This black-and-white attitude is the principal reason the people who live in the Holy Land will never be able to enjoy their lives in peace and security. Paul VI said, "If you want peace, work for justice." He did not say "send more guns".
This black-and-white attitude is the principal reason the people who live in the Holy Land will never be able to enjoy their lives in peace and security. Paul VI said, "If you want peace, work for justice." He did not say "send more guns".
The dreams of groups, parties and government exploiting violence for power and control are the worst nightmares of the people. When one small group dreams such dreams, their dreams condemn the rest of humanity to live the nightmares. The "War on Terror" was one such dream.
Sad to say, polarization based on irresolvable conflicts esp when one side has a perpetual disadvantage has had this outcome throughout history. Whatever the tortured history of Gazan Palestine, it couldn't have occurred without Israeli retrenchment, aiding and abetting in keeping Gaza an "open prison" without economic development. Recycling rage hasn't helped, and it's not just Gazens at the root of this.
Opening a corridor between Gaza and Egypt to facilitate an exit for the Palestinians and parking a US carrier battle group with more firepower than the combined next two nations on the planet to facilitate an orderly exodus is a "win-win", wouldn't you say? Plenty of room in that big Egyptian desert for them there Palestinians (they're used to getting along without a lot of water anyway) and a fair chunk of prime contiguous real estate now available for gentrification.
Are you serious, Lisa? No sane person could possibly condone what Hamas has done in Israel. On the other hand, as Mr. Loomer so eloquently pointed out with his statement "Whatever the tortured history of Gazan Palestine, it couldn't have occurred without Israeli retrenchment, aiding and abetting in keeping Gaza an "open prison" without economic development" it isn't the Palestinians that are at blame here. I am so repulsed by our politicians' knee jerk unqualified support of Israel (while at the same time condemning China for its human rights violations for example) that I can't begin to express it. The level of hypocrisy here is unspeakable. When you see those pictures of Gaza being pounded to dust on the 6 o'clock news, think about the fact that the weapons used were produced in the USA and provided, gratis, to Bibi.
Clifford Story, your comment, including the words of Paul VI, were reflected in my thoughts about the effects of Hamas' massacre of Israelis, and I've had a question.
тАШтАжwhere will GazaтАЩs 2 million people goтАЩ?
It was also a question raised in the piece by Ishaan Tharoor with Sammy Westfall in The Washington Posts' newsletter, Today's WorldView. The piece is titled, 'The troubling analogies surrounding the new Israel-Hamas war'. I think that Ishaan Tharoor has provided a keen historical perspective and reflection about aspects of the years ahead for Israel, other countries in Middle East and powerful national leaders with a hand or fist in Middle East politics. A gifted link to the piece is below.
About half of the people, human beings, in the thin Gaza Strip are not adults. Another percentage are refugees from the 1948 War, 75 years ago. There have been 5 coalition governments in nation state of Israel in the last 3 years. The current government has leaders attempting to expand further into the West Bank while Netanyahu's is the subject of 3 corruption cases.
There are significant fault lines in the Jerusalem population as distinct from urban Tel Aviv & younger & modern Haifa. The resolution of the internal conflicts within Israel -- critically the end of Netanyahu's widely opposed effort to take over the independent Judiciary is a first step prior to the Israel-Hamas house-to-house, basement-to-basement War in Gaza.
Did the US make serious mistakes after 9/11? Fact Check: Yes.
Bryan, almost half of the population of Gaza is composed of children. My question holds, where does most of the population of Gaza go after Netanyahu's government has completed its military action there?
Thank you for sharing this. I think тАЬLettersтАЭ should stick with commentary on US history . Disappointed in the hubris of venturing into areas that she herself has acknowledged having little expertise.
My take on todayтАЩs edition of the тАЬLettersтАЭ is that HCR was discussing the historic speech that POTUS delivered in response to current events - not so much a deep dive into things outside her admitted wheelhouse.
