— No red state that has enacted voter suppression laws will now rescind them based on the overwhelming and indisputable evidence they were duped into believing the Big Lie.
— Not a penny will be returned to the MAGAs who donated $250 million to Trump's non-existent election defense fund.
— No red state that has enacted voter suppression laws will now rescind them based on the overwhelming and indisputable evidence they were duped into believing the Big Lie.
— Not a penny will be returned to the MAGAs who donated $250 million to Trump's non-existent election defense fund.
On a brighter note, Trump and his fellow fraudsters are imagining with more frequency what life behind bars will be like. It will be worse than they think.
Michael, In my view, the GOP controlled state legislatures in red (and purple) states were not “duped into believing the Big Lie.” Rather these state legislators used the “big lie” as cover to lay the groundwork for MAGA Republicans to return to or attain power whether or not they win enough votes. Hence, as we speak, these state leaders are changing state election rules to change who can be in charge, how votes are counted, and how they’re certified.
As for you noting that “life behind bars” for Trump and his coterie “will be worse than they think,” you could be right. Nonetheless, I am far more concerned for the rest of us if we don’t summon all of our resources to reinvigorate the sanctity of our Constitution and the rule of law, without which we lose the capacity for governing ourselves.
Just last week I was asked to sign a petition to about “tightening” election integrity in Michigan. My state had a very well run and fair election and I politely said this to the person seeking my signature. Also, a candidate on the Republiqan gubernatorial primary ticket is running a tv commercial featuring a man dressed as a zombie, while the candidate claims that, if elected, he will purge the voter rolls of dead people, who always vote for Democrats. I wish the local Democratic party would run at least one ad hitting hard on just how fair and secure our last election was. We MUST counter their propaganda.
Small but significant thing: It’s the Democratic Party, not the Democrat Party. As long ago as the 1940s, Republicans started mis-pronouncing the name of the other party, a subtle slur intended to show that Democrats were not entitled to the respect involved in learning the name of their party.
Ah, yes, the "ease of snark" that has undermined civility in social media "discussions." I love the way conversations are so respectful in this community. What helped me here was learning the background of why it matters to get it right.
How many of us remember when 'queer' meant 'peculiar"? Growing up, we had a book in the family bookcase titled "Grandfather was Queer". I'm guessing my maternal grandfather bought it because there was a brief chapter about an 18th century forebear in New England who was transferred from pulpit to pulpit of several churches because of his relationships with various women in the congregations. Eventually, he was forced to marry one whom he made pregnant but soon deserted her and left for a different state. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/7146595-grandfather-was-queer
Cathy, My sense is that any of us living in states attempting to upend free and fair elections need to seek out local civic organizations that are pushing back.
I always ask canvassers who is backing the petition. They almost never know. Then I point out why that's an issue for them to be asking for signature and acknowledge I know they are getting paid and it's a job and I'm not down on them... but.... My husband also asks "is it for kids, whales or LGBGQ+?" If not, not signing.
Can’t blame a person for taking a job but can decry a system that makes it cheap to put items on the ballot by petition. In California, for example, anyone (or group) with a couple million dollars can force a recall election for any elected state office. The state must then shell out a couple hundred million to pay for the recall election.
What I wish is that these misleading, false statements will be taken to court. People should pay for lying to the American Public on situations that affect constitutional conduct. Maybe then it will stop.
Maybe it’s better to allow any speech and avoid the problem of having to decide what’s allowed and what isn’t since that process could be abused, but isn’t Trump’s use of the big lie to cause mayhem in our political system the equivalent of someone falsely yelling “Fire!” In a crowded theater?
Someone told me that since our Michigan Democratic Party's candidate, Gretchen Whitmer is running unopposed on the primary ticket, the party doesn't invest in ads against the Republican candidates (yet). Seeing as 3 repugs in that race have already been kicked off the ballot for fraud, I can see the point. Sure would be nice if The Lincoln Project would take a wack at dead clown face though.
I have had this argument with the one ex-classmate in Indiana who is concerned with voter fraud. Here when a person passes, the county issues a death certificate and at the same time takes the person off the voting rolls.
I just read an article about this nonsense being alive and well in Oregon. A libertarian requested the file that checks if software is working properly before the election in each county. This is in Washington County in the Portland area. The county said no and the local district attorney said yes, so the county took it to court which is still pending. Part of the problem is security and having this would allow bad players to interfere. In the meantime this person accidentally received the file which was included in something the county did give him. He was honest that he had it and the county has a restraining order so that he can't share it although he may already have. The sec.of state is involved on the side of the county. Not resolved yet, but there are plenty of people in every state looking to do things like this and be intimidating poll watchers.
