Not to take the focus away from the matter at hand, but one thing that came to mind as I saw video and images of Congressional members hiding on the floor of their chamber: As they lay there uncertain and afraid of potential violence, did any of them think about the millions of schoolchildren who have regularly practiced this posture, and the thousands who have done it for real?
Not to take the focus away from the matter at hand, but one thing that came to mind as I saw video and images of Congressional members hiding on the floor of their chamber: As they lay there uncertain and afraid of potential violence, did any of them think about the millions of schoolchildren who have regularly practiced this posture, and the thousands who have done it for real?
It also brought to my mind the vision of the many Black men pinned to the ground by the police for relatively minor offenses, and wondering whether they'd live to see their families.
ThatтАЩs exactly what I kept saying to the TV, and still am, when talking about these people hiding, covering their heads, hearing terrorists in the hallways as they whispered in their offices.
Welcome to every public school in America when we do emergency drills at least once a month. And are taught how to use specially provided baseball bats to take down gun toting perps. Welcome to that feeling. To that PTSD. To that fear.
Exactly how children and teachers feel each time they have to take cover under a desk, or behind cupboards never knowing if it is an actual attack. Well practiced, but terrifying. I watched this unfold in absolute horror and sympathy. Trump must be held accountable for this atrocity!
I had discussed exactly this point with my husband as it was playing out. And will those pro-gun members of congress have a change of heart? Of course they wonтАЩt.
Crazy uh? For any Manufacturer or even industry, that is TON of unit sales. Steel and milling is relatively cheap, so profit margins are high. What states does steal come from? It would be a wise business decision to fund the party that is willing to protect your profits! But these are not Hunting rifles, shotguns, or home protection revolvers. These are mostly 40 million new precision made weapons of war. Semi Auto, high capacity. I remember when JH JR shot Reagan and Brady. I have the image of Brady seared into my memory, face down on the concrete in a pool of his own blood. And now, what is going to happen?
If we are not extremely careful, or maybe it is too late? We could see 10,000 deranged arseholes, seething with anger and hatred in the hearts descend into DC with long guns for the Inauguration. How will we have a "normal" ...oops sorry, "post insurgency pandemic Inauguration"?
And where is the Inauguration held? On those same Capital steps. And what is happening now? A purge of incompetence or ill compliance in the DC and Capital police. (who are the traitors in the police we do not know about?) Who are the outer and inner rings of protection. How can they be trusted. I don't see how 2,500 secret service agents could protect in that scenario. The enemy just learned what they are capable of. They will adjust their strategy and tactics. Shamefully, the Inaugural is going to look like a police state further burnishing "deep state final fantasy" into the hearts of these seditious pricks. Agent Orange has thrown a monkey wrench into the transition ceremony by the potential threat of more violence. Even if their isn't any violence, we loose the war of appearances with a heavy military presence.
That is why you do it, immediately, without notice and film it. I like your idea on The Capital Steps. Let's take back our Capital!!
Or a Pandemic inauguration inside the Rotunda Film it live for all of us to celebrate at home. Have a No Traveler Zone pre, during and post, in DC. I still have bottle of Prosecco that I can dust off...I have been waiting to toast with it the moment DJT is out of office.
I mentioned this very thing on the letter from yesterday (while this one hadn't appeared yet). I would hope that the next time this issue (control of deadly weapons) comes up, as it surely will, lawmakers will not forget how they felt when this was happening Wednesday. Imagine a small child, with much less understanding of the world, being subjected to something like this. I mentioned as well how lawmakers and staff in the Capitol, and us out here, have almost gone through varying degrees of PTSD since this happened Again, imagine how children feel when thrust into scary situations not of their own making. I hope we don't soon forget this whole incident.
I was thinking a similar thought about most of them having no idea what its is to be terrorized in war, or mass shooting, or even just gun violence in the many major cities. But everyone should be able to but a gun without any restrictions or background check etc.
Yes. There are also a variety of points on each floor of all the House and Senate office buildings containing protective equipment. This has been the case since 9/11.
