Batshit crazy. I just spent an hour listening to a christian trump supporter explain how the end of the world is coming, and his proof for it. There were three eclipses a few years ago and that is tied to Israel; something about an eagle's wings that I was unable to understand; trump changing the capitol of Israel from Tel Aviv to Jerus…
Batshit crazy. I just spent an hour listening to a christian trump supporter explain how the end of the world is coming, and his proof for it. There were three eclipses a few years ago and that is tied to Israel; something about an eagle's wings that I was unable to understand; trump changing the capitol of Israel from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem; the pope is going to go to a synagogue in Jerusalem and claim he's god, meaning that the pope is the antichrist; an asteroid is going to fall into the Pacific Ocean in 2029 and poison 1/3 of the ocean water, leading to the deaths of most Earth's inhabitants; the US is going to join the league of nations and that will signal the end of the earth (I mentioned NATO - he didn't seem to know what NATO was) . . . . . and so forth. These are the people who elected trump. I felt as if I were talking to someone from the Dark Ages.
I was raised in these beliefs. In my case they were taught in a Pentecostal church which I had to attend five times each week - plus revivals and special services - until I was able to legally leave home. The rules were extremely strict and hate and fear based.
I believe that each person can believe whatever they want but only as long as you don’t cause harm to others or try to force others to live by your beliefs.
Unfortunately, what you described as batshit crazy - and it is - is not only fervently believed but hoped for (to bring about the End Times which will bring about The Rapture where all true believers will be whisked off to heaven while the rest of us suffer for a thousand years and so on) and even scarier, planned for by more than a few people with power. Think Pence & Pompeo.
It is easy to roll our eyes at these beliefs but when people with the authority to start a nuclear war are influenced by such a cult it cannot be dismissed. Even though they are no longer in charge they haven’t gone away or given up. No mob can be organized faster than one based on religious fervor. Combine that with those who crave power and it is a dangerous mix.
The Dominionists intend to establish the Kingdom on Earth so Jesus will return. That means destroying all those who are not true believers. They would see nuclear destruction of Europe, China, India, Russia as positive
In spring of 2020 I received a handwritten letter from a woman from a local church who praised the appearance of Covid for it meant the beginning of the End Times. She waxed on about how all Covid deaths would be on nonbelievers and would make Jesus happy. It was astonishingly hateful and happy at the same time.
I remember visiting relatives in Idaho, and going to a church service there. One of the men had advanced (untreated) skin cancer that had destroyed his face. They were faith-healers, and for them, going to doctors was a sin, punishable by hellfire. So this gentleman was the subject of earnest prayer, that he might be "delivered from his affliction." He was celebrated for the strength of his faith, that he had not sought medical treatment. And in the end, when he died of the disease -- as I'm sure he did -- his failure to attain a full recovery would have been attributed to "insufficient faith."
This is so sad and unfortunately, too common in certain religions. The church I attended was similar with regard to faulting the person for their lack of faith. They believed that if your prayers were not answered (no matter what they were for) then it was because your faith was not rock solid and therefore, your fault.
I had a cousin of the Christian Science faith who did not believe in medicine and doctors. God will cure him. He died suddenly of an appendicitis burst. It was his children who never understood.
I wish we had an idea how many of us are this far gone and this was a bigger focus in our news. Maybe a few good movies of this indoctrination would help folks see their own crazy?
They would see it as nonbelievers propaganda against them which only strengthens their belief. Instead of thinking “Hmm, maybe I should consider this other view”, it is “Ha! You’re against me so I know I’m right!”
Well, perhaps some of these genius creative millennials coming up will create some very fine films that can subtly overtime unravel the indoctrination. I’ll hold onto my optimism, I am frequently impressed and amazed and the more equity we have across the board the more hope we have for our most creative geniuses to flower 😁
It is extremely hard to change the minds of people who are enmeshed in religious beliefs who surround themselves by like-minded people. Look at Trump rallies. Egads. They actually tend to get worse while surrounded by other Trumplicans.
There is a phrase for that - mob mentality. Groups of people tend to act together and the more outrageous the behavior the higher the participation. It applies to all groups, not only “Trumplicans”. (I like your portmanteau 😀.)
And I agree - those rallies are disturbing. In all aspects.
And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. Gen 1:28KJV
What made you question these beliefs? Was there an event, something you learned in school, or just plain logic, that encouraged you to evaluate these teachings and turn away from them?
