After reading this chilling timeline, I reiterate: strict liability in tort for any loss, damage, injury or death arising from the use of a firearm against the buyer, seller, manufacturer and user of the firearm. Add on mandatory insurance for each gun akin to automobile insurance and a license with an exam and picture ID for each lice…
After reading this chilling timeline, I reiterate: strict liability in tort for any loss, damage, injury or death arising from the use of a firearm against the buyer, seller, manufacturer and user of the firearm. Add on mandatory insurance for each gun akin to automobile insurance and a license with an exam and picture ID for each licensee and you will find a solution. Felony with 1 year of community service and fine of $10,000 for failure to acquire the insurance and acquire a license each as separate crimes. Maybe that would make a difference.
Excellent suggestions, although I would equally suggest a ban on the manufacture and sale of assault weapons to private citizens. No human being, except armed military personnel, needs to possess such a weapon of war! NO ONE!
Dick Until recently I only thought that a Stinger was an exotic cocktail. Too bad it wasn’t demonstrated at the NRA national convention. To quote The Mikado: “I have a little list. They never will be missed.”
See my answer above: you can own and operate a tank, fighter jet, Stingers, or cruise missiles if you want. You can't buy the warheads, because explosives are not protected by 2A. Hope you have a big enough garage!
Get out your checkbook. You can buy a tank in most states and drive it on your own property. It may not be street-legal, as the treads will crush most pavement, but you can have one if you want.
What you can't buy are warheads for the gun, because they are explosives, and explosives are not protected by the Second Amendment.
You can also buy an F-16 fighter jet and fly it as you wish. What you cannot buy are the warheads for the missile, because explosives are not protected by the Second Amendment.
Rifles, pistols, and their bullets are not explosives, so they are protected by the Second Amendment and you can buy and use them as state law dictates.
William, your comment shows how much caprice can be found in the law. Bullets that pierce children's heads and make them unrecognizable are legal, but not explosive ordnance; the use of dynamite requires a permit. What category do we use to classify this fractured (split) hair? In preparation for the D-Day attack on the coast of Normandy, France, in 1945, the Allies deployed a bunch of decoy tanks made of plywood to get the German's to believe the invasion would occur in the Dieppe area where the English Channel is narrowest, as had been unsuccessfully tried earlier in the war. To show how much they enjoyed the ruse, the German bombers dropped a wooden bomb on the fake tanks. This may not have been classified as an explosive unless the Germans wrote "Boom" on the wooden bomb (correctly spelled).
I am similarly in a quandary about abortion being legal, or not, depending upon what week in a pregnancy, theoretically, a fetus is considered (by some unregistered Jack with a nose and two eyes correctly spaced) a "human being." Using this sort of data crunching, getting the status of "human being" is entirely statistical, i.e., arbitrary, however that may, or may, not be the case for the fetus. Can I get capital punishment eliminated if I say it's a post-birth abortion?
In any case, the male participant in the fetus's recondition never gets a mention when culpability is assigned in an abortion case. But, that is TOTALLY arbitrary if you dig down the width of a standard split hair. I can trace the origins of any human back to the Big Bang of Space-race fame, which is to say at some knowable, but unknown moment well prior to the occasion of fertilization according to commonsense. Please tell me, how is it possible that a mere random person can grant him or herself the authority to decide when separate, or conjoined human tissue can be classified as "human." The pretension in this is clearly "towering", but it never Is mentioned in pro or anti abortion debates. So some Pithhorn or Molly Ann, wandering about in his or her size 10s is going to bestow humanness on something on some odd Tuesday at some finite GPS location not noted on the Dr.'s order. In principle, the offending stipulation that outlaws abortion is the matter of "choice", but choice in this case leads to the chicken-or-egg problem of picking the offender. And, be it noted that only choice is the salient moral issue here since, fecundation occurs in Nature, and causal "laws", so-called, get to decide what happens there. Where this is all going is this. If choice is the issue, and Nature carries on in its usual tiresome way, anything that gets in the way of male sperm and a female ovum, BY CHOICE, failing to meet prevents an actual possible human from coming into being so to speak. Obviously, the only moral option is to require free love to be practiced everywhere and at all times; having to go to work, or watch a football match is no excuse for failing to rise (excuse the pun) to the occasion. What is notable in this account is how making "human" attributable only to a fetus at some random point of development inside the female member of the pair, e.g., the fetus "looks" human, and no longer fish-like, the male participant in the copulation choice is TOTALLY left out of the equation, some kind of disposable not so innocent bystander. I hope everyone got down along the dots that join the abortion case with the first story about bullets and bombs. If the real reason driving the anti-abortion choice issue wasn't dividing some women against others for voting purposes, and involved the two-to-tango male as well, abortion would be rapidly recycled out of the news cycle. The real crime that deserves moral condemnation is being stupid on purpose.
You had me at "free love" for everyone :-) As for the rest, yes, whether abortions or bullets or bombs, most regulations are based on arbitrary and caprice. Why did someone decide ten bullets was acceptable in a gun magazine but eleven was evil and ban-worthy? They pulled a number of the air and declared it Just So.
Real men develop enough self-awareness to understand how childish and dangerous their fixation on guns is. They grow up, get over it, and decide they will never again vote for a Republican.
Love it. I also get long explanations about what an assault weapon is. Right now there is a thread on our local next door which started about having police officers in buildings. Wasn't there one in the high school in Florida. I haven't even read it because i am sure that there are people suggesting that teachers should be armed. Sigh. As a former educator who knows that you would have to have the gun locked up and even then we sometimes lost our keys. Students would have the gun in a nanosecond.
That “Good Guy With a Gun” bullshit is so blatantly stupid, IDK how anyone would even suggest it. The first fallacy is How the Fuck does a responding cop to an ACTIVE SHOOTER SCENE know a good guy from a bad guy? Any black guy would be a fool to be standing there with a gun. (Too many of them get shot without a gun) These Repugnant politicians just pull this shit out of their ass without any actual thot, but the ignorant cult base eat it up.
Overwhelmingly, the two responses I see in favor of having an AR-15 are (from the non-hunters who think all rifles are the same) that they hunt with them; our local hunters either bow hunt or use 30-30 or 3006 rifles. From the other folks (usually hunters) their reason is: they are fun to shoot.
I happen to agree that they are indeed "fun" to shoot. They are easy to keep on target, with the EO Tech or ACGO sights they are easy to shoot at distance even in subdued light, and they do not beat the crap out of your shoulder. It is possible for an average marksman like myself to qualify at 100 yards (not going to say easy here...). The AR-15 is a great tool on a dark night on a 3 acre property looking for an armed subject who just shot at a family member. To have one to shoot for "fun" doesn't cut it.
AND you know that because you were (are?) a law enforcement officer!! The hunters here use the same rifles you mentioned above or bow hunt. To my knowledge NOT with an AR-15! They also want to bring home the results after they hunt. I lived (married) with someone who looked forward all year to his vacation that he spent getting up in the dark & coming home after dark usually. He didnt always get a deer, but always had great stories to tell. Did I hunt - NO!
I AM a retired peace officer - and I still have my service REVOLVER. Never wanted a 9mm. Never needed an assault weapon. Never interested in killing anything (including hunting for game). Just interested in doing my job and protecting/supervising those for whom I had responsibility. Never needed to draw my weapon (and I am thankful for that). And I worked in high populated areas in California. I look at all these yahoos who love to parade around armed to the teeth - for what? They are not law enforcement peace officers. They are insecure little people who want to feel powerful. At the expense of sanity and humanity in our country.
Let me add a point that I neglected to include - SWAT teams are equipped with assault weapons (and a lot more) because their job (and training) is to deal with issues like those that happened in Uvalde. I have the utmost respect for anyone assigned to those specialized teams. I was armed for the job I was assigned. It appears the small Uvalde P.D. force was not prepared for the task at hand. Why the locals did not transfer the command to the larger department (Sheriff - Border Patrol - ?) as soon as those forces arrived makes me wonder why (unless it was some kind of "power pissing match"). Why it took over an hour to find someone with a key to that classroom ??? I still have a lot of questions and have no confidence we will ever get the full and truthful story from the politicians who don't want to address the real problem - people with freedom and access to weapons that belong only to the military and specialized law enforcement authorities.
That is not how feral pigs are hunted normally. Dogs are used to catch them and the hunters normally castrate them and release, if they do kill them they use a small caliber pistol. Hunters don’t run through the woods chasing dogs with rifles it’s to cumbersome.
Bert Helpful advice! There certainly were some feral pigs attending NRA convention. Castration might also reduce the abortion rate. Two nuts in one squeeze, so to speak.
Michele I apologize for my ‘religiouso’ responses to nutty matters. In the Congo, during the ‘troubles,’ I had a Belgian mercenary chaplain with a .45 ride shot gun for me, as I was driving two Congolese rebels that I had captured to a rudimentary field hospital.
Much much later I replaced a nun coordinating a short story program in the Somerset Country Jail. It felt like old Congo days with murderers, drug merchants, and a Dominican entering Federal protection program.
All this religious stuff offset a personal negative impression when two of my ministers ran off with the choir mistress (not the same one)At my most recent church, the minister was about 75 as well as the choir director. The only downside was when an ambulance had to come during the service to remove one of the parishioners (after the collection plate had been passed).
So you can see why I am ‘a bit nutty.’ Pax Nobiscum.
Michele Sorry to mess up your Saturday morning coffee. Have you tried nutmeg, while playing The Nutcracker Suite? No apologies for what I wrote on a balky Amtrak train as we returned from Washington and the college graduation of of a grandchild. Three more soon in the offing. Perhaps you might try tea?
I had two people tell me that people used assault weapons, that they were used for hunting wild boar in Texas according to these two. One of them carefully explained to me that he and his family could kill them without shredding them apart and said they filled their freezer with wild boar meat. I do not hunt nor have I ever had hunters in the family, so I know very little about hunting at all. I am glad to know the alternative story about hunting feral pigs. And if I ever see that excuse again, I will have an account to use.
