Representative Liz Cheney (R-WY), whom the Republican House conference dumped as chair last week after she refused to kowtow to former president Trump, said some interesting things to Chris Wallace on Fox News Sunday this morning.
I have campaigned by writing postcards to voters to registered Democrats only, in a group that started with 17 writers for Ossoff in 2017 , based in Georgia, and now has about 120,000 writers in all 50 states. Studies show we move the needle one percent, which is not nothing. I have written in 115 campaign actions which gives you a look at who Democrats are running and who is winning , in every possible election from local to federal. The Democrats organized on the grassroots level , after the likes of Donald Trump was allowed into the WH, with great animation to flip six governorships and elect judges who ruled in the bogus attempts in the courts to overturn the will of the people. To win all that we did in 2020 and on Jan.5 and hold the line against death threats to our state officials, including threats at the governors mansion twenty minutes from my house, with honesty and dignity, we have shown that what Joe Biden seeks to put forth in a return to civility and constructive positivity is indeed possible. I am putting in the mail today postcards for a New Mexico special election to Congress. We campaign year round. We get to really know the states and the people running. It has been thrilling and meaningful. Our motto for 2022 is Democrats Deliver! We are not focused on what mob thug tactics are being used to bash the country to pieces, we are focused on being on the side of morality and upholding American ideals.
81.2 million Americans helped me. I planted my Victory Garden with postcards to voters because I could be creative and I can watch tv and listen to podcasts while I write. The truth rises to the top. Good trumps bad. Just like my parents did not expect to fight the evil that WW2 brought I did not expect to come out of retirement to full time activism. Our vote is our only means to change this situation. Everyone of us can do one little thing that we really enjoy to elect people who support the Constitution. My group turned around after the general election and wrote 2 million postcards for my hometown guys. What a victory that was in all of the danger that Trump brought to Georgia. Plus the pandemic was raging. You talk about insane. Armed militia threatened Brian Kemp at the governor’s mansion and felt justified and righteous to do it. Look at Michigan. One postcard at a time. One city council spot one school board. These postcards are completely original. I scribble so handwriting doesn’t matter. What sanity it gave me for years.
There are several good websites which provid targeted addresses and messages for those who purchase and mail postal cards on their own to use. Last year I used "Win the West" which recently changed its name to ActivateAmerica.com .
That link (activateamerica.com) seems to be dead. A search for "win the west" on DuckDuckGo only turns up a Facebook page for Maricopa County Young Republicans! Did you mean Flip the West? I found a link to their website when I added "activate america" to my search, but Firefox detected a potential security threat, so I did not proceed to the site. I see that Flip the West does have an ActBlue donation page: https://secure.actblue.com/donate/flipthewest
I don’t know how my link was changed to something I didn’t write. The organization is called Post Cards to Voters. Their site is postcardstovoters.com Hopefully this time it works.
Thank you for your good work. A group of HCR Substackers has formed to support community and activism for democracy. Join your fellow Floridians! For more info, you can email:
Thank you for the update, Mary. Because you talked this up before the special election in GA, I wrote 100 postcards in the weeks leading up to Jan. 5. I just sent my email as an approved writer to sign up for more addresses for the VA legislative campaign because of your current post! You rock!!!
Mary, I’d also like to know what organization you are writing postcards with. I think we are all trying to find the most effective ways to help. Thanks.
Pansy, Google postcards to voters. Tony the Democrat. Read our New York Times article I think from 2018. It is easy and so much fun. Virginia has state elections on November 2, 2021. The GOP is completely off the rails totally. We cannot lose these elections. Besides you support the post office!
Organized efforts to send postcards to Democrats are effective and are something almost anyone can do. Most experts say in-person canvassing, especially by locals, is the most effective action. Not everyone can do that, but many can contribute money to organizations that provide necessary support to local organizations that do this work. Fair Fight, Voto Latino, and Walk the Walk USA are some examples, and many smaller organizations emulate their methods, often through local chapters of SwingLeft and Indivisibles.org.
Postcards and texts. YES. Grassroots efforts work. Im working on 200 postcards for the NJ primary. Democrats must focus on these Grassroots efforts like our lives depended on them and they do. Love the young people running the efforts in Georgia. We made a difference on Jan 5th.
"Now the Republican Party runs the risk of alienating voters it desperately needs as it faces a scandal of sex and drugs, a profoundly troubled election “audit,” accusations that party members are afraid to speak out because they fear for their lives, and suggestions from the former third-ranking official in the House Republican conference that the first official in the conference should be subpoenaed."
Joe Voter, and especially Joe Non-Voter, almost certainly hasn't heard of any of this. I play drums, and there's a guy I jam with. I like him a lot. He also has Fox News on all day. Or his wife does. Anyway, these folks COULD be changeable if they had a better media diet. But they will never hear about Matt Gaetz. Or anything other than the glory of dear leader.
Honestly, my friends would be better off not watching any news at all than watching Fox News. Maybe that's the best we can hope for. Then they might vote on what's really happening in their lives instead of what Fox tells them is happening in their lives.
Several studies have confirmed that a person who watches no news is better-informed than a person who watches Faux Snooze or any of the other Conservative Entertainment Inc. propaganda.
Fox News viewers really should practice better informational hygiene. At the risk of using an excessively low metaphor, perhaps we should start mailing out free, head-sized condoms to Republican primary voters. "Safe sex begins with the ears!"
Agree, that the country’s media diet is a critical element (possibly the most critical) in re-establishing a level of civil discourse and a functioning congress. As there’s probably no silver bullet, small steps are important (and money is always important).
Fox is a business and they are included in most of our monthly cable/streaming bundles, and they get a healthy revenue stream from our monthly fees. Find a way to stop subsidizing Fox. The majority of Americans do not watch Fox News; but the majority of Americans pay for Fox through media bundling fees. KICK FOX OFF THE DOLE!
I called my cable company and they just laughed when I told them I didn't want to pay for fox with my cable listing. I have to dump the whole thing (and I can't due to my husband's obsession with sports.)
wondering how to go about that. Is there a more specific ask than that? Like others here I have to "compromise" with other family, but when my children were growing I would not allow that crap into my home. Still I would love nothing more than getting cable out of my home. I've argued & fought for years with cable companies re just bundling a package for homes that only want educational, art, science, public broadcasting. How can one question "brainwashing" when so many homes let that crap continually broadcast into their minds.
If your internet service is robust enough, I'd just recommend getting rid of cable altogether. I did so about five years ago and haven't missed it. For a long while, live sports were difficult to access, but now with a subscription, I can get what few sports I follow (Olympics, Wimbleton, etc.).
My ability to access news is actually greater, since I can roam far more in-depth, original reporting. And I've become virtually allergic to commercials -- how could I ever stand them before? As for Fox News? Who cares?
That said, I was never able to protect my children from either the internet or cable. I'm quite certain that they've been damaged in myriad ways by the experience of growing up with the damn screen, something I was never able to prevent without completely uncoupling them from the rest of American society.
Like Peri, I called my cable provider to ask about packages that don’t include fox; met with a silent pause, then a chuckle and a “no” that sounded more like “duh.” The difference for me is that my cable fee is part of my HOA fee. If I chose another type of provider I’d still have to pay my share of the group fee for cable coming into my condo - hence trying to “hurt” fox only hurts me.
Where we live, the only source for reliable internet is comcast/xfinity. We have tried to find other ISPs, as we don't even have a television and use our computers for entertainment streaming as well as for internet, but this area doesn't have as many options as we had when we lived in Seattle. Some of our neighbors have satellite dishes from a dish company that offers internet along with TV, but the ones I've checked out offer such slow speeds that we have stayed with the big cable company. Heavy sigh. Trying to limit our service to internet only means a big conversation every time the current contract runs out - no, we don't want this cable package, no, we don't need that add-on - we just want high-speed internet, thank you!
I noticed my father-in-law became a little bit less rabid a "conservative" when his wife (who is my age, and I thank Providence for her every day because she is dealing with his current health issues and not my wife or my sister-in-law) insisted that Fox not be on in the house.
He is one of the most perfect samples of white male privilege's that I can think of, and his absolute denial of systemic racism is stunning.
Paul, Those lines of Heather's that you referred to I think have more to do with the death of the party, not 'Joe Voter'. I think your friends and many like them are emotionally attached to Trump and what they watch on Fox. The messages they are getting taps into their hearts. That is important to remember, but it isn't whole story. There are other forces in reality and in a majority of people, which appear to be stronger. This is ugly, difficult and not over.
I think that the message taps into their collective amygdalae rather than their hearts. They are wired for fear of "other", and what Faux feeds them pleases their brains in a very damaging way.
Except for a very few, people are not without heart. I have heard 'his' supporters say they love him. Fear is not the only emotion. The folks we are talking about believe that they finally found a savior, and he gives them permission to 'go wild!' I don't doubt that they have been waiting to destroy. The Republicans have targeted and embellished the targets.
I disagree. They will hear of it. What is unfortunate is the extreme that is occurring. The “Samson alternative” as TC describes means many casualties.
💯 agree! Maybe they’ll turn Fox off once they see in real time the wheels of justice and prosperity making fools of Fox??? Maybe I’m forever an optimist?
Healthy alternatives to Fox. There are alternative sources of news info (e.g., podcasts on YouTube). “The Hill – Rising” with Saager and Ball—a conservative and a progressive who are honest, civil, and searching for truthful answers while not allowing any politician from either party to get away with nonsense. Also, there is Jimmy Dore on “The Jimmy Dore Show” (though the language may be a bit rough for sensitive ears). Further, Matt Taibbi on “Useful Idiots”. And there are a number of other worthwhile podcasts discussing policies and political issues.
I can see how they would. I've read that he was impressed by successful speculators/investors and wished he was in that club. IMHO, Churchill's real value to England during WWII (1939-45 for the British) was when he stayed publicly vocal in resisting the Nazis, and he served as a beacon in keeping up British esprit during WWII. My father met him a few times during the fighting in Italy (1943-45). Dad was a young American officer on General (later Field Marshall) Alexander's staff for two years. Alexander commanded all Allied forces in Italy in the Anglo-American 15th Army Group. In my father's considered opinion, "General Alexander was perhaps the finest soldier in the war." He was Churchill's favorite general and was called in to save situations (e.g., Dunkirk, Burma, North Africa). Also, Eisenhower idolized Alexander. I better stop now as I get carried away with talk of WWII and the Mediterranean Theater. You might enjoy seeing some historic photos of the period on my website: www.buckandbernice.com.
As people remarked about their bingo cards over the past year, who'd have thought that today's would have as heroes of the day, Liz Cheney, a guy named Stephen Richer, and the Maricopa County Republican election officials. Heroes of the day for stepping up as the loyal opposition a two party system needs to maintain a healthy democracy.
I believe when there is a traitor at the top of the food chain, exposure of it takes on a most random aspect because the normal channels in place have been compromised.
It's interesting that "mob" has multiple meanings in the Republican Party. It's a party run like a crime family with Godfather Trump. And, it's a mob of gun toting insurrectionist proud white boys and girls beating up police and trashing our Capitol. And it's an undignified undisciplined group of poorly formed men and women who play at being elected representatives where proficient well informed capable men and women should be conducting our public business.
Just because the Republican Party may be exploding does not mean they are not deadly dangerous. Here's an analogy: After the Battle of Leyte Gulf in October 1944, the Imperial Japanese Navy was unable to undertake another open ocean offensive action. Yet, between November 1944 and the end of July 1945, they inflicted the greatest casualties and losses the U.S. Navy experienced in the whole war through the suicidal Kamikazes, to the point that at the end of June following the Okinawa campaign, Admiral Nimitz, the American commander in the Pacific, was forced to tell the US Joint Chiefs that the Navy could not support the planned invasion of Japan because they would be unable to sustain the expected losses. (and no, it wasn't the A-bombs that made the Japanese surrender, though they liked to tell us that lie after the war to make us happy)
Nutbag extremists, faced with defeat, are almost always happy to take "the Samson alternative" and pull the temple down around them rather than voluntarily surrender.
