As the Biden administration sets out to restore a government that can regulate business to level the playing field in the United States between workers and employers, address inequality, and combat climate change, Republicans are turning to the courts to stop him.
Anyone who doesn't see the Republicans as the new Confederate Enemy in what they have declared as a civil war probably still believes in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, and that the sun will rise in the west tomorrow morning. Like it or not, they have declared themselves the insurgents and declared war on the country. If they think they can nullify federal rules and laws, this is actionable treason. The party is now irredeemably treasonous.
I agree with you, this is a resumption of the Civil War, by other means for the moment. The GOP knows that if HR1/S1 passes, followed by an environmentally friendly infrastructure bill, and if DC becomes a state, their days of minority rule are likely over. Then the danger could be what, secession of the South again? The possibilities raised by HCR's Letter today are mind-blowing and scary.
That's exactly what scares the crap out of them. That's why they become reactionary. They see the light at the end of their tunnel - and it is an onrushing locomotive. What is truly incredible to me is that all those things you mention are possible within the next few months. And my bet is that they will happen.
They're trying their best to enact everything they possibly can and trying to block everything they possibly can BEFORE they no longer can. It reminds me of a tenant being forced out of a flat and destroying it before they leave. I just saw an article a day or two ago about the almost certain disaster to the Republican party if they get HR1/S1 defeated. McConnell even knows it in his evil, wicked heart. It could all very easily blow up in their faces. It's going to be interesting to see how things proceed, since we have like 4 different factions within Congress, especially the Senate...moderate Democrats vs progressives, and traditional, conservative Republicans (McConnell) vs ReTrumplicans swearing fealty to T***p. Both the more moderate factions of both parties actually seem to have a desire to work with each other, while the more vocal, extremist wings of both parties do not. Trying to steer through this kind of political landscape is going to continue to be rocky for ALL involved. Meanwhile...the people are out here saying, "Hello there! Um...remember us??"
I'm trying to figure out where this idea that Progressives don't work with Democrats comes from. It seems to be another assumption that everything has to be looked at from a binary perspective. Progressives routinely work collaboratively with moderate Dems. In the states I am familiar with there is no such thing as "moderate Democrats vs Progressives. They may quibble over details, but they work together toward shared values and goals. The Republicans are visibly split, and actively obstructionist, not just with Dems but among themselves (how they have been keeping potential collaborators within the party line, using control over election funding and committee assignments and anything else to lean on them.
Keep in mind that there are Capitol Republicans, who are their own enclosed culture, and there are various kinds of Republicans out in the nation as a whole. The latter are not under the control of the Republicans in WaDC. Folks out in the states are a motley group that range from weird to simply dedicatedly fiscally conservative. Some have distanced themselves decidedly from Rs in WaDC. Some have cut ties with the Republican party altogether, or have made it clear that they do not consider themselves the same as McConnell's clique. There are some who are even odder than McConnell's little coterie, and possibly scarier.
Yep, it is rocky, all right. But I don't think the Republicans at this point can be divided into neat little groups that will or will not work with other factions. Republicans have relied on lock-step control for so long that when that falters, their whole approach starts disintegrating. Dems aren't neat little factions, either, but then they never have been, which may be why they seem to be able to find ways to work together, and to work with Republicans who share the kind of human values we all hope will prevail.
Moderation - in a time of catastrophic climate change, devastating escalation of poverty (13.7 million of households facing food insecurity in 2019 USA - pre-pandemic), gargantuan explosion of billionaire wealth, 27.5 million Americans without health insurance (2018-US Census), $746 billion on wars and the military for the fiscal year running through September 2020 (google), 800 military bases in more than 70 countries and territories abroad (google) - and the machinations of "moderates" have the vision required to meet the impact on lives these facts have? Are the "moderates" of both parties going to save the day? How have the "moderates" demonstrated they are competent to meet the requirements for change that these facts demand? Can the "moderates" regain the status quo prior to Trump? Is that what matters? the status quo? Didn't that status quo fertilize the ascendancy of Trump et al? If so, then what must - must - happen?
The GOP is gone as you and I knew it. It is a carbon copy of the Nationalist Socialist Party from the 1930's and 1940's. It has crept out of the darkness to look for the light. Hopefully the sunshine will blind it back under the rocks.
I scarcely dare to hope. Sleepy Joe is doing pretty well so far, much better than I expected, but he needs to ratchet things up a notch, then we'll know. Buckle up and hold on tight(ly).
Here's the deal: let's retire the Sleepy Joe epithet now and forever, please. It is NOT an affectionate nickname; it is last year's GQP insult to a dedicated career public servant who proves his fitness for office every day. Deal? Deal!
Agree. Also, I don't understand why it's national news when someone trips climbing a set of stairs. Who cares? I sure as heck don't. Did the media really need to cover that fact when Biden went to Georgia to speak about the more important issue of Attacks on Asian-Americans? No. Media needs to invoke the Franklin D. Roosevelt rule.