It's becoming clearer that the only chance to see Trump in handcuffs is his election tampering here in Georgia. His taped request of Sec. of State Raffensberger to "find the votes," could be his ticket to a jail cell. One can only hope.
Randy, Call me whatever, but I sense that increasing public pressure plus DOJ’s increasing interest in the Select Committee hearings could result in indictments of high-level officials up to and including Trump.
But it is a very clean legal charge, easily proven like tax fraud. So it won't matter what MAGAtes think. What matters is it appears that Rupert (and I suspect Koch and big business bucks) have started dumping trump, and DeSatan will rise out of the muck. Things could get worse in this country unless it catalyzes "The Big Split" in the Republican party. Is Senator Liz Cheney planning a run for President in 2024?
Good morning Barbara. I’m thinking a lot this week about the American people…all of us this time. Politics Girl, Leigh McGowan mirrors a conversation that I had yesterday with a trump supporter that chose to watch the hearings and is, let’s say, having a difficult time. I told this acquaintance almost exactly what Leigh just put out in one of her two minute rants. And asked her the same question at the end. “Do you care about our democracy?” And would only continue our convo when the answer was “yes”. https://youtu.be/mci9EdwqLs4
I'm thinking the ACLU is going to be doing a heckuva lot of fundraising to pay for the multitude of lawsuits that will result from the GQPs tinkering with state level election boards and all the other "tweaking and adjusting" those scoundrels are pulling.
That’s probably part of the overarching plan explained by Bannon as “Flood the Zone with Shit”. They strategize that to go after all the fraud will be too costly and time consuming. Democracy’s Death by a thousand lawsuits.
After their involvement in the Depp-Heard fiasco, they are off my donation list for a while. That's not what I donated and joined to have my support directed into. That's fraud too.
@T L Mills, I think you’re right. Hence my reason for viewing ACLU ( and LDF) donations, plus some others, as rent for their acting on all our behalf’s to protect our democracy.
Yes, it's time right now for us "to summon all our resources." I went to an amazing Arena Summit this weekend and was inspired by a host of powerful citizens doing the hard hard work of resuscitating democracy and as Cecile Richards said, the road ahead is hard, but no one is coming to save us.
The losses at the state level have been going on for years. Democrats are just now wiping the sleep out of their eyes and saying “Golly. How did this happen?”
The Obama presidency got the ball rolling.
“In 2009, President Obama’s party controlled both chambers of 27 state legislatures. Eight years later, Democrats control both chambers in only 13 states. Among the states that slipped from Democratic control are Wisconsin, North Carolina, Iowa and West Virginia; states key to the victory of President-elect Donald Trump last November. According to a report from the National Conference of State Legislatures, the Democratic Party has lost a net total of 13 Governorships and 816 state legislative seats since President Obama entered office, the most of any president since Dwight Eisenhower.“
Yup. These young people understand that better than anybody and are doing something about it. We need to move past endlessly describing the problem and get to work solving it.
@H. H. Rose, I appreciate you amplifying how, contrary to Democrats, Republicans, for decades, have methodically been organizing to fill state and local positions with their own people. I also have noted, as a recent subscriber to Robert Hubbell’s Substack, that Robert regularly introduces readers to civic organization that do extraordinary work mobilizing for democracy at the state and local levels. Like Joy, who is part of this thread, I, too, take heart from the presence, particularly of young people, whose energy and engagement is focused both on out-organizing Republicans and on defending democracy, as mentioned, statewide and locally.
I shouldn't have applied "duped" to everyone on that side. There's no way to know how many of those in power at the state level knew the election wasn't stolen or how many purely exploited the greatest falsehood in the nation's history. At this point anyone who sincerely believes the Big Lie is irrational or willfully ignorant. Despite their gaudy Stars and Stripes attire, they are anything but patriots.
So I assume they don't know Trump's key appointees are saying the Big Lie was a lie all along. Or they believe whatever Trump says is akin to the word of God.
Never before have so many Americans been essentially brain-washed.
There was an article in the NYT today about how Ukraine is undergoing the same persecutions that happened under the Hitler regime, among others. This threat is so real, yet so unrecognized. Lies and more lies brainwashed millions of Germans who bought the lie. This is happening now in the United States of America. I'm at a loss about how to respond to this crisis.