That's true about Hitler too. As defeat became clearer, Hitler conscripted younger and younger cohorts of Hitler Youth--as young as 10 years old--who'd been brainwashed from young childhood with repeated oaths to die for their "father" Der Führer. In addition to this zealous energy, the soldiers were amped up with meth.
Thank you, Christine. From this History Channel article:
“Developed by the Temmler pharmaceutical company, based in Berlin, Pervitin was introduced in 1938 and marketed as a magic pill for alertness and an anti-depressive, among other uses. It was briefly even available over the counter. A military doctor, Otto Ranke, experimented with Pervitin on 90 college students and decided, based on his results, that the drug would help Germany win the war. Using Pervitin, the soldiers of the Wehrmacht could stay awake for days at a time and march many more miles without resting.”
This is from Huffpost but Ellie’s comment about meth use by Nazi soldiers brought this article to mind. It’s a parallel to Trump’s base. I was startled by the article.
While I haven't checked the sources, my LE training indicated that pure methamphetamine was a by-product of the production of mustard gas used by Germany in WWI. My quick Google search (>2 minutes) couldn't find a good source for that, although there was conversation about the results of phosphorous gas released in meth production based on the old P2P process the second "P" is phosphorus) and not the ephedrine process (which is the current favorite).
Alcohol has long served the same purpose in "motivating" soldiers to fight, and sometimes to commit atrocities. Also, the US military in Vietnam was among the most drug-addled in history.
Ellie I learned something new today— I had no idea about meth or the conscription of 10 year olds. Hitler was such a nut job fanatic that it must have been torturous for him to lose. He died fairly easily with the poison and Eva by his side —and think of all the waves of suffering he created. We only had idjt 4 years and look at the terrorism he stirred up.
Yes. As the available population of healthy young adult Germans diminished, Hitler conscripted younger and younger, and older and older men, including those previously deferred for a medical disability.
What made the Japanese surrender was the Soviet entry into the war on August 9. The Japanese had stripped their Manchurian army of troops and equipment, and sent them to Kyushu to face the expected US invasion. On August 9, the records of the Japanese Supreme War Council show all interest was on the Soviet invasion - the bombing of Nagasaki isn't even mentioned. The Soviets planned to have Manchuria and Sakhalin Island under their control by the end of August, and to mount an invasion of Hokkaido at the end of September - 6 weeks before the US invasion (which the Navy couldn't support). The Japanese knew they had no defenses in the north. They also had information of what happened in Germany at the end and in the months after the German surrender, and didn't want that in Japan. Had they held off, the Soviets would likely have taken all of Hokkaido and most, if not all, of Honshu before the US invasion.
Additionally, the Japanese were well aware of the Soviet desire for revenge of the defeat in 1905.
I spoke with two Marines who were leaders in the 6th Division. In September, they visited the beach they would have landed on in Kyushu, saw the defenses the Japanese had, spoke to the leaders of the defending troops, and concluded they would never have made it off the beaches.
So the Japanese surrendered to us (with a secret assurance the Emperor would not be removed). Ever after they told us they did so because of the A-bombs, and used the bombs ever after to portray themselves as the victims rather than the perpetrators of the Pacific War. To this day, Japanese students learn in school that Japan went to war to save Asia from the White European Empires, that they won every battle but had to make "strategic retreats," and then - atom bombs! They have never taken responsibility for the Rape of Nanking, the Bataan Death March, the Railway of Death in Thailand (that story told in The Bridge on the River Kwai), the "comfort women," or any of their other atrocities. Every Japanese prime minister (the Liberal Democratic Party -actually the conservative party - was founded by former members of the wartime government; in Germany, their opposite numbers were banned from political activity) has visited Yauskuni Shrine, where the ashes of the executed war criminals were secretly returned in 1952.
All the talk about "peaceful" Japan is hooey. The current prime minister and his predecessor were and are both committed to removing the "pacifist" clause from the postwar constitution.
The only participant in this conversation more surprised than you was me. I had "the bomb saved your father's life" drummed into me from so far back I cannot remember (he was sunk by the kamikazes at Okinawa and ordered back for the invasion.) He was so certain he would die he sat down and wrote me a letter - I was 1 at the time - telling me who he was, why he wanted to have a son in the middle of a war, and what he hoped would become of me, which I found going through his papers after his death. All kinds of guy felt they had been "saved by the bomb," and it was a lie the government was happy to spread far and wide, because it allowed them to develop "nuclear diplomacy" (there's an oxymoron). I had heard this argument before that it wasn't the bomb and dismissed it, but when I was researching Tidal Wave, I came into possession of a translated copy of the minutes of the Imperial War Council for August 9, and all they were discussing all day was the Russian invasion. You have to remember the Japanese and Russians fought a war in 1904-05 that humiliated the Russians, there had been bad blood with them ever since, and here they were coming through the back door that wasn't locked or defended. I went into it in detail in the book because I knew other people wouldn't believe it either.
Great question. If dropping the A-Bomb didn't force unconditional surrender, why did the US drop it (twice), then what did? Hiroshima was not a military center. The city was 98% civilian. It was used as a "terror attack" and would be illegal today.
There's no excusing the bombs. Most particularly there's no excuse for Nagasaki "the forgotten bomb." Nagasaki had been for close to 400 years the center of opposition to Imperial Japan. It was largely Christian had had maintained Christianity in the 200 years the religion was officially suppressed in Japan. The bomb was dropped there because all the other targets were "weathered in" and the alternative was the crew going home having dropped the most expensive bomb in history in the ocean. As it was, they made three runs over the city and couldn't bomb visually - the bombardier finally said "I can see" (he couldn't) and they dropped. Ground Zero was supposed to be the Mitsubishi aircraft factory - instead, it was the Urakami Catholic Church, the largest Christian church in Asia, built with the donations of parishioners after the religion was unbanned in the Meiji Restoration.
To me, the people of Nagasaki are the most admirable I ever met. After the war, they decided they wanted to dedicate the city to "international brotherhood," that such a thing as happened to them would never happen again. To this day, if you were to go there, a citizen would approach you and ask if they might buy you tea, or even a meal, offer to take you around the city (you can visit the house down the peninsula where Puccini wrote "Madame Butterfly"). All very un-Japanese behavior. On the other hand, if you go to Hiroshima, they will do their best to make you feel guilty.
If you want a "terror attack," the one you want is the firebombing of Tokyo on March 9, 1945, in which 500 B-29s dropped 5,000 incendiaries each, burning out 12 square miles of the city completely and killing over 100,000 people - more than died in either A-bomb attack. My aerobatics instructor back in the 70s had been one of those pilots and he told me that 30 years later he could still smell the burning human flesh - they bombed from 1,500 feet.
There's also the firebombing of Kobe-Oasaka. When I first went to Japan in 1963, we visited the port. A friend and I went ashore and managed to get lost walking around. Toward dusk, we turned a corner and confronted the sight of (what I learned later was) the last 1,000 acres that had not been rebuilt. It was black. There was nothing there but black, and a few twisted girders. I was immediately reminded of the cover of an Ace double s-f novel I had at home, with a cover painting of a scene after World War III. That was 19 years after the bombing.
Thanks TC. Your generous posts really aid in seeing through the usual historic mumbo-jumbo that governments provide and history books report. It is helpful to hear facts. I have read two books on the bombings and was interested by the fact that the people of Hiroshima never imagined they would be harmed. Though the fire bombing was extensive in cities around Hiroshima, inhabitants didn't know why, but they had not been fire-bombed. As always there is the military or manufacturing to strike and but then there are the civilians who face the consequences. According to your interpretation, the bombings were unnecessary, a violation. You don't say this, I don't want to put words in your mouth, but the use of the Bombs was only to show US strength. It feels like pure vengeance. I know there were terrible cruelties exercised by the Japanese military, but knowing that there would be the loss of hundreds of thousands of civilians, not military, but civilians, when there was already an awareness of the coming Russian movements and the fact that the Japanese knew the end was coming for them, and STILL to release those nuclear bombs is enraging.
There has been much argument over many years as to the real reason the bombs were employed, with much speculation that it was a demonstration to Stalin of what the US was capable of doing. Most of the Manhattan Project scientists had come aboard to create a weapon to destroy Hitler. When that war ended without the bomb being ready, most of them thought it wouldn't be used. The fact that the upper reaches of the US government and military were aware they had been checked by the Japanese in the plans to invade the Home Islands, the bombs may well have been vengeance. The former US ambassador to Japan before the war was only able after much argument to get the ancient Japanese capitol of Kamakura, the heart of Japanese culture, taken off the target list. There was a third bomb that arrived on Tinian the week after Nagasaki, that would likely have been used against Tokyo had the Japanese not surrendered when they did.
When I got to Okinawa the summer of 1963, 18 years after the end of the battle, I made a few day trips to the old battlefields in the southern end of the island. All was still ruins, and one was advised not to step off the paths, for fear of stepping on unexploded ordnance still in the ground. As it was, there was no part of the pathways where you could step that you would not dislodge a bullet casing, or even a shattered piece of bone (which I did once). 100,000 Japanese troops and Okinawans died there. Today, Shuri Castle has been completely rebuilt and many of the old trench lines filled in, but I'm told people still stay on the footpaths.
It would require some thought for me to choose a preference between the nutbag extremists getting what they want (which is government by white people, for white people, like the one we had until about 1964) or pulling the temple down. Avoiding both would be great but that will requre a monumental effort and some luck to boot.
Representative Cheney has sounded the alarm and calls for McCarthy's subpoena, also pointing out that many congressional Republicans and state officials fear for their lives. Considering the contradiction between McCarthy's current statements and his statements during and shortly following the January 6 insurrection, Cheney's advice should be heeded. I am not a Republican and never have been but we, as HRC asserts, need a healthy opposition party, a "loyal" opposition, to serve as a check on both parties. "Loyal" to what? To the Constitution and the rule of law. Our democracy hangs in the balance.
Congress has the power to declare war, to send our youth out to die for their country..if these Republicans do not have the courage to tell the truth, to stand up and protect this democracy and do their job out of fear they may lose their jobs or be threatened by Trolls of their own making they do not deserve the jobs they hold. Everyday the young women of "The Squad" face death threats and yet hold their heads up and work for the people...what cowards the GOP are.
Yes, the courage and backbone of the women of color in Congress is something we don't speak enough about. If only a quarter of the Rs had half of their strength and integrity, we wouldn't be in this mess.
This version of "Woman in Charge" is sung by the Best Witches Women's Chorus. (Musically, it can't compare with Keb's performances posted previously, but it's a fun listen to hear all these mostly old, mostly white ladies singing it.) (I'm a mostly old mostly white lady, so I can say that.)
Understand that Republicans do not care one bit that you call them cowards. They’ll laugh to themselves, and continue doing exactly what they’re doing. As far as Trump’s Republicans are concerned, democracy is for suckers.
I can't wrap my head around Liz Cheney admitting yesterday that she voted for iDJT in 2020. She said, "Well, I wasn't going to vote for Biden." Egads, how sick is our society that someone knowing and understanding how corrupt iDJT is still voted for him? She famously voted to impeach him. Anybody else astounded by this?
It helps to remind us that she is one big ball of political calculation. Everything she says and does must be filtered through the understanding that she is looking out for Liz Cheney first and foremost. Not that there is necessarily anything wrong with that, but imputing noble motives to her actions is an exercise in self-deception.
