I was taken aback by Sam Waterston’ reading the Lincoln’s Address in Ken Burns’ Civil War series. Every other reading I’ve heard placed the emphasis on the prepositions in the last sentence, i.e. OF the people, BY the people, FOR the people. Waterston placed the emphasis on the word ‘people,’ i.e. of the PEOPLE, by the PEOPLE, for the …
I was taken aback by Sam Waterston’ reading the Lincoln’s Address in Ken Burns’ Civil War series. Every other reading I’ve heard placed the emphasis on the prepositions in the last sentence, i.e. OF the people, BY the people, FOR the people. Waterston placed the emphasis on the word ‘people,’ i.e. of the PEOPLE, by the PEOPLE, for the PEOPLE. It sounded odd at first. But as I thought of Waterston’s change in emphasis more and more, I began to think of us PEOPLE as active participants in assuring the all people have the right to live, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, rather than mere recipients of the rights, fought for by others. Now every time I read the Address, I follow Waterston’s example by emphasizing the role of the PEOPLE in assuring these rights.
I find it fascinating that Lincoln chose to use the word PEOPLE rather than MEN in his final sentence. Think of how differently we might think of the Address if he had written “of men, by men, for men” instead.
He did sometimes use the word"men" in that way, as was the custom of the era. I welcome more inclusive language. More Lincolnian sagacious poetry.
"Our defense is in the preservation of the spirit which prizes liberty as the heritage of all men, in all lands, everywhere. Destroy this spirit, and you have planted the seeds of despotism around your own doors. Familiarize yourselves with the chains of bondage and you are preparing your own limbs to wear them. Accustomed to trample on the rights of those around you, you have lost the genius of your own independence, and become the fit subjects of the first cunning tyrant who rises."
I’ve always appreciated clarity in concise form. Y’all satisfy that fascination in me and none as much as Professor HCR quoting the words of our most humble and inspirational President who was meant to live in his time. I’m also reminded that “Republican” was his party, so unlike its appearance of today.
Many Americans, especially those who support Trump and his acolytes, cannot think by the kind of extension your comment makes. All these Trumpian folks hear is MY liberty, MY freedom, MY house, MY family, MY job, MY church; other folks’s freedom, house, family, job, church, school seem like the enemy and therefore needing extermination …. It never occurs to Trump-lovers that the rights to life, liberty and happiness apply either to all people at all times or they are revocable to anyone at any time.
it is the difference between narcissism and emotionally "adult", between tyranny and a just, constitutional democracy. We all pursue self-interest and I suspect we all cope with narcissistic urges. I do. But a physically adult human who cares exclusively for self-interest while indifferent to that of others, or who even enjoys making others suffer, is a sociopath, and potentially extremely dangerous. Even more danger lies in cults of narcissism for, which history provides far too many examples. I think we as a society must get more "real" about what is at stake. My take on Lincoln's subject matter.
1. there is a rational (or healthy) level of self-interest that benefits the individual and is in fact essential to a democratic society and
2. There is an irrational (or unhealthy) level of self interest that is eventually destructive of both the the individual and is in fact inimical to democratic society, and
3. If we want to . “get more real” we must think more rationally?
Then I agree.
Unfortunately, rational thought is, by the way, the one thing many politicians abhor and voters don’t do. For example, the case of Herschel Walker’s most recent stump speech on the important topic of werewolves and vampires. A rational politician would never publicly claim to prefer being one to the other. And a rational person would never vote for a candidate who claims to prefer himself as a werewolf rather than a vampire. Yet 49% of Georgia voters gave their approval to a werewolf wannabe!
Alas. And as a matter of lived human experience, wisdom seems to involve integration of rational, evidence-based assessment of circumstances with a keen sense of what "really matters", assessment of accuracy and value, like Einstein deciding to chase light beams in his mind rather than just watching the game. Like Lincoln looking at liberty in context. If it's of, by and for The People we want, we collectively choose to steer the "ship of state". Bad, careless, of negligent decisions at the wheel can quickly lead to "maritime disaster".
Precisely on point. "... rights to life, liberty and happiness apply either to all people at all times or they are revocable to anyone at any time." There will always be a cadre of folks who believe themselves to be 'special cases', and that cadre is not limited to _rumpians. Consider for a moment parts of the current gop coalition 'big tent' ; 1.) extremist dogmatic religious zealots, 2.) anarchists, including conspiracy theory acolytes, bigots and misogynists, 3.) Commerce / profit first and always zealots, 4.) Republican first, american second automatons. 5.) General collection of hell bent, bitter, resentful hearts - or holes where hearts should be. And no, they don't get it, including the ones who consider themselves 'deep thinkers', who may think they are 'using / manipulating' the clueless and think they can get this genie back in the bottle.
