Thank you, for sharing Robert Reich's story. I agree 100% about he said. That all people must treated with equality regardless of what their beliefs are or the color of their skin. The freedom for women's reproductive rights. Freedom to read the books. Freedom to vote.
“The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.” —Thomas Jefferson
J L, and thank you for the link to Hartmann's piece -- such a superb refutation of those who believe we were founded as a Christian nation. I only wish I could easily copy and paste it for future reference (I don't use bookmarks.)
Here's a quote I saved long ago:
"It is a truism that almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so." -Robert A. Heinlein
That opinion was long and hard in coming, and judging by the religious complexion in the MAGA/Republican party, is still being fought against. The NT, not to mention the OT, are inherently intolerant on the basics. You know the history I'm sure. Who knows someday maybe the huge gulf between the rich and the poor will take on a similar hue.... of course, it already has in some quarters, socialism, and more extremely originally, communism, and look at the fight that has dredged up.
What a powerful essay! The so-called Christian nationalists attempting to claim our nation was founded as a Christian country are not Originalists. The founders’ own words, excerpted here, refute that argument. Everyone should read this. Thanks, JL!
I am not sure that the term "originalist" even makes any sense, at least with respect to democratic governance. Newtons laws of motion are still taught because they prove useful on an ongoing basis. Some of the same can be said of the principles of democracy we inherited, and since improved, from US founders. In hindsight, some of the personal beliefs ad decisions of some of the founders are now seen as objectionable, but that has no bearing on the fecundity of some of their thinking. As Stephen Hawking put it, Newton was not a nice man, but he nailed a lot of stuff that still works, as well as spinning some notions we have dropped since. Ever hear of Pangenesis ? It's a theory Darwin proposed that proved inadequate, even if his notion of evolution is still applied.
The person of Newton is not the source of authority for the validity of Newtonian (a subset of Einsteinian and quantum) physics. Species don't evolve just because Darwin said so. Newton's views have been updated, but a lot of his original work still stands. Why? Because we have not found anything better.
Yet, like the Scholastics faith in Aristotle, some see the person as a higher authority than tested principle. When people die, they stop growing, but testable observation and application need not
Fear/hatred of the "other". So many men (all white, in my experience) are so terrified of gay men because (I suspect) they are afraid that someone will treat them the same way they treat women. I suspect that the hatred that the "other" will get to be on the same level as with the same privileges as white men is based in much the same feeling. It is either that or the misguided notion that they are the "top tier" of humanity and all others are beneath them and they cannot stand to see "others" getting the same rights as their "god given" rights.
I think you nailed it here, Ally. My only added comment is that the dynamic you describe is probably universal and more associated with white people in our experience because there are more of us here and we have had the most impact on shaping our society and its institutions. Looking around the globe these days, the "other" syndrome is alive and well in all of the current conflicts. That is why it strikes me Our Great American Experiment is such a challenging endeavor: by main strength and awkwardness, we strive to rise above the fears you describe. It ain't easy, as Heather's relentless history lessons demonstrate. While we are guilty of frequent, often tragic, missteps in our striving, it may be useful to pause and ask;"compared to what? Compared to whom?" The answer does not justify our failures, but it does put in perspective the immense challenge the Founding Fathers placed in our hands. Too many Americans have turned their backs on our heritage (both the rights and responsibilities embedded in what we have been given. And a great many accept the challenge and strive to make good on the promise of America. My sense is that acceptance is what draws most of us to this dialogue stimulated by Heather's fascinating history class.
We do have a lot of work to do; we know that. Doing it is a noble endeavor and, despite endless frustrations and frequent setbacks, offers priceless satisfaction. Our tool, as Ned notes, is sustained engagement. It helps to know you are not alone.
Human beings are still SO tribal. It seems like it takes a certain level of self-awareness to be able to question that tribal instinct's knee-jerk reactions, and it also seems like there are a lot of people that haven't got the first clue as to HOW to be self-reflective. Or why they should be.