Yes, along with all the other cowardly Republicans who thought it was a better idea to vote for a dead person rather than vote for Biden (hello Larry Hogan, Mitt Romney, Mike Dewine).
Not really. Don't forget, she voted with and rubber-stamped T***p's policies 92% of the time. She's another of the "love the sinner, hate the sin" kind of approach when it came to DJT, so flipping the voting lever FOR him is hardly surprising. That kind of mentality has governed a lot of the support for T***p, and it is still pretty formidable. At the end of the day, Cheney is really very far to the right politically, and, like the rest of nut-base electorate of the GOP, they will vote party first and foremost every time. They've swallowed the "radical socialist agenda" shtick hook, line, and sinker. I'm not as optimistic as HCR in thinking that suddenly the "scales will fall from the eyes" of the GOP voting base. They're gonna vote "R" regardless of whatever shenanigans their leadership is up to. They did it before and they'll do it again. That Cheney "woke up and smelled the coffee" (wow...I'm using lots of quotes this morning...) is laudable, but symptomatic of the ongoing rot in the Republican party. I still think the actual voters out here in "Les Styx" will be the last to flee the sinking ship. Don't "misunderestimate" (my favourite Bush-ism from W) the amount of blind allegiance and ignorance out here.
If we think of those millions who are blindly allegiant and ignorant as brainwashed cult members (which is my own perception, I confess), the "scales" will not miraculously "fall from their eyes." They are more likely to sacrifice themselves first in a desperate attempt to "save" the country for their dear leader. This is what scares me. This and losing our rights to vote and to having our votes COUNT.
I think it makes us all pretty itchy to see a politician whose deepest political beliefs and motives we abhor doing something we feel obliged to grudgingly admire at a certain level. However, she is no advocate for the people and I'd feel no safer going on a camping/hunting trip with her than I would with her father.
I would like to know more about why and how they feared for their lives. These are folks that should have very strong security around them. What did they know about? Does DT have some sort of goon squad taking out his political and other enemies? R Stone and co? DeVos’ mercenary brother E Prince? Why wouldn’t the FBI be on this? Surely these Senators could ask for and receive help?
They are afraid of the armed Second Amendment loving crazies who voted for them. There is a strongly violent undercurrent in their social media. Trump energizes and validates it constantly with matter of fact references to “how we used to deal with these problems” and the like. The message many of the members got on January 6 is that their status as Republican elites won’t save them or their families from the mob. Many of these members are desperately clinging to the tiger they decided to ride. While it’s hard not to point out their folly it doesn’t make the riders’ fear less palpable.
HCR’s observations about the role of oversight reminded me of meetings I attended in the mid-2000s with Iraqis who had been selected to be Inspectors General in different agencies of their newly established government. The meetings were cast as a chance to offer them our experience with how to conduct government oversight, but it wasn’t possible for us to answer their real question, which was how to engage in oversight in the face of death threats and murder. Many of them returned to Iraq to be killed by one or another faction or corrupt minister’s thugs. Ultimately all that protects any of us is the rule of law. The fear of the Republican members is a pale copy of what things look like when that rule breaks down.
“They are afraid of the armed Second Amendment loving crazies who voted for them. There is a strongly violent undercurrent in their social media. Trump energizes and validates it constantly...” Agreed!
This makes sense as to what they were afraid of, but what total cowards that makes them, as they aid and abet that behavior towards their own political opponents.
They are also afraid of losing their jobs. What disturbs me so much right now, is that over the last four years, many of the more “reasonable” ones have left Congress, leaving the increasingly radical ones behind. (I put reasonable in quotes because I personally don’t think any of them really are reasonable, including Liz Cheney.)
Sounds to me that the former president did not choose to use a “goon squad” or SS as Hitler did. Worse. He used the American people to do the deed. The insurrection proved that. It is only fortunate happenstance that many Legislators were not physically harmed or killed that day.
And we now see that it is the American people who must defeat the Republican party’s worst laid plans......at the voting booth. It appears the nefarious plans make that an even more daunting task than it was in 2020. However, the truth is the best weapon always.
A most sincere and heartfelt thank you to HCR and this stream as being an example of that.
I have no doubt that if the most crazed groups of that Jan.6 mob had found Mike Pence that day they would have seriously hurt or even killed him in order to stop him from ratifying the vote. If they had found Pelosi they would have done the same thing because they hate the woman. There is good reason to be afraid for life, limb and family.
Agreed. Two years ago while waiting for an X-ray at a VA hospital I had to leave the waiting room & move down the hall due to two older, white, male veterans loudly ranting about how they “couldn’t wait to see that bitch Pelosi’s face beaten to a bloody pulp”. Both said they’d pay to watch that happen. (I reported it. Was told they were “just exercising their freedom of speech”.)
Had the insurrection been more of a military assault and less chaos mob I think we would have seen several Democrats + Pence murdered that day.
Think for a moment of what poisoned the minds of those two "older, white, male veterans" and those of millions of similarly inclined Americans. The battle to save democracy is a battle against ignorance and gullibility, a hard one to win, given social media and the First Amendment.
I dislike intensely that you felt you had to move and that your reporting was met with the “first amendment excuse”. That is ridiculous. Being verbally abusive and threatening in a common area in a public place is not acceptable due to any amendment.
THEY ARE THE ONES THAT NEEDED TO MOVE OR BE ASKED TO MOVE.
Diane: Free speech is one of those rights provided in a democracy which can serve as the seeds of its own demise. It has happened before. A friend recently chastised me for pessimistically quoting Alexander Pope's couplet:
"Hope springs eternal in the human breast,
Man never IS but always TO BE blessed."
She is one of those progressives eternally hoping for the success of American democracy and insists it can happen once true believers in democracy find a plan to enable that to happen. So I added two more lines to Pope's poetry:
Right that makes sense. We know he’s incited violence over and over against political enemies so maybe they were afraid of their own cult members with their militarized arsenals turning on them at 45’s behest. Lily-livered!
I wouldn't be surprised if the "goon squad" didn't exist as he wouldn't be the first gangster to hole up in Florida...Meyer Lansky and also the Trafficante Family were particularly efficient in making there threats particularly believable and effective from their Miami and Tampa bases. Their "killer" bullets are now more likely to be skeletons in the closet rather than bodies dumped in the woods. Trump and his goons, in 4 years in the White House, probably perfected the "Edgar Hoover Technique" and built files on all the Republican's missdeads and "favours done" which would force any recalcitrant underling to commit Harakiri should they be revealed on Fox News or even CNN.....and attract very close attention from a newly clean DOJ.
Yes, I seem to recall Stormy Daniels saying she was threatened in a parking lot by thugs, so it wouldn't surprise me, given his father's (and his own) long-standing ties with the mob, that he would use such tactics. If dozens of senators, however, fear for their lives, I am inclined to think they fear their conspiracy-crazed constituents.
Dont forget Trump's comment during the 2016 campaign that he could kill someone and still be elected. I wouldnt be a bit surprised if he hasnt already done that.
I remember McConnell showing up “black and blue” and his only comment was “nothing to be concerned about”, black and blue hand and punch in the mouth black and blue. I’ve always wondered if he was “roughed up”. Anybody else wonder about it?
A medical issue could have been a fall_-I worked in geriatrics for years and saw some very nasty bruises from falls, especially if a resident was on a blood thinner..
The thought that someone might have hit him crossed my mind, but dismissed. Thugs know how to rough people up without leaving visible marks. Face & hand say fall to me.
I too wonder if any of this is being investigated or if it’s all being shrugged off as “oh, that’s just trump” - something too many Democrats have done far too often, in my opinion.
Yes, I am surprised that Heather emphasized this; I don't find it very credible. That they were fearing for their political lives is easy to believe--they think they can't win without the MAGA base. But I don't honestly believe they were physically threatened.
If you recall, the Republican Georgia election officials who certified the election and defended the process had to have police protection because of the death threats and doxxing that occurred. Christine Blasey Ford had to go into HIDING with her family because of death threats against herself and her family--which included the publication of her home address and phone numbers of her entire family. I am not surprised they are terrified by the threats they themselves created by hyping up the Big Lie and tugging the forelock to the Cheeto. When you have a lot of people with a lot of guns and a demagogue who has no compunction about ramping up the temperature, you have a recipe for terrorism. My thought is that this demonstrates exactly why the former guy should never be allowed on social media sites ever again.
Another official needing protection is Katie Hobbs, the AZ Dem Sec'y of State (for having had the nerve to certify the Presidential Election andcall ing out the Cyber Ninja BS (She calls it the "Fraudit"!). The Republican Gov. Doucy ordered it.
What surprised me with all you have just said is why members of Congress are not doing anything to protect their peers. Surely they understand that at any time, things could change they would be the ones being threatened. I don't understand this part of it all.
I have no hard evidence, but given the former guy's penchant for mob-like control, physical threats could be part of his desperate, last-gasp clinging.
I have no doubt he has tried some strong-arm tactics, but do experienced politicians really take them seriously? I honestly don't know, but would be surprised if they do. Besides, he doesn't need to. Those who have opposed him have almost universally been sidelined, at least so far. Liz Cheney is betting that influence is coming to an end.
With the knowledge at how unhinged his followers are, I certain that most any reasonable person witnessing the shenanigans at his rallies, the street gang leaders he has hosted at the White House and the public events involving them at other public events such as protests, marches and the official acts he has had coordinated involving DHS and other governmental law enforcement agencies, would have reason to fear violence in one form or another. When you consider that A-List celebrities must hire security to protect them from overzealous and unhealthy fixated fans, they generally have the income to do so. I don't think the average congressman/woman does though.
I really created something of a firestorm here without intending to. I agree with everything you say but consider it unlikely that Congresspeople are making choices based on threats of physical violence. If we truly are in an era where our republic is dominated by Mafia tactics then we are entirely lost. I choose to believe this is not true. It's clear they are now and always have been acting from self-interest--in pursuit of greed, power, and job security. But I find shocking the degree of cynicism required to think that even the most craven of our lawmakers are legislating based on the threat of physical violence. I have also seen no evidence that this is so. It's not like this is something that would have escaped the notice of the New York Times or the Washington Post, not to mention the FBI.
I did not claim that Democratic congress-people are creating legislation out of fear. However I can't wonder that HR1 is a response to the situation coming out of the last election and the ensuing redstate legislature passing new electoral rules. Additionally, I am certain that Republican politicians have walked back statements related to 1/6 out of fear (look at Lapdog Lindsey's change of attitude after being confronted at the airport following 1/6). People like Elise Stefanik --she for example is just acting out of craven power hunger. Additionally, one cannot deny the record number of retirements in the Republican Congress and Senate of moderate/traditional pols in the last few years.
Our Governor in Michigan and our Secretary of State were physically threatened, and received death threats. I believe Republican Congress folks received the same real threats.
Reid, you silly, foolish person. I personally know (as in friends) several elected officials who have received death threats and some who have experienced near misses (not counting the little stuff like vandalism, attempted car rammings, etc.) It is not uncommon for elected officials (and appointed, for that matter) to need physical guards because of attempted assaults. You "honestly don't believe they were physically threatened"? Really?
My Rep Ayanna Pressley is forced to deal with numerous threats to her physical safety. Remember Jan 6? Someone disabled the alarm system in her office, probably as part of a larger conspiracy to harm her and multiple others. And by harm I don't mean a few bruised wrists. The worst of the filthy insurrectionist trash were there to assault, rape, torture and lynch their targets. Once Bulldog Garland's DOJ has assembled the evidence, hopefully charges of conspiracy to commit murder are included along with sedition and treason, not just the routine domestic crimes like assault, criminal trespass, etc.
