican Party. They took an oath of office. It's about time they be held accountable, don't you think?
Merrick Garland has a record of 100% convictions in his jury trials as a prosecutor. For Jan 6th I think he is being cautious for a reason. Charges can’t be partisan, even though QOP will claim that it is, no matter what. To get to the truth, he has to work bottom up. Turn many to state’s witness at each level to the top. If he doesn’t do it this way, what are the consequences IF QOP wins back the house or senate, or God forbid TFG wins a 2nd term by cheating with red state sec’s of states, and corrupt county officials help?
If the unthinkable happens, they will come after Garland, Biden, DOJ prosecutors, investigators, witnesses, etc, etc. Garland must be prudent, exact, bullet proof the case.
Keep the faith.
Thanks, Ted. I agree 100%. I'm tired of hearing Garland criticized for doing his job well.
I am terrified of Kari Lake. Principled Katie Hobbs looks like sick little mouse next to her. I just hope that people see through the lipstick and heels....
Agree. I’m not sure why Hobbs won’t engage Lake in a debate. Lake should be called out on all issues before Election Day. Hobbs should take the gloves off and start intellectual/pro democracy/pro womens health punching.
Democrats appear to embrace Michelle Obama's when-they-go-low-I-go-high dribble. I told my husband that if I was running I would be rabidly unleashed and that he would be continuously embarrassed and mortified. My mild-mannered husband actually said, "I'd support anything you said." It made me actually think about running myself!
I think that’s what a reasoned debate is to me. One can debate and maintain the high ground but with the gloves off. Voters need to see prospective leaders squash, smash, disqualify these QOP nut jobs in real life on screen and live. Of course it has to be a fair debate. But it has to happen. It is what makes voters fall in love. It makes reasonable independents question why they would vote for stupid racists candidates. It forces white republican women to reconcile the issues of abortion and equal access to HC.
You sure?
I think it’s a bad question because the interviewer doesn’t ask follow-up questions. “Why would your winning the election not be free of voter fraud?” What evidence is there that the Dems, and only the Dems, commit this crime? You realize that Drumpf has never adduced any evidence convincing enough to prove that the election was stolen, don’t you?” I could go on, but it’s frustrating that the timid media types just let these statements stand as a possible fact, rather than the naked propaganda it is.
And anyone familiar with the win-at-all-costs ethos of the GOP, conservatives and cut-throat businesspeople would find it hard to believe they wouldn’t avail themselves of the same “fraud” as Dems.
My thoughts exactly. I wonder, one more time, just how much the media has exploited this issue for the sensationalism effect. There was someone who lost a primary last summer and refused to concede. Nothing happened. Don't remember this? It's because the media dropped it.
Lake is dangerous. She is not good for the Country. She is a media darling because whether they admit it or not she is one of them and they like that.
For all the terror and horror and covid and DeJoy's voter suppression from the last election who is sitting in the White House at this moment? Can we please retire chicken little? Let's get down to the business of voting.
With the growth of "media" and all it entails, journalistic integrity has all but disappeared. There are no corroboration of statements, no deep dives into the details of an event, just soundbites and clickbait any more. It is arriving at the point where any newspaper or local to national TV news is just blathering propaganda to sell stuff or make money for the owner of said media. Then, you have to contend with the plethora of internet "news" where opinions are presented as fact and reporting is just regurgitation of opinions. Factor in the use of media (especially social media) that is so easily manipulated to foster divide and you've got today's America, which is the product of at least 3 generations of dumbed down public education.
Great combination. <sarcasm>
Agree Ally. The takeover of local journalism by media giants, the voter laziness which goes for the 30 second info feed and the inability/refusal to parse fact from fiction is a mess. The media would change if people quit buying into their bs. But Americans appear to be more interested in the latest sports scores and Kanye than Democracy
Candidates have to know the game within the game. Plenty of opportunities to garner their own sound bites to expose the crazies. Right? Like Warnock did to Walker and others. They need to hammer home the principles of good democratic governance and expose the bs of the QOP. They need to debate to demonstrate their leadership capability.
Shouldn’t Hobbs debate Kari Lake? Hobbs should I think. Expose Lake as a racist fascist Q crazy anti democratic demagogue that she herself has cultivated as a candidate. Democratic candidates should be ruling the debates, as many are. The issue of women's access and privacy to health care is the issue to attack first in red and purple states like Arizona. Democrats should debate and use these issues ti expose their competitors as ignorant, cruel, racist, naive to facts that drive common sense policy.
Maybe they want the public to see what some candidates believe.
Then they need to say that. Because there are reporters and some analysts who simply state that "Dems are in trouble" or Dems are likely to lose the house" as if it is a background fact. I've noted before that there is a lot of lazy reporting. It's lower key right now, but just as irresponsible. I've read and heard too many of the say things that indicate that they have NO understanding of how polling works or what a "margin of error" means. That is even sometimes on NPR and other responsible news sources. Their colleagues should be calling them out in the moment by restating the comment in a more accurate manner, but it gets left to be "balanced" in a later story, leaving the impression that it is an either/or situation. It is not, and the reporting has an obligation to say that clearly.
Andrea, all I can say is Amen to that.
Amen, by the way, derived from Hebrew through Greek, Latin and then Old English, is an old legal term, that simply indicates "It is agreed" or "so be it", or simply, affirmation of something said. Some New England select boards still use it when an action is voted on affirmatively, and I've heard it in legal courts as well. I love word trivia.
I think they ask the question now to get people on record. However, they should follow up with the facts that elections are fundamental to our society, and NO proof of fraud of any significant size has been shown in our elections.
It's actually a logical question for a candidate who thinks he or she can only lose because of voter fraud, but yeah - well put.
How insane that it should be that simple but isn’t.
Thank you for your post, Andrea