Linda, You are an intelligent person. You cannot have failed to notice how intertwined most countries have become, and in so many different ways. Our economies, immigration, trade, climate change, & pollution, to name some examples. Also, the attacks on democracy have not been isolated to USA. The social media mis/disinformation attacks didnтАЩt just help divide/affect Americans, it affected Australia, United Kingdom (Brexit, anyone?), Canada, etc. There is both coordinated effort and opportunists who joined forces for their own gain. America is not a closed, self-sufficient island. America also has influence with other countries, if it didnтАЩt, Russia & China, for example, wouldnтАЩt be working so hard to fracture us and get us out of their way. Heather Cox Richardson is right to address this. Also, I donтАЩt remember seeing as many people complain about her writing about Ukraine...hmmm.
PS: Where are those who flee Gaza going to go and donтАЩt you think Republicans are actively working on how to use it to their advantage? America has done this before, like in Central America.
Let Heather follow her instincts to include whatever information she feels is important.
Definitely different histories. Bias? Not sure. SheтАЩs admittedly less knowledgeable about the histories of that region so she may rely on what she reads in the news, which we know is biased even when they give the weather report. I just feel the situation deserves a mention here since America has publicly taken a stand and we wonтАЩt be unaffected by this. Perhaps she should put a disclaimer each time she writes about Israel & Palestine to warn the fellow uninformed.
An underlying theme in both countries as well as many others of persecution . Russia starved Ukrainians Among other acts of the "other" Jews have been persecuted in Ukraine for centuries. Look @ what is happening in South America & why so many are fleeing. It is a world wide theme of seeing "others" as a threat & needing to be exterminated or controlled.
Linda, it is HeatherтАЩs Letters, and she can write about anything she wants to. She does more research than any of us would ever do, and probably has more expertise than most of us. If you donтАЩt like it, donтАЩt read it.
IsnтАЩt that one of the problems in the USA? Not reading opinion contrary to your own. And Heathers letters reach over 2 million people... a huge influence and good forum for discussion.
A "forum" is a place or a meeting and certainly a digital meeting place where ideas & views can be exchanged not "click bait".
I have substantial trial experience at taking a hard look at the so-called foundation, if any, of 'expert opinion'. Judges in CA have more authority now as evidentiary "gatekeepers" to exclude Junk Science & Blabber Points.
HCR has built a powerful digital Community which I deeply respect & we must all protect responsibly.
That discussion today is very informative and generally is respectful. Today is an excellent example. I am truly appreciating all the discussions here .
You are correct that she is a huge influence, and generally, I think that regardless of the subject of the letter, those who comment add information without resorting to propaganda.
HCR has acknowledged her expertise lies in US History. Having just finished listening to her new book, it shows us how much the US is intertwined with the rest of the world.
Yesterday she mentioned receiving hate mail from both sides. How can someone hate another person for reporting facts?
Heather has stated repeatedly in her videos and in-person appearances that as an historian she looks for the impact of news stories (of which there are blatantly obvious ones and others that are more obscure) that someone 150 years from now will be looking at how they impacted American history. This war, as well as that of Ukraine, very pointedly distinguish the different responses between US political parties and the historical perspective will be analyzed and written about for generations. In today's world, global events are intrinsically tied together and the U.S. sits on top of that pile.
In two videos that she did prior to the start of the book tour, Heather very clearly stated there are many subject areas she has limited-to-no knowledge. She has garnered much information and an education from those who are specialists and have provided her with an education in which she can put current events and their impact into American history perspective.
My husband is a collector of old newspapers and has a book by Todd Andrlik called "Reporting the Revolutionary War: Before It Was History, It Was News". As Heather has said (and I paraphrase), there is a big difference between the training of journalists and historians. The former report on the events, the latter tell us why it matters.
Excellent, Janet! This comment should appear above Heather's daily posts every day as a reminder to its readers. This extremely popular Substack newsletter is an attempt to project into the future and determine what historians will see as important when they look back at our chaotic era and then reporting that perspecitve daily as if it were the news. That's an extremely challenging concept to convey to readers, especially on a daily basis. Sometimes she succeeds, sometimes not. But I enjoy the historical experiment - plus, her writing is superb! (HCR is a cultural phenomenon, not unlike Taylor Swift. And her basic idea got her there.)