I am thinking of Representative Jim Clyburn, who when interviewed just after the attack (I think the very next day), was still reeling from his close encounter because the insurrectionists had found their way to his very door - in that labyrinthian building where few would even know how to find his office WITHOUT DIRECTIONS. I am thinking of the maps that were in the hands of insurrectionists. I am remembering the representatives who were hiding in the gallery and being told by one of their own how to put on gas masks. I am remembering Nancy Pelosi's staff hiding in a conference room, in the dark, hearing the insurrectionists literally banging on the DOOR. I am remembering Senator Romney being led to safety within FEET of dangerous insurrectionists who were there to hang the VP and hogtie whomever they could find. I am thinking of the video of insurrectionists in which one woman could be seen and heard giving instructions on which doors and windows led where. I am remembering the reports of GUIDED TOURS of the Capitol on January 5th, when the Capitol was CLOSED to all but authorized persons and employees. I am reminded that one Representative who was threatened by MTG had to ask for a different office and another had an insulting and degrading sign placed on the wall outside her door. I am thinking of the recently released video of MTG stalking AOC before she (MTG) was even installed in office and how she stalked and threatened David Hogg. I am thinking of the attempts on Governor Gretchen Whitmer's life and the mob that surrounded her HOME. I am thinking of the Trump Train right here in Texas that tried to run VP Harris' campaign bus off a major interstate. I am thinking that these Congressional servants ARE living now in a heightened state of fear, not only from deranged and out of control Trumplican supporters, but also from members within their own midst. We hear from Representative Swalwell and former assistant director for counterintelligence for the FBI Frank Figliuzzi as well as Representative Adam Schiff on an almost regular basis these days reporting on the dangers of serving in office, even with the deposed tyrant hiding out in FL. I honestly don't think most of these individuals came to office with the understanding that they might need extra protection for their personal safety or that their homes and families might be targeted by crazies. If this is so, then why on earth would any sane person run for office?
Yeh. Plus the not very active search for Pelosi, also goaded by TFG. One could say both of those ongoing events went a little beyond "physical threatening". Both were downright terrifying to watch, let alone being the target. They indicate that there likely was a lot of more subtle bureaucratic posturing (verbal and physical) by members of the 45 administration going on behind the scenes long before Jan 6, too.
I didn't make myself clear. I think they are threatened all the time, but that they take it in stride--it comes with the territory. But do I think they are cowering in fear and making policy decisions based on physical threat? I do not.
By the way, name calling and shaming have no place here. This is a forum for civil discussion.
I'd delete the first sentence if I could to salve your feelings, but the rest would still stand, Reid. You appear to be truly unaware of what is going on. Yes, some politicians do make policy decisions based on intimidation, which often implies physical threat. There is blackmail. There is manipulation. There is corruption. What amazes me is how much actually gets done in spite of it all, because there are still people who will get up and do the work IN SPITE OF IT. Our system is still functioning, but just barely. What Stacey Adams pulled off in Georgia gives me hope- and she endured threats of physical violence for it.
I personally, as a representative of a state agency, have experienced it. My governor stood up for me, but for a while my life was very uncomfortable. Yet I was a small fry. I simply had the gumption to stand up to a man who thought he could intimidate me into backing down from something he didn't like.
It is not enough to dismiss this kind of thing with "they take it in stride--it comes with the territory". No, they do not take it in stride, nor should they have to. It affects their lives, their families, their ability to work. People resign because of it, or choose not to run for a seat they would easily win, because they have had enough. One representative in the state in which I now live had to withdraw from reelection campaign and move to get away from constant harassment. This is not as uncommon as you may think. We lose good statesmen who leave because they are unable to get things done in an atmosphere in which antagonism and threats are constantly in the air. In several state legislatures this past year, actual threats were made on the floors of the legislature. On the floor. Public record. I witnessed one such. It shocked me then. I've seen worse since. I have little patience when people who should be more aware prefer to believe either that this does not happen, or that it is "just the way things are". In a society based on the rule of law, one in which decisions are made in places where civil discussion is expected and guided by rules, there is no room for intimidating tactics meant to instill fear and shape policy decisions. To then make excuses for the fact that this exists by dismissing them as "coming with the territory" is simply not acceptible. You may choose to believe otherwise. That is how we ended up with Trump.
I can see that you feel strongly about this, which does not give you license to be abusive. I don't need my feelings salved; I'm a big boy. I have already engaged in extensive mea culpa for my comments and have apologized here. If you choose not to acknowledge that, that is certainly your right. I stand by the revised version of what I said.
I do other things, Reid. I did not see this post until hours later. And now you are miffed about that. Have not seen the mea culpa you reference, but good for you. I hope you managed to do it without feeling the need to sling yet another stinger. Quit reading thing into other people's posts. It may help you feel righteous, but does not help your cause. Can we drop this now?
I have long thought that blackmail was one of Trump's foremost tools for the control he has over certain people. Some of the things coming out seem to support that. Look at the scandals that are not directly related to political scams. They often come out after someone becomes a liability to the former guy and his sycophants. And I have little doubt that TFG, like other mob bosses with thugs at hand, would only have to indicate that someone was a problem. There has been real fear in WaDC for a while, and it is a release to see people standing up to it. Sometimes the best thing to do, instead of ducking and hiding, is to stand out in the open where the threat become obvious. Obvious is easier to see, easier to fight.
We call that leadership. To stand up for what is right, call out the wrong, and suffer for it. Offer solutions, create a plan through reason & compromise, audit and adjust the plan as needed. Everything else is just noise, and those noisemakers need to be voted out & sent home.
It's credible, Reid. Read the post I just put up from Jeff Greenfield's Politico article - and go read the whole thing. I'm sure with the nuts out there who go after me that GOP office holders have indeed received "credible threats."
I understand the threats both physical and endangering their jobs but if elected officials can't or choose not to do anything to stop the threats then aren't we all pretty much lost? They have the option of secret meeting with the DOJ and can pass information to the FBI unlike regular citizens. So if they are leaving office or giving into the threats then what chance is there to stop them?
They need us to support them. Our responsibility does not end with voting. The legislators and other elected officials (and those appointed as well) need to hear from us. They need to know what is important to us. It also helps when we write to say thank you, especially when we can point to something specific. They are out in front standing in for us. We need to let them know we're aware of them.
And when they screw up, we need to let them know that, too, so they can do a course correction if needed. That keeps them on our line, and more likely to keep going. If all they get is the negativity they aren't motivated to stay. Go to their presentations. Show up at civic events, introduce yourself and say thanks. Tell other people what you like about them. Campaign for them.
Did you notice yet how easy it is for any crazy lunatic to get military assault weaponry? Look how many mass shootings we have. Schools, malls, concerts, grocery stores, etc. There were bombs planted at the RNC and DNC on Jan. 6. Some of those rioters bragged on social media about returning with MORE weaponry. It is beyond credible that a politician would fear for his/her life if they refuse to back the Big Lie.
Good points, thank you Sally. DC's strict gun control laws ensured that the insurrectionist rabble were not armed to the teeth with legal weapons at the actual time of the riot on Jan 6; most were left in their rooms nearby. Other than that, it's all too easy for such domestic terrorists to assemble arsenals of lethal weapons.
1. Mitt played both sides (in term of platform) before running for pres; that compromised his credibility in the beginning.
2. Mitt was the first to stand up. The rest were chicken. Until- what is that group called? Republicans against Trump? The ones who did the ads. That was pretty visible.
3. I don't think Mitt actually has a second agenda. He knew he was gutting his chance to be the Repub candidate. He did it anyway. Not a Mitt fan, but he wins points from me for that.
I really did not write what I intended to here and I apologize for the misunderstanding. What I meant was that I don't think the choices the Rs are making are because of physical threat but because they fear for their political lives. I understand the threat many people in public service face, particularly women and people of color. And women of color are particularly vulnerable. But even the craven Rs are unlikely to give in to the threats and change their policies based on that alone. Now, blackmail or losing their seat? I think those are going on and do inform what they choose to do; just witness the abrupt change in Lindsey Graham's demeanor after a single golf outing with Trump.
I have campaigned by writing postcards to voters to registered Democrats only, in a group that started with 17 writers for Ossoff in 2017 , based in Georgia, and now has about 120,000 writers in all 50 states. Studies show we move the needle one percent, which is not nothing. I have written in 115 campaign actions which gives you a look at who Democrats are running and who is winning , in every possible election from local to federal. The Democrats organized on the grassroots level , after the likes of Donald Trump was allowed into the WH, with great animation to flip six governorships and elect judges who ruled in the bogus attempts in the courts to overturn the will of the people. To win all that we did in 2020 and on Jan.5 and hold the line against death threats to our state officials, including threats at the governors mansion twenty minutes from my house, with honesty and dignity, we have shown that what Joe Biden seeks to put forth in a return to civility and constructive positivity is indeed possible. I am putting in the mail today postcards for a New Mexico special election to Congress. We campaign year round. We get to really know the states and the people running. It has been thrilling and meaningful. Our motto for 2022 is Democrats Deliver! We are not focused on what mob thug tactics are being used to bash the country to pieces, we are focused on being on the side of morality and upholding American ideals.
Thank you, Mary, for being a Democrat who Delivers!
Mary Sadler, American Heroine!
81.2 million Americans helped me. I planted my Victory Garden with postcards to voters because I could be creative and I can watch tv and listen to podcasts while I write. The truth rises to the top. Good trumps bad. Just like my parents did not expect to fight the evil that WW2 brought I did not expect to come out of retirement to full time activism. Our vote is our only means to change this situation. Everyone of us can do one little thing that we really enjoy to elect people who support the Constitution. My group turned around after the general election and wrote 2 million postcards for my hometown guys. What a victory that was in all of the danger that Trump brought to Georgia. Plus the pandemic was raging. You talk about insane. Armed militia threatened Brian Kemp at the governor’s mansion and felt justified and righteous to do it. Look at Michigan. One postcard at a time. One city council spot one school board. These postcards are completely original. I scribble so handwriting doesn’t matter. What sanity it gave me for years.
81.2 million American Hero/ine/s
+1
I'm also a retired postcards. 200 just in mail to NJ. I couldn't live with myself if I didn't do something.
I did some postcard writing. What is the name of your organization so I can keep doing it?
I'd like to know, too. I wrote postcards for Ossoff and Warnock in December and would be happy to do more.
Sign up at postcards to voters.com. Easy system to be approved and they provide lists for as few or as many postcards as you can comfortably write.
Here is another site for you to get involved in passing along messaging about fair redistricting, not gerrymandering: https://www.mobilize.us/allonthelinefl/event/385019/
Somehow the name in my reply was changed. The organization is Post Cards to Voters and the link should read postcardstovoters.com
There are several good websites which provid targeted addresses and messages for those who purchase and mail postal cards on their own to use. Last year I used "Win the West" which recently changed its name to ActivateAmerica.com .
That link (activateamerica.com) seems to be dead. A search for "win the west" on DuckDuckGo only turns up a Facebook page for Maricopa County Young Republicans! Did you mean Flip the West? I found a link to their website when I added "activate america" to my search, but Firefox detected a potential security threat, so I did not proceed to the site. I see that Flip the West does have an ActBlue donation page: https://secure.actblue.com/donate/flipthewest
Try activateamerica.vote.
This link takes us to vibe coworks -
I don’t know how my link was changed to something I didn’t write. The organization is called Post Cards to Voters. Their site is postcardstovoters.com Hopefully this time it works.
Thank you for your good work. A group of HCR Substackers has formed to support community and activism for democracy. Join your fellow Floridians! For more info, you can email:
heathersherd@gmail.com
A group of HCR Substackers has formed to support community and activism for democracy. For more info, you can email:
heathersherd@gmail.com
Thank you, Ellie. I'll check it out.
