They admit to their lies. They admit to sabotaging their opponent. How can this not be illegal? And will their hordes of devoted followers actually hear any of that???? Thanks, Professor, for the daily injection of truth in this mess. I’m grateful to you.
They admit to their lies. They admit to sabotaging their opponent. How can this not be illegal? And will their hordes of devoted followers actually hear any of that???? Thanks, Professor, for the daily injection of truth in this mess. I’m grateful to you.
"They admit their lies". How can this not be illegal?
Almost nothing a corporation in the United States does is illegal. Corporations are pretty much free to do whatever they want, where ever they want, however they want to whomever they want. Not only are there no laws burdening Corporations BUT Corporations are also free from liability in almost all cases where they infringe on the rights of people, nature, or any rights of anything. Corporations, for example, are able to:
Allow massive toxic waste emission due to poor maintenance leading to train derailment.
Dump toxic waste into minority neighborhoods.
Hire all white workforces (which is the case even today in most corporations).
Fire workers "at will".
Lie to workers.
Lie about the products they produce.
Destroy the environmental ecology of water and air.
Clear cut trees "at will".
Really, there is nothing a corporation cannot do in this "great" country. Fox News is no different.
If you want to do whatever you want, incorporate and get started!!
Right here in the good ole USA!!
The probability that this Dominion lawsuit actually wins any damages? Not large.
Sorry, but while corporations get away with much, they are not immune or above the law. It is difficult to bring them to book, but not impossible. And with the Biden administration in the White House, protections for labor and the environment are being enforced again. Not as quickly or as much as I’d like, but corporations are being held to account. And private parties are holding them to account. In my own case, I represent employees who have suffered discrimination and retaliation at the hands of their employers. I and my colleagues fight large companies all the time. Frequently, we win. So my suggestion is to work to get Democrats elected at all levels, and then work to get good legislation passed and enforced. It will be more difficult and less immediately satisfying in the short run, but more productive in the end.
I agree with "It is difficult to bring them to book, but not impossible."
That statement does not conflict with what I wrote as far as I can tell.
I would add: The reality of most Americans is that if a Corporation does something that should be illegal, like lie about Dominion voting machines, it is a VERY daunting and expensive process to hold them to account IF it is possible at all.
Practically speaking, it is impossible for most people to stop a corporation from doing anything at all.
And, Norfolk Southern knows this and is playing it very well.
Also, thanks for your work and recommendations. I do only vote straight Democratic ticket. I wish I had the faith in those folks you do, but, I still vote like you do.
I know guys like you do good work. But, I also know people who have attempted to take a corporation to court and it is daunting in the extreme.
You are correct, but remember the tobacco fight? The corporations had 3,000 lawyers I believe against 30 or so government. Conservatives fight against white collar law enforcement.
And, in the end, who won the fight over tobacco? The picture of a few, often young, government lawyers going up against myriad corporate suits has been common since the New Deal. Keep the faith!
Mike, it sounds as if you are so far down the cynicism scale that you can't even ask "how can we apply what we learned to these other corporation misdeeds". I'm sorry about your father. My father died early of diseases caused by smoking too, and his second-hand smoke gave my mother terminal lung cancer. Because I had asthma, I spent a lot of time out of my own home when I was growing up.
But that lawsuit and its outcomes made it possible for me to go out to public places again, to be a part of society. The outcomes of that lawsuit are protecting my children and grandchildren from other people's smoke and from the lies of advertisers. Yep, bringing these legal cases isn't easy, but it won't happen at all if we give up because it's hard. Or because it takes time. It's becoming easier to gain ground against corporate actions that harm us or our environment. And the more we do it, the more success we'll have.
My father was a similar smoker. He also died from lung cancer. He knew for decades that it was a terrible choice to smoke. But he did it anyway. I have no sympathy for him or anyone else who is so stupid as to smoke. Blaming "addictive additives" is just a convenient excuse. Lots of people quit smoking with no adverse effects.
Yes they did, only to the credit of an insider. Corporate America learned from that and I really doubt it might happen again. Just look at the fossil fuel industry. We have the goods on them now. With the Lewis Powell memo, corporate America has the strategy. With Buchanan and Friedman they have the way. I would love to have faith, but the white collar crime enforcement has been hollowed out to such an extent that these folks with their billions and legion of attorneys stay miles ahead of the government now. While they use the strategy that the Kochs started doing where they not only elect those that support them, but that will work to change the law to lock in what they want. It is a multiprong strategy that started at the local level and is now inside the federal level.
Smokers, the real victims won nothing Jon. *edit in - I should have added that 'smokers and those who love them won nothing.' The many who might 'sniffle up their sleeves' proclaiming quite simply that 'they should just quit' know nothing - zero about the complexities of addiction ! As has been opined here in other words regards corporations, "hit them in the pocket"... that's where the rubber really meets the road and would have the greatest effect on such single minded focused beasts. If all smokers just 'simply' quit, tobacco companies would've gone bankrupt.
Cigarettes have a huge social cost and should be banned. Of course, the states and feds don't want to give up all the tax revenue. And Europe and Asia are still huge customers.
Too many people want to pretend that cigs are so addictive that users just can't quit. That is simply not true. Of course they can quit if they really want to. But, like my father, they really do not want to quit. After 70 years of smoking he finally got lung cancer and multiple other smoking related health issues. 3-4 packs a day, 3 martinis every evening and no exercise limited him to 83 years. Take away the cigs and he probably would have hit 100.
My hope, too, but I'm not going to hold my breath. I don't know that the people that watch Faux Noise or either of those other two tabloid TV rags will EVER hear the truth about all the BS.
And now we have the rise of Christian Nationalism which enforces a fascistic government with a touch of religion thrown in. Who dares to challenge religious beliefs? Not the Supreme Court.
Check out Faithful America. They are an ecumenical group challenging both Christian Nationalism and White Supremacy. I found their message very hopeful. The right-wingers don't own the faith field.
The damage to our nation has been done by citizens and their aquaintences. Our military has stayed out of it. Whatever damage has been wrought upon Dominion needs to be decided in court, and we would best stay out of it. Certainly the lies are despicable, and like tobacco, they were cleverly sold. But! We bought into them. Smoking was your choice, just like believinmg the slick lies. Being a religious fanatic is a choice. Being gay is a choice. being transG is s choice. Driving OUI is a choice. Being Black is not a choice. We need to quit coddling stuff that is a "choice".. that's the driver in all of this.. "choice". So..., if you chose to defame Dominion..,. you pay the price.
This is true, Karen. My own brother got very mad at me this morning and sent me a biting response when I simply asked him if he'd been keeping up with the Rupert Murdoch story. I sent him the link to Heather's column in case he wasn't reading about it from other sources. He must have it judging from his extreme reaction. He doesn't want to admit any fault by that network.
It’s much worse than that. They don’t want the truth. They want lies and find them wherever they can. FNC knows that if it doesn’t deliver the lies their viewers want, their viewers will watch something else.
And these are public corporations--so ultimately SHAREHOLDERS need to pressure these organizations, to hold them accountable. Look at your investment funds and make your expectations as a shareholder known. At the end of the day, people will make the difference, but we have to unite and maintain consistent pressure on companies and government representatives to right this horrible situation.
Jon, Mike's statement is a lament, not a challenge, nor a surrender. He is not wearing rose tinted glasses by his statement; they are facts of life an honest, humble attorney should well recognize rather than refute. I've 'been there - done that' such battles; it's daunting under the best circumstances armed even with facts in evidence and a battery of crack attorneys.
Jon, please enlighten me: How do we get Democrats elected to the Supreme Court? It's SCOTUS that's both underwriting corporate power and hamstringing "the people" to do anything about it. I'm glad that you're winning battles for your clients, but your victories are here and there, while the scope of SCOTUS is the whole country.
