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Michael Bales's avatar

Tucker Carlson isn’t changing anyone’s view about what happened on Jan. 6 with his selective release of videos. The truth is vividly etched into the American consciousness - forever.

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Sheri Smith's avatar

Millions of us watched it live and unfiltered. It is forever etched in our memories.

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Sharon Stearley's avatar

I will never forget...no matter how they try to spin what really happened on that terrible day! It was a very sad day in our history and maybe worse than 9/11.

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Patricia Boley's avatar

Worse because it was an inside job and most are still out there, training for 2024.

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ELD's avatar

9/11 killed 3,000 people and destroyed two large buildings and others, but the entire country came together in support of democracy and freedom. 1/6 is at the heart of destroying that democracy.

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Marli's avatar

Did the folks who can only get/watch FNC have access to the LIVE coverage on 1/6/2021?

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Mike S's avatar

I don't know but maybe they showed Tucker Carlson live "talking" them through what was happening and then showing select video clips?

Because, at no time is Fox interested in representing reality accurately.

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ELD's avatar

Fox knows they are in deep sh*t, but have to continue to provide for their base. You know the line, "a lie keeps growing and growing until it's as plain as the nose on your face". They are hoping if they say it enough times, it will be believed and America will watch them (why does anyone watch them, I really don't understand!!)

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AJT NYC's avatar

Doubtful. I think we need the movie studios to bring back the two-minute news reel (circa WWII) before feature films - whether in the theater or streaming. We need to find a way to pierce the bubble.

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Ally House (Oregon)'s avatar

I actually watched about 2 hours of Faux that day. They were as dismayed as CNN or MSNBC was. At least during the event.

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Ellen's avatar

Now, Faux is simply echoing what the MAGAs tell them, or telling the MAGAs what they want to hear, to keep their ratings up.

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Virginia Witmer's avatar

The problem is what Fox has done afterward. The Dominion suit may bring out the truth and the whole truth.

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ELD's avatar

So Trump heard them saying how dismayed their were (that's his only viewing channel as I understand it). Wonder what he thought about that.

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Irenie's avatar

I think that live coverage was on multiple stations including C-span. And MAGAs had a heads up. My neighbor, since moved, had a “house guest” he claimed he hardly knew, working in the driveway preparing his beat up pickup truck with trump and confederate flags and a small string noose on the rack. I took pictures because he didn't remove them for days. I was freaked out but our HOA has no rule against flags on vehicles. But commented about my BLM sign in my window, comparing. Many stories about the next three months. I know there are people who are tired of politics and not reading or watching much, but they must know something. Or they are repubs and are just letting life happen. Just vote R.

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Louise's avatar

Maybe that is why Republican Politicians lead the anti-vaxxing efforts and anti-masking efforts, they want all the witnesses of their slide into fascist Autocracy dead!

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Eric O'Donnell's avatar

I couldn’t agree more - with your first sentence. To wit: he is also not changing the minds of tens of millions of Trump supporters. He is merely strengthening a narrative they clutch to without reserve, and providing video documentation. This will be used, incredibly I might add, to continue to prop up America’s most powerful and despicable lie. Carlson is amplifying a view that will coax from willing martyrs a terroristic response at some point when the fuse has been lit by some other relatively insignificant action.

How this got from the government to the media this easily is a total shock to me. The comparison may be inapt and I apologize if it is. But, on the one hand the law allows lengthy stays of justice based on the most specious, absurd grounds (I’m thinking at the moment of Pence’s “I’ll have it both ways” challenge in order not to testify). On the other hand, a government official can simply hand over raw American history unchecked by any rule to a single entity which is now probably the most corrupt media outlet of power America has ever been subjected to.

The legal system is fast becoming a dangerous joke for its inability to avoid twisting itself into knots allowing appeal after appeal after appeal. Justice delayed through too clever by half appeals to the nooks and crannies of the laws is justice denied.

I am reminded of Ernest Wilde’s play Salome grossly orgiastic and profane written in the depths of his libertinism being banned from Germany at the turn of the 20th century. When public demand for this spectacle became intense, the Kaiserin managed to get the authorities to evade the ban by the simple expedient of insisting that the Star of the Magi appear at the end of each performance, symbolizing the triumph of good over evil. Two hours of blood-soaked orgiastic wallowing was redeemed by a one minute appearance of the star. This is the kind of hypocrisy American law now excels in.

I have blamed and continue to blame Merrick Garland for his tortured waste of time at the beginning of his term, using valuable effort and resources to try to convince those whose ears are stopped to him that he really was an even-handed good guy who would apply the law equally to both sides. It was a cowardly failure. And now we are reaping the results as Trump promises to run if indicted. *Of course* he will. What does he have to lose. Rachel Maddie’s utterly lame comparison of Trump to Spiro Agnew last night was a joke. These are far far more turbulent times - the zeitgeist is completely different.

Professor Cox Richardson’s piece seemed a bit overblown to me until I thought for two seconds. It is one of her darkest warnings yet, in a quiet but unmistakeable tone that she rarely uses. From her vast experience and knowledge, she sees a probability that is deeply unsettling. Best we listen.