J L - Thanks for mentioning these words spoken by Lincoln. He spoke of "the spirit which prizes liberty as the heritage of all men, in all lands, everywhere." All men, etc., perhaps with the emphasis on 'all'.
We sometimes forget, collectively or individually, that while we prize our freedom of this and that, freedom to do this or that, we are actually impinging on others' freedoms to do their own "this and that". By doing so we are falling into the very trap Lincoln is warning us against, namely that by familiarizing ourselves with chains, by trampling on the rights of others, we have indeed lost our own independence and become fit for the first tyrant who arises. How true those words are!
Tyranny can be very seductive as well as coercive. Like a movie monster that does not seem ever to really die, it keeps rearing its ugly head.
And to underline your point, as FDR pointed out, freedom is freedom from as well as freedom to. Freedom from robbery or rape precludes any possible "right" to rape or rob. Freedom from air pollution impacts one's choice to pollute the air. How do we provide a robust palette of diverse and creative choices and "all get along"? Actively promoting honestly, empathy, and a collective contract may be as good as it gets.
Hence, law and order, where no one is above the law - including and especially those with armies of lawyers to subvert and undermine the rule of law. Now, if only that could work in practice (?).
So powerful in 2 minutes; it compares poorly to others who blather on, with little respect for our democracy. It is a great reminder of those who fought, died, including Lincoln, and were injured, for our freedom. Thank goodness for them all! It is left to us to carry the work forward!
I am thankful that he didn't use the word men. We women have had more than an uphill fight to be accorded the rights and freedoms for which we have given every measure as well for this nation. We would not want to think we would have had to fight Lincoln as well.
Fran Your focus on Sam Waterston’s Lincoln reading of PEOPLE is spot on. I have been re-watching Ken (and Ric) Burns Civil War during my nightly exercises.
I felt Lincoln’s despair as tens of thousands of Union soldiers were slaughtered in battle because of poor generalship. Gettysburg came only months after the disasters of Fredericksburg and Chancellorsville. After McClellan, Burnside, Hooker, and others, Lincoln was desperate for a winning general.
U. S. Grant took the key citadel of Vicksburg on the Mississippi the day of Pickett’s disastrous charge at Gettysburg. Lincoln in Grant had fought his fighting general, with Sherman, Grant’s sidekick.
With such profound wartime grief, I am astonished that Lincoln was able to speak like an angel in his unforgettable two minute Gettysburg eulology.
There is an excellent book on death in the Civil War called The Republic of Suffering. I read it several years ago and it made a deep impression on me. A good death in a more religious America was in your home town surrounded by your family and friends and remembered and buried by them. The Civil War turned this upside down with so many soldiers dying in a very different manner. Some parents spent a lot of time trying to find their sons' bodies. Also thou shalt not kill made some refuse to kill the enemy. I was going to reference it more, but must have loaned it to someone because i can't find it on the shelf.
Michele What I recall from the Burns’ Civil War was that death and dying was so matter of fact, after futile charges by brave men. At Antietam, Fredericksburg, and elsewhere, one heard of the moans and cries on the battlefield.
Joseph Chamberlain (FRedericksburg?) spoke of the cold and pulling two dead bodies together as he slept with these bodies.
Deaths on Civil War battlefields were not considered "good" deaths as the book describes. It must have been horrific and of course, people could survive weapons that didn't shred bodies as modern ones do There was a series on PBS for awhile which was set in a hospital somewhere behind the lines, but run by Yanks. Awful. Lots of sawing off of limbs. I have an ancestor who survived, but was crippled and walked with a cane which he made a habit of hitting everyone with. Apparently when he died, everyone was glad.
I cried when I read Lincoln's words in today's letter. Then I listened to Waterston's reading and was especially struck by the force in the words "...we here highly resolve..." In an instant, my mind flew forward through the next 159 years, beyond the devastating slaughter of Gettysburg, through a century and a half of horrifying cruelty enacted upon people of color or "others" and millions of lifetimes spent struggling and suffering because of the systematic suppression of equal rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness for ALL people.
As I and thousands of others write postcards to GA youth and text-bank GA voters in the next two weeks and continue to take various targeted actions in the next two years, we can join in Lincoln's pledge "...that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain."