Yesterday, I heard an interview with author and veteran Phil Clay. He has a new book of essays out Uncertain Ground. He talked about one of his essays, which details the history of the military assault weapons. He was speaking in response to the availability of these weapons to average citizens and their use in mass shootings. He explained that the bullets from guns used in World War 2 entered the body slowly. Soldiers were killed, yes, but medics could also work to save some of the wounded. With assault rifles, bullets enter the body at high velocity and are intended to shred organs, flesh. How anyone can argue with a straight face that these weapons are great for hunting game is beyond my ability to reason. Why do you think authorities in Uvalde had to collect DNA samples from the parents of the school children? Every politician who argued for the protection of assault rifles should be called into our classrooms, churches, movie theaters, supermarkets, concert halls or night clubs after one of these shootings and forced to collect the evidence for identification. I live right down the street from the Laguna Woods church where there was a mass shooting less than two weeks ago. I knew the aunt of a 22-year-old victim of the Mandalay Bay massacre in Las Vegas. I drove 45 miles to attend her memorial. There were more than 1,000 people present. It was heartbreaking to watch her father fall to pieces in front of that crowd. Where are our leaders? What is our true definition of sanctity of life?
Beats me about the hunting....only reporting what these two said when I spoke against against assault weapons. At least they didn't mansplain about different weapons and what they do and what we should call them. I was talking with my LMT yesterday about weapons and bullets. He talked about what the bullets do. He did hunt at one time and I learned a lot about how to do it right. He is also a veteran who spent time on an aircraft carrier. Now he fishes and we are going to enjoy the halibut bounty tomorrow for dinner. People who are only interesting in power and money don't give a damn about anyone's lives, only their own. If we didn't have the filibuster, we could get something done maybe.
I grew up with a father who never used anything more powerful than a 22 rifle--without a scope--to hunt for the meat we ate. He never owned a shotgun, always said it wasn't fair to the quail. And I had plenty of quail when I was a kid. Hunting wild boar with assault weapons--actually, hunting animals like wild boar at all--sounds like sport hunting to me. It's not something I know about or want to know about. I can't avoid thinking about "Lord of the Flies." Starting with the cowboys, turned into heroes as they savaged an entire culture, are we now playing out the wet dream of a bunch of boys out slaughtering a sow and, in their blood lust, a child? I don't think there really are any words that describe the world in which this history and undercurrent of violent death has bubbled to the surface and roams like some pitted and misshapen monster through the hallways of our schools and our lives. When we begin to settle for the murder of children, we are lost.
Irene Back long ago—even before I was born—in hunting and gathering societies they used nets, at times stampeded a herd over a cliff, or, about 3000 BCE crafted a spear with a crude stone head.
In the battle of Crecy (1346) Welsh long bows decimated the French horsed knights and again at Agincourt (1415)—-Henry 5th–we few, a band of brothers.
Michelle I’m surprised that these ‘hunters’ didn’t mount a machine gun on their vehicle. This way they don’t have to bother with training, though it’s difficult to put a bayonet on a machine gun.
In the first instance, the guy was someone I respected for his other comments on the Maddow blog. He did explain to me how he and his family were crack shots and ate the meat. It was interesting, because he was also well-off. The second instance is someone I know who is a R pastor in the small rural community where I taught. He spent loads of time at the school and had way too much influence with kids. I didn't think he belonged there, frankly. I just had an ex-colleague whose son is now very religious (and on the school board) just tell me that she thought the pastor had an undue influence on her son.
<sigh> I guess "normally" depends on where you live. My dad used to talk about trapping feral pigs (boars) in pits and then shooting them the same way you'd slaughter livestock. He did not think much of hunters who used dogs for anything but retrieving fowl. And when my grandparents bought a farm around which the rest of the family clustered, they raised pigs in a pen under the largest madrone tree on the farm. Thank goodness no more boar meat.
That is correct, Rowshan. And outrageous that possession is so easy. I’m posting one thing today aside from guns. I’m suspecting coverup about a detail that’s frequently stated in the timeline of the massacre, but as a school administrator responsible for decades for safety drills and constant repitition and vigilance of practice to ensure safety…..
WHO propped open the door and how did shooter know to access school through the back? Also, in my experience, no classroom door locks from inside. So if he got into classroom, a locked door had been left open to hallway and he walked in. By closing it, it would be locked. It keeps being reported that “he” locked it. So, who left it open? Teachers are constantly instructed to close their doors and keep them closed. Someone from outside must use key to get in.
And, police keep saying door was locked. So what? One doesn’t have to wait for a principal or custodian to bring keys. Ram the door open or shoot the lock. It is very unnerving to realize the senseless mistakes and protocols not followed that allow murder of children.
Rowshan, to second your remark expressing legal opposition to the unregulated public availability and use of "assault rifles", as that term is understood by competent military weapons authorities, let me add that such weapons, and all other military arms in military units off the battlefield, are strictly controlled and secured except when authorized explicitly by the designated unit commander or his or her representative.
While military personnel are not explicitly under orders that require them to be armed, all arms are secured in a properly constructed armory, typically equipped with a steel door and several high grade locks, and metal bars on any window. All arms maintained at the unit level are regularly accounted for, with strict corresponding documentation, and are at all times under the supervision of designated persons during regular working hours. Outside of working hours, a Charge of Quarters, stationed so as to have the armory in view, is responsible for carrying out orders affecting armory access and security. Even under battlefield conditions, arms are used under strict orders of an officer or non-commissioned officer with the designated leadership authority. As this account shows, military arms understood to be for use under clear military conditions, are not used for ordinary civilian hunting purposes and are not carried or transported without command authority by individuals acting without orders. In military use, arms are professional tools and are never carried or used under unsupervised conditions. Except for trained snipers, military arms are used by groups of soldiers under supervision so that the direction of fire is controlled by the person with command responsibility.
Given all that has been said above, in what reasonable circumstance would a properly described "well ordered" civilian militia stipulated by the Second Amendment of the Constitution, as a unit, or as individuals, be permitted to carry and use arms under conditions less rigorously controlled and supervised than is explicitly specified for a trained professional force operating under proper command authority? Since assault rifles, style AK 15, are designed to spray bullets, rapidly and in great numbers, the courts do not accept their use for "self-defense" since they lack the kind of accuracy a self-defense claim would reasonably require. Their inaccuracy makes them also inappropriate for normal hunting use.
I believe the present polarization of this present period signaled by the rapid decline of the exiting Boomer Regan-Republican elites practicing a suicidal politics of deliberate governance failure for unnamed short term economic interests held hostage to the national economy and markets, like the Koch Enterprises dependent upon fossil fuels and local electrical power generation, will pass into much deserved political irrelevance under the pressure of new cohorts of USAmericans who will pressure the federal government to reanimate the cooperative model of the war period when the "community of nations" was forced into existence by the menace of a Germany wishing to make growing globalization a work in progress for the German 1000 year Reich. When the present forces of radical anti-social ideologies are abandoned by self-serving elites who see observing principle as a transactional opportunity, the USAmerican love affair with guns can return to its earlier role in the romance of USAmerican Exceptionalism.
" Arredondo decided that the gunman had barricaded himself in the classroom and was no longer an active shooter, and thus there were no children at risk."
This is a blatant, bald faced lie being handed out and anyone who believes it has never heard or shot a high powered rifle.
The cops outside that door? They could hear the kids crying AND they could hear each shot.
THAT is the truth.
A .223 rifle cartridge is a small, concentrated explosion the exits the barrel of a gun and makes about a 160 dB sound. Hearing one shot without hearing protection will harm your hearing.
A .223 shot can be heard for miles if it is shot outside. Shooting inside a classroom would deafen anyone who heard ONE shot.
The cops were standing outside listening to both kids crying AND the shooting and they were doing NOTHING.
So, since Republicans rely on a "good guy with a gun" narrative for safety,
I say we first file a lawsuit against EACH AND EVERY COP who stood in that hallway peeing on himself and listening to kids cry and be shot in the face.
Because, ALL of the cops in the hallway could hear every shot and it is a lie that they thought the shooting was over because, if they really thought that, they would have gone in.
As a former Texan (Thank God!) I have to laugh at your comment. The Texas Uber-Macho man is something to behold. And here are 19 of them with their pants around their knees. But — we must remember that they were “under orders” not to go in —
I totally agree Mike, but I am also concerned about the police response becoming a distraction from the fact that a teenager, and teenagers in general, was in possession of such a weapon, was angry/depressed, and planned and executed this massacre. We can criticize the police but the main issue must not get lost or watered down. The shooter is hours ahead of anyone else, with a plan, and who knows what weapons. We want NO massacre, not just LESS of one.
One action does not obviate the other. We must move forward on every front, get as much action going as possible. The more this is discussed, the longer it stays news, the more effect we we will have. That is the strategy that has worked so well for the openly fascist conservatives.
He was only angry because he had been made to look the fool. That allowed him to sound more sincere and horrified. He’s horrifying. We’ll all forget about his laws that allow vigilantes to take down doctors or others aiding women seeking abortions.
I sure get bogged down in the police (non)response, but maybe that is because of my training and experience. It is, however, not seeing the forest but for the trees. With no weaponry like that available to any and all who seem to want one is a huge step in the prevention direction.
You are right for the response not to become a distraction we must remember police presence at hardened schools is the backbone of the Radicals plan to protect children in school. This school fell within that criteria and the plan failed.
I am pretty sure none of the cops peeing on themselves in the hallway are aware of this court ruling.
I am more sure that the cops were just wetting their pants in fear for their own lives and figured that the shooter would run out of bodies and ammunition eventually.
I'm pretty sure that most command staff in this country are aware of it. That decision came down in 2005 while I was deep in training and policy development for our use of force curriculum, and it was never addressed in any of the policies we wrote. We did have a section on "cowardice" in the General Orders to which this case law could have been an affirmative defense.
Sometime, Ally, tell us of the story of how you ended up in LE (see, I used the term correctly!) Seriously--it HAD to have been difficult for you along the way. Back in the day, no college was required and my brother went in for a good paying job that also offered some respect in the community (hah! then he was outside the DNC convention in 68 with people throwing bags of body fluids and solids at him! Rude awakening!)
The Supreme Court is hurting this nation with the addition of trumps nominees. They are poised to loosen instead of tighten gun laws from what I have read. It is pitiful.
One hates to "upvote" this. But thanks for posting just one more reason SCOTUS is harming this nation. We pay law enforcement to "serve and protect," but SCOTUS has ruled they don't have to protect.
Kathy, the good thing about this community is I learn something amazing every day.
That is also the bad thing about this communit.