Hillary did her best. Unfortunately due to outside interference from Russia Trump and his friends surprised everyone. They tried to win "Las Vegas" and instead won the country and the US Treasury. Fortunately, they stayed too long and talked to much. Hopefully they will get what they deserve before very long.
Hillary did her best, but it was not quite good enough. Even on her worst day she was better than the liars and thieves from Marilargo.
Well, he certainly appears to be relieving us of some of the immediate crushing Trump decisions. Yet, do we see any structural changes? Any changes to our imperialist aspirations? any boundaries set to nullify the revolving door between governmental official and lobbying firms-think tanks? any changes in our killing health care for profit? Any lessening of the power of insurance companies? How about Medicare for All? behemoth monopolies and the strangling of competition? the endless wars that suck the marrow out of chances for programs for the public good? Anything that gets to the core problem of who pulls the strings in our oligarchy /inverted totalitarian government? The ones orchestrating and funding the playbook we witness in the Capitol mobsterism and the current suits being brought by these states? Are these times calling us to place emphasis on discarding descriptors to be nice? or fiercely insistent on structural change and seeing, speaking the truth?
Isn't it nice to wake up each morning and not immediately get anxious about some new Tweet or crisis? I want a President who is working not talking. But Republicans I know tell me he has to get out of the basement and go around having rallies. When did anyone other than Trump do this other than trying to get support for a specific bill. Yes go around for HR1 or Covid but to me I'm happy to not hear from.Biden every minute
I hope you read the posts by people who live in the South and are working hard to re-reconstruct democracy and responsible government in their states- and make real progress. When I look at what is going on around the county, I think there may be a real possibility that the South may be the ones that show the rest of us the way to get there.
Yes, I read several such comments, and I really appreciate their work. Helped out a little myself through phone banking. If it weren't for the Georgia miracle, we'd be toast already. I lived in the South for a total of 30 years, plus Kansas for my first 18, so I think I know those people well. Black people comprise over 25% of the electorates in five southern states: Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, Mississippi, and South Carolina. Black voters (if they are allowed to vote, which is problematic in those states and a couple dozen others, South and North), together with the 25% of the southern white electorate who are decent human beings, come to just barely enough voters to win statewide elections. Democrats could win statewide elections in Texas, too, if the Latino turnout were as high as it is, say, in California. Elections in House districts are gerrymandered, so they are beyond the reach of the majority for the foreseeable future, but governors, secretaries of state, state attorneys general, and US Senators could, with monumental effort, be elected in those six states, and that might be just enough to save the republic.
Annie, the worm in that apple is that the South is so heavily gerrymandered, Democrats don't even have a vote, except in Senate and Presidential elections. In the county I live in, there are no Democratic candidates for local or state offices, or if a Dem does manage to run for the General Assembly, it's basically a suicide mission. Which makes it near impossible to recruit viable candidates and raise money for them. And now our 'lawmakers' have made all judicial races partisan again, so even the courts are being stacked against us.
Quite a few people are moving to places like Georgia, Texas, and Alabama to help make those changes happen. If Repubs can deliberately make things unfair, then Dems can do something similar but in the voice of equity.
How can you think that way. We are one country. That is a fact. The days of session are long behind us. Those traitors are long gone. This new bunch will follow them and without big battles.
Red states could never secede because Blue states support them. They could never survive and they know it. As much as they complain about liberal New Yorkers or Californians they need us more than we need them.
You would definitely think so, but red voters have been voting against their own material interests for so long, hoping to return us to their fantasy world of the "happy" 1950s, that they might just keep doing it. Hope they don't, but.... they might.
Somehow I don't think it would be that easy. They would expect us to pay them, given what passes for normal in the minds of Trumplicans and their fellow travelers.
They are not really a solid block either as Blue pockets exist and are growing throughout the South in the urban areas. As before the Civil War they certainly wouldn't want to ask for popular permission to take this step as they probably wouldn't get it.....without going for a strictly "white" vote....and even then probably not. The exoerience of some of their ancesters might be instructive....Scotland's rejection of independence from UK for instance. An understanding of "who pays the piper" is very instructive in such campaigns; the massive drop in wealth and gigantic increase in taxes from such a move and the start-up of a new currency...the Boll prehaps....would be enough to shrivel the "nuts" of any putative conspiratory macho fool. Thereafter, would Texas want to pay for the rest of them...I think not. They would just become new neanderthal cheap oil and gas producer.....a new middle eastern potentat perhaps.
No secession ever again, under any circumstances. The Union is indivisible, and has been since the Articles of Confederation, i.e. before the Constitution. It relieves our frustration and is fun to say "good riddance," but it would create far more problems than it solves.
As Stuart and Bruce note, it means abandoning tens of millions of loyal US citizens to the un-tender mercies of unregulated business and white supremacy. Imagine how much worse the Texas utility disaster would be without federal aid.