Like life vests under your seat on a plane. If that was indeed the case, then someone must have anticipated an attack on the Capitol at some point. Wonder what they think about yesterday.
I wonder if they've been there since, say, 9/11 or only recently, in light of T╤ПтШнmp's incendiary tweets that "something wild" would happen on January 6th. If there was that fear, then there should have been massive protection, and there was not, which was a monumental failure.
A chemical attack, or bio weapon, is a tactic to first disorientate, disorganize, break morale in order to overtake. I see the importance of those gas masks under their desks in order to maintain one's senses for evacuation. The mobers had surplus mace canisters to do just that and break the guards at the choke points. IT is how they broke through interior defenses.
This was so bad. They wanted Pence and Pelosi in handcuffs, a hostage crisis, with thousands blocking all entry and mass supports amassed around the exterior. The more I study it, this was the their plan. You do not need weapons, when you have a human shields, and layers of human shields. The taking of the building was not for occupation, it was for hostage taking, then to delay until..... for one person to take control, resolve the crisis as a hero, and then crown himself king.
DT's Rally outside the WH was incitement. Then Rudy gave explicit instructions, "Trial by Combat". But they all had intelligence about the mobs plot to just that, the handcuffs show it was premediated. Where did that hostage and trial by combat plot originate and with whom first? I dont think the plot was conceived by one of the mob idiots. I speculate it was planted in a chatroom like a seed. Then watered and nurtured like all the other nonsensical delusions these idiots believe. This is madness. This kinda of stuff starts wars.
My point was not to question why gas masks were there but for how long they were. If they were put there specifically in advance of the riot, then my point becomes why weren't the Capitol grounds and building cordoned off before the insurrection, not afterwards. Regardless, the rioters who aren't being identified and arrested (so far, apparently, for charges less serious than their offenses) are still "out there" and scheming more anti-democracy chaos not just in D.C. but around the county, where they stormed capitol buildings in several states on the 6th. What are they planning for the 17th? The 20th? For a later time?
Oh! I see said the blindman( me!) Thank you Mimi and Dang good point.
I was thinking they have been their since 911 or something? Do you mean you think the Republicans put them in their just recently in case they needed them, knowing the mob had mace to use on the few guards in advance? Holy shit, if that is true then the Mob are pawns and 1/2 our elected officials are complicit in the whole damn plot.
I was thinking it was just DT, his closest cronies and most radicalized supporters.
We don't yet know the extent of the complicity, Ted. I don't know if the gas masks have been under the seats since 9/11 or whether the capitol protectors put them there in advance, having read or heard on TV what we all did about the big "wild" event that would be happening on the 6th. But if that was the case, why wasn't at least the building protected from invasion? It didn't occur to me that the R's put gas masks under the seats to protect themselves, since all the legislators seemed to have them. I doubt, or certainly hope, that half of the R legislators are not complicit. But I think the assault was helped along by insiders, whether some legislators or some Capitol police and that reinforcements were delayed because of the DoJ's failure to act promptly when asked. Facebook, Twitter and Instagram (?) also had a hand in not muzzling these calls to action months ago.
Agree. Insiders for sure played a part....Angry police because of BLM...old grievances are always exploited by demagogues to further their aims. DOD officials are claiming they were worried about, "Appearances" of too much security forces...bad optics..... really? Why?
News accounts of the FBI offering agents was refused by Capital Police leadership.
Knowingly or unknowingly there was a command failure to organize the defenses. Its most likely a mix of both. Recent changes DT made at DOD are critical. Barr leaving early from DOJ.
DT conspired to threaten the Legislative branch and his VP. This I am certain. I believe his end game was to offer to negotiate with the hostage takers, save the day as a hero, blame it all on Antifa, and declare himself king or just a savior to ride another day.
I know. We know. Do not doubt that DT and his circle is responsible for the riot and knew exactly what the supporters were plotting to do. Blood and conspiracy are on their hands.
Jan 6th "Stop the Steal Rally" DT, Rudy, DT Jr told supporters with precision to march with anger in the hearts, to enter the Capital and conduct a trial by combat of Pence and Pelosi. The Plan happens. But deniability is always part of the easy "con".