We don't. The Supreme Court is appointed not elected. The quickest way to reform is to elect a Democrat in 2024 (Joe Biden or someone else if he does not run), and increase the number of Democrats in the Senate (given the 2024 senatorial map, difficult but not impossible given how the Republicans are going), then do away with the filibuster and increase the size of the Court from 9 to 13 members--which Congress and the President can do. Then the President would have enough appointments to override the reactionary majority that's on the court presently.
That was my point: the makeup of the SCOTUS is going to take plenty of time and effort to change. Your "quickest way to reform" boils down to "wave a wand and wish real hard."
Wishing for a Democratic victory in 2024 is NOT what Jon Margolis and others, including me, are saying. Instead, each of us has to become an election activist by actively supporting good candidates at local, state, and federal levels with our work, wisdom, and donations if we can. Even a few dollars a month, or 20 Postcards to Voters every week or month, or joining a local campaign can make the difference.
If you really want a Democratic president in 2024, then get active with your local Indivisible group, local Democratic party, or other grassroots campaign group.
Mike S...It's all too evident that in this country, corporations have far more rights than any citizen. Too sad for words. I can't hit the "heart" on your comment...but you are 100% correct.
Harvey, Fox News would say I am a communist, which, is not true, but entirely legal for them to broadcast. Then, if anyone criticizes Fox for lying, Fox will start crying about limiting their "free speech" as if the first amendment applies to private entities.
And? Their dumb and dumber audience "believes" it all. Like kittens lapping up warm milk.
I think that the audience for BS is rooted in the belief that MSM is not trustworthy, propagated by those who hate being exposed, for bad actors always rationalize what they do as being misrepresented by honest journalists. And sources like FN will give them a megaphone and an audience that lacks any critical thinking.
I would add that underneath all of that is fear. They are like frightened kittens - hissing, lashing out and puffing themselves up to appear larger than they actually are. If they weren't so dangerous in their ignorance,, they would be amusing.
Mike, I agree with you. Because the MSM does not confirm their prejudice they distrust them and cling to any source that does. FN was terrified of losing audience to another source of BS so as is the American way profits over people and in this case profit over country.
And Americans love to shop and shop and shop. Americans' addiction to over consumption has given rise to these Corporations who in turn abused their consumers, the environment and common decency.
Let's not get too into the victim here. Which Corporations are you and me and others continuing to purchase from that you know are engaging in all manner of harmful practices? How many Americans own stock in these Corporations? How many Americans investigate a Corporation before they purchase from them?
"Which Corporations are you and me and others continuing to purchase from that you know are engaging in all manner of harmful practices?"
GUILTY as charged Barbara. I filled up my tank with gasoline yesterday. I bought Oatmeal too (which requires huge swaths of cleared land to produce). I bought a chicken too (which was raised in horrific circumstances).
Point very well taken.
However, I do limit what I buy compared to the average American. I do work to reforest areas of my state. I do work to limit (I cannot eliminate) logging.
But, I have to eat. I have to drive because our entire society was built up around that long before I was born.
I guess I COULD become Amish. But? Then? I would have to buy some forested area and cut every last tree to turn it into a farm. Because, existing farms are few and far between and hard to beat the Amish land men to.
Plus, if I became Amish I would not be able to listen to NPR anymore.
I do too Mike. There are many of us who have been engaging in what I call mindful consumption for years. I don't use Amazon, nor shop at Walmart. But that's just me.
Let's escape from over-personalizing the topic for a minute and look at the larger picture. Americans, through their purchasing practices, have been blindly supporting Corporate policies for years.
There are still very rural areas where the choice is either Walmart or Hannaford or "BigBox" or drive an hour (or more) to get to a locally owned specialty store that sells the item needed. Choice, in less populous areas, is limited.
During the season we purchase from local farmer's markets; during the winter we shop at the local food coop. BUT and it's a big but: we are retired and comfortably off.
In this area such is not necessarily the case for far too many folks and sometimes people just have to shop where their money goes the furthest--regardless of where they would LIKE to put their dollars. Also...juggling multiple low paying jobs to make ends meet, leaves little time for meal prep. Cooking from scratch is becoming a lost art due to time constraints
Most - the majority do not Barb, and I would charge unwittingly. There's an awful lot of dark arts, science, tech, and psychology feverishly at work - both obvious and behind the curtains, arrayed against those of us of good conscience and intent. For instance, some years ago while still able to work, I was often conscious of investment choices for 401k's, reasoning that was important for my family and I later down the road I now find myself at. My 'guy' was and still is very big on oil, which just like land - can't be created nor conjured into existence. When I delved into studying it, I made some explosive, soul crushing discoveries. To cite just one, the California Teachers Association Retirement fund was heavily invested in Russian oil companies. Think about that for just a bit.... Lakes of oil were found within / under Russian controlled territories. Russia joined hands with the middle east oil cartels / countries and conspired along with many of them, in and outside the middle east. A conflict for hearts, minds, and souls was raging within Russia and it's satellites for control of the masses... why I asked myself. Lots of dots connect over time. Aside from all this, not because the author has anything in common with you or I, but just for the enlightenment of it, I highly recommend reading the book "The Ranch Papers: A California Memoir" by Jane Hollister Wheelwright. Thanks for all you contribute here Barb ~
There's a move here in Oregon in the legislature to divest the PERS fund from big oil. I doubt it will happen, but some people are making an effort. This whole thread has put me into a rather cynical mood as to what we can to do to save the planet.
I grew up in Elkhart County, Indiana, where we had plenty of Amish. Some adhered strictly to the old ways and had buggies, etc. Some were not as strict and had cars, but they were always a dark color. Some also had very successful enterprises like restaurants and places you could tour. My father stopped going to the big restaurant nearby because of case where a wife took off and was brought back and he wasn't going to support criminals. Of course, he voted R all his life (except for the single vote for FDR in 1930) and listened to Rush. I don't know what he would think about the current R criminal enterprise and the death star crime family.
We try to do this as best we can. We can't do anything about pension fund investments, but we can do something about where and what we buy and we try to keep it local as much as possible. It is much easier to do now that we are retired because we can live in jeans and sweatshirts and no, can't do anything about where those come from, but we do not buy clothes very often. The outdoor Saturday Market starts this Saturday....maybe, as it snowing as I type this, and we support local farmers, preferably those who are organic and have pastured animals, local food, etc. We have solar panels on the roof and a Prius Prime (and yes, I know the problem with the batteries), and have a garden and grow some of our own food. We avoid Amazon like the plague unless we have no other choice and we buy our books from the famous Portland book store, Powell's. So it isn't possible to avoid all corporations, but it is possible not to be thoughtless consumers, buying what we do not need.
This is an interesting issue. It is the policies of many corporations that need to be regulated. Take anti-trust actions, for example. Look at the free speech issues that treat corporations as persons and give them even more power in our society far more than us as humble individuals. The wealth, material wealth, of this country seems to me to be built on consumerism and capitalism. Think of all the “things” that make our lives better and more enjoyable. The philosophical issues regarding materialism would be a deep dive for us here in the comment section. These are my thoughts this morning.
I would say “free speech“ because that’s the rationale that the US Supreme Court used to allow corporations to spend virtually any amount of money on political campaigns, which affects every aspect of our lives. Therefore regulation of these companies is far more important than them using the money we pay them for goods and services we want. Businesses also do benefit society by employing people, and providing goods and services we want. Regulation, therefore, is the missing element. Start with anti-trust actions, support for unions, and good tax policy.
That is not to say that there is a place for boycotting or protest.