On second thought, with legal experts saying that Trump and others could be convicted of wire fraud for soliciting the donations and then using them for other purposes, it is conceivable that a court judgment could include an order to refund the money.
Upon trump's indictment ALL of his assets, every single penny, will be forfeited into the government coffers to be disbursed according to future Court dispensation determinations.
Indictment is only a formal accusation of a crime. Conviction is what is needed. Though he could transfer assets to others - like Ivanka, etc. - to keep that from happening.
That's certainly a possible legal remedy; a class action is a possibility as well. A granular investigation into several of the 60+ failed "lawsuits" would be useful. Several may have been dismissed in 72 to 96 hours, start to finish. The "Big Lie" turned into the "Big Grift" aka Fraud-in-the-Inducement. Question. Were the very short lived "BS" lawsuits attached to the non-existing "Election Defense Fund" (Sic).
Voter suppression laws should be declared illegal by the federal government and immediately rescinded, before November. I know I sound idealistic, but is there any way we can make that happen?
Mona, I realize your question is not addressed to me and hope you don’t mind my replying. My understanding is that our system provides only one remedy for offsetting the High Court’s gutting, first of Section 5, and more recently of Section 2, of the 1965 Voting Rights Act— Congressional legislation that gets signed into law by the President.
We came mighty close last January when all 50 Senate Democrats voted to advance the Freedom to Vote: John R. Lewis Voting Rights Act. Regrettably, its passage ultimately was blocked by Manchin and Sinema, who joined the 50 Republicans to oppose a modest filibuster rule change that would have allowed for an up or down majority vote and would have applied solely to this one bill.
Seeing that the legislation already has passed in the House, we’re waiting on the Senate to act, which appears highly unlikely.
Patricia, What I hear from West Virginians is that Manchin is the only Democrat who could win a statewide election. Additionally, as the state turns more red and increasing numbers of the state’s Democrats are disturbed by his obstruction regarding issues they care about, I’ve been told that Manchin likely could lose his seat in 24 to a Republican.
MaryPat, My understanding is that West Virginians prioritize jobs, healthcare, childcare, housing, and tax reform (all part of Budget Reconciliation —BBB that Manchin opposed ) as their most vital needs. It further is of note that workers associated with the United Coal Miners Union are itching for training that would allow them to make the transition from fossil fuel to clean energy jobs.
Thank you. I don't mind at all. John R. Lewis did so much for this country. What a waste to have his work end up shredded by partisan politics. Remember how Republicans introduced legislation to get rid of the ACA, over and over and over? Well, we need to do something similar about voting rights, over and over and over again, very publicly. And we need to report to constituents in Manchin's and Sinema's states what these 2 elected politicians are doing to our country and who is funding their campaigns. Also, McConnell has way too much power in Congress.
Judith, Though your comment is not addressed to me, I write because I fully agree that obstruction, particularly from Manchin and Sinema, has been especially damaging both to the Biden agenda (BBB) and also to their respective constituents. For example, West Virginians have prioritized jobs, healthcare, childcare, housing, and tax reform as vital to their well-being. Moreover, the state’s workers represented by the United Coal Miners Union are itching for the training to help them make the transition from the fossil fuel industry to clean energy jobs. In Arizona, the prominent issues entail calls for expanding healthcare, while also holding Sinema accountable for her unseemly corporate ties, especially to Big Pharma.
Circling back to your comment, nationwide, the country clearly needs tough, strong leadership to educate people about what they’re losing every time Biden’s agenda is stalled.
Mona, This past January, after the federal voter protection legislation failed to pass, scores of us expressed our deep disappointment that the President had not called out Manchin’s and Sinema’s mere support for voting rights as hollow and performative, absent their resolve to do their part to figure out how the filibuster could be modified to pass the legislation under regular order, even if it meant taking a long time (Dems had proposed 100 hours for each party) to get an up or down majority vote.
I imagine currently, amid the backdrop of the 1/6 Select Committee hearings, not to mention the unilateral passage, in state after state, of bills that restricts voting and nullifies votes, were Democratic leadership, with the federal voter protection safeguards in hand, to go to West Virginia, and also to the red parts of Mississippi and Alabama and to other states and say, “This is what we have tried to deliver and these folks have voted against it, I believe they would be far from alone in concluding that January 6th could well be mere practice for the next time unless we engage now in the necessary actions to ensure eligible votes in every state are cast and counted correctly, without interference, nor diluted through partisan gerrymandering.
