No, politics doesn't trump justice so much as it requires cast iron cases since, with their political power the Republicans could, oh, start an insurrection.
That's because Garland is so good at what he does - tight cases. Michael Moore predicted that, in addition to the normal reasons legislators leave office early, there will be Republicans who will be ousted when they are convicted. I suspect Gaetz knows he is one of the first, so has upped his game to destroy our government.
Gaetz: insurrectionist and sexual predator. That salt of the earth, church going folk who love their country would elect him to represent them is baffling.
I understand your frustration and anger, but I hope you said that in a moment of anger that slipped out of control. Badmouthing and making them the тАЬother тАЬ is doing exactly what the extreme members of the Republicans are doing to democrats. Criticize their policies and/or behavior without generalizing or stereotyping them. As Michele Obama said, тАЬ When they go low, we go high.тАЭ
I consider it more of an objective description than a tit for tat. тАЬWe go highтАЭ is clearly the path weтАЩre taking. Look at what this administration has accomplished!
Talk about being your own worst enemy! They canтАЩt settle on SotH for cryinтАЩ out loud, who they gonna run for POTUS? Kari Lake? Doug Mastriano? Ron Johnson? Heather quoted a day or two ago the reason some of the republicans were elected or re-elected is due to voter suppression or extreme gerrymandering.
I hope theyтАЩre taking a long hard look at PA. We took the state house, governor (again) and US senate seat. Governor-elect Shapiro has reached across the aisle to Republican Al Schmidt with a nomination for PA Sec. of the Commonwealth. Shapiro and Schmidt hold similar views, it is a step towards bringing good people back into power to who are serious about actually governing.
I agree they are fundamentalist opportunistic people. And for a progressive person, they are the enemy. Well put. How can they pray to god, be against abortion, and then support terrorists, rapers, abortion payers, misogynists?
In substance we are in agreement, TC. Nevertheless let us not stoop to the god-awful behaviors of "them." The Fundies and Evies are in league with authoritarian white male control, to their ignorance. There, that feels better.
The religious right is captured by the political far right for basically the abortion issue, or as they would call it, the sanctity of life issue. That is why everyone needs 3 guns, to protect the sanctity of life.
As of 9/23/22, 'Career prosecutors have recommended against charging Rep. Matt Gaetz (R-Fla.) in a long-running sex-trafficking investigation тАФ telling Justice Department superiors that a conviction is unlikely in part because of credibility questions with the two central witnesses, according to people familiar with the matter.'
'Senior department officials have not made a final decision on whether to charge Gaetz, but it is rare for such advice to be rejected, these people told The Washington Post, speaking on the condition of anonymity to discuss the deliberations. They added that it is always possible additional evidence emerges that could alter prosecutorsтАЩ understanding of the case.' (WAPO)
FERN, thank you for the accurate summary on Gaetz' status. Have you ever been an Editor? Of course, one (1) of the "two [2] central witnesses" is Gaetz' '"wingman" JOEL GREENBERG who has pled guilty. I believe the Daily Beast probably still has Greenberg's lengthy Plea Agreement posted. Salud.
Just bought a subscription today on Substack to post on JWVтАЩs newsletter. My firsts post was a rant about Mark Meadows being above the law. My second post was a rant in general. IтАЩll try to be a little more even handed next time!ЁЯШЙ
Huh. WeтАЩve all seen pictures of him with his arm draped around this 17 year oldтАЩs neck in a variety of states. And weтАЩve seen his comments about her being a mature 17. And the drugs. And the friends, which the convicted accomplice provided in detail. What additional evidence is needed, really?
WHY does Gaetz still have a law license? Just checked, Florida Bar lists him as eligible to practice law. Standard of proof is not as high as criminal conviction.
How can we citizens expect such a Congress to engage with hammering out something as challenging and critically needed as immigration reform? The insurrectionist supporters have rendered impossible the performing of even the simple task of choosing a House speaker. So far in 2023, they have achieved their goal -- cripple any semblance of a functional government "by and for the people."
