For anyone here who is still a believer in "I must vote my conscience regardless" since the purity of your "conscience" is much more important than the welfare of the rest of us, remember that it was the Nader voters who gave us Bush II, and therefore also gave us Samuel Alito. I doubt either of those outcomes are what their "conscience"…
For anyone here who is still a believer in "I must vote my conscience regardless" since the purity of your "conscience" is much more important than the welfare of the rest of us, remember that it was the Nader voters who gave us Bush II, and therefore also gave us Samuel Alito. I doubt either of those outcomes are what their "conscience" dictated as good, but that's what they got. Had they voted for the welfare of everybody and not made their precious little ego more important than anything else, President Gore would not have invaded Poland, er, I mean Iraq, destabilizing the Middle East far more than any terrorist could hope to accomplish; we would have been dealing seriously with the climate crisis for the past 24 years; Alito would not be on the court; and very likely Trump would not have run and been elected by fluke, so that the Court would not be a 6-3 fascist majority, Roe v Wade would still be the law of the land. In retrospect, voting for the good of all would likely have gotten the "conscience" voter more of what they said they wanted to achieve with their "conscience" vote.
To my ever lasting regret, I voted “my conscience” w/ a Nader vote….albeit in a safely “blue” state of CA…..still I lived to deeply regret it (given our current electoral system). Have communicated in past elections to friends & neighbors about the danger of 3rd party candidates (again a statement about our system)….and that they must pay attention to “the bottom line” and that, yes, the lesser of “two evils” is a better choice. I, like many, want our election “system” to be different….only, right now, it isn’t, so we MUST choose to cast a ballot for the “lesser of two evils”. That said, I support the Biden/Harris admin & all the qualified folks they’ve put in cabinet/gov’t positions. Biden/Harris is not big on tooting their own horn….they are busy getting the work of state done for the betterment of us all. Just sayin’…..
Barbara, You can discuss the problems resulting from the Electoral College after I'm dead and the new revolution is over. I'm with the Founders, regardless of whether they were able to predict every possible result and change, bad or good since their era. What I'm saying is that it's foundational. We must adjust to reality. That's on us. It comes with certain responsibilities. But it also can enable us to vote our conscience. TCinLA can pretend that this is a Greek Democracy all he wants to. It is not, and was not intended to be. Deal with it. I am proud that I voted for Ralph Nader in 2000. I'm a Californian also and I don't need a poll to tell me that it's been blue since 92.
Other than all that, I agree with you 100%. Just sayin'.
Ralph Nader could have never been born and Bush would still have stolen the election. Remember all the black voters who got visits from Florida State Troopers? Not to mention Al Gore's gutless capitulation. Just sayin'...
Instead, we ended up with this “Man in the High Castle” scenario. “Conscience” means inaction, and inaction results in tyranny. God save us from the “do-gooders”! Their righteousness will not protect us from the masses of conspiracy-filled “know-nothings”.
So very well said. I also reflect often with sadness how the path of our country snd the world could have been so different, and probably a lot saner than how it has evolved over this past 24 years.. I might also add 9/11 would not have happened, either. 😨
Yes, sanitized is the word, and I too had a civics class, though I wish the school had started earlier (we had civics our senior year). But I seriously doubt that many schools still teach it.
"Sanitized" is too kind. "Fictitious" would be more accurate. A number of reasons we are currently listed as a "flawed" democracy, a stressed out society, and as only a marginally free nation (second in North America) occurred by design of the founders to maintain an oligarchy of privileged land owners, slave owners, white males and prevent a real democracy from taking root. Operatives controlling both cartel parties do perpetuate this.
TC, it is also the "Bernie Bros" and their ilk that gave us fpotus instead of Hillary Clinton. I think that her Presidency would have seen ten times the vitriol that President Obama had leveled against him, but at least we'd have had someone who was a grifter and a serial abuser in office.