He denies his responsibility in any part of it. He says he was only joking. "Really people, you think I would say those things if I knew a riot and hostage taking was possible? I m not that stupid! I wouldn't incriminate myself! ...Why, I had know idea that was gonna happen"
And not wanting to admit they have been conned, the people take him at is word, again, and again, and again.
This people, is the "art of the deal". But let us call it what it is, Con Artistry. That might be unethical but legal to sell condos, but a family in DC is burying their dead son, Capital Police officer, Brian Sicknick.
Usually what happens with events like this is the lawmakers stick to their previous views but make a fix for only themselves. That would mean the right will talk about needing to carry guns for defense, the left will ask for criminal justice reform, and both will increase security at only the Capitol building.
As a very recently retired middle school teacher, I absolutely thought about that. And sadly also thought, even if brought to their attention, after having been through a siege where people were armed and those in military/police tactical type gear actually had slip tie handcuffs (for what purpose one can only imagine), I have little faith that gun regulations that will make any real difference will see the light of day.
Whatever flaws in their planning and leadership, the Capitol police deserve standing applause and a bonus for successfully getting all the members of Congress and their staffers to safety before tactically retreating before the savage horde of mini-Trumps. If even one Senator, House member, or staffer had been caught by that guy with the handcuffs, we would still be riveted to our televisions, watching a hostage situation unfold in the Chambers of Congress.
Yes, they were unprepared for an utterly predictable assault by the Trump-incited mob. But their restraint was, to my mind, admirable. The only reason that woman was shot was because she tried to enter the Chamber before it could be cleared. Even while a Capitol policeman was being beaten to death by the Trump branch of the Republican Party, the rest of his fellow officers concentrated on saving lives, not killing rioters.
While this debacle is a grim example of a right-wing mob being treated more gently than a left one, the answer is to have fewer blood-baths, not more.
I was not at all referring to the Capitol Police in my post. I agree they did their job in protecting our Congressional members, staff, and reporters. I was referring to those that infiltrated our nation's capitol.
So sorry, I didn't mean to imply that you were referring to anything else. I was really responding to your observation that some of the insurrectionists clearly had more in mind than posing at the dais or pissing in the hallways. Had the outnumbered defenders lost their focus, the insurrection may still be underway.
No worries! Agree that had the Capitol Police, who were doing their job, had not been there, there would have been a very different ending. The point was that after what members of Congress experienced will unfortunately not impact gun regulations in any meaningful manner forcing our kids to continue to be subject to practice active shooter drills. It is all just so wrong that anyone should have to fear being shot at the hands of people hell bent on destruction.
The heartbreaking massacre at Sandy Hook, as well as every other mass shooting, didn't move the gun control meter one iota. The bill that was brought to Congress by the parents in Newtown and Obama never passed. On Wednesday, none of the congressional people were killed or injured so unfortunately, this horrible episode will have zero impact regarding gun control. As someone else said, Congress may do something to further protect themselves (and federal property) but that is it.
Not to take the focus away from the matter at hand, but one thing that came to mind as I saw video and images of Congressional members hiding on the floor of their chamber: As they lay there uncertain and afraid of potential violence, did any of them think about the millions of schoolchildren who have regularly practiced this posture, and the thousands who have done it for real?
It also brought to my mind the vision of the many Black men pinned to the ground by the police for relatively minor offenses, and wondering whether they'd live to see their families.
Excellent point, Nancy!
ThatтАЩs exactly what I kept saying to the TV, and still am, when talking about these people hiding, covering their heads, hearing terrorists in the hallways as they whispered in their offices.
Welcome to every public school in America when we do emergency drills at least once a month. And are taught how to use specially provided baseball bats to take down gun toting perps. Welcome to that feeling. To that PTSD. To that fear.
And welcome to the life of every black or brown person. ЁЯдм
Content warning: disturbing visuals
https://www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/pictures-from-capitol-vs-2020
That is very powerful...and sickening. Trump's terrorists compared to BLM peaceful protest. Ugh...