Now? I know that cops can target shoot unarmed black people for fun and sit in the hall playing cards while a madman wipes out two classrooms of little kids.
I imagine, however, that their might be a few parents out there with a plan of their own now.
Back in 2005, SCOTUS ruled about the "Constitutional requirement" for police officers to protect people. There is none. The opinion was written by Justice Antonin Scalia (who I sincerely hope is now spending eternity burning in torment and hellfire).
Further, the "qualified immunity" of police while performing their work ensures that very little will be done to hold the officers who didn't enter the school in a timely way to save frightened children from death responsible for those deaths. "As the Supreme Court held in Harlow v. Fitzgerald (1982), “government officials performing discretionary functions, generally are shielded from liability for civil damages insofar as their conduct does not violate clearly established statutory or constitutional rights of which a reasonable person would have known"."
Mike, your reference to the tired quip about "a good guy with a gun" made me think of my most recent version of that criminally stupid idea: "The solution to stopping a BAD Guy with a gun, with a plan, with high motivation (perhaps drug-assisted), ready to die, but, above all, with the element of surprise TOTALLY on his/her side, is a GOOD GUY with a gun, very dark glasses, a white hat, an NRA badge, a "good guy" tattoo, a Texas-wide made-for-television smile, and a brain module qualified as "a few bricks short of a full load". Anyone so botched as to think the USAmerican assault weapon problem is assault weapon availability is lacking in a developed capability for self-delusion and bull-shitter charm, and, not least, without a sense of humor. As the English say, "A nudge is as good as a wink to a man who is blind as a bat." I didn't say a thing. I got the joke. I was taking a minute of silence and slipped into a preseason coma.
And, of course, Bone Spur Trump would have bravely led the police assault to rescue these endangered kids. All these whimpering police who waited over an hour before the Tactical Unit arrived should be summarily fired for dereliction of duty with absolutely no benefits. Then I doubt that any would dare remain in this devastated community.
I have greater sympathy for the Secret Service ordered to guard Bone Spur. I can empathize with those guardians who were summarily recalled from a South American country for whoring while protecting Jabba the Hutt. I imagine that they were only following their peerless ‘grab them by the pussy’ leader into one of his horny haunts.
Death star is a coward as we all know...just full of tough guy BS. As for the others, i don't know what will happen with them. There may well be an exodus of certain individuals. It could get nasty.
good link Lisa. Thank you. I just got back in here. Drugs and isolation may play a role, but, I think we are missing something, but, I don't know what it is.
All great suggestions and it could make a difference but unfortunately it will never happen. And, it still remains, that no matter how they might be "registered" or sold, assault weapons have no purpose in a supposedly civilized society (which we most definitely are not!)
Maybe it can happen, per Professor HCR’s last quotation. Anyone in NYC’s newly-drawn Congressional District 10 (map finalized a week ago) want to help me get on the ballot to run for Congress? Loooong shot (pun not funny with dead kids so it isn’t one) because I am a social democrat not a machine product, but grassroots efforts can sometimes work. Sensible regulations on firearms supported vigorously. We need brawlers in there now-no time for rhetoric. www.laurathomas.nyc
Fellow HCR readers/followers, can you sign, do you have a friend or a friend’s friend in Manhattan below 14th Street, Brooklyn neighborhoods from Dumbo/Park Slope/Boerum Hill/Carroll Gardens/Sunset Park/Borough Hall/Red Hook/More? NEED 1500 signatures in 2 weeks; would be grassroots miracle. Self financing right now for xeroxes and using free tool RepMyBlock.org to get petitions/walk sheets to canvass with volunteers.
You're welcome, Laura. Hope it gets some traction for you. I personally have zero ties to NY. AOC was the first person that came to mind that possibly could help!
Thank you Mike S! Meeting lots of like-minded people - now the question is can we convert similar thoughts/words into PETITION SIGNATURES that could get us a shot at having one of us on the ballot in NY CD 10? In less than TWO WEEKS?!? Gotta run; making copies of flyers and more petition sheets as soon as the local shop opens, then headed to a parade with some helpers circulating petition in NY. Any of our Professor HCR Letters to an American ragtag irregulars have friends in Brooklyn or lower Manhattan? PLEASE steer them to www.LauraThomas.nyc to help me get a shot on the ballot (and I don’t mean musket).
Laura, yours is the only way forward. Throw the Republicans out. But until that happens, we don't have a prayer of legislating effective gun control. Oh, I almost forgot, the current slate of originalists among the Supremes will have to go as well. Waiting for Godot!
Good luck! I'll look at your vita and platforms. I'd be happy to send a check.
❤️ please consider asking friends to ask friends-who lives in lower Manhattan and parts of Brooklyn? Will you check out www.LauraThomas.nyc ? Maybe we could pull off a surprising true grassroots spot on the ballot!
Thank you Lou Ann! With 1500 good signatures from registered Dems in NY CD 10, could just maybe make it on the ballot! (They’ll challenge every signature of course, with unlimited funds to buy lawyers to keep me off the ballot)- your friends could sign up using the RepMyBlock.org team and download a petition, even a walk sheet if they had time. www.LauraThomas.nyc
Thank you! We HCR Ragged Irregulars have to make our connections across CDs. Got any friends in the 10th who might consider helping us get on the ballot? www.LauraThomas.nyc —anyone can sign up for our team and download a petition, every signature from registered Ds in CD 10 makes a difference?
Sorry Laura - have friends in Cal. Mass & Pa but no one near you.I hope others here are better equipped with people in district & can do what surely is a good thing to do. I do send my very best wishes & good luck because we sure do need more of "us" in office.
I know four people in NYC. Not sure what district. I will send them this information. Even if they don't live in your district they probably know people who do.
Thank you so much! Using RepMyBlock.org, those friends can join the team, download a petition, sign, and even download a petition if so moved to collect a few more. 1500 in a few weeks with no machine is a huge reach, so every signature deeply critical and appreciated.
That we are ok with demoralizing loved ones further by requiring DNA testing to identify the victims proves your point, Janet, as to whether we are a civilized society.
As it will me...I had a conversation on Facebook with an ex-student who proclaimed he was a strong supporter of the 2nd amendment. So I mentioned that DNA testing and inserted a few four letter words, one quoting another ex-student. He did agree with me about assault weapons and yes, he has small children. If he has guns, I hope they are locked up.
And possibly to spare the parents’ from needing to see the child in that condition. A parent can recognize their child by a shoe, or a curl of hair, or a little hand, so the horror, here, is beyond my ability to process.
So did I. It would be horrible to have to look at many little maimed bodies to id the one that was yours. Using DNA to id first was a good idea to spare the parents that additional angst. That is often done when bodies ares found after other kinds of tragedies. Sometimes we are too quick to read the most negative motivations we can think of into every detail, and getting way off track where the really critical concerns are.
My thought is that we need another Emmet Till moment. It’s a lot ask of a parent, probably too much, but an open casket with pictures might be what we need to bring home the horror of what we are doing to our children.
These weapons of war were designed with one purpose and one purpose only--to destroy as many of the enemy as possible in the shortest amount of time. That's why the bullets tear bodies apart. They have no place on any streets.
I think you are right; they just missed getting it right that time. Think if they had gotten to certain places just a little bit earlier...... And if the suppression of the vote continues (and if dismantling of the _real_ security for the accuracy of votes and counting of votes continues) the insurrection may not be violent, alas..... Just recall that there was an attempt in the 30s to recruit a top general to lead an attack on DC and take FDR (! yes !) prisoner (and more).
Mike, do you have friends downstate in the new Congressional 10th (lower Manhattan, Brooklyn including Park Slope, Red Hook, Sunset Park, Dumbo, Boerum Hill, Carroll Gardens& more)? I’m trying to get on the ballot for the August 23 special primary. Need 1500 grassroots signatures in 2 weeks. Long shot for sure but ready to fight if can just get on that ballot.
It's the fear of the Second Coming. Need to be heavily armed when the English come back to retake the country. All those heavily armed (20 million AK-15S) lined up along the Texas Oklahoma boarder. The Alamo all over again, but against the really threat. Shesh.
I agree with all of your suggestions. It is disgustingly obvious that Republican lawmakers are in the pockets of the NRA and are not in favor of ANY measure to make gun ownership safer. As a former substitute teacher, I can tell you that the day I would be required to take a firearm into a classroom is the day I would quit teaching. When( not if) a teacher shoots a student or vice versa, our schools will become more of the wild west scenario that Republicans seem to favor. We have pleaded for years for common sense changes and nothing so far has made an iota of difference. I am so glad that I do not have a school age child and my heart breaks for all parents that do.
And the substantial amount of money spent on arming and training the teachers would be better spent on support services like counselors who could assist children with bullying and family issues that can motivate shooters.
I have no idea what I'm talking about, but wonder if we can't get guns off the streets, can we curtail the ammunition manufacture and/or sales. So we aren't going after your guns, just your ammo.
Yep. Remember the once powerful tobacco industry lobby? "My own view is that in many ways, the tobacco industry invented the kind of special-interest lobbying that has become so characteristic of the late 20th- and earlier 21st-century American politics," said Allan Brandt, dean of Harvard's Graduate School of Arts and Sciences.
California has tried to limit ammunition sales. A court (I don’t know which one—district court or 9th circuit) found it unconstitutional—didn’t agree that ammunition is not protected by the 2nd amendment!
Also, ban the sale of military style assault weapons and attendant protective military garb to the civilian population. And since there are 20 million of them already out there. Institute a buy back program as New Zealand did after Christchurch.
Before we start arming teachers as a solution to school gun violence, let's please give that more careful thought -
Really, arming teachers? That is the next Republican good idea talking point along with fewer doors???
Perhaps we ought to check with teachers to see how they feel about that insane idea? Oh sure, I am certain we can find a few that would support that approach. However, the vast majority of teachers are strongly opposed to that idea for a very, very long list of very good reasons. Too long a list in fact to recount all of them here.
However, let's stop for a moment and give a thought to how we have been treating teachers lately, We underpay them dramatically, and this is particularly true here in Texas. The average salary for a teacher nationwide in the U.S. is $58,593. Here in Texas, the average salary for a teacher is $54,121. (https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/teacher-pay-by-state).
We have asked them during the pandemic to teach remotely or subjected them to personal health challenges by teaching in-school classes without regard for public health guidelines.