It is those "conscience voters" that gave us the the three SCROTUS judges that fpotus was able to appoint.
I often wonder what Hillary Clinton's response to COVID-19 would have been. For on thing, she would have utilized Obama's protocols for handling a pandemic. Maybe I wouldn't have spent two precious years confined mostly to my house. Fortunately, I was able to hug my little grandchildren on Fathers Day in 2020. The first months of the quarantine were hell. Our country still hasn't recovered.
As a musician I lost almost 2 years of my primary creative outlet. As one of the first people eligible to be vaccinated (I was working for the Sheriff's Department as Courthouse Security) I was our "framily" connection. For three solid months, I shopped for everybody as several of them were immunocompromised.
I can only imagine how much different the response would have been...
Come on, TC. The Nader voters in 2000, myself included, in no way led to Dubya, who lost the popular vote to Gore. Nobody could have foreseen the Floridian fiasco, and nobody knew that Sullen, Seditionist Sam Alito lurked in the wings.
Beyond that, let's face it: People can vote for whomever they choose, as that's the entire raison d'etre of elections, as Voltaire once said. Or was it John "Frenchy" Fuqua?!
We have enough to worry about without the baggage of guilt tripping over voting our judgments, and yes, our consciences
He is 109% right, I knew it and never would have voted for Nader even though I likely aligned with his views more than anyone else. His ego outshined any good he did. God forbid if everyone votes for their selfish wants and not for the country. Even the moronic MAGAts, in their cult devotion, think they are saving the country. I knew Bush was a creation of Rove and would be as horrible as he was in Texas. Duh
I find it ironic that you use the word ego. I watched An Inconvenient Truth in the theater, and was completely turned off by Al Gore's ego. The fact that it was dumbed down to an 8th grade level didn't help either. And to be honest, I was prejudiced against his southern accent. As it turns out, there's a lot of truth in that movie. It could have had a much bigger impact if it had been done well.
No I never thought Gore was toxic. He fell on his sword rather than drag out the battle with W because he didn't want to divide the country. Just the opposite of the power hungry super toxic Trump. But Gore did crave fame and glory, and I thought that his self glorification was obvious in the movie. He could have made a real difference with it if he had hired a scientific group or a good science promoter. I know I was inspired by Carl Sagan in when I was in the 10th grade. I tried to get my grandsons interested in science when they were in grade school by watching a couple of episodes of Cosmos by Neil deGrasse Tyson with them (It didn't work). Big oil and big gas are still lying about global warming and we are heading for disaster. It's later than we think.
Had I lived in a swing state I would have voted for Gore. I thought Nader deserved a bigger audience. Considering the chaos in Congress the last several years, you may be right about duopoly. It's just hard to imagine what might replace it.
Same here, Justin. I'm a Californian, and the then Governor of Tejas GWB had no chance here. Needless to say, both Gore and Nader knew that Slovakia was not Slovenia 🤣
Yes, Gore won the popular vote. But Hillary won the popular vote by almost three million! I proudly voted for Gore, Obama and especially Hillary Clinton. The press and the FBI were so hard on Hillary Clinton. In the end, there was really nothing. I'm so sick of people saying we must choose between the lesser of two evils. 45 is evil! W is an idiot, who couldn't manage a baseball franchise much less a country. Lots and lots of money and bad press buys incompetent and corrupt leadership. And we get tax cuts for the wealthy, huge deficits and war as a result.
Anyway Themon, that was meant for TC, not you. By the way, thank you for helping me get TC. Funny that you get his rants of causation but you don't get my humor. We could use a good translator around here. Good to meet you Bard.
Hey you, I mean yes, you… TCinLA, how dare you use my thoughts. I’m calling my attorney Bernie and I intend to sue you for stealing my very thoughts that are worth thousands. See ya in Court.
A vote for Nader was a vote against the duopoly. All those who don't fight the duopoly, and pride themselves on how they understand it, and supported it back then should be very pleased with the two choices we have in this election.