Perhaps it is because as children we need someone wise to to world to tell us what to do (like don't run into the street) some are more comfortable being bossed around by dictators than seeing anyone of lesser "status" be given some help toward equality, and often those who live like kings have the most trouble seeing anybody else (who is not working their will) get a leg up. Also I think all of us invest in different ways in the way things are and some are a lot more comfortable than others responding to change. Appeals to return to a largely fictional "good old days" , be it Roy Moore's misty utopian view of the US South prior to the Civil War, or a "Forever Reich" dictatorial "strong men"
promise a return of "Glory Days" that were really no more the gory days.
Ned, the important thing is to live and learn. I learned only a few years ago of Reagan's racist, pandering campaign speech to kick off his presidential campaign. The GOP had been involved in this shit since Tricky Dicky. Now they own it, and there is no way to spin it. States' rights my ass.
States have rights. Societies have rights. Majorities AND minorities have rights. Private individuals have rights, and there are human rights, even animal rights, and arguably planetary rights. They all have to work together for there to be justice. Seems a lot a social and political troubles come from those who want to take rights from others.
I agree, J.L. , but not all of these "rights" are described as such in our Constitution -- the 10th Amendment refers to certain "powers" of states, not to States' rights -- and these powers or prerogatives can be taken back /overruled by the US Congress as necessary. I believe "States' Rights" is a term invented by former slave owners and used today as a racist dog whistle.
All of the political parties in America have “been involved in this shit” since the nation was “founded”. Of course the GOP is a prime example of how to build a party based on racism.
The “Fusion Party” in NC during the 1890s was trying to bring people of goodwill together. The parties remained separate but joined forces to influence certain elections. They were generally in favor of voting rights and education.
Too bad people are so adamant today about choosing sides and never coming together.
How do you come together with racists? You can only defeat them at election time, pass laws they detest, maintain the rule of law and hope their offspring's offspring are subject to better influences and experiences than their parents were. Of course today's disinformation environment makes this nearly impossible.
It is ironic that the party that once defended the proposition that all men (sic) are created equal embraced the tyrants tool of racism after Democrats substantially moved to sacrifice that substantial voting bloc for social justice, a betrayal of historic proportions. Nixon's racism seemed more of a calculation. Ehrlichman is quoted as saying:
"We knew we couldn’t make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin. And then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities,” “We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did.”
Reagan's smarmy racism was also couched. Years after his death "to protect his privacy" taped openly racist remarks to Nixon were released;
The two were discussing the Tanzanian delegation’s reaction to the vote, after delegates danced in the chamber. “To watch that thing on television, as I did, to see those, those monkeys from those African countries – damn them, they’re still uncomfortable wearing shoes!” Reagan tells Nixon, who erupts in laughter. (Guardian)
The remarks seemed to have little impact on Reagan's aura. Now the cult of Trump is numerous enough to drop dog whistles for sirens. I think bullying and phobias of people who are different is persistent because it is part of human nature, which like all innate propensities, manifests in greater or lesser ways depending on what we are formally and informally taught. But those wish to dominate have always had strategies to make use of our "reptile" emotions to exploit and oppress for their own selfish advantage. Check out the shadowy actions of the likes of Leonard Leo, or Harlan Crow, and follow the money.. Even back to the Civil War; who actually gained and who paid the price (even among the white race) for slavery?
Nice comment, J L. Informative, well written, to the point. Your comments are always worth a look and usually food for thought. I hope Reagan's cellmate in Hell is... well, his worst nightmare.
Ned, your "gracias" reminds me that rarely are their comments here that acknowledge the importance of the Hispanic vote in the upcoming election. They are a massive voting block and taken for granted by the Democrats for the most part.
The WH under convicted felon Donald Trump (CFDT) bragged that Melania knew 5 languages. Well, she knows 5 languages about like I do -- which is to understand important words like taco, lasagne, filet mignon and gracias.
Is HCR's newsletter easily translated into Spanish or other languages?
I believe that it is, but I haven't read about it recently. It could also be that these are read in Spanish on one of the YouTube channels.
I have a friend (recent college graduate who was one of the scholarship recipients of the tuba ensemble as he pursued a degree in music) who is Hispanic, and has been working to translate some of the published pedagogy of Arnold Jacobs into Spanish.