We have criticized them unfairly for teaching children about important topics such as gender, race, diversity, inclusion, and reproductive health that some felt should not be discussed in schools. We have called them pedophiles and groomers. They have been yelled and shouted at, and subjected to all manner of verbal abuse and harassment. But now some think it is a good idea to arm them with pistols and charge them with protecting students from deranged shooters armed with military-grade weapons?
We are already facing a serious shortage of teachers here in Texas as many are leaving the profession and fewer are selecting it as a chosen profession. What do you think the impact on the teaching profession would be of adding this new task of being an armed defender against school shooters to their job description might be?
This is madness. We have to stop allowing Republicans to continue offering us only the mythology that the only solution involves more guns. All of the more gun solutions are designed only to please the gun industry's desire to find yet more customers and sell more guns to those who are already their customers. Stop the madness!
It is as if God said to Noah, "No, no the solution is not an ark. What we need is more rain."
What is needed is to make it harder for dangerous people to get their hands on very dangerous weapons. We should also give some serious thought to what constitutes a weapon that is too dangerous to be owned by civilians. Or at least a minimum set of requirements to own such weapons, including registration of the weapon, and age, training, demonstrated mental and emotional stability, and safe storage requirements. Passing and enforcing federal Red flag laws should also be considered. Inconsistencies from state to state only provide loopholes allowing the most dangerous individuals to avoid necessary sanctions.
Let's try to think of solutions that will actually keep our children and all of us safer. A child's life is too high a price to pay for anyone's second amendment rights.
With a SCROTUS Stench Court that only recognizes the last 14 words of the 2nd Amendment and not all of it, there's not a chance. However, there is syntax to determine the intent of the 2nd Amendment was to apply "people" globally as "we the people" and not as individuals "persons" a la the 4th Amendment "...persons to be secure in their homes"
I am all for codifying the NRA's range safety rules and matching them to the requirements for vehicular use and regulation. (Two modern contrivances unknown by the founders that require regulation in their use).
My beef, my exasperation... Since Columbine in 1999, 90% of all mass shooters were on the red-alert radar screen of family members, friends, school officials, teachers and law enforcement... and right there... RIGHT THERE... lies the best point of prevention... and, so far, this is our biggest failure. We know who they are, well before they open fire. First move: federal Red Flag law. NOW!
We have just had (at least) two red flag incidents here in VT since Uvalde. My question is, with the patchwork of laws form state to state, what is to stop the teenager who just got his AK-15 taken away from getting in his car and driving to some other state to get another one? Your point FEDERAL law is spot on.
This makes total sense, which of course ensures that it will gain no traction in your broken country. Further to your points, off the top of my head and in no particular order, here is a list of “must-do’s” that will never be done in order to begin to repair the disarray that is 2022 America:
Any solution has to start with “putting a man on the moon” money, energy, and brains towards the mental health of the young. As in FREE counseling, more training, more hiring of people in that line of work.
Today’s spree of young male shooters is sadly only the obverse of the stunning rise in young suicides, particularly girls.
Boys lash out. Girls destroy themselves.
Until financial inequality becomes vastly improved, family pressures will remain intense. Thus there will be more children growing up to be potential mass killers and suicides.
Social media must be regulated into virtual oblivion. The American obsession with *unfettered* free speech has to wither.
Obscene amounts of money in politics must be slashed.
Trump et al must be indicted, prosecuted and jailed. His movement must come to be seen as irrelevant and pathetically ignorant.
Then Alice’s suggestions proposing *extremely* strict gun ownership laws would have a decent chance of being put into place.
What are the chances of any of this happening? From my vantage point, slim to nil. There is enough motivation now to begin to put pressure on politicians and lobbyists who buy them to enact some picayune bipartisan bill to assuage their consciences and lull Americans back into their cocoon. And, in the meantime, the fury of the mass of citizens will be expended and wasted on the officers who failed those children. In some short period of time the next massacre will happen. And we will start all over again.
America is a car that has plunged off a cliff. It spends its time trying to catch it and lift it back up to safety, before it hits the ground and explodes. Meantime nobody with the power is looking seriously at the roads leading to this cliff.
The real and most lasting solution is to vote the Republicans out of office and vote democrats and independents in. They are are the only public servants that want and will rid ourselves of this scourge.
"Until financial inequality becomes vastly improved, family pressures will remain intense. Thus there will be more children growing up to be potential mass killers and suicides."
There you have it everyone. Root cause: Income inequality.
No. It’s the least worst system, manifesting itself in the worst way.
There’s a difference.
Structural rot. Too much money too poorly used. Incredible zealotry about the Constitution. Two party system of unnecessary complexity with no obvious benefit deriving from those complexities. The lasting mythology of the white-hatted cowboy. Everything pushed to the extreme and thus cracked - the K-12 education system being just one example. Slavish materialism fostering an U.S. against them mentality.
The “least worst system” does not have to be executed so disastrously. Look at other democracies.
And those democracies face extremely serious problems - mental health especially in the young and climate change, to mention just two. They don’t do so great attacking those. Sadly, America is saddled with those as well.
And yet, America has done so much so well for so long. That maligned education system is the best in the world at the top. America has had periods of enormous generosity to others less fortunate. It has been a bulwark of freedom. Americans themselves, when not engaged in politics or religion, are the friendliest most open people I have met in my life.
But America is the FUBAR, non-pareil, in 2022 amongst democracies. As I mentioned above, there is needed a myriad of solutions. I don’t see how these will happen without a defining crisis - and neither 9/11 nor 1/6 have penetrated.
Yes, being liable for what happens would certainly help and guns should at least have the same hoops as cars and driving. But the gun types have fixed it, so no liability and not even a permit to carry.
After reading this chilling timeline, I reiterate: strict liability in tort for any loss, damage, injury or death arising from the use of a firearm against the buyer, seller, manufacturer and user of the firearm. Add on mandatory insurance for each gun akin to automobile insurance and a license with an exam and picture ID for each licensee and you will find a solution. Felony with 1 year of community service and fine of $10,000 for failure to acquire the insurance and acquire a license each as separate crimes. Maybe that would make a difference.
Excellent suggestions, although I would equally suggest a ban on the manufacture and sale of assault weapons to private citizens. No human being, except armed military personnel, needs to possess such a weapon of war! NO ONE!
Grenades, missiles and tanks are not for sale, WHY are these military rifles able to be purchased?
Cynically I am waiting for a case to go before SCOTUS for that very thing. I want a tank. Constitution says nothing about not owning one.
I've always wanted a tank myself.
I thought I'd ask SCOTUS for a howitzer. Or maybe a flame thrower. You know, for knocking back the weeds in the back yard.............
........ and tent caterpillar nests.
Ooohhh - sweet. The flame thrower.
Perfectly reasonable - effective and efficient! How could they refuse?!?
Me too. Do they come with grenade launchers?
And while we're asking, how about one of those snazzy shoulder rocket launchers?
Parking is a bitch!
Too funny. If the SUVs get any larger, they might qualify! ;-)
Even better would be a Stinger, there is nothing in the Constitution that says I can’t own one, hell why not have a garage full of them?
Dick Until recently I only thought that a Stinger was an exotic cocktail. Too bad it wasn’t demonstrated at the NRA national convention. To quote The Mikado: “I have a little list. They never will be missed.”
See my answer above: you can own and operate a tank, fighter jet, Stingers, or cruise missiles if you want. You can't buy the warheads, because explosives are not protected by 2A. Hope you have a big enough garage!
Get out your checkbook. You can buy a tank in most states and drive it on your own property. It may not be street-legal, as the treads will crush most pavement, but you can have one if you want.
What you can't buy are warheads for the gun, because they are explosives, and explosives are not protected by the Second Amendment.
You can also buy an F-16 fighter jet and fly it as you wish. What you cannot buy are the warheads for the missile, because explosives are not protected by the Second Amendment.
Rifles, pistols, and their bullets are not explosives, so they are protected by the Second Amendment and you can buy and use them as state law dictates.
William, your comment shows how much caprice can be found in the law. Bullets that pierce children's heads and make them unrecognizable are legal, but not explosive ordnance; the use of dynamite requires a permit. What category do we use to classify this fractured (split) hair? In preparation for the D-Day attack on the coast of Normandy, France, in 1945, the Allies deployed a bunch of decoy tanks made of plywood to get the German's to believe the invasion would occur in the Dieppe area where the English Channel is narrowest, as had been unsuccessfully tried earlier in the war. To show how much they enjoyed the ruse, the German bombers dropped a wooden bomb on the fake tanks. This may not have been classified as an explosive unless the Germans wrote "Boom" on the wooden bomb (correctly spelled).
I am similarly in a quandary about abortion being legal, or not, depending upon what week in a pregnancy, theoretically, a fetus is considered (by some unregistered Jack with a nose and two eyes correctly spaced) a "human being." Using this sort of data crunching, getting the status of "human being" is entirely statistical, i.e., arbitrary, however that may, or may, not be the case for the fetus. Can I get capital punishment eliminated if I say it's a post-birth abortion?
In any case, the male participant in the fetus's recondition never gets a mention when culpability is assigned in an abortion case. But, that is TOTALLY arbitrary if you dig down the width of a standard split hair. I can trace the origins of any human back to the Big Bang of Space-race fame, which is to say at some knowable, but unknown moment well prior to the occasion of fertilization according to commonsense. Please tell me, how is it possible that a mere random person can grant him or herself the authority to decide when separate, or conjoined human tissue can be classified as "human." The pretension in this is clearly "towering", but it never Is mentioned in pro or anti abortion debates. So some Pithhorn or Molly Ann, wandering about in his or her size 10s is going to bestow humanness on something on some odd Tuesday at some finite GPS location not noted on the Dr.'s order. In principle, the offending stipulation that outlaws abortion is the matter of "choice", but choice in this case leads to the chicken-or-egg problem of picking the offender. And, be it noted that only choice is the salient moral issue here since, fecundation occurs in Nature, and causal "laws", so-called, get to decide what happens there. Where this is all going is this. If choice is the issue, and Nature carries on in its usual tiresome way, anything that gets in the way of male sperm and a female ovum, BY CHOICE, failing to meet prevents an actual possible human from coming into being so to speak. Obviously, the only moral option is to require free love to be practiced everywhere and at all times; having to go to work, or watch a football match is no excuse for failing to rise (excuse the pun) to the occasion. What is notable in this account is how making "human" attributable only to a fetus at some random point of development inside the female member of the pair, e.g., the fetus "looks" human, and no longer fish-like, the male participant in the copulation choice is TOTALLY left out of the equation, some kind of disposable not so innocent bystander. I hope everyone got down along the dots that join the abortion case with the first story about bullets and bombs. If the real reason driving the anti-abortion choice issue wasn't dividing some women against others for voting purposes, and involved the two-to-tango male as well, abortion would be rapidly recycled out of the news cycle. The real crime that deserves moral condemnation is being stupid on purpose.
