As I understand the law, if Raffensperger did not inform all parties he was recording the call, the recording cannot be used as evidence before a grand jury or court. (The court of public opinion is quite another matter.) Since Trump's lawyers were so incompetent as to allow him to make the call in the first place, and to possibly incrim…
As I understand the law, if Raffensperger did not inform all parties he was recording the call, the recording cannot be used as evidence before a grand jury or court. (The court of public opinion is quite another matter.) Since Trump's lawyers were so incompetent as to allow him to make the call in the first place, and to possibly incriminate themselves by listening in, maybe they wouldn't have objected to it being recorded. A trifecta of legal incompetence.
That said...
Shouldn't a Georgia or federal grand jury hear evidence for a possible indictment on federal and/or state charges of election tampering immediately, as in today, against lawyers and staff who participated in the call? (Disbarment proceedings should be scheduled by lunchtime.) In sixteen days presidential immunity ends for Trump, and the grand jury(s) can consider him for indictment as well.
SDNY attorneys might start screaming, "We get him first! We get him first!"
In GA it is legal to record a conversation/phone call without consent, as long as the person recording the call is part of the conversation. I forget what the legal term is for this. So yes it was legally recorded.
It’s legal under federal law as well: “ As long as the person hitting “record” is aware and part of the conversation, recording conversations is legal under Federal law. ... It is illegal to intercept or record a conversation without at least one of the parties being aware.Sep 15, 2020
If the recording of a conversation is legal if only one party is aware of the recording, it means it's ok to make the recording. Does it also mean the recording can be presented as evidence against the unaware party in a legal proceeding?
Federal law permits recording telephone calls and in-person conversations with the consent of at least one of the parties. See 18 U.S.C. 2511(2)(d). ... Under a one-party consent law, you can record a phone call or conversation so long as you are a party to the conversation.
From 2011 so I don't know if it still applies:
In 12 states—California, Connecticut, Florida, Illinois, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Montana, Nevada, New Hampshire, Pennsylvania, and Washington—all parties involved need to consent before one of them can record the conversation.
There are some exceptions to the two-party consent rules.
Georgia
It is illegal under Georgia’s wiretapping and eavesdropping statutes to record an oral or telephone conversation without the consent of at least one party. Violations are felonies and can subject the offender to fines and/or imprisonment.
GA Code § 16-11-62, § 16-11-66 (definitions), § 16-11-69 (penalty)
t is illegal under Georgia’s wiretapping and eavesdropping statutes to record an oral or telephone conversation without the consent of at least one party. Violations are felonies and can subject the offender to fines and/or imprisonment.
Washington
Washington law requires the consent of all parties to legally record in-person or telephone conversations. Consent is considered obtained via a reasonably clear announcement made to all parties during the recording. Violations are considered a gross misdemeanor and can also lead to civil damages.
I just saw on WAPO that a Georgia election board member has called for a probe into this recorded call. I cannot access the article because I do not have a subscription.
We need to support GA election board member David Worley!!!
From WAPO:
"The sole Democrat on Georgia’s state election board has reportedly urged Raffensperger to investigate possible civil and criminal violations committed by Trump during the call in which Trump ordered Raffensperger to “find” enough votes to reverse his defeat in the state. David Worley told The Washington Post that the call gave “probable cause” to believe that Trump broke Georgia’s election code, adding: “It’s a crime to solicit election fraud, and asking the secretary to change the votes is a textbook definition of election fraud.” Worley cited a specific law that makes it a crime to solicit someone else to commit election fraud in Georgia—and, according to the Post, that can be punished by as much as three years in prison.
Thank you, Ellie! This is (rather sickly and sordidly) wonderful! And I like that they included Lindsey Graham as another person who tried to interfere in the GA election!
Thank you for clarifying this, Margaret. I was not happy to hear that it was recorded without all parties knowing, as that seems devious. But I'm still glad to hear that was not illegal in GA.
I didn't suspect any devious intentions to the recording; I assumed BR chose to record it to protect himself from the lies Trump might tell about the conversation. As turned out to be the case.
The SDNY has access to a lot of lawyers who are chomping on the bit!!! And, no “Club Fed” for trump and his cohorts in crime. They can “retire” in a state prison system.
I'm sure Preet Bharara and Anne Milgram will sort this out this week on Cafe Insider but for now the cat is out of the bag. Finally what goes around has come back around for a flailing T**** making his last dying gasps to avoid the reality he has been able to avoid for the most part of his life.
The President's saying in his call to Raffensburger that "I only need 11,000 votes. Fellas, I need 11,000 votes. Give me a break" is the plea of a convicted and sentenced felon as he sees the court baliff approaching him with the handcuffs .
The President indeed deserves "a break," the same one he gave to the caged children of parents seeking asylum, to the demonstrators for democracy and racial equality at Lafayette Square, to the women he demeaned, to the allies he betrayed and the scientists he insulted and obstructed for disagreeing with his approach to the coronavirus. Back in the schoolyard in Newark, when someone said "Gimmee a Break," the standard reply was, "Sure, both legs."
As I understand the law, if Raffensperger did not inform all parties he was recording the call, the recording cannot be used as evidence before a grand jury or court. (The court of public opinion is quite another matter.) Since Trump's lawyers were so incompetent as to allow him to make the call in the first place, and to possibly incriminate themselves by listening in, maybe they wouldn't have objected to it being recorded. A trifecta of legal incompetence.
That said...