I think questioning everything was part of my personality from the beginning. Add to that - growing up immersed in hatred (the beliefs taught at church & home) and pain (home was a violent environment) was difficult to stomach - literally and figuratively. I had stomachaches and headaches from all the hate. I rebelled every time I was told something was absolute and written in stone and I was wrong, blasphemous and a willful, horrible child if I asked why. I found it all too much to hold. As I grew up I began to see the holes in the plot lines, if you will. I wish I could say that there were specific people who showed me a different way to be or who planted the seeds of questioning but there wasn’t. I did have a few individuals in my childhood who were very kind to me and that mattered beyond measure but they did not impart any specific lessons on looking beyond what I was taught.
Without telling anyone until a week before I left for basic training I joined the military a few months prior to high school graduation and left three weeks after. Getting out of the evangelical/white supremacy bubble was everything. Being around other people who held a variety of beliefs, living life without the constant impending doom of the End Times, starting college at night, testing myself - all of that gave me the room to learn, explore and make up my own mind.
Thank you for telling us your story. I can't think of an adjective to descrbe the horror and pain and eroding hate you endured in your young life. And thank you for finding a (secret) way out of it. I am stunned. I am not naive. I joined a pentocostal movement in college for a year, but tired of what seemed like nonsense to me. To think of what it became, and how it could undermine our democracy, even potentially eliminate our world, and all the suffering you endured (inn the Name of Christ) - I think it is a story that needs to be told to a much larger audience. Terrible and riveting, and so incredibly sad. Americans need to hear it. Write it. Thanks.
Thank you for sharing. Your childhood sounds very stressful and repressive, and quite frightening. You had quite a bit of personal strength to question and to leave the world without giving much notice. You must be a strong person.
It's ironic that Christianity is supposed to be about a god of love, which to me means nurturing and helping children become who they are meant to be; and, instead, this cult created an oppressive hate and fear-filled environment. The best way to control others is through fear, and evidently the leaders used this method.
Hi Diana. I appreciate your kind words - my childhood was all of those things. I have had to be strong at times but I think it was/is mostly stubbornness :) One of my grandfathers used to tell me “you could give lessons in stubbornness to a mule”. (Sometimes he meant it as compliment - sometimes not.)
In college I took courses in rhetoric, brainwashing. psychology and various religions to help me understand what I went through. It was sad to realize the level of fear that some religions and power seeking individuals use to control and manipulate people - especially so with religion given that, as you pointed out, it is supposed to be about love, service & support. It’s good there are religions and ways of thought that do not resort to such awful tactics.
After being suppressed by the cult, and emerging, and it sounds as if you're doing well now, maybe writing an article or book about the process and what you learned might be helpful to others? I would be interesting to read.
I once encountered a woman "preaching" End Times doctrine at a street corner bus stop in Spokane to speak to her teenaged daughter - dragged along to witness, learn, support? I immediately flashed to my own childhood and youth with my evangelical, charismatic (not in the charming sense, but in the speaking-in-tongues sense) mother, being taken to a Jesus freak march (I don't think she understood that some of our fellow marchers were high on something besides Jesus) in the middle of the Vietnam anti-war protest era. That teenaged girl reminded me of myself, so I approached her, ignoring her mother, and told her that she didn't have to stick with those beliefs - that I'd survived and had a fuller life since leaving that craziness behind. I've often wondered if that shell-shocked looking young woman ever got out.
Unlike Kasumii, I was fortunate enough to have parents who were strict, but very loving. They didn't like the way I turned away from the church, but they'd always told me I needed to think for myself. That one backfired on them and I think they may have regretted encouraging me to use my brain so much!
Thank you for speaking up to that young woman and leaving that seed of hope and curiosity. That took courage and compassion. I imagine that she has never forgotten that you did that.
just remember it says right there in the bible that if anyone tries to tell you that they know the day and hour of the coming of Jesus they are indeed batshit crazy because no man knows the "hour of my coming"
They ignore ALOT of parts, yet, fervently believe and quote alot of other parts. Religion is belief/faith, don't even bother talking sense about it. Politics is supposed to be fact based, but there are entertainment channels falsely labeled as news....and the lies upon lies upon lies got us to where we are today. Who will write our history? Thank you Heather, for the umpteenth time, for citing and documenting truths as we cut through the "bald face lies" of today.