You had me at "free love" for everyone :-) As for the rest, yes, whether abortions or bullets or bombs, most regulations are based on arbitrary and caprice. Why did someone decide ten bullets was acceptable in a gun magazine but eleven was evil and ban-worthy? They pulled a number of the air and declared it Just So.
Great question...
Money!
Exactly
I agree. I have seen arguments that people use them for shooting wild boar in Texas. What did they do before the advent of assault weapons.
Real men bow hunt wild boar.
Real men develop enough self-awareness to understand how childish and dangerous their fixation on guns is. They grow up, get over it, and decide they will never again vote for a Republican.
I might add that mass killings really are a man (or man-boy) problem.
How often do we hear of women or girls randomly slaughtering folks with assault weapons or engaging in any sort of violent crime, for that matter?
heart
Love it. I also get long explanations about what an assault weapon is. Right now there is a thread on our local next door which started about having police officers in buildings. Wasn't there one in the high school in Florida. I haven't even read it because i am sure that there are people suggesting that teachers should be armed. Sigh. As a former educator who knows that you would have to have the gun locked up and even then we sometimes lost our keys. Students would have the gun in a nanosecond.
That “Good Guy With a Gun” bullshit is so blatantly stupid, IDK how anyone would even suggest it. The first fallacy is How the Fuck does a responding cop to an ACTIVE SHOOTER SCENE know a good guy from a bad guy? Any black guy would be a fool to be standing there with a gun. (Too many of them get shot without a gun) These Repugnant politicians just pull this shit out of their ass without any actual thot, but the ignorant cult base eat it up.
I'd really like to hear Joe Biden say this.
Former HS teacher here, too. I would quit in a heartbeat. Or I would never have gone into teaching at all.
I was surprised at how many people approve of teachers having concealed weapons. Not me!
“And fifty-four percent of voters approve of arming teachers with concealed weapons, while only 34% oppose it, a net approval of +20.”
Real boars use Stingers to hunt MAGA men.
LOL. I have long had a fantasy of reverse hunting. Wolves in helicopters hunting men. Elephants in jeeps doing in the safari with high powered rifles.
Michele Crocodile Dundee did a number on the croc hunters. Now are MAGAS TURNING ON JABBA THER HUTT? Tuff to find bone inside the flab.
Yes! My hubby has gone hunting (in Texas) with his archery club to hunt wild boar on numerous occasions!
Or crawl through the brush with a pistol to meet them head on
Overwhelmingly, the two responses I see in favor of having an AR-15 are (from the non-hunters who think all rifles are the same) that they hunt with them; our local hunters either bow hunt or use 30-30 or 3006 rifles. From the other folks (usually hunters) their reason is: they are fun to shoot.
I happen to agree that they are indeed "fun" to shoot. They are easy to keep on target, with the EO Tech or ACGO sights they are easy to shoot at distance even in subdued light, and they do not beat the crap out of your shoulder. It is possible for an average marksman like myself to qualify at 100 yards (not going to say easy here...). The AR-15 is a great tool on a dark night on a 3 acre property looking for an armed subject who just shot at a family member. To have one to shoot for "fun" doesn't cut it.
AND you know that because you were (are?) a law enforcement officer!! The hunters here use the same rifles you mentioned above or bow hunt. To my knowledge NOT with an AR-15! They also want to bring home the results after they hunt. I lived (married) with someone who looked forward all year to his vacation that he spent getting up in the dark & coming home after dark usually. He didnt always get a deer, but always had great stories to tell. Did I hunt - NO!
I AM a retired peace officer - and I still have my service REVOLVER. Never wanted a 9mm. Never needed an assault weapon. Never interested in killing anything (including hunting for game). Just interested in doing my job and protecting/supervising those for whom I had responsibility. Never needed to draw my weapon (and I am thankful for that). And I worked in high populated areas in California. I look at all these yahoos who love to parade around armed to the teeth - for what? They are not law enforcement peace officers. They are insecure little people who want to feel powerful. At the expense of sanity and humanity in our country.
Let me add a point that I neglected to include - SWAT teams are equipped with assault weapons (and a lot more) because their job (and training) is to deal with issues like those that happened in Uvalde. I have the utmost respect for anyone assigned to those specialized teams. I was armed for the job I was assigned. It appears the small Uvalde P.D. force was not prepared for the task at hand. Why the locals did not transfer the command to the larger department (Sheriff - Border Patrol - ?) as soon as those forces arrived makes me wonder why (unless it was some kind of "power pissing match"). Why it took over an hour to find someone with a key to that classroom ??? I still have a lot of questions and have no confidence we will ever get the full and truthful story from the politicians who don't want to address the real problem - people with freedom and access to weapons that belong only to the military and specialized law enforcement authorities.
That is not how feral pigs are hunted normally. Dogs are used to catch them and the hunters normally castrate them and release, if they do kill them they use a small caliber pistol. Hunters don’t run through the woods chasing dogs with rifles it’s to cumbersome.
Bert Helpful advice! There certainly were some feral pigs attending NRA convention. Castration might also reduce the abortion rate. Two nuts in one squeeze, so to speak.
What a great idea.
LOL. I am having a late cup of coffee with my Saturday cinnamon roll. Fortunately, I wasn't drinking the coffee when I read this.
Michele I apologize for my ‘religiouso’ responses to nutty matters. In the Congo, during the ‘troubles,’ I had a Belgian mercenary chaplain with a .45 ride shot gun for me, as I was driving two Congolese rebels that I had captured to a rudimentary field hospital.
Much much later I replaced a nun coordinating a short story program in the Somerset Country Jail. It felt like old Congo days with murderers, drug merchants, and a Dominican entering Federal protection program.
All this religious stuff offset a personal negative impression when two of my ministers ran off with the choir mistress (not the same one)At my most recent church, the minister was about 75 as well as the choir director. The only downside was when an ambulance had to come during the service to remove one of the parishioners (after the collection plate had been passed).
So you can see why I am ‘a bit nutty.’ Pax Nobiscum.
Michele Sorry to mess up your Saturday morning coffee. Have you tried nutmeg, while playing The Nutcracker Suite? No apologies for what I wrote on a balky Amtrak train as we returned from Washington and the college graduation of of a grandchild. Three more soon in the offing. Perhaps you might try tea?
I had two people tell me that people used assault weapons, that they were used for hunting wild boar in Texas according to these two. One of them carefully explained to me that he and his family could kill them without shredding them apart and said they filled their freezer with wild boar meat. I do not hunt nor have I ever had hunters in the family, so I know very little about hunting at all. I am glad to know the alternative story about hunting feral pigs. And if I ever see that excuse again, I will have an account to use.
Yesterday, I heard an interview with author and veteran Phil Clay. He has a new book of essays out Uncertain Ground. He talked about one of his essays, which details the history of the military assault weapons. He was speaking in response to the availability of these weapons to average citizens and their use in mass shootings. He explained that the bullets from guns used in World War 2 entered the body slowly. Soldiers were killed, yes, but medics could also work to save some of the wounded. With assault rifles, bullets enter the body at high velocity and are intended to shred organs, flesh. How anyone can argue with a straight face that these weapons are great for hunting game is beyond my ability to reason. Why do you think authorities in Uvalde had to collect DNA samples from the parents of the school children? Every politician who argued for the protection of assault rifles should be called into our classrooms, churches, movie theaters, supermarkets, concert halls or night clubs after one of these shootings and forced to collect the evidence for identification. I live right down the street from the Laguna Woods church where there was a mass shooting less than two weeks ago. I knew the aunt of a 22-year-old victim of the Mandalay Bay massacre in Las Vegas. I drove 45 miles to attend her memorial. There were more than 1,000 people present. It was heartbreaking to watch her father fall to pieces in front of that crowd. Where are our leaders? What is our true definition of sanctity of life?
Beats me about the hunting....only reporting what these two said when I spoke against against assault weapons. At least they didn't mansplain about different weapons and what they do and what we should call them. I was talking with my LMT yesterday about weapons and bullets. He talked about what the bullets do. He did hunt at one time and I learned a lot about how to do it right. He is also a veteran who spent time on an aircraft carrier. Now he fishes and we are going to enjoy the halibut bounty tomorrow for dinner. People who are only interesting in power and money don't give a damn about anyone's lives, only their own. If we didn't have the filibuster, we could get something done maybe.
I grew up with a father who never used anything more powerful than a 22 rifle--without a scope--to hunt for the meat we ate. He never owned a shotgun, always said it wasn't fair to the quail. And I had plenty of quail when I was a kid. Hunting wild boar with assault weapons--actually, hunting animals like wild boar at all--sounds like sport hunting to me. It's not something I know about or want to know about. I can't avoid thinking about "Lord of the Flies." Starting with the cowboys, turned into heroes as they savaged an entire culture, are we now playing out the wet dream of a bunch of boys out slaughtering a sow and, in their blood lust, a child? I don't think there really are any words that describe the world in which this history and undercurrent of violent death has bubbled to the surface and roams like some pitted and misshapen monster through the hallways of our schools and our lives. When we begin to settle for the murder of children, we are lost.
What did hunters do before the availability of military weapons?or in the “dark” ages?
Irene Back long ago—even before I was born—in hunting and gathering societies they used nets, at times stampeded a herd over a cliff, or, about 3000 BCE crafted a spear with a crude stone head.
In the battle of Crecy (1346) Welsh long bows decimated the French horsed knights and again at Agincourt (1415)—-Henry 5th–we few, a band of brothers.
Michelle I’m surprised that these ‘hunters’ didn’t mount a machine gun on their vehicle. This way they don’t have to bother with training, though it’s difficult to put a bayonet on a machine gun.
