Tonight, in Fulton County, Georgia, a judge allowed 9 Georgia voters and their experts to inspect copies of the 147,000 mail-in ballots cast in that county to make sure that officials did not accept counterfeit ballots.
There is so much fear in this country right now. The previous administration ruled with fear. It continues to instill fear with lies. As a mental health professional, I can tell you fear is underneath powerlessness, and it is the basis of trauma. Those believing the lie live in anger which masks their fear and those that understand the truth of this situation live with a fear of losing our democracy. We live in the land of the free…yet we are not free because we live in fear.
Fear is the absence of hope. Hope comes from effective leaders and the strength in numbers of mass protests by like minded people.
This is something that has to happen in broad daylight, not on the screen of your smartphone. Images of a jam packed places like the Mall in Washington DC is where people find hope.
The left needs fewer hand wringers living in fear and more folks with signs in their hands standing shoulder to shoulder in solidarity with a million others.
I predict women will take the lead to get it started.
I fully agree with the point you make Kim. The fear comes from a combination of the pattern of self-isolation that Americans have slowly imposed on themselves in the last six decades. People feel alone. True community, with its ups and downs, has been discounted by many. The siren song of rugged individualism has been too seductive. Paradoxically and ironically that sense of isolation has been buoyed by “social” media where the communities are tangled, self-isolating, impersonal and, in the end ephemeral.
That fear has been strengthened too by the loss of hegemony American whites have begun to sense, ever-strengthening this century. Americans do not feel hegemonic in the world any longer. They don’t feel secure in their jobs. They certainly don’t feel secure in their whiteness. The book Deaths of Despair acutely points this general angst out. The opioid epidemic is more symbolic than anything else of how far and hard Americans sense they have fallen. And so they take refuge in anger.
Ultimately, though, this conglomeration of ills has led to an outbreak of jaw-dropping stupidity. Americans do everything to the max and now a good many are doing stupidity this way. Frankly, it stuns me.
It seems clear to me now the desperate need to put Trump away. This boil will be lanced only with a highly publicized perp walk. The possibility exists, rather strongly in fact, that this will turn him into a martyr and catapult America into a fearful cycle of violence. That’s not certain. People may awaken from their fever dream and see Trump as a small, squalid man as so many Americans outside the circle of fear and failure do now.
But to fail at this signal task will be to surrender freedom. That would be a much worse outcome. There are those who are working relentlessly to bring Trump to justice. But do enough Americans have the stomach to offer open encouragement to Letitia James, the SDNY, and the Department of Justice? The legal entities must feel the will of the public behind them of the investigations will Peter out, buried in meaningless legalese.
There is fear on the left as well. Fear of Trump whipping up his supporters. One hopes that does not become a paralyzing malaise.
American stupidity is world-famous. However it is not universal, present company is a case in point. It is also not evenly distributed. Where I live in California, the rampant stupidity is on the decline. The reason that DT and his family moved out of New York City, their family home for three generations (grandparents born in Kallstadt Germany), is because of nonstop picketing and protests in front of Trump Tower. That family is no longer welcome, so they felt compelled to move to Florida, where they are far more welcome. NYC has long ago stopped being a safe harbor for white racists, once they have been identified.
Your concerns about the legal will, well, relying on media reports is of marginal help. Media reports should be the last resort for information, because it is often written more to attract readership than to convey clearly the reality on the ground. Too much hyperbole. Too much highlighting of isolated events. For reality on the ground, for true trends, you need real people, not journalists subject to the vicissitudes of their editors and employers: you already have Heather and the people in this community. Excellent resource. The expert commentators on MSNBC and CNN and elsewhere are also clear voices. The Lincoln project people, all of them, despite their internal troubles, are very smart. James Carville. These are go to sources.
I think the will is there, Eric. No more Bill Barr. DT is going to be arrested, if not this year then next year. Rudy Giuliani is almost there already, he’s about to be indicted. The wheels of American justice grind exceptionally slowly, but they grind surely. Once they have their case, the criminals are in trouble. Forever. It’s a stain that never goes away, and in this case, jail time is very very likely.
Thanks Roland. At my core, I think there are enough brilliant, dedicated and fearless legal entities to bring Trump to justice. I’m not certain of this because the concept of Trump’s legions have a habit of terrorizing people. To be honest though, we have mostly seen this in the insular world of politics.
An as significant unknown is which way the chips will fall if/when Trump is indicted. When he’s on trial, how far will his supporters go to back him? If he’s convicted what will be the fallout? I’m not at all sanguine that there would not be, say, an assassination attempt on a judge, lawyers or jurors. Then what’s the fallout? Nobody can look that far down the path.
Of course Trump’s support may be more ephemeral. If there is a sensational revelation (say, proof of a link to Epstein) there could be mass revulsion.
Or he could just slowly fade away and when arrested appear as he is - the emperor with no clothes.
Bad analogy, especially in a section referencing Epstein. :(
People propped up the emperor with no clothes.
I do think, though, that how this entire situation resolves goes through Trump.
I, too, hope in the lawyers working to indict Tя☭mp, et al. But you are right to raise concern about Tя☭mp's legions endangering the lives of judges, lawyers, and jurors. Does Fauci still have security? What about the Republican GA Secretary of State Raffensperger? And employees of Dominion?
Anger is usually a façade for the emotion underneath, the one they deny and don't want to deal with...shame, guilt, frustration, anxiety, loneliness...fear.
Ooooo, Stuart, I think that slant is interesting. I have thought they felt entitled just because they are white people. But there is nothing more shaming than to be anger at oneself for one's lot in life. I think it is more that they are angry that POC were getting help educationally and job-wise as our country attempted to equalize and dilute our caste system of perpetual poverty and inequality. That rattles the hearts of those who fear being the next disenfranchised population...and there may be historical guilt knowing what our white founders actually did to Make America Great--- they owned, tortured, raped, whipped and worked people to death just like colonials did in the "Pink" countries around the world. Our shadow is facing us squarely at this moment in time. We need to look at it, smell it's stink and deal with it's shame and guilt once and for all before we can fully be on the path to equality in this country and around the world. The Party of Pinocchio DO NOT WANT our people to be educated and or vote. They want total power and control. Just like Hitler, Putin and all the other autocrats and dictators who lust for power. These cult followers are merely tools for power. But We might need to get out from the safety of this forum and spew Truth in all ways and speak out now. I think it is time to try to break through the propaganda. I think those who lie should lose their right to free speech during this coup on sanity. Sounds a bit radical, but that might be what it takes to save Democracy.
