“Do not obey in advance”. This is Tim Synder’s #1 warning in his book, “On Tyranny”.
“Most of the power of authoritarianism is freely given. In times like these, individuals think ahead about what a more repressive Governent will want, and then offer themselves without being asked. A citizen who adopts in this way is teaching power what …
“Do not obey in advance”. This is Tim Synder’s #1 warning in his book, “On Tyranny”.
“Most of the power of authoritarianism is freely given. In times like these, individuals think ahead about what a more repressive Governent will want, and then offer themselves without being asked. A citizen who adopts in this way is teaching power what it can do.”
By not vaccinating, followers are demonstrating the above. They are willing to sacrifice their health, their children’s health, and possibly their lives for a political ideology.
Do we need more proof than that to demonstrate the radicalization of 1/2 our populace? What else are they willing to do for their group identity and dear leader? Surely this is pure madness.
Thanks for pointing out Snyder's warnings. Everyone should heed them. But I don't believe half the population has been radicalized. Republicans and independents who lean Republican number 40%, the lowest since Obama was elected to his second term. Those numbers don't by any means lessen the dire threat we face, especially in light of voter suppression and laws giving legislatures the power to overturn election results.
You may be surprised to learn that the Gallup poll taken the end of January, 2021, on the question "In politics, as of today, do you consider yourself a Republican, a Democrat or an independent?" the response was 25% Republican, 50% Independent, and 25% Democrat (100%). 50% Independent!! The latest poll in early June 2021 has it at 24% R, 44% I, 30% D (98%). That seems to show that Independents are seeing the Biden administration as an American President rather than a Democrat President. So when they say 41% of Republicans won't take the vaccine, that is just 10% of the voters.
Many Independents lean Democratic or lean Republican with some proportion of without partisan preferences. I checked with Pew Research and have not found any data about this for the past year.
Fern, you're right. In NC, independents (which are called "Unaffiliated" in NC) are the fastest growing voter registration. Dems were so excited to see the R numbers fall and the I's rise. Until we realized that most of those new I's were still voting R!!
I've wondered if registering as an Independent has more to do with the libertarianism that has swept the country?
I don't recommend long lectures. A casual, friendly conversation during which a matter of interest may fit in or be slipped in is the way I approach it. Comfort a sense of trust and listening are important factors, so is going slowly and avoiding rancor. There is often a next time.
Cannot answer that question. You might dig around for articles about libertarianism as well as about Independents. Check with Axios, Daily Beast, Politico, Vox, etc. as well as common outlets.
You'll see in the Gallup poll that as you get nearer to an election the Independents are forced to choose in many cases the lesser of two evils chosen for them in not very democratic processes (think super-delegates etc) between R and D. As an Independent I no longer feel represented by either party which have both taken more extreme left and right positions. I have no representation in this system. As John Adams said, "The worst evil to befall the Constitution would be the two-party system."
The voter suppression thing is overblown as a threat to democracy. Voting is easier than in most of our history. But the legislature override is not getting the attention it deserves. Unfortunately the Constitution could be interpreted by this Supreme Court as allowing elections to be treated as mere plebiscites.
I don't think voter suppression is overblown. But, correct -- the even bigger threat is the states allowing the legislature to override election results. This is extremely alarming.
Voting may be easier for some of us than at any point in our history. Women, for instance, find it easier to vote than 102 years ago when we had zero voting rights.
But it's not nearly easy enough for huge swaths of the population, for a wide array of reasons depending on who you are and where you live. And it's not nearly as easy as it should be.
It's not even that easy for your average middle aged working white Republican male in NH. Aside from Covid exceptions, in NH, in order to vote absentee you had to sign an affadavit stating one of three allowable conditions : On voting day, being absent from the voter’s city or town, a religious observance, disability or illness, and employment commitments (including caregiving) during the entire time the polls are open. My husband frequently ends up working out of town unexpectedly the entire day the polls are open. I might get called in to work at the hospital and miss the polling hours. So we have to plan way ahead, assume we might miss in person voting, complete an application, return it in person to our rural town clerk's office (which itself has wonky hours), to even get an absentee ballot.
When we can safely and securely transfer money in seconds, why can't we vote just as easily?
Just because voting is easier than ever, doesn't make it right, considering our history. But it is possible, with a lot of hard work, to work around voter restrictions. The legislature override is not good and I don't know if there is a work around for that. I suppose more post-election lawsuits which, while being valid this time around, would, to certain people, look like the Dems just doing what the GOP did after having denigrated it. Hopefully this issue will get more press. It seems to me it is a newer idea than the other stuff.
Hey, I hear air raid sirens blaring. But my point is that the numbers are on our side and growing. That's not a comfort right now under all the circumstances.
The virus doesn’t care, and it doesn’t know we exist. It has one goal, to replicate.It’s going to keep mutating. New strains will be the result of each outbreak. Outbreaks will cause more closures or more serious outbreaks. It takes 95% vax to stop measles. It’s going to take close to 85-90% vaccinations to stop this pandemic. HC workers are exhausted and many nurses have left the calling. It’s time to deploy more carrots and a few sticks to increase vaccination rates.