Apologize for length.

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Jean(Muriel)'s avatar

Please do not apologize for stating honest and valuable concerns. I agree with everything you said. Particularly the parts about making a complete joke of our “by the Law” rhetoric. Every lawyer in this country should be overly concerned with how their careers are viewed.

I am on the verge of leaving this “lawless” country as the hypocrisy is about to do me in. And America needs people like me. All of “me’s” out there must start sharing their discontent. How dare a Tucker Carlson blatantly make a lie out of visual fact. I think a person should sue him for hurting all good Americans. How dare our legal teams allow this vulgar take over of truth.

I am sickened!

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Eric O'Donnell's avatar

Your comments leave no room for misunderstanding. :)

I'm Canadian, so have only a little skin in the game (my son is a prof at Carnegie Mellon and I worry about his welfare and even safety at times). Nonetheless, looking at it objectively I have increasingly had the feeling that America is deeply in need of reform - I had that thought at the very beginning of DJT's Presidency, as he crashed through norm after norm with spectacular ease. I began to think that this could not have happened out of the blue at the will of one man. The more I looked the more I felt that there are two kinds of Americans (forgive the over-simplification). There are those who rush into causes and conspiracies and take them as far as possible without regard to consequences known and unknown, as well as understanding that at some point they have zoomed past any point of logic. On the left, there are those who have what Sarah Kendzior has labelled accurately "Savior Syndrom" - first for Mueller, then for impeachment, then for Garland, now for Jack Smith. On the right there are any number of groups - MAGA itself, the absolutely incredible QAnon farce, and the long term belief in the lie that Trump won in 2020.

Then there are those Americans who are busy, preoccupied with their own cares, suffering, or just plain comfortable warming themselves under the shining light on the hill that is America. They have woken up somewhat now, but there remain millions who view political events as a somewhat amusing spectacle and something that will work itself out eventually.

But there are people like you who are reaching a point of no return with your outrage. Thank God - I think that a very small number of Americans relative to the whole saved America in 2020 and to a degree in 2022 by becoming activist. I don't know what you do but I'm sure America needs you to stay in the fight in restoring sensible and timely law to America.

I became fascinated by the subject of how the 2010 to 2020 (and now 2023) period happened in America. I was always your complacent neighbor! What could go wrong in such a country is the way that millions of my generation felt? I knew that there were terrible stories in American history - I majored in History, but I loved the country and visited it dozens of times. There is a superficial openness to Americans that makes one quite gratified to meet them and chat.

In any case, I began to study how the America of my imagining - 50s through 70s - had become such a shell of a country, and in the process lost so much of its swagger and confidence.

The fruit of my learning is in a SubStack called "Cancel the American Dream." It's a sort of chronological history - The Fifties through to the present (I'm currently in the Nineties). The articles I write are developing a thesis that America has, mostly by design, partly by historical sweep, and a little bit through sheer accident, conjured up the perfect storm. It is now being battered by it full force. Some of the problems are, in my opinion, irremediable. Social media is one. Racism - white vs black especially - is another.

I invite you to read it. (Sorry to hit you with a shameless self-plug, but I find the Americans who read really get it. The Canadians, most of whom are people I know, are doing Eric a favor :), and are only mildly interested with a few exceptions.

I would be interested in your critique and additional ideas.

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Jean(Muriel)'s avatar

Boy, is my blood boiling... please forgive my bark, but the DOJ and the Supreme Court are both just titles that are empty of integrity. Is this what we think of ourselves? Just empty suits pretending to be useful when we put up with the “lowest of bars” for our own children to experience. From that angry nasty dominating DeSanity(FLA take a bow), to Ga.putting up with “Grimace”( green), to the “Supreme Despicable Courtesan” pretending they are about “The Law”! I am beyond hope. Help me here.

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Michele's avatar

Exactly. I had been to my massage and came home to the insurrectionist riot. It was awful and I still cannot look at the Capitol Building without remembering it.

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Linda Bailey's avatar

Michael, it won't be used to change minds. It will be used to reinforce lies.

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Just Sayin''s avatar

fearfully, if enough bullshit is shoveled at the MAGA base to provoke more violence, something akin to a civil uprising could actually happen. With our country awash in 400 million guns, a relatively small but zealous faction can wreak a lot of havoc with sufficient provocation. His Orangeness is just the type of guy who could provoke.

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Louise's avatar

You are so right! Look at the lengths the worst of the MAGA Govenors have been pushing for more and easier access to guns. Then add in MTG who said that there aren't enough guns in America and Barbara Boebart, who said Jesus should have been armed with an AR-15, it paints a pretty violent picture of their plans for the future!

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Randy Watson's avatar

When will people realize the Jesus was the most "woke" figure in history.

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Miselle's avatar

I have posted "Jesus was a liberal" many times on Yahoo and have gotten some real nasty replies, most from MAGA types, but some from some atheists as well, the term "sky fairies" is popular.

While I am not here to argue religion(s), or the existence of God/higher power, my point is to support yours. If someone accepts Jesus as their savior, how can they justify white nationalist behavior? If you don't believe that Jesus truly existed, can you at least accept the concept of Jesus and use it as a role model?