The Murdochs get money from their advertisers--not directly from their viewers (other than the My Pillow guy who is also an advertiser.) The only way to get to the Murdochs is to make their advertisers leave in droves. Apparently that is best done by putting pressure on the online ad exchanges that broker ads on Fox and the other MAGA outlets.
Follow the money. Maybe we can make it so that the My Pillow Guy and Trump and his NTFs are the only ones advertising on Fox and the other Faux News channels and outlets including YouTube and Facebook and Mastodon and.....the possible exception being Twitter.
Advertisers want viewers. Advertisers want proof people are subscribing to/reading the publication. Through subscriptions and counting clicks on any article publications show the advertisers that people will see their ads. Then the advertisers pay the publication. It's a symbiotic relationship.
The point is that there is a middle man between the advertisers and the media conglomerates like Fox that deals with the bookings of online ads. General Mills does not call Fox directly. The relatively small group of online ad exchanges have standards they tout to the advertisers. Pressure can be applied to the exchanges if it is pointed out to them that they are violating their own standards of engagement, for instance not posting ads near content promoting domestic terrorism. That is the pressure point.
If corporations are truly to be treated as "citizens" under Citizens United, then they can be sued as citizens as well and they can be held accountable for their actions. I don't understand why this argument is not made loudly and strongly. Citizens have responsibilities as well as rights. Hold their feet to the fire for a change.
How can it not be treason? Murdoch, Carlson, Hannity, et al. at Fox have deliberately destabilized the United States, undermined our democracy, made huge profits by spewing disinformation, and given substantial aid and comfort to foreign enemies. And, most in the Republican Party are either ignorant or complicit.
Exactly. Fox has attacked the integrity of our democracy. Their license to broadcast should have been immediately yanked. Murdoch and crew should have been handcuffed. It's beyond ridiculous.
So agree. How is a "news" organization that lies to citizens, for any purpose, be allowed to have free use of limited broadcast airwaves to spread their foul lies?
Who decides what is the "lie"? Sounds like censorship, banning certain media entities etc. And we all know that slippery slope leads to authoritarian governments.
Fox isn’t news, it’s propaganda. For money, not information. Couldn’t they be sued for shouting “fire” in a crowded theater? That’s a lie for which one can be indicted.
Every single media outlet has attacked Democracy through their shoddy business practices in the race for profit. The media giants have been playing fast and loose with the truth and accountability for years. This is especially true since 2016.
Let's be careful about censorship, yanking licenses etc. I happen to enjoy living a First Amendment society; however messy and awful it can get.
But, it would be so much fun to lock Murdoch up in, say, Rikers Island, perhaps THE worst prison in America.
Then, put him on the Nightly News with Lester Holt narrated by Sean Hannity, while Murdoch paces behind bars in a striped jumpsuit with what appears to be an overly friendly cellmate.
I think Fox is going to end up paying Dominion voting machines a pile of money when the lawyer dust settles. Money talks. It is illegal although rarely enforced to achieve regime change via seditious actions or speech. Legal regime change happens in the voting booth, not by inciting riots through false speech.
Okay Bill..., you have a listener-audience out there that feeds on this S--t... what're yuh gonna do with them? You think they're gonna change? Nono no give em judge judy or jeanine spear-oh. C'mon. They want that bubble headed bleach blond on the evening news.. yeah!!! the one with all the cleavage too.
But wait! I have an idea! This audience you describe loves conspiracies - which are fantasies, right? And they want the "bubble headed bleach blonde with cleavage", right?
Someone should create a new channel that is a sci-fi version of Faux News! What Fox needs is competition. What if this show had crazier stories like "live from Uranus: an alien invasion led by Hunter Biden"! The presenters could look like a cross between Raquel Welch and Pamela Anderson in their prime. Advertisers would flee Fox to sign on with the new station and Rupert would have to shut Tucker down.
The new channel just has to be crazier...could it work?
Part of the issue with Fox and it’s blathering of BS and right wing propaganda has to do with the the Fairness Doctrine. The Fairness Doctrine has been around since 1947 but was not a law, only a policy of the FCC. However Congress voted to codify it in 1987 but Reagan vetoed it.
The Fairness Doctrine basically says that broadcast media must provide both sides of a story. However the Fairness Doctrine does not apply to cable, (or internet, and satellite services) which are considered to be services bought by consumers. That being the case there is a “perception” (not sure if “perception” is the right word) that the Fairness Doctrine cannot be applied constitutionally to cable service providers.
Snopes wrote regarding ‘rumors’ that the failure of Fairness Doctrine to be codified into law allowed Fox to exist was not exactly accurate true: “The FCC would, in all likelihood, have been restricted to regulating the content of public broadcasters, leaving Fox News to its own devices, like hundreds of other cable and satellite channels,"
Thus “Fair and Balanced” is a marketing tool and not the truth, but truth is not required when it comes to cable tv (Fox news).
While many of us would love to see Fox taken down for lying or have some law about what is true vs the fantasies they provide as being truth apply, I’m guessing there is no law to prevent them “entertaining” their audience with lies. Perhaps the Dominion Lawsuit is an avenue that could bring Fox to it’s knees, but there are others already in place that have picked up the mantle to “entertain” their audiences with lies and propaganda.
——
I believe what I have written is accurate but am open to others correction(s) should anything I’ve written needs correction to be accurate.
I believe you are accurate. The OTA vs Cable dynamic is at the core of this. But that begs other questions. Attempting to apply the Fairness Doctrine to Fox could be a tool to at least achieve a name change. Why couldn't the FCC require that Fox remove the word "News" from its name? "News" implies accurate reporting - not opinionating and throwing pasta at the wall.
They could call it Fox Fakers or Fox Fantasies or Fox Funnies or Fox Fictions or Fox...use your imagination.
This seems to be the end result of unregulated capitalism. Capitalism = exploitation. Profit is king (or queen) and all is acceptable if it's done for business.
It's all about $$$$$$! They have no shame and they have no logic.
In 2010, I stayed at a friend's house and her husband had FNC loudly on TV from when he got up until he went to bed. It was not to be turned off, even when no one was in the room. It was as if it was his life's blood.
"Fox have deliberately destabilized the United States, undermined our democracy, made huge profits by spewing disinformation, and given substantial aid and comfort to foreign enemies"
Kat, all perfectly legal in the United States. Not a single law prevents Fox from doing anything it wants.
Like Mike just said because corporations and wealthy folks have protections. Can you imagine where you and I would be right now had we been caught having 1 classified doc in our homes?
Huh? How in the world would we get classified documents? Trying to draw analogies between Government officials and the everyday American is apples and oranges arguing.
Disagreements are fine, and we should have robust debates about issues and policies. I don't think Democrats have all the right answers, and am happy to listen to alternataive views when they are based in reality. However, repeatedly lying to the public (as Fox and other right-wing outlets do) and deliberately manipulating Americans with Hitlerian propaganda tactics seems, to me, beyond the protections of the First Amendment when it creates a clear and present danger to national security.
That's how they get away with it, for sure, Derek. Apparently in Canada, "Fox must label its broadcast 'for entertainment purposes.'” Now if we here in the States could compel them to do the same by having a running label for the entirety of their shows...
You know, Gigi, I can't understand how our "legitimate" news organizations countenance Faux getting away with it. Seems the rules should be the same for both.
Faux tries to play it both ways, claiming to be "fair and balanced" when it suits them and "only kidding" when being held accountable. Sort of like Sydney Powell claiming that no reasonable person would believe her lies about Dominion, but the judge wasn't buying it.
