Quite the contrast Lt Col Vindman is to the TFG’s presidency as Col Oliver North was to the Regan presidency.
Thank you Col Vindman for reminding us that honesty, integrity, character, decency, and the rule of law, all matter in a democracy. Thank you for demonstrating the moral courage, at great personal and professional risk and sacrifi…
Quite the contrast Lt Col Vindman is to the TFG’s presidency as Col Oliver North was to the Regan presidency.
Thank you Col Vindman for reminding us that honesty, integrity, character, decency, and the rule of law, all matter in a democracy. Thank you for demonstrating the moral courage, at great personal and professional risk and sacrifice. Robert Kennedy said , "Moral courage is a rarer commodity than bravery in battle or great intelligence. Yet it is the one essential, vital quality for those who seek to change the world which yields most painfully to change."
Thank you Col Vindman for inspiring us through your example and sacrifice, and recalling us of our duties as American citizens.
I think what was done to this honest and courageous man by TFG was the tipping point to the fall of our democracy. I couldn’t believe this could happen here. This United States Colonel with immense integrity who truly believes that “right matters” and stood up to protect our democracy is retaliated against and removed from his position. As well as his brother who wasn’t even involved. This incident solidified my suspicions and fears that we had a tinpot dictator/ mob boss as our president. And it just got worse from there.
Russian scholar Nancy Reisman calls the TFG’s style of governing “ THUG- OCRACY”. IMHO this label is designed to fit him like a correctional orange leisure suit.
Remember Sadam being pulled out of the Dirt, that spider hole in dirty pajamas, long hair, bearded and haggard? The regular Iraq’s so relieved of decades of brutal oppression, fear and anxiety, and the Sunni minority humbled. Could you feel the healing begin in that moment?
I hope we get to see TFG in handcuffs, Orange jumpsuit, pale, ( no spray tan service in jail, no ridiculous tupe’, and no baggie suit and dumb 40 inch red tie. “Fictional successful businessman DJT”, is a mythical creation, he is not real, he’s been “created” like the Marlboro Man, he is only a marketing creation. And that probably makes him even more dangerous.
We need this reality to happen. How many bomb threats have occurred at HBCU’s this week? How many neo Nazi groups are gathering and menacing in broad day light around the country? How many QOP’s are attacking the idea of a black woman on the Supreme Court before it has even happened? How many QOP officials Aren’t saying anything about TFG’s comments calling for violence in the streets of our cities?
Until TFG is charged and found guilty by a jury of his peers, the threat to decency, the rule of law, and democracy is real.
I'm concerned that these militia groups are infiltrating everywhere across this country. I was disturbed to read that Vermont is 8th in the nation for possession of guns and I've read that there are at least 4 of these groups living in the state "off the grid", 200 of whom chartered a bus to invade the Capital on 1/6/21. When are we going to hear that armed intimidation of voters is against the law and put these people away! There HAS to be accountability!
if only we could truly learn from history. However if we don’t read it and we don’t teach it and we ban books, that will be difficult to do. Fortunately so far that is a desperate minority. We need to let our voices be heard, loud and strong, if we are to continue to live in a free and healthy society.
You are right, and right to be concerned about these militia groups, but from what we have learned in Michigan (attack on our Capitol, plan to kidnap our amazing Governor), the appropriate federal agencies were and are infiltrating the infiltraters. The January 6 attempted coup turned out to be a perfect round up of the baddest. The investigation into that, and into tRump's treasonous role in it, is critical for mapping out the lairs of all these Brown Shirts so when indictments are imminent, the king WILL go down, but the country won't.
We all should be concerned about this. These groups are taught/trained (Turner diaries) to operate independently like independent cells with decentralized leadership. Sound familiar?
If only the feds worked as hard to stop domestic terrorists as international ones, like the head of ISIS. It should be a top priority. Jail time is the best deterrent.
All of us here...every single one of us here...Every single American Citizen who loves America, who loves all those who protect America at the expense of their own life MUST find a way to contribute abundantly to Colonel Alexander Vindman directly...we must honor those who have, in the face of personal adversity, numerous attacks upon themselves and family members and who continue to honor their promise that, "...here right matters..."
