In other words, in 1776, one group declared themselves free of a government, while in 1865, another group was declared free by a government.. In both cases the underlying idea was that all men are considered equal, and should be granted the same rights and privileges by their government. About seventy years …
In other words, in 1776, one group declared themselves free of a government, while in 1865, another group was declared free by a government.. In both cases the underlying idea was that all men are considered equal, and should be granted the same rights and privileges by their government. About seventy years later, women were legally granted all of those rights and privileges also.
But now we are again seeing a major flaw in our nature. It is very difficult to convince a large percentage of any society that they are equal to, but no better than, everyone else. What people have a great deal of difficulty realizing is that we are all united by our insignificance. We will all disappear, and the world will go on without us, no matter how important we think we are.
I love this. A friend once told me, “Put your hand in a bucket of water, and then pull it out. Watch how quickly it fills in behind you. That’s how important you are.” It made good sense to me and has helped me put things in perspective. We can do our best to change and love the world, and should, but insignificance shouldn’t frighten, but free us.
We are important to ourselves and in many ways, to one another. Self-importance alone can become evil, but self-interest is Ok, I think, embedded in enough perspective. Our human societies, our collected human observations, arts, and values, are important to us, so why %#$& it all up? For what?
At every level of existence, from the cells that serve my body/me, to me ) serving my family, ) community, country, ) all life... we live in nested worlds. When we do not serve larger worlds they lose their ability to nurture us. If I don't nurture/feed my body it dies. This is call reciprocal maintenance. Every situation calls up our map of how we draw the nested worlds. President Biden sees himself serving individuals ) town ) country ) his God all as one thought. Others politicians see themselves as central and exclusive.
Love, "Our human societies, our collected human observations, arts, and values, are important to us, so why %#$& it all up?" by not serving the culture so it is nurturing.
And a planet that for all of it's risks and terrors offers astonishing beauty, nurture and adventure, gifted, along with our sentient lives, to we humans.
We study Biology in both Reductionist and Emergentism modes to explain life. Reducing more complex systems to more general concepts like cells and tissues of the vascular system emerge to carry nutrients through the entire body, and chemical bonds emerge to form macro molecules to form living cells. One day we might discover the entire earth biosphere emerges to fill yet higher emergent properties.
I think the thing many have lost is that the corollary of rights are responsibilities.
The responsibility to treat others with respect, to accept that one has no rights the other does not, unless they have transgressed against the laws, which must be proven snd the laws rationally and fairly constructed and enforced.
And that where we get to the problems of Christian nationalists and fearful racists. We need to explain their fears are groundless. Someday we'll be able to explain to them their god is a fantasy too, and can move on to a rational future.
Enjoy the scorching heat courtesy of the deniers of fact, the petroleum industry.
Sadly, our ability to destroy is not insignificant. We have learned to put a significant leak in the bucket, but it is we who will suffer. The universe will spin on without us…likely with a cockroach or two
I fall back on the world of interconnection the James Cameron dreamed in Avatar. Man's quest for Unobtanium, destroying the worlds in his search. And the natives on the blue planet who knew better.
Yes, it is more than sci-fi, but also based on Native American culture.
Excerpts from my review of Avatar (2009)
When Na'vi approach another they greet with "I See You." Of course they see you with those big cat eyes, but the expression is more like "Namasté" a Sanskrit word that means the god in me recognizes the god in you.
Blended with this East Indian concept of one in spirit is the North American Native concept that: "All things are connected. Whatever befalls the earth befalls the children of the earth." (Chief Seattle, Suqwamish and Duwamish)
There is a scene where Jake, on learning the Na'vi ways is hunting and kills a Pandoran equivalent of a deer. As he dispatches the dying animal with his knife he says, "I see you brother. Thank You. Your soul will go to Eywa and your body will stay to be part of the people."
That reminded me of Native American culture:
“The Indian loved to come into sympathy and spiritual communion with his brothers of the animal kingdom, whose inarticulate souls had for him something of the sinless purity that we attribute to the innocent child. He had faith in their instincts, as in a mysterious wisdom given from above; and while he humbly accepted the supposedly voluntary sacrifice of their bodies to preserve his own, he paid homage to their spirits in prescribed prayers and offerings.” From The Soul of an Indian: An Interpretation by Charles Eastman, (Ohiyesa) 1858-1939
I've watched it twice. There used to be an animated movie/series years ago that I remember watching with my kids or grandkids - something like the premise in Avatar.