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Joan Friedman (MA, from NY)'s avatar

White nationalists aren't interested in what Jesus preached. They connect with the extensive history of Christianity being spread by the sword.

Also, self-styled "Christian nationalists" do not necessarily believe in any Gd beyond Donald Trump. It's about white male supremacy, not religion.

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Michele's avatar

Yes, sky fairies. I have seen that often. I have had the argument as well and often point out that people need to stop painting every believer with the same brush. The first three Gospels contain much that could help if people would only practice what is attributed to Jesus.

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mark cramer's avatar

Miselle ! AMEN !

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mark cramer's avatar

REPROBATE Hearts, CAN NOT, be CHANGED! Only the Hearts, that choose, THAT, that is Good, THEN REPENT ! then ASK OUR LORD ! By HIS HOLY SPIRIT, to MAKE YOU, the NEW CREATURE, in CHRIST THAT GOD has PROMISED !! { remember ! GOD ! Can NOT....LIE!! }

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Susan Burgess's avatar

In Calvinism a reprobate is a person who is predestined to damnation. Since we make up what God must be like, and everyone who believes in God has done this, I my God is one who’s love is so complete there is no one outside of it.

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AnnaKuz's avatar

It's Lauren Boebert...I just call her totally nuts though :-))

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Louis Giglio's avatar

By any name she is crazed!

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Louis Giglio's avatar

Boebert was probably referring to Jesus from the barrio who sells stolen weapons not the biblical Jesus!

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Christy's avatar

Their civil war consists of baiting the mentally unwell into taking freely available uzi’s into crowded spaces and slaughtering innocents. Please don’t call this a war, which requires more than just one armed opposing sides

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Patricia Boley's avatar

I’m also worried about radicalized members of our military.

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Louise's avatar

And members of different police forces. I particularly want to know how Fox News Network can retain it's FCC to broadcast after all the releases of their hypocritical lies and dishonesty, labeling themselves as a news source, not entertainment.

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Dave Smucker's avatar

FCC doesn't license Fox, it is cable not broadcast. Now all the ultra right radio is a different story.

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Louise's avatar

That's interesting to know. Maybe we should all start a campaign to ask their licenses to be revoked. I am not sure what that criteria would have to be. Don't we have to show that they are not meeting some sort of community standard of some sort?

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ELD's avatar

The second paragraph of the Terms of Service says their purpose is "entertainment". It's in black and white, that's their 'out'.

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Johnelle's avatar

I agree. Our Sheriff was an Oath Keeper 🤬

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Louise's avatar

Where in America approximately are you. What State?

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Johnelle's avatar

California, Riverside County. Deeply red but we’re working on it!🤞

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Louise's avatar

I only recently survived being in a deep Red District here. I was never so glad to be 'redistricted' into a deep Blue District in my life. Do to a change in The State Constitution and the 2020 census causing a massive redrawing of District lines, I don't need to worry about an anti-democratic Representative again at least for 10 years, and doubtfully even then. After all, we have moved from a rural district to an exurbia district in both State and Federal Representation.

Believe me, I am with you in spirit in your efforts to turn a deep Red District Blue. Very Hard Work!!! The MAGAs don't listen to reality. Fantasyland all the way.

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Mike S's avatar

Nathan, just make sure if the zombies come near your place you have a plan.

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Marycat2021's avatar

What you describe is what Trump and his friends wanted on Jan 6. According to the investigation and testimony (and the indictments against Stewart Rhodes and others), there were caches of weapons in place outside the perimeter of the Capitol in trucks and stashed in hotel rooms that day.

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Gayle Cureton's avatar

Really ???😳

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Louise's avatar

Yes! That is true. That is how the Government got the conviction on Sedition charges against Oath Keepers and next will be the Proud Boys.

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Marycat2021's avatar

Specifically, seditious conspiracy. You can find the indictments online and read them. Funny how the media chose to more or less ignore that essential aspect of the charges against these yahoos. More recently, they ignored Trump's CPAC speech where he calls America a "filthy communist country." To me, it's a seditious comment and should have extensively reported.

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Louise's avatar

Not ABCs mouth, but straight from sworn testamony in their trial. The weapons were found by the authorities.

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Louis Giglio's avatar

Add lunatic mega billionaires willing to buy the big weapons to use against our National Guard!

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Carole Berkoff's avatar

Chop wood carry water mentioned a bill in the house to stop the sale of assault weapons to Mexico HR698. There is no summary of the bill or more information. It may be associated with a ban on assault weapons if indeed it is attached to that the bill is dead

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Elizabeth M. (Massachusetts)'s avatar

Louis, please post some links on this point!

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Michael Bales's avatar

Legitimate fear for sure. All the prison sentences handed out to the Jan. 6th rabble and more to come would be a deterrent — but how much of one? If violence were to spread, I'd worry about local police forces, or large segments of them, joining. This is why the sooner Trump is history, the better. Regardless, must uncertainty and anxiety ahead.