Shouldn't a Georgia or federal grand jury hear evidence for a possible indictment on federal and/or state charges of election tampering immediately, as in today, against lawyers and staff who participated in the call? (Disbarment proceedings should be scheduled by lunchtime.) In sixteen days presidential immunity ends for Trump, and the grand jury(s) can consider him for indictment as well.
SDNY attorneys might start screaming, "We get him first! We get him first!"
In GA it is legal to record a conversation/phone call without consent, as long as the person recording the call is part of the conversation. I forget what the legal term is for this. So yes it was legally recorded.
It’s legal under federal law as well: “ As long as the person hitting “record” is aware and part of the conversation, recording conversations is legal under Federal law. ... It is illegal to intercept or record a conversation without at least one of the parties being aware.Sep 15, 2020
www.cflblaw.com › 2020/09 “
If the recording of a conversation is legal if only one party is aware of the recording, it means it's ok to make the recording. Does it also mean the recording can be presented as evidence against the unaware party in a legal proceeding?
I think there is a difference.
The other participants on the call were witnesses and can be called to testify.
I think it is legal and can be used as evidence. I have never agreed with this law, but I am glad for it today!
I wonder what the chances are that Trump also recorded the call?
Isn’t that automatic?
I can’t answer to that. Needs to be researched.
From what a lawyer told me, it does hold up in court. Thank goodness, I didn’t end up needing it, but was happy to be able to get evidence.
Thanks for doing the research.
Federal law permits recording telephone calls and in-person conversations with the consent of at least one of the parties. See 18 U.S.C. 2511(2)(d). ... Under a one-party consent law, you can record a phone call or conversation so long as you are a party to the conversation.
From 2011 so I don't know if it still applies:
In 12 states—California, Connecticut, Florida, Illinois, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Montana, Nevada, New Hampshire, Pennsylvania, and Washington—all parties involved need to consent before one of them can record the conversation.
There are some exceptions to the two-party consent rules.
Georgia
It is illegal under Georgia’s wiretapping and eavesdropping statutes to record an oral or telephone conversation without the consent of at least one party. Violations are felonies and can subject the offender to fines and/or imprisonment.
From Justia.com
link: https://www.justia.com/50-state-surveys/recording-phone-calls-and-conversations/
GA Code § 16-11-62, § 16-11-66 (definitions), § 16-11-69 (penalty)
t is illegal under Georgia’s wiretapping and eavesdropping statutes to record an oral or telephone conversation without the consent of at least one party. Violations are felonies and can subject the offender to fines and/or imprisonment.
Washington
Washington law requires the consent of all parties to legally record in-person or telephone conversations. Consent is considered obtained via a reasonably clear announcement made to all parties during the recording. Violations are considered a gross misdemeanor and can also lead to civil damages.
WA Rev Code § 9.73.030 (definition), § 9.73.080 (penalty), § 9.73.060 (civil damages)
Might be the best news of the day, especially if someone acts on it.
I just saw on WAPO that a Georgia election board member has called for a probe into this recorded call. I cannot access the article because I do not have a subscription.
We need to support GA election board member David Worley!!!
From WAPO:
"The sole Democrat on Georgia’s state election board has reportedly urged Raffensperger to investigate possible civil and criminal violations committed by Trump during the call in which Trump ordered Raffensperger to “find” enough votes to reverse his defeat in the state. David Worley told The Washington Post that the call gave “probable cause” to believe that Trump broke Georgia’s election code, adding: “It’s a crime to solicit election fraud, and asking the secretary to change the votes is a textbook definition of election fraud.” Worley cited a specific law that makes it a crime to solicit someone else to commit election fraud in Georgia—and, according to the Post, that can be punished by as much as three years in prison.
Via Philadelphia Enquirer:
https://www.inquirer.com/politics/nation/donald-trump-georgia-election-phone-call-find-votes-change-result-investigation-20210104.html
Thank you, Ellie! This is (rather sickly and sordidly) wonderful! And I like that they included Lindsey Graham as another person who tried to interfere in the GA election!
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=AW_Bdf_jGaA
I will find it, but I guess I can’t post it...?
Thank you for clarifying this, Margaret. I was not happy to hear that it was recorded without all parties knowing, as that seems devious. But I'm still glad to hear that was not illegal in GA.
I didn't suspect any devious intentions to the recording; I assumed BR chose to record it to protect himself from the lies Trump might tell about the conversation. As turned out to be the case.
Would anyone go into a meeting with DJT without a chaperone or lawyer and a recording device?
Oh, thank you for this info, Margaret! Phew!
Good news! Thank you.
Hooray!
Phew!!
The SDNY has access to a lot of lawyers who are chomping on the bit!!! And, no “Club Fed” for trump and his cohorts in crime. They can “retire” in a state prison system.
I'm sure Preet Bharara and Anne Milgram will sort this out this week on Cafe Insider but for now the cat is out of the bag. Finally what goes around has come back around for a flailing T**** making his last dying gasps to avoid the reality he has been able to avoid for the most part of his life.
The President's saying in his call to Raffensburger that "I only need 11,000 votes. Fellas, I need 11,000 votes. Give me a break" is the plea of a convicted and sentenced felon as he sees the court baliff approaching him with the handcuffs .
The President indeed deserves "a break," the same one he gave to the caged children of parents seeking asylum, to the demonstrators for democracy and racial equality at Lafayette Square, to the women he demeaned, to the allies he betrayed and the scientists he insulted and obstructed for disagreeing with his approach to the coronavirus. Back in the schoolyard in Newark, when someone said "Gimmee a Break," the standard reply was, "Sure, both legs."
Ralph, that wouldn't be true in the State of Georgia. Both parties do not have to have consent.