I told my grandson I had good news, bad news, and good news for him. The good news is he's the most important person in the world bar none. The bad news is he's tied for first place with roughly eight billion other human beings. And the good news is he's tied for first place.
True enough. I've heard the image used in discussions of managers dealing with subordinates threatening to leave. Not a flattering comparison in either direction. However, it should be noted that if 30 people all stick their hands in a bucket of water at once and the water rises to a level that it spills over, when they withdraw their hands, the bucket's water level drops. Also, a good reminder that working together on a cause can make a difference.
As an ESL teacher, one of my main jobs was not to teach content material or even fluency in speaking, reading, or writing English but to help students from many different countries with different religions and customs understand that one group or another was not better than or worse than the others. "Different from" was the operational thought pattern that we all worked on establishing. It's a principle that we still have to learn here: we all have equal value, regardless of who we are or where we came from or any of the other aspects of our background that make us different from each other, but neither better nor worse..
Rule #1 of the 10 commandments: “you shall have no gods before me” is a negation of all Religions that do not subscribe to the same God as mentioned in the Ten Commandments including Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism, Sikhism, Shinto, Taoism, Confucianism, Zoroastrianism, Scientology, Bahá'í Faith, Rastafarianism, Wicca, indigenous and folk religions, African traditional religions, Aboriginal Australian religions, Polynesian religions, and Siberian shamanism, New Age spirituality, Secular Humanism, Atheism, Agnosticism, Taoism and Confucianism.
So too with “honor the sabbath.” It’s a rule that teaches to exclude the other, the non-believer. Not cool for school.
Prohibition of taking the lord’s in vain is a violation of the first amendment.
Forbidding coveting (anti-envy) is an invitation to police thoughts.
If you want to post a code of ethics, great. No lying, stealing or murder. The end.
The other seven commandments are problematic and cause more harm than good. Much like 70% of religion.
The current crop of Christian’s are self-righteous cretins to a great extent. One bro thinks my other bro is not Christian enough and won’t talk to him. It’s more complicated than that, but the religious nonsense is just too much to take
Jeri, Its the same with every single possible issue there is - nonsense is exactly what it is. There is one religious phrase that seems to be completely forgotten - Do unto others etc??? Or how about Walk a mile in my shoes - another good one. Or maybe just treat people the way you would want to be treated. Honestly, its complete BS.
I am proudly wearing my Celtics hat. It represents teamwork at the highest level. When a group of talented individuals put their personal interests aside and prioritize the interests of all, everyone benefits.
Gary, I was denied an Assistant Scoutmaster position in a Baltimore Area Council troop in 1966 because I did not have a religion. Reverent meant a belief in a god.
Shawn: Actually, honoring the sabbath means that for 1/7 of our lives we should rest. It means taking ourselves away from needing to be "productive" in favor of just being. Coveting isn't just envying; it's actively taking something from someone. Being commanded not to covet means your property is yours, and I should leave you alone to enjoy it. This is positive not negative and certainly not about police. You agree about not lying, stealing, or killing, all of which protect each individual and the society as do the other commandments.
BUT the biblical commandments should not be required to be posted in secular places like schools. That's fascism and contrary to our nation's Constitution.
Melinda, I appreciate the perspective. Thanks. And your interpretations are lovely. Your motives are to bring solace where you sense my frustration. You are driven by kindness.
If the Ten Commandments and the lessons of the Bible were interpreted universally through good will like yours, we would live in the kind of world I see in my daughter’s picture books where we learn lessons about respecting others and embracing differences. In Hollywood movies, the good guys are GOOD.
In situations like Louisiana, the motives are not to bring calm and community, but to create conflict and pain. Indeed, the governor signed the law saying “I can’t wait to get sued.” How can you adhere to God’s laws and also be motivated to pick fights?
Hi Shawn, Thanks for your response. Your observation that Gov. Landry has a deep-seated problem is evidenced by essentially using that playground taunt: "So there! I dare ya! Sue me!" That posture is contrary to the life you characterize as respectfully embracing differences. The fighting stance betrays an insecurity. People who want to shove their views on others need, for some reason, to denigrate and dismiss optional views so that theirs alone is on the table.
Another way to approach the religious convictions of people unlike oneself is to ask questions and notice what is different and what is similar and say something like, "Oh how interesting!" Each view gets more helpfully defined; neither tears the other down.
The problem I have with it is the concept of an infallible entity who cannot be questioned. If you do wickedness in the name of this thing, you can use it to claim piety.