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Louise's avatar

I agree, the sooner Trump is gone the better. My worry is the wannabes behind him, now getting major funding from the same set of donors and Media tycoon backers Like Murdoch and Newsmax, whoever owns that piece of propaganda trash. I am particularly thinking of Ron DeSantes, but luckily for us, I don't think he has that level of Charisma especially in front of the camera.

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George Baum's avatar

My fear also.

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Mar 7, 2023
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Patricia S Duffy's avatar

There is hope in Michigan. After our shootings in Oxford High School and Michigan State University, our Democrat-led (after 40 years) Congress has eleven gun safety bills up for the vote. I was heartened to see Michigan NRA members and Michigan gun owners speak to our state Congress in FAVOR of gun reform!

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Michele's avatar

We passed a gun measure here in Oregon, but an eastern Oregon judge has held it up. There are some gun measures in the legislature, but as usual, Rs oppose them and then cry about all the gun violence, particularly in Portland. I just read a very long article yesterday in the Atlantic about all the violence and militias and Portland figures heavily in the article. It is long, but worth the read and I believe it is the cover story. It did not make me feel better about getting this deadliness under control.

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Patricia S Duffy's avatar

It's difficult when hopes are dashed by politicized courts. Fortunately, we also have a Democrat attorney general in Michigan, and a 4-3 majority on our State Supreme Court, so that's one less thing to concern us. You can bet we're gonna get some legislation passed before the 2024 election!

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Michele's avatar

The Oregon Supreme Court is not R, but has declined to interfere until this goes to trial. The people suing picked the eastern Oregon judge on purpose as judges are elected and he would soon be out of a job if he had not stayed the measure. It may at some point become law, but in the meantime the killing continues and everyone throws up their hands and says what can we do. The answer is obvious, but there are enough Rs around to make it difficult.

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Eric O'Donnell's avatar

That is an outstanding point, James.

However, I am finding that much of what happened in the Nineties, well beyond, but including, militias, was almost a dress rehearsal for the apocalyptic events of the last ten years.

They were beaten back for some time, but I don't think their ideas were reformed by the horror of OKC.

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Michael Bales's avatar

Yes, to some degree, but the MAGAs who believe Jan. 6 was a just cause were never going to seek out much less embrace the truth.

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Mary Hardt's avatar

Michael, just remember how TFG was booed when he finally endorsed vaccinations. Once the people are convinced of something, it’s hard to change their minds.

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Mike S's avatar

Right.

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Patricia Boley's avatar

And to give its viewers what they want. Because they are r about truth, they’re about numbers according to Rupert.

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Mike S's avatar

"Carlson isn’t changing anyone’s view about what happened on Jan. 6"

Correct.

Those that support what happened by sponsoring the lie that it was a nonviolent excursion will stick to that lie.

Those (of us) who know that it was a violent attempted coup, authored, sponsored and led by Donald Trump will continue to know that.

And? ALL will continue to be amazed that Trump has not yet been arrested.

I now "believe" that Garland has stood aside waiting for Fani Willis to do his work for him. I believe he knows that whomever charges Trump will have trouble protecting their family and he does not want to be that guy.

Yes, I do blame him for being a coward.

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Grace Sherer's avatar

I believe that both Willis and Garland are doing their jobs. I don’t know why it is taking so long to bring indictments, but I do know that the level of surety required to do such is very high. Although it seems quite obvious to me that crimes have been committed and that our democracy depends on at least the pursuit of Justice, I cannot second guess and wait, not so patiently

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Elizabeth M. (Massachusetts)'s avatar

It is incredibly difficult to wait, to keep faith that Merrick Garland and Jack Smith are working hard preparing to indict Trump, when the stakes are so frighteningly high and we have no insight on what’s happening inside the Justice Department. I wake up every morning hoping to see the bombshell announcement on the front page of the New York Times.

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Miselle's avatar

First thing I do every morning is look (hopefully) that the news is of his demise. Honestly, he is looking worse and worse to me--these latest clips/photos appear, to me at least, that he's packed on about 30 more pounds, the makeup is extra thick and even still, he seems TIRED. We know his diet is atrocious and we know he abhors exercise, I think an MI/stroke is overdue.

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Randy Watson's avatar

I live in Georgia. There's a countdown to the day Trump will be indicted. It is a certainty.

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Elizabeth M. (Massachusetts)'s avatar

Fani Willis will have to hurry up and indict Trump before the new bill the Georgia Senate just passed gets signed into law. My understanding is that it allows [the Georgia legislature?] to remove from office any district attorney or prosecutor they think is guilty of overreach.

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Mim Eisenberg (NYer now in GA)'s avatar

Pretty awful, isn’t that?

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Carole Berkoff's avatar

Did u watch Rachel last night?

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DLM's avatar

Grace, I agree with you. trump has committed so many crimes, for so long, and the web of deceit in our government is so extensive, it will take years to unravel this.

I have no doubt that trump will be indicted. I honestly believe he has very little time left as a free man. I think he knows it too.