Like their fearless leader, they are very good at throwing out red herrings rather than sticking to the topic. I think it’s called “what about ism.” They need to argue and feel superior. You cannot reason with them.
They all exhibit symptoms of slight ABI (acquired brain injury). Not enough to be full blown ABI but enough to interfere with normal thought processes.
I would like to compare dMRIs (diffusion MRIs) imaging of the brains of these religious trump supporters to the fact-based population to see if there is a difference. dMRIs are used to find blockage/damage to the brain by measuring pathways of activity. It's frequently used to evaluate TBI.
More idiotic right-ranting, displaying the speaker's rank ignorance. 1/45 had no power to move the Israeli capital; he did recognize Israel's doing so. And it's very hard to join the League of Nations since it hasn't existed since WW2. These folks need to update their script from the 1930s.
Yes - I wanted to leave the conversation, but at the same time, here was a trump supporter who was actually willing to tell me what he thought, so I listened. He listens to evangelists on Sundays, one sermon after another.
I didn't interject much because I wanted to hear what he had to say. He does some gardening work for me (excellent gardener), so I may have to listen to this again sometime (oh no!!), and I may say a couple things. I was astounded at his lack of knowledge of history. I did suggest he read some history books . . . .
Batshit crazy. I just spent an hour listening to a christian trump supporter explain how the end of the world is coming, and his proof for it. There were three eclipses a few years ago and that is tied to Israel; something about an eagle's wings that I was unable to understand; trump changing the capitol of Israel from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem; the pope is going to go to a synagogue in Jerusalem and claim he's god, meaning that the pope is the antichrist; an asteroid is going to fall into the Pacific Ocean in 2029 and poison 1/3 of the ocean water, leading to the deaths of most Earth's inhabitants; the US is going to join the league of nations and that will signal the end of the earth (I mentioned NATO - he didn't seem to know what NATO was) . . . . . and so forth. These are the people who elected trump. I felt as if I were talking to someone from the Dark Ages.
I was raised in these beliefs. In my case they were taught in a Pentecostal church which I had to attend five times each week - plus revivals and special services - until I was able to legally leave home. The rules were extremely strict and hate and fear based.
I believe that each person can believe whatever they want but only as long as you don’t cause harm to others or try to force others to live by your beliefs.
Unfortunately, what you described as batshit crazy - and it is - is not only fervently believed but hoped for (to bring about the End Times which will bring about The Rapture where all true believers will be whisked off to heaven while the rest of us suffer for a thousand years and so on) and even scarier, planned for by more than a few people with power. Think Pence & Pompeo.
It is easy to roll our eyes at these beliefs but when people with the authority to start a nuclear war are influenced by such a cult it cannot be dismissed. Even though they are no longer in charge they haven’t gone away or given up. No mob can be organized faster than one based on religious fervor. Combine that with those who crave power and it is a dangerous mix.
The Dominionists intend to establish the Kingdom on Earth so Jesus will return. That means destroying all those who are not true believers. They would see nuclear destruction of Europe, China, India, Russia as positive
Yes, they would.
In spring of 2020 I received a handwritten letter from a woman from a local church who praised the appearance of Covid for it meant the beginning of the End Times. She waxed on about how all Covid deaths would be on nonbelievers and would make Jesus happy. It was astonishingly hateful and happy at the same time.
how do they explain all the pastors who held unmasked services and then died of covid?
In the church I had to attend they always used the fallback of “God’s ways are not our ways” as explanation, justification or rationalization.
It can be even worse than that.
I remember visiting relatives in Idaho, and going to a church service there. One of the men had advanced (untreated) skin cancer that had destroyed his face. They were faith-healers, and for them, going to doctors was a sin, punishable by hellfire. So this gentleman was the subject of earnest prayer, that he might be "delivered from his affliction." He was celebrated for the strength of his faith, that he had not sought medical treatment. And in the end, when he died of the disease -- as I'm sure he did -- his failure to attain a full recovery would have been attributed to "insufficient faith."
That is so sad. Why do they think the deity created doctors?
This is so sad and unfortunately, too common in certain religions. The church I attended was similar with regard to faulting the person for their lack of faith. They believed that if your prayers were not answered (no matter what they were for) then it was because your faith was not rock solid and therefore, your fault.
I had a cousin of the Christian Science faith who did not believe in medicine and doctors. God will cure him. He died suddenly of an appendicitis burst. It was his children who never understood.