Thank you Robert. Heather definitely has the gift to cull through the noise and direct what eventually will become history. She has saved my sanity and broadened my base of knowledge and education beyond what I ever could have imagined when I first started reading the "Letters". I also listened to her weekly videos which helped me immensely getting through the drudgery of weeding the gardens! :)
You're welcome, Linda. The US is very involved with Middle East Affairs and a generous contributor of money, intelligence, weaponry and other support to Israel.
This letter reads like a news report describing what POTUS, Sec of State Blinken and others said. I see no expression of opinion by HCR. Maybe you don't like what THEY said.
Tell that to Hamas. тАЬKill the Jews,тАЭ is certainly too black-and-white, as you put it. Hamas needs to find another slogan. Hamas started this round of futile killing and destruction, which feeds into the hands of Bibi and the hard-liners in Israel, who fail to differentiate between Hamas, a terrorist organization with a nasty mission, and the Palestinian people.
Yes, exactly. It is a small and limited mind that generalizes from a small group of extremists committing an outrageous crime for political reasons to fearing the entire population of people the extremists came from.
It also occurred to me how generic we speak, like about guns rather than specifics. President Biden was very wise in his speech differentiating between a terrorist & Palestinian people
I am not getting the Letters in my email for Sat & sun. Using Substack s app, I dont get the comments. I tried submitting a help with Substack but it did not seem to take. Are u having any issues?
No need to change slogans; that's precisely what Hamas wants and means. Hamas is not about helping their Palestinian kin get a state of their own. They're about killing every Jew in Israel so "Palestine" can be reclaimed as part of the 7th Century Islamic Caliphate that Islamic fundamentalists like Hamas want as tribute to Allah.
If Israel and the Palis tomorrow morning announced the new State of Palestine and both sides were delighted and would make it work, Hamas on Sunday would launch the next massacre in the (shrunken) Israel. Hamas wants it all.
The complicating factor is that Israel did not exist for 2700 years, it having fallen to the Assyrians in about 722 B.C. Palestine had existed as a separate entity since the time of the Roman conquest in the first century of our era.
ItтАЩs not a complicating factor, it is the problem. The fact that the people who cooked up this idea of a homeland for the Jews failed to do any monitoring of how the newly minted Israelis integrated themselves into the existing culture, either were stupid beyond belief, or they thought that having a constant source of conflict in a distant corner of the world was a good idea, which is stupid beyond belief. Ugh.
Jews lost sovereignty over their kingdoms in the Levant more than once--Assyrians, Babylonians, Romans. It doesn't means the Jewish PEOPLE disappeared. Far as I know, the Jewish population, even when many were exiled by conquerors, never disappeared. The population line never broke; Jews have lived continuously in their land in which their people were born since 1500 BCE, even if they were not sovereign over most of those years. That they regained sovereignty is the right of any people to buy into, move into, and become sovereign over a land, if they can. The Jews can and did: fair, square, morally, and legally.
So it's not a complicating factor or, as Notes says below, "the problem." Palestine had two primary populations: Muslims since the 600s CE, Jews since the 1500s BCE. When came time for the Mandate to hand conquered Ottoman territory to local populations for states of their own, Palestine's Jews were as entitled to one as every Arab nation that received one.
Jewish Palestinians took the half of Palestine offered them by the UN and created Israel. Arab Palestinians rejected their half and invaded Israel to steal both. They wound up holding their asses instead of their state, then 1967 came along, another Arab invasion, another Arab loss, and all of a sudden Israel owned it all.
It is extremely complicated and fraught with all kinds of emotion. I've read that in all likelihood a large number of the Muslims who lived in Palestine were originally Jews. I have not read enough to know how the animosity between Islam and Judaism developed. I do know, however, that the cruelty being exhibited by those in Hamas right now is beyond description. Just hearing about it has brought me to tears several times. I am reading about the fall of the Commanche Indians in Texas. The White Man had killed off their source of food and had taken over their land - violently. The Comanches hated the white man viscerally and some of what they did to captured white people was brutal and cruel. So, with respect to the current conflict in Israel and parts of the Middle East, there is no question but that the hate is visceral. The question is: need it be?