My students and I have been in this position more than once. That was the only satisfaction I experienced on Wednesday.
Me too!
Exactly how children and teachers feel each time they have to take cover under a desk, or behind cupboards never knowing if it is an actual attack. Well practiced, but terrifying. I watched this unfold in absolute horror and sympathy. Trump must be held accountable for this atrocity!
I had discussed exactly this point with my husband as it was playing out. And will those pro-gun members of congress have a change of heart? Of course they wonтАЩt.
You're right, Ginger. They'll probably say, "If only I could have had my gun, I could have protected the chamber."
Uh-huh.
How come the тАЬgood guy with a gunтАЭ is never there when you need him?
40 Million. That is how many new gun sales there were in 2020 Mother Jones reports from FBI data.
https://www.motherjones.com/crime-justice/2021/01/gun-sales-surged-in-2020-so-did-gun-violence/#:~:text=Nearly%2040%20million%20firearms%20were,Background%20Check%20System%20in%202000.
Get 'em while they're hot!
Crazy uh? For any Manufacturer or even industry, that is TON of unit sales. Steel and milling is relatively cheap, so profit margins are high. What states does steal come from? It would be a wise business decision to fund the party that is willing to protect your profits! But these are not Hunting rifles, shotguns, or home protection revolvers. These are mostly 40 million new precision made weapons of war. Semi Auto, high capacity. I remember when JH JR shot Reagan and Brady. I have the image of Brady seared into my memory, face down on the concrete in a pool of his own blood. And now, what is going to happen?
If we are not extremely careful, or maybe it is too late? We could see 10,000 deranged arseholes, seething with anger and hatred in the hearts descend into DC with long guns for the Inauguration. How will we have a "normal" ...oops sorry, "post insurgency pandemic Inauguration"?
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/10/30/opinion/what-happens-on-nov-4.html
Surprise them. Have the Inauguration tomorrow and get rid of the terrorists in our White House.
Hey Penelope, I like your idea. Taking the initiative almost always works.
And where is the Inauguration held? On those same Capital steps. And what is happening now? A purge of incompetence or ill compliance in the DC and Capital police. (who are the traitors in the police we do not know about?) Who are the outer and inner rings of protection. How can they be trusted. I don't see how 2,500 secret service agents could protect in that scenario. The enemy just learned what they are capable of. They will adjust their strategy and tactics. Shamefully, the Inaugural is going to look like a police state further burnishing "deep state final fantasy" into the hearts of these seditious pricks. Agent Orange has thrown a monkey wrench into the transition ceremony by the potential threat of more violence. Even if their isn't any violence, we loose the war of appearances with a heavy military presence.
That is why you do it, immediately, without notice and film it. I like your idea on The Capital Steps. Let's take back our Capital!!
Or a Pandemic inauguration inside the Rotunda Film it live for all of us to celebrate at home. Have a No Traveler Zone pre, during and post, in DC. I still have bottle of Prosecco that I can dust off...I have been waiting to toast with it the moment DJT is out of office.
Roberts should swear Biden in now. F it. Get er done. Forge the hoopla. Ceremony later.
I mentioned this very thing on the letter from yesterday (while this one hadn't appeared yet). I would hope that the next time this issue (control of deadly weapons) comes up, as it surely will, lawmakers will not forget how they felt when this was happening Wednesday. Imagine a small child, with much less understanding of the world, being subjected to something like this. I mentioned as well how lawmakers and staff in the Capitol, and us out here, have almost gone through varying degrees of PTSD since this happened Again, imagine how children feel when thrust into scary situations not of their own making. I hope we don't soon forget this whole incident.
Bruce, good points, I agree. Do we even have to ask kids why they donтАЩt trust us, when we fail to protect them? 40 million more reasons in 2020.
I was thinking a similar thought about most of them having no idea what its is to be terrorized in war, or mass shooting, or even just gun violence in the many major cities. But everyone should be able to but a gun without any restrictions or background check etc.
That was exactly my thought.
I was wondering whether gas masks are always under their seats.