The Fox situation is mind boggling. I am wondering why it is only Dominion fighting this fight. Certainly there are other entities that could sue Fox for defamation. And where is the FCC in all this? Are there no standards of broadcasting left at all? Unbelievable.
But equally upsetting to me is the child care issue. The Infrastructure Bill requirement will "leave the establishment of more childcare facilities in the hands of private companies, thus avoiding another round of fights..." Well screw that.
Isn't it long past time for child care to be a human right in the richest damned nation in the history of humanity. It's beyond stupid. Not funding child care is holding back our country. It is handicapping us in terms of global competitiveness.
Republicans are supposed to be pro business and pro family. Why are they holding back businesses from employing mothers? The biggest nightmare for families with young children is that today's economy REQUIRES two working adults. But we don't provide the means for that to happen.
Hello GQP. Stop your stupid culture wars and help out your constituents.
How Much Governments Spend on Child Care for Toddlers
Annual public spending per child on early childhood care.
Sorry, I couldn't align the numbers with countries. But the money is in the same order as the country names. Just scroll down. We are primitive, stupid numbskulls.
I share your outrage. When my daughters were small, my entire paycheck went to childcare. Please fix me if I’m wrong, but I believe the GOP want their idea of “traditional” family ie 1960’s sitcom mode. Keep women at home with the kiddos and daddy will bring home the bacon. (Calling a grown woman “Mother” is a perfect example! While my gift to be a mom is the best, that’s not the sum total of who I am.). They blame the loss of family values, the rise in divorce rate, abortion, birth control, and women in the workplace as the reason we have issues in our society. *Sigh*. I’d love to be wrong, but I fear there’s at least some truth to this.
I think you have a clear understanding of the GQP motivation. Not all of them, of course. But there are millions of Republicans who really want to take us back in time - where women and "others" knew their place. I wake up and read about them and I think I have time traveled. Is it really 2023? Or 1923?
I believe they want this too. Yet their party created the need for dual family incomes with no outside affordable childcare options. It's as if they like to keep everyone mad and sad but never offer any solutions... except the impossible "Leave it to Beaver" model. Young adults blame themselves for not succeeding in a broken system. Republicans are off the hook. No one notices that they are not offering any viable solutions. Smoke and Mirrors.
Here is what the wing nuts don't get. We can vote out of office a politician if they are doing a bad job. But we are powerless to rid a company of a CEO or other powerful executive who hurts the common good.
We are putting things like child care, healthcare and prisons in the hands of profiteering robber barons. And the people just suffer while they get richer.
The First Amendment prevents the Government from acting against liars, like those who appear every day on Fox, unless their lies are causing damage to others. That's why Dominion's litigtion agains Fox is a civil, and not a criminal, matter. But the other side of the equation is that there has to be an educated population to recognize lies for what they are. That is why the anti-democratic forces in this country are attacking public education, Florida's governor being a prime example, so that the public cannot learn to distinguish between lies and truths.
This comment is a day late so idk if anyone will see it.
Regarding "And will their hordes of devoted followers actually hear any of that???"
I didn't read this column yesterday because I spent about 7 hours attending our county Board of Supervisors meeting here in Kevin McCarthy's area. The primary subject was a final decision on our election processes, integrity, etc which has been an ever increasing hysterical, conspiratorial, barely decent yelling match for over a year. (We have ZERO integrity issues but tremendous efficiency issues after many decades of good old boy conservatism policies that refused to fund any improvements in over 30 years, even while our voting base increased by 35% in just the last ten years.)
Based on the 2 minute comments by each of my numerous local "horde" members, they are certainly very aware of the Dominion and Fox case. And they used it to try to get yet another extension of a Board vote to commit to moving forward.
Because their understanding of what it is about is this: Fox is being railroaded by Dominion for $$$$$, but what is *really* going to happen soon is that Fox will be providing ALL the evidence of voter fraud and then something something Dominion will go to jail (or possibly Gitmo, who knows?) and then Biden will be held responsible, Democrats will all be arrested and therefore we should NOT vote today until all of the above happens. [They want no electronics in elections at all. Registration records kept in rolodexes, paper ballots hand counted on election night, in person voting only for 12 hours on election day, etc...never mind state laws or that we have close to 500k voters. 🙄] Some of these folks are the cranks you expect. But when community leaders, pastors, former elected officials, business owners, etc are all espousing the same nonsense, I have zero confidence that this information about Fox's willful lies will ever be understood by the people who need to understand.
I think the base are the unwitting ones. We are stressed, angry and fed up because we knew it from the beginning, or at minimum when tfg🤡 was complaining about his inaugural turnout, or maybe the nasty inaugural speech, or maybe hiring a crowd when he came down the elevator...I'm becoming nauseous so I will stop now.
They admit to their lies. They admit to sabotaging their opponent. How can this not be illegal? And will their hordes of devoted followers actually hear any of that???? Thanks, Professor, for the daily injection of truth in this mess. I’m grateful to you.
"They admit their lies". How can this not be illegal?
Almost nothing a corporation in the United States does is illegal. Corporations are pretty much free to do whatever they want, where ever they want, however they want to whomever they want. Not only are there no laws burdening Corporations BUT Corporations are also free from liability in almost all cases where they infringe on the rights of people, nature, or any rights of anything. Corporations, for example, are able to:
Allow massive toxic waste emission due to poor maintenance leading to train derailment.
Dump toxic waste into minority neighborhoods.
Hire all white workforces (which is the case even today in most corporations).
Fire workers "at will".
Lie to workers.
Lie about the products they produce.
Destroy the environmental ecology of water and air.
Clear cut trees "at will".
Really, there is nothing a corporation cannot do in this "great" country. Fox News is no different.
If you want to do whatever you want, incorporate and get started!!
Right here in the good ole USA!!
The probability that this Dominion lawsuit actually wins any damages? Not large.
Sorry, but while corporations get away with much, they are not immune or above the law. It is difficult to bring them to book, but not impossible. And with the Biden administration in the White House, protections for labor and the environment are being enforced again. Not as quickly or as much as I’d like, but corporations are being held to account. And private parties are holding them to account. In my own case, I represent employees who have suffered discrimination and retaliation at the hands of their employers. I and my colleagues fight large companies all the time. Frequently, we win. So my suggestion is to work to get Democrats elected at all levels, and then work to get good legislation passed and enforced. It will be more difficult and less immediately satisfying in the short run, but more productive in the end.
Jon,
I agree with "It is difficult to bring them to book, but not impossible."
That statement does not conflict with what I wrote as far as I can tell.
I would add: The reality of most Americans is that if a Corporation does something that should be illegal, like lie about Dominion voting machines, it is a VERY daunting and expensive process to hold them to account IF it is possible at all.
Practically speaking, it is impossible for most people to stop a corporation from doing anything at all.
And, Norfolk Southern knows this and is playing it very well.
Also, thanks for your work and recommendations. I do only vote straight Democratic ticket. I wish I had the faith in those folks you do, but, I still vote like you do.
I know guys like you do good work. But, I also know people who have attempted to take a corporation to court and it is daunting in the extreme.
Steven Donziger
You are correct, but remember the tobacco fight? The corporations had 3,000 lawyers I believe against 30 or so government. Conservatives fight against white collar law enforcement.
And, in the end, who won the fight over tobacco? The picture of a few, often young, government lawyers going up against myriad corporate suits has been common since the New Deal. Keep the faith!
Thanks for your work Jon. Can you find a way to file a class action against Faux?
Jon,
Who won over the fight about tobacco?
Well, my own father died from lung cancer, caused by smoking 2.5 packs a day for most of his life, so you tell me.
btw: He got nothing from any lawsuit. Zero. He was dead.