When I wrote the first comment in this thread, I was thinking of Biden's speech, and his black-and-white attitude. I quoted Paul VI because I've always liked the quotation, it certainly applies, and because Biden is a Catholic. The point I wanted to make is that Biden needs to work for justice, not further inflame the endless tit-for-tat cycle of violence. The policy of the U.S. has for decades been that of an enabler, encouraging one side to commit outrages, which then spurs the other side to respond in kind, and then the first responds to that, and so on. Biden has been wrapped up in that all his political life. It, and he, need to change.
I did not criticize anything Heather said, and I was thinking of what we do in the U.S., surely within the bounds of this blog. I'm disappointed that so much of the thread became consumed by the Israel vs. Palestinians argument. That, I agree, belongs in another blog.
There is a whole lot of grey in this black and white world. Unfortunately, shocking events tend to make political тАШleadersтАЩ forget it, and they immediately use Manichaeism as their go to. Norman F. reminds us of some of the grey here:
This black-and-white attitude is the principal reason the people who live in the Holy Land will never be able to enjoy their lives in peace and security. Paul VI said, "If you want peace, work for justice." He did not say "send more guns".
Thank you Clifford.
The dreams of groups, parties and government exploiting violence for power and control are the worst nightmares of the people. When one small group dreams such dreams, their dreams condemn the rest of humanity to live the nightmares. The "War on Terror" was one such dream.
https://www.commondreams.org/news/btselem-israel-gaza
Sad to say, polarization based on irresolvable conflicts esp when one side has a perpetual disadvantage has had this outcome throughout history. Whatever the tortured history of Gazan Palestine, it couldn't have occurred without Israeli retrenchment, aiding and abetting in keeping Gaza an "open prison" without economic development. Recycling rage hasn't helped, and it's not just Gazens at the root of this.
Opening a corridor between Gaza and Egypt to facilitate an exit for the Palestinians and parking a US carrier battle group with more firepower than the combined next two nations on the planet to facilitate an orderly exodus is a "win-win", wouldn't you say? Plenty of room in that big Egyptian desert for them there Palestinians (they're used to getting along without a lot of water anyway) and a fair chunk of prime contiguous real estate now available for gentrification.
Touch of irony there, right?
Hope so.
Are you serious, Lisa? No sane person could possibly condone what Hamas has done in Israel. On the other hand, as Mr. Loomer so eloquently pointed out with his statement "Whatever the tortured history of Gazan Palestine, it couldn't have occurred without Israeli retrenchment, aiding and abetting in keeping Gaza an "open prison" without economic development" it isn't the Palestinians that are at blame here. I am so repulsed by our politicians' knee jerk unqualified support of Israel (while at the same time condemning China for its human rights violations for example) that I can't begin to express it. The level of hypocrisy here is unspeakable. When you see those pictures of Gaza being pounded to dust on the 6 o'clock news, think about the fact that the weapons used were produced in the USA and provided, gratis, to Bibi.
And on the same morning I read LFAA and its calm and reasoned unfurling of BidenтАЩs speech and surrounding issues, I also read this Popular Information post and remain in despair. https://open.substack.com/pub/popularinformation/p/charles-kochs-5-billion-tax-loophole?r=2xq6n&utm_medium=ios&utm_campaign=post
Depressing and maddening.
Clifford Story, your comment, including the words of Paul VI, were reflected in my thoughts about the effects of Hamas' massacre of Israelis, and I've had a question.
тАШтАжwhere will GazaтАЩs 2 million people goтАЩ?