In the first instance, the guy was someone I respected for his other comments on the Maddow blog. He did explain to me how he and his family were crack shots and ate the meat. It was interesting, because he was also well-off. The second instance is someone I know who is a R pastor in the small rural community where I taught. He spent loads of time at the school and had way too much influence with kids. I didn't think he belonged there, frankly. I just had an ex-colleague whose son is now very religious (and on the school board) just tell me that she thought the pastor had an undue influence on her son.
<sigh> I guess "normally" depends on where you live. My dad used to talk about trapping feral pigs (boars) in pits and then shooting them the same way you'd slaughter livestock. He did not think much of hunters who used dogs for anything but retrieving fowl. And when my grandparents bought a farm around which the rest of the family clustered, they raised pigs in a pen under the largest madrone tree on the farm. Thank goodness no more boar meat.
Stay in a perpetual state of Boardom?
LOL.
In novels set pre-gun, they use spears.
That is correct, Rowshan. And outrageous that possession is so easy. I’m posting one thing today aside from guns. I’m suspecting coverup about a detail that’s frequently stated in the timeline of the massacre, but as a school administrator responsible for decades for safety drills and constant repitition and vigilance of practice to ensure safety…..
WHO propped open the door and how did shooter know to access school through the back? Also, in my experience, no classroom door locks from inside. So if he got into classroom, a locked door had been left open to hallway and he walked in. By closing it, it would be locked. It keeps being reported that “he” locked it. So, who left it open? Teachers are constantly instructed to close their doors and keep them closed. Someone from outside must use key to get in.
And, police keep saying door was locked. So what? One doesn’t have to wait for a principal or custodian to bring keys. Ram the door open or shoot the lock. It is very unnerving to realize the senseless mistakes and protocols not followed that allow murder of children.
Rowshan, to second your remark expressing legal opposition to the unregulated public availability and use of "assault rifles", as that term is understood by competent military weapons authorities, let me add that such weapons, and all other military arms in military units off the battlefield, are strictly controlled and secured except when authorized explicitly by the designated unit commander or his or her representative.
While military personnel are not explicitly under orders that require them to be armed, all arms are secured in a properly constructed armory, typically equipped with a steel door and several high grade locks, and metal bars on any window. All arms maintained at the unit level are regularly accounted for, with strict corresponding documentation, and are at all times under the supervision of designated persons during regular working hours. Outside of working hours, a Charge of Quarters, stationed so as to have the armory in view, is responsible for carrying out orders affecting armory access and security. Even under battlefield conditions, arms are used under strict orders of an officer or non-commissioned officer with the designated leadership authority. As this account shows, military arms understood to be for use under clear military conditions, are not used for ordinary civilian hunting purposes and are not carried or transported without command authority by individuals acting without orders. In military use, arms are professional tools and are never carried or used under unsupervised conditions. Except for trained snipers, military arms are used by groups of soldiers under supervision so that the direction of fire is controlled by the person with command responsibility.
Given all that has been said above, in what reasonable circumstance would a properly described "well ordered" civilian militia stipulated by the Second Amendment of the Constitution, as a unit, or as individuals, be permitted to carry and use arms under conditions less rigorously controlled and supervised than is explicitly specified for a trained professional force operating under proper command authority? Since assault rifles, style AK 15, are designed to spray bullets, rapidly and in great numbers, the courts do not accept their use for "self-defense" since they lack the kind of accuracy a self-defense claim would reasonably require. Their inaccuracy makes them also inappropriate for normal hunting use.
I believe the present polarization of this present period signaled by the rapid decline of the exiting Boomer Regan-Republican elites practicing a suicidal politics of deliberate governance failure for unnamed short term economic interests held hostage to the national economy and markets, like the Koch Enterprises dependent upon fossil fuels and local electrical power generation, will pass into much deserved political irrelevance under the pressure of new cohorts of USAmericans who will pressure the federal government to reanimate the cooperative model of the war period when the "community of nations" was forced into existence by the menace of a Germany wishing to make growing globalization a work in progress for the German 1000 year Reich. When the present forces of radical anti-social ideologies are abandoned by self-serving elites who see observing principle as a transactional opportunity, the USAmerican love affair with guns can return to its earlier role in the romance of USAmerican Exceptionalism.
Absolutely.
Have you ever seen anyone try to get a tank over a chainlink fence and into a school. Come on, let’s get real.
Alice,
" Arredondo decided that the gunman had barricaded himself in the classroom and was no longer an active shooter, and thus there were no children at risk."
This is a blatant, bald faced lie being handed out and anyone who believes it has never heard or shot a high powered rifle.
The cops outside that door? They could hear the kids crying AND they could hear each shot.
THAT is the truth.
A .223 rifle cartridge is a small, concentrated explosion the exits the barrel of a gun and makes about a 160 dB sound. Hearing one shot without hearing protection will harm your hearing.
A .223 shot can be heard for miles if it is shot outside. Shooting inside a classroom would deafen anyone who heard ONE shot.
The cops were standing outside listening to both kids crying AND the shooting and they were doing NOTHING.
So, since Republicans rely on a "good guy with a gun" narrative for safety,
I say we first file a lawsuit against EACH AND EVERY COP who stood in that hallway peeing on himself and listening to kids cry and be shot in the face.
Because, ALL of the cops in the hallway could hear every shot and it is a lie that they thought the shooting was over because, if they really thought that, they would have gone in.
One grocery store security guard from Buffalo NY seems to have more courage then 20 Texas cops.
As a former Texan (Thank God!) I have to laugh at your comment. The Texas Uber-Macho man is something to behold. And here are 19 of them with their pants around their knees. But — we must remember that they were “under orders” not to go in —
Patricia,
Hiding behind the skirts of an "order" makes a coward.
There is, of course, the occasional ironic statement. 😝
❤️❤️
Yes.
I totally agree Mike, but I am also concerned about the police response becoming a distraction from the fact that a teenager, and teenagers in general, was in possession of such a weapon, was angry/depressed, and planned and executed this massacre. We can criticize the police but the main issue must not get lost or watered down. The shooter is hours ahead of anyone else, with a plan, and who knows what weapons. We want NO massacre, not just LESS of one.
One action does not obviate the other. We must move forward on every front, get as much action going as possible. The more this is discussed, the longer it stays news, the more effect we we will have. That is the strategy that has worked so well for the openly fascist conservatives.
Kim,
I get it. The main issue is that a kid could buy a weapon of war and then turn his war against little kids, and, his own grandmother.
I agree.
🙏 I was just so mad at Greg Abbott in his righteous anger against the police when ultimately this is on him and his cronies.
He was only angry because he had been made to look the fool. That allowed him to sound more sincere and horrified. He’s horrifying. We’ll all forget about his laws that allow vigilantes to take down doctors or others aiding women seeking abortions.
Greg Abbott doesn't have a 'righteous' bone in his cowardly body.
I sure get bogged down in the police (non)response, but maybe that is because of my training and experience. It is, however, not seeing the forest but for the trees. With no weaponry like that available to any and all who seem to want one is a huge step in the prevention direction.
You are right for the response not to become a distraction we must remember police presence at hardened schools is the backbone of the Radicals plan to protect children in school. This school fell within that criteria and the plan failed.
Yes, but, notice that nobody on the right has shifted their stance.
They know that their followers will stay their course.
I didn't buy the barricade scenario either....cripes, they could hear the gunshots. Cowards, all of them.
The Supreme Court ruled in 2005 that Police Officers do not have a Constitutional duty to protect someone.
https://twitter.com/Laureninlex/status/1530410654481399809?s=20
KellyR, thanks!
I am pretty sure none of the cops peeing on themselves in the hallway are aware of this court ruling.
I am more sure that the cops were just wetting their pants in fear for their own lives and figured that the shooter would run out of bodies and ammunition eventually.
I'm pretty sure that most command staff in this country are aware of it. That decision came down in 2005 while I was deep in training and policy development for our use of force curriculum, and it was never addressed in any of the policies we wrote. We did have a section on "cowardice" in the General Orders to which this case law could have been an affirmative defense.
Sometime, Ally, tell us of the story of how you ended up in LE (see, I used the term correctly!) Seriously--it HAD to have been difficult for you along the way. Back in the day, no college was required and my brother went in for a good paying job that also offered some respect in the community (hah! then he was outside the DNC convention in 68 with people throwing bags of body fluids and solids at him! Rude awakening!)
Rude indeed.
Ally, thanks. I feel worse this evening than I did this morning.
The Supreme Court is hurting this nation with the addition of trumps nominees. They are poised to loosen instead of tighten gun laws from what I have read. It is pitiful.
One hates to "upvote" this. But thanks for posting just one more reason SCOTUS is harming this nation. We pay law enforcement to "serve and protect," but SCOTUS has ruled they don't have to protect.
👌🏼
I was unaware that it is supported law to be a coward while kids die on the other side of wood door.
Thank you for this, Kelly.
So Law Enforcement has no Constitutional duty to protect someone with a court-ordered protective order.
Many abusers, of humans and animals, own assault weapons.
Many Law Enforcement officers are killed responding to Domestic Violence calls.
So it appears the abuser with the AR15 has the advantage.
On a + note, public outcry helped pull a semiautomatic rifle from our local Little League Auction this week.
Kathy, the good thing about this community is I learn something amazing every day.
That is also the bad thing about this communit.
Now? I know that cops can target shoot unarmed black people for fun and sit in the hall playing cards while a madman wipes out two classrooms of little kids.
I imagine, however, that their might be a few parents out there with a plan of their own now.
Amazing. I had missed this.
That’s irrational.
Well, good to know that all cops can shoot at are unarmed black men driving cars with a blinker light out.
I agree with mike. They heard children being killed and did nothing. They deserve no respect and should never again wear a police badge. Shame.
Citizens' arrest!!!
The students who called 911 multiple times came closest to “citizens arrest.” Powerless against any gun, but a military weapon?
And I call bullshit that LE were not aware of those 911 calls of students inside the classroom.
How bout just lock them unarmed in a room with a madman.
Don’t you think that the children who were calling 911 were also calling their parents who were right outside?
Probably.
No: too frightened shooter would find them.
But they were calling. 911 as well.
Back in 2005, SCOTUS ruled about the "Constitutional requirement" for police officers to protect people. There is none. The opinion was written by Justice Antonin Scalia (who I sincerely hope is now spending eternity burning in torment and hellfire).