Jan 6th were mostly middle aged white men in a deluded midlife crisis. No hobbies, no love, no other passionate activity as an outlet for real pain ( other than hoarding guns and playing soldier). Empty and lost lives, desperate to cure their self imposed meaninglessness.
"...a new kind of violent mass movement in which more “normal” Trump supporters—middle-class and, in many cases, middle-aged people without obvious ties to the far right—joined with extremists in an attempt to overturn a presidential election."
"Two-thirds are 35 or older, and 40 percent are business owners or hold white-collar jobs. Unlike the stereotypical extremist, many of the alleged participants in the Capitol riot have a lot to lose. They work as CEOs, shop owners, doctors, lawyers, IT specialists, and accountants. Strikingly, court documents indicate that only 9 percent are unemployed."
"...most of the insurrectionists do not come from deep-red strongholds. People familiar with America’s political geography might imagine the Capitol rioters as having marinated in places where they are unlikely to encounter anyone from the opposite side of the political spectrum."
And they were told to do it by the President of the United States. Not to excuse their crimes, but if they truly believed they were being called into action by the commander-in-chief, one can understand the delusion.
But that very "radicality" kills democracy just as effectively. Lies, big and small have always been a very basic mainstay of politics. You only win when you convince a majority of the people without unduly denigrating the unbelievers. They are necessary too.
On question of the "white. Supremacy" arguement. It is an "effect" and not a cause in my mind. The Black Community is just easy to blame and the Rich White Community has always sought to keep the "Poor Whites" agin them rather than with them. Divide and conquer!
I know that would be the answer to radically. But this is a Constitutional Crisis. Can we not measure actions and words by others that attempts to lie, gaslight, propagandize in an effort to overthrow a democracy against our Constitution and Bill of Rights? If it is anti-American at this critical moment in our history, can we not nip it? And later, when sanity returns to 40% of our people, we can let freedom of speech ring again. How do you protect against this rapid rise in totalitarianism otherwise? Is violent revolution our only upcoming answer? Can we not find another way by using slam dunk Justice immediately against these thugs spewing lies? One cannot have a democracy with liars. That is where we have arrived. This is no longer a democracy because we must trust one another with basic truths in order for democracy to exist. Is that not exactly what has been allowed to happen? Conspiracy theorists tried to stop our electoral counts by rioting at our Capital. Now they refuse to accept our ballots and are given power to re-count what has already been recounted multiple times because they believe the Big Lie. Yes, we have been divided and we are being conquered. This is a radical time and requires radical actions. I fear we are trying to trust our DOJ system. Is it too slow for the major infiltration of those hostile to our country and the damage already perpetrated on our democracy? Would a few years of radical curtailed freedom of lies be better than an out and out war? Or are we already too late to avoid a war? The world has looked to us for answers- do we have any? Really? Homegrown, cultified, armed terrorists have risen. What is the answer to this?
Thank you for your comment Penelope- I have been thinking so much of what you just put into words. Free speech is one of the bedrocks of our democracy, but at what cost? Allowing liars to go unchecked and to propagate their falsehoods without consequences isn’t working. I don’t believe all republicans are (were) evil, some of my family are both, but they’re being fed a 24/7 loop of lies from the x prez, hannity, tucker, and congress. To them their information is legitimate - because they trust these people. I can’t understand how the optics alone don’t make them second guess and wonder.
Yes, Joe, free speech, a pillar of our country is being used to manipulate and destroy our democracy. We need to find a way to level the field where lies and propaganda are not allowed to destroy a democracy. I have no idea how to do that quickly except using with radical interventions..
I do see this in some, Stuart... but right now I'm thinking about those who fell for the Q conspiracy angle. The 'woke' crowd. They don't fall into this group... ?
Surely the answer to your question is that the kleptocrats have manipulated those folks, directing their ire to targets they can be easily riled up about.
Thank you Kim. Your posts have helped me understand the emotion fueling the angry behavior patterns of former close friendships that I've needed to give up. Your explanation atleast gets to the WHY of it, which helps with the grief I have experienced and it syncs up exactly with the personalities of my former friends.
I have wondered that, too, Kelly. I heard/read about a theory from a researcher, Robert Pape, University of Chicago, who with others has examined data from the insurrection. He wrote in a recent Washington Post opinion piece: "One driver overwhelmingly stood out: fear of the Great Replacement. Great Replacement theory has achieved iconic status with white nationalists and holds that minorities are progressively replacing White populations due to mass immigration policies and low birthrates." He goes on to explain his findings. Worth a read. He was also interviewed on Ammanpour & Co. and wrote a piece in Esquire, probably elsewhere.
I believe Pape is correct, and it goes along with what Kim is saying. Anger is what I call a "secondary emotion." It's easier to feel anger than to experience the emotions of fear or shame, etc. What so many are fearing is loss of what they believe is their "right" as white people. They can't tolerate/fear that possibility, so become angry.
Yes, anger is a secondary emotion. So, we have to ask what lies beneath the anger? What are we afraid of? In this case, it's a fear of losing white supremacy. And also white Christianity.
And fear of other things too. Michele Goldberg: "People voted for Trump for reasons besides racism. There was also sexism. Some voters were just partisan Republicans or thought that reality TV is real and that Trump was as successful as “The Apprentice” made him seem. I once met a young man at a Trump rally who’d voted for Obama but was worried about the taxes he’d pay when he inherited his family’s car dealership.
Trump, however, seems to grasp that racism is what put him over the top. It’s what made his campaign seem wild and transgressive and hard to look away from."