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Barbara D. Reed's avatar

Glenn Kirschner. a former D.C. Federal prosecutor for 25 years does You Tube entries frequently. Last week, he was very excited that Jack Smith, Special Counsel, has requested that Judge Beryl Howell to force Pence to testify (to side step Pence's attempt @ defying his subpoena/dragging out his testimony.) Here's the link to that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSfWBhoYv2k

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DLM's avatar

Barbara, I watch Glenn's YouTube channel almost everyday. He's one of the voices of reason who have kept me going through this mess.

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Anthony Matz's avatar

Sorry, but I don't share your faith.

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Grace Sherer's avatar

No need to be sorry. Your point of view certainly has validity. It will take all of us to get through this craziness.

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mark cramer's avatar

DITTO !..........ALL! , of US!

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Carole Berkoff's avatar

On Rachel last night she featured the Georgia House & Senate passing a bill that THEY can fire DA they think are not doing their job. Word is the Gov will sign it. It may take time to go into effect so I hope it will spur Willis to act now

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Barbara D. Reed's avatar

GRRR! In other words they want to stop any legitimate investigation of themselves.

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John Ranta's avatar

Michael, sorry to contradict you, but the truth about Jan 6th is not etched into Republican voters’ minds at all. Most Republican voters still believe that the election was stolen*. They still believe that the investigation into the Jan 6th insurrection was rigged, biased*. They find ways to dismiss it, or to blame it on Democrats, the deep state or the media. Tucker Carlson will reinforce those beliefs. McCarthy wants to create an alternate reality about Jan 6th, one that shows Trump and his supporters did nothing wrong, and Tucker Carlson is going to make that happen.

The NYT has an ongoing series where they interview panels comprised of various voter groups. This panel of Republicans has been interviewed twice, 14 months ago, and again 2 months ago. It’s a long read, but it demonstrates that we mustn’t think that Republicans accept the facts, at all.

* https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2023/01/12/opinion/republican-focus-group.html

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Kim's avatar

It's quite telling that Republican voters who hate government and don't want to pay taxes are the first ones to blame the government when something goes wrong--inflation, the train wreck, natural disasters, violence/crime--and demand action.

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james wheaton (Jay)'s avatar

There John. Winner! Ding Ding. There are so many hopeful readers of these letters, who suggest that more Republicans are going to eventually come around. It is my belief that too many Republicans (if not statistically all of them) believe just as you describe, and will continue to do so. The phenomena is the most perplexing thing politically I have ever seen. That so many seemingly reasonable people would cling to this utter bullsh_t despite all evidence to the contrary. That is why Fox has not changed their tune yet (or ever). They know that force is still out there, is still strong, and they can still profit from them. They will spin this Dominion thing into some sort of victimhood story that the MAGAt's will eat up. This MAGA movement is a force that will - hell, has already but will continue to - diminish our nation from great status to also-ran status, if allowed to continue for much longer. The other great free nations of the world will cease to follow our lead; will relegate us to the annoying and dangerous carnival barkers that we are becoming. We saw the beginnings of that during Trump's term. Can you imagine if TFG found a way to win again in 2024? So far it is not out of the question. The very fact that it is a possibility, and that that orange dumpster fire monster is still walking around free and spouting the very lies that got him in trouble in the first place, is a giant setback for American democracy. Ask any European.

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Kim's avatar

It is my very unfounded nor scientific belief that there are a lot of people, most actually. walking around with childhood Trauma or trauma. And for some of these people, they have a deep wound that they have neither acknowledge nor explored. And the wound can be exacerbated by all manner of life events. And the wound can prevent one from empathizing or sympathizing with others. An unhealed wound, grows, and becomes all encompassing, a seething just below the surface. Trump, with his rhetoric, taps directly into this wound. Of course, he knows how to do this because he is a walking wound himself. The embedded myth in this country that you be tough, don't cry, don't whine, sweep it under the rug or else you're a weenie does untold damage, untold til now that is.

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Christy's avatar

Kim, that along with being forced to deny their reality by their family, living a lie is their culture. How existentially painful it would be to acknowledge the truth. Which is why I’ve always said once Hilary Clinton came out with It takes A Village, the wannabe fascists were all over her with lies and smears and trumped up investigations to destroy her. Imagine if the Clinton’s had gotten her health care proposals thru way back then. There would be a lot fewer vulnerable minds for the fascist to grow their hate. Entirely different times we’d be living in.

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Virginia Witmer's avatar

Republican propaganda from the moment republicans took her measure kept Hillary Clinton fighting for legitimacy from Arkansas to New York. Among the best of public servants, she was slandered during her entire public career by the GOP.

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james wheaton (Jay)'s avatar

Correct - to their credit, they recognized very early that she was special, and an existential threat to their power. She was literally bombarded with innuendo and lies and accusations for years. She almost overcame it, but with the help of Putin (who feared her as much as the Republicans) she came up a little short. I am a huge Hillary fan. If only.......

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Kim's avatar

Indeed.

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Christy's avatar

https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/aces/fastfact.html

After 2016 many journalists linked djt voting counties to the unhealthiest based on multiple measures. So your belief is NOT unfounded!

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Kim's avatar

I work on animal welfare stuff and this shows up in that arena as well. It's all connected, sadly.

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Kim's avatar

Thank you! I have been listening to Dr. Gabor Maté a lot lately and he talks about this too.