Enough - squared to infinity! If there are a critical mass of functioning adults in Congress, we need them to assume the role of adults and act to get the nation out of this fools' circus.
As I've said before, just as the GOP is in denial about global warming, the Democratic leadership is in denial about the problems created by too much immigration. I recommend the book, Back of the Hiring Line: A 200-Year History of Immigration Surges, Employer Bias, and Depression of Black Wealth on one of the problems of immigration. ***Too much*** immigration put Trump in office, and has aggravated the GOP's nuttiness. Additionally, the sheer numbers worsen every environmental problem, including CO2 emissions. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/09/15/magazine/climate-crisis-migration-america.html
But I have to say, at the moment we have more pressing problems--as outlined by HCR above--than immigration.
The Republicans have failed and or refused to do anything substantive to improve the outdated immigration rules now in place. They get far more mileage out of whining about it than they would if they participated in designing a modern and reasonable policy, donтАЩt you think?
No. That vaunted "gang of eight" bill, which is typical, would have nearly tripled legal immigration, while doing nothing to stop illegal immigration.
To give you an idea of what mass immigration has done, in 1980, Black workers dominated in meat packing, earning a good middle class wage, sending kids to college. (See the book I ref'd in my first comment.) Immigration surged during the '80s, and by that decade's end, immigrants dominated meat packing, earning barely above minimum wage, working under atrocious conditions.
Immigration is big business' way of reducing wages. That's why Big Biz GOPers support more immigration, people like the Koch Organization, Mark Zuckerberg, George W. Bush, etc. Immigration is why workers wages have not increased over the last 40 years, despite much inflation. That Gang of 8 bill would have put more Black, white, and recent immigrant workers out of jobs, greatly aggravating the opioid crisis.
The Cotton Bill, which I think came up during the first full year of the TFG admin, went nowhere because not enough Democrats supported it, 45 didn't support it, and neither did Speaker Paul Ryan--although it came within about 25 votes to passing the House. It would have mandated E-Verify nationally, while reducing immigration from the current million-plus annually to around 750,000 annually--not enough reduction, but at least a start.
When she ran a commission under Clinton on immigration reform, the late Barbara Jordan, the Black Texas Democrat who made her name on the House Watergate Committee, recommended cutting the million annually roughly in half, and strict enforcement of immigration laws, which has not happened at least since the Reagan amnesty of 1986. But she died shortly after finishing her job, and neither Clinton nor Congress pursued putting her recommendations into law. Had her recommendations been established, Trump probably never would have gained the White House.
It's important to understand that immigration is a bipartisan issue. There are both Democrats and Republicans supporting each side of the issue.
I think the teflon is washing away, LizтАж.even for the Don. Benedict Donald is my fav name for him at the moment. Inmate No. 45 will be my fav when it happens. I agree that the indictments will start dropping, as you so poetically sayтАж..
Liz, I agree with you. But I think they will indict the POS. I loved Greg OlearтАЩs piece on the CI theory of Dump. It all made sense. His mob background, the ease with which he was manipulated by people far smarter than he could ever be, etc. Us New Yorkers know exactly what we were dealing with when he became potus, small letters, and still hard to believe.
Gaetz hasn't been indicted for the same reason tRUMP hasn't been indicted
ABOVE THE LAW - apparently he made bail and if they're still prosecuting his case, it isn't news. You and I would be serving time for his crimes by now but he's above the law.
and in possession of a penis. As we discovered when it became clear that Elizabeth Holmes (of Theranos infamy) was going to be used as a scapegoat for all the males who have done similar kinds of ponzi scheme stuff and gotten away with a teeny little wrist slap. Including the current crop of cryptocurrency ponzi crooks, who all seem to have made bail and are currently enjoying their freedom.
Uh, the derriere does not deserve to be associated with the former guy. It is an oft beautiful part of the human body, which evolved so H. sapiens could run fast enough to pursue prey in hunter-gatherer days (no other primate species has one), as also did the Achilles tendon and the nuchal ligament (see the writings of Harvard's Daniel Lieberman), and somewhere along the way evolved into a secondary sex characteristic.