Trump had a number of groups at his disposal and he took full advantage of their angst and fear - white supremacists, evangelicals, dominionists, misogynists, etc. He played to them all.
These are people who need someone to BLAME. They are playground bullies who never grew up to take responsibility for their own lives. In the Obama era, for example, there were many re-education opportunities for coal miners and improved health benefits. How unfair! /sarcasm. Compared with the majority of Immigrants who come to this country and take any job they can get and work hard, they are just windbags who want to get rich quick. Calling themselves Patriots is the ultimate offense.
As a retired teacher (1994-2016) I started teaching in the early days of parents sticking up for their children, always blaming the teacher or others. It started with a few students “who could do no wrong”. By the time I retired, it was most of them. I never had any trouble with students whose parents asked me to call them if I did - they behaved, did their homework and learned well. With the others, I tried to explain to parents that they weren’t doing their kids any favors by backing them when they were obviously wrong. Better to learn when you’re 8 and take a classmate’s pencil than when you’re 18 and get arrested for shoplifting. Most parents didn’t get it. That’s the upbringing that has led us to this mess of anger and blaming everyone instead of their own actions or inaction.
Excellent example of the acculturation to “blaming others” and victim hood. Those parents also learned it, and the Fox News culture has purposely fed it.
Agreed!! These are folks who are raised/acculturated in an environment of blaming others for every perceived negative in their own life all the while giving away their power to change it and exacerbating their feeling of powerlessness
It’s interesting how susceptible human beings can be when a person in authority starts repeating messages that make them feel better—like it’s all because of them that your lives aren’t so great anymore.
We know that abuse is multigenerational, for sure. And now discovering that in some cases the effects of trauma can actually be encoded in DNA, so the passage is more organic, in addition to the toxic environment.
Why the anger? These people feel that America is about white supremacy. They are simultaneously terrified and enraged that white people may be losing a monopoly on power. Their identity depends on (conservative, straight, propertied, male) white people calling the shots. They think that's what this country is really all about, and they are both terrified and enraged at the thought that are no longer the majority and might lose their imagined birthright to power.
Whose anger? I think there is plenty of anger in people of all opinions about the state of our country. And the "shame, guilt, frustration, anxiety, loneliness...fear" Kim Weidman mentions below are also pervasive. Are any of us living the life we were brought up to dream about, Stuart Attewell? This is a very disturbing and disturbed era we are living through, and though it is possible to sometimes take a bit of comfort from looking at the many times in world history that the human race has managed to survive, it's hard to take the long view when we are living in the midst of one of those times. Taking progressive action can only do so much to alleviate the guilt, frustration, anxiety, etc. Not a reason to give up, but definitely a reason to stop, take a breath, do some self care and spend time with like-minded friends.
Trump tore a hole in the body politic and his troops won’t let it heal because the wound nourishes them - the festering works to their benefit like flies laying eggs in the eyes of the dying.
They pick the scab, and will keep picking it, pouring their salted lies into it and spreading their poison coast to coast until they either die at their own hand, or so foul the system that in desperation, the people succumb, sacrificing their liberty to an autocrat.
We came perilously close to that fate, and today, instead of acknowledging the damage done by following their leader down his path to perdition, the party of Lincoln embraces him. They have undeniably cast their fate with his.
Banish the fetter of bipartisanship, Democrats. There is no bargaining with a boil. Lance it and be done with it. Move forward with the Agenda – pass the legislation needed to stop the bleeding and begin the healing.
Perfectly said! We don’t negotiate with terrorists! Manchin, Senima, need to realize this sooner than later. So does our Commander in Chief, he a class act, but kindness and etiquette don’t work when dealing with Domestic Enemies.
Any answer to the "Trupist faction" gives a platform for more attack from the Trump Cult. We all need to publicly and privately communicate our desire to support reasonable debate, and a government with a conscience. Let's all of us support a "Democracy Now" movement publicly and privately! Please read Stuart Atwell's letter above and help us organize a clear headed movement to rescue for our fragile United States of America!!
Thank you for your earlier post, our voters all share responsibility for our governance. I have no more patience for lies than anyone else and I believe that we can find a large majority of people who'll support some of us carrying signs, and maybe occupying a public square or two on a regular basis.
While the GOP appears to have lost all ability to be even somewhat reasonable, why are the Dems insisting on "working with them"? It's not like the GOP rolled out the red carpet of bipartisanship over the last 12 years (specifically). The GOP is batshit crazy, but the Dems need to stop letting the minority party pull all the strings. Enough is enough!
I really cannot get my head around the fact that those who instigated (trump and his criminal family), those who were complicit (republican congress people) and the terrorist minions who participated (everyone in the videos) in the attempted and violent January 6th political coup have not been indicted, tried, found guilty, and thrown in jail for the rest of their pathetic lives.
Why is the rule of law not taking hold here? I just don't get it and as far as I can tell, we are sinking further and further into the abyss of lawlessness and the type of 3rd world country that succumbs to and accepts violent and repressive "ideology" as a way of life. Thankfully, the majority voted the Biden/Harris administration into office BUT with the abject stupidity of a large subsection of the masses, who obviously can't distinguish their hind ends from their elbow, and the evil that currently directs republican mindset, IMO we are in deep bird doo as a country.
But hey, real estate prices are increasing at a ridiculous rate so there's a "shiny" new distraction . . . . wow people are "making a bundle" so who cares about politics anymore as long as I get mine?! Yeesh.
Janet we have a very fine AG now. He will do everything possible. Biden has an excellent team. The cult isn't growing, and there's lots of trouble on the other side. People need to organize as John Lewis made clear. Do not feel helpless. Talk to your friends, and reach out to Ellie Kona. There is a lot to do.
Yvette Schaff Kirilenko, I could not find you on the forum. Ellie is a subscriber and very active. She is lovely and hard working. When I see her name, I will give yours to her. She was on the forum yesterday with information. Look at the comments on yesterday's forum. Please let me know if you make contact with her. Thank you for getting involved this way.
