Heather: I’ve brought this up before as a “chat on politics “ question to you before the attempted coup on the Capitol. It probably came across as an extreme notion then, but in light of what’s come to pass— which most never thought would happen in the USA— I think it’s worth serious consideration now.
The unfolding of events in DC is un…
Heather: I’ve brought this up before as a “chat on politics “ question to you before the attempted coup on the Capitol. It probably came across as an extreme notion then, but in light of what’s come to pass— which most never thought would happen in the USA— I think it’s worth serious consideration now.
The unfolding of events in DC is unpredictable yet worrisome. As a safety net emergency measure for extraordinary times, I think it would be prudent for Biden/Harris to take the oath of office now that they are president elect and VP elect. The oath can be taken any time in that it is not written in the Constitution that it be done January 20 at noon when Trump’s presidency and power ends and Biden/Harris’ begins. There is precedent for this though not for these unprecedented circumstances. It is taken privately with a Bible, with a judge administering it plus a witness.
Nobody can predict what will be happening at noon January 20 when power shifts and the transition is complete except for the oath-taking. If chaos reigns, Biden/Harris will already have taken the oath and are in power. He can do whatever is necessary as President. The inauguration ceremony might have to be postponed. Who knows. Whenever it takes place, Biden/Harris can publicly take the oath of office again. The early taking of the oath is strictly a safety net for he is still powerless till noon January 20. No?
I don't know, Monet...this comment was meant to test the waters as to the notion's zaniness or merit. So far, the response has been mostly positive. I know who to ask as to who to contact. Thanks for sharing your reaction.
Thanks, Carla. I'm going to find out from a Dem official who would know who I should direct it to in DC. It's probably already been suggested and considered, but you never know.
This happened in TN in the late 70s. The governor-elect, Lamar Alexander, was sworn in early bc the outgoing governor, Ray Blanton, was, among other crimes, selling pardons from the governor’s mansion.
I enjoy the concept but I think it would be empty symbolism until Trump’s power ceases.
We already can anticipate a more legal form of Governance from the President Elect Biden but his predecessor can wrack havoc until noon January 20, 2021 and I think we should focus on curbing that wreckage.
I agree that it's an interesting concept, Hap. Your response suggests this approach has shades of being less than legal. I truly don't intend it to be. Some constitutional expert has determined that it's legal for there are several precedents on record for early oath-taking as private (this doesn't mean secret) and later public, so indications are it's above board. I don't see symbolism entering the picture till noon, January 20, cuz Bidenhas no power till Trump relinquishes it. Noon, January 20, and not one fraction of a second later. No one can predict what will be happening then. Unforeseeable. Whatever the situation might be--worst case scenario, possibly chaotic--having a sworn-in president would be covered. Then it's just the ticking of the clock past noon that changes everything. No?
As to havoc and wreckage, I'm crossing my fingers that impeachment will neutralize Trump. That's the focus.Then there's January 17 to consider....
Good idea, Martha. Although circumstances are vastly different, your suggestion brought to my mind the iconic image of LyndonJohnson being sworn in as president on the airplane with Jackie Kennedy, in her blood-soaked pink suit, and others surrounding him.
I wondered if they could take the oath privately earlier in the day on the 20th and then have a "redo" for the public once it's safer for all....i.e the thugs have been reined in and the pandemic is less a threat.
Two Presidents at the same time, even for just a week or so? Not a good idea. The Roman Catholic Church had such an experience with multiple Popes toward the end of the Fourteenth centry and it didn't work very well.
I don't think so, Jacob. Biden would be powerless till noon. Conflict not possible. It's just something that occurred to me that might have merit in uncertain times.
Those popes vs antipope. Fighting over the spiritual kingdom of heaven.Power plays.
Not a bad idea. It has been done before in TN but that state's Constitution didn't mandate a specific day at that time. Lamar Alexander had been elected but the previous governor had been selling Clemencies for cash and the state gov't wanted to stop that and swore him in early. The U.S. Constitution does by Amendment 20: "AMENDMENT XX
Passed by Congress March 2, 1932. Ratified January 23, 1933. Section 1.
The terms of the President and the Vice President shall end at noon on the 20th day of January, and the terms of Senators and Representatives at noon on the 3d day of January, of the years in which such terms would have ended if this article had not been ratified; and the terms of their successors shall then begin. "
Note: Article I, section 4, of the Constitution was modified by section 2 of this amendment. In addition, a portion of the 12th amendment was superseded by section 3.
Section 1.
The terms of the President and the Vice President shall end at noon on the 20th day of January, and the terms of Senators and Representatives at noon on the 3d day of January, of the years in which such terms would have ended if this article had not been ratified; and the terms of their successors shall then begin.
Heather: I’ve brought this up before as a “chat on politics “ question to you before the attempted coup on the Capitol. It probably came across as an extreme notion then, but in light of what’s come to pass— which most never thought would happen in the USA— I think it’s worth serious consideration now.