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mark cramer's avatar

PTSD ! Personified! and Etched PERMENTLY ! in Anyone ,in MANKINDS Mind !

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Melinda Quivik's avatar

John R: Thanks for this link. I missed it when it appeared in the newspaper. It is dumbounding to see how uninformed these people are. They dismiss the Jan. 6 committee's findings, f.ex., without having watched the hearings or learned about what Republican witnesses said against their own. It does seem like nothing can penetrate the worship of their guy. The wall against facts is thick.

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John Ranta's avatar

“Uninformed” implies that they never had access to information. This is different. The Republican base is “other informed”. They know all about the Jan 6th Committee’s work. They know all about the 2020 election results. They choose to reject this information, because it threatens their world view. This is why Fox lost viewership when they broadcast the actual election results, and regained those viewers when they began broadcasting Trump’s big lie. This is why Tucker Carlson is going to selectively edit all that footage, to make it look like Jan 6th was peaceful and patriotic. The Republican base knows what it wants to hear, and rejects anything that doesn’t fit.

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Gail Adams VA/FL's avatar

Thanks for this. It really brings to life the tribalism and mistrust on the right, especially the old white men.

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Elizabeth M. (Massachusetts)'s avatar

The answers of those Republican focus group are a tribute to the power of confirmation bias. They are also a tour of every shortcoming of our public education system. These people have no clue about how to think critically, how to take in and analyze complex information, how evaluate and distinguish between credible information sources and purveyors of bullshit who are deliberately manipulating them by playing on their emotions. They cannot grasp the complexity of our economy, and especially how long it takes for government policies that affect the macro economy (ex. inflation) to be visible at the grassroots level, or how factors external to government policy like the Covid pandemic can be shaped by good and bad policy decisions (Trump’s months of public Covid denial sabotaging the country’s chance to crush Covid early, and causing hundreds of thousands of unnecessary deaths because his inaction turbocharged the spread.) Attributing the good economy under Trump to Trump, instead of recognizing that Obama set up that success and Trump just coasted on taking credit for conditions created by his predecessor. It would take too long to describe the rest of the ways they are ignorant and missing higher thinking skills. I’ll stop there.

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John Ranta's avatar

Elizabeth, I’m a high school teacher. Public education didn’t fail these people. They received the same education on civics, history and critical thinking that the rest of us did. They reject that education because they’ve joined the MAGA cult and it doesn’t fit the MAGA worldview. MAGA voters aren’t accidentally ignorant, they are intentionally, belligerently ignorant. Too many of us look at how ignorant they are and think, “it’s somebody’s - the schools, media, politicians’ - fault.” It’s not! MAGA voters choose ignorance, and do everything they can to support it. Don’t make public education a scape goat.

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Elizabeth M. (Massachusetts)'s avatar

John, you're right and I apologize. I did not mean to make our _current_ public education system a scapegoat and I should have clarified. The millenials and Gen Z are showing in their politics that our education system recently is doing a much better job. I'm talking about mostly my generation, Baby Boomers. I went to high school in a suburb of Boston, but civics was not required, the history textbooks were still the kind that glorified what's good about our history and mostly whitewashed or omitted the parts of our past we should be ashamed about. There were only minimal references back then to massacres of Native Americans, to the way white settlers and the U.S. government pushed them off their land and effectively banished them to the least valuable and productive land available, and the government broke treaty after treaty with tribes. Minimal references to the full scope of the brutality of slavery and almost nothing about how the gains of Blacks during Reconstruction were systematically rolled back in Southern states to institute a new form of forced labor and subjugation called Jim Crow. And definitely nothing about slavery in the North. They did teach the injustice of the Salem witch trials and the evils of Senator McCarthy and the Committee on Un-American Activities, I'll give them that. And so forth. I think schools these days do a much better job teaching students everything they need to know to have a balanced view of our history, and critical thinking skills they can apply to current news and events, although Republicans in red states are now trying hard to return public education to the patriotism indoctrination of the 1950s and 1960s. I agree that you can only teach students what they are willing to learn and internalize. To paraphrase Groucho Marx, you can lead fools to culture but you can't make them think.

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Michael Bales's avatar

You're not contradicting me. My point: minds are made up. I don't believe there are large groups of voters on the fence about Jan. 6.

McCarthy and Carlson are doing a good job of keeping those who believe in the rule of law engaged and motivated. Their endeavor keeps Jan. 6 front and center when Republicans should want it to fade away in order to win back the power they so crave.

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Elizabeth M. (Massachusetts)'s avatar

Good point, Michael.

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Elizabeth M. (Massachusetts)'s avatar

Thanks for the link, BK!

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Bill Alstrom (MAtoMainetoMA)'s avatar

Michael, thanks for anchoring this subject in logic.

Any amount of video, statements of fact or lies will make little difference. What will matter is turnout on election days. Yesterday, I was very excited by a post that led me to https://www.turnup.us/

Consider this: "The generational makeup of the United States is shifting dramatically. In 2024, Millennials and Gen Z will account for almost 45% of the electorate."