This kind of complex investigation takes a lot of time and manpower to come up with prosecutable cases. When you factor in the specter of Congressional involvement and Presidential incitement, it must be thorough and complete.
I want congressional heads on a platter. I don’t want a sloppy, hasty investigation that has “technicalities” that allow guilty people to go free.
Ally. I think this is the first time I've ever heard on the LFFA Forum..."I want congressional heads on a platter." I just burst out laughing, picturing what that might look like! Headless Mitch! But perfectly understandable to feel that way. Thanks for my 2nd big belly laugh of the day.....
I agree with janjamm. 1/6 is the single largest most complicated crime in FBI and DOJ history. I don’t know if overextended is the right word, but they are definitely stretched. Patience is called for. Rudy Giuliani is about to be indicted any day. DT will be arrested, probably this year, if not then next year. The American criminal justice system grinds slowly, very slowly, but it grinds thoroughly. When they have their case, it’s usually something close to ironclad. DT and criminal associates and criminal family members will be in the news soon enough for their crimes. Never fear. Patience. 😘
In my town, when there is a homicide, people start posting a a just few days after, asking why they haven't caught the killer! It's as it people have lost a sense of time or a sense of legal process. There are hundreds of cases coming out of 1/6. Hundreds of leads to follow up. Hundreds to identify. I think the FBI and security are doing their job, finding proof, ID-ing people every day. It's a long schlog. Meanwhile, insurrectionists are "lawyering up," raising money, and groping for a defense. 1/6 is not a homicide in the neighborhood, it's a complicated legal process.
Hi Jan, I’m reposting this here to make sure you see it.
“I agree with janjamm. 1/6 is the single largest most complicated crime in FBI and DOJ history. I don’t know if overextended is the right word, but they are definitely stretched. Patience is called for. Rudy Giuliani is about to be indicted any day. DT will be arrested, probably this year, if not then next year. The American criminal justice system grinds slowly, very slowly, but it grinds thoroughly. When they have their case, it’s usually something close to ironclad. DT and criminal associates and criminal family members will be in the news soon enough for their crimes. Never fear. Patience. 😘
The rule of law assumes everyone buys in to it. Now we're learning it's optional. As for politicians backing the former president, most don't believe his shit but they like living in DC and don't want to go back to some podunk town in upstate NY i.e. Stefanik. So they play along in hope he drops dead.
The reason there is a base for this mess is b/c their elected reps and the former guy have repeated it so many times it has to be true.
The problem is there is a substantial mass of misguided middle to lower middle class Americans sufficient to keep this clown show on the air. To get it cancelled will take substantial bucks from all the liberals living in gated or almost gated communities given to the real grass roots of the left dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.
If it all goes to hell, it will be the fault of NIMBY Democrats in my not humble opinion b/c they had the financial means to push it over the edge. The rest of us are trying to figure out whether to pay the mortgage or get our kids braces, a college education or something just as important.
Janet, I am coming to the belief that the party of family values and the rule of law should be more correctly title the Party of Lawyers, Precedents, and Exceptions. As such, my behavior must be only judged in a court where the burden of individual responsibility is replaced by the burden of proof and wherein the exceptions to prosecution for my actions is rewrit in a narrative of other similar sounding cases where the defendent is left free by arguing how precedent cases exonerate me of wrongdoing. Thus, I do and if caught am likely to be found not guilty or not guilty enough to be tried where the dollar cost has to be borne by the state and a not guilty judgment will likely include recovery of court costs by the dependent. To wit, Trump and his thousands of suits.
"Senator Joe Manchin (D-WV), who has maintained he can work with the Republicans, commented: 'So disheartening. It makes you really concerned about our country…. I’m still praying we’ve still got 10 good solid patriots within that conference.'"
What will it take to convince the West Virginia senator that to the Republican Party, "good solid patriotism" is today defined as abject, obsequious loyalty to the former president. Or silence; a profound, deep, deafening silence, broken only by the single voice of Liz Cheney.
Congressional bipartisanship is dead, and wishful thinking by Joe Manchin will not bring it back to life. However, continued wishful thinking on the part of Senator Manchin can enable the Republicans to block any signficant initiatives by Democrats.
Maybe this will be the straw that gives Manchin just enough courage to crush the filibuster. It will provide a pretty stark image of what the consequences will be of caving in to the Republican autocrats. Does he really want to whitewash a Trump induced attack on our Congress, on our Democracy? If he joins the Democrats I have a sense that Sinema will not stand alone. If you're looking looking for a patriot Senator, you need look no farther than the mirror.
There is so much fear in this country right now. The previous administration ruled with fear. It continues to instill fear with lies. As a mental health professional, I can tell you fear is underneath powerlessness, and it is the basis of trauma. Those believing the lie live in anger which masks their fear and those that understand the truth of this situation live with a fear of losing our democracy. We live in the land of the free…yet we are not free because we live in fear.
Fear is the absence of hope. Hope comes from effective leaders and the strength in numbers of mass protests by like minded people.
This is something that has to happen in broad daylight, not on the screen of your smartphone. Images of a jam packed places like the Mall in Washington DC is where people find hope.
The left needs fewer hand wringers living in fear and more folks with signs in their hands standing shoulder to shoulder in solidarity with a million others.
I predict women will take the lead to get it started.
I fully agree with the point you make Kim. The fear comes from a combination of the pattern of self-isolation that Americans have slowly imposed on themselves in the last six decades. People feel alone. True community, with its ups and downs, has been discounted by many. The siren song of rugged individualism has been too seductive. Paradoxically and ironically that sense of isolation has been buoyed by “social” media where the communities are tangled, self-isolating, impersonal and, in the end ephemeral.
That fear has been strengthened too by the loss of hegemony American whites have begun to sense, ever-strengthening this century. Americans do not feel hegemonic in the world any longer. They don’t feel secure in their jobs. They certainly don’t feel secure in their whiteness. The book Deaths of Despair acutely points this general angst out. The opioid epidemic is more symbolic than anything else of how far and hard Americans sense they have fallen. And so they take refuge in anger.