A divided US would also be constant prey to hostile powers. The seceded portion would form alliances with governments whose presence, military or other, would destabilize the Western Hemisphere. That would have happened with a permanently independent Confederacy in the 19C. It would have allied with major European powers, most notably Imperial/Nazi Germany. The D-Day invasion would haven been launched across the Potomac River, perhaps even the Delaware or Hudson.
For better or worse, we are indissolubly linked and must face our problems together.
We may not like the circumstances, but trying to figure out how to work things out is a heck of a lot better than the alternative.
It might behoove some to look at a political map of the US in terms of Blue vs Red. The ones I've seen show a lot more land considered Red than Blue. In my state of Washington, the Democrats live on the coast, while a majority of the state is red. In the Red zone is the mineral wealth, the agriculture with the most important product being potatoes used for McDonalds and the wineries!
The Civil War (the first one) decided that States could not secede. Confirmed by the US Supreme Court in 1869. One nation, under God, Indivisible. Here's a great article by the Texas Tribune on the arguments and conclusion: https://www.texastribune.org/2021/01/29/texas-secession/ The white nationalists and their ilk who believe civil war would be good for their cause are spread throughout the country with no clear geographic boundaries. Even in Texas it isn't even clear who would have the most guns.
Please! Don't forget there ARE some VERY blue urban islands in the South that would be left high & dry if the South, or red states, went their separate ways. That is just not feasible. The urban vs rural divide complicates everything.
Of course there are - hey, in the Civil War, over 100,000 Southerners served in the Union Army, something the Lost Causers have managed to whitewash out of Southern history.
I don't think a second civil war in this country would be geographical in nature, which makes the possibility far scarier..
Well I saw a program on all the IT major companies that have moved their base of operations from CA to Texas from Silicon valley. There is no income tax there and the cost of living is minimal compared to CA. Not sure how these younger, very wealthy companies will use their collective power, but it makes me a bit nervous they are consolidating in Texas. Are they republicans dressed like democrats?
Hey, Proud Boys, hard to shoot straight when you're clutching your "nuts".
Sure, secession would be complicated, and we should not forget the Hell that broke out when India became independent from the British and split into what are today Pakistan and Bangladesh, both mainly Muslim, and India proper, mainly Hindu. Quite a bloody business and still unresolved in Kashmir, with nuclear arms occasionally rattling. I wonder how many nukes Texas has?
Hard to believe we are having this discussion. There is only one country and that is the United States of America. Remember all those oaths we took? Well, here we are still one country.
Stuart, see above. Is it faith, or is it delusion? Or is there a difference. Not being snarky here. Does one apply in some circumstances, and not others? Serious question.
Sun comes up in the east whether we believe it or not ...can't thus be delusional as long as we are talking about eyes open and looking in the right direction....no need for faith there. If only religion was so easy! In the latter someone's faith is delusion for another and so can be thought to apply at the same time. For faith and delusion to depend on circumstances...it can happen i would think if particular elements of the credo depend on "miracles" and these can be judged as symbolic and marginal without subtrating from the core beliefs. More frequently one will follow the other in either order leading to apostasy, conversion or entry in a faith...especially when life changes dramatically for one reason or another.
Stuart, I realize my question is as old as time. What cuts across both fields is the human need to make sense of our world, I think. Over eons we have devised - and continue to devise - means to do that. For some it is religion, for some it is science, for some it is some other belief system. But we all have a need to try to make the world make sense, to avoid the uncertainty of chaos. Which is ironic, considering Trumpsters seem to thrive on chaos! At least creating it for the rest of us, while they are snug in their little Trumpian delusions. And yes, that's a value judgement on my part!😏😉😎
Very true concerning the need to try to understand the world around you, the reason for our being here etc and all is not "yet" science as we know and understand so little of it all but I think a certain degree of chaos makes the world go round; we just like to feel reasonably in control of the process. We call it change or progress......others are threatened by that "chaos" as it might irremedially alter their own certainties and they are very afraid of that and what they will find....hence Trump's success in politics if not business.....he hit on a chord that resonates strongly.
I lived in Tally 10 years and now in Jax. I know what you mean! I feel like I’m in The Twilight Zone. My brother just last week forcibly said he’s happy to suffer for the next 4 years if it meant the democrats would suffer too. Wha? Why does anyone have to suffer? Why can’t we support each other?
"I have never lived anywhere where there is so much willful stupidity and where people are proud of their stupidity." Hazel, I have often said exactly the same about Randolph County, NC. It goes far beyond just voting against their own self-interest. It's some kind of delusion, some kind of mental illness or something. To look straight at a tree and say, 'no, that's not a tree, that's a rose bush', is just beyond my ken. PS, growing up in South Florida, we always figured Tallahassee and Jax were really part of Georgia. 😁
It brings to mind Belgian surrealist painter Magritte's work....."this is not a pipe". But do remember that you put a name on what your eyes see according to how your brain has previously been programmed.
I think of it as the folly of the masses. Marx said religion was the opiate of the people. Currently, the former guy and Russian social media seem to have superseded.