Get rid of the justification and stand on the merits of your act. Removing it to the responsibility of god told me to do it simply changes the discussion to whether or not it’s authorized by the inscrutable and false diety
There's a book I remember reading many years ago, that had as its premise: What if we lived our lives based LITERALLY on what it says in the Bible? Some of it was very tongue-in-cheek.
I believe that might have been A.J. Jacob's book "A Year of Living Biblically"?
I LOVE that book! It should get more readers, but I think atheists would be turned off by the title, and those very devote will think it treats the bible as a farce. I found it to be humorous--he has a great way with words, and yet sincere. He tries to be respectful of the theology behind various practices and understand them.
Before I retired, I worked with many Muslims. I asked questions about their faith with honest curiosity, and they all came to respect my questions as they recognized I truly wanted to understand.
I learn much from HCR and those who comment on the forum. I must say though, I'm dismayed by the dismissive and sometimes rude posts put up to anyone who has religious faith. It's yet another reason I am upset with Trump and MAGA: just like I am now leery of flying our flag for fear of being judged as "MAGA", I am also reluctant to discuss belief in God, as in my opinion, the hypocritical evangelicals have stolen religion, too. If I find comfort in believing in a loving higher power, don't dismiss other's religion (or lack of) nor try to control/conform anyone else, my personal faith shouldn't be an issue with them.
I'm already well aware of the wars fought over religion, the horrible acts that are done in "God's name" etc, I don't need those reminders. I just find it a bit hypocritical as well, when I hear liberals (and I am liberal, btw) declare they embrace all people and yet automatically slam the door on any person who believes in God. Can't we be better than this?
Miselle - its what people take away from the Bible & other religious teachings - whether comfort in believing, or someone finding one small piece of a verse that they believe enables hypocritical actions. I really dont have that much faith anymore whether I ever did, but if believing provides comfort - what difference does it make which God someone believes in? Sometimes thats the only thing a person has.
Right now? I guess we really cant be better than this!
Yeah.. good post, Shawn Shawn. I keep asking, "who" wrote that "book"..?? Having just read an article by Lauren Windsor and listening to a recording of creepster Roger Stone at a Cathoilics for prayer get-together at Mar-a-lago. I'm beginning to think it might've been some distant relative of Roger Stone (puke!!). He and his 'toters' cause me to feel ill. Keep an eye on that POS... total slime.
My mother used to tell me when I asked why some people treated others so badly that those folks NEEDED somebody to look down on. That is still true today.
“As an ESL teacher, one of my main jobs was not to teach content material or even fluency in speaking, reading, or writing English but to help students from many different countries with different religions and customs understand that one group or another was not better than or worse than the others.”
Thanks for your post, Betsy. I was a volunteer ESL tutor for many years. Actually…it was my students who taught me…
And along with Equality we need to respect each other. Easy to write, but hard to put in action when you're dealing with people hell bent on dividing us.
We have to learn that differences are what make life possible... even at the level of the cosmos, if the sun was the same as the earth, no inner levels in our nest worlds could exist.
My niece was teaching an ESL class the last I knew. She is a retired high school teacher - cant remember if she taught English or History. I'll have to ask her.
Oh! Oldandintheway, I laughed out loud as you put everything into perspective. Isn't it great being old? Granting rights and privileges equally to others is more important than our measly little self. LOL
Well said....We have very weak and insecure white males....always trying to control women or people of color....to use or destroy anyone they consider vulnerable. This attitude has not changed since the Civil War...or "from the beginning".
Most are dangerous empty vessels.....of course with guns.....to fill their insecurities with a sense of power.
Thank God for the few, for the brave who actually are willing to give their lives to this country...to all of its people...to work throughout the world to build relationships...to work for peace, NOT war....to work for the economic good for all....to care for people of all skin colors...to care for our children...the hope of the world....to care for those who are living in poverty...to give a hand up NOT a boot in the face.
Those supporting Trump are blind and pathetic. This man stole government documents saying they were his! No they are not yours! Those documents belong to the government to the people of the USA. Presidents are elected to serve and to protect this nation and all of its people. ( Pence and Biden immediately returned those documents found in their homes.)
What is really gross and disgusting to me are the women who worship at his feet!!!! This man is a rapist.....this man talks about women as objects .....and treats his wife with disrespect by being with other women. He has been married three times and Christians think he is wonderful when he holds a Bible that he never reads!!!!