Yes. There are also a variety of points on each floor of all the House and Senate office buildings containing protective equipment. This has been the case since 9/11.
Interesting question indeed.
Like life vests under your seat on a plane. If that was indeed the case, then someone must have anticipated an attack on the Capitol at some point. Wonder what they think about yesterday.
I wonder if they've been there since, say, 9/11 or only recently, in light of T╤ПтШнmp's incendiary tweets that "something wild" would happen on January 6th. If there was that fear, then there should have been massive protection, and there was not, which was a monumental failure.
A chemical attack, or bio weapon, is a tactic to first disorientate, disorganize, break morale in order to overtake. I see the importance of those gas masks under their desks in order to maintain one's senses for evacuation. The mobers had surplus mace canisters to do just that and break the guards at the choke points. IT is how they broke through interior defenses.
This was so bad. They wanted Pence and Pelosi in handcuffs, a hostage crisis, with thousands blocking all entry and mass supports amassed around the exterior. The more I study it, this was the their plan. You do not need weapons, when you have a human shields, and layers of human shields. The taking of the building was not for occupation, it was for hostage taking, then to delay until..... for one person to take control, resolve the crisis as a hero, and then crown himself king.
https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/09/us/officer-crushed-capitol-riot-video/index.html
I think you give them too much credit. TheyтАЩre just apes looking for something to create chaos around.
No. The mob yes/sort of. They are useful idiots to a bigger plot against democracy.
DT's Rally outside the WH was incitement. Then Rudy gave explicit instructions, "Trial by Combat". But they all had intelligence about the mobs plot to just that, the handcuffs show it was premediated. Where did that hostage and trial by combat plot originate and with whom first? I dont think the plot was conceived by one of the mob idiots. I speculate it was planted in a chatroom like a seed. Then watered and nurtured like all the other nonsensical delusions these idiots believe. This is madness. This kinda of stuff starts wars.
My point was not to question why gas masks were there but for how long they were. If they were put there specifically in advance of the riot, then my point becomes why weren't the Capitol grounds and building cordoned off before the insurrection, not afterwards. Regardless, the rioters who aren't being identified and arrested (so far, apparently, for charges less serious than their offenses) are still "out there" and scheming more anti-democracy chaos not just in D.C. but around the county, where they stormed capitol buildings in several states on the 6th. What are they planning for the 17th? The 20th? For a later time?
Oh! I see said the blindman( me!) Thank you Mimi and Dang good point.
I was thinking they have been their since 911 or something? Do you mean you think the Republicans put them in their just recently in case they needed them, knowing the mob had mace to use on the few guards in advance? Holy shit, if that is true then the Mob are pawns and 1/2 our elected officials are complicit in the whole damn plot.
I was thinking it was just DT, his closest cronies and most radicalized supporters.
We don't yet know the extent of the complicity, Ted. I don't know if the gas masks have been under the seats since 9/11 or whether the capitol protectors put them there in advance, having read or heard on TV what we all did about the big "wild" event that would be happening on the 6th. But if that was the case, why wasn't at least the building protected from invasion? It didn't occur to me that the R's put gas masks under the seats to protect themselves, since all the legislators seemed to have them. I doubt, or certainly hope, that half of the R legislators are not complicit. But I think the assault was helped along by insiders, whether some legislators or some Capitol police and that reinforcements were delayed because of the DoJ's failure to act promptly when asked. Facebook, Twitter and Instagram (?) also had a hand in not muzzling these calls to action months ago.
Agree. Insiders for sure played a part....Angry police because of BLM...old grievances are always exploited by demagogues to further their aims. DOD officials are claiming they were worried about, "Appearances" of too much security forces...bad optics..... really? Why?
News accounts of the FBI offering agents was refused by Capital Police leadership.
Knowingly or unknowingly there was a command failure to organize the defenses. Its most likely a mix of both. Recent changes DT made at DOD are critical. Barr leaving early from DOJ.
DT conspired to threaten the Legislative branch and his VP. This I am certain. I believe his end game was to offer to negotiate with the hostage takers, save the day as a hero, blame it all on Antifa, and declare himself king or just a savior to ride another day.