Thank you for your good work. A group of HCR Substackers has formed to support community and activism for democracy. For more info, you can email:
heathersherd@gmail.com
I write postcards for PostcardsToVoters.org, FieldTeam6.org and ActivateAmerica.com.
Oops, it's activateamerica.vote.
Sorry ... it's activateamerica.vote
Thank you for your good work. A group of HCR Substackers has formed to support community and activism for democracy. For more info, you can email:
heathersherd@gmail.com
Thank you for your good work. A group of HCR Substackers has formed to support community and activism for democracy. For more info, you can email:
heathersherd@gmail.com
Thank you for the update, Mary. Because you talked this up before the special election in GA, I wrote 100 postcards in the weeks leading up to Jan. 5. I just sent my email as an approved writer to sign up for more addresses for the VA legislative campaign because of your current post! You rock!!!
Mary, I’d also like to know what organization you are writing postcards with. I think we are all trying to find the most effective ways to help. Thanks.
Pansy, Google postcards to voters. Tony the Democrat. Read our New York Times article I think from 2018. It is easy and so much fun. Virginia has state elections on November 2, 2021. The GOP is completely off the rails totally. We cannot lose these elections. Besides you support the post office!
Thank you for your good work. A group of HCR Substackers has formed to support community and activism for democracy. For more info, you can email:
heathersherd@gmail.com
Organized efforts to send postcards to Democrats are effective and are something almost anyone can do. Most experts say in-person canvassing, especially by locals, is the most effective action. Not everyone can do that, but many can contribute money to organizations that provide necessary support to local organizations that do this work. Fair Fight, Voto Latino, and Walk the Walk USA are some examples, and many smaller organizations emulate their methods, often through local chapters of SwingLeft and Indivisibles.org.
Thank you for your good work. A group of HCR Substackers has formed to support community and activism for democracy. For more info, you can email:
heathersherd@gmail.com
Postcards and texts. YES. Grassroots efforts work. Im working on 200 postcards for the NJ primary. Democrats must focus on these Grassroots efforts like our lives depended on them and they do. Love the young people running the efforts in Georgia. We made a difference on Jan 5th.
Thank you for your good work! A group of HCR Substackers has formed to support community and activism for democracy. For more info, you can email:
heathersherd@gmail.com
Of this observation, I am dubious:
"Now the Republican Party runs the risk of alienating voters it desperately needs as it faces a scandal of sex and drugs, a profoundly troubled election “audit,” accusations that party members are afraid to speak out because they fear for their lives, and suggestions from the former third-ranking official in the House Republican conference that the first official in the conference should be subpoenaed."
Joe Voter, and especially Joe Non-Voter, almost certainly hasn't heard of any of this. I play drums, and there's a guy I jam with. I like him a lot. He also has Fox News on all day. Or his wife does. Anyway, these folks COULD be changeable if they had a better media diet. But they will never hear about Matt Gaetz. Or anything other than the glory of dear leader.
Honestly, my friends would be better off not watching any news at all than watching Fox News. Maybe that's the best we can hope for. Then they might vote on what's really happening in their lives instead of what Fox tells them is happening in their lives.
Several studies have confirmed that a person who watches no news is better-informed than a person who watches Faux Snooze or any of the other Conservative Entertainment Inc. propaganda.
Fox News viewers really should practice better informational hygiene. At the risk of using an excessively low metaphor, perhaps we should start mailing out free, head-sized condoms to Republican primary voters. "Safe sex begins with the ears!"
... entertainment? More like entrainment ... unless one's idea of entertainment would be bloody dog and cock fights to the death ...
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EIrz6uCDnu8
Marcy Meldahl (see below) mentioned this too. If either of you can remember where you saw the survey(s), inquiring minds want to know.
Agree, that the country’s media diet is a critical element (possibly the most critical) in re-establishing a level of civil discourse and a functioning congress. As there’s probably no silver bullet, small steps are important (and money is always important).
Fox is a business and they are included in most of our monthly cable/streaming bundles, and they get a healthy revenue stream from our monthly fees. Find a way to stop subsidizing Fox. The majority of Americans do not watch Fox News; but the majority of Americans pay for Fox through media bundling fees. KICK FOX OFF THE DOLE!
I called my cable company and they just laughed when I told them I didn't want to pay for fox with my cable listing. I have to dump the whole thing (and I can't due to my husband's obsession with sports.)
Sounds like we need to be calling our senators and reps to get Faux unbundled from cable offereings.
wondering how to go about that. Is there a more specific ask than that? Like others here I have to "compromise" with other family, but when my children were growing I would not allow that crap into my home. Still I would love nothing more than getting cable out of my home. I've argued & fought for years with cable companies re just bundling a package for homes that only want educational, art, science, public broadcasting. How can one question "brainwashing" when so many homes let that crap continually broadcast into their minds.
If your internet service is robust enough, I'd just recommend getting rid of cable altogether. I did so about five years ago and haven't missed it. For a long while, live sports were difficult to access, but now with a subscription, I can get what few sports I follow (Olympics, Wimbleton, etc.).
My ability to access news is actually greater, since I can roam far more in-depth, original reporting. And I've become virtually allergic to commercials -- how could I ever stand them before? As for Fox News? Who cares?
That said, I was never able to protect my children from either the internet or cable. I'm quite certain that they've been damaged in myriad ways by the experience of growing up with the damn screen, something I was never able to prevent without completely uncoupling them from the rest of American society.
Like Peri, I called my cable provider to ask about packages that don’t include fox; met with a silent pause, then a chuckle and a “no” that sounded more like “duh.” The difference for me is that my cable fee is part of my HOA fee. If I chose another type of provider I’d still have to pay my share of the group fee for cable coming into my condo - hence trying to “hurt” fox only hurts me.
Where we live, the only source for reliable internet is comcast/xfinity. We have tried to find other ISPs, as we don't even have a television and use our computers for entertainment streaming as well as for internet, but this area doesn't have as many options as we had when we lived in Seattle. Some of our neighbors have satellite dishes from a dish company that offers internet along with TV, but the ones I've checked out offer such slow speeds that we have stayed with the big cable company. Heavy sigh. Trying to limit our service to internet only means a big conversation every time the current contract runs out - no, we don't want this cable package, no, we don't need that add-on - we just want high-speed internet, thank you!
I noticed my father-in-law became a little bit less rabid a "conservative" when his wife (who is my age, and I thank Providence for her every day because she is dealing with his current health issues and not my wife or my sister-in-law) insisted that Fox not be on in the house.
He is one of the most perfect samples of white male privilege's that I can think of, and his absolute denial of systemic racism is stunning.
We must have the same FIL. I wish my MIL would forbid Fox in the house but she's brainwashed too.
Paul, Those lines of Heather's that you referred to I think have more to do with the death of the party, not 'Joe Voter'. I think your friends and many like them are emotionally attached to Trump and what they watch on Fox. The messages they are getting taps into their hearts. That is important to remember, but it isn't whole story. There are other forces in reality and in a majority of people, which appear to be stronger. This is ugly, difficult and not over.
I think that the message taps into their collective amygdalae rather than their hearts. They are wired for fear of "other", and what Faux feeds them pleases their brains in a very damaging way.
Was at family gathering for first time since covid. In conversation someone remarked about Americans being the most fearful people in the world.
Except for a very few, people are not without heart. I have heard 'his' supporters say they love him. Fear is not the only emotion. The folks we are talking about believe that they finally found a savior, and he gives them permission to 'go wild!' I don't doubt that they have been waiting to destroy. The Republicans have targeted and embellished the targets.
The other issue is a problem I discovered in my reading. It's Grievance Addiction. A psychiatrist w/ 40 years in the field wrote this article: https://www.salon.com/2021/02/12/dr-justin-frank-on-the-trial-for-trump-capitol-riot-was-a-source-of-incredible-pleasure/
I disagree. They will hear of it. What is unfortunate is the extreme that is occurring. The “Samson alternative” as TC describes means many casualties.
I saw some survey that said FN watchers were less informed than those who watched NO news. Seems about right.
TCinLA mentioned this too. If either of you can remember where you saw the survey, inquiring minds want to know.
Jolene Voter, too.
💯 agree! Maybe they’ll turn Fox off once they see in real time the wheels of justice and prosperity making fools of Fox??? Maybe I’m forever an optimist?
Healthy alternatives to Fox. There are alternative sources of news info (e.g., podcasts on YouTube). “The Hill – Rising” with Saager and Ball—a conservative and a progressive who are honest, civil, and searching for truthful answers while not allowing any politician from either party to get away with nonsense. Also, there is Jimmy Dore on “The Jimmy Dore Show” (though the language may be a bit rough for sensitive ears). Further, Matt Taibbi on “Useful Idiots”. And there are a number of other worthwhile podcasts discussing policies and political issues.
The biggest argument against democracy is a five minute discussion with the average voter - Winston Churchill.
If Churchill was anything, he was an elitist.
True. He was a real Tory.
Except for a couple of decades (1900s-1910s) when he wasn't a Tory. For a long time people saw Churchill as an unprincipled opportunist.
I can see how they would. I've read that he was impressed by successful speculators/investors and wished he was in that club. IMHO, Churchill's real value to England during WWII (1939-45 for the British) was when he stayed publicly vocal in resisting the Nazis, and he served as a beacon in keeping up British esprit during WWII. My father met him a few times during the fighting in Italy (1943-45). Dad was a young American officer on General (later Field Marshall) Alexander's staff for two years. Alexander commanded all Allied forces in Italy in the Anglo-American 15th Army Group. In my father's considered opinion, "General Alexander was perhaps the finest soldier in the war." He was Churchill's favorite general and was called in to save situations (e.g., Dunkirk, Burma, North Africa). Also, Eisenhower idolized Alexander. I better stop now as I get carried away with talk of WWII and the Mediterranean Theater. You might enjoy seeing some historic photos of the period on my website: www.buckandbernice.com.
As people remarked about their bingo cards over the past year, who'd have thought that today's would have as heroes of the day, Liz Cheney, a guy named Stephen Richer, and the Maricopa County Republican election officials. Heroes of the day for stepping up as the loyal opposition a two party system needs to maintain a healthy democracy.
I believe when there is a traitor at the top of the food chain, exposure of it takes on a most random aspect because the normal channels in place have been compromised.
I totally agree.
It's interesting that "mob" has multiple meanings in the Republican Party. It's a party run like a crime family with Godfather Trump. And, it's a mob of gun toting insurrectionist proud white boys and girls beating up police and trashing our Capitol. And it's an undignified undisciplined group of poorly formed men and women who play at being elected representatives where proficient well informed capable men and women should be conducting our public business.
Well said.
TCinLAjust now
Just because the Republican Party may be exploding does not mean they are not deadly dangerous. Here's an analogy: After the Battle of Leyte Gulf in October 1944, the Imperial Japanese Navy was unable to undertake another open ocean offensive action. Yet, between November 1944 and the end of July 1945, they inflicted the greatest casualties and losses the U.S. Navy experienced in the whole war through the suicidal Kamikazes, to the point that at the end of June following the Okinawa campaign, Admiral Nimitz, the American commander in the Pacific, was forced to tell the US Joint Chiefs that the Navy could not support the planned invasion of Japan because they would be unable to sustain the expected losses. (and no, it wasn't the A-bombs that made the Japanese surrender, though they liked to tell us that lie after the war to make us happy)
Nutbag extremists, faced with defeat, are almost always happy to take "the Samson alternative" and pull the temple down around them rather than voluntarily surrender.
Yes and Hitler too.