Because they have no "credible" witness to testify against Gaetz in his trafficking case..... The witnesses to Gaetz's criminal actions were criminals themselves.... Which I say BS too - I would say daddy's money is behind the reason Gaetz's isn't in jail for sexual trafficking\
I heard an interview with Gaetz where he stated that if 6 Republicans vote for Jeffries, he (Gaetz) will resign from Congress. Sounds like a big WIN-WIN to me ЁЯШД
By someoneтАЩs count (MSNBC if memory serves), of the 139 GQP House members that voted to further the insurrection by voting to not certify the Electoral College count, 119 were re-elected to what might yet be the 118th Congress, why are none of them, along with there 7 unindicted co-conspirators in the Senate being subjected to the 14th Amendment?
Look at that poster of 121 faces/ Then, estimate how much PAC, dark, and plutocratic money went into installing them to corrupt our government on behalf of plutocrats. What would the benefactors of American politicians do in party and campaign contributions if that money was flushed down the drain by sending these well-connected and wealthy insurrectionists out of government in one action that held them accountable?
Why are those who swore to protect the Constitution but then signed on to support undermining it by overturning our election are being seated without objection? Consider that is because those keeping silent are more tied to a code of silence to protect their plutocratic ruling class than they are to protecting us, our country, or the Constitution.
Apparently the only amendment that matters is the misinterpreted 2nd amendment. All the others are an inconvenience to be trampled over on the way to power.
Listen to Rachel Maddow's "ULTRA" podcast and you will find that the last time America Firsters tried to overthrow the government (late 1930's and early 1940's), politics did outweigh justice. Most were not indicted and those that were were not found guilty.
Me too. That creep is also up on sex trafficking charges, if I'm not mistaken. He also looks about as stupid as a slime mold. Actually I think is stupidity stands alone.
To wit, I was being assertive in setting boundaries to distance myself from supporting any cultural mindset that regards assaulting people as A-OK. That applies in my awareness to any victim of assault. I'm surely redefining that boundary as I learn each day. To me, assertiveness differs greatly from defensiveness. I choose to believe in in you and in your experiences of injustice that you described above as real and valid. My apologies if you thought that I meant that you "are OK over here." Things are definitely not OK in the present system or the culture.
I'm still wondering why Gaetz hasn't been indicted yet. How long will it take to indict insurrection caucus members?
And those who are accused of trafficking underage women?
This is a feature not a bug for republicans. Also clearly politics trumps justice when it comes to elected republicans.
No, politics doesn't trump justice so much as it requires cast iron cases since, with their political power the Republicans could, oh, start an insurrection.
That's because Garland is so good at what he does - tight cases. Michael Moore predicted that, in addition to the normal reasons legislators leave office early, there will be Republicans who will be ousted when they are convicted. I suspect Gaetz knows he is one of the first, so has upped his game to destroy our government.
According to Washington Post article of Sept. 23, 2022 Matt Gaetz will probably not be charged. Read it and weep.
Gaetz: insurrectionist and sexual predator. That salt of the earth, church going folk who love their country would elect him to represent them is baffling.
They're not "salt of the earth church-going folk" - they're Fundamentalist scum. The Enemy.
I understand your frustration and anger, but I hope you said that in a moment of anger that slipped out of control. Badmouthing and making them the тАЬother тАЬ is doing exactly what the extreme members of the Republicans are doing to democrats. Criticize their policies and/or behavior without generalizing or stereotyping them. As Michele Obama said, тАЬ When they go low, we go high.тАЭ
Sarah, thank you for quoting Michele Obama "When they go low, we go high." Let's keep that mantra going!
We need to be a force of reason during these very unreasonable days.
Um respectfully not so sure even MO agrees 100% with her statement today. I know I do not.
I consider it more of an objective description than a tit for tat. тАЬWe go highтАЭ is clearly the path weтАЩre taking. Look at what this administration has accomplished!