In California and, I expect in the other 7 states, the gerrymandering has been more or less stopped due to successful citizen initiatives to remove redistricting from elected officials and have "non-partisan" commissions do the job. However, in California (where I am), there still has been an effort to get partisan members on the commission in order to play gerrymandering games.
trump pitiful soul captured by deception's lie will soon inhabit a community that only knows living by the lie: a well deserved end of life consequence...good riddance, Eh!?
Michael, I agree with your first two observations but as far as your "brighter note" is concerned, not so sure. As much as I'd love, love, love to see trump behind bars, for the sake of the country, I wish he'd run away with his tail tucked between his knees to Russia or anywhere. Even if it's proven to the white supremacy groups that the big lie is just that, it was an opportunity to group and come out in the open. If trump is put in prison, there will be a civil war that we don't want to happen.
I’m not persuaded there would be a civil war if Dumpster were put in prison. I think all but a tiny fraction of the MAGA crowd would prefer to yell at the TV from their comfy recliners.
But there are those like the man who posted that he killed his beloved dog to see if he could kill somebody he didn’t know. That the ugliest man alive caused such insanity is hard to fathom.
Wow, I missed that story. So deeply disturbing. One wonders whether he is still a dedicated MAGA supporter, prepared to go to horrific extremes for "the cause" or whether he has had second thoughts. That story is almost Biblical, in a very twisted way. As if Dumpster were a very perverted version of g*d, that man were Abraham, and he actually killed his beloved son (dog) because he thought his g*d demanded it as proof of his devotion.
There won't be a civil war if tRump is imprisoned because the MAGAtes will have a new devil to worship, and Rupert is offering him up on Fox now, Desatan.
But some of them will find the scales falling from their eyes and realize that T___p is not only a crook, but a crook who is after their money--not someone else's. They will cease to support him.
We don't need to get all of his supporters to drop him, just enough to make him less of a danger or no longer a danger.
Going out on a limb here...
— No red state that has enacted voter suppression laws will now rescind them based on the overwhelming and indisputable evidence they were duped into believing the Big Lie.
— Not a penny will be returned to the MAGAs who donated $250 million to Trump's non-existent election defense fund.
On a brighter note, Trump and his fellow fraudsters are imagining with more frequency what life behind bars will be like. It will be worse than they think.
Michael, In my view, the GOP controlled state legislatures in red (and purple) states were not “duped into believing the Big Lie.” Rather these state legislators used the “big lie” as cover to lay the groundwork for MAGA Republicans to return to or attain power whether or not they win enough votes. Hence, as we speak, these state leaders are changing state election rules to change who can be in charge, how votes are counted, and how they’re certified.
As for you noting that “life behind bars” for Trump and his coterie “will be worse than they think,” you could be right. Nonetheless, I am far more concerned for the rest of us if we don’t summon all of our resources to reinvigorate the sanctity of our Constitution and the rule of law, without which we lose the capacity for governing ourselves.
Just last week I was asked to sign a petition to about “tightening” election integrity in Michigan. My state had a very well run and fair election and I politely said this to the person seeking my signature. Also, a candidate on the Republiqan gubernatorial primary ticket is running a tv commercial featuring a man dressed as a zombie, while the candidate claims that, if elected, he will purge the voter rolls of dead people, who always vote for Democrats. I wish the local Democratic party would run at least one ad hitting hard on just how fair and secure our last election was. We MUST counter their propaganda.
Small but significant thing: It’s the Democratic Party, not the Democrat Party. As long ago as the 1940s, Republicans started mis-pronouncing the name of the other party, a subtle slur intended to show that Democrats were not entitled to the respect involved in learning the name of their party.
Thank you. Last time I pointed that out, I was accused of being "nit-picky".
Just because you're nit-picky doesn't mean you're wrong, it means you're paying close attention and that words matter.
Indeed they do!
Ah, yes, the "ease of snark" that has undermined civility in social media "discussions." I love the way conversations are so respectful in this community. What helped me here was learning the background of why it matters to get it right.
Not by me, I trust
Fixed, thank you.
I dunno, can't we just appropriate that, like the word "queer" or "nerd"?
That doesn't sit well with me. YMMV. (And I am a queer band geek).