Further, the "qualified immunity" of police while performing their work ensures that very little will be done to hold the officers who didn't enter the school in a timely way to save frightened children from death responsible for those deaths. "As the Supreme Court held in Harlow v. Fitzgerald (1982), “government officials performing discretionary functions, generally are shielded from liability for civil damages insofar as their conduct does not violate clearly established statutory or constitutional rights of which a reasonable person would have known"."
https://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/28/politics/justices-rule-police-do-not-have-a-constitutional-duty-to-protect.html
https://www.vox.com/2020/6/3/21277104/end-qualified-immunity-police-definition-george-floyd
RE: Scalia et alia — yep, past time to re-write Dante’s Inferno!
mlbrowne. Thank you. My eyes are open now.
Cops are only required to shoot at unarmed black men. I get it.
Agree with you totally.
👌🏼
Mike, your reference to the tired quip about "a good guy with a gun" made me think of my most recent version of that criminally stupid idea: "The solution to stopping a BAD Guy with a gun, with a plan, with high motivation (perhaps drug-assisted), ready to die, but, above all, with the element of surprise TOTALLY on his/her side, is a GOOD GUY with a gun, very dark glasses, a white hat, an NRA badge, a "good guy" tattoo, a Texas-wide made-for-television smile, and a brain module qualified as "a few bricks short of a full load". Anyone so botched as to think the USAmerican assault weapon problem is assault weapon availability is lacking in a developed capability for self-delusion and bull-shitter charm, and, not least, without a sense of humor. As the English say, "A nudge is as good as a wink to a man who is blind as a bat." I didn't say a thing. I got the joke. I was taking a minute of silence and slipped into a preseason coma.
And, of course, Bone Spur Trump would have bravely led the police assault to rescue these endangered kids. All these whimpering police who waited over an hour before the Tactical Unit arrived should be summarily fired for dereliction of duty with absolutely no benefits. Then I doubt that any would dare remain in this devastated community.
Always brave when the audience is unarmed. Except for his Secret Service entourage.
I have greater sympathy for the Secret Service ordered to guard Bone Spur. I can empathize with those guardians who were summarily recalled from a South American country for whoring while protecting Jabba the Hutt. I imagine that they were only following their peerless ‘grab them by the pussy’ leader into one of his horny haunts.
Keith,
The cops should have haned their weapons to the parents and stood aside.
Death star is a coward as we all know...just full of tough guy BS. As for the others, i don't know what will happen with them. There may well be an exodus of certain individuals. It could get nasty.
good link Lisa. Thank you. I just got back in here. Drugs and isolation may play a role, but, I think we are missing something, but, I don't know what it is.
All great suggestions and it could make a difference but unfortunately it will never happen. And, it still remains, that no matter how they might be "registered" or sold, assault weapons have no purpose in a supposedly civilized society (which we most definitely are not!)
Maybe it can happen, per Professor HCR’s last quotation. Anyone in NYC’s newly-drawn Congressional District 10 (map finalized a week ago) want to help me get on the ballot to run for Congress? Loooong shot (pun not funny with dead kids so it isn’t one) because I am a social democrat not a machine product, but grassroots efforts can sometimes work. Sensible regulations on firearms supported vigorously. We need brawlers in there now-no time for rhetoric. www.laurathomas.nyc
Fellow HCR readers/followers, can you sign, do you have a friend or a friend’s friend in Manhattan below 14th Street, Brooklyn neighborhoods from Dumbo/Park Slope/Boerum Hill/Carroll Gardens/Sunset Park/Borough Hall/Red Hook/More? NEED 1500 signatures in 2 weeks; would be grassroots miracle. Self financing right now for xeroxes and using free tool RepMyBlock.org to get petitions/walk sheets to canvass with volunteers.
Special Primary election August 23 if can get on ballot.
Laura, I sent your website to a Park Sloper. Thank you.
Appreciate the help!
Just tweeted your request copying AOC! Hope this helps!
Thank you Lynell!! We Prof HCR Irregulars need to get ourselves on ballots!
You're welcome, Laura. Hope it gets some traction for you. I personally have zero ties to NY. AOC was the first person that came to mind that possibly could help!
I sent your website to my one close contact in lower Manhattan.
She will send it to her friends.
Thank you Mike S! Meeting lots of like-minded people - now the question is can we convert similar thoughts/words into PETITION SIGNATURES that could get us a shot at having one of us on the ballot in NY CD 10? In less than TWO WEEKS?!? Gotta run; making copies of flyers and more petition sheets as soon as the local shop opens, then headed to a parade with some helpers circulating petition in NY. Any of our Professor HCR Letters to an American ragtag irregulars have friends in Brooklyn or lower Manhattan? PLEASE steer them to www.LauraThomas.nyc to help me get a shot on the ballot (and I don’t mean musket).
Laura, yours is the only way forward. Throw the Republicans out. But until that happens, we don't have a prayer of legislating effective gun control. Oh, I almost forgot, the current slate of originalists among the Supremes will have to go as well. Waiting for Godot!
Good luck! I'll look at your vita and platforms. I'd be happy to send a check.
Go Laura!!
❤️ please consider asking friends to ask friends-who lives in lower Manhattan and parts of Brooklyn? Will you check out www.LauraThomas.nyc ? Maybe we could pull off a surprising true grassroots spot on the ballot!
Am sending it on to people I know there.
I am from Brooklyn, SunsetPark. But, just moved to FL. via MA.
I will try to forward this to old friends. 😗
Thank you Lou Ann! With 1500 good signatures from registered Dems in NY CD 10, could just maybe make it on the ballot! (They’ll challenge every signature of course, with unlimited funds to buy lawyers to keep me off the ballot)- your friends could sign up using the RepMyBlock.org team and download a petition, even a walk sheet if they had time. www.LauraThomas.nyc
Good luck Laura - from district 22!
Thank you! We HCR Ragged Irregulars have to make our connections across CDs. Got any friends in the 10th who might consider helping us get on the ballot? www.LauraThomas.nyc —anyone can sign up for our team and download a petition, every signature from registered Ds in CD 10 makes a difference?
Sorry Laura - have friends in Cal. Mass & Pa but no one near you.I hope others here are better equipped with people in district & can do what surely is a good thing to do. I do send my very best wishes & good luck because we sure do need more of "us" in office.
I know four people in NYC. Not sure what district. I will send them this information. Even if they don't live in your district they probably know people who do.
Thank you so much! Using RepMyBlock.org, those friends can join the team, download a petition, sign, and even download a petition if so moved to collect a few more. 1500 in a few weeks with no machine is a huge reach, so every signature deeply critical and appreciated.
Thank you Lisa, just did that & appreciate the suggestion. This grassroots cooperation with each other is the only way out.
Didn't think to, but will now!
That we are ok with demoralizing loved ones further by requiring DNA testing to identify the victims proves your point, Janet, as to whether we are a civilized society.
Lynell, when that was announced, it truly ripped my heart in two. I can't phantom what the parents are going through.
They needed the DNA tests because the kids' bodies were damaged beyond recognition.
Yes, I know, Talia; it's an image that I cannot get out of my head but one that will haunt me all the way to November.
As it will me...I had a conversation on Facebook with an ex-student who proclaimed he was a strong supporter of the 2nd amendment. So I mentioned that DNA testing and inserted a few four letter words, one quoting another ex-student. He did agree with me about assault weapons and yes, he has small children. If he has guns, I hope they are locked up.
That is exactly what haunts me - those babies - because that is what they are.
Never forget
😥😢
Which is why assault weapons need to be banned. Weapons of war. Not hunting or self defense
And possibly to spare the parents’ from needing to see the child in that condition. A parent can recognize their child by a shoe, or a curl of hair, or a little hand, so the horror, here, is beyond my ability to process.
I thought about that, too, Melissa.
So did I. It would be horrible to have to look at many little maimed bodies to id the one that was yours. Using DNA to id first was a good idea to spare the parents that additional angst. That is often done when bodies ares found after other kinds of tragedies. Sometimes we are too quick to read the most negative motivations we can think of into every detail, and getting way off track where the really critical concerns are.
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💔
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yes, the shooter was shooting them in the face and the back of the head, like he shot his grandmother.
Someone on another thread advocated for publishing crime scene photos of these children so that EVERYONE understands how horrid the reality is..
My thought is that we need another Emmet Till moment. It’s a lot ask of a parent, probably too much, but an open casket with pictures might be what we need to bring home the horror of what we are doing to our children.
I agree with this 100%, Betsy. If these young children are "eligible" to die, those they leave behind should be able to see what happened to them.
Just to clarify, I didn't necessarily mean their families, but those responsible for their murders.
Wow, didn't see that tidbit of information on the news...
These weapons of war were designed with one purpose and one purpose only--to destroy as many of the enemy as possible in the shortest amount of time. That's why the bullets tear bodies apart. They have no place on any streets.
I absolutely agree with you, Janet. Sadly, the veneer of civilization is VERY thin.
Why sell semi-automatics to the general public in the first place? What's the point?
The Republican Party, and supporters, are gearing up to take over the government through violent insurrection. Jan 06 was just a taste.
I think you are right; they just missed getting it right that time. Think if they had gotten to certain places just a little bit earlier...... And if the suppression of the vote continues (and if dismantling of the _real_ security for the accuracy of votes and counting of votes continues) the insurrection may not be violent, alas..... Just recall that there was an attempt in the 30s to recruit a top general to lead an attack on DC and take FDR (! yes !) prisoner (and more).
Mike, do you have friends downstate in the new Congressional 10th (lower Manhattan, Brooklyn including Park Slope, Red Hook, Sunset Park, Dumbo, Boerum Hill, Carroll Gardens& more)? I’m trying to get on the ballot for the August 23 special primary. Need 1500 grassroots signatures in 2 weeks. Long shot for sure but ready to fight if can just get on that ballot.
www.laurathomas.nyc
I have friends in Livngston County and Monroe County. But, I do know one person in lower manhattan. I will forward your website to her.
It's the fear of the Second Coming. Need to be heavily armed when the English come back to retake the country. All those heavily armed (20 million AK-15S) lined up along the Texas Oklahoma boarder. The Alamo all over again, but against the really threat. Shesh.
To fill the pockets of the gun manufacturers, gun lobby, NRA, GOP. power and money.