Priding oneself on some ineffectual Utopian idealism is not helping matters either.
I may not like the system as it is but the Democrats at least try to give us some semblance of a democracy and our right to vote. While the Republicans have consistently lurched so far to the right that they've gone so far past goosestepping towards fascism that we have now entered into some bizarro world totalitarian criminal kleptocracy as the other option in the next presidential electinon! That is not worth voting third party or your conscience or whatever you think is a good reason for letting a maniac charlatan back into the White House.
The Republicans are abysmal. Agreed. So the Democrats put the very unpopular Hillary Clinton up against the horrid orange turd. What could go wrong? Oh, well, then how about the very unpopular Biden who won by the slimmest of margins last time. Surely there won't be a problem with running him again, will there? I talk to people on the other side. They recognize how vile Trump is, but, for some reason, hate Biden more. Yet the RNC and the DNC have decided these are to be our choices. (I'm voting for Biden.)
The very unpopular Clinton won the national popular vote. The very unpopular Biden has been sweeping the primaries with large margins. They hate Biden more because they have been lied to and programmed to do so. We have primaries, and both Clinton and Biden were elected thereby to be our candidates. As Trump has been. And I’m glad you’ll be voting for Biden. Me, too.
Dennis, I’m as frustrated as you. So you say “The Democrats put up…” yes and no. Senator Sherwood Brown of Ohio was testing the waters in 2015 and I was very excited about the prospect of a Brown presidency. Then when Biden was showing interest in 2015, the Clintons met him on their respective planes remember the infamous plane meeting? They offered Biden something to drop out. My thought was they offered Biden a lot of money devoted to cancer research since his son had recently died. We’ll never know. And Clinton became the candidate that couldn’t walk straight even literally. The moment at 9/11 services when Clinton almost fainted and needed help getting into the car. The Comey announcement of an investigation days before the election. That alone sank her. Then the Benghazi hearings when the repuklicans wore her down until she yelled, “What difference does it make” the repuklicans had their sound bite.
And then our nation took a dive and will most certainly end as we have known it in November if Grandpa Joe doesn’t pull it off. And I have my secret thoughts on that.
But looking philosophically, if trump wins and most certainly installs an autocratic-like regime, later, the pendulum will shift and once again we will have democracy. But what a price to pay. The price is so dear after only losing the protection offered to women under Row verses Wade. So much loss. Maybe 25 of 50 years from now, we will once again have our democracy. Oops, did I say I had secret thoughts? I lied.
No, actually, for me I'd rather have either the Libertarians or the Progressives in office. Both, with different ideals, want government that's best for the people. I'd like the opportunity to vote for them. (Ranked choice voting.) I hate Trump, the MAGA folks as much as anyone, but I really put the blame on Congress. This racist country elected a black Democrat because he promised to do something for the people. Fix health care. And asked Congress to get rid of the corporate health care mess and give us either, he said either, free markets (libertarian) or national health (progressive). Congress didn't do it, basically kept the most lucrative (for the industry) health care system intact and put a mandate on people who didn't like it. Obama was great, but his Democrat Congress created the outrage that gave us Trump. Those idiots who vote for Trump were probably upset when Congress bailed out the banks, instead of the people in the sub prime crisis, maybe upset with Congress siding with the credit card companies on usurious fees, etc. etc. The problem is the government isn't working for a lot of people, and Trump is brilliant at channelling that frustration into his own support. Oh he's a con, what's happening in this country is despicable, but just consider that a Trump supporter might be one who lost their house in subprime, is stuck with credit card debt they can't pay back and looking at bankruptcy over health care bills. (I am voting for Biden.)
Best example of how people on the same side can think as differently as people on opposite sides. I am another one who dreams of a progressive country, but I am pragmatic enough to smell bullschittery.