How many of us remember when 'queer' meant 'peculiar"? Growing up, we had a book in the family bookcase titled "Grandfather was Queer". I'm guessing my maternal grandfather bought it because there was a brief chapter about an 18th century forebear in New England who was transferred from pulpit to pulpit of several churches because of his relationships with various women in the congregations. Eventually, he was forced to marry one whom he made pregnant but soon deserted her and left for a different state. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/7146595-grandfather-was-queer
Tit for tat...
Republikers.
Cathy, My sense is that any of us living in states attempting to upend free and fair elections need to seek out local civic organizations that are pushing back.
League of Women voters have been active in suing to rescind some of these laws.
I always ask canvassers who is backing the petition. They almost never know. Then I point out why that's an issue for them to be asking for signature and acknowledge I know they are getting paid and it's a job and I'm not down on them... but.... My husband also asks "is it for kids, whales or LGBGQ+?" If not, not signing.
excellent point.
Ask the same of ANY advertising.
Always follow the money.
Can’t blame a person for taking a job but can decry a system that makes it cheap to put items on the ballot by petition. In California, for example, anyone (or group) with a couple million dollars can force a recall election for any elected state office. The state must then shell out a couple hundred million to pay for the recall election.
What I wish is that these misleading, false statements will be taken to court. People should pay for lying to the American Public on situations that affect constitutional conduct. Maybe then it will stop.
I wish so too. However, these "cheaters" revel in their lying prowess.
Personally, I feel when people lie to your face, they should be exposed, shunned and face dire consequences.
Maybe it’s better to allow any speech and avoid the problem of having to decide what’s allowed and what isn’t since that process could be abused, but isn’t Trump’s use of the big lie to cause mayhem in our political system the equivalent of someone falsely yelling “Fire!” In a crowded theater?
I think it is. But maybe there's a better shot at making a case for wire fraud because clearly there was no legal fraud fund.
Yes, money is the cleanest way to the (pig) pen.
Yes, yes, yes
Wish Dems had not dissed Bloomberg. He has the means to counter the lies, not local but Rupert’s lies all around the land.
Yes, but I truly resent the idea that we have to buy our democracy.
Someone told me that since our Michigan Democratic Party's candidate, Gretchen Whitmer is running unopposed on the primary ticket, the party doesn't invest in ads against the Republican candidates (yet). Seeing as 3 repugs in that race have already been kicked off the ballot for fraud, I can see the point. Sure would be nice if The Lincoln Project would take a wack at dead clown face though.
I have had this argument with the one ex-classmate in Indiana who is concerned with voter fraud. Here when a person passes, the county issues a death certificate and at the same time takes the person off the voting rolls.
I just read an article about this nonsense being alive and well in Oregon. A libertarian requested the file that checks if software is working properly before the election in each county. This is in Washington County in the Portland area. The county said no and the local district attorney said yes, so the county took it to court which is still pending. Part of the problem is security and having this would allow bad players to interfere. In the meantime this person accidentally received the file which was included in something the county did give him. He was honest that he had it and the county has a restraining order so that he can't share it although he may already have. The sec.of state is involved on the side of the county. Not resolved yet, but there are plenty of people in every state looking to do things like this and be intimidating poll watchers.
😡
It's becoming clearer that the only chance to see Trump in handcuffs is his election tampering here in Georgia. His taped request of Sec. of State Raffensberger to "find the votes," could be his ticket to a jail cell. One can only hope.
Randy, Call me whatever, but I sense that increasing public pressure plus DOJ’s increasing interest in the Select Committee hearings could result in indictments of high-level officials up to and including Trump.
No doubt. We must let this concert play out to its crescendo end at DOJ!
When I heard that, I thought well, he’s cooked his goose. Only to hear MAGAts say that they didn’t care.
But it is a very clean legal charge, easily proven like tax fraud. So it won't matter what MAGAtes think. What matters is it appears that Rupert (and I suspect Koch and big business bucks) have started dumping trump, and DeSatan will rise out of the muck. Things could get worse in this country unless it catalyzes "The Big Split" in the Republican party. Is Senator Liz Cheney planning a run for President in 2024?
Or, as we learned during the J6 Hearing on Monday, wire fraud could be his downfall.