I wish we had an idea how many of us are this far gone and this was a bigger focus in our news. Maybe a few good movies of this indoctrination would help folks see their own crazy?
They would see it as nonbelievers propaganda against them which only strengthens their belief. Instead of thinking “Hmm, maybe I should consider this other view”, it is “Ha! You’re against me so I know I’m right!”
Thank you Kasumii; your remarks are most worthwhile. Please keep commenting, and hopefully you can avoid the haters.
Speaking of unreasoning fanatics, AOC is still regularly harassed by them, this time MT Greene. I wish people would treat her with respect.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/05/13/politics/marjorie-taylor-greene-aoc-house-chamber/index.html
Well, perhaps some of these genius creative millennials coming up will create some very fine films that can subtly overtime unravel the indoctrination. I’ll hold onto my optimism, I am frequently impressed and amazed and the more equity we have across the board the more hope we have for our most creative geniuses to flower 😁
It is extremely hard to change the minds of people who are enmeshed in religious beliefs who surround themselves by like-minded people. Look at Trump rallies. Egads. They actually tend to get worse while surrounded by other Trumplicans.
There is a phrase for that - mob mentality. Groups of people tend to act together and the more outrageous the behavior the higher the participation. It applies to all groups, not only “Trumplicans”. (I like your portmanteau 😀.)
And I agree - those rallies are disturbing. In all aspects.
Ironic that christianity is about service and caring for others; and this group choose to identify with the term "dominionists."
And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. Gen 1:28KJV
Of course. A man with control issues must have written that.
Very scary
Not raised in, but exposed to these cultists more than necessary.
I’m sorry that happened.
What made you question these beliefs? Was there an event, something you learned in school, or just plain logic, that encouraged you to evaluate these teachings and turn away from them?
Hi Diana.
I think questioning everything was part of my personality from the beginning. Add to that - growing up immersed in hatred (the beliefs taught at church & home) and pain (home was a violent environment) was difficult to stomach - literally and figuratively. I had stomachaches and headaches from all the hate. I rebelled every time I was told something was absolute and written in stone and I was wrong, blasphemous and a willful, horrible child if I asked why. I found it all too much to hold. As I grew up I began to see the holes in the plot lines, if you will. I wish I could say that there were specific people who showed me a different way to be or who planted the seeds of questioning but there wasn’t. I did have a few individuals in my childhood who were very kind to me and that mattered beyond measure but they did not impart any specific lessons on looking beyond what I was taught.
Without telling anyone until a week before I left for basic training I joined the military a few months prior to high school graduation and left three weeks after. Getting out of the evangelical/white supremacy bubble was everything. Being around other people who held a variety of beliefs, living life without the constant impending doom of the End Times, starting college at night, testing myself - all of that gave me the room to learn, explore and make up my own mind.
Thank you for telling us your story. I can't think of an adjective to descrbe the horror and pain and eroding hate you endured in your young life. And thank you for finding a (secret) way out of it. I am stunned. I am not naive. I joined a pentocostal movement in college for a year, but tired of what seemed like nonsense to me. To think of what it became, and how it could undermine our democracy, even potentially eliminate our world, and all the suffering you endured (inn the Name of Christ) - I think it is a story that needs to be told to a much larger audience. Terrible and riveting, and so incredibly sad. Americans need to hear it. Write it. Thanks.
Thank you for your kind words.
So glad you had the resilience to survive and then make a life for yourself based on positive values.
Thank you.
Hi Kasumii,
Thank you for sharing. Your childhood sounds very stressful and repressive, and quite frightening. You had quite a bit of personal strength to question and to leave the world without giving much notice. You must be a strong person.
It's ironic that Christianity is supposed to be about a god of love, which to me means nurturing and helping children become who they are meant to be; and, instead, this cult created an oppressive hate and fear-filled environment. The best way to control others is through fear, and evidently the leaders used this method.
Hi Diana. I appreciate your kind words - my childhood was all of those things. I have had to be strong at times but I think it was/is mostly stubbornness :) One of my grandfathers used to tell me “you could give lessons in stubbornness to a mule”. (Sometimes he meant it as compliment - sometimes not.)
In college I took courses in rhetoric, brainwashing. psychology and various religions to help me understand what I went through. It was sad to realize the level of fear that some religions and power seeking individuals use to control and manipulate people - especially so with religion given that, as you pointed out, it is supposed to be about love, service & support. It’s good there are religions and ways of thought that do not resort to such awful tactics.