It is amazing what atrocities have been done in the name of religion just as it is amazing what good has also prevailed. Certainly we live in a Yin/Yang world. I do wonder where are all the Christians who are not fanatics or fascists-- what are they thinking about those who use religion as a mask of protection? Fanatics and abusers exist in certain religions. They need to be called out. Silence is complicity.
The last time I was in Mississippi, the kkk, dressed in their Sunday Best white robes, were blocking traffic in order to hand out their racist flyers. It was a hot day, so their faces weren't covered. Guess it was a 'hoods optional' day. More likely, they had no reason to hide their faces. Full of hate. Absolutely one of the worst things I've ever experienced.
"Once my husband retires--less than 4 years--we're outta here. " Hazel - wise move!! I'm debating going back to the Keys for my 56th high school reunion. Most of us are no longer on the Keys, of course, several no longer on the planet, but I am quite sure I have little to nothing in common with the bulk of them. One reason I left the Keys in the first place, of course. Square peg in the round hole and all that. Good look in your endeavors!
Can you imagine Ron DeSantis as President?! I'm in St. Augustine. Born & raised in Alabama. I understand too well what you are saying. Paddling 70 miles this week on the Chipola River, just west of Tally. The devastation of Hurricane Michael is jaw-dropping. Why no funds? The Governor said, no thank you!
I am still amazed at how stupid so many of the people here in Florida are. Just the fact that DeathSantis is overwhelmingly favored to win re-election as governor and then is ahead of the line to be the next Republican nominee for president tells you all you need to know about Florida.
Up to now, I have preferred to refer to those who repeatedly vote against their own interests in Florida and elsewhere as "ignorant" or "gullible" and specifically tried to avoid referring to them as "stupid." Now, finally, their continued support of the former president makes that adjective seems more appropriate. (As for Florida, enough of the large number of retirees here bring with them a rear-view mirror orientation which causes them to vote as if it they can recapture the past. That will never change.)
IT is one of the best epithets I've heard so far. Only two letters to type saves valuable time, though the shift key may be more attention than IT deserves.
Let’s see how the Supreme Court decides on these issues. I think the decisions may be more nuanced than we might expect. After all, the judges have grandchildren too and the implications of these issues could affect generations.
I have long been galled and saddened that Clarence Thomas sits in Thurgood Marshall's chair --a mental and moral Lilliputian occupying the place of a giant. I know it's wrong, but I confess to looking forward to the news that Thomas has had his well deserved heart attack or stroke; can't come to soon.
Pam this is just my optimism and I know I could be terribly wrong. Yes if they wanted to obliterate the ability of government to create agencies to delegate there are enough of them to do that. It would be so radical though. I think Roberts wouldn’t go that far. They do have concern for their legacies.
Liz if conservatives were worried about their legacies they’d have convicted DJT. The focus is their next election and placating the voters -of whom they are afraid(?!)- enough to block any outflanking from the right. Demoralizing, craven, jaw-dropping selfishness
It's not just optimism. If SCOTUS votes in favor of the issue, the Biden administration and Democrats will add states and expand The Court. Then the Repugs could lose all power.
Breyer's continuing refusal to retire so that Biden can fill his seat this year is a real problem. The hubris of the SCOTUS members . . . As much as I loved RBG, she really needed to retire when Obama was president.
From past behavior, it appears as though the wealthy believe they can eat money, buy their way out of climate chaos, and be somehow insulated from the effects of their greed. SCOTUS is outnumbered by the mental and moral Lilliputians...
Anyone who doesn't see the Republicans as the new Confederate Enemy in what they have declared as a civil war probably still believes in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, and that the sun will rise in the west tomorrow morning. Like it or not, they have declared themselves the insurgents and declared war on the country. If they think they can nullify federal rules and laws, this is actionable treason. The party is now irredeemably treasonous.
I agree with you, this is a resumption of the Civil War, by other means for the moment. The GOP knows that if HR1/S1 passes, followed by an environmentally friendly infrastructure bill, and if DC becomes a state, their days of minority rule are likely over. Then the danger could be what, secession of the South again? The possibilities raised by HCR's Letter today are mind-blowing and scary.
That's exactly what scares the crap out of them. That's why they become reactionary. They see the light at the end of their tunnel - and it is an onrushing locomotive. What is truly incredible to me is that all those things you mention are possible within the next few months. And my bet is that they will happen.
They're trying their best to enact everything they possibly can and trying to block everything they possibly can BEFORE they no longer can. It reminds me of a tenant being forced out of a flat and destroying it before they leave. I just saw an article a day or two ago about the almost certain disaster to the Republican party if they get HR1/S1 defeated. McConnell even knows it in his evil, wicked heart. It could all very easily blow up in their faces. It's going to be interesting to see how things proceed, since we have like 4 different factions within Congress, especially the Senate...moderate Democrats vs progressives, and traditional, conservative Republicans (McConnell) vs ReTrumplicans swearing fealty to T***p. Both the more moderate factions of both parties actually seem to have a desire to work with each other, while the more vocal, extremist wings of both parties do not. Trying to steer through this kind of political landscape is going to continue to be rocky for ALL involved. Meanwhile...the people are out here saying, "Hello there! Um...remember us??"