Mike, it sounds as if you are so far down the cynicism scale that you can't even ask "how can we apply what we learned to these other corporation misdeeds". I'm sorry about your father. My father died early of diseases caused by smoking too, and his second-hand smoke gave my mother terminal lung cancer. Because I had asthma, I spent a lot of time out of my own home when I was growing up.
But that lawsuit and its outcomes made it possible for me to go out to public places again, to be a part of society. The outcomes of that lawsuit are protecting my children and grandchildren from other people's smoke and from the lies of advertisers. Yep, bringing these legal cases isn't easy, but it won't happen at all if we give up because it's hard. Or because it takes time. It's becoming easier to gain ground against corporate actions that harm us or our environment. And the more we do it, the more success we'll have.
My dad too, only it was six packs of Camels a day. Rarely saw him without a cig in his mouth. No clue that they were killing him.
My father was a similar smoker. He also died from lung cancer. He knew for decades that it was a terrible choice to smoke. But he did it anyway. I have no sympathy for him or anyone else who is so stupid as to smoke. Blaming "addictive additives" is just a convenient excuse. Lots of people quit smoking with no adverse effects.
Yes they did, only to the credit of an insider. Corporate America learned from that and I really doubt it might happen again. Just look at the fossil fuel industry. We have the goods on them now. With the Lewis Powell memo, corporate America has the strategy. With Buchanan and Friedman they have the way. I would love to have faith, but the white collar crime enforcement has been hollowed out to such an extent that these folks with their billions and legion of attorneys stay miles ahead of the government now. While they use the strategy that the Kochs started doing where they not only elect those that support them, but that will work to change the law to lock in what they want. It is a multiprong strategy that started at the local level and is now inside the federal level.
Smokers, the real victims won nothing Jon. *edit in - I should have added that 'smokers and those who love them won nothing.' The many who might 'sniffle up their sleeves' proclaiming quite simply that 'they should just quit' know nothing - zero about the complexities of addiction ! As has been opined here in other words regards corporations, "hit them in the pocket"... that's where the rubber really meets the road and would have the greatest effect on such single minded focused beasts. If all smokers just 'simply' quit, tobacco companies would've gone bankrupt.
Cigarettes have a huge social cost and should be banned. Of course, the states and feds don't want to give up all the tax revenue. And Europe and Asia are still huge customers.
Too many people want to pretend that cigs are so addictive that users just can't quit. That is simply not true. Of course they can quit if they really want to. But, like my father, they really do not want to quit. After 70 years of smoking he finally got lung cancer and multiple other smoking related health issues. 3-4 packs a day, 3 martinis every evening and no exercise limited him to 83 years. Take away the cigs and he probably would have hit 100.
Jon
It's my hope that after these malicious manipulations are fully exposed, no Republican can ever win an election for dog catcher.
My hope, too, but I'm not going to hold my breath. I don't know that the people that watch Faux Noise or either of those other two tabloid TV rags will EVER hear the truth about all the BS.
And now we have the rise of Christian Nationalism which enforces a fascistic government with a touch of religion thrown in. Who dares to challenge religious beliefs? Not the Supreme Court.
Check out Faithful America. They are an ecumenical group challenging both Christian Nationalism and White Supremacy. I found their message very hopeful. The right-wingers don't own the faith field.
The damage to our nation has been done by citizens and their aquaintences. Our military has stayed out of it. Whatever damage has been wrought upon Dominion needs to be decided in court, and we would best stay out of it. Certainly the lies are despicable, and like tobacco, they were cleverly sold. But! We bought into them. Smoking was your choice, just like believinmg the slick lies. Being a religious fanatic is a choice. Being gay is a choice. being transG is s choice. Driving OUI is a choice. Being Black is not a choice. We need to quit coddling stuff that is a "choice".. that's the driver in all of this.. "choice". So..., if you chose to defame Dominion..,. you pay the price.
This is true, Karen. My own brother got very mad at me this morning and sent me a biting response when I simply asked him if he'd been keeping up with the Rupert Murdoch story. I sent him the link to Heather's column in case he wasn't reading about it from other sources. He must have it judging from his extreme reaction. He doesn't want to admit any fault by that network.
It’s much worse than that. They don’t want the truth. They want lies and find them wherever they can. FNC knows that if it doesn’t deliver the lies their viewers want, their viewers will watch something else.
It is my hope that we can have a healthy 2 party system in this Democracy.
Keep that thought. It probably won't happen but it's a good one!
And these are public corporations--so ultimately SHAREHOLDERS need to pressure these organizations, to hold them accountable. Look at your investment funds and make your expectations as a shareholder known. At the end of the day, people will make the difference, but we have to unite and maintain consistent pressure on companies and government representatives to right this horrible situation.
What would incentive shareholders to put human life before dividends?
AYSM..shareholders holding "them" accountable? Just sell the stock short and be done with "them". They'll still pocket a $6M bonus
Jon, Mike's statement is a lament, not a challenge, nor a surrender. He is not wearing rose tinted glasses by his statement; they are facts of life an honest, humble attorney should well recognize rather than refute. I've 'been there - done that' such battles; it's daunting under the best circumstances armed even with facts in evidence and a battery of crack attorneys.
Jon, please enlighten me: How do we get Democrats elected to the Supreme Court? It's SCOTUS that's both underwriting corporate power and hamstringing "the people" to do anything about it. I'm glad that you're winning battles for your clients, but your victories are here and there, while the scope of SCOTUS is the whole country.
We don't. The Supreme Court is appointed not elected. The quickest way to reform is to elect a Democrat in 2024 (Joe Biden or someone else if he does not run), and increase the number of Democrats in the Senate (given the 2024 senatorial map, difficult but not impossible given how the Republicans are going), then do away with the filibuster and increase the size of the Court from 9 to 13 members--which Congress and the President can do. Then the President would have enough appointments to override the reactionary majority that's on the court presently.
That was my point: the makeup of the SCOTUS is going to take plenty of time and effort to change. Your "quickest way to reform" boils down to "wave a wand and wish real hard."
Wishing for a Democratic victory in 2024 is NOT what Jon Margolis and others, including me, are saying. Instead, each of us has to become an election activist by actively supporting good candidates at local, state, and federal levels with our work, wisdom, and donations if we can. Even a few dollars a month, or 20 Postcards to Voters every week or month, or joining a local campaign can make the difference.
If you really want a Democratic president in 2024, then get active with your local Indivisible group, local Democratic party, or other grassroots campaign group.
Touche ~
A dream
Jon, thank you for this bit of hope in your words and work. Jay
This is encouraging. Thank you.
Mike S...It's all too evident that in this country, corporations have far more rights than any citizen. Too sad for words. I can't hit the "heart" on your comment...but you are 100% correct.
Corporations. Gotta love 'em with the "heart"!
Corporations truly are the "heart" of America! Ask any Republican getting campaign donations from any corporation.
btw: Citizen's United gave Corporations MORE rights, in general, than you and I have.
But, I am sure the guys on the Supreme Court that ruled on that case were paid off quite handsomely, and legally, by? CORPORATIONS.
Which, of course, is legal!!
:-)
Elite establishment getting their campaigns funded by Corporations is non-partisan... sadly.
😨😢😬
Scalia wasn't called the 'junket king' for nothing.
Gimme a rocket launcher....click..snap.. WHOOOshhhh..>>right thru the bedrooom window.
Oh you think corporations should be regulated? What are you? Socialist. Tsk tsk.
Harvey, Fox News would say I am a communist, which, is not true, but entirely legal for them to broadcast. Then, if anyone criticizes Fox for lying, Fox will start crying about limiting their "free speech" as if the first amendment applies to private entities.
And? Their dumb and dumber audience "believes" it all. Like kittens lapping up warm milk.