Jeri, I was ruminating on a long winded reply, but I like your answer better. Yes, common sense trumps bullschittery, which I believe is Trump's true middle name.
As far as the Libertarians, I view them as an empty shell. They have ideas, but no substance. Their "free" markets are not free, just predatory. Their platform says one thing, but leaves out a method to protect their positions as they kind of just want to rely on the goodness of people. Matthew Hongolts-Hetling "A Libertarian Walks into a Bear" is a great book on how their ideas would work. A suggested read for anyone that might lean that way.
Thank you, love the title. Ideas without some bit of substance are as useless as one who no longer breathes. As the wind says, there is no one here by that name…
I did vote for Nader and didn't live in a swing state. Biden wasn't my first choice but has been a very good surprise, all things considered. But none of that matters now. Let's throw away all of our old theories. This will still be the easiest choice I've ever made. There's a greater priority. Democracy itself is on the line.
For anyone here who is still a believer in "I must vote my conscience regardless" since the purity of your "conscience" is much more important than the welfare of the rest of us, remember that it was the Nader voters who gave us Bush II, and therefore also gave us Samuel Alito. I doubt either of those outcomes are what their "conscience" dictated as good, but that's what they got. Had they voted for the welfare of everybody and not made their precious little ego more important than anything else, President Gore would not have invaded Poland, er, I mean Iraq, destabilizing the Middle East far more than any terrorist could hope to accomplish; we would have been dealing seriously with the climate crisis for the past 24 years; Alito would not be on the court; and very likely Trump would not have run and been elected by fluke, so that the Court would not be a 6-3 fascist majority, Roe v Wade would still be the law of the land. In retrospect, voting for the good of all would likely have gotten the "conscience" voter more of what they said they wanted to achieve with their "conscience" vote.
To my ever lasting regret, I voted “my conscience” w/ a Nader vote….albeit in a safely “blue” state of CA…..still I lived to deeply regret it (given our current electoral system). Have communicated in past elections to friends & neighbors about the danger of 3rd party candidates (again a statement about our system)….and that they must pay attention to “the bottom line” and that, yes, the lesser of “two evils” is a better choice. I, like many, want our election “system” to be different….only, right now, it isn’t, so we MUST choose to cast a ballot for the “lesser of two evils”. That said, I support the Biden/Harris admin & all the qualified folks they’ve put in cabinet/gov’t positions. Biden/Harris is not big on tooting their own horn….they are busy getting the work of state done for the betterment of us all. Just sayin’…..
Well Barbara, at least Nader hadn’t announced that he had a brain worm before you voted for him. Points for that.
😂👏
The Supreme Court installed Bush in 2000. Sandra Day O’Conner said she regretted that decision. They were compromised then too.
And Kavanaugh and Cony Barret were in Florida to "help recount" the votes...
Oh, that’s just a coincidence🤣🤣
3rd Party candidates: the fascists' best friend.
Barbara, You can discuss the problems resulting from the Electoral College after I'm dead and the new revolution is over. I'm with the Founders, regardless of whether they were able to predict every possible result and change, bad or good since their era. What I'm saying is that it's foundational. We must adjust to reality. That's on us. It comes with certain responsibilities. But it also can enable us to vote our conscience. TCinLA can pretend that this is a Greek Democracy all he wants to. It is not, and was not intended to be. Deal with it. I am proud that I voted for Ralph Nader in 2000. I'm a Californian also and I don't need a poll to tell me that it's been blue since 92.
Other than all that, I agree with you 100%. Just sayin'.
Ralph Nader could have never been born and Bush would still have stolen the election. Remember all the black voters who got visits from Florida State Troopers? Not to mention Al Gore's gutless capitulation. Just sayin'...
And Young Kavanaugh and Cony Barrett " re-counting" the Florida ballots?
Instead, we ended up with this “Man in the High Castle” scenario. “Conscience” means inaction, and inaction results in tyranny. God save us from the “do-gooders”! Their righteousness will not protect us from the masses of conspiracy-filled “know-nothings”.