Good morning Barbara. I’m thinking a lot this week about the American people…all of us this time. Politics Girl, Leigh McGowan mirrors a conversation that I had yesterday with a trump supporter that chose to watch the hearings and is, let’s say, having a difficult time. I told this acquaintance almost exactly what Leigh just put out in one of her two minute rants. And asked her the same question at the end. “Do you care about our democracy?” And would only continue our convo when the answer was “yes”. https://youtu.be/mci9EdwqLs4
UNITA.
Christine, As one who does not know how to speak with Trump supporters, I so appreciate the link. Warmly, Barbara
Very sharable.
Thank you Christine. This is so right on. Just subscribed.
I'm thinking the ACLU is going to be doing a heckuva lot of fundraising to pay for the multitude of lawsuits that will result from the GQPs tinkering with state level election boards and all the other "tweaking and adjusting" those scoundrels are pulling.
That’s probably part of the overarching plan explained by Bannon as “Flood the Zone with Shit”. They strategize that to go after all the fraud will be too costly and time consuming. Democracy’s Death by a thousand lawsuits.
On my donation list
After their involvement in the Depp-Heard fiasco, they are off my donation list for a while. That's not what I donated and joined to have my support directed into. That's fraud too.
Ugh, had no idea. What were they thinking…
Yep, mine as well. Has been for years--they do good and necessary work!
https://action.aclu.org/give/now
@T L Mills, I think you’re right. Hence my reason for viewing ACLU ( and LDF) donations, plus some others, as rent for their acting on all our behalf’s to protect our democracy.
Yes, it's time right now for us "to summon all our resources." I went to an amazing Arena Summit this weekend and was inspired by a host of powerful citizens doing the hard hard work of resuscitating democracy and as Cecile Richards said, the road ahead is hard, but no one is coming to save us.
Bumpy but so is life
The losses at the state level have been going on for years. Democrats are just now wiping the sleep out of their eyes and saying “Golly. How did this happen?”
The Obama presidency got the ball rolling.
“In 2009, President Obama’s party controlled both chambers of 27 state legislatures. Eight years later, Democrats control both chambers in only 13 states. Among the states that slipped from Democratic control are Wisconsin, North Carolina, Iowa and West Virginia; states key to the victory of President-elect Donald Trump last November. According to a report from the National Conference of State Legislatures, the Democratic Party has lost a net total of 13 Governorships and 816 state legislative seats since President Obama entered office, the most of any president since Dwight Eisenhower.“
https://www.quorum.us/data-driven-insights/under-obama-democrats-suffer-largest-loss-in-power-since-eisenhower/
This has been the Republican plan for many years. Start of the local level and move up.
And the losses continue.
Yup. These young people understand that better than anybody and are doing something about it. We need to move past endlessly describing the problem and get to work solving it.
A half black president brought the slime from under their rocks. Sorry slime
And that was absolutely a big part of the situation.
A Black Family moving into a White House. More than a lot of people were prepared to accept.
And then he wanted to make America over into his liberal, community organizer image. More than a lot of people were prepared to accept.
A truly nice person with minimal legislative victories to show for eight years.
@H. H. Rose, I appreciate you amplifying how, contrary to Democrats, Republicans, for decades, have methodically been organizing to fill state and local positions with their own people. I also have noted, as a recent subscriber to Robert Hubbell’s Substack, that Robert regularly introduces readers to civic organization that do extraordinary work mobilizing for democracy at the state and local levels. Like Joy, who is part of this thread, I, too, take heart from the presence, particularly of young people, whose energy and engagement is focused both on out-organizing Republicans and on defending democracy, as mentioned, statewide and locally.
RedMap 2010
I shouldn't have applied "duped" to everyone on that side. There's no way to know how many of those in power at the state level knew the election wasn't stolen or how many purely exploited the greatest falsehood in the nation's history. At this point anyone who sincerely believes the Big Lie is irrational or willfully ignorant. Despite their gaudy Stars and Stripes attire, they are anything but patriots.
I have acquaintances who refuse to watch the J-6 Committee Hearings because it is all a pack of lies.
So I assume they don't know Trump's key appointees are saying the Big Lie was a lie all along. Or they believe whatever Trump says is akin to the word of God.
Never before have so many Americans been essentially brain-washed.
There was an article in the NYT today about how Ukraine is undergoing the same persecutions that happened under the Hitler regime, among others. This threat is so real, yet so unrecognized. Lies and more lies brainwashed millions of Germans who bought the lie. This is happening now in the United States of America. I'm at a loss about how to respond to this crisis.