There are reports of the G.O.P. making in-roads into the Spanish-speaking community. Hopefully, President Biden will state plainly that the support these citizens is not taken for granted, that we are bi-lingual country and the richer for it.
Hispanics are around 20% of the US population, their numbers quadrupling in the past 40 years. That voting block can make a huge difference in an election. I hope the Democrats pay as much attention to wooing the Hispanics as the Party of Trump.
Ned-Don’t be ashamed. We all have been living the American ways for centuries and it involves ongoing racism that most of us don’t really understand. That’s why education and forums like HCR’s are so important.
By telling a personal story he made his essay powerful. I remember that time vividly, the incident, the discovery of the bodies, the faces of the convicted, Goldwater's speech, my parents Goldwater campaign button, all of it. My parents were shocked by the Goldwater speech and by the many incidents, but they voted for him anyway, he was the Republican. As a vet, my dad loved Ike and so that was that. Perhaps we need to figure out how to get folks like my parents, to think differently. A powerfrul read!
" . . . . murdered by white supremacists — by violent bullies who would stop at nothing to prevent Black people from exercising their right to vote — something snapped inside me.
Yes. The death of the three civil rights workers is what prompted me to go to Mississippi to help federal registrars during a winter break from college.
Have any of you read Robert Reich's tribute to his childhood friend, Michael Schwermer this morning? Moving is an understatement.
Here’s the link to make it easy.
https://open.substack.com/pub/robertreich/p/60-years-ago-today-they-murdered?r=np4n&utm_medium=ios
Thank you, for sharing Robert Reich's story. I agree 100% about he said. That all people must treated with equality regardless of what their beliefs are or the color of their skin. The freedom for women's reproductive rights. Freedom to read the books. Freedom to vote.
Here is an interesting quotation;
“The legitimate powers of government extend to such acts only as are injurious to others. But it does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are twenty gods, or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.” —Thomas Jefferson
from an interesting essay: https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2024/6/21/2247833/-The-Founder-s-Fury-Ten-Commandments-Invade-Our-Schools
While we must curtail the doing of harm to others, we all have an unalienable right to be who we are.
J L, and thank you for the link to Hartmann's piece -- such a superb refutation of those who believe we were founded as a Christian nation. I only wish I could easily copy and paste it for future reference (I don't use bookmarks.)
Here's a quote I saved long ago:
"It is a truism that almost any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so." -Robert A. Heinlein
Thank you and Thom Hartmann! I encourage every to read the essay.
That opinion was long and hard in coming, and judging by the religious complexion in the MAGA/Republican party, is still being fought against. The NT, not to mention the OT, are inherently intolerant on the basics. You know the history I'm sure. Who knows someday maybe the huge gulf between the rich and the poor will take on a similar hue.... of course, it already has in some quarters, socialism, and more extremely originally, communism, and look at the fight that has dredged up.
What a powerful essay! The so-called Christian nationalists attempting to claim our nation was founded as a Christian country are not Originalists. The founders’ own words, excerpted here, refute that argument. Everyone should read this. Thanks, JL!
I am not sure that the term "originalist" even makes any sense, at least with respect to democratic governance. Newtons laws of motion are still taught because they prove useful on an ongoing basis. Some of the same can be said of the principles of democracy we inherited, and since improved, from US founders. In hindsight, some of the personal beliefs ad decisions of some of the founders are now seen as objectionable, but that has no bearing on the fecundity of some of their thinking. As Stephen Hawking put it, Newton was not a nice man, but he nailed a lot of stuff that still works, as well as spinning some notions we have dropped since. Ever hear of Pangenesis ? It's a theory Darwin proposed that proved inadequate, even if his notion of evolution is still applied.
The person of Newton is not the source of authority for the validity of Newtonian (a subset of Einsteinian and quantum) physics. Species don't evolve just because Darwin said so. Newton's views have been updated, but a lot of his original work still stands. Why? Because we have not found anything better.
Yet, like the Scholastics faith in Aristotle, some see the person as a higher authority than tested principle. When people die, they stop growing, but testable observation and application need not
Well said, J L. And thanks for that quote -- I'll add it to my collection.
Patricia, so why are so many opposed to those freedoms?