That's true about Hitler too. As defeat became clearer, Hitler conscripted younger and younger cohorts of Hitler Youth--as young as 10 years old--who'd been brainwashed from young childhood with repeated oaths to die for their "father" Der Führer. In addition to this zealous energy, the soldiers were amped up with meth.
I didn't know about the meth! I believe you, but wonder if you have a reference I can look at. I would love to have this information at my fingertips.
https://www.history.com/news/inside-the-drug-use-that-fueled-nazi-germany
One of many references. Do a search for drugs and Nazi Germany.
Wow, really interesting! Thanks.
Thank you, Christine. From this History Channel article:
“Developed by the Temmler pharmaceutical company, based in Berlin, Pervitin was introduced in 1938 and marketed as a magic pill for alertness and an anti-depressive, among other uses. It was briefly even available over the counter. A military doctor, Otto Ranke, experimented with Pervitin on 90 college students and decided, based on his results, that the drug would help Germany win the war. Using Pervitin, the soldiers of the Wehrmacht could stay awake for days at a time and march many more miles without resting.”
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/why-do-you-think-they-call-it-dope-understanding-trump_b_59090193e4b03b105b44bd13
This is from Huffpost but Ellie’s comment about meth use by Nazi soldiers brought this article to mind. It’s a parallel to Trump’s base. I was startled by the article.
While I haven't checked the sources, my LE training indicated that pure methamphetamine was a by-product of the production of mustard gas used by Germany in WWI. My quick Google search (>2 minutes) couldn't find a good source for that, although there was conversation about the results of phosphorous gas released in meth production based on the old P2P process the second "P" is phosphorus) and not the ephedrine process (which is the current favorite).
Alcohol has long served the same purpose in "motivating" soldiers to fight, and sometimes to commit atrocities. Also, the US military in Vietnam was among the most drug-addled in history.
Ellie I learned something new today— I had no idea about meth or the conscription of 10 year olds. Hitler was such a nut job fanatic that it must have been torturous for him to lose. He died fairly easily with the poison and Eva by his side —and think of all the waves of suffering he created. We only had idjt 4 years and look at the terrorism he stirred up.
Weren't there fewer and fewer "of age" males remaining? Having died on various fronts?
Yes. As the available population of healthy young adult Germans diminished, Hitler conscripted younger and younger, and older and older men, including those previously deferred for a medical disability.
Horrid.
TC, what did make the Japanese surrender when they did?
What made the Japanese surrender was the Soviet entry into the war on August 9. The Japanese had stripped their Manchurian army of troops and equipment, and sent them to Kyushu to face the expected US invasion. On August 9, the records of the Japanese Supreme War Council show all interest was on the Soviet invasion - the bombing of Nagasaki isn't even mentioned. The Soviets planned to have Manchuria and Sakhalin Island under their control by the end of August, and to mount an invasion of Hokkaido at the end of September - 6 weeks before the US invasion (which the Navy couldn't support). The Japanese knew they had no defenses in the north. They also had information of what happened in Germany at the end and in the months after the German surrender, and didn't want that in Japan. Had they held off, the Soviets would likely have taken all of Hokkaido and most, if not all, of Honshu before the US invasion.
Additionally, the Japanese were well aware of the Soviet desire for revenge of the defeat in 1905.
I spoke with two Marines who were leaders in the 6th Division. In September, they visited the beach they would have landed on in Kyushu, saw the defenses the Japanese had, spoke to the leaders of the defending troops, and concluded they would never have made it off the beaches.
So the Japanese surrendered to us (with a secret assurance the Emperor would not be removed). Ever after they told us they did so because of the A-bombs, and used the bombs ever after to portray themselves as the victims rather than the perpetrators of the Pacific War. To this day, Japanese students learn in school that Japan went to war to save Asia from the White European Empires, that they won every battle but had to make "strategic retreats," and then - atom bombs! They have never taken responsibility for the Rape of Nanking, the Bataan Death March, the Railway of Death in Thailand (that story told in The Bridge on the River Kwai), the "comfort women," or any of their other atrocities. Every Japanese prime minister (the Liberal Democratic Party -actually the conservative party - was founded by former members of the wartime government; in Germany, their opposite numbers were banned from political activity) has visited Yauskuni Shrine, where the ashes of the executed war criminals were secretly returned in 1952.
All the talk about "peaceful" Japan is hooey. The current prime minister and his predecessor were and are both committed to removing the "pacifist" clause from the postwar constitution.
Enlightening, thank you.
The only participant in this conversation more surprised than you was me. I had "the bomb saved your father's life" drummed into me from so far back I cannot remember (he was sunk by the kamikazes at Okinawa and ordered back for the invasion.) He was so certain he would die he sat down and wrote me a letter - I was 1 at the time - telling me who he was, why he wanted to have a son in the middle of a war, and what he hoped would become of me, which I found going through his papers after his death. All kinds of guy felt they had been "saved by the bomb," and it was a lie the government was happy to spread far and wide, because it allowed them to develop "nuclear diplomacy" (there's an oxymoron). I had heard this argument before that it wasn't the bomb and dismissed it, but when I was researching Tidal Wave, I came into possession of a translated copy of the minutes of the Imperial War Council for August 9, and all they were discussing all day was the Russian invasion. You have to remember the Japanese and Russians fought a war in 1904-05 that humiliated the Russians, there had been bad blood with them ever since, and here they were coming through the back door that wasn't locked or defended. I went into it in detail in the book because I knew other people wouldn't believe it either.
Great question. If dropping the A-Bomb didn't force unconditional surrender, why did the US drop it (twice), then what did? Hiroshima was not a military center. The city was 98% civilian. It was used as a "terror attack" and would be illegal today.
There's no excusing the bombs. Most particularly there's no excuse for Nagasaki "the forgotten bomb." Nagasaki had been for close to 400 years the center of opposition to Imperial Japan. It was largely Christian had had maintained Christianity in the 200 years the religion was officially suppressed in Japan. The bomb was dropped there because all the other targets were "weathered in" and the alternative was the crew going home having dropped the most expensive bomb in history in the ocean. As it was, they made three runs over the city and couldn't bomb visually - the bombardier finally said "I can see" (he couldn't) and they dropped. Ground Zero was supposed to be the Mitsubishi aircraft factory - instead, it was the Urakami Catholic Church, the largest Christian church in Asia, built with the donations of parishioners after the religion was unbanned in the Meiji Restoration.
To me, the people of Nagasaki are the most admirable I ever met. After the war, they decided they wanted to dedicate the city to "international brotherhood," that such a thing as happened to them would never happen again. To this day, if you were to go there, a citizen would approach you and ask if they might buy you tea, or even a meal, offer to take you around the city (you can visit the house down the peninsula where Puccini wrote "Madame Butterfly"). All very un-Japanese behavior. On the other hand, if you go to Hiroshima, they will do their best to make you feel guilty.
If you want a "terror attack," the one you want is the firebombing of Tokyo on March 9, 1945, in which 500 B-29s dropped 5,000 incendiaries each, burning out 12 square miles of the city completely and killing over 100,000 people - more than died in either A-bomb attack. My aerobatics instructor back in the 70s had been one of those pilots and he told me that 30 years later he could still smell the burning human flesh - they bombed from 1,500 feet.
There's also the firebombing of Kobe-Oasaka. When I first went to Japan in 1963, we visited the port. A friend and I went ashore and managed to get lost walking around. Toward dusk, we turned a corner and confronted the sight of (what I learned later was) the last 1,000 acres that had not been rebuilt. It was black. There was nothing there but black, and a few twisted girders. I was immediately reminded of the cover of an Ace double s-f novel I had at home, with a cover painting of a scene after World War III. That was 19 years after the bombing.
Thanks TC. Your generous posts really aid in seeing through the usual historic mumbo-jumbo that governments provide and history books report. It is helpful to hear facts. I have read two books on the bombings and was interested by the fact that the people of Hiroshima never imagined they would be harmed. Though the fire bombing was extensive in cities around Hiroshima, inhabitants didn't know why, but they had not been fire-bombed. As always there is the military or manufacturing to strike and but then there are the civilians who face the consequences. According to your interpretation, the bombings were unnecessary, a violation. You don't say this, I don't want to put words in your mouth, but the use of the Bombs was only to show US strength. It feels like pure vengeance. I know there were terrible cruelties exercised by the Japanese military, but knowing that there would be the loss of hundreds of thousands of civilians, not military, but civilians, when there was already an awareness of the coming Russian movements and the fact that the Japanese knew the end was coming for them, and STILL to release those nuclear bombs is enraging.
There has been much argument over many years as to the real reason the bombs were employed, with much speculation that it was a demonstration to Stalin of what the US was capable of doing. Most of the Manhattan Project scientists had come aboard to create a weapon to destroy Hitler. When that war ended without the bomb being ready, most of them thought it wouldn't be used. The fact that the upper reaches of the US government and military were aware they had been checked by the Japanese in the plans to invade the Home Islands, the bombs may well have been vengeance. The former US ambassador to Japan before the war was only able after much argument to get the ancient Japanese capitol of Kamakura, the heart of Japanese culture, taken off the target list. There was a third bomb that arrived on Tinian the week after Nagasaki, that would likely have been used against Tokyo had the Japanese not surrendered when they did.
When I got to Okinawa the summer of 1963, 18 years after the end of the battle, I made a few day trips to the old battlefields in the southern end of the island. All was still ruins, and one was advised not to step off the paths, for fear of stepping on unexploded ordnance still in the ground. As it was, there was no part of the pathways where you could step that you would not dislodge a bullet casing, or even a shattered piece of bone (which I did once). 100,000 Japanese troops and Okinawans died there. Today, Shuri Castle has been completely rebuilt and many of the old trench lines filled in, but I'm told people still stay on the footpaths.
TC has written multiple well-researched books about WWII in the Pacific. I value his opinion - that's why I asked.
It would require some thought for me to choose a preference between the nutbag extremists getting what they want (which is government by white people, for white people, like the one we had until about 1964) or pulling the temple down. Avoiding both would be great but that will requre a monumental effort and some luck to boot.
(Ed McMahon voice): "You are correct, sir!"
So what exactly made the Japanese surrender?
I wonder...when TFG goes down, who will rise in his stead?
And will we recognize him or her in time.
Representative Cheney has sounded the alarm and calls for McCarthy's subpoena, also pointing out that many congressional Republicans and state officials fear for their lives. Considering the contradiction between McCarthy's current statements and his statements during and shortly following the January 6 insurrection, Cheney's advice should be heeded. I am not a Republican and never have been but we, as HRC asserts, need a healthy opposition party, a "loyal" opposition, to serve as a check on both parties. "Loyal" to what? To the Constitution and the rule of law. Our democracy hangs in the balance.
And an investigation of those death threats. Tie them to the former guy et al, and perhaps more moderate Republicans will get off that toxic train.
Congress has the power to declare war, to send our youth out to die for their country..if these Republicans do not have the courage to tell the truth, to stand up and protect this democracy and do their job out of fear they may lose their jobs or be threatened by Trolls of their own making they do not deserve the jobs they hold. Everyday the young women of "The Squad" face death threats and yet hold their heads up and work for the people...what cowards the GOP are.
Yes, the courage and backbone of the women of color in Congress is something we don't speak enough about. If only a quarter of the Rs had half of their strength and integrity, we wouldn't be in this mess.
Let's all listen to Keb' Mo's anthem one more time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeaMRib7SOc
This version of "Woman in Charge" is sung by the Best Witches Women's Chorus. (Musically, it can't compare with Keb's performances posted previously, but it's a fun listen to hear all these mostly old, mostly white ladies singing it.) (I'm a mostly old mostly white lady, so I can say that.)
They're in their prime. You too, Lanita!