Ultimately, though, this conglomeration of ills has led to an outbreak of jaw-dropping stupidity. Americans do everything to the max and now a good many are doing stupidity this way. Frankly, it stuns me.
It seems clear to me now the desperate need to put Trump away. This boil will be lanced only with a highly publicized perp walk. The possibility exists, rather strongly in fact, that this will turn him into a martyr and catapult America into a fearful cycle of violence. That’s not certain. People may awaken from their fever dream and see Trump as a small, squalid man as so many Americans outside the circle of fear and failure do now.
But to fail at this signal task will be to surrender freedom. That would be a much worse outcome. There are those who are working relentlessly to bring Trump to justice. But do enough Americans have the stomach to offer open encouragement to Letitia James, the SDNY, and the Department of Justice? The legal entities must feel the will of the public behind them of the investigations will Peter out, buried in meaningless legalese.
There is fear on the left as well. Fear of Trump whipping up his supporters. One hopes that does not become a paralyzing malaise.
American stupidity is world-famous. However it is not universal, present company is a case in point. It is also not evenly distributed. Where I live in California, the rampant stupidity is on the decline. The reason that DT and his family moved out of New York City, their family home for three generations (grandparents born in Kallstadt Germany), is because of nonstop picketing and protests in front of Trump Tower. That family is no longer welcome, so they felt compelled to move to Florida, where they are far more welcome. NYC has long ago stopped being a safe harbor for white racists, once they have been identified.
Your concerns about the legal will, well, relying on media reports is of marginal help. Media reports should be the last resort for information, because it is often written more to attract readership than to convey clearly the reality on the ground. Too much hyperbole. Too much highlighting of isolated events. For reality on the ground, for true trends, you need real people, not journalists subject to the vicissitudes of their editors and employers: you already have Heather and the people in this community. Excellent resource. The expert commentators on MSNBC and CNN and elsewhere are also clear voices. The Lincoln project people, all of them, despite their internal troubles, are very smart. James Carville. These are go to sources.
I think the will is there, Eric. No more Bill Barr. DT is going to be arrested, if not this year then next year. Rudy Giuliani is almost there already, he’s about to be indicted. The wheels of American justice grind exceptionally slowly, but they grind surely. Once they have their case, the criminals are in trouble. Forever. It’s a stain that never goes away, and in this case, jail time is very very likely.
As usual, Eric, brilliant analysis.
Thanks Roland. At my core, I think there are enough brilliant, dedicated and fearless legal entities to bring Trump to justice. I’m not certain of this because the concept of Trump’s legions have a habit of terrorizing people. To be honest though, we have mostly seen this in the insular world of politics.
An as significant unknown is which way the chips will fall if/when Trump is indicted. When he’s on trial, how far will his supporters go to back him? If he’s convicted what will be the fallout? I’m not at all sanguine that there would not be, say, an assassination attempt on a judge, lawyers or jurors. Then what’s the fallout? Nobody can look that far down the path.
Of course Trump’s support may be more ephemeral. If there is a sensational revelation (say, proof of a link to Epstein) there could be mass revulsion.
Or he could just slowly fade away and when arrested appear as he is - the emperor with no clothes.
Bad analogy, especially in a section referencing Epstein. :(
People propped up the emperor with no clothes.
I do think, though, that how this entire situation resolves goes through Trump.
I appreciate your comments Roland. Always.
I, too, hope in the lawyers working to indict Tя☭mp, et al. But you are right to raise concern about Tя☭mp's legions endangering the lives of judges, lawyers, and jurors. Does Fauci still have security? What about the Republican GA Secretary of State Raffensperger? And employees of Dominion?
My concern, too.
Something I've never understood, though, is WHY the anger?
Anger is usually a façade for the emotion underneath, the one they deny and don't want to deal with...shame, guilt, frustration, anxiety, loneliness...fear.
They are not living the life that they were brought up to dream about. They "fear" that it is their fault somehow and thus need sombody else to blame.
Ooooo, Stuart, I think that slant is interesting. I have thought they felt entitled just because they are white people. But there is nothing more shaming than to be anger at oneself for one's lot in life. I think it is more that they are angry that POC were getting help educationally and job-wise as our country attempted to equalize and dilute our caste system of perpetual poverty and inequality. That rattles the hearts of those who fear being the next disenfranchised population...and there may be historical guilt knowing what our white founders actually did to Make America Great--- they owned, tortured, raped, whipped and worked people to death just like colonials did in the "Pink" countries around the world. Our shadow is facing us squarely at this moment in time. We need to look at it, smell it's stink and deal with it's shame and guilt once and for all before we can fully be on the path to equality in this country and around the world. The Party of Pinocchio DO NOT WANT our people to be educated and or vote. They want total power and control. Just like Hitler, Putin and all the other autocrats and dictators who lust for power. These cult followers are merely tools for power. But We might need to get out from the safety of this forum and spew Truth in all ways and speak out now. I think it is time to try to break through the propaganda. I think those who lie should lose their right to free speech during this coup on sanity. Sounds a bit radical, but that might be what it takes to save Democracy.
Jan 6th were mostly middle aged white men in a deluded midlife crisis. No hobbies, no love, no other passionate activity as an outlet for real pain ( other than hoarding guns and playing soldier). Empty and lost lives, desperate to cure their self imposed meaninglessness.
The Capitol Rioters Aren’t Like Other Extremists:
"...a new kind of violent mass movement in which more “normal” Trump supporters—middle-class and, in many cases, middle-aged people without obvious ties to the far right—joined with extremists in an attempt to overturn a presidential election."
"Two-thirds are 35 or older, and 40 percent are business owners or hold white-collar jobs. Unlike the stereotypical extremist, many of the alleged participants in the Capitol riot have a lot to lose. They work as CEOs, shop owners, doctors, lawyers, IT specialists, and accountants. Strikingly, court documents indicate that only 9 percent are unemployed."
"...most of the insurrectionists do not come from deep-red strongholds. People familiar with America’s political geography might imagine the Capitol rioters as having marinated in places where they are unlikely to encounter anyone from the opposite side of the political spectrum."