Oldandintheway, Yes," We will all disappear, and the world will go on without us, no matter how important we think we are" BUT, I have beloved children and grandchildren who will be here. They are very good and giving people, as far as humans can be. I DO care for their future and for those who continue to be born in this world. I also believe in making some positive contribution to the wellbeing of this world...does not need to be grand ...but something. I also pray that they will not be caught up in the lies of dictators or "want-a-be" Presidents.
You are spot on as usual. We are all united in our insignificance, but also in our individual, varied beyond imagination significance. All of us need to realize that the Sun will rise in the East tomorrow without us, while yearning to make this sun splashed orb better while we are here.
Thanks for your commentary, and before I forget, how about that Jayson Tatum!
Congratulations to the Celtics. May they enjoy their well earned title, and their 18th championship before the Lakers tie them next year!
Thank you for your comment. It has a great deal of meaning to me, another "oldandintheway" "senior". Maybe finding out that you are not better than anyone else and that we are all united by our insignificance is something you do not learn until you are "oldandintheway". It makes me appreciate that I am privileged to have reached this age.
In addition to agreeing with literally everything Oldandintheway is saying, I would like to share the following idea.
We are also united by a species-specific social instinct that is telling all of us to treat one another with respect, even though there are so many who have learned how to ignore that message. But the vast majority of us believe in something, whether that something is a religion, science, democracy, capitalism, etc. The good news is they're all a context-specific manifestation of our social instinct. There's only one way avoid that conclusion, and that is to avoid looking at the evidence.
I'll assume everyone agrees that every legitimate religion is based on the Golden Rule. So is science. Me thinking my hypothesis is right doesn't make it right or wrong, nor does it give me the right to impose it on others. Instead, it must be subjected to rigorous skepticism. So is capitalism, as I've pointed out in previous comments, because it is based on Adam Smith's Theory of Moral Sentiments (1759), and not on Milton Freidman's "theory of immoral sentiments" aka Capitalism and Freedom (1961).
In other words, we're all speaking different languages that are all misunderstood by both the speakers and the listeners despite the fact that they (the languages) are all built up from the same "mutual respect" foundation.
Draw a vertical line down the center of a piece of paper. On the left side, list all the names of people you know who are appalled and frightened by possibility of a Trump victory in November. Add my name to the list. On the right side, list all the names of people you know who think the way to guarantee a Biden victory is simple enough that a child in elementary school would understand it. Add my name to the list. Now circle the name of every person you think is suffering from a delusion. If you circled my name, please explain. I'm all ears.
Justice Alito is right about one thing. There are things that cannot be compromised. Specifically, there is the one thing he feels he has the right to compromise with impunity, and that is the idea that, in every context, we must treat one another the way we would want to be treated if the shoe was on the other foot. That doesn't mean treating an immature individual like a grownup, especially when that immature individual is a supreme court justice.
Very well put; I like the comparison of 1776 when some said they were free to 1865 when the government confirmed, without a doubt, that all men were and are free!
Juneteenth vs. the 4th of July
In other words, in 1776, one group declared themselves free of a government, while in 1865, another group was declared free by a government.. In both cases the underlying idea was that all men are considered equal, and should be granted the same rights and privileges by their government. About seventy years later, women were legally granted all of those rights and privileges also.
But now we are again seeing a major flaw in our nature. It is very difficult to convince a large percentage of any society that they are equal to, but no better than, everyone else. What people have a great deal of difficulty realizing is that we are all united by our insignificance. We will all disappear, and the world will go on without us, no matter how important we think we are.
I love this. A friend once told me, “Put your hand in a bucket of water, and then pull it out. Watch how quickly it fills in behind you. That’s how important you are.” It made good sense to me and has helped me put things in perspective. We can do our best to change and love the world, and should, but insignificance shouldn’t frighten, but free us.
We are important to ourselves and in many ways, to one another. Self-importance alone can become evil, but self-interest is Ok, I think, embedded in enough perspective. Our human societies, our collected human observations, arts, and values, are important to us, so why %#$& it all up? For what?
At every level of existence, from the cells that serve my body/me, to me ) serving my family, ) community, country, ) all life... we live in nested worlds. When we do not serve larger worlds they lose their ability to nurture us. If I don't nurture/feed my body it dies. This is call reciprocal maintenance. Every situation calls up our map of how we draw the nested worlds. President Biden sees himself serving individuals ) town ) country ) his God all as one thought. Others politicians see themselves as central and exclusive.
Love, "Our human societies, our collected human observations, arts, and values, are important to us, so why %#$& it all up?" by not serving the culture so it is nurturing.
And a planet that for all of it's risks and terrors offers astonishing beauty, nurture and adventure, gifted, along with our sentient lives, to we humans.