👏🏼 💯
Understand that Republicans do not care one bit that you call them cowards. They’ll laugh to themselves, and continue doing exactly what they’re doing. As far as Trump’s Republicans are concerned, democracy is for suckers.
"One of the key functions of a strong opposition party in a functioning democracy is oversight”
I never thought of it this way, but it is a really important point.
Yes.
I can't wrap my head around Liz Cheney admitting yesterday that she voted for iDJT in 2020. She said, "Well, I wasn't going to vote for Biden." Egads, how sick is our society that someone knowing and understanding how corrupt iDJT is still voted for him? She famously voted to impeach him. Anybody else astounded by this?
It helps to remind us that she is one big ball of political calculation. Everything she says and does must be filtered through the understanding that she is looking out for Liz Cheney first and foremost. Not that there is necessarily anything wrong with that, but imputing noble motives to her actions is an exercise in self-deception.
***EXACTLY***
Yes, along with all the other cowardly Republicans who thought it was a better idea to vote for a dead person rather than vote for Biden (hello Larry Hogan, Mitt Romney, Mike Dewine).
Not really. Don't forget, she voted with and rubber-stamped T***p's policies 92% of the time. She's another of the "love the sinner, hate the sin" kind of approach when it came to DJT, so flipping the voting lever FOR him is hardly surprising. That kind of mentality has governed a lot of the support for T***p, and it is still pretty formidable. At the end of the day, Cheney is really very far to the right politically, and, like the rest of nut-base electorate of the GOP, they will vote party first and foremost every time. They've swallowed the "radical socialist agenda" shtick hook, line, and sinker. I'm not as optimistic as HCR in thinking that suddenly the "scales will fall from the eyes" of the GOP voting base. They're gonna vote "R" regardless of whatever shenanigans their leadership is up to. They did it before and they'll do it again. That Cheney "woke up and smelled the coffee" (wow...I'm using lots of quotes this morning...) is laudable, but symptomatic of the ongoing rot in the Republican party. I still think the actual voters out here in "Les Styx" will be the last to flee the sinking ship. Don't "misunderestimate" (my favourite Bush-ism from W) the amount of blind allegiance and ignorance out here.
Or maybe hers is more a "hate the sinner, love the sin" approach.
If we think of those millions who are blindly allegiant and ignorant as brainwashed cult members (which is my own perception, I confess), the "scales" will not miraculously "fall from their eyes." They are more likely to sacrifice themselves first in a desperate attempt to "save" the country for their dear leader. This is what scares me. This and losing our rights to vote and to having our votes COUNT.
She stated last week that she would never vote for a Democrat
I think it makes us all pretty itchy to see a politician whose deepest political beliefs and motives we abhor doing something we feel obliged to grudgingly admire at a certain level. However, she is no advocate for the people and I'd feel no safer going on a camping/hunting trip with her than I would with her father.
I would like to know more about why and how they feared for their lives. These are folks that should have very strong security around them. What did they know about? Does DT have some sort of goon squad taking out his political and other enemies? R Stone and co? DeVos’ mercenary brother E Prince? Why wouldn’t the FBI be on this? Surely these Senators could ask for and receive help?
They are afraid of the armed Second Amendment loving crazies who voted for them. There is a strongly violent undercurrent in their social media. Trump energizes and validates it constantly with matter of fact references to “how we used to deal with these problems” and the like. The message many of the members got on January 6 is that their status as Republican elites won’t save them or their families from the mob. Many of these members are desperately clinging to the tiger they decided to ride. While it’s hard not to point out their folly it doesn’t make the riders’ fear less palpable.
HCR’s observations about the role of oversight reminded me of meetings I attended in the mid-2000s with Iraqis who had been selected to be Inspectors General in different agencies of their newly established government. The meetings were cast as a chance to offer them our experience with how to conduct government oversight, but it wasn’t possible for us to answer their real question, which was how to engage in oversight in the face of death threats and murder. Many of them returned to Iraq to be killed by one or another faction or corrupt minister’s thugs. Ultimately all that protects any of us is the rule of law. The fear of the Republican members is a pale copy of what things look like when that rule breaks down.
“They are afraid of the armed Second Amendment loving crazies who voted for them. There is a strongly violent undercurrent in their social media. Trump energizes and validates it constantly...” Agreed!
This makes sense as to what they were afraid of, but what total cowards that makes them, as they aid and abet that behavior towards their own political opponents.
They are also afraid of losing their jobs. What disturbs me so much right now, is that over the last four years, many of the more “reasonable” ones have left Congress, leaving the increasingly radical ones behind. (I put reasonable in quotes because I personally don’t think any of them really are reasonable, including Liz Cheney.)
Sounds to me that the former president did not choose to use a “goon squad” or SS as Hitler did. Worse. He used the American people to do the deed. The insurrection proved that. It is only fortunate happenstance that many Legislators were not physically harmed or killed that day.
And we now see that it is the American people who must defeat the Republican party’s worst laid plans......at the voting booth. It appears the nefarious plans make that an even more daunting task than it was in 2020. However, the truth is the best weapon always.
A most sincere and heartfelt thank you to HCR and this stream as being an example of that.
I have no doubt that if the most crazed groups of that Jan.6 mob had found Mike Pence that day they would have seriously hurt or even killed him in order to stop him from ratifying the vote. If they had found Pelosi they would have done the same thing because they hate the woman. There is good reason to be afraid for life, limb and family.
Agreed. Two years ago while waiting for an X-ray at a VA hospital I had to leave the waiting room & move down the hall due to two older, white, male veterans loudly ranting about how they “couldn’t wait to see that bitch Pelosi’s face beaten to a bloody pulp”. Both said they’d pay to watch that happen. (I reported it. Was told they were “just exercising their freedom of speech”.)
Had the insurrection been more of a military assault and less chaos mob I think we would have seen several Democrats + Pence murdered that day.
Think for a moment of what poisoned the minds of those two "older, white, male veterans" and those of millions of similarly inclined Americans. The battle to save democracy is a battle against ignorance and gullibility, a hard one to win, given social media and the First Amendment.
So I guess saying “I’m going to kill you” isn’t a threat till you’re dead.
I believe states have laws defining a “credible” threat and duty to warn the identified victim through law enforcement.
I dislike intensely that you felt you had to move and that your reporting was met with the “first amendment excuse”. That is ridiculous. Being verbally abusive and threatening in a common area in a public place is not acceptable due to any amendment.
THEY ARE THE ONES THAT NEEDED TO MOVE OR BE ASKED TO MOVE.
Thank you for your service.
Good grief, the exploitation of the first amendment. Pretty sure their ‘speech’ falls under ‘fighting words’. https://www.freedomforuminstitute.org/about/faq/which-types-of-speech-are-not-protected-by-the-first-amendment/
Diane: Free speech is one of those rights provided in a democracy which can serve as the seeds of its own demise. It has happened before. A friend recently chastised me for pessimistically quoting Alexander Pope's couplet:
"Hope springs eternal in the human breast,
Man never IS but always TO BE blessed."
She is one of those progressives eternally hoping for the success of American democracy and insists it can happen once true believers in democracy find a plan to enable that to happen. So I added two more lines to Pope's poetry:
"Hope springs eternal in the human breast,
Man never IS but always TO BE blessed,
Till when at last a plan is found,
Enabling blessings to resound."
Love it, Jacob!!
Thank you, Jacob. Alexander Pope still inspires.
Right that makes sense. We know he’s incited violence over and over against political enemies so maybe they were afraid of their own cult members with their militarized arsenals turning on them at 45’s behest. Lily-livered!
I wouldn't be surprised if the "goon squad" didn't exist as he wouldn't be the first gangster to hole up in Florida...Meyer Lansky and also the Trafficante Family were particularly efficient in making there threats particularly believable and effective from their Miami and Tampa bases. Their "killer" bullets are now more likely to be skeletons in the closet rather than bodies dumped in the woods. Trump and his goons, in 4 years in the White House, probably perfected the "Edgar Hoover Technique" and built files on all the Republican's missdeads and "favours done" which would force any recalcitrant underling to commit Harakiri should they be revealed on Fox News or even CNN.....and attract very close attention from a newly clean DOJ.
Yes Stewart, and Barr probably has the key to the closet with all the secrets and all the skeletons.
Miller
Creepy Evil Miller
Yes, I seem to recall Stormy Daniels saying she was threatened in a parking lot by thugs, so it wouldn't surprise me, given his father's (and his own) long-standing ties with the mob, that he would use such tactics. If dozens of senators, however, fear for their lives, I am inclined to think they fear their conspiracy-crazed constituents.
Dont forget Trump's comment during the 2016 campaign that he could kill someone and still be elected. I wouldnt be a bit surprised if he hasnt already done that.
Jeffrey Epstein?
...!!
That, AND goon squads.
I remember McConnell showing up “black and blue” and his only comment was “nothing to be concerned about”, black and blue hand and punch in the mouth black and blue. I’ve always wondered if he was “roughed up”. Anybody else wonder about it?
I did. Having been assaulted and left with similar bruises I did consider first that he was assaulted. If not that, then perhaps a medical issue.
A medical issue could have been a fall_-I worked in geriatrics for years and saw some very nasty bruises from falls, especially if a resident was on a blood thinner..
The thought that someone might have hit him crossed my mind, but dismissed. Thugs know how to rough people up without leaving visible marks. Face & hand say fall to me.
I figure he fell and hushed it up because he would be perceived as old and incompetent, a description Repubs would prefer to hang on Biden.
My diagnosis of McConnell's just-crawled-out-of-the-crypt bruising: cold blood coursing through his veins
I did, too. That was very strange.
I too wonder if any of this is being investigated or if it’s all being shrugged off as “oh, that’s just trump” - something too many Democrats have done far too often, in my opinion.
Yes, I am surprised that Heather emphasized this; I don't find it very credible. That they were fearing for their political lives is easy to believe--they think they can't win without the MAGA base. But I don't honestly believe they were physically threatened.
If you recall, the Republican Georgia election officials who certified the election and defended the process had to have police protection because of the death threats and doxxing that occurred. Christine Blasey Ford had to go into HIDING with her family because of death threats against herself and her family--which included the publication of her home address and phone numbers of her entire family. I am not surprised they are terrified by the threats they themselves created by hyping up the Big Lie and tugging the forelock to the Cheeto. When you have a lot of people with a lot of guns and a demagogue who has no compunction about ramping up the temperature, you have a recipe for terrorism. My thought is that this demonstrates exactly why the former guy should never be allowed on social media sites ever again.
And Gretchen Whitmer! But what cowards are they, that they can’t tolerate exactly what they have done to others.
Another official needing protection is Katie Hobbs, the AZ Dem Sec'y of State (for having had the nerve to certify the Presidential Election andcall ing out the Cyber Ninja BS (She calls it the "Fraudit"!). The Republican Gov. Doucy ordered it.
Why he hasn’t been barred from holding any office is beyond me.
Well, that was what the second impeachment trial was intended to accomplish.
What surprised me with all you have just said is why members of Congress are not doing anything to protect their peers. Surely they understand that at any time, things could change they would be the ones being threatened. I don't understand this part of it all.
I have no hard evidence, but given the former guy's penchant for mob-like control, physical threats could be part of his desperate, last-gasp clinging.
Physically cal threats is what he used Cohen to do for him. It is TFG’s M.O.
I have no doubt he has tried some strong-arm tactics, but do experienced politicians really take them seriously? I honestly don't know, but would be surprised if they do. Besides, he doesn't need to. Those who have opposed him have almost universally been sidelined, at least so far. Liz Cheney is betting that influence is coming to an end.