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/02/the-capitol-rioters-arent-like-other-extremists/617895/
And they were told to do it by the President of the United States. Not to excuse their crimes, but if they truly believed they were being called into action by the commander-in-chief, one can understand the delusion.
Wow! You hit that nail right square on it’s head!
But that very "radicality" kills democracy just as effectively. Lies, big and small have always been a very basic mainstay of politics. You only win when you convince a majority of the people without unduly denigrating the unbelievers. They are necessary too.
On question of the "white. Supremacy" arguement. It is an "effect" and not a cause in my mind. The Black Community is just easy to blame and the Rich White Community has always sought to keep the "Poor Whites" agin them rather than with them. Divide and conquer!
Agreed Stuart, divide and conquer has always been the go to playbook of those in power.
When we scapegoat, demonize and ridicule the “stupid” Republicans we just play into their hands.
I believe Biden understands this and is attempting to bring hope and opportunity to those who feel left behind.
It’s a radical approach disarming the opposition.
The racism is camouflage for the classism.
I know that would be the answer to radically. But this is a Constitutional Crisis. Can we not measure actions and words by others that attempts to lie, gaslight, propagandize in an effort to overthrow a democracy against our Constitution and Bill of Rights? If it is anti-American at this critical moment in our history, can we not nip it? And later, when sanity returns to 40% of our people, we can let freedom of speech ring again. How do you protect against this rapid rise in totalitarianism otherwise? Is violent revolution our only upcoming answer? Can we not find another way by using slam dunk Justice immediately against these thugs spewing lies? One cannot have a democracy with liars. That is where we have arrived. This is no longer a democracy because we must trust one another with basic truths in order for democracy to exist. Is that not exactly what has been allowed to happen? Conspiracy theorists tried to stop our electoral counts by rioting at our Capital. Now they refuse to accept our ballots and are given power to re-count what has already been recounted multiple times because they believe the Big Lie. Yes, we have been divided and we are being conquered. This is a radical time and requires radical actions. I fear we are trying to trust our DOJ system. Is it too slow for the major infiltration of those hostile to our country and the damage already perpetrated on our democracy? Would a few years of radical curtailed freedom of lies be better than an out and out war? Or are we already too late to avoid a war? The world has looked to us for answers- do we have any? Really? Homegrown, cultified, armed terrorists have risen. What is the answer to this?
Thank you for your comment Penelope- I have been thinking so much of what you just put into words. Free speech is one of the bedrocks of our democracy, but at what cost? Allowing liars to go unchecked and to propagate their falsehoods without consequences isn’t working. I don’t believe all republicans are (were) evil, some of my family are both, but they’re being fed a 24/7 loop of lies from the x prez, hannity, tucker, and congress. To them their information is legitimate - because they trust these people. I can’t understand how the optics alone don’t make them second guess and wonder.
Yes, Joe, free speech, a pillar of our country is being used to manipulate and destroy our democracy. We need to find a way to level the field where lies and propaganda are not allowed to destroy a democracy. I have no idea how to do that quickly except using with radical interventions..
100%.
Demagoguery takes advantage of these facts. “Offering fake protection from real pain”-Tim Snyder
I do see this in some, Stuart... but right now I'm thinking about those who fell for the Q conspiracy angle. The 'woke' crowd. They don't fall into this group... ?
Qanon believers are the opposite of "woke."
Agree with TC. Nancy we here are the “woke.” QAnon are the sleepyheads, the cult followers.
haha! I know! I was referring to those who think they are... (like the health coaches & my family members who "found the truth" in Q)!
If this is true why don’t they put the blame where it belongs, on the kleptocrats?
Surely the answer to your question is that the kleptocrats have manipulated those folks, directing their ire to targets they can be easily riled up about.
Trisha, this resonates with me. I am always aware that to see most clearly, to make the best decisions, I need to view situations dispassionately.
Thank you Kim. Your posts have helped me understand the emotion fueling the angry behavior patterns of former close friendships that I've needed to give up. Your explanation atleast gets to the WHY of it, which helps with the grief I have experienced and it syncs up exactly with the personalities of my former friends.
100%!
I have wondered that, too, Kelly. I heard/read about a theory from a researcher, Robert Pape, University of Chicago, who with others has examined data from the insurrection. He wrote in a recent Washington Post opinion piece: "One driver overwhelmingly stood out: fear of the Great Replacement. Great Replacement theory has achieved iconic status with white nationalists and holds that minorities are progressively replacing White populations due to mass immigration policies and low birthrates." He goes on to explain his findings. Worth a read. He was also interviewed on Ammanpour & Co. and wrote a piece in Esquire, probably elsewhere.
It's one theory. But an interesting one.
I believe Pape is correct, and it goes along with what Kim is saying. Anger is what I call a "secondary emotion." It's easier to feel anger than to experience the emotions of fear or shame, etc. What so many are fearing is loss of what they believe is their "right" as white people. They can't tolerate/fear that possibility, so become angry.
Yes, anger is a secondary emotion. So, we have to ask what lies beneath the anger? What are we afraid of? In this case, it's a fear of losing white supremacy. And also white Christianity.
And fear of other things too. Michele Goldberg: "People voted for Trump for reasons besides racism. There was also sexism. Some voters were just partisan Republicans or thought that reality TV is real and that Trump was as successful as “The Apprentice” made him seem. I once met a young man at a Trump rally who’d voted for Obama but was worried about the taxes he’d pay when he inherited his family’s car dealership.
Trump, however, seems to grasp that racism is what put him over the top. It’s what made his campaign seem wild and transgressive and hard to look away from."
Trump had a number of groups at his disposal and he took full advantage of their angst and fear - white supremacists, evangelicals, dominionists, misogynists, etc. He played to them all.
In our society, men are allowed anger. Fear, shame and guilt denote weakness and are discouraged.
Awful lot of insurrectionist women, though. Just sayin'. Marjorie Taylor Greene is the angriest member of Congress.
Hmmm. Do not agree with that. I believe she is merely smug and very self serving.