To all the creatures. Not just humans, but we're the creatures too dumb to control our numbers and to protect it.
And yet - some are convinced humans are the dominant species - dominant but dumb!
We study Biology in both Reductionist and Emergentism modes to explain life. Reducing more complex systems to more general concepts like cells and tissues of the vascular system emerge to carry nutrients through the entire body, and chemical bonds emerge to form macro molecules to form living cells. One day we might discover the entire earth biosphere emerges to fill yet higher emergent properties.
I think the thing many have lost is that the corollary of rights are responsibilities.
The responsibility to treat others with respect, to accept that one has no rights the other does not, unless they have transgressed against the laws, which must be proven snd the laws rationally and fairly constructed and enforced.
And that where we get to the problems of Christian nationalists and fearful racists. We need to explain their fears are groundless. Someday we'll be able to explain to them their god is a fantasy too, and can move on to a rational future.
Enjoy the scorching heat courtesy of the deniers of fact, the petroleum industry.
For the best example of the worst of us. How insane are we, self-importance alone is evil.
Sadly, our ability to destroy is not insignificant. We have learned to put a significant leak in the bucket, but it is we who will suffer. The universe will spin on without us…likely with a cockroach or two
I fall back on the world of interconnection the James Cameron dreamed in Avatar. Man's quest for Unobtanium, destroying the worlds in his search. And the natives on the blue planet who knew better.
You have shocked me. I dismissed Avatar as sci-fi bs. Maybe I should take a look
Yes, it is more than sci-fi, but also based on Native American culture.
Excerpts from my review of Avatar (2009)
When Na'vi approach another they greet with "I See You." Of course they see you with those big cat eyes, but the expression is more like "Namasté" a Sanskrit word that means the god in me recognizes the god in you.
Blended with this East Indian concept of one in spirit is the North American Native concept that: "All things are connected. Whatever befalls the earth befalls the children of the earth." (Chief Seattle, Suqwamish and Duwamish)
There is a scene where Jake, on learning the Na'vi ways is hunting and kills a Pandoran equivalent of a deer. As he dispatches the dying animal with his knife he says, "I see you brother. Thank You. Your soul will go to Eywa and your body will stay to be part of the people."
That reminded me of Native American culture:
“The Indian loved to come into sympathy and spiritual communion with his brothers of the animal kingdom, whose inarticulate souls had for him something of the sinless purity that we attribute to the innocent child. He had faith in their instincts, as in a mysterious wisdom given from above; and while he humbly accepted the supposedly voluntary sacrifice of their bodies to preserve his own, he paid homage to their spirits in prescribed prayers and offerings.” From The Soul of an Indian: An Interpretation by Charles Eastman, (Ohiyesa) 1858-1939
I have read about how those who used the animals revered their sacrifice. Quite different from our slaughterhouses. We are the heathens…
James Cameron didn't do sci-fi. It's a warning. And a dream.
Be nice if we heeded the warning
I've watched it twice. There used to be an animated movie/series years ago that I remember watching with my kids or grandkids - something like the premise in Avatar.
Thanks for educating me on this
And I had to look Avatar up to understand what you are talking about!
I've had to Google so much on here, a real education sometimes. Unless it comes from Rupert or clones
Jeri, and Keith Richards
Lordy
I told my grandson I had good news, bad news, and good news for him. The good news is he's the most important person in the world bar none. The bad news is he's tied for first place with roughly eight billion other human beings. And the good news is he's tied for first place.
True enough. I've heard the image used in discussions of managers dealing with subordinates threatening to leave. Not a flattering comparison in either direction. However, it should be noted that if 30 people all stick their hands in a bucket of water at once and the water rises to a level that it spills over, when they withdraw their hands, the bucket's water level drops. Also, a good reminder that working together on a cause can make a difference.
I'm positive that tfg has never heard that one! Seems to me it would be enlightening for him.
Well said! Thank you!
As an ESL teacher, one of my main jobs was not to teach content material or even fluency in speaking, reading, or writing English but to help students from many different countries with different religions and customs understand that one group or another was not better than or worse than the others. "Different from" was the operational thought pattern that we all worked on establishing. It's a principle that we still have to learn here: we all have equal value, regardless of who we are or where we came from or any of the other aspects of our background that make us different from each other, but neither better nor worse..
Great perspective, Betsy.