They believe that anything said by “main stream media” is a lie (because DJT told them this).
And they will never know that tRump’s closest allies/appointees told him he lost the election because it will only be reported by MSM.
This is a tragedy, for your acquaintances and the country. All caused by Trump, a national malignancy like no other.
On second thought, with legal experts saying that Trump and others could be convicted of wire fraud for soliciting the donations and then using them for other purposes, it is conceivable that a court judgment could include an order to refund the money.
Upon trump's indictment ALL of his assets, every single penny, will be forfeited into the government coffers to be disbursed according to future Court dispensation determinations.
🙏🏻
Indictment is only a formal accusation of a crime. Conviction is what is needed. Though he could transfer assets to others - like Ivanka, etc. - to keep that from happening.
Seriously?
That's certainly a possible legal remedy; a class action is a possibility as well. A granular investigation into several of the 60+ failed "lawsuits" would be useful. Several may have been dismissed in 72 to 96 hours, start to finish. The "Big Lie" turned into the "Big Grift" aka Fraud-in-the-Inducement. Question. Were the very short lived "BS" lawsuits attached to the non-existing "Election Defense Fund" (Sic).
George Conway tweeted that there is good cause for a class action suit.
As long as he’s still married to the alternate facts woman I have no respect for his opinion.
How those two cohabitate is beyond me!
Maybe a call to the lawyers who handled the "Trump University" fraud?
I'm torn as to which to call it, the Big Grift or the Big Rip-off🤔
Both fit!
Words are important; I am going with the "Big Grift", grifters, grift targets: create words & meaning that work. Linguists help!
I agree. It just sounds better, too.
Rip off. I suspect a lot of grifters (and their fans) don't know what the term "grifter" means.
Voter suppression laws should be declared illegal by the federal government and immediately rescinded, before November. I know I sound idealistic, but is there any way we can make that happen?
Mona, I realize your question is not addressed to me and hope you don’t mind my replying. My understanding is that our system provides only one remedy for offsetting the High Court’s gutting, first of Section 5, and more recently of Section 2, of the 1965 Voting Rights Act— Congressional legislation that gets signed into law by the President.
We came mighty close last January when all 50 Senate Democrats voted to advance the Freedom to Vote: John R. Lewis Voting Rights Act. Regrettably, its passage ultimately was blocked by Manchin and Sinema, who joined the 50 Republicans to oppose a modest filibuster rule change that would have allowed for an up or down majority vote and would have applied solely to this one bill.
Seeing that the legislation already has passed in the House, we’re waiting on the Senate to act, which appears highly unlikely.
I’m convince JM is a Republican who ran as a Democrat so that no matter which party won WV would get a Republican.
Patricia, What I hear from West Virginians is that Manchin is the only Democrat who could win a statewide election. Additionally, as the state turns more red and increasing numbers of the state’s Democrats are disturbed by his obstruction regarding issues they care about, I’ve been told that Manchin likely could lose his seat in 24 to a Republican.
His Dem opponent will get my last dollar in donations.
Coal and timber still rule and rot.
MaryPat, My understanding is that West Virginians prioritize jobs, healthcare, childcare, housing, and tax reform (all part of Budget Reconciliation —BBB that Manchin opposed ) as their most vital needs. It further is of note that workers associated with the United Coal Miners Union are itching for training that would allow them to make the transition from fossil fuel to clean energy jobs.
Thank you. I don't mind at all. John R. Lewis did so much for this country. What a waste to have his work end up shredded by partisan politics. Remember how Republicans introduced legislation to get rid of the ACA, over and over and over? Well, we need to do something similar about voting rights, over and over and over again, very publicly. And we need to report to constituents in Manchin's and Sinema's states what these 2 elected politicians are doing to our country and who is funding their campaigns. Also, McConnell has way too much power in Congress.
Also need to report over and over again, specifically, the benefits for them that Manchin and Sinema are blocking.
Judith, Though your comment is not addressed to me, I write because I fully agree that obstruction, particularly from Manchin and Sinema, has been especially damaging both to the Biden agenda (BBB) and also to their respective constituents. For example, West Virginians have prioritized jobs, healthcare, childcare, housing, and tax reform as vital to their well-being. Moreover, the state’s workers represented by the United Coal Miners Union are itching for the training to help them make the transition from the fossil fuel industry to clean energy jobs. In Arizona, the prominent issues entail calls for expanding healthcare, while also holding Sinema accountable for her unseemly corporate ties, especially to Big Pharma.