I agree. It’s the best reading of the Address, imho. I also was rooting for Waterston to get the part of Lincoln in the Spielberg movie, but Daniel Day-Lewis did a great job.
By the way, if you’re interested in Waterston’s interpretation of another famous Lincoln speech, he recreated the Cooper Union speech at Cooper Union. It’s long, but once he gets past the legal framework Lincoln used, it’s a moving experience.
Thank you so very much for your comments, Fran! I have an even greater appreciation for President Lincoln (if that was possible) after digesting this interpretation. We will rise again, as we have so often in our history under severe and heinous conditions.
Personhood, I believe is measurable and can discriminate qualified individuals into levels. So, all men are not equal but can be improved with training, experience, calibration and review.
Unfortunately, a majority of Americans have not developed the foresight to even reach the Micawber Threshold so democracy is a poor choice of government. Representative democracy would work if we could trust political parties to select qualified candidates. But that has also failed.
Governments must put more focus on developing resilient personhood around the world rather than focus on some abstract human rights agenda.
I was taken aback by Sam Waterston’ reading the Lincoln’s Address in Ken Burns’ Civil War series. Every other reading I’ve heard placed the emphasis on the prepositions in the last sentence, i.e. OF the people, BY the people, FOR the people. Waterston placed the emphasis on the word ‘people,’ i.e. of the PEOPLE, by the PEOPLE, for the PEOPLE. It sounded odd at first. But as I thought of Waterston’s change in emphasis more and more, I began to think of us PEOPLE as active participants in assuring the all people have the right to live, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, rather than mere recipients of the rights, fought for by others. Now every time I read the Address, I follow Waterston’s example by emphasizing the role of the PEOPLE in assuring these rights.
I find it fascinating that Lincoln chose to use the word PEOPLE rather than MEN in his final sentence. Think of how differently we might think of the Address if he had written “of men, by men, for men” instead.
He did sometimes use the word"men" in that way, as was the custom of the era. I welcome more inclusive language. More Lincolnian sagacious poetry.
"Our defense is in the preservation of the spirit which prizes liberty as the heritage of all men, in all lands, everywhere. Destroy this spirit, and you have planted the seeds of despotism around your own doors. Familiarize yourselves with the chains of bondage and you are preparing your own limbs to wear them. Accustomed to trample on the rights of those around you, you have lost the genius of your own independence, and become the fit subjects of the first cunning tyrant who rises."
“….and become the fit subjects of the first cunning tyrant who rises.” Just wow….JL, thank you.
A warning in perfect prose, heed or regret for generations
No kidding. “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you!”
What we fear most we bring about for ourselves if we deign ourselves worthy of doing it to others.
Heavy. True. Divine self-fulfilling prophecy.
Yikes!
I think you mean 'deem' rather than 'deign'.
Thank you.
This quote is why I read these comments.
I have sent it to all my Republican friends asking if this could be: "Trumpty Dumpty".
Should be an interesting day.
I'm gonna give that a try too, Mike. We'll see what kind of response my freedumb friends have to this.
I’ve always appreciated clarity in concise form. Y’all satisfy that fascination in me and none as much as Professor HCR quoting the words of our most humble and inspirational President who was meant to live in his time. I’m also reminded that “Republican” was his party, so unlike its appearance of today.
2 comments, both positive. So far.
Many Americans, especially those who support Trump and his acolytes, cannot think by the kind of extension your comment makes. All these Trumpian folks hear is MY liberty, MY freedom, MY house, MY family, MY job, MY church; other folks’s freedom, house, family, job, church, school seem like the enemy and therefore needing extermination …. It never occurs to Trump-lovers that the rights to life, liberty and happiness apply either to all people at all times or they are revocable to anyone at any time.
it is the difference between narcissism and emotionally "adult", between tyranny and a just, constitutional democracy. We all pursue self-interest and I suspect we all cope with narcissistic urges. I do. But a physically adult human who cares exclusively for self-interest while indifferent to that of others, or who even enjoys making others suffer, is a sociopath, and potentially extremely dangerous. Even more danger lies in cults of narcissism for, which history provides far too many examples. I think we as a society must get more "real" about what is at stake. My take on Lincoln's subject matter.
Hmmm…so you are saying that
1. there is a rational (or healthy) level of self-interest that benefits the individual and is in fact essential to a democratic society and
2. There is an irrational (or unhealthy) level of self interest that is eventually destructive of both the the individual and is in fact inimical to democratic society, and
3. If we want to . “get more real” we must think more rationally?
Then I agree.