Hurray for Umbria!
With you — every time @Herb Klinker posts I am nostalgic for the places in Umbria that I love.
So very well said. I also reflect often with sadness how the path of our country snd the world could have been so different, and probably a lot saner than how it has evolved over this past 24 years.. I might also add 9/11 would not have happened, either. 😨
And if it had, we wouldn't have reacted as we did. But I think the anti-terrorism people would have caught the conspiracy.
So much for “To virtue, honesty, education of the people and the rule of law. We can have no country without one or be worthy of one.”
Interesting that one of the things the GOP has tried their best to do is destroy public education.
I got a very sanitized version of American History in school - but we did learn Civics. Do they even teach that anymore?
Yes, sanitized is the word, and I too had a civics class, though I wish the school had started earlier (we had civics our senior year). But I seriously doubt that many schools still teach it.
"Sanitized" is too kind. "Fictitious" would be more accurate. A number of reasons we are currently listed as a "flawed" democracy, a stressed out society, and as only a marginally free nation (second in North America) occurred by design of the founders to maintain an oligarchy of privileged land owners, slave owners, white males and prevent a real democracy from taking root. Operatives controlling both cartel parties do perpetuate this.
Great point Tom, if any staff of the DNC, DCCC, DSCC had even a modicum of intellect they'd pick it up and promote this.
TC, it is also the "Bernie Bros" and their ilk that gave us fpotus instead of Hillary Clinton. I think that her Presidency would have seen ten times the vitriol that President Obama had leveled against him, but at least we'd have had someone who was a grifter and a serial abuser in office.
It is those "conscience voters" that gave us the the three SCROTUS judges that fpotus was able to appoint.
I often wonder what Hillary Clinton's response to COVID-19 would have been. For on thing, she would have utilized Obama's protocols for handling a pandemic. Maybe I wouldn't have spent two precious years confined mostly to my house. Fortunately, I was able to hug my little grandchildren on Fathers Day in 2020. The first months of the quarantine were hell. Our country still hasn't recovered.
As a musician I lost almost 2 years of my primary creative outlet. As one of the first people eligible to be vaccinated (I was working for the Sheriff's Department as Courthouse Security) I was our "framily" connection. For three solid months, I shopped for everybody as several of them were immunocompromised.
I can only imagine how much different the response would have been...
Ha!
Come on, TC. The Nader voters in 2000, myself included, in no way led to Dubya, who lost the popular vote to Gore. Nobody could have foreseen the Floridian fiasco, and nobody knew that Sullen, Seditionist Sam Alito lurked in the wings.
Beyond that, let's face it: People can vote for whomever they choose, as that's the entire raison d'etre of elections, as Voltaire once said. Or was it John "Frenchy" Fuqua?!
We have enough to worry about without the baggage of guilt tripping over voting our judgments, and yes, our consciences
He is 109% right, I knew it and never would have voted for Nader even though I likely aligned with his views more than anyone else. His ego outshined any good he did. God forbid if everyone votes for their selfish wants and not for the country. Even the moronic MAGAts, in their cult devotion, think they are saving the country. I knew Bush was a creation of Rove and would be as horrible as he was in Texas. Duh
I find it ironic that you use the word ego. I watched An Inconvenient Truth in the theater, and was completely turned off by Al Gore's ego. The fact that it was dumbed down to an 8th grade level didn't help either. And to be honest, I was prejudiced against his southern accent. As it turns out, there's a lot of truth in that movie. It could have had a much bigger impact if it had been done well.
Egos abound, decide which are toxic. Eighth grade level is too high for some I know, take it and go from there.