Ashleigh Babbit was the only one shot and killed by police for crawling through the broken glass window/doorway to the offices.
Sadly yes and the most strident ones, like Greene, just confound me.
Once people are hardened to anger, it’s much easier to manipulate them. Demagoguery 101.
Ah, YOU were the prompting person! Great article! Thank you! I just posted this link elsewhere herein:
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/02/the-capitol-rioters-arent-like-other-extremists/617895/
Trump fueled the racist hate into anger —he stoked the fires through hours and hours on Twitter. Hitler didn’t have social media.
These are people who need someone to BLAME. They are playground bullies who never grew up to take responsibility for their own lives. In the Obama era, for example, there were many re-education opportunities for coal miners and improved health benefits. How unfair! /sarcasm. Compared with the majority of Immigrants who come to this country and take any job they can get and work hard, they are just windbags who want to get rich quick. Calling themselves Patriots is the ultimate offense.
As a retired teacher (1994-2016) I started teaching in the early days of parents sticking up for their children, always blaming the teacher or others. It started with a few students “who could do no wrong”. By the time I retired, it was most of them. I never had any trouble with students whose parents asked me to call them if I did - they behaved, did their homework and learned well. With the others, I tried to explain to parents that they weren’t doing their kids any favors by backing them when they were obviously wrong. Better to learn when you’re 8 and take a classmate’s pencil than when you’re 18 and get arrested for shoplifting. Most parents didn’t get it. That’s the upbringing that has led us to this mess of anger and blaming everyone instead of their own actions or inaction.
Excellent example of the acculturation to “blaming others” and victim hood. Those parents also learned it, and the Fox News culture has purposely fed it.
Agreed!! These are folks who are raised/acculturated in an environment of blaming others for every perceived negative in their own life all the while giving away their power to change it and exacerbating their feeling of powerlessness
It’s interesting how susceptible human beings can be when a person in authority starts repeating messages that make them feel better—like it’s all because of them that your lives aren’t so great anymore.
Stanley Milgram. Hahah Arendt.
3rd time today, Ted Keyes, I’ve totally agreed with you!
Ted is magnificent
“Do not obey in advance, (Tim Synder) for you teaches power what it has over you.
Ha ha Stanley!
A childhood of hurt
& inadequacy... no love. You can not love another, when you have never loved yourself. That is the former guy.
Wise words. Mary Trump's book gave a lot of detail about FG that explained so much.
His father was a malignant, abusive man.
And his mother not much better.
And so was Fred’s father.
We know that abuse is multigenerational, for sure. And now discovering that in some cases the effects of trauma can actually be encoded in DNA, so the passage is more organic, in addition to the toxic environment.
USA is becoming a majority-minority country. The fear is loss of white privilege
This interview has an answer about who stormed the capitol
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dskVval50AE
We saw the white male presence in the many videos of that day.
This interview with Robert A. Pape is worth watching. Please take the time...it is short and concise and surprising.
Very insightful. 🙏
Why the anger? These people feel that America is about white supremacy. They are simultaneously terrified and enraged that white people may be losing a monopoly on power. Their identity depends on (conservative, straight, propertied, male) white people calling the shots. They think that's what this country is really all about, and they are both terrified and enraged at the thought that are no longer the majority and might lose their imagined birthright to power.
Whose anger? I think there is plenty of anger in people of all opinions about the state of our country. And the "shame, guilt, frustration, anxiety, loneliness...fear" Kim Weidman mentions below are also pervasive. Are any of us living the life we were brought up to dream about, Stuart Attewell? This is a very disturbing and disturbed era we are living through, and though it is possible to sometimes take a bit of comfort from looking at the many times in world history that the human race has managed to survive, it's hard to take the long view when we are living in the midst of one of those times. Taking progressive action can only do so much to alleviate the guilt, frustration, anxiety, etc. Not a reason to give up, but definitely a reason to stop, take a breath, do some self care and spend time with like-minded friends.
Anger is a secondary emotion.
Agreed
TY, well said. Linda Seidel,M.S. Retired ? at 74 yrs.
100%!
Trump tore a hole in the body politic and his troops won’t let it heal because the wound nourishes them - the festering works to their benefit like flies laying eggs in the eyes of the dying.
They pick the scab, and will keep picking it, pouring their salted lies into it and spreading their poison coast to coast until they either die at their own hand, or so foul the system that in desperation, the people succumb, sacrificing their liberty to an autocrat.
We came perilously close to that fate, and today, instead of acknowledging the damage done by following their leader down his path to perdition, the party of Lincoln embraces him. They have undeniably cast their fate with his.
Banish the fetter of bipartisanship, Democrats. There is no bargaining with a boil. Lance it and be done with it. Move forward with the Agenda – pass the legislation needed to stop the bleeding and begin the healing.
“You don’t negotiate with terrorists” is an old hostage negotiator saying.
This is the same sort of scenario, only it is democracy being held hostage at this point.
Perfectly said! We don’t negotiate with terrorists! Manchin, Senima, need to realize this sooner than later. So does our Commander in Chief, he a class act, but kindness and etiquette don’t work when dealing with Domestic Enemies.
Totally agree!
Pretty repulsive imagery R., but point taken.
Any answer to the "Trupist faction" gives a platform for more attack from the Trump Cult. We all need to publicly and privately communicate our desire to support reasonable debate, and a government with a conscience. Let's all of us support a "Democracy Now" movement publicly and privately! Please read Stuart Atwell's letter above and help us organize a clear headed movement to rescue for our fragile United States of America!!
Thank you for your earlier post, our voters all share responsibility for our governance. I have no more patience for lies than anyone else and I believe that we can find a large majority of people who'll support some of us carrying signs, and maybe occupying a public square or two on a regular basis.
Yikes. But you are so right.
100%!
While the GOP appears to have lost all ability to be even somewhat reasonable, why are the Dems insisting on "working with them"? It's not like the GOP rolled out the red carpet of bipartisanship over the last 12 years (specifically). The GOP is batshit crazy, but the Dems need to stop letting the minority party pull all the strings. Enough is enough!