I'm trying to figure out where this idea that Progressives don't work with Democrats comes from. It seems to be another assumption that everything has to be looked at from a binary perspective. Progressives routinely work collaboratively with moderate Dems. In the states I am familiar with there is no such thing as "moderate Democrats vs Progressives. They may quibble over details, but they work together toward shared values and goals. The Republicans are visibly split, and actively obstructionist, not just with Dems but among themselves (how they have been keeping potential collaborators within the party line, using control over election funding and committee assignments and anything else to lean on them.
Keep in mind that there are Capitol Republicans, who are their own enclosed culture, and there are various kinds of Republicans out in the nation as a whole. The latter are not under the control of the Republicans in WaDC. Folks out in the states are a motley group that range from weird to simply dedicatedly fiscally conservative. Some have distanced themselves decidedly from Rs in WaDC. Some have cut ties with the Republican party altogether, or have made it clear that they do not consider themselves the same as McConnell's clique. There are some who are even odder than McConnell's little coterie, and possibly scarier.
Yep, it is rocky, all right. But I don't think the Republicans at this point can be divided into neat little groups that will or will not work with other factions. Republicans have relied on lock-step control for so long that when that falters, their whole approach starts disintegrating. Dems aren't neat little factions, either, but then they never have been, which may be why they seem to be able to find ways to work together, and to work with Republicans who share the kind of human values we all hope will prevail.
Moderation - in a time of catastrophic climate change, devastating escalation of poverty (13.7 million of households facing food insecurity in 2019 USA - pre-pandemic), gargantuan explosion of billionaire wealth, 27.5 million Americans without health insurance (2018-US Census), $746 billion on wars and the military for the fiscal year running through September 2020 (google), 800 military bases in more than 70 countries and territories abroad (google) - and the machinations of "moderates" have the vision required to meet the impact on lives these facts have? Are the "moderates" of both parties going to save the day? How have the "moderates" demonstrated they are competent to meet the requirements for change that these facts demand? Can the "moderates" regain the status quo prior to Trump? Is that what matters? the status quo? Didn't that status quo fertilize the ascendancy of Trump et al? If so, then what must - must - happen?
Trouble is.....thesemoderates are the people that the vaste majority of citizens want to see in power.... like it or not the "radicals" on either side
The political system seems to empower the extremes in both parties. They are the ones that bring passion over logic to our politics.
The GOP is gone as you and I knew it. It is a carbon copy of the Nationalist Socialist Party from the 1930's and 1940's. It has crept out of the darkness to look for the light. Hopefully the sunshine will blind it back under the rocks.
Insurrection II, but with CEOs and Judges hacking at Democrats with flag poles.
Hacking is for the plebes. It's more civil and certainly quite upright to deftly insert the poles.
Ouch!
I felt that!
I scarcely dare to hope. Sleepy Joe is doing pretty well so far, much better than I expected, but he needs to ratchet things up a notch, then we'll know. Buckle up and hold on tight(ly).
Here's the deal: let's retire the Sleepy Joe epithet now and forever, please. It is NOT an affectionate nickname; it is last year's GQP insult to a dedicated career public servant who proves his fitness for office every day. Deal? Deal!
My apologies, you're right. My thought was affectionate, but the words careless. I'll try to stop digging this hole before I get started..
That's the spirit!
Agree. Also, I don't understand why it's national news when someone trips climbing a set of stairs. Who cares? I sure as heck don't. Did the media really need to cover that fact when Biden went to Georgia to speak about the more important issue of Attacks on Asian-Americans? No. Media needs to invoke the Franklin D. Roosevelt rule.
Hillary did her best. Unfortunately due to outside interference from Russia Trump and his friends surprised everyone. They tried to win "Las Vegas" and instead won the country and the US Treasury. Fortunately, they stayed too long and talked to much. Hopefully they will get what they deserve before very long.
Hillary did her best, but it was not quite good enough. Even on her worst day she was better than the liars and thieves from Marilargo.
I hear you— I felt so bad to see him stumble— but they mentioned the wind was strong and smiled at the top. It’s just the nature of our media.
Well, he certainly appears to be relieving us of some of the immediate crushing Trump decisions. Yet, do we see any structural changes? Any changes to our imperialist aspirations? any boundaries set to nullify the revolving door between governmental official and lobbying firms-think tanks? any changes in our killing health care for profit? Any lessening of the power of insurance companies? How about Medicare for All? behemoth monopolies and the strangling of competition? the endless wars that suck the marrow out of chances for programs for the public good? Anything that gets to the core problem of who pulls the strings in our oligarchy /inverted totalitarian government? The ones orchestrating and funding the playbook we witness in the Capitol mobsterism and the current suits being brought by these states? Are these times calling us to place emphasis on discarding descriptors to be nice? or fiercely insistent on structural change and seeing, speaking the truth?