Who knows? Nothing with T╤ПтШнmp is beyond the range of inconceivable.
I know. We know. Do not doubt that DT and his circle is responsible for the riot and knew exactly what the supporters were plotting to do. Blood and conspiracy are on their hands.
Jan 6th "Stop the Steal Rally" DT, Rudy, DT Jr told supporters with precision to march with anger in the hearts, to enter the Capital and conduct a trial by combat of Pence and Pelosi. The Plan happens. But deniability is always part of the easy "con".
He denies his responsibility in any part of it. He says he was only joking. "Really people, you think I would say those things if I knew a riot and hostage taking was possible? I m not that stupid! I wouldn't incriminate myself! ...Why, I had know idea that was gonna happen"
And not wanting to admit they have been conned, the people take him at is word, again, and again, and again.
This people, is the "art of the deal". But let us call it what it is, Con Artistry. That might be unethical but legal to sell condos, but a family in DC is burying their dead son, Capital Police officer, Brian Sicknick.
https://www.npr.org/sections/congress-electoral-college-tally-live-updates/2021/01/08/954842931/what-we-know-about-the-capitol-police-officer-who-died
Usually what happens with events like this is the lawmakers stick to their previous views but make a fix for only themselves. That would mean the right will talk about needing to carry guns for defense, the left will ask for criminal justice reform, and both will increase security at only the Capitol building.
As a very recently retired middle school teacher, I absolutely thought about that. And sadly also thought, even if brought to their attention, after having been through a siege where people were armed and those in military/police tactical type gear actually had slip tie handcuffs (for what purpose one can only imagine), I have little faith that gun regulations that will make any real difference will see the light of day.
Whatever flaws in their planning and leadership, the Capitol police deserve standing applause and a bonus for successfully getting all the members of Congress and their staffers to safety before tactically retreating before the savage horde of mini-Trumps. If even one Senator, House member, or staffer had been caught by that guy with the handcuffs, we would still be riveted to our televisions, watching a hostage situation unfold in the Chambers of Congress.
Yes, they were unprepared for an utterly predictable assault by the Trump-incited mob. But their restraint was, to my mind, admirable. The only reason that woman was shot was because she tried to enter the Chamber before it could be cleared. Even while a Capitol policeman was being beaten to death by the Trump branch of the Republican Party, the rest of his fellow officers concentrated on saving lives, not killing rioters.
While this debacle is a grim example of a right-wing mob being treated more gently than a left one, the answer is to have fewer blood-baths, not more.
I was not at all referring to the Capitol Police in my post. I agree they did their job in protecting our Congressional members, staff, and reporters. I was referring to those that infiltrated our nation's capitol.
So sorry, I didn't mean to imply that you were referring to anything else. I was really responding to your observation that some of the insurrectionists clearly had more in mind than posing at the dais or pissing in the hallways. Had the outnumbered defenders lost their focus, the insurrection may still be underway.
No worries! Agree that had the Capitol Police, who were doing their job, had not been there, there would have been a very different ending. The point was that after what members of Congress experienced will unfortunately not impact gun regulations in any meaningful manner forcing our kids to continue to be subject to practice active shooter drills. It is all just so wrong that anyone should have to fear being shot at the hands of people hell bent on destruction.
The heartbreaking massacre at Sandy Hook, as well as every other mass shooting, didn't move the gun control meter one iota. The bill that was brought to Congress by the parents in Newtown and Obama never passed. On Wednesday, none of the congressional people were killed or injured so unfortunately, this horrible episode will have zero impact regarding gun control. As someone else said, Congress may do something to further protect themselves (and federal property) but that is it.
Robin, what you say is part of the focus IMHO.
That was exactly what a letter to the editor in today's Tampa Bay Times said!
Yes, absolutely. I thought the same thing as I read about what they experienced on Wednesday. I hope images of this week never leave them.
and not to mention all these people have been responsible for not passing sensible gun law restriction which almost came home to bite them
Robin, great point! Thank you!