I really cannot get my head around the fact that those who instigated (trump and his criminal family), those who were complicit (republican congress people) and the terrorist minions who participated (everyone in the videos) in the attempted and violent January 6th political coup have not been indicted, tried, found guilty, and thrown in jail for the rest of their pathetic lives.
Why is the rule of law not taking hold here? I just don't get it and as far as I can tell, we are sinking further and further into the abyss of lawlessness and the type of 3rd world country that succumbs to and accepts violent and repressive "ideology" as a way of life. Thankfully, the majority voted the Biden/Harris administration into office BUT with the abject stupidity of a large subsection of the masses, who obviously can't distinguish their hind ends from their elbow, and the evil that currently directs republican mindset, IMO we are in deep bird doo as a country.
But hey, real estate prices are increasing at a ridiculous rate so there's a "shiny" new distraction . . . . wow people are "making a bundle" so who cares about politics anymore as long as I get mine?! Yeesh.
Janet we have a very fine AG now. He will do everything possible. Biden has an excellent team. The cult isn't growing, and there's lots of trouble on the other side. People need to organize as John Lewis made clear. Do not feel helpless. Talk to your friends, and reach out to Ellie Kona. There is a lot to do.
Thanks, Fern. You're right.
Yvette Schaff Kirilenko, I could not find you on the forum. Ellie is a subscriber and very active. She is lovely and hard working. When I see her name, I will give yours to her. She was on the forum yesterday with information. Look at the comments on yesterday's forum. Please let me know if you make contact with her. Thank you for getting involved this way.
This kind of complex investigation takes a lot of time and manpower to come up with prosecutable cases. When you factor in the specter of Congressional involvement and Presidential incitement, it must be thorough and complete.
I want congressional heads on a platter. I don’t want a sloppy, hasty investigation that has “technicalities” that allow guilty people to go free.
Ally. I think this is the first time I've ever heard on the LFFA Forum..."I want congressional heads on a platter." I just burst out laughing, picturing what that might look like! Headless Mitch! But perfectly understandable to feel that way. Thanks for my 2nd big belly laugh of the day.....
I agree with janjamm. 1/6 is the single largest most complicated crime in FBI and DOJ history. I don’t know if overextended is the right word, but they are definitely stretched. Patience is called for. Rudy Giuliani is about to be indicted any day. DT will be arrested, probably this year, if not then next year. The American criminal justice system grinds slowly, very slowly, but it grinds thoroughly. When they have their case, it’s usually something close to ironclad. DT and criminal associates and criminal family members will be in the news soon enough for their crimes. Never fear. Patience. 😘
In my town, when there is a homicide, people start posting a a just few days after, asking why they haven't caught the killer! It's as it people have lost a sense of time or a sense of legal process. There are hundreds of cases coming out of 1/6. Hundreds of leads to follow up. Hundreds to identify. I think the FBI and security are doing their job, finding proof, ID-ing people every day. It's a long schlog. Meanwhile, insurrectionists are "lawyering up," raising money, and groping for a defense. 1/6 is not a homicide in the neighborhood, it's a complicated legal process.
Hi Jan, I’m reposting this here to make sure you see it.
“I agree with janjamm. 1/6 is the single largest most complicated crime in FBI and DOJ history. I don’t know if overextended is the right word, but they are definitely stretched. Patience is called for. Rudy Giuliani is about to be indicted any day. DT will be arrested, probably this year, if not then next year. The American criminal justice system grinds slowly, very slowly, but it grinds thoroughly. When they have their case, it’s usually something close to ironclad. DT and criminal associates and criminal family members will be in the news soon enough for their crimes. Never fear. Patience. 😘
The rule of law assumes everyone buys in to it. Now we're learning it's optional. As for politicians backing the former president, most don't believe his shit but they like living in DC and don't want to go back to some podunk town in upstate NY i.e. Stefanik. So they play along in hope he drops dead.
The reason there is a base for this mess is b/c their elected reps and the former guy have repeated it so many times it has to be true.
The problem is there is a substantial mass of misguided middle to lower middle class Americans sufficient to keep this clown show on the air. To get it cancelled will take substantial bucks from all the liberals living in gated or almost gated communities given to the real grass roots of the left dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.
If it all goes to hell, it will be the fault of NIMBY Democrats in my not humble opinion b/c they had the financial means to push it over the edge. The rest of us are trying to figure out whether to pay the mortgage or get our kids braces, a college education or something just as important.
Janet, I am coming to the belief that the party of family values and the rule of law should be more correctly title the Party of Lawyers, Precedents, and Exceptions. As such, my behavior must be only judged in a court where the burden of individual responsibility is replaced by the burden of proof and wherein the exceptions to prosecution for my actions is rewrit in a narrative of other similar sounding cases where the defendent is left free by arguing how precedent cases exonerate me of wrongdoing. Thus, I do and if caught am likely to be found not guilty or not guilty enough to be tried where the dollar cost has to be borne by the state and a not guilty judgment will likely include recovery of court costs by the dependent. To wit, Trump and his thousands of suits.
"Senator Joe Manchin (D-WV), who has maintained he can work with the Republicans, commented: 'So disheartening. It makes you really concerned about our country…. I’m still praying we’ve still got 10 good solid patriots within that conference.'"
What will it take to convince the West Virginia senator that to the Republican Party, "good solid patriotism" is today defined as abject, obsequious loyalty to the former president. Or silence; a profound, deep, deafening silence, broken only by the single voice of Liz Cheney.
Congressional bipartisanship is dead, and wishful thinking by Joe Manchin will not bring it back to life. However, continued wishful thinking on the part of Senator Manchin can enable the Republicans to block any signficant initiatives by Democrats.
Got that, Joe?
Maybe this will be the straw that gives Manchin just enough courage to crush the filibuster. It will provide a pretty stark image of what the consequences will be of caving in to the Republican autocrats. Does he really want to whitewash a Trump induced attack on our Congress, on our Democracy? If he joins the Democrats I have a sense that Sinema will not stand alone. If you're looking looking for a patriot Senator, you need look no farther than the mirror.