Fear/hatred of the "other". So many men (all white, in my experience) are so terrified of gay men because (I suspect) they are afraid that someone will treat them the same way they treat women. I suspect that the hatred that the "other" will get to be on the same level as with the same privileges as white men is based in much the same feeling. It is either that or the misguided notion that they are the "top tier" of humanity and all others are beneath them and they cannot stand to see "others" getting the same rights as their "god given" rights.
I think you nailed it here, Ally. My only added comment is that the dynamic you describe is probably universal and more associated with white people in our experience because there are more of us here and we have had the most impact on shaping our society and its institutions. Looking around the globe these days, the "other" syndrome is alive and well in all of the current conflicts. That is why it strikes me Our Great American Experiment is such a challenging endeavor: by main strength and awkwardness, we strive to rise above the fears you describe. It ain't easy, as Heather's relentless history lessons demonstrate. While we are guilty of frequent, often tragic, missteps in our striving, it may be useful to pause and ask;"compared to what? Compared to whom?" The answer does not justify our failures, but it does put in perspective the immense challenge the Founding Fathers placed in our hands. Too many Americans have turned their backs on our heritage (both the rights and responsibilities embedded in what we have been given. And a great many accept the challenge and strive to make good on the promise of America. My sense is that acceptance is what draws most of us to this dialogue stimulated by Heather's fascinating history class.
We do have a lot of work to do; we know that. Doing it is a noble endeavor and, despite endless frustrations and frequent setbacks, offers priceless satisfaction. Our tool, as Ned notes, is sustained engagement. It helps to know you are not alone.
Human beings are still SO tribal. It seems like it takes a certain level of self-awareness to be able to question that tribal instinct's knee-jerk reactions, and it also seems like there are a lot of people that haven't got the first clue as to HOW to be self-reflective. Or why they should be.
Perhaps it is because as children we need someone wise to to world to tell us what to do (like don't run into the street) some are more comfortable being bossed around by dictators than seeing anyone of lesser "status" be given some help toward equality, and often those who live like kings have the most trouble seeing anybody else (who is not working their will) get a leg up. Also I think all of us invest in different ways in the way things are and some are a lot more comfortable than others responding to change. Appeals to return to a largely fictional "good old days" , be it Roy Moore's misty utopian view of the US South prior to the Civil War, or a "Forever Reich" dictatorial "strong men"
promise a return of "Glory Days" that were really no more the gory days.
Many thanks. I was skeptical and unengaged. Shame of me; gracias Dres Cox Richardson and Reich.
Ned, the important thing is to live and learn. I learned only a few years ago of Reagan's racist, pandering campaign speech to kick off his presidential campaign. The GOP had been involved in this shit since Tricky Dicky. Now they own it, and there is no way to spin it. States' rights my ass.
States have rights. Societies have rights. Majorities AND minorities have rights. Private individuals have rights, and there are human rights, even animal rights, and arguably planetary rights. They all have to work together for there to be justice. Seems a lot a social and political troubles come from those who want to take rights from others.
Pecking order
...... amazing how that plays out everywhere
And who engage in zero “sum”ism.
I agree, J.L. , but not all of these "rights" are described as such in our Constitution -- the 10th Amendment refers to certain "powers" of states, not to States' rights -- and these powers or prerogatives can be taken back /overruled by the US Congress as necessary. I believe "States' Rights" is a term invented by former slave owners and used today as a racist dog whistle.
All of the political parties in America have “been involved in this shit” since the nation was “founded”. Of course the GOP is a prime example of how to build a party based on racism.
The “Fusion Party” in NC during the 1890s was trying to bring people of goodwill together. The parties remained separate but joined forces to influence certain elections. They were generally in favor of voting rights and education.
Too bad people are so adamant today about choosing sides and never coming together.
How do you come together with racists? You can only defeat them at election time, pass laws they detest, maintain the rule of law and hope their offspring's offspring are subject to better influences and experiences than their parents were. Of course today's disinformation environment makes this nearly impossible.