Killing people. That is what "personal defense" really is about. Killing someone else.
Money
Murder.
Profit.
I agree with all of your suggestions. It is disgustingly obvious that Republican lawmakers are in the pockets of the NRA and are not in favor of ANY measure to make gun ownership safer. As a former substitute teacher, I can tell you that the day I would be required to take a firearm into a classroom is the day I would quit teaching. When( not if) a teacher shoots a student or vice versa, our schools will become more of the wild west scenario that Republicans seem to favor. We have pleaded for years for common sense changes and nothing so far has made an iota of difference. I am so glad that I do not have a school age child and my heart breaks for all parents that do.
And the substantial amount of money spent on arming and training the teachers would be better spent on support services like counselors who could assist children with bullying and family issues that can motivate shooters.
I have no idea what I'm talking about, but wonder if we can't get guns off the streets, can we curtail the ammunition manufacture and/or sales. So we aren't going after your guns, just your ammo.
Lynell,
The Republicans reap so much money from gun and ammunition manufacturers that it will be hard to make any law that restricts ammunition or gun sales.
Money. The Republicans get loads of it from ammunition and gun manufacturers, both as campaign donations and direct payments that are not traceable.
Yep. Remember the once powerful tobacco industry lobby? "My own view is that in many ways, the tobacco industry invented the kind of special-interest lobbying that has become so characteristic of the late 20th- and earlier 21st-century American politics," said Allan Brandt, dean of Harvard's Graduate School of Arts and Sciences.
https://edition.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/06/19/tobacco.decline/
I saw an article (cant remember where) that these firearms mfgs were able to acquire PPP loans - millions in some cases!
Maggie,
Of course they could. The Fed also bought their corporate bonds.
Welfare, in this country, is mostly for corporations.
Yeah Mike - I really wasnt all that stunned & surprised - would have been more so if they were turned down - but of course this is Amurika ! Right?
Hey, Maggie. No surprise, but still infuriating!
California has tried to limit ammunition sales. A court (I don’t know which one—district court or 9th circuit) found it unconstitutional—didn’t agree that ammunition is not protected by the 2nd amendment!
Bummer; but thanks, Barbara. We can still keep pushing til something positive happens.
Also, ban the sale of military style assault weapons and attendant protective military garb to the civilian population. And since there are 20 million of them already out there. Institute a buy back program as New Zealand did after Christchurch.
And each gun or ammunition purchaser has to sit through a 30minute video on gun violence, Then wait two months before they can purchase.
Although that might just be a motivator for the already contaminated brain.....
Was that the requirement in the rural town of Texas though?
Before we start arming teachers as a solution to school gun violence, let's please give that more careful thought -
Really, arming teachers? That is the next Republican good idea talking point along with fewer doors???
Perhaps we ought to check with teachers to see how they feel about that insane idea? Oh sure, I am certain we can find a few that would support that approach. However, the vast majority of teachers are strongly opposed to that idea for a very, very long list of very good reasons. Too long a list in fact to recount all of them here.
However, let's stop for a moment and give a thought to how we have been treating teachers lately, We underpay them dramatically, and this is particularly true here in Texas. The average salary for a teacher nationwide in the U.S. is $58,593. Here in Texas, the average salary for a teacher is $54,121. (https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/teacher-pay-by-state).
According to the Texas Tribune a minimum "living wage" in Texas would be $60,989. - the equivalent of $14.66/hour for a full-time hourly employee (https://www.texastribune.org/2018/12/20/most-states-raise-their-minimum-wages-texas-refuses-budge/#:~:text=To%20make%20a%20living%20wage,transportation%20and%20other%20basic%20necessities.) That places Texas well below the nationwide average and substantially below a Texas "living wage", and that is the average salary, not the starting salary. We also find teachers frequently having to pay for various classroom supplies for their students out of their own pockets.
We have asked them during the pandemic to teach remotely or subjected them to personal health challenges by teaching in-school classes without regard for public health guidelines.
We have criticized them unfairly for teaching children about important topics such as gender, race, diversity, inclusion, and reproductive health that some felt should not be discussed in schools. We have called them pedophiles and groomers. They have been yelled and shouted at, and subjected to all manner of verbal abuse and harassment. But now some think it is a good idea to arm them with pistols and charge them with protecting students from deranged shooters armed with military-grade weapons?
We are already facing a serious shortage of teachers here in Texas as many are leaving the profession and fewer are selecting it as a chosen profession. What do you think the impact on the teaching profession would be of adding this new task of being an armed defender against school shooters to their job description might be?
This is madness. We have to stop allowing Republicans to continue offering us only the mythology that the only solution involves more guns. All of the more gun solutions are designed only to please the gun industry's desire to find yet more customers and sell more guns to those who are already their customers. Stop the madness!
It is as if God said to Noah, "No, no the solution is not an ark. What we need is more rain."
What is needed is to make it harder for dangerous people to get their hands on very dangerous weapons. We should also give some serious thought to what constitutes a weapon that is too dangerous to be owned by civilians. Or at least a minimum set of requirements to own such weapons, including registration of the weapon, and age, training, demonstrated mental and emotional stability, and safe storage requirements. Passing and enforcing federal Red flag laws should also be considered. Inconsistencies from state to state only provide loopholes allowing the most dangerous individuals to avoid necessary sanctions.
Let's try to think of solutions that will actually keep our children and all of us safer. A child's life is too high a price to pay for anyone's second amendment rights.
Bruce, agree, arming teachers won't work.
AGREE totally with you. Well said. Thank you.
With a SCROTUS Stench Court that only recognizes the last 14 words of the 2nd Amendment and not all of it, there's not a chance. However, there is syntax to determine the intent of the 2nd Amendment was to apply "people" globally as "we the people" and not as individuals "persons" a la the 4th Amendment "...persons to be secure in their homes"
I am all for codifying the NRA's range safety rules and matching them to the requirements for vehicular use and regulation. (Two modern contrivances unknown by the founders that require regulation in their use).
Like your new acronym, Ally!
My beef, my exasperation... Since Columbine in 1999, 90% of all mass shooters were on the red-alert radar screen of family members, friends, school officials, teachers and law enforcement... and right there... RIGHT THERE... lies the best point of prevention... and, so far, this is our biggest failure. We know who they are, well before they open fire. First move: federal Red Flag law. NOW!
We have just had (at least) two red flag incidents here in VT since Uvalde. My question is, with the patchwork of laws form state to state, what is to stop the teenager who just got his AK-15 taken away from getting in his car and driving to some other state to get another one? Your point FEDERAL law is spot on.
Exactly so!
We also need a plan for collecting the...millions...weapons out there.
I’m sure the Prime Minister of New Zealand, Jacinda Ardern, would be willing to share her experience on how to get that done.
I already posted that I'd like to see a billionaire buy them and destroy them.
This makes total sense, which of course ensures that it will gain no traction in your broken country. Further to your points, off the top of my head and in no particular order, here is a list of “must-do’s” that will never be done in order to begin to repair the disarray that is 2022 America:
Any solution has to start with “putting a man on the moon” money, energy, and brains towards the mental health of the young. As in FREE counseling, more training, more hiring of people in that line of work.
Today’s spree of young male shooters is sadly only the obverse of the stunning rise in young suicides, particularly girls.
Boys lash out. Girls destroy themselves.
Until financial inequality becomes vastly improved, family pressures will remain intense. Thus there will be more children growing up to be potential mass killers and suicides.
Social media must be regulated into virtual oblivion. The American obsession with *unfettered* free speech has to wither.
Obscene amounts of money in politics must be slashed.
Trump et al must be indicted, prosecuted and jailed. His movement must come to be seen as irrelevant and pathetically ignorant.
Then Alice’s suggestions proposing *extremely* strict gun ownership laws would have a decent chance of being put into place.
What are the chances of any of this happening? From my vantage point, slim to nil. There is enough motivation now to begin to put pressure on politicians and lobbyists who buy them to enact some picayune bipartisan bill to assuage their consciences and lull Americans back into their cocoon. And, in the meantime, the fury of the mass of citizens will be expended and wasted on the officers who failed those children. In some short period of time the next massacre will happen. And we will start all over again.
America is a car that has plunged off a cliff. It spends its time trying to catch it and lift it back up to safety, before it hits the ground and explodes. Meantime nobody with the power is looking seriously at the roads leading to this cliff.
The real and most lasting solution is to vote the Republicans out of office and vote democrats and independents in. They are are the only public servants that want and will rid ourselves of this scourge.
"Until financial inequality becomes vastly improved, family pressures will remain intense. Thus there will be more children growing up to be potential mass killers and suicides."
There you have it everyone. Root cause: Income inequality.
Yep, ours is least worst system
No. It’s the least worst system, manifesting itself in the worst way.
There’s a difference.
Structural rot. Too much money too poorly used. Incredible zealotry about the Constitution. Two party system of unnecessary complexity with no obvious benefit deriving from those complexities. The lasting mythology of the white-hatted cowboy. Everything pushed to the extreme and thus cracked - the K-12 education system being just one example. Slavish materialism fostering an U.S. against them mentality.
The “least worst system” does not have to be executed so disastrously. Look at other democracies.
And those democracies face extremely serious problems - mental health especially in the young and climate change, to mention just two. They don’t do so great attacking those. Sadly, America is saddled with those as well.
And yet, America has done so much so well for so long. That maligned education system is the best in the world at the top. America has had periods of enormous generosity to others less fortunate. It has been a bulwark of freedom. Americans themselves, when not engaged in politics or religion, are the friendliest most open people I have met in my life.
But America is the FUBAR, non-pareil, in 2022 amongst democracies. As I mentioned above, there is needed a myriad of solutions. I don’t see how these will happen without a defining crisis - and neither 9/11 nor 1/6 have penetrated.
" It’s the least worst system, manifesting itself in the worst way."
This is a brilliantly written sentence. I have save it for another day.
Try getting it passed! And we will! But most likely we'll have to vote current pro-gun Senators out before we make any real progress. 😡
Common sense laws....this does not hinder a constitutional right, since a large % of people agree. And yes, to ban assault weapons.
My husband and I have said this for years. Well summarized Alice.
Yes, being liable for what happens would certainly help and guns should at least have the same hoops as cars and driving. But the gun types have fixed it, so no liability and not even a permit to carry.