I say forget Fox and the aging, dying off soon Fox Fools. Concentrate on youth and the future. Cable TV is on a death march. More and more people are cutting the cord. We had dinner last night with some family. A young couple in their late 20s quietly listened as we elders talked about all the TV shows we have enjoyed. They revealed that they don't watch TV. They live on their phones or laptops. He is a mechanical engineer. She is a health care administrator. They are more than the future. They are the now.

It's all about who we can convince to vote. Let's focus on the generations that we can motivate to make a difference. That's what "turnup.us" is doing. It's brilliant.

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Linda Bailey's avatar

Bill that is the problem. Young folk aren't watching television on their televisions, they are watching it on their phones. Young voters or even potential voters have zoned out current issues. If they can control what they watch, it's not going to be the C-Span daily recap or the daily press conference from the White House. It's going to be what's hot on their streaming services.

I listened to a talk last week about "How to get the Youth to the voting booth". It was interesting and chilling.

One of the biggest talking points was if the Supreme Court tanks Bidens plans for college fund reimbursements, so will it do the same for his re election. He will lose the vote of the parents, students who parrot their parents vote and much more. It is a far reaching problem that will point to him, not the source of the problem (bought and paid for Supreme Court).

The wave from the last election has aged out many of the participants. Strength in numbers worked phenomenally last go around. Those same folks don't necessarily have that same social structure. They moved on about their lives. As they should.

That said, turnup.us is a fantastic organization. They were mentioned in the talk I attended last week.

It is the youth that needs to be educated. They will inherent this horribly chaotic world we live in.

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Bill Alstrom (MAtoMainetoMA)'s avatar

Good points. Accurate observations. But I am buoyed by the fact that in the long run the "American Melting Pot" is happening. Younger generations have grown up with diversity and differences as more normal than not.

I am optimistic that tolerance will prevail in the long run. This backward slide into bigotry and autocracy will not hold. Call me naive. But that's how I get through the day :)

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james wheaton (Jay)'s avatar

Linda - wish I could disagree with you, but I cannot. I think that there was some political calculation in the student loan forgiveness plan. A decent idea with decent reasons, but also a political choice to help get out the vote. Same can be said for climate change promises. Issues that ought to be of interest to today's young adults. The Supreme Court, the McCarthy House, the Senate filibuster, and Fox News are doing their best to neuter these efforts entirely. And it is working for the most part. The average young voting age person - I have seen this first hand - will roll their eyes, declare that their government has once again failed them, and call it quits. Move on to something else instead of political awareness and activity. This new generation cannot be accused of being patient or persistent. More likely too many will throw their collective hands up in despair, act like ostriches, and tune out. An act of entitlement, or better yet a failure to act. I now personally think that the student loan forgiveness promise was a miscalculation that is backfiring, a miscalculation that will only better assure more gen Z'ers stay away from the polls on 2024. God I hope I'm wrong.

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Linda Bailey's avatar

Jay, I'm with you 100% .

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Michael Bales's avatar

The demographics you describe should frighten the right. But they're too busy believing the endless lies and misinformation. Or as was often said at a large tech company where I once worked, they breathing their own fumes.

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Irenie's avatar

Michael, Carlson will have to do some creative editing to turn a riot into sightseeing.

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Mike S's avatar

There is plenty of video, in that illegally released set, of dumb white guys walking around inside the Capital looking dumbstruck.

That is what Carlson will feed to the bottom feeders in America.

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Anne Dempsey's avatar

Interesting that Carlson released these videos of protesters “reverently” walking though our Capitol building when he did. Last week, we know, he and other talking heads were exposed as never believing that Trump won 2020, but lying about it to the public. In case anyone on the right believes that Carlson lied, Carlson can drag them back in to the fold with these videos.

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Irenie's avatar

Repubs seem to have short memories, a demented connection with truth. Murdoch and friends admitting they lied, must come down to money. And he and the repubs, the party (cult?) and the followers seem to have an endless supply when it comes to buying “truth.”

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Carole Berkoff's avatar

I live in a Red state & a county that is headquarters for the Freedom Caucus. The spin on the Jan 6th attack is strong with all sorts of variations. I choose not to ignore that too many believe spin over visual facts.

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Susanna J. Sturgis's avatar

The "American consciousness" is no more monolithic than the American electorate is. It may be etched into your consciousness and mine, and we certainly believe it's true. Tucker's video isn't going to sway either of us, but it's likely to confirm millions upon millions of USians in what they already believe to be true.

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Michael Bales's avatar

Good point. The numbers, though, are on our side.

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Susanna J. Sturgis's avatar

This is true -- but gerrymandering and other forms of voter suppression are doing a pretty good job of making majorities look like minorities at the ballot box.

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Michael Bales's avatar

The erosion is indeed steady. Texas has now joined other states trying to bar voting on college campuses.

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Susanna J. Sturgis's avatar

And here in blue Massachusetts, same-day voter registration got dropped from the VOTES Act passed and signed into law last year. Why? It was strenuously opposed by a member of the state house leadership who represents a Boston district with many, many college students. Our state primary is held in early September, and he was afraid of being primaried by newly registered student voters.