No I never thought Gore was toxic. He fell on his sword rather than drag out the battle with W because he didn't want to divide the country. Just the opposite of the power hungry super toxic Trump. But Gore did crave fame and glory, and I thought that his self glorification was obvious in the movie. He could have made a real difference with it if he had hired a scientific group or a good science promoter. I know I was inspired by Carl Sagan in when I was in the 10th grade. I tried to get my grandsons interested in science when they were in grade school by watching a couple of episodes of Cosmos by Neil deGrasse Tyson with them (It didn't work). Big oil and big gas are still lying about global warming and we are heading for disaster. It's later than we think.
So loved Carl, I had already left NASA when I saw his Cosmos. The earth wept when he died…
Well, I guess we disagree on something, Jeri.
Ralph Nader was arguably the most piercingly perceptive and intelligent Presidential candidate in modern history.
His ego, however large it was and is, was certainly dwarfed by the range of his accomplishments and his wisdom on the issues.
I would also add that the two party duopoly we have had for way too long is a major problem
Had I lived in a swing state I would have voted for Gore. I thought Nader deserved a bigger audience. Considering the chaos in Congress the last several years, you may be right about duopoly. It's just hard to imagine what might replace it.
Same here, Justin. I'm a Californian, and the then Governor of Tejas GWB had no chance here. Needless to say, both Gore and Nader knew that Slovakia was not Slovenia 🤣
Yeah I thought he was the worst president ever. Of course that was before the Orange Turd proved that ANYBODY could be president.
Yes, Gore won the popular vote. But Hillary won the popular vote by almost three million! I proudly voted for Gore, Obama and especially Hillary Clinton. The press and the FBI were so hard on Hillary Clinton. In the end, there was really nothing. I'm so sick of people saying we must choose between the lesser of two evils. 45 is evil! W is an idiot, who couldn't manage a baseball franchise much less a country. Lots and lots of money and bad press buys incompetent and corrupt leadership. And we get tax cuts for the wealthy, huge deficits and war as a result.
To the gallows
You might want to go re-read the history of the Florida recount, Daniel.
...that, to me, is the greater "conscience".
What you are saying, TCinLA, is that we are already in a war, and we need to choose sides.
I can't disagree.
You got it, Themon.
💡🐴🦄 No VC! Respect soldier.
????????
VC = Victory Conditions? Venture Capital? Viet Cong? Vote of Confidence? Volume Control?
Anyway Themon, that was meant for TC, not you. By the way, thank you for helping me get TC. Funny that you get his rants of causation but you don't get my humor. We could use a good translator around here. Good to meet you Bard.
Viet Cong
Hey you, I mean yes, you… TCinLA, how dare you use my thoughts. I’m calling my attorney Bernie and I intend to sue you for stealing my very thoughts that are worth thousands. See ya in Court.
I laughed out loud. We're all "open source" here. :-)
🤣
A vote for Nader was a vote against the duopoly. All those who don't fight the duopoly, and pride themselves on how they understand it, and supported it back then should be very pleased with the two choices we have in this election.
Priding oneself on some ineffectual Utopian idealism is not helping matters either.
I may not like the system as it is but the Democrats at least try to give us some semblance of a democracy and our right to vote. While the Republicans have consistently lurched so far to the right that they've gone so far past goosestepping towards fascism that we have now entered into some bizarro world totalitarian criminal kleptocracy as the other option in the next presidential electinon! That is not worth voting third party or your conscience or whatever you think is a good reason for letting a maniac charlatan back into the White House.
The Republicans are abysmal. Agreed. So the Democrats put the very unpopular Hillary Clinton up against the horrid orange turd. What could go wrong? Oh, well, then how about the very unpopular Biden who won by the slimmest of margins last time. Surely there won't be a problem with running him again, will there? I talk to people on the other side. They recognize how vile Trump is, but, for some reason, hate Biden more. Yet the RNC and the DNC have decided these are to be our choices. (I'm voting for Biden.)