Rule #1 of the 10 commandments: “you shall have no gods before me” is a negation of all Religions that do not subscribe to the same God as mentioned in the Ten Commandments including Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism, Sikhism, Shinto, Taoism, Confucianism, Zoroastrianism, Scientology, Bahá'í Faith, Rastafarianism, Wicca, indigenous and folk religions, African traditional religions, Aboriginal Australian religions, Polynesian religions, and Siberian shamanism, New Age spirituality, Secular Humanism, Atheism, Agnosticism, Taoism and Confucianism.
So too with “honor the sabbath.” It’s a rule that teaches to exclude the other, the non-believer. Not cool for school.
Prohibition of taking the lord’s in vain is a violation of the first amendment.
Forbidding coveting (anti-envy) is an invitation to police thoughts.
If you want to post a code of ethics, great. No lying, stealing or murder. The end.
The other seven commandments are problematic and cause more harm than good. Much like 70% of religion.
I subscribe to Twain. “The easy confidence with which I know that another man’s religion is folly teaches me to suspect that mine is also.”
Absolutely! So many of his "Twainisms" just make clear how small and petty our beliefs & "feelings" really are.
And then I think of our Congress - need I say more?
The current crop of Christian’s are self-righteous cretins to a great extent. One bro thinks my other bro is not Christian enough and won’t talk to him. It’s more complicated than that, but the religious nonsense is just too much to take
Jeri, Its the same with every single possible issue there is - nonsense is exactly what it is. There is one religious phrase that seems to be completely forgotten - Do unto others etc??? Or how about Walk a mile in my shoes - another good one. Or maybe just treat people the way you would want to be treated. Honestly, its complete BS.
Can we add "practice kindness" to your code of ethics?
My new hat says MAKA. Make America Kind Again.
My hat says Make Americans Think Again.
Mine says Make America Intelligent Again
I am proudly wearing my Celtics hat. It represents teamwork at the highest level. When a group of talented individuals put their personal interests aside and prioritize the interests of all, everyone benefits.
The Boy Scout laws seem to have the bases covered.
Trustworthy
Loyal
Helpful
Friendly
Courteous
Kind
Obedient
Cheerful
Thrifty
Brave
Clean
Reverant (defined in my world as "respectful"
I believe the Boy Scouts had to change their name due to the untrustworthiness of their club.
I think it might not have been the "club" but the individuals drawn there for their own wants?
Ouch!
Gary, I was denied an Assistant Scoutmaster position in a Baltimore Area Council troop in 1966 because I did not have a religion. Reverent meant a belief in a god.
No! That's been hi-jacked. Maintain law and order. Be civil, teach respect. Kindness will follow, One can only hope. We have no country we can run to.
Shawn: Actually, honoring the sabbath means that for 1/7 of our lives we should rest. It means taking ourselves away from needing to be "productive" in favor of just being. Coveting isn't just envying; it's actively taking something from someone. Being commanded not to covet means your property is yours, and I should leave you alone to enjoy it. This is positive not negative and certainly not about police. You agree about not lying, stealing, or killing, all of which protect each individual and the society as do the other commandments.
BUT the biblical commandments should not be required to be posted in secular places like schools. That's fascism and contrary to our nation's Constitution.
Melinda, I appreciate the perspective. Thanks. And your interpretations are lovely. Your motives are to bring solace where you sense my frustration. You are driven by kindness.
If the Ten Commandments and the lessons of the Bible were interpreted universally through good will like yours, we would live in the kind of world I see in my daughter’s picture books where we learn lessons about respecting others and embracing differences. In Hollywood movies, the good guys are GOOD.
In situations like Louisiana, the motives are not to bring calm and community, but to create conflict and pain. Indeed, the governor signed the law saying “I can’t wait to get sued.” How can you adhere to God’s laws and also be motivated to pick fights?
Hi Shawn, Thanks for your response. Your observation that Gov. Landry has a deep-seated problem is evidenced by essentially using that playground taunt: "So there! I dare ya! Sue me!" That posture is contrary to the life you characterize as respectfully embracing differences. The fighting stance betrays an insecurity. People who want to shove their views on others need, for some reason, to denigrate and dismiss optional views so that theirs alone is on the table.
Another way to approach the religious convictions of people unlike oneself is to ask questions and notice what is different and what is similar and say something like, "Oh how interesting!" Each view gets more helpfully defined; neither tears the other down.
The Bible is the most evil thing on the planet. Next to all the other religious nonsense.
Religion is just like all other man-made institutions. It can used for evil or for good.
The problem I have with it is the concept of an infallible entity who cannot be questioned. If you do wickedness in the name of this thing, you can use it to claim piety.