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Virginia Witmer's avatar

But which “truth” is etched in? The true truth or the “alternate truth”? More likely than not, both.

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Eric O'Donnell's avatar

I couldn’t agree more - with your first sentence. To wit: he is also not changing the minds of tens of millions of Trump supporters. He is merely strengthening a narrative they clutch to without reserve, and providing video documentation. This will be used, incredibly I might add, to continue to prop up America’s most powerful and despicable lie. Carlson is amplifying a view that will coax from willing martyrs a terroristic response at some point when the fuse has been lit by some other relatively insignificant action.

How this got from the government to the media this easily is a total shock to me. The comparison may be inapt and I apologize if it is. But, on the one hand the law allows lengthy stays of justice based on the most specious, absurd grounds (I’m thinking at the moment of Pence’s “I’ll have it both ways” challenge in order not to testify). On the other hand, a government official can simply hand over raw American history unchecked by any rule to a single entity which is now probably the most corrupt media outlet of power America has ever been subjected to.

The legal system is fast becoming a dangerous joke for its inability to avoid twisting itself into knots allowing appeal after appeal after appeal. Justice delayed through too clever by half appeals to the nooks and crannies of the laws is justice denied.

I am reminded of Ernest Wilde’s play Salome grossly orgiastic and profane written in the depths of his libertinism being banned from Germany at the turn of the 20th century. When public demand for this spectacle became intense, the Kaiserin managed to get the authorities to evade the ban by the simple expedient of insisting that the Star of the Magi appear at the end of each performance, symbolizing the triumph of good over evil. Two hours of blood-soaked orgiastic wallowing was redeemed by a one minute appearance of the star. This is the kind of hypocrisy American law now excels in.

I have blamed and continue to blame Merrick Garland for his tortured waste of time at the beginning of his term, using valuable effort and resources to try to convince those whose ears are stopped to him that he really was an even-handed good guy who would apply the law equally to both sides. It was a cowardly failure. And now we are reaping the results as Trump promises to run if indicted. *Of course* he will. What does he have to lose. Rachel Maddie’s utterly lame comparison of Trump to Spiro Agnew last night was a joke. These are far far more turbulent times - the zeitgeist is completely different.

Professor Cox Richardson’s piece seemed a bit overblown to me until I thought for two seconds. It is one of her darkest warnings yet, in a quiet but unmistakeable tone that she rarely uses. From her vast experience and knowledge, she sees a probability that is deeply unsettling. Best we listen.

Apologize for length.

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Eric O'Donnell's avatar

I have posted this elsewhere as a specific reply to Michael Bates’ comment that Carlson is not changing any minds. With whatever logic Substack applies, it did not appear here so did not look the least relevant. I am reposting in a second effort to place it properly. I apologize to those who notice it twice if this is considered bad form.

---

I couldn’t agree more - with your first sentence. To wit: he is also not changing the minds of tens of millions of Trump supporters. He is merely strengthening a narrative they clutch to without reserve, and providing video documentation. This will be used, incredibly I might add, to continue to prop up America’s most powerful and despicable lie. Carlson is amplifying a view that will coax from willing martyrs a terroristic response at some point when the fuse has been lit by some other relatively insignificant action.

How this got from the government to the media this easily is a total shock to me. The comparison may be inapt and I apologize if it is. But, on the one hand the law allows lengthy stays of justice based on the most specious, absurd grounds (I’m thinking at the moment of Pence’s “I’ll have it both ways” challenge in order not to testify). On the other hand, a government official can simply hand over raw American history unchecked by any rule to a single entity which is now probably the most corrupt media outlet of power America has ever been subjected to.

The legal system is fast becoming a dangerous joke for its inability to avoid twisting itself into knots allowing appeal after appeal after appeal. Justice delayed through too clever by half appeals to the nooks and crannies of the laws is justice denied.

I am reminded of Ernest Wilde’s play Salome grossly orgiastic and profane written in the depths of his libertinism being banned from Germany at the turn of the 20th century. When public demand for this spectacle became intense, the Kaiserin managed to get the authorities to evade the ban by the simple expedient of insisting that the Star of the Magi appear at the end of each performance, symbolizing the triumph of good over evil. Two hours of blood-soaked orgiastic wallowing was redeemed by a one minute appearance of the star. This is the kind of hypocrisy American law now excels in.

I have blamed and continue to blame Merrick Garland for his tortured waste of time at the beginning of his term, using valuable effort and resources to try to convince those whose ears are stopped to him that he really was an even-handed good guy who would apply the law equally to both sides. It was a cowardly failure. And now we are reaping the results as Trump promises to run if indicted. *Of course* he will. What does he have to lose. Rachel Maddie’s utterly lame comparison of Trump to Spiro Agnew last night was a joke. These are far far more turbulent times - the zeitgeist is completely different.

Professor Cox Richardson’s piece seemed a bit overblown to me until I thought for two seconds. It is one of her darkest warnings yet, in a quiet but unmistakeable tone that she rarely uses. From her vast experience and knowledge, she sees a probability that is deeply unsettling. Best we listen.

Apologize for length.

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