It was also a question raised in the piece by Ishaan Tharoor with Sammy Westfall in The Washington Posts' newsletter, Today's WorldView. The piece is titled, 'The troubling analogies surrounding the new Israel-Hamas war'. I think that Ishaan Tharoor has provided a keen historical perspective and reflection about aspects of the years ahead for Israel, other countries in Middle East and powerful national leaders with a hand or fist in Middle East politics. A gifted link to the piece is below.
https://wapo.st/48LhM1D
About half of the people, human beings, in the thin Gaza Strip are not adults. Another percentage are refugees from the 1948 War, 75 years ago. There have been 5 coalition governments in nation state of Israel in the last 3 years. The current government has leaders attempting to expand further into the West Bank while Netanyahu's is the subject of 3 corruption cases.
There are significant fault lines in the Jerusalem population as distinct from urban Tel Aviv & younger & modern Haifa. The resolution of the internal conflicts within Israel -- critically the end of Netanyahu's widely opposed effort to take over the independent Judiciary is a first step prior to the Israel-Hamas house-to-house, basement-to-basement War in Gaza.
Did the US make serious mistakes after 9/11? Fact Check: Yes.
Bryan, almost half of the population of Gaza is composed of children. My question holds, where does most of the population of Gaza go after Netanyahu's government has completed its military action there?
Certainly not a "corridor" to Egypt a reverse exodus.
Egypt has closed its border to Gaza since 2007. They are protecting themselves against terrorism.
Confirmed closed by Jonathan Lemire on "Way to Early.".MSNBC this am
Thank you.
Thank you for sharing this. I think тАЬLettersтАЭ should stick with commentary on US history . Disappointed in the hubris of venturing into areas that she herself has acknowledged having little expertise.
My take on todayтАЩs edition of the тАЬLettersтАЭ is that HCR was discussing the historic speech that POTUS delivered in response to current events - not so much a deep dive into things outside her admitted wheelhouse.
Linda, You are an intelligent person. You cannot have failed to notice how intertwined most countries have become, and in so many different ways. Our economies, immigration, trade, climate change, & pollution, to name some examples. Also, the attacks on democracy have not been isolated to USA. The social media mis/disinformation attacks didnтАЩt just help divide/affect Americans, it affected Australia, United Kingdom (Brexit, anyone?), Canada, etc. There is both coordinated effort and opportunists who joined forces for their own gain. America is not a closed, self-sufficient island. America also has influence with other countries, if it didnтАЩt, Russia & China, for example, wouldnтАЩt be working so hard to fracture us and get us out of their way. Heather Cox Richardson is right to address this. Also, I donтАЩt remember seeing as many people complain about her writing about Ukraine...hmmm.
PS: Where are those who flee Gaza going to go and donтАЩt you think Republicans are actively working on how to use it to their advantage? America has done this before, like in Central America.
Let Heather follow her instincts to include whatever information she feels is important.
I donтАЩt recall such clear bias in writing about Ukraine. Certainly a different history there.
Definitely different histories. Bias? Not sure. SheтАЩs admittedly less knowledgeable about the histories of that region so she may rely on what she reads in the news, which we know is biased even when they give the weather report. I just feel the situation deserves a mention here since America has publicly taken a stand and we wonтАЩt be unaffected by this. Perhaps she should put a disclaimer each time she writes about Israel & Palestine to warn the fellow uninformed.
An underlying theme in both countries as well as many others of persecution . Russia starved Ukrainians Among other acts of the "other" Jews have been persecuted in Ukraine for centuries. Look @ what is happening in South America & why so many are fleeing. It is a world wide theme of seeing "others" as a threat & needing to be exterminated or controlled.
What bias?
Linda, it is HeatherтАЩs Letters, and she can write about anything she wants to. She does more research than any of us would ever do, and probably has more expertise than most of us. If you donтАЩt like it, donтАЩt read it.
IsnтАЩt that one of the problems in the USA? Not reading opinion contrary to your own. And Heathers letters reach over 2 million people... a huge influence and good forum for discussion.
A "forum" is a place or a meeting and certainly a digital meeting place where ideas & views can be exchanged not "click bait".
I have substantial trial experience at taking a hard look at the so-called foundation, if any, of 'expert opinion'. Judges in CA have more authority now as evidentiary "gatekeepers" to exclude Junk Science & Blabber Points.