Talk about being your own worst enemy! They canтАЩt settle on SotH for cryinтАЩ out loud, who they gonna run for POTUS? Kari Lake? Doug Mastriano? Ron Johnson? Heather quoted a day or two ago the reason some of the republicans were elected or re-elected is due to voter suppression or extreme gerrymandering.
I hope theyтАЩre taking a long hard look at PA. We took the state house, governor (again) and US senate seat. Governor-elect Shapiro has reached across the aisle to Republican Al Schmidt with a nomination for PA Sec. of the Commonwealth. Shapiro and Schmidt hold similar views, it is a step towards bringing good people back into power to who are serious about actually governing.
I agree they are fundamentalist opportunistic people. And for a progressive person, they are the enemy. Well put. How can they pray to god, be against abortion, and then support terrorists, rapers, abortion payers, misogynists?
In substance we are in agreement, TC. Nevertheless let us not stoop to the god-awful behaviors of "them." The Fundies and Evies are in league with authoritarian white male control, to their ignorance. There, that feels better.
The same church going crowd that don't mind a pussy grabbing prz.
The religious right is captured by the political far right for basically the abortion issue, or as they would call it, the sanctity of life issue. That is why everyone needs 3 guns, to protect the sanctity of life.
As of 9/23/22, 'Career prosecutors have recommended against charging Rep. Matt Gaetz (R-Fla.) in a long-running sex-trafficking investigation тАФ telling Justice Department superiors that a conviction is unlikely in part because of credibility questions with the two central witnesses, according to people familiar with the matter.'
'Senior department officials have not made a final decision on whether to charge Gaetz, but it is rare for such advice to be rejected, these people told The Washington Post, speaking on the condition of anonymity to discuss the deliberations. They added that it is always possible additional evidence emerges that could alter prosecutorsтАЩ understanding of the case.' (WAPO)
FERN, thank you for the accurate summary on Gaetz' status. Have you ever been an Editor? Of course, one (1) of the "two [2] central witnesses" is Gaetz' '"wingman" JOEL GREENBERG who has pled guilty. I believe the Daily Beast probably still has Greenberg's lengthy Plea Agreement posted. Salud.
Good to see you, Bryan. We have quite an active and agita start to the year. Your legal expertise will be leaned upon. Salud, friend!
Been posting on Substack's Professor Vance's community & on Substack's trial attorney author, Jay Kuo. Both capable.
Just bought a subscription today on Substack to post on JWVтАЩs newsletter. My firsts post was a rant about Mark Meadows being above the law. My second post was a rant in general. IтАЩll try to be a little more even handed next time!ЁЯШЙ
Welcome aboard but, evenhanded-ness no worries. Ability to pierce legal defenses highly valued; that's what JWV used to do for a living in Court.
Huh. WeтАЩve all seen pictures of him with his arm draped around this 17 year oldтАЩs neck in a variety of states. And weтАЩve seen his comments about her being a mature 17. And the drugs. And the friends, which the convicted accomplice provided in detail. What additional evidence is needed, really?
Speaking of predatorsтАФKing Charles has reportedly banished Andrew from the palace, events and benefits of being a member of the royal family.
... of being a "Spare".
WHY does Gaetz still have a law license? Just checked, Florida Bar lists him as eligible to practice law. Standard of proof is not as high as criminal conviction.
Thank you, iтАЩm Sure his daddyтАЩs money is a factor somewhere
No doubt
I predict Gaetz WILL be convicted Fern, with more evidence, and after tRump is caged. Betting a homemade Michigan Apple Pie!
Or he will be convicted next time he preys on minors because guys like him dont just stop that kind of behavior
Sadly, you are right.
Oh, Apple Pie! Please save one for me and my Sisters IN DEMOCRACY...there are a couple of Brothers, too!
It is unfortunate that no additional evidence seems to have emerged since 9/23/22.
We don't know about that, Mim, but it has been a long time without any news.