It is ironic that the party that once defended the proposition that all men (sic) are created equal embraced the tyrants tool of racism after Democrats substantially moved to sacrifice that substantial voting bloc for social justice, a betrayal of historic proportions. Nixon's racism seemed more of a calculation. Ehrlichman is quoted as saying:
"We knew we couldn’t make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin. And then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities,” “We could arrest their leaders. raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did.”
Reagan's smarmy racism was also couched. Years after his death "to protect his privacy" taped openly racist remarks to Nixon were released;
The two were discussing the Tanzanian delegation’s reaction to the vote, after delegates danced in the chamber. “To watch that thing on television, as I did, to see those, those monkeys from those African countries – damn them, they’re still uncomfortable wearing shoes!” Reagan tells Nixon, who erupts in laughter. (Guardian)
The remarks seemed to have little impact on Reagan's aura. Now the cult of Trump is numerous enough to drop dog whistles for sirens. I think bullying and phobias of people who are different is persistent because it is part of human nature, which like all innate propensities, manifests in greater or lesser ways depending on what we are formally and informally taught. But those wish to dominate have always had strategies to make use of our "reptile" emotions to exploit and oppress for their own selfish advantage. Check out the shadowy actions of the likes of Leonard Leo, or Harlan Crow, and follow the money.. Even back to the Civil War; who actually gained and who paid the price (even among the white race) for slavery?
Nice comment, J L. Informative, well written, to the point. Your comments are always worth a look and usually food for thought. I hope Reagan's cellmate in Hell is... well, his worst nightmare.
Ned, your "gracias" reminds me that rarely are their comments here that acknowledge the importance of the Hispanic vote in the upcoming election. They are a massive voting block and taken for granted by the Democrats for the most part.
The WH under convicted felon Donald Trump (CFDT) bragged that Melania knew 5 languages. Well, she knows 5 languages about like I do -- which is to understand important words like taco, lasagne, filet mignon and gracias.
Is HCR's newsletter easily translated into Spanish or other languages?
I believe that it is, but I haven't read about it recently. It could also be that these are read in Spanish on one of the YouTube channels.
I have a friend (recent college graduate who was one of the scholarship recipients of the tuba ensemble as he pursued a degree in music) who is Hispanic, and has been working to translate some of the published pedagogy of Arnold Jacobs into Spanish.
There are reports of the G.O.P. making in-roads into the Spanish-speaking community. Hopefully, President Biden will state plainly that the support these citizens is not taken for granted, that we are bi-lingual country and the richer for it.
Hispanics are around 20% of the US population, their numbers quadrupling in the past 40 years. That voting block can make a huge difference in an election. I hope the Democrats pay as much attention to wooing the Hispanics as the Party of Trump.
Amen to that, Gary,
Ned-Don’t be ashamed. We all have been living the American ways for centuries and it involves ongoing racism that most of us don’t really understand. That’s why education and forums like HCR’s are so important.
Thank you, Gina, for your gracious comment. Of repeated thanks may sound hackneyed, yet my grateful heart prevents them from becoming trite.
Thanks for posting the link.
SPW, thank you for sharing the link so that we can read this wonderful tribute.
By telling a personal story he made his essay powerful. I remember that time vividly, the incident, the discovery of the bodies, the faces of the convicted, Goldwater's speech, my parents Goldwater campaign button, all of it. My parents were shocked by the Goldwater speech and by the many incidents, but they voted for him anyway, he was the Republican. As a vet, my dad loved Ike and so that was that. Perhaps we need to figure out how to get folks like my parents, to think differently. A powerfrul read!
Thank you.
Thank You for this. Shared
I have read Reich's tribute, and I agree that it is profound and powerful.
I haven't, but the story, from his happy letter to his parents on, is heartbreaking. And still they don't change.
Yes, as I read this I was thinking about Robert's tribute. It was very touching. 😢
Yes, Ransom, it was great,
" . . . . murdered by white supremacists — by violent bullies who would stop at nothing to prevent Black people from exercising their right to vote — something snapped inside me.
It was as if I got a new pair of eyes."
Yes, Ransom -- I read it yesterday. It was very moving, as Schwerner acted as his "protector" from the bullying he as a short Jewish kid received.
Yes. The death of the three civil rights workers is what prompted me to go to Mississippi to help federal registrars during a winter break from college.