HCR has built a powerful digital Community which I deeply respect & we must all protect responsibly.
That discussion today is very informative and generally is respectful. Today is an excellent example. I am truly appreciating all the discussions here .
You are correct that she is a huge influence, and generally, I think that regardless of the subject of the letter, those who comment add information without resorting to propaganda.
HCR has acknowledged her expertise lies in US History. Having just finished listening to her new book, it shows us how much the US is intertwined with the rest of the world.
Yesterday she mentioned receiving hate mail from both sides. How can someone hate another person for reporting facts?
Ask your question to any MAGA supporter; that's about all they do.
Agreed. But they are incapable of thinking for themselves. They can only parrot TFFG and far-right media.
People keep saying this. We might do better to give the MAGA credit for making their own decisions, and just being really really in error.
Heather has stated repeatedly in her videos and in-person appearances that as an historian she looks for the impact of news stories (of which there are blatantly obvious ones and others that are more obscure) that someone 150 years from now will be looking at how they impacted American history. This war, as well as that of Ukraine, very pointedly distinguish the different responses between US political parties and the historical perspective will be analyzed and written about for generations. In today's world, global events are intrinsically tied together and the U.S. sits on top of that pile.
In two videos that she did prior to the start of the book tour, Heather very clearly stated there are many subject areas she has limited-to-no knowledge. She has garnered much information and an education from those who are specialists and have provided her with an education in which she can put current events and their impact into American history perspective.
My husband is a collector of old newspapers and has a book by Todd Andrlik called "Reporting the Revolutionary War: Before It Was History, It Was News". As Heather has said (and I paraphrase), there is a big difference between the training of journalists and historians. The former report on the events, the latter tell us why it matters.
Excellent, Janet! This comment should appear above Heather's daily posts every day as a reminder to its readers. This extremely popular Substack newsletter is an attempt to project into the future and determine what historians will see as important when they look back at our chaotic era and then reporting that perspecitve daily as if it were the news. That's an extremely challenging concept to convey to readers, especially on a daily basis. Sometimes she succeeds, sometimes not. But I enjoy the historical experiment - plus, her writing is superb! (HCR is a cultural phenomenon, not unlike Taylor Swift. And her basic idea got her there.)
Thank you Robert. Heather definitely has the gift to cull through the noise and direct what eventually will become history. She has saved my sanity and broadened my base of knowledge and education beyond what I ever could have imagined when I first started reading the "Letters". I also listened to her weekly videos which helped me immensely getting through the drudgery of weeding the gardens! :)
You're welcome, Linda. The US is very involved with Middle East Affairs and a generous contributor of money, intelligence, weaponry and other support to Israel.
Fern! I know you only mistyped or, worse, that damn тАЬautocorrectтАЭ: youтАЩre, not your.
Thank you, MLMinET. Correction ahead. Crossing my fingers would jinx the operation.
The US sends a lot of money to Egypt, too.
This letter reads like a news report describing what POTUS, Sec of State Blinken and others said. I see no expression of opinion by HCR. Maybe you don't like what THEY said.
Respectfully, when you write the letters YOU can stick to US commentary. And 'she' has a name.
There is none so blind as he who will not see.
Tell that to Hamas. тАЬKill the Jews,тАЭ is certainly too black-and-white, as you put it. Hamas needs to find another slogan. Hamas started this round of futile killing and destruction, which feeds into the hands of Bibi and the hard-liners in Israel, who fail to differentiate between Hamas, a terrorist organization with a nasty mission, and the Palestinian people.
Like what happened after 9/11 to mosques. X ban on moslems . It is what I see my R congressional critters doing in their fb posts.
Yes, exactly. It is a small and limited mind that generalizes from a small group of extremists committing an outrageous crime for political reasons to fearing the entire population of people the extremists came from.
It also occurred to me how generic we speak, like about guns rather than specifics. President Biden was very wise in his speech differentiating between a terrorist & Palestinian people
Also , exactly. President Biden is very wise.