Patience. 1st save thhe country. 2. ...
Isn't it nice to wake up each morning and not immediately get anxious about some new Tweet or crisis? I want a President who is working not talking. But Republicans I know tell me he has to get out of the basement and go around having rallies. When did anyone other than Trump do this other than trying to get support for a specific bill. Yes go around for HR1 or Covid but to me I'm happy to not hear from.Biden every minute
If the South secedes again, I hope we’ll have the wisdom to let them go this time.
I hope you read the posts by people who live in the South and are working hard to re-reconstruct democracy and responsible government in their states- and make real progress. When I look at what is going on around the county, I think there may be a real possibility that the South may be the ones that show the rest of us the way to get there.
Yes, I read several such comments, and I really appreciate their work. Helped out a little myself through phone banking. If it weren't for the Georgia miracle, we'd be toast already. I lived in the South for a total of 30 years, plus Kansas for my first 18, so I think I know those people well. Black people comprise over 25% of the electorates in five southern states: Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, Mississippi, and South Carolina. Black voters (if they are allowed to vote, which is problematic in those states and a couple dozen others, South and North), together with the 25% of the southern white electorate who are decent human beings, come to just barely enough voters to win statewide elections. Democrats could win statewide elections in Texas, too, if the Latino turnout were as high as it is, say, in California. Elections in House districts are gerrymandered, so they are beyond the reach of the majority for the foreseeable future, but governors, secretaries of state, state attorneys general, and US Senators could, with monumental effort, be elected in those six states, and that might be just enough to save the republic.
Annie, the worm in that apple is that the South is so heavily gerrymandered, Democrats don't even have a vote, except in Senate and Presidential elections. In the county I live in, there are no Democratic candidates for local or state offices, or if a Dem does manage to run for the General Assembly, it's basically a suicide mission. Which makes it near impossible to recruit viable candidates and raise money for them. And now our 'lawmakers' have made all judicial races partisan again, so even the courts are being stacked against us.
HR1- S1
By any chance, would you happen to live in NC?
JennSH, yes, mid-state. Red, red Randolph County.
Quite a few people are moving to places like Georgia, Texas, and Alabama to help make those changes happen. If Repubs can deliberately make things unfair, then Dems can do something similar but in the voice of equity.
How can you think that way. We are one country. That is a fact. The days of session are long behind us. Those traitors are long gone. This new bunch will follow them and without big battles.
Red states could never secede because Blue states support them. They could never survive and they know it. As much as they complain about liberal New Yorkers or Californians they need us more than we need them.
You would definitely think so, but red voters have been voting against their own material interests for so long, hoping to return us to their fantasy world of the "happy" 1950s, that they might just keep doing it. Hope they don't, but.... they might.
Somehow I don't think it would be that easy. They would expect us to pay them, given what passes for normal in the minds of Trumplicans and their fellow travelers.
They are not really a solid block either as Blue pockets exist and are growing throughout the South in the urban areas. As before the Civil War they certainly wouldn't want to ask for popular permission to take this step as they probably wouldn't get it.....without going for a strictly "white" vote....and even then probably not. The exoerience of some of their ancesters might be instructive....Scotland's rejection of independence from UK for instance. An understanding of "who pays the piper" is very instructive in such campaigns; the massive drop in wealth and gigantic increase in taxes from such a move and the start-up of a new currency...the Boll prehaps....would be enough to shrivel the "nuts" of any putative conspiratory macho fool. Thereafter, would Texas want to pay for the rest of them...I think not. They would just become new neanderthal cheap oil and gas producer.....a new middle eastern potentat perhaps.
No secession ever again, under any circumstances. The Union is indivisible, and has been since the Articles of Confederation, i.e. before the Constitution. It relieves our frustration and is fun to say "good riddance," but it would create far more problems than it solves.
As Stuart and Bruce note, it means abandoning tens of millions of loyal US citizens to the un-tender mercies of unregulated business and white supremacy. Imagine how much worse the Texas utility disaster would be without federal aid.
A divided US would also be constant prey to hostile powers. The seceded portion would form alliances with governments whose presence, military or other, would destabilize the Western Hemisphere. That would have happened with a permanently independent Confederacy in the 19C. It would have allied with major European powers, most notably Imperial/Nazi Germany. The D-Day invasion would haven been launched across the Potomac River, perhaps even the Delaware or Hudson.
For better or worse, we are indissolubly linked and must face our problems together.
Well said.
We may not like the circumstances, but trying to figure out how to work things out is a heck of a lot better than the alternative.
It might behoove some to look at a political map of the US in terms of Blue vs Red. The ones I've seen show a lot more land considered Red than Blue. In my state of Washington, the Democrats live on the coast, while a majority of the state is red. In the Red zone is the mineral wealth, the agriculture with the most important product being potatoes used for McDonalds and the wineries!