I think that the audience for BS is rooted in the belief that MSM is not trustworthy, propagated by those who hate being exposed, for bad actors always rationalize what they do as being misrepresented by honest journalists. And sources like FN will give them a megaphone and an audience that lacks any critical thinking.
Harvey,
"I think that the audience for BS is rooted in the belief that MSM is not trustworthy"
I wish that is what I thought Harvey. You are a kind interpreter.
I think that the audience for BS is rooted in racism, hate and a desire to feel superior.
I would add that underneath all of that is fear. They are like frightened kittens - hissing, lashing out and puffing themselves up to appear larger than they actually are. If they weren't so dangerous in their ignorance,, they would be amusing.
Mike, I agree with you. Because the MSM does not confirm their prejudice they distrust them and cling to any source that does. FN was terrified of losing audience to another source of BS so as is the American way profits over people and in this case profit over country.
That’s an insult to kittens. 😊
lol George !
Somewhere, there is a mid-ground. We are sorely in need of finding it. Much of the European Union has done just that, commendably.
Middle ground? How does one find middle ground with the flood of BS that flows from FN?
I am replying to the comment that regulating business means one is called a socialist/communist. Not at all. I just might mean sanity.
🤣🤣🤣
And Americans love to shop and shop and shop. Americans' addiction to over consumption has given rise to these Corporations who in turn abused their consumers, the environment and common decency.
Let's not get too into the victim here. Which Corporations are you and me and others continuing to purchase from that you know are engaging in all manner of harmful practices? How many Americans own stock in these Corporations? How many Americans investigate a Corporation before they purchase from them?
"Which Corporations are you and me and others continuing to purchase from that you know are engaging in all manner of harmful practices?"
GUILTY as charged Barbara. I filled up my tank with gasoline yesterday. I bought Oatmeal too (which requires huge swaths of cleared land to produce). I bought a chicken too (which was raised in horrific circumstances).
Point very well taken.
However, I do limit what I buy compared to the average American. I do work to reforest areas of my state. I do work to limit (I cannot eliminate) logging.
But, I have to eat. I have to drive because our entire society was built up around that long before I was born.
I guess I COULD become Amish. But? Then? I would have to buy some forested area and cut every last tree to turn it into a farm. Because, existing farms are few and far between and hard to beat the Amish land men to.
Plus, if I became Amish I would not be able to listen to NPR anymore.
:-)
I do too Mike. There are many of us who have been engaging in what I call mindful consumption for years. I don't use Amazon, nor shop at Walmart. But that's just me.
Let's escape from over-personalizing the topic for a minute and look at the larger picture. Americans, through their purchasing practices, have been blindly supporting Corporate policies for years.
There are still very rural areas where the choice is either Walmart or Hannaford or "BigBox" or drive an hour (or more) to get to a locally owned specialty store that sells the item needed. Choice, in less populous areas, is limited.
During the season we purchase from local farmer's markets; during the winter we shop at the local food coop. BUT and it's a big but: we are retired and comfortably off.
In this area such is not necessarily the case for far too many folks and sometimes people just have to shop where their money goes the furthest--regardless of where they would LIKE to put their dollars. Also...juggling multiple low paying jobs to make ends meet, leaves little time for meal prep. Cooking from scratch is becoming a lost art due to time constraints
I am not criticizing where people shop TL. You missed my point.
Most - the majority do not Barb, and I would charge unwittingly. There's an awful lot of dark arts, science, tech, and psychology feverishly at work - both obvious and behind the curtains, arrayed against those of us of good conscience and intent. For instance, some years ago while still able to work, I was often conscious of investment choices for 401k's, reasoning that was important for my family and I later down the road I now find myself at. My 'guy' was and still is very big on oil, which just like land - can't be created nor conjured into existence. When I delved into studying it, I made some explosive, soul crushing discoveries. To cite just one, the California Teachers Association Retirement fund was heavily invested in Russian oil companies. Think about that for just a bit.... Lakes of oil were found within / under Russian controlled territories. Russia joined hands with the middle east oil cartels / countries and conspired along with many of them, in and outside the middle east. A conflict for hearts, minds, and souls was raging within Russia and it's satellites for control of the masses... why I asked myself. Lots of dots connect over time. Aside from all this, not because the author has anything in common with you or I, but just for the enlightenment of it, I highly recommend reading the book "The Ranch Papers: A California Memoir" by Jane Hollister Wheelwright. Thanks for all you contribute here Barb ~
There's a move here in Oregon in the legislature to divest the PERS fund from big oil. I doubt it will happen, but some people are making an effort. This whole thread has put me into a rather cynical mood as to what we can to do to save the planet.
WOW! "The California Teachers Association Retirement fund was heavily invested in Russian oil companies." Does this refer to the CalRTA or to CalSTRS?
Thank You.
Agree.
I grew up in Elkhart County, Indiana, where we had plenty of Amish. Some adhered strictly to the old ways and had buggies, etc. Some were not as strict and had cars, but they were always a dark color. Some also had very successful enterprises like restaurants and places you could tour. My father stopped going to the big restaurant nearby because of case where a wife took off and was brought back and he wasn't going to support criminals. Of course, he voted R all his life (except for the single vote for FDR in 1930) and listened to Rush. I don't know what he would think about the current R criminal enterprise and the death star crime family.
: ) Very good, Mike!!
And, which of these corporations are in our mutual funds and 401K accounts?
yup. Exactly
We try to do this as best we can. We can't do anything about pension fund investments, but we can do something about where and what we buy and we try to keep it local as much as possible. It is much easier to do now that we are retired because we can live in jeans and sweatshirts and no, can't do anything about where those come from, but we do not buy clothes very often. The outdoor Saturday Market starts this Saturday....maybe, as it snowing as I type this, and we support local farmers, preferably those who are organic and have pastured animals, local food, etc. We have solar panels on the roof and a Prius Prime (and yes, I know the problem with the batteries), and have a garden and grow some of our own food. We avoid Amazon like the plague unless we have no other choice and we buy our books from the famous Portland book store, Powell's. So it isn't possible to avoid all corporations, but it is possible not to be thoughtless consumers, buying what we do not need.
This is an interesting issue. It is the policies of many corporations that need to be regulated. Take anti-trust actions, for example. Look at the free speech issues that treat corporations as persons and give them even more power in our society far more than us as humble individuals. The wealth, material wealth, of this country seems to me to be built on consumerism and capitalism. Think of all the “things” that make our lives better and more enjoyable. The philosophical issues regarding materialism would be a deep dive for us here in the comment section. These are my thoughts this morning.
What’s worse, corporations exercise their “free speech” — which often is for something to our detriment — using the money we spent with them.
I would say “free speech“ because that’s the rationale that the US Supreme Court used to allow corporations to spend virtually any amount of money on political campaigns, which affects every aspect of our lives. Therefore regulation of these companies is far more important than them using the money we pay them for goods and services we want. Businesses also do benefit society by employing people, and providing goods and services we want. Regulation, therefore, is the missing element. Start with anti-trust actions, support for unions, and good tax policy.
That is not to say that there is a place for boycotting or protest.
The Murdochs get money from their advertisers--not directly from their viewers (other than the My Pillow guy who is also an advertiser.) The only way to get to the Murdochs is to make their advertisers leave in droves. Apparently that is best done by putting pressure on the online ad exchanges that broker ads on Fox and the other MAGA outlets.
https://www.npr.org/2022/06/09/1103690822/group-aiming-to-defund-disinformation-tries-to-drain-fox-news-of-online-advertis
Follow the money. Maybe we can make it so that the My Pillow Guy and Trump and his NTFs are the only ones advertising on Fox and the other Faux News channels and outlets including YouTube and Facebook and Mastodon and.....the possible exception being Twitter.