I am not getting the Letters in my email for Sat & sun. Using Substack s app, I dont get the comments. I tried submitting a help with Substack but it did not seem to take. Are u having any issues?
No need to change slogans; that's precisely what Hamas wants and means. Hamas is not about helping their Palestinian kin get a state of their own. They're about killing every Jew in Israel so "Palestine" can be reclaimed as part of the 7th Century Islamic Caliphate that Islamic fundamentalists like Hamas want as tribute to Allah.
If Israel and the Palis tomorrow morning announced the new State of Palestine and both sides were delighted and would make it work, Hamas on Sunday would launch the next massacre in the (shrunken) Israel. Hamas wants it all.
The complicating factor is that Israel did not exist for 2700 years, it having fallen to the Assyrians in about 722 B.C. Palestine had existed as a separate entity since the time of the Roman conquest in the first century of our era.
ItтАЩs not a complicating factor, it is the problem. The fact that the people who cooked up this idea of a homeland for the Jews failed to do any monitoring of how the newly minted Israelis integrated themselves into the existing culture, either were stupid beyond belief, or they thought that having a constant source of conflict in a distant corner of the world was a good idea, which is stupid beyond belief. Ugh.
I agree completely. And where else on earth has ancient history dictated modern land ownership? It is an absurd proposition.
Jews lost sovereignty over their kingdoms in the Levant more than once--Assyrians, Babylonians, Romans. It doesn't means the Jewish PEOPLE disappeared. Far as I know, the Jewish population, even when many were exiled by conquerors, never disappeared. The population line never broke; Jews have lived continuously in their land in which their people were born since 1500 BCE, even if they were not sovereign over most of those years. That they regained sovereignty is the right of any people to buy into, move into, and become sovereign over a land, if they can. The Jews can and did: fair, square, morally, and legally.
So it's not a complicating factor or, as Notes says below, "the problem." Palestine had two primary populations: Muslims since the 600s CE, Jews since the 1500s BCE. When came time for the Mandate to hand conquered Ottoman territory to local populations for states of their own, Palestine's Jews were as entitled to one as every Arab nation that received one.
Jewish Palestinians took the half of Palestine offered them by the UN and created Israel. Arab Palestinians rejected their half and invaded Israel to steal both. They wound up holding their asses instead of their state, then 1967 came along, another Arab invasion, another Arab loss, and all of a sudden Israel owned it all.
It is extremely complicated and fraught with all kinds of emotion. I've read that in all likelihood a large number of the Muslims who lived in Palestine were originally Jews. I have not read enough to know how the animosity between Islam and Judaism developed. I do know, however, that the cruelty being exhibited by those in Hamas right now is beyond description. Just hearing about it has brought me to tears several times. I am reading about the fall of the Commanche Indians in Texas. The White Man had killed off their source of food and had taken over their land - violently. The Comanches hated the white man viscerally and some of what they did to captured white people was brutal and cruel. So, with respect to the current conflict in Israel and parts of the Middle East, there is no question but that the hate is visceral. The question is: need it be?
When I wrote the first comment in this thread, I was thinking of Biden's speech, and his black-and-white attitude. I quoted Paul VI because I've always liked the quotation, it certainly applies, and because Biden is a Catholic. The point I wanted to make is that Biden needs to work for justice, not further inflame the endless tit-for-tat cycle of violence. The policy of the U.S. has for decades been that of an enabler, encouraging one side to commit outrages, which then spurs the other side to respond in kind, and then the first responds to that, and so on. Biden has been wrapped up in that all his political life. It, and he, need to change.
I did not criticize anything Heather said, and I was thinking of what we do in the U.S., surely within the bounds of this blog. I'm disappointed that so much of the thread became consumed by the Israel vs. Palestinians argument. That, I agree, belongs in another blog.
The Pope likely meant human rights, as well.
There is a whole lot of grey in this black and white world. Unfortunately, shocking events tend to make political тАШleadersтАЩ forget it, and they immediately use Manichaeism as their go to. Norman F. reminds us of some of the grey here:
Finkelstein
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tv9XAebqHZY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G12Z0td-Nqo