Unfortunately, rational thought is, by the way, the one thing many politicians abhor and voters don’t do. For example, the case of Herschel Walker’s most recent stump speech on the important topic of werewolves and vampires. A rational politician would never publicly claim to prefer being one to the other. And a rational person would never vote for a candidate who claims to prefer himself as a werewolf rather than a vampire. Yet 49% of Georgia voters gave their approval to a werewolf wannabe!
Alas. And as a matter of lived human experience, wisdom seems to involve integration of rational, evidence-based assessment of circumstances with a keen sense of what "really matters", assessment of accuracy and value, like Einstein deciding to chase light beams in his mind rather than just watching the game. Like Lincoln looking at liberty in context. If it's of, by and for The People we want, we collectively choose to steer the "ship of state". Bad, careless, of negligent decisions at the wheel can quickly lead to "maritime disaster".
Precisely on point. "... rights to life, liberty and happiness apply either to all people at all times or they are revocable to anyone at any time." There will always be a cadre of folks who believe themselves to be 'special cases', and that cadre is not limited to _rumpians. Consider for a moment parts of the current gop coalition 'big tent' ; 1.) extremist dogmatic religious zealots, 2.) anarchists, including conspiracy theory acolytes, bigots and misogynists, 3.) Commerce / profit first and always zealots, 4.) Republican first, american second automatons. 5.) General collection of hell bent, bitter, resentful hearts - or holes where hearts should be. And no, they don't get it, including the ones who consider themselves 'deep thinkers', who may think they are 'using / manipulating' the clueless and think they can get this genie back in the bottle.
Amen to this statement, it is heard constantly whenever the trumpian crowds gather.
Thank you for this.
J L - Thanks for mentioning these words spoken by Lincoln. He spoke of "the spirit which prizes liberty as the heritage of all men, in all lands, everywhere." All men, etc., perhaps with the emphasis on 'all'.
We sometimes forget, collectively or individually, that while we prize our freedom of this and that, freedom to do this or that, we are actually impinging on others' freedoms to do their own "this and that". By doing so we are falling into the very trap Lincoln is warning us against, namely that by familiarizing ourselves with chains, by trampling on the rights of others, we have indeed lost our own independence and become fit for the first tyrant who arises. How true those words are!
Tyranny can be very seductive as well as coercive. Like a movie monster that does not seem ever to really die, it keeps rearing its ugly head.
And to underline your point, as FDR pointed out, freedom is freedom from as well as freedom to. Freedom from robbery or rape precludes any possible "right" to rape or rob. Freedom from air pollution impacts one's choice to pollute the air. How do we provide a robust palette of diverse and creative choices and "all get along"? Actively promoting honestly, empathy, and a collective contract may be as good as it gets.
Hence, law and order, where no one is above the law - including and especially those with armies of lawyers to subvert and undermine the rule of law. Now, if only that could work in practice (?).
Your last sentence here, JL, says it all to us who wish to remain sane.
Fran, here is the link to Waterston’s wonderful rendition of the Gettysburg Address: https://youtu.be/W3TgkH7VGSk Magnificent reading. Thank you!
So powerful in 2 minutes; it compares poorly to others who blather on, with little respect for our democracy. It is a great reminder of those who fought, died, including Lincoln, and were injured, for our freedom. Thank goodness for them all! It is left to us to carry the work forward!
"compares poorly"? (Some more nitpicking for today.)
Thanks so much for that link! Really, thank you.
Elizabeth, I hadn’t heard it before. Thank you so much for sharing the link!
Same here. Powerful.
Thank you! Loved hearing it again!
Here is the clip from Ken Burns' The Civil War: https://youtu.be/qCXUbQ4JjXI?t=216
Perfect. Nothing and remembering.
Noting
Such powerful words. Pray that we are wise enough to heed them, now more than ever. Thank you.
Thank you for sharing Waterston’s rendition.
Goose flesh provoking.
Thanks Elisabeth.
Beautiful. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for this link, Elisabeth!
Thank you!! I listened, shivering with emotion, and now I'm posting.
"We the People ... "
The Constitution does begin with the words "We the People" writ large.
The law of the land.
I am thankful that he didn't use the word men. We women have had more than an uphill fight to be accorded the rights and freedoms for which we have given every measure as well for this nation. We would not want to think we would have had to fight Lincoln as well.
Lincoln knew he had to go home and answer to his coach and perhaps the one critic that he really feared - Mary. She was a tremendous influence on him.