Advertisers want viewers. Advertisers want proof people are subscribing to/reading the publication. Through subscriptions and counting clicks on any article publications show the advertisers that people will see their ads. Then the advertisers pay the publication. It's a symbiotic relationship.
The point is that there is a middle man between the advertisers and the media conglomerates like Fox that deals with the bookings of online ads. General Mills does not call Fox directly. The relatively small group of online ad exchanges have standards they tout to the advertisers. Pressure can be applied to the exchanges if it is pointed out to them that they are violating their own standards of engagement, for instance not posting ads near content promoting domestic terrorism. That is the pressure point.
If corporations are truly to be treated as "citizens" under Citizens United, then they can be sued as citizens as well and they can be held accountable for their actions. I don't understand why this argument is not made loudly and strongly. Citizens have responsibilities as well as rights. Hold their feet to the fire for a change.
How can it not be treason? Murdoch, Carlson, Hannity, et al. at Fox have deliberately destabilized the United States, undermined our democracy, made huge profits by spewing disinformation, and given substantial aid and comfort to foreign enemies. And, most in the Republican Party are either ignorant or complicit.
Exactly. Fox has attacked the integrity of our democracy. Their license to broadcast should have been immediately yanked. Murdoch and crew should have been handcuffed. It's beyond ridiculous.
So agree. How is a "news" organization that lies to citizens, for any purpose, be allowed to have free use of limited broadcast airwaves to spread their foul lies?
Who decides what is the "lie"? Sounds like censorship, banning certain media entities etc. And we all know that slippery slope leads to authoritarian governments.
Fox isn’t news, it’s propaganda. For money, not information. Couldn’t they be sued for shouting “fire” in a crowded theater? That’s a lie for which one can be indicted.
I do not believe in alternate facts. Argument and debate? Sure. Lies, no.
You didn't answer my question. Who decides what is a lie?
I knew Fox lied the first time I saw it at BFF’s house. Ban Rupert and we might survive
Unfortunately this perspective results in a huge advantage held by authoritarian government.
In Russia all that is printed is what is in line with Putin. Or else. Strengthening Autocracy.
In America Fox can beat on Biden with lies all day long every day weakening Democracy itself.
Cable.
Murdoch relinquished his Australian citizenship after becoming a US citizen.
Perhaps it's time to revoke that citizenship, rescind the Fox FCC license to operate on our airwaves, and send the Murdochs packing back to Australia.
Every single media outlet has attacked Democracy through their shoddy business practices in the race for profit. The media giants have been playing fast and loose with the truth and accountability for years. This is especially true since 2016.
Let's be careful about censorship, yanking licenses etc. I happen to enjoy living a First Amendment society; however messy and awful it can get.
Agree.
But, it would be so much fun to lock Murdoch up in, say, Rikers Island, perhaps THE worst prison in America.
Then, put him on the Nightly News with Lester Holt narrated by Sean Hannity, while Murdoch paces behind bars in a striped jumpsuit with what appears to be an overly friendly cellmate.
In fact, it would make my whole day.
:-)
That is one of my fantasies, for sure!
IMG, fondest dream, with chump as cellmate
Bill,
I don't think it is illegal to work for regime change right? It is completely legal to make the US Government look stupid all day every day.
Blame the EPA for a railroad car derailment? Totally OK.
😢😤
I think Fox is going to end up paying Dominion voting machines a pile of money when the lawyer dust settles. Money talks. It is illegal although rarely enforced to achieve regime change via seditious actions or speech. Legal regime change happens in the voting booth, not by inciting riots through false speech.
Okay Bill..., you have a listener-audience out there that feeds on this S--t... what're yuh gonna do with them? You think they're gonna change? Nono no give em judge judy or jeanine spear-oh. C'mon. They want that bubble headed bleach blond on the evening news.. yeah!!! the one with all the cleavage too.
Mad, I know, I know.
But wait! I have an idea! This audience you describe loves conspiracies - which are fantasies, right? And they want the "bubble headed bleach blonde with cleavage", right?
Someone should create a new channel that is a sci-fi version of Faux News! What Fox needs is competition. What if this show had crazier stories like "live from Uranus: an alien invasion led by Hunter Biden"! The presenters could look like a cross between Raquel Welch and Pamela Anderson in their prime. Advertisers would flee Fox to sign on with the new station and Rupert would have to shut Tucker down.
The new channel just has to be crazier...could it work?
Bill, it would.
The problem would be getting it on the air, as I'm sure we're not the only ones with the idea. SNL has managed to 'break the code' ,
In America the new business model is “Go ahead, try and catch me. We own the Court, go ahead waste your time and money”
Part of the issue with Fox and it’s blathering of BS and right wing propaganda has to do with the the Fairness Doctrine. The Fairness Doctrine has been around since 1947 but was not a law, only a policy of the FCC. However Congress voted to codify it in 1987 but Reagan vetoed it.
The Fairness Doctrine basically says that broadcast media must provide both sides of a story. However the Fairness Doctrine does not apply to cable, (or internet, and satellite services) which are considered to be services bought by consumers. That being the case there is a “perception” (not sure if “perception” is the right word) that the Fairness Doctrine cannot be applied constitutionally to cable service providers.
Snopes wrote regarding ‘rumors’ that the failure of Fairness Doctrine to be codified into law allowed Fox to exist was not exactly accurate true: “The FCC would, in all likelihood, have been restricted to regulating the content of public broadcasters, leaving Fox News to its own devices, like hundreds of other cable and satellite channels,"
Thus “Fair and Balanced” is a marketing tool and not the truth, but truth is not required when it comes to cable tv (Fox news).
While many of us would love to see Fox taken down for lying or have some law about what is true vs the fantasies they provide as being truth apply, I’m guessing there is no law to prevent them “entertaining” their audience with lies. Perhaps the Dominion Lawsuit is an avenue that could bring Fox to it’s knees, but there are others already in place that have picked up the mantle to “entertain” their audiences with lies and propaganda.
——
I believe what I have written is accurate but am open to others correction(s) should anything I’ve written needs correction to be accurate.
I believe you are accurate. The OTA vs Cable dynamic is at the core of this. But that begs other questions. Attempting to apply the Fairness Doctrine to Fox could be a tool to at least achieve a name change. Why couldn't the FCC require that Fox remove the word "News" from its name? "News" implies accurate reporting - not opinionating and throwing pasta at the wall.
They could call it Fox Fakers or Fox Fantasies or Fox Funnies or Fox Fictions or Fox...use your imagination.
Oooo, I really like "Fox Fantasies".
I would not mind if the Fox house burnt down.
Great post and history.
This seems to be the end result of unregulated capitalism. Capitalism = exploitation. Profit is king (or queen) and all is acceptable if it's done for business.
"Profit" is killing the planet and our grandchildren's future.
It's all about $$$$$$! They have no shame and they have no logic.
In 2010, I stayed at a friend's house and her husband had FNC loudly on TV from when he got up until he went to bed. It was not to be turned off, even when no one was in the room. It was as if it was his life's blood.
"Fox have deliberately destabilized the United States, undermined our democracy, made huge profits by spewing disinformation, and given substantial aid and comfort to foreign enemies"
Kat, all perfectly legal in the United States. Not a single law prevents Fox from doing anything it wants.
Like Mike just said because corporations and wealthy folks have protections. Can you imagine where you and I would be right now had we been caught having 1 classified doc in our homes?
Huh? How in the world would we get classified documents? Trying to draw analogies between Government officials and the everyday American is apples and oranges arguing.
I kind of agree Barbara but I do think Marj’s larger point was David and Goliath in general.