Get rid of the justification and stand on the merits of your act. Removing it to the responsibility of god told me to do it simply changes the discussion to whether or not it’s authorized by the inscrutable and false diety
There's a book I remember reading many years ago, that had as its premise: What if we lived our lives based LITERALLY on what it says in the Bible? Some of it was very tongue-in-cheek.
I believe that might have been A.J. Jacob's book "A Year of Living Biblically"?
I LOVE that book! It should get more readers, but I think atheists would be turned off by the title, and those very devote will think it treats the bible as a farce. I found it to be humorous--he has a great way with words, and yet sincere. He tries to be respectful of the theology behind various practices and understand them.
Before I retired, I worked with many Muslims. I asked questions about their faith with honest curiosity, and they all came to respect my questions as they recognized I truly wanted to understand.
I learn much from HCR and those who comment on the forum. I must say though, I'm dismayed by the dismissive and sometimes rude posts put up to anyone who has religious faith. It's yet another reason I am upset with Trump and MAGA: just like I am now leery of flying our flag for fear of being judged as "MAGA", I am also reluctant to discuss belief in God, as in my opinion, the hypocritical evangelicals have stolen religion, too. If I find comfort in believing in a loving higher power, don't dismiss other's religion (or lack of) nor try to control/conform anyone else, my personal faith shouldn't be an issue with them.
I'm already well aware of the wars fought over religion, the horrible acts that are done in "God's name" etc, I don't need those reminders. I just find it a bit hypocritical as well, when I hear liberals (and I am liberal, btw) declare they embrace all people and yet automatically slam the door on any person who believes in God. Can't we be better than this?
Miselle - its what people take away from the Bible & other religious teachings - whether comfort in believing, or someone finding one small piece of a verse that they believe enables hypocritical actions. I really dont have that much faith anymore whether I ever did, but if believing provides comfort - what difference does it make which God someone believes in? Sometimes thats the only thing a person has.
Right now? I guess we really cant be better than this!
Yes! Thanks for remembering the name of the book and its author. My sister had recommended it to me, and I loved it.
Miselle, we are kindred spirits. Thank you.
We're all atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do.
Phrase of the day.
Yeah.. good post, Shawn Shawn. I keep asking, "who" wrote that "book"..?? Having just read an article by Lauren Windsor and listening to a recording of creepster Roger Stone at a Cathoilics for prayer get-together at Mar-a-lago. I'm beginning to think it might've been some distant relative of Roger Stone (puke!!). He and his 'toters' cause me to feel ill. Keep an eye on that POS... total slime.
God dang it.
You might want to take a look at The Humanists Ten Commitments. They make a great deal more sense to me.
I like to put music to your perfect post, Betsy. Everyday People, compliments of Sly and the Family Stone:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3JvkaUvB-ec
The connection of music to societal issues is deeply imbedded in our cultures
https://youtu.be/t2h4yoCVX4U?si=cdp6uO5Wn2HCjGLv
Ooh, nice; thanks, Dave!
Thanks at 4am
I'd be back in bed
I did, after feeding cats and reading HCR
Nice!!
My mother used to tell me when I asked why some people treated others so badly that those folks NEEDED somebody to look down on. That is still true today.
Yes, very true, Jenn. And that need is based on fear of losing power. The underbelly of human nature.
Too bad people did not realize there is enough for everyone. We just have to get up and work our arses off for our share.
Your mother nailed it.
“As an ESL teacher, one of my main jobs was not to teach content material or even fluency in speaking, reading, or writing English but to help students from many different countries with different religions and customs understand that one group or another was not better than or worse than the others.”
Thanks for your post, Betsy. I was a volunteer ESL tutor for many years. Actually…it was my students who taught me…
And along with Equality we need to respect each other. Easy to write, but hard to put in action when you're dealing with people hell bent on dividing us.
Why I always hated the song on Sesame Street, this one thing is not like the other, this one thing does not belong…
We have to learn that differences are what make life possible... even at the level of the cosmos, if the sun was the same as the earth, no inner levels in our nest worlds could exist.
My niece was teaching an ESL class the last I knew. She is a retired high school teacher - cant remember if she taught English or History. I'll have to ask her.
Oh! Oldandintheway, I laughed out loud as you put everything into perspective. Isn't it great being old? Granting rights and privileges equally to others is more important than our measly little self. LOL
Dag… It’s so inexpensive now as a senior riding the metro north to NY and riding the subways.
Bill, you are a poet.