Yes. Otherwise Putin would win.
The Civil War (the first one) decided that States could not secede. Confirmed by the US Supreme Court in 1869. One nation, under God, Indivisible. Here's a great article by the Texas Tribune on the arguments and conclusion: https://www.texastribune.org/2021/01/29/texas-secession/ The white nationalists and their ilk who believe civil war would be good for their cause are spread throughout the country with no clear geographic boundaries. Even in Texas it isn't even clear who would have the most guns.
Please! Don't forget there ARE some VERY blue urban islands in the South that would be left high & dry if the South, or red states, went their separate ways. That is just not feasible. The urban vs rural divide complicates everything.
Of course there are - hey, in the Civil War, over 100,000 Southerners served in the Union Army, something the Lost Causers have managed to whitewash out of Southern history.
I don't think a second civil war in this country would be geographical in nature, which makes the possibility far scarier..
Well I saw a program on all the IT major companies that have moved their base of operations from CA to Texas from Silicon valley. There is no income tax there and the cost of living is minimal compared to CA. Not sure how these younger, very wealthy companies will use their collective power, but it makes me a bit nervous they are consolidating in Texas. Are they republicans dressed like democrats?
Hey, Proud Boys, hard to shoot straight when you're clutching your "nuts".
Sure, secession would be complicated, and we should not forget the Hell that broke out when India became independent from the British and split into what are today Pakistan and Bangladesh, both mainly Muslim, and India proper, mainly Hindu. Quite a bloody business and still unresolved in Kashmir, with nuclear arms occasionally rattling. I wonder how many nukes Texas has?
As my MIL used to say, don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out!
Or..."don't let that door hit ya where the good Lord split ya!"
😂
Lord why can’t we just pull ourselves together? We could go so far if only we could see ourselves as riding on the same planet.
I keep saying Lincoln should have let the South go! Someone even wrote a book about that.
Hard to believe we are having this discussion. There is only one country and that is the United States of America. Remember all those oaths we took? Well, here we are still one country.
At least today, the sun is still rising in the east. I just saw it.
ah but did you have to see it to believe it? Faith is a wonderful thing.
Stuart, see above. Is it faith, or is it delusion? Or is there a difference. Not being snarky here. Does one apply in some circumstances, and not others? Serious question.
Sun comes up in the east whether we believe it or not ...can't thus be delusional as long as we are talking about eyes open and looking in the right direction....no need for faith there. If only religion was so easy! In the latter someone's faith is delusion for another and so can be thought to apply at the same time. For faith and delusion to depend on circumstances...it can happen i would think if particular elements of the credo depend on "miracles" and these can be judged as symbolic and marginal without subtrating from the core beliefs. More frequently one will follow the other in either order leading to apostasy, conversion or entry in a faith...especially when life changes dramatically for one reason or another.
Stuart, I realize my question is as old as time. What cuts across both fields is the human need to make sense of our world, I think. Over eons we have devised - and continue to devise - means to do that. For some it is religion, for some it is science, for some it is some other belief system. But we all have a need to try to make the world make sense, to avoid the uncertainty of chaos. Which is ironic, considering Trumpsters seem to thrive on chaos! At least creating it for the rest of us, while they are snug in their little Trumpian delusions. And yes, that's a value judgement on my part!😏😉😎
Very true concerning the need to try to understand the world around you, the reason for our being here etc and all is not "yet" science as we know and understand so little of it all but I think a certain degree of chaos makes the world go round; we just like to feel reasonably in control of the process. We call it change or progress......others are threatened by that "chaos" as it might irremedially alter their own certainties and they are very afraid of that and what they will find....hence Trump's success in politics if not business.....he hit on a chord that resonates strongly.
Thanks, Sandra. Chaos theory is sound, but chaos without theory is just, well, a mess. Cf. 2020.
I've never really struggled with holding to science along with faith, but trending more toward science.
Where are you, I’m in Atlanta and we are a long way from sunrise 🌅 though I do believe it will indeed rise in the east? 😎
I'm on top of a ridge in the Apennine foothills looking east toward the Adriatic, about 6 hours ahead of you.
A room with a wonderful view!
Good for you!!!
I lived in Tally 10 years and now in Jax. I know what you mean! I feel like I’m in The Twilight Zone. My brother just last week forcibly said he’s happy to suffer for the next 4 years if it meant the democrats would suffer too. Wha? Why does anyone have to suffer? Why can’t we support each other?
Why can’t we all just get along?
Sadly, there are so many pockets of delusion all over our country and gerrymandering gets the minority elected.
"I have never lived anywhere where there is so much willful stupidity and where people are proud of their stupidity." Hazel, I have often said exactly the same about Randolph County, NC. It goes far beyond just voting against their own self-interest. It's some kind of delusion, some kind of mental illness or something. To look straight at a tree and say, 'no, that's not a tree, that's a rose bush', is just beyond my ken. PS, growing up in South Florida, we always figured Tallahassee and Jax were really part of Georgia. 😁
It brings to mind Belgian surrealist painter Magritte's work....."this is not a pipe". But do remember that you put a name on what your eyes see according to how your brain has previously been programmed.