Ohio’s $5 million vaccination lottery prizes did not increase vaccination rates. I think it’s time to follow France’s lead and impose restrictions on what unvaccinated people can do. Want to go to a movie? Prove that you’re vaccinated.
I listened to TLP's "We're Speaking" last night. They interviewed Anne Applebaum. She talks about how Poland became authoritarian...not with tanks in the streets, but slowly, as the government took over the media, courts, etc. Very similar to what is happening now here. While this segment is long, scroll through to the interview itself which is about 20 minutes. Well worth the time and very scary. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DIwqRu7OI8
You and I and the most others on here already know this and are scared. The question about it is to decide what to do about it without sacrificing democracy.
I think people are missing a lot of the authoritarianism in progressivism. People losing their jobs for rather inconsequential comments and opinions. Chilling effect. Ugly stuff. Not good for democracy.
You wrote, "People losing their jobs for rather inconsequential comments and opinions." If you have time, could you expound on the connection between that statement and authoritarianism or progressivism. Also, I'm failing to understand how progressive ideas are any way authoritarian. As a progressive, I thought I was supporting equal rights and more inclusivity.
I don't think you directed this comment to me but as a progressive and as a fallible human any idea or group can become authoritarian. I think that is part of the problem with the left today. Trump shows himself to be horrible but that doesn't mean we can't go off the rails.
Please provide some examples of when that has happened related to progressivism. Not saying it's not possible for there to be an authoritarian bent within progessivism, but curious when you've seen it happen where a clear line can be drawn between the two.
Are you referring to what the right increasingly refers to as the danger of "cancel culture"? Because that's just accountability. We've been boycotting for years. I get to choose where I spend my dollars and what I give my attention to and am not obligated to support people or organizations that are clearly aligned with what I see as a philosophy that's dangerous to democracy.
“Do not obey in advance”. This is Tim Synder’s #1 warning in his book, “On Tyranny”.
“Most of the power of authoritarianism is freely given. In times like these, individuals think ahead about what a more repressive Governent will want, and then offer themselves without being asked. A citizen who adopts in this way is teaching power what it can do.”
By not vaccinating, followers are demonstrating the above. They are willing to sacrifice their health, their children’s health, and possibly their lives for a political ideology.
Do we need more proof than that to demonstrate the radicalization of 1/2 our populace? What else are they willing to do for their group identity and dear leader? Surely this is pure madness.
Thanks for pointing out Snyder's warnings. Everyone should heed them. But I don't believe half the population has been radicalized. Republicans and independents who lean Republican number 40%, the lowest since Obama was elected to his second term. Those numbers don't by any means lessen the dire threat we face, especially in light of voter suppression and laws giving legislatures the power to overturn election results.
You may be surprised to learn that the Gallup poll taken the end of January, 2021, on the question "In politics, as of today, do you consider yourself a Republican, a Democrat or an independent?" the response was 25% Republican, 50% Independent, and 25% Democrat (100%). 50% Independent!! The latest poll in early June 2021 has it at 24% R, 44% I, 30% D (98%). That seems to show that Independents are seeing the Biden administration as an American President rather than a Democrat President. So when they say 41% of Republicans won't take the vaccine, that is just 10% of the voters.
https://news.gallup.com/poll/15370/party-affiliation.aspx
Great news about Independents. This is the poll on which my comment was based: https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2021/04/07/gallup-survey-shows-largest-increase-democratic-party-affiliation-decade/7114860002/
Many Independents lean Democratic or lean Republican with some proportion of without partisan preferences. I checked with Pew Research and have not found any data about this for the past year.
Fern, you're right. In NC, independents (which are called "Unaffiliated" in NC) are the fastest growing voter registration. Dems were so excited to see the R numbers fall and the I's rise. Until we realized that most of those new I's were still voting R!!
I've wondered if registering as an Independent has more to do with the libertarianism that has swept the country?
I wonder if it can be explained to a degree by people who voted for Obama and then Trump?
I don't recommend long lectures. A casual, friendly conversation during which a matter of interest may fit in or be slipped in is the way I approach it. Comfort a sense of trust and listening are important factors, so is going slowly and avoiding rancor. There is often a next time.
Cannot answer that question. You might dig around for articles about libertarianism as well as about Independents. Check with Axios, Daily Beast, Politico, Vox, etc. as well as common outlets.
You'll see in the Gallup poll that as you get nearer to an election the Independents are forced to choose in many cases the lesser of two evils chosen for them in not very democratic processes (think super-delegates etc) between R and D. As an Independent I no longer feel represented by either party which have both taken more extreme left and right positions. I have no representation in this system. As John Adams said, "The worst evil to befall the Constitution would be the two-party system."