I wish some would disappear sooner than others.
Oldandintheway,
Well said....We have very weak and insecure white males....always trying to control women or people of color....to use or destroy anyone they consider vulnerable. This attitude has not changed since the Civil War...or "from the beginning".
Most are dangerous empty vessels.....of course with guns.....to fill their insecurities with a sense of power.
Thank God for the few, for the brave who actually are willing to give their lives to this country...to all of its people...to work throughout the world to build relationships...to work for peace, NOT war....to work for the economic good for all....to care for people of all skin colors...to care for our children...the hope of the world....to care for those who are living in poverty...to give a hand up NOT a boot in the face.
Those supporting Trump are blind and pathetic. This man stole government documents saying they were his! No they are not yours! Those documents belong to the government to the people of the USA. Presidents are elected to serve and to protect this nation and all of its people. ( Pence and Biden immediately returned those documents found in their homes.)
What is really gross and disgusting to me are the women who worship at his feet!!!! This man is a rapist.....this man talks about women as objects .....and treats his wife with disrespect by being with other women. He has been married three times and Christians think he is wonderful when he holds a Bible that he never reads!!!!
Oldandintheway, Yes," We will all disappear, and the world will go on without us, no matter how important we think we are" BUT, I have beloved children and grandchildren who will be here. They are very good and giving people, as far as humans can be. I DO care for their future and for those who continue to be born in this world. I also believe in making some positive contribution to the wellbeing of this world...does not need to be grand ...but something. I also pray that they will not be caught up in the lies of dictators or "want-a-be" Presidents.
Good Evening, Oldandintheway!
You are spot on as usual. We are all united in our insignificance, but also in our individual, varied beyond imagination significance. All of us need to realize that the Sun will rise in the East tomorrow without us, while yearning to make this sun splashed orb better while we are here.
Thanks for your commentary, and before I forget, how about that Jayson Tatum!
Congratulations to the Celtics. May they enjoy their well earned title, and their 18th championship before the Lakers tie them next year!
From what I can tell, humility is the gateway to wisdom.
My husband was extremely ecstatic! He loves Tatum and Brown.
well said. we are specks in the universe - most of us try to do our best to lead a good life with goals of kindness, inclusion and intelligence
Thank you for your comment. It has a great deal of meaning to me, another "oldandintheway" "senior". Maybe finding out that you are not better than anyone else and that we are all united by our insignificance is something you do not learn until you are "oldandintheway". It makes me appreciate that I am privileged to have reached this age.
Tidy thought. Thank you😉🎶
Thank Old Man, you are exactly correct.
In addition to agreeing with literally everything Oldandintheway is saying, I would like to share the following idea.
We are also united by a species-specific social instinct that is telling all of us to treat one another with respect, even though there are so many who have learned how to ignore that message. But the vast majority of us believe in something, whether that something is a religion, science, democracy, capitalism, etc. The good news is they're all a context-specific manifestation of our social instinct. There's only one way avoid that conclusion, and that is to avoid looking at the evidence.
I'll assume everyone agrees that every legitimate religion is based on the Golden Rule. So is science. Me thinking my hypothesis is right doesn't make it right or wrong, nor does it give me the right to impose it on others. Instead, it must be subjected to rigorous skepticism. So is capitalism, as I've pointed out in previous comments, because it is based on Adam Smith's Theory of Moral Sentiments (1759), and not on Milton Freidman's "theory of immoral sentiments" aka Capitalism and Freedom (1961).
In other words, we're all speaking different languages that are all misunderstood by both the speakers and the listeners despite the fact that they (the languages) are all built up from the same "mutual respect" foundation.
Draw a vertical line down the center of a piece of paper. On the left side, list all the names of people you know who are appalled and frightened by possibility of a Trump victory in November. Add my name to the list. On the right side, list all the names of people you know who think the way to guarantee a Biden victory is simple enough that a child in elementary school would understand it. Add my name to the list. Now circle the name of every person you think is suffering from a delusion. If you circled my name, please explain. I'm all ears.
Justice Alito is right about one thing. There are things that cannot be compromised. Specifically, there is the one thing he feels he has the right to compromise with impunity, and that is the idea that, in every context, we must treat one another the way we would want to be treated if the shoe was on the other foot. That doesn't mean treating an immature individual like a grownup, especially when that immature individual is a supreme court justice.
Very well put; I like the comparison of 1776 when some said they were free to 1865 when the government confirmed, without a doubt, that all men were and are free!
I you put that beautifully 🙏