"It's easier to fool someone than to convince them that they've been fooled."
I think of it as the folly of the masses. Marx said religion was the opiate of the people. Currently, the former guy and Russian social media seem to have superseded.
It is amazing what atrocities have been done in the name of religion just as it is amazing what good has also prevailed. Certainly we live in a Yin/Yang world. I do wonder where are all the Christians who are not fanatics or fascists-- what are they thinking about those who use religion as a mask of protection? Fanatics and abusers exist in certain religions. They need to be called out. Silence is complicity.
The last time I was in Mississippi, the kkk, dressed in their Sunday Best white robes, were blocking traffic in order to hand out their racist flyers. It was a hot day, so their faces weren't covered. Guess it was a 'hoods optional' day. More likely, they had no reason to hide their faces. Full of hate. Absolutely one of the worst things I've ever experienced.
"Once my husband retires--less than 4 years--we're outta here. " Hazel - wise move!! I'm debating going back to the Keys for my 56th high school reunion. Most of us are no longer on the Keys, of course, several no longer on the planet, but I am quite sure I have little to nothing in common with the bulk of them. One reason I left the Keys in the first place, of course. Square peg in the round hole and all that. Good look in your endeavors!
Can you imagine Ron DeSantis as President?! I'm in St. Augustine. Born & raised in Alabama. I understand too well what you are saying. Paddling 70 miles this week on the Chipola River, just west of Tally. The devastation of Hurricane Michael is jaw-dropping. Why no funds? The Governor said, no thank you!
How do you spell uff dah? I have it wrong I am sure.
I am still amazed at how stupid so many of the people here in Florida are. Just the fact that DeathSantis is overwhelmingly favored to win re-election as governor and then is ahead of the line to be the next Republican nominee for president tells you all you need to know about Florida.
Up to now, I have preferred to refer to those who repeatedly vote against their own interests in Florida and elsewhere as "ignorant" or "gullible" and specifically tried to avoid referring to them as "stupid." Now, finally, their continued support of the former president makes that adjective seems more appropriate. (As for Florida, enough of the large number of retirees here bring with them a rear-view mirror orientation which causes them to vote as if it they can recapture the past. That will never change.)
Hazel he did send aid including to Puerto Rico — remember the paper towels he threw to the adoring crowd. Oy.
IT is one of the best epithets I've heard so far. Only two letters to type saves valuable time, though the shift key may be more attention than IT deserves.
I'm happy to live in Massachusetts
I'm happy that you live in Massachusetts!
I saw it too—phew.
Republican platform: defend the government. Except when the corporations need bailing out.
Oops, DEFUND.
kinda works both ways.....their money comes before the peoples' money.
Hmmm, Thanks Stuart
And the writing has been on this wall ever since Trump signed the big rich-folks tax bill.
And A lot of "regular folks" didn't, and still do not, Understand how That tax bill benefited the Rich and BIG Corporations !!!!!!!
Let’s see how the Supreme Court decides on these issues. I think the decisions may be more nuanced than we might expect. After all, the judges have grandchildren too and the implications of these issues could affect generations.
I have long been galled and saddened that Clarence Thomas sits in Thurgood Marshall's chair --a mental and moral Lilliputian occupying the place of a giant. I know it's wrong, but I confess to looking forward to the news that Thomas has had his well deserved heart attack or stroke; can't come to soon.
I’m of a like mind though I’d prefer a graceful retirement
Maybe he will have to resign if his wife’s extremist actions get more attention.
I was having a similar thought.
Wish I could believe this, Liz. I see the court leaning w-a-y right now, and will leave most Americans wondering WTF.
Pam this is just my optimism and I know I could be terribly wrong. Yes if they wanted to obliterate the ability of government to create agencies to delegate there are enough of them to do that. It would be so radical though. I think Roberts wouldn’t go that far. They do have concern for their legacies.
Liz if conservatives were worried about their legacies they’d have convicted DJT. The focus is their next election and placating the voters -of whom they are afraid(?!)- enough to block any outflanking from the right. Demoralizing, craven, jaw-dropping selfishness
It's not just optimism. If SCOTUS votes in favor of the issue, the Biden administration and Democrats will add states and expand The Court. Then the Repugs could lose all power.
Breyer's continuing refusal to retire so that Biden can fill his seat this year is a real problem. The hubris of the SCOTUS members . . . As much as I loved RBG, she really needed to retire when Obama was president.
Linda 100%. Great career, Judge Breyer; time to hang 'em up. There's a 40-something phenom in the Dems' minor league system who can't be denied.
From past behavior, it appears as though the wealthy believe they can eat money, buy their way out of climate chaos, and be somehow insulated from the effects of their greed. SCOTUS is outnumbered by the mental and moral Lilliputians...
Good point.