That's a good distinction, Fern.
How can we citizens expect such a Congress to engage with hammering out something as challenging and critically needed as immigration reform? The insurrectionist supporters have rendered impossible the performing of even the simple task of choosing a House speaker. So far in 2023, they have achieved their goal -- cripple any semblance of a functional government "by and for the people."
Enough - squared to infinity! If there are a critical mass of functioning adults in Congress, we need them to assume the role of adults and act to get the nation out of this fools' circus.
Happy Insurrectionist Day - lets make it a National holiday
As I've said before, just as the GOP is in denial about global warming, the Democratic leadership is in denial about the problems created by too much immigration. I recommend the book, Back of the Hiring Line: A 200-Year History of Immigration Surges, Employer Bias, and Depression of Black Wealth on one of the problems of immigration. ***Too much*** immigration put Trump in office, and has aggravated the GOP's nuttiness. Additionally, the sheer numbers worsen every environmental problem, including CO2 emissions. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/09/15/magazine/climate-crisis-migration-america.html
But I have to say, at the moment we have more pressing problems--as outlined by HCR above--than immigration.
The Republicans have failed and or refused to do anything substantive to improve the outdated immigration rules now in place. They get far more mileage out of whining about it than they would if they participated in designing a modern and reasonable policy, donтАЩt you think?
No. That vaunted "gang of eight" bill, which is typical, would have nearly tripled legal immigration, while doing nothing to stop illegal immigration.
To give you an idea of what mass immigration has done, in 1980, Black workers dominated in meat packing, earning a good middle class wage, sending kids to college. (See the book I ref'd in my first comment.) Immigration surged during the '80s, and by that decade's end, immigrants dominated meat packing, earning barely above minimum wage, working under atrocious conditions.
Immigration is big business' way of reducing wages. That's why Big Biz GOPers support more immigration, people like the Koch Organization, Mark Zuckerberg, George W. Bush, etc. Immigration is why workers wages have not increased over the last 40 years, despite much inflation. That Gang of 8 bill would have put more Black, white, and recent immigrant workers out of jobs, greatly aggravating the opioid crisis.
The Cotton Bill, which I think came up during the first full year of the TFG admin, went nowhere because not enough Democrats supported it, 45 didn't support it, and neither did Speaker Paul Ryan--although it came within about 25 votes to passing the House. It would have mandated E-Verify nationally, while reducing immigration from the current million-plus annually to around 750,000 annually--not enough reduction, but at least a start.
When she ran a commission under Clinton on immigration reform, the late Barbara Jordan, the Black Texas Democrat who made her name on the House Watergate Committee, recommended cutting the million annually roughly in half, and strict enforcement of immigration laws, which has not happened at least since the Reagan amnesty of 1986. But she died shortly after finishing her job, and neither Clinton nor Congress pursued putting her recommendations into law. Had her recommendations been established, Trump probably never would have gained the White House.
It's important to understand that immigration is a bipartisan issue. There are both Democrats and Republicans supporting each side of the issue.
Getting fed-up with DOJ and where is the Jack Smith Knight in Shining Armor we hoped for????
Patience.
Love that saying of your Mom┬┤s. I think I will pass it along to my kids.
"God" needs to grant a big kick in the ass th these obvious criminals. What kind of an example (and god) does this show our children
Just returned to the US after recovering from surgery in Europe.
hope you recover fully and better than ever!
I believe MLM was referring to Jack Smith, the special prosecutor.
That confusion shows the importance of having a subject in a sentence.
I'm glad MLMinET is okay and hasn't had surgery to recover from.
I think the teflon is washing away, LizтАж.even for the Don. Benedict Donald is my fav name for him at the moment. Inmate No. 45 will be my fav when it happens. I agree that the indictments will start dropping, as you so poetically sayтАж..
Liz, I agree with you. But I think they will indict the POS. I loved Greg OlearтАЩs piece on the CI theory of Dump. It all made sense. His mob background, the ease with which he was manipulated by people far smarter than he could ever be, etc. Us New Yorkers know exactly what we were dealing with when he became potus, small letters, and still hard to believe.