We are not Goliath, corporations are, and we are not likely to have David’s good luck
Moreover, they’re still doing it!!
At least revoke his citizenship.
Excellent idea.
Let's not get in the habit of throwing the media into prison or persecuting those we vehemently disagree with.
Disagreements are fine, and we should have robust debates about issues and policies. I don't think Democrats have all the right answers, and am happy to listen to alternataive views when they are based in reality. However, repeatedly lying to the public (as Fox and other right-wing outlets do) and deliberately manipulating Americans with Hitlerian propaganda tactics seems, to me, beyond the protections of the First Amendment when it creates a clear and present danger to national security.
We are now in the habit of disregarding facts to serve the forces of profit and power
And Americans are now in the habit of disregarding anything that challenges their bubble world.
Bubble World.
Great title for your new YouTube channel!!
Seriously.
Just this ONE time! Please??
😉
“That’s entertainment!”
That's how they get away with it, for sure, Derek. Apparently in Canada, "Fox must label its broadcast 'for entertainment purposes.'” Now if we here in the States could compel them to do the same by having a running label for the entirety of their shows...
.... "The Surgeon General has determined that believing Fox "News" may be harmful to your physical, mental, and moral health"....
Take away Murdochs’ money and citizenship.
Gigi, that has been my fervent wish for many years.
You know, Gigi, I can't understand how our "legitimate" news organizations countenance Faux getting away with it. Seems the rules should be the same for both.
Faux tries to play it both ways, claiming to be "fair and balanced" when it suits them and "only kidding" when being held accountable. Sort of like Sydney Powell claiming that no reasonable person would believe her lies about Dominion, but the judge wasn't buying it.
Hear hear, Gigi!
A fate worse than death.
Lynell, interesting. “For Entertainment ONLY”. Placing Fox News in the same box with Survivor and Big Brother
Trumper says, “I heard it on Fox News”
Rational person says “Oh !! Did Tucker stab Sean in the back today to protect his time slot? Laura must feel left out, she’s used up her immunities”
Yep!
The Fox situation is mind boggling. I am wondering why it is only Dominion fighting this fight. Certainly there are other entities that could sue Fox for defamation. And where is the FCC in all this? Are there no standards of broadcasting left at all? Unbelievable.
But equally upsetting to me is the child care issue. The Infrastructure Bill requirement will "leave the establishment of more childcare facilities in the hands of private companies, thus avoiding another round of fights..." Well screw that.
Isn't it long past time for child care to be a human right in the richest damned nation in the history of humanity. It's beyond stupid. Not funding child care is holding back our country. It is handicapping us in terms of global competitiveness.
Republicans are supposed to be pro business and pro family. Why are they holding back businesses from employing mothers? The biggest nightmare for families with young children is that today's economy REQUIRES two working adults. But we don't provide the means for that to happen.
Hello GQP. Stop your stupid culture wars and help out your constituents.
How Much Governments Spend on Child Care for Toddlers
Annual public spending per child on early childhood care.
Sorry, I couldn't align the numbers with countries. But the money is in the same order as the country names. Just scroll down. We are primitive, stupid numbskulls.
Norway
Iceland
Finland
Denmark
Germany
Sweden
O.E.C.D. average
Austria
Slovenia
New Zealand
Spain
Chile
Lithuania
Australia
Hungary
Israel
United States
$29,726
24,427
23,353
23,140
18,656
18,010
14,436
12,864
11,664
10,349
9,084
8,450
8,184
8,088
7,222
3,327
500
I share your outrage. When my daughters were small, my entire paycheck went to childcare. Please fix me if I’m wrong, but I believe the GOP want their idea of “traditional” family ie 1960’s sitcom mode. Keep women at home with the kiddos and daddy will bring home the bacon. (Calling a grown woman “Mother” is a perfect example! While my gift to be a mom is the best, that’s not the sum total of who I am.). They blame the loss of family values, the rise in divorce rate, abortion, birth control, and women in the workplace as the reason we have issues in our society. *Sigh*. I’d love to be wrong, but I fear there’s at least some truth to this.
I think you have a clear understanding of the GQP motivation. Not all of them, of course. But there are millions of Republicans who really want to take us back in time - where women and "others" knew their place. I wake up and read about them and I think I have time traveled. Is it really 2023? Or 1923?
I believe they want this too. Yet their party created the need for dual family incomes with no outside affordable childcare options. It's as if they like to keep everyone mad and sad but never offer any solutions... except the impossible "Leave it to Beaver" model. Young adults blame themselves for not succeeding in a broken system. Republicans are off the hook. No one notices that they are not offering any viable solutions. Smoke and Mirrors.
"Are there no standards of broadcasting left at all?"
Bill, ask the parents of the kids killed at Sandy Hook this question. Listen to THEIR answer.
Alex Jones, the guy who convinced half of America that Sandy Hook was a government fake to take your guns? No kids were killed?
Still making big bucks lying.
"In the hands of private companies...." Scares me.
Here is what the wing nuts don't get. We can vote out of office a politician if they are doing a bad job. But we are powerless to rid a company of a CEO or other powerful executive who hurts the common good.
We are putting things like child care, healthcare and prisons in the hands of profiteering robber barons. And the people just suffer while they get richer.
The First Amendment prevents the Government from acting against liars, like those who appear every day on Fox, unless their lies are causing damage to others. That's why Dominion's litigtion agains Fox is a civil, and not a criminal, matter. But the other side of the equation is that there has to be an educated population to recognize lies for what they are. That is why the anti-democratic forces in this country are attacking public education, Florida's governor being a prime example, so that the public cannot learn to distinguish between lies and truths.
Actually. The first amendment only applies to news organizations.
Not propaganda outlets.
This comment is a day late so idk if anyone will see it.
Regarding "And will their hordes of devoted followers actually hear any of that???"
I didn't read this column yesterday because I spent about 7 hours attending our county Board of Supervisors meeting here in Kevin McCarthy's area. The primary subject was a final decision on our election processes, integrity, etc which has been an ever increasing hysterical, conspiratorial, barely decent yelling match for over a year. (We have ZERO integrity issues but tremendous efficiency issues after many decades of good old boy conservatism policies that refused to fund any improvements in over 30 years, even while our voting base increased by 35% in just the last ten years.)
Based on the 2 minute comments by each of my numerous local "horde" members, they are certainly very aware of the Dominion and Fox case. And they used it to try to get yet another extension of a Board vote to commit to moving forward.
Because their understanding of what it is about is this: Fox is being railroaded by Dominion for $$$$$, but what is *really* going to happen soon is that Fox will be providing ALL the evidence of voter fraud and then something something Dominion will go to jail (or possibly Gitmo, who knows?) and then Biden will be held responsible, Democrats will all be arrested and therefore we should NOT vote today until all of the above happens. [They want no electronics in elections at all. Registration records kept in rolodexes, paper ballots hand counted on election night, in person voting only for 12 hours on election day, etc...never mind state laws or that we have close to 500k voters. 🙄] Some of these folks are the cranks you expect. But when community leaders, pastors, former elected officials, business owners, etc are all espousing the same nonsense, I have zero confidence that this information about Fox's willful lies will ever be understood by the people who need to understand.
Sadly, likely true for many ostriches in the sand voters.
Ditto.
But that’s the part they sold to Disney.
I knew it. We’re all unwitting extras in a modern remake of 1984.
I think the base are the unwitting ones. We are stressed, angry and fed up because we knew it from the beginning, or at minimum when tfg🤡 was complaining about his inaugural turnout, or maybe the nasty inaugural speech, or maybe hiring a crowd when he came down the elevator...I'm becoming nauseous so I will stop now.