I never thought of that. Thank you Fran!
Wonderful, Fran! You have changed the meaning for me....I think the one Lincoln intended. I love Sam Waterston, btw....
" ... the role of the PEOPLE in assuring these rights" is again imperative at this very moment.
I am also fond of Waterson’s reading of it.
Fran Your focus on Sam Waterston’s Lincoln reading of PEOPLE is spot on. I have been re-watching Ken (and Ric) Burns Civil War during my nightly exercises.
I felt Lincoln’s despair as tens of thousands of Union soldiers were slaughtered in battle because of poor generalship. Gettysburg came only months after the disasters of Fredericksburg and Chancellorsville. After McClellan, Burnside, Hooker, and others, Lincoln was desperate for a winning general.
U. S. Grant took the key citadel of Vicksburg on the Mississippi the day of Pickett’s disastrous charge at Gettysburg. Lincoln in Grant had fought his fighting general, with Sherman, Grant’s sidekick.
With such profound wartime grief, I am astonished that Lincoln was able to speak like an angel in his unforgettable two minute Gettysburg eulology.
There is an excellent book on death in the Civil War called The Republic of Suffering. I read it several years ago and it made a deep impression on me. A good death in a more religious America was in your home town surrounded by your family and friends and remembered and buried by them. The Civil War turned this upside down with so many soldiers dying in a very different manner. Some parents spent a lot of time trying to find their sons' bodies. Also thou shalt not kill made some refuse to kill the enemy. I was going to reference it more, but must have loaned it to someone because i can't find it on the shelf.
Michele What I recall from the Burns’ Civil War was that death and dying was so matter of fact, after futile charges by brave men. At Antietam, Fredericksburg, and elsewhere, one heard of the moans and cries on the battlefield.
Joseph Chamberlain (FRedericksburg?) spoke of the cold and pulling two dead bodies together as he slept with these bodies.
Deaths on Civil War battlefields were not considered "good" deaths as the book describes. It must have been horrific and of course, people could survive weapons that didn't shred bodies as modern ones do There was a series on PBS for awhile which was set in a hospital somewhere behind the lines, but run by Yanks. Awful. Lots of sawing off of limbs. I have an ancestor who survived, but was crippled and walked with a cane which he made a habit of hitting everyone with. Apparently when he died, everyone was glad.
Drew Gilpin Faust 2008, Vintage Civil War Library. See Google Books.
BTB, she was President of Harvard University.
Yes. I looked it up. I wish I knew where my copy is. I really learned a lot from this book.
The example I recall from the book was a Confederate who refused even when threatened with death himself.
Thanks for the info.
I cried when I read Lincoln's words in today's letter. Then I listened to Waterston's reading and was especially struck by the force in the words "...we here highly resolve..." In an instant, my mind flew forward through the next 159 years, beyond the devastating slaughter of Gettysburg, through a century and a half of horrifying cruelty enacted upon people of color or "others" and millions of lifetimes spent struggling and suffering because of the systematic suppression of equal rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness for ALL people.
As I and thousands of others write postcards to GA youth and text-bank GA voters in the next two weeks and continue to take various targeted actions in the next two years, we can join in Lincoln's pledge "...that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain."
I agree. It’s the best reading of the Address, imho. I also was rooting for Waterston to get the part of Lincoln in the Spielberg movie, but Daniel Day-Lewis did a great job.
By the way, if you’re interested in Waterston’s interpretation of another famous Lincoln speech, he recreated the Cooper Union speech at Cooper Union. It’s long, but once he gets past the legal framework Lincoln used, it’s a moving experience.
https://youtu.be/oeT1L_hB5cs
Thank you so very much for your comments, Fran! I have an even greater appreciation for President Lincoln (if that was possible) after digesting this interpretation. We will rise again, as we have so often in our history under severe and heinous conditions.
It was what Lincoln did.
Personhood, I believe is measurable and can discriminate qualified individuals into levels. So, all men are not equal but can be improved with training, experience, calibration and review.
What the founders missed was that personhood does not depend on race, gender, wealth or family status, rather on the seven or so characteris like those described in https://philosophymt.com/what-are-the-characteristics-of-personhood
Unfortunately, a majority of Americans have not developed the foresight to even reach the Micawber Threshold so democracy is a poor choice of government. Representative democracy would work if we could trust political parties to select qualified candidates. But that has also failed.
Governments must put more focus on developing resilient personhood around the world rather than focus on some abstract human rights agenda.
It’s was striking and I’ve never forgotten it.