Gaetz hasn't been indicted for the same reason tRUMP hasn't been indicted
ABOVE THE LAW - apparently he made bail and if they're still prosecuting his case, it isn't news. You and I would be serving time for his crimes by now but he's above the law.
Hmmm. Rich, white, influential = nolo prosecute.
and in possession of a penis. As we discovered when it became clear that Elizabeth Holmes (of Theranos infamy) was going to be used as a scapegoat for all the males who have done similar kinds of ponzi scheme stuff and gotten away with a teeny little wrist slap. Including the current crop of cryptocurrency ponzi crooks, who all seem to have made bail and are currently enjoying their freedom.
Indeed. I forgot that. How silly of me!!
Uh, the derriere does not deserve to be associated with the former guy. It is an oft beautiful part of the human body, which evolved so H. sapiens could run fast enough to pursue prey in hunter-gatherer days (no other primate species has one), as also did the Achilles tendon and the nuchal ligament (see the writings of Harvard's Daniel Lieberman), and somewhere along the way evolved into a secondary sex characteristic.
Because they have no "credible" witness to testify against Gaetz in his trafficking case..... The witnesses to Gaetz's criminal actions were criminals themselves.... Which I say BS too - I would say daddy's money is behind the reason Gaetz's isn't in jail for sexual trafficking\
criminals testify against each other all the time, so that reason is suss
not in the case of a sitting us representative and whose father is a retired state senator and very rich......
Rich old southern white guy yanking the strings .
Nailed it.
I heard an interview with Gaetz where he stated that if 6 Republicans vote for Jeffries, he (Gaetz) will resign from Congress. Sounds like a big WIN-WIN to me ЁЯШД
By someoneтАЩs count (MSNBC if memory serves), of the 139 GQP House members that voted to further the insurrection by voting to not certify the Electoral College count, 119 were re-elected to what might yet be the 118th Congress, why are none of them, along with there 7 unindicted co-conspirators in the Senate being subjected to the 14th Amendment?
121 according to Michael Moore who does better work for us on the ground than MSNBC's corporate talking heads do for us on the screen.
https://www.michaelmoore.com/p/democracys-day-of-decision
Look at that poster of 121 faces/ Then, estimate how much PAC, dark, and plutocratic money went into installing them to corrupt our government on behalf of plutocrats. What would the benefactors of American politicians do in party and campaign contributions if that money was flushed down the drain by sending these well-connected and wealthy insurrectionists out of government in one action that held them accountable?
Why are those who swore to protect the Constitution but then signed on to support undermining it by overturning our election are being seated without objection? Consider that is because those keeping silent are more tied to a code of silence to protect their plutocratic ruling class than they are to protecting us, our country, or the Constitution.
Apparently the only amendment that matters is the misinterpreted 2nd amendment. All the others are an inconvenience to be trampled over on the way to power.
Listen to Rachel Maddow's "ULTRA" podcast and you will find that the last time America Firsters tried to overthrow the government (late 1930's and early 1940's), politics did outweigh justice. Most were not indicted and those that were were not found guilty.
When I heard that I deeply wondered WHY? Why did Truman turn the other way? HeтАЩs not one to shy from a bully. I did not hear an explanation to that
Me too. That creep is also up on sex trafficking charges, if I'm not mistaken. He also looks about as stupid as a slime mold. Actually I think is stupidity stands alone.
Amen!
Quite a while, apparently.
"This culture?" Not part of the culture with which many of us identify.
To wit, I was being assertive in setting boundaries to distance myself from supporting any cultural mindset that regards assaulting people as A-OK. That applies in my awareness to any victim of assault. I'm surely redefining that boundary as I learn each day. To me, assertiveness differs greatly from defensiveness. I choose to believe in in you and in your experiences of injustice that you described above as real and valid. My apologies if you thought that I meant that you "are OK over here." Things are definitely not OK in the present system or the culture.