Circling back to your comment, nationwide, the country clearly needs tough, strong leadership to educate people about what they’re losing every time Biden’s agenda is stalled.
Although my comment was in response to Mona's, I have no problem with you or anyone else responding to my own comment.
Mona, This past January, after the federal voter protection legislation failed to pass, scores of us expressed our deep disappointment that the President had not called out Manchin’s and Sinema’s mere support for voting rights as hollow and performative, absent their resolve to do their part to figure out how the filibuster could be modified to pass the legislation under regular order, even if it meant taking a long time (Dems had proposed 100 hours for each party) to get an up or down majority vote.
I imagine currently, amid the backdrop of the 1/6 Select Committee hearings, not to mention the unilateral passage, in state after state, of bills that restricts voting and nullifies votes, were Democratic leadership, with the federal voter protection safeguards in hand, to go to West Virginia, and also to the red parts of Mississippi and Alabama and to other states and say, “This is what we have tried to deliver and these folks have voted against it, I believe they would be far from alone in concluding that January 6th could well be mere practice for the next time unless we engage now in the necessary actions to ensure eligible votes in every state are cast and counted correctly, without interference, nor diluted through partisan gerrymandering.
I
And drop gerrymandering immediately as well.
@Pensa_VT, The Freedom to Vote: John R. Lewis Voting Rights Act I discuss as part of this thread virtually ends gerrymandering.
Ohio has a law against gerrymandering and gop has manage to manipulate it by digging their heels in and not coming up with a decent map.
Michigan's law works!
I checked. CA has dropped gerrymandering! It stopped in 8 states so far. Long way to go.
In California and, I expect in the other 7 states, the gerrymandering has been more or less stopped due to successful citizen initiatives to remove redistricting from elected officials and have "non-partisan" commissions do the job. However, in California (where I am), there still has been an effort to get partisan members on the commission in order to play gerrymandering games.
Absolutely! No matter who is doing it. Gerrymandering must end. If officials involved cannot provide a map, one will be drawn for them.
Well, after SCROTUS dismantled the Voting Rights Act by saying "no longer a problem" we lost the law we had...
(I like the snark description of the "highest" court.)
Joe M would have to become human
Not in our lifetime.
Not happening
trump pitiful soul captured by deception's lie will soon inhabit a community that only knows living by the lie: a well deserved end of life consequence...good riddance, Eh!?
🤞
Oh I hope so!
Michael, I agree with your first two observations but as far as your "brighter note" is concerned, not so sure. As much as I'd love, love, love to see trump behind bars, for the sake of the country, I wish he'd run away with his tail tucked between his knees to Russia or anywhere. Even if it's proven to the white supremacy groups that the big lie is just that, it was an opportunity to group and come out in the open. If trump is put in prison, there will be a civil war that we don't want to happen.
I’m not persuaded there would be a civil war if Dumpster were put in prison. I think all but a tiny fraction of the MAGA crowd would prefer to yell at the TV from their comfy recliners.
But there are those like the man who posted that he killed his beloved dog to see if he could kill somebody he didn’t know. That the ugliest man alive caused such insanity is hard to fathom.
Wow, I missed that story. So deeply disturbing. One wonders whether he is still a dedicated MAGA supporter, prepared to go to horrific extremes for "the cause" or whether he has had second thoughts. That story is almost Biblical, in a very twisted way. As if Dumpster were a very perverted version of g*d, that man were Abraham, and he actually killed his beloved son (dog) because he thought his g*d demanded it as proof of his devotion.
Agree. If the Clotheless Emperor is called out, his exposed supporters will run for the trees.
I agree!
There won't be a civil war if tRump is imprisoned because the MAGAtes will have a new devil to worship, and Rupert is offering him up on Fox now, Desatan.
Hmm. Will T___p still be addressed as Mr. President when he’s behind bars?
I never called him that before and never will. Jon, I think he will be called Prisoner No. 67456.
Prison is too good for them.
Yikes!
Most of the donors won't even ask for their money back, they'll convince themselves it was well used.
But some of them will find the scales falling from their eyes and realize that T___p is not only a crook, but a crook who is after their money--not someone else's. They will cease to support him.
We don't need to get all of his supporters to drop him, just enough to make him less of a danger or no longer a danger.
Every step in the right direction, no matter how small, is progress. I'd like to see him be no further danger at all.