The voter suppression thing is overblown as a threat to democracy. Voting is easier than in most of our history. But the legislature override is not getting the attention it deserves. Unfortunately the Constitution could be interpreted by this Supreme Court as allowing elections to be treated as mere plebiscites.
I don't think voter suppression is overblown. But, correct -- the even bigger threat is the states allowing the legislature to override election results. This is extremely alarming.
Voting may be easier for some of us than at any point in our history. Women, for instance, find it easier to vote than 102 years ago when we had zero voting rights.
But it's not nearly easy enough for huge swaths of the population, for a wide array of reasons depending on who you are and where you live. And it's not nearly as easy as it should be.
It's not even that easy for your average middle aged working white Republican male in NH. Aside from Covid exceptions, in NH, in order to vote absentee you had to sign an affadavit stating one of three allowable conditions : On voting day, being absent from the voter’s city or town, a religious observance, disability or illness, and employment commitments (including caregiving) during the entire time the polls are open. My husband frequently ends up working out of town unexpectedly the entire day the polls are open. I might get called in to work at the hospital and miss the polling hours. So we have to plan way ahead, assume we might miss in person voting, complete an application, return it in person to our rural town clerk's office (which itself has wonky hours), to even get an absentee ballot.
When we can safely and securely transfer money in seconds, why can't we vote just as easily?
Just because voting is easier than ever, doesn't make it right, considering our history. But it is possible, with a lot of hard work, to work around voter restrictions. The legislature override is not good and I don't know if there is a work around for that. I suppose more post-election lawsuits which, while being valid this time around, would, to certain people, look like the Dems just doing what the GOP did after having denigrated it. Hopefully this issue will get more press. It seems to me it is a newer idea than the other stuff.
Okay, 40%. But more like 50% Surrendering their health, risking it all going un vaxed. Isn’t that a sign?
Hey, I hear air raid sirens blaring. But my point is that the numbers are on our side and growing. That's not a comfort right now under all the circumstances.
The virus doesn’t care, and it doesn’t know we exist. It has one goal, to replicate.It’s going to keep mutating. New strains will be the result of each outbreak. Outbreaks will cause more closures or more serious outbreaks. It takes 95% vax to stop measles. It’s going to take close to 85-90% vaccinations to stop this pandemic. HC workers are exhausted and many nurses have left the calling. It’s time to deploy more carrots and a few sticks to increase vaccination rates.
Michigan has incentives for vaccines! $500,000! Scholarships!
https://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2021/07/01/michigan-covid-19-vaccine-lottery-sweepstakes-gretchen-whitmer/7821384002/
Ohio’s $5 million vaccination lottery prizes did not increase vaccination rates. I think it’s time to follow France’s lead and impose restrictions on what unvaccinated people can do. Want to go to a movie? Prove that you’re vaccinated.
Not yet. We're working on it!
Never underestimate the Democrats’ ability to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Crime rates and crazy identity politics will do it every time.
I listened to TLP's "We're Speaking" last night. They interviewed Anne Applebaum. She talks about how Poland became authoritarian...not with tanks in the streets, but slowly, as the government took over the media, courts, etc. Very similar to what is happening now here. While this segment is long, scroll through to the interview itself which is about 20 minutes. Well worth the time and very scary. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DIwqRu7OI8
Hey, Annette. Very good interview with Anne Applebaum. Thank you!
You and I and the most others on here already know this and are scared. The question about it is to decide what to do about it without sacrificing democracy.
Those on the right do not read books. TV and the internet are their media choices, where it is easier find lies to support their illusions.
I think people are missing a lot of the authoritarianism in progressivism. People losing their jobs for rather inconsequential comments and opinions. Chilling effect. Ugly stuff. Not good for democracy.
You wrote, "People losing their jobs for rather inconsequential comments and opinions." If you have time, could you expound on the connection between that statement and authoritarianism or progressivism. Also, I'm failing to understand how progressive ideas are any way authoritarian. As a progressive, I thought I was supporting equal rights and more inclusivity.
I don't think you directed this comment to me but as a progressive and as a fallible human any idea or group can become authoritarian. I think that is part of the problem with the left today. Trump shows himself to be horrible but that doesn't mean we can't go off the rails.
Please provide some examples of when that has happened related to progressivism. Not saying it's not possible for there to be an authoritarian bent within progessivism, but curious when you've seen it happen where a clear line can be drawn between the two.
Are you referring to what the right increasingly refers to as the danger of "cancel culture"? Because that's just accountability. We've been boycotting for years. I get to choose where I spend my dollars and what I give my attention to and am not obligated to support people or organizations that are clearly aligned with what I see as a philosophy that's dangerous to democracy.
As a woman you might want to pay more attention.
As a man you may want to learn to make constructive comments.
Inconsequential? Surely you jest...
Republicans as they are now are the biggest threat to democracy.
The biggest threat from the illiberal left is they energize and give ammunition to Republicans.
But you're right it is ugly stuff, almost as ugly as trumpkins.
Is lying good for democracy?