The very unpopular Clinton won the national popular vote. The very unpopular Biden has been sweeping the primaries with large margins. They hate Biden more because they have been lied to and programmed to do so. We have primaries, and both Clinton and Biden were elected thereby to be our candidates. As Trump has been. And I’m glad you’ll be voting for Biden. Me, too.
Dennis, I’m as frustrated as you. So you say “The Democrats put up…” yes and no. Senator Sherwood Brown of Ohio was testing the waters in 2015 and I was very excited about the prospect of a Brown presidency. Then when Biden was showing interest in 2015, the Clintons met him on their respective planes remember the infamous plane meeting? They offered Biden something to drop out. My thought was they offered Biden a lot of money devoted to cancer research since his son had recently died. We’ll never know. And Clinton became the candidate that couldn’t walk straight even literally. The moment at 9/11 services when Clinton almost fainted and needed help getting into the car. The Comey announcement of an investigation days before the election. That alone sank her. Then the Benghazi hearings when the repuklicans wore her down until she yelled, “What difference does it make” the repuklicans had their sound bite.
And then our nation took a dive and will most certainly end as we have known it in November if Grandpa Joe doesn’t pull it off. And I have my secret thoughts on that.
But looking philosophically, if trump wins and most certainly installs an autocratic-like regime, later, the pendulum will shift and once again we will have democracy. But what a price to pay. The price is so dear after only losing the protection offered to women under Row verses Wade. So much loss. Maybe 25 of 50 years from now, we will once again have our democracy. Oops, did I say I had secret thoughts? I lied.
As a matter of fact I do remember the infamous airplane meeting and that's not how it went down ai all. Check your facts.
Your "vote against the duopoly" got us to this. So thank you very much. You did want the Republicans in office, right?
No, actually, for me I'd rather have either the Libertarians or the Progressives in office. Both, with different ideals, want government that's best for the people. I'd like the opportunity to vote for them. (Ranked choice voting.) I hate Trump, the MAGA folks as much as anyone, but I really put the blame on Congress. This racist country elected a black Democrat because he promised to do something for the people. Fix health care. And asked Congress to get rid of the corporate health care mess and give us either, he said either, free markets (libertarian) or national health (progressive). Congress didn't do it, basically kept the most lucrative (for the industry) health care system intact and put a mandate on people who didn't like it. Obama was great, but his Democrat Congress created the outrage that gave us Trump. Those idiots who vote for Trump were probably upset when Congress bailed out the banks, instead of the people in the sub prime crisis, maybe upset with Congress siding with the credit card companies on usurious fees, etc. etc. The problem is the government isn't working for a lot of people, and Trump is brilliant at channelling that frustration into his own support. Oh he's a con, what's happening in this country is despicable, but just consider that a Trump supporter might be one who lost their house in subprime, is stuck with credit card debt they can't pay back and looking at bankruptcy over health care bills. (I am voting for Biden.)
Best example of how people on the same side can think as differently as people on opposite sides. I am another one who dreams of a progressive country, but I am pragmatic enough to smell bullschittery.
Jeri, I was ruminating on a long winded reply, but I like your answer better. Yes, common sense trumps bullschittery, which I believe is Trump's true middle name.
I ruminate a lot. Thank you
As far as the Libertarians, I view them as an empty shell. They have ideas, but no substance. Their "free" markets are not free, just predatory. Their platform says one thing, but leaves out a method to protect their positions as they kind of just want to rely on the goodness of people. Matthew Hongolts-Hetling "A Libertarian Walks into a Bear" is a great book on how their ideas would work. A suggested read for anyone that might lean that way.
Thank you, love the title. Ideas without some bit of substance are as useless as one who no longer breathes. As the wind says, there is no one here by that name…
I did vote for Nader and didn't live in a swing state. Biden wasn't my first choice but has been a very good surprise, all things considered. But none of that matters now. Let's throw away all of our old theories. This will still be the easiest choice I've ever made. There's a greater priority. Democracy itself is on the line.
The consequences indeed