With the knowledge at how unhinged his followers are, I certain that most any reasonable person witnessing the shenanigans at his rallies, the street gang leaders he has hosted at the White House and the public events involving them at other public events such as protests, marches and the official acts he has had coordinated involving DHS and other governmental law enforcement agencies, would have reason to fear violence in one form or another. When you consider that A-List celebrities must hire security to protect them from overzealous and unhealthy fixated fans, they generally have the income to do so. I don't think the average congressman/woman does though.
I really created something of a firestorm here without intending to. I agree with everything you say but consider it unlikely that Congresspeople are making choices based on threats of physical violence. If we truly are in an era where our republic is dominated by Mafia tactics then we are entirely lost. I choose to believe this is not true. It's clear they are now and always have been acting from self-interest--in pursuit of greed, power, and job security. But I find shocking the degree of cynicism required to think that even the most craven of our lawmakers are legislating based on the threat of physical violence. I have also seen no evidence that this is so. It's not like this is something that would have escaped the notice of the New York Times or the Washington Post, not to mention the FBI.
I did not claim that Democratic congress-people are creating legislation out of fear. However I can't wonder that HR1 is a response to the situation coming out of the last election and the ensuing redstate legislature passing new electoral rules. Additionally, I am certain that Republican politicians have walked back statements related to 1/6 out of fear (look at Lapdog Lindsey's change of attitude after being confronted at the airport following 1/6). People like Elise Stefanik --she for example is just acting out of craven power hunger. Additionally, one cannot deny the record number of retirements in the Republican Congress and Senate of moderate/traditional pols in the last few years.
Our Governor in Michigan and our Secretary of State were physically threatened, and received death threats. I believe Republican Congress folks received the same real threats.
It's just a matter of time before a prominent public official is murdered by a MAGA type.
Sure hope not.
😣
Reid, you silly, foolish person. I personally know (as in friends) several elected officials who have received death threats and some who have experienced near misses (not counting the little stuff like vandalism, attempted car rammings, etc.) It is not uncommon for elected officials (and appointed, for that matter) to need physical guards because of attempted assaults. You "honestly don't believe they were physically threatened"? Really?
My Rep Ayanna Pressley is forced to deal with numerous threats to her physical safety. Remember Jan 6? Someone disabled the alarm system in her office, probably as part of a larger conspiracy to harm her and multiple others. And by harm I don't mean a few bruised wrists. The worst of the filthy insurrectionist trash were there to assault, rape, torture and lynch their targets. Once Bulldog Garland's DOJ has assembled the evidence, hopefully charges of conspiracy to commit murder are included along with sedition and treason, not just the routine domestic crimes like assault, criminal trespass, etc.
I am thinking of Representative Jim Clyburn, who when interviewed just after the attack (I think the very next day), was still reeling from his close encounter because the insurrectionists had found their way to his very door - in that labyrinthian building where few would even know how to find his office WITHOUT DIRECTIONS. I am thinking of the maps that were in the hands of insurrectionists. I am remembering the representatives who were hiding in the gallery and being told by one of their own how to put on gas masks. I am remembering Nancy Pelosi's staff hiding in a conference room, in the dark, hearing the insurrectionists literally banging on the DOOR. I am remembering Senator Romney being led to safety within FEET of dangerous insurrectionists who were there to hang the VP and hogtie whomever they could find. I am thinking of the video of insurrectionists in which one woman could be seen and heard giving instructions on which doors and windows led where. I am remembering the reports of GUIDED TOURS of the Capitol on January 5th, when the Capitol was CLOSED to all but authorized persons and employees. I am reminded that one Representative who was threatened by MTG had to ask for a different office and another had an insulting and degrading sign placed on the wall outside her door. I am thinking of the recently released video of MTG stalking AOC before she (MTG) was even installed in office and how she stalked and threatened David Hogg. I am thinking of the attempts on Governor Gretchen Whitmer's life and the mob that surrounded her HOME. I am thinking of the Trump Train right here in Texas that tried to run VP Harris' campaign bus off a major interstate. I am thinking that these Congressional servants ARE living now in a heightened state of fear, not only from deranged and out of control Trumplican supporters, but also from members within their own midst. We hear from Representative Swalwell and former assistant director for counterintelligence for the FBI Frank Figliuzzi as well as Representative Adam Schiff on an almost regular basis these days reporting on the dangers of serving in office, even with the deposed tyrant hiding out in FL. I honestly don't think most of these individuals came to office with the understanding that they might need extra protection for their personal safety or that their homes and families might be targeted by crazies. If this is so, then why on earth would any sane person run for office?
Excellent, horrifying, summary of what we have all witnessed.
The Vice President of the United States was targeted on Jan 6 (possibly to be hung) by the mob with the President's blessing (& goading).
Yeh. Plus the not very active search for Pelosi, also goaded by TFG. One could say both of those ongoing events went a little beyond "physical threatening". Both were downright terrifying to watch, let alone being the target. They indicate that there likely was a lot of more subtle bureaucratic posturing (verbal and physical) by members of the 45 administration going on behind the scenes long before Jan 6, too.
"plus the VERY ACTVE SEARCH for Pelosi". Where'd that "not" come from? Duh.
We really need an edit function here, Substack.
I didn't make myself clear. I think they are threatened all the time, but that they take it in stride--it comes with the territory. But do I think they are cowering in fear and making policy decisions based on physical threat? I do not.
By the way, name calling and shaming have no place here. This is a forum for civil discussion.
I'd delete the first sentence if I could to salve your feelings, but the rest would still stand, Reid. You appear to be truly unaware of what is going on. Yes, some politicians do make policy decisions based on intimidation, which often implies physical threat. There is blackmail. There is manipulation. There is corruption. What amazes me is how much actually gets done in spite of it all, because there are still people who will get up and do the work IN SPITE OF IT. Our system is still functioning, but just barely. What Stacey Adams pulled off in Georgia gives me hope- and she endured threats of physical violence for it.
I personally, as a representative of a state agency, have experienced it. My governor stood up for me, but for a while my life was very uncomfortable. Yet I was a small fry. I simply had the gumption to stand up to a man who thought he could intimidate me into backing down from something he didn't like.
It is not enough to dismiss this kind of thing with "they take it in stride--it comes with the territory". No, they do not take it in stride, nor should they have to. It affects their lives, their families, their ability to work. People resign because of it, or choose not to run for a seat they would easily win, because they have had enough. One representative in the state in which I now live had to withdraw from reelection campaign and move to get away from constant harassment. This is not as uncommon as you may think. We lose good statesmen who leave because they are unable to get things done in an atmosphere in which antagonism and threats are constantly in the air. In several state legislatures this past year, actual threats were made on the floors of the legislature. On the floor. Public record. I witnessed one such. It shocked me then. I've seen worse since. I have little patience when people who should be more aware prefer to believe either that this does not happen, or that it is "just the way things are". In a society based on the rule of law, one in which decisions are made in places where civil discussion is expected and guided by rules, there is no room for intimidating tactics meant to instill fear and shape policy decisions. To then make excuses for the fact that this exists by dismissing them as "coming with the territory" is simply not acceptible. You may choose to believe otherwise. That is how we ended up with Trump.
I can see that you feel strongly about this, which does not give you license to be abusive. I don't need my feelings salved; I'm a big boy. I have already engaged in extensive mea culpa for my comments and have apologized here. If you choose not to acknowledge that, that is certainly your right. I stand by the revised version of what I said.
I do other things, Reid. I did not see this post until hours later. And now you are miffed about that. Have not seen the mea culpa you reference, but good for you. I hope you managed to do it without feeling the need to sling yet another stinger. Quit reading thing into other people's posts. It may help you feel righteous, but does not help your cause. Can we drop this now?
Totally accurate!!!
Yes, that name-calling was a surprise and quite uncalled-for. And I agree with you ( Reid). I think we are missing some information here.
Yep, I misspoke, simple as that. My bad.
Ummm? Didn’t get that. Thought you spoke quite well. Am I missing something?
Except when they were physically threatened during the insurrection. :-)
or just blackmail on bad acts
I have long thought that blackmail was one of Trump's foremost tools for the control he has over certain people. Some of the things coming out seem to support that. Look at the scandals that are not directly related to political scams. They often come out after someone becomes a liability to the former guy and his sycophants. And I have little doubt that TFG, like other mob bosses with thugs at hand, would only have to indicate that someone was a problem. There has been real fear in WaDC for a while, and it is a release to see people standing up to it. Sometimes the best thing to do, instead of ducking and hiding, is to stand out in the open where the threat become obvious. Obvious is easier to see, easier to fight.
Not to mention the hold Putin had on TFG, what was that about?
Don't you think it was about money? Trump has unpayable debts all over the place and in Russia in particular.
It is always about money with T***p...and power.
I was being facetious. And I think it's about more than money. TFG is corrupt thru and thru.
He got the ultimate in Secret Service protection. Does have to pay. TFG is going to stiff Deutche Bank and Putin.
Blackmail
And TFG's little kid wanna-be syndrome.
Loans for more condos.
We call that leadership. To stand up for what is right, call out the wrong, and suffer for it. Offer solutions, create a plan through reason & compromise, audit and adjust the plan as needed. Everything else is just noise, and those noisemakers need to be voted out & sent home.
I think this is more likely.
It's credible, Reid. Read the post I just put up from Jeff Greenfield's Politico article - and go read the whole thing. I'm sure with the nuts out there who go after me that GOP office holders have indeed received "credible threats."
I understand the threats both physical and endangering their jobs but if elected officials can't or choose not to do anything to stop the threats then aren't we all pretty much lost? They have the option of secret meeting with the DOJ and can pass information to the FBI unlike regular citizens. So if they are leaving office or giving into the threats then what chance is there to stop them?
They need us to support them. Our responsibility does not end with voting. The legislators and other elected officials (and those appointed as well) need to hear from us. They need to know what is important to us. It also helps when we write to say thank you, especially when we can point to something specific. They are out in front standing in for us. We need to let them know we're aware of them.
And when they screw up, we need to let them know that, too, so they can do a course correction if needed. That keeps them on our line, and more likely to keep going. If all they get is the negativity they aren't motivated to stay. Go to their presentations. Show up at civic events, introduce yourself and say thanks. Tell other people what you like about them. Campaign for them.
We've done this before. We can do it again.
Did you notice yet how easy it is for any crazy lunatic to get military assault weaponry? Look how many mass shootings we have. Schools, malls, concerts, grocery stores, etc. There were bombs planted at the RNC and DNC on Jan. 6. Some of those rioters bragged on social media about returning with MORE weaponry. It is beyond credible that a politician would fear for his/her life if they refuse to back the Big Lie.
Good points, thank you Sally. DC's strict gun control laws ensured that the insurrectionist rabble were not armed to the teeth with legal weapons at the actual time of the riot on Jan 6; most were left in their rooms nearby. Other than that, it's all too easy for such domestic terrorists to assemble arsenals of lethal weapons.
Mitt Romney would say differently.
1. Mitt played both sides (in term of platform) before running for pres; that compromised his credibility in the beginning.
2. Mitt was the first to stand up. The rest were chicken. Until- what is that group called? Republicans against Trump? The ones who did the ads. That was pretty visible.
3. I don't think Mitt actually has a second agenda. He knew he was gutting his chance to be the Repub candidate. He did it anyway. Not a Mitt fan, but he wins points from me for that.
I really did not write what I intended to here and I apologize for the misunderstanding. What I meant was that I don't think the choices the Rs are making are because of physical threat but because they fear for their political lives. I understand the threat many people in public service face, particularly women and people of color. And women of color are particularly vulnerable. But even the craven Rs are unlikely to give in to the threats and change their policies based on that alone. Now, blackmail or losing their seat? I think those are going on and do inform what they choose to do; just witness the abrupt change in Lindsey Graham's demeanor after a single golf outing with Trump.