Well, it is important to give thanks or that stubbornness, Kasumli. It helped you leave a life of trauma. Be well and thank you for sharing.
After being suppressed by the cult, and emerging, and it sounds as if you're doing well now, maybe writing an article or book about the process and what you learned might be helpful to others? I would be interesting to read.
You were speaking to someone from the Dark Ages.
Listening to these people is bad for your mental and physical health. Don't do it. Signed, Your Mother.
Pass this on.
I once encountered a woman "preaching" End Times doctrine at a street corner bus stop in Spokane to speak to her teenaged daughter - dragged along to witness, learn, support? I immediately flashed to my own childhood and youth with my evangelical, charismatic (not in the charming sense, but in the speaking-in-tongues sense) mother, being taken to a Jesus freak march (I don't think she understood that some of our fellow marchers were high on something besides Jesus) in the middle of the Vietnam anti-war protest era. That teenaged girl reminded me of myself, so I approached her, ignoring her mother, and told her that she didn't have to stick with those beliefs - that I'd survived and had a fuller life since leaving that craziness behind. I've often wondered if that shell-shocked looking young woman ever got out.
Unlike Kasumii, I was fortunate enough to have parents who were strict, but very loving. They didn't like the way I turned away from the church, but they'd always told me I needed to think for myself. That one backfired on them and I think they may have regretted encouraging me to use my brain so much!
Thank you for speaking up to that young woman and leaving that seed of hope and curiosity. That took courage and compassion. I imagine that she has never forgotten that you did that.
just remember it says right there in the bible that if anyone tries to tell you that they know the day and hour of the coming of Jesus they are indeed batshit crazy because no man knows the "hour of my coming"
They ignore that part.
They ignore ALOT of parts, yet, fervently believe and quote alot of other parts. Religion is belief/faith, don't even bother talking sense about it. Politics is supposed to be fact based, but there are entertainment channels falsely labeled as news....and the lies upon lies upon lies got us to where we are today. Who will write our history? Thank you Heather, for the umpteenth time, for citing and documenting truths as we cut through the "bald face lies" of today.
Like their fearless leader, they are very good at throwing out red herrings rather than sticking to the topic. I think it’s called “what about ism.” They need to argue and feel superior. You cannot reason with them.
Sounds like my brother. Trump supporters should all have MRIs to determine how many are suffering from slight brain injuries due to a fall.
slight injuries? more like TBIs (traumatic brain injury)
They all exhibit symptoms of slight ABI (acquired brain injury). Not enough to be full blown ABI but enough to interfere with normal thought processes.
And create oppositional defiant disorder behaviors.
I would like to compare dMRIs (diffusion MRIs) imaging of the brains of these religious trump supporters to the fact-based population to see if there is a difference. dMRIs are used to find blockage/damage to the brain by measuring pathways of activity. It's frequently used to evaluate TBI.
OK, TBI and ABI are the same thing, just from two different countries. I think that would be a worthy experiment
😂
Or the Twilight Zone.
More idiotic right-ranting, displaying the speaker's rank ignorance. 1/45 had no power to move the Israeli capital; he did recognize Israel's doing so. And it's very hard to join the League of Nations since it hasn't existed since WW2. These folks need to update their script from the 1930s.
That League of Nations reference really jumped out at me.
Look at the bright side. At least they didn't reference the League of Schmalkalden!
https://encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary.com/League+of+Schmalkalden
hahahahaha
They're completely clueless.
That was a wasted hour, you couldn’t make that shit up, it’s so insane.
Yes - I wanted to leave the conversation, but at the same time, here was a trump supporter who was actually willing to tell me what he thought, so I listened. He listens to evangelists on Sundays, one sermon after another.
Was he willing to listen to what you thought? That is, if you felt like talking with him further.
I didn't interject much because I wanted to hear what he had to say. He does some gardening work for me (excellent gardener), so I may have to listen to this again sometime (oh no!!), and I may say a couple things. I was astounded at his lack of knowledge of history. I did suggest he read some history books . . . .
If he does bring it up again I hope it goes well and he is open to listening to an idea or two to ponder later.
We ARE talking to the dark ages. Called dark because there was no one left to operate the levers of governance or learning.
Sorry for the spelling errors!
Whut spelig errrorz?
😁
I always have spelling errors!
WOW!