The unfolding of events in DC is unpredictable yet worrisome. As a safety net emergency measure for extraordinary times, I think it would be prudent for Biden/Harris to take the oath of office now that they are president elect and VP elect. The oath can be taken any time in that it is not written in the Constitution that it be done January 20 at noon when Trump’s presidency and power ends and Biden/Harris’ begins. There is precedent for this though not for these unprecedented circumstances. It is taken privately with a Bible, with a judge administering it plus a witness.
Nobody can predict what will be happening at noon January 20 when power shifts and the transition is complete except for the oath-taking. If chaos reigns, Biden/Harris will already have taken the oath and are in power. He can do whatever is necessary as President. The inauguration ceremony might have to be postponed. Who knows. Whenever it takes place, Biden/Harris can publicly take the oath of office again. The early taking of the oath is strictly a safety net for he is still powerless till noon January 20. No?
Super interesting possibility... wonder if it’s being considered?
I don't know, Monet...this comment was meant to test the waters as to the notion's zaniness or merit. So far, the response has been mostly positive. I know who to ask as to who to contact. Thanks for sharing your reaction.
Yes to this, Martha!!! I fear "Inauguration" as usual will be a terrible disaster. Yes, to all you have stated.
Thanks, Carla. I'm going to find out from a Dem official who would know who I should direct it to in DC. It's probably already been suggested and considered, but you never know.
I am also worried about the usual inauguration celebration. I'd be all for just having it in somebody's office, televised. No crowd!!
I'm told security is pressuring Biden for inside and televised.
That is good to hear. I hope he heeds it. Seriously. This is no time to underestimate possibilities.
This happened in TN in the late 70s. The governor-elect, Lamar Alexander, was sworn in early bc the outgoing governor, Ray Blanton, was, among other crimes, selling pardons from the governor’s mansion.
I enjoy the concept but I think it would be empty symbolism until Trump’s power ceases.
We already can anticipate a more legal form of Governance from the President Elect Biden but his predecessor can wrack havoc until noon January 20, 2021 and I think we should focus on curbing that wreckage.
I agree that it's an interesting concept, Hap. Your response suggests this approach has shades of being less than legal. I truly don't intend it to be. Some constitutional expert has determined that it's legal for there are several precedents on record for early oath-taking as private (this doesn't mean secret) and later public, so indications are it's above board. I don't see symbolism entering the picture till noon, January 20, cuz Bidenhas no power till Trump relinquishes it. Noon, January 20, and not one fraction of a second later. No one can predict what will be happening then. Unforeseeable. Whatever the situation might be--worst case scenario, possibly chaotic--having a sworn-in president would be covered. Then it's just the ticking of the clock past noon that changes everything. No?
As to havoc and wreckage, I'm crossing my fingers that impeachment will neutralize Trump. That's the focus.Then there's January 17 to consider....
Good idea, Martha. Although circumstances are vastly different, your suggestion brought to my mind the iconic image of LyndonJohnson being sworn in as president on the airplane with Jackie Kennedy, in her blood-soaked pink suit, and others surrounding him.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyndon_B._Johnson#/media/File:Lyndon_B._Johnson_taking_the_oath_of_office,_November_1963.jpg
I wondered if they could take the oath privately earlier in the day on the 20th and then have a "redo" for the public once it's safer for all....i.e the thugs have been reined in and the pandemic is less a threat.
EVEM A PRIVATE 7 A.M. INAUGURATION WOULD MAKE SENSE.
Two Presidents at the same time, even for just a week or so? Not a good idea. The Roman Catholic Church had such an experience with multiple Popes toward the end of the Fourteenth centry and it didn't work very well.
As I recall the whole 14th century didn't work real well for Catholicism.
I don't think so, Jacob. Biden would be powerless till noon. Conflict not possible. It's just something that occurred to me that might have merit in uncertain times.
Those popes vs antipope. Fighting over the spiritual kingdom of heaven.Power plays.
Not a bad idea. It has been done before in TN but that state's Constitution didn't mandate a specific day at that time. Lamar Alexander had been elected but the previous governor had been selling Clemencies for cash and the state gov't wanted to stop that and swore him in early. The U.S. Constitution does by Amendment 20: "AMENDMENT XX
Passed by Congress March 2, 1932. Ratified January 23, 1933. Section 1.
The terms of the President and the Vice President shall end at noon on the 20th day of January, and the terms of Senators and Representatives at noon on the 3d day of January, of the years in which such terms would have ended if this article had not been ratified; and the terms of their successors shall then begin. "
Note: Article I, section 4, of the Constitution was modified by section 2 of this amendment. In addition, a portion of the 12th amendment was superseded by section 3.
Section 1.
The terms of the President and the Vice President shall end at noon on the 20th day of January, and the terms of Senators and Representatives at noon on the 3d day of January, of the years in which such terms would have ended if this article had not been ratified; and the terms of their successors shall then begin.