Please! Let us all do all we can to financially contribute DIRECTLY to Colonel Vindman TODAY RIGHT NOW!
PLEASE!
Make sure Colonel Vindman truly knows the astounding amount of love we have for him...
that he knows and trusts in how many Americans have taken the few minutes out of just one of their days to personally do all it takes to give to a small fraction of their time and money to a true self-sacrificing American Patriot.
Let your love of this man inspire you to give to him TODAY...RIGHT NOW...PLEASE!
Thanks, George. If there is an organization that is paying his legal fees, all or in part, I'd donate to them. I'd prefer donating directly to AV. I'll buy the book anyway, but part of that money goes to 3rd parties too.
All of us here...every single one of us here...Every single American Citizen who loves America, who loves all those who protect America at the expense of their own life MUST find a way to contribute abundantly to Colonel Alexander Vindman directly...we must honor those who have, in the face of personal adversity, numerous attacks upon themselves and family members and who continue to honor their promise that, "...here right matters..."
Please! Let us all do all we can to financially contribute DIRECTLY to Colonel Vindman TODAY RIGHT NOW!
PLEASE!
Make sure Colonel Vindman truly knows the astounding amount of love we have for him...
that he knows and trusts in how many Americans have taken the few minutes out of just one of their days to personally do all it takes to give to a small fraction of their time and money to a true self-sacrificing American Patriot.
Let your love of this man inspire you to give to him TODAY...RIGHT NOW...PLEASE!
I hate to be the one to throw ice water on your rosy view of this country and government, but Vindman is far from the first guy things like this have happened to. You could lose him in the crowd if you got them all together - and that's just the ones still alive.
I guess I didn’t articulate very well. I know Vindeman isn’t the first. This case was just so in your face with TFGs ruthless dictator traits on full display that it shook me.
The lionization of Vindman strikes me more as a sign of the rot within the Republicans under Trump. A man just “doing his duty” stands out in bleak contrast to the great majority who fetishized ‘duty’ into servility to Trump. If the full story of Vindman’s coming to the notice of Trump is that he merely expressed uneasiness about the infamous Ukraine call, then this says far more about the inner circle than it does about him.
The decision to throw out both Vindman and his brother in humiliating manner came, no doubt, after a nanosecond of reflection by Trump.
The lawsuit will be buried under a coming avalanche of new stories. But at least for today it stands as an indication that Trump pissed off the wrong guy.
100% agree as to rot within the GOP, under Trump and continuing under FOX news's Tucker Carlson, MTG, Matt Gaetz, Ted Cruz, Josh Hawley, etc.! MLK's oft repeated claim that the arc of history always bends toward justice is admirable but that arc is so long and so often obstructed/detoured that those in most need of justice at the moment will not be around to see/enjoy justice; at least, I fear that is the case. If Vindman is successful in his suit, that arc may be back on track.
This lawsuit comes at a key time, as if the clarion call for Trump to be outed, is marching closer and soon. We are watching in real time his desperation, including his hate for his VP who stood beside him after 1/6. That should be a lesson to the others who have been thrown under the bus, but so far there is still abundant silence. Or at least that brings some hope to the increasingly disillusioning state of our nation.
The benefit of public and televised hearings, especially calling key witnesses, who are courageous and care about and are loyal to country over loyalty to a criminal president cannot be overstated. Yes, we are forever in debt to the heroes in our midst.
Agreed, especially in the case of Trump. How many of those who worked for himk his wife, or his kids while they were in the WH, have had their names and careers ended, mocked, or tarnished, in some case irretrievably?
And how many of those now still Maga-minded, still sticking up for him and/or trying to coverup his malfeasance/dereliction of duty will find themselves defendants in civil or criminal cases?
So far 700 of his "followers" participating in the 01/06/21 have been charged with various felonies and/or misdemeanors. And the investigations are on going.
In the end, some folks are masochists, and all who still support Trump and his acolytes seem to be masochists: they cannot admit they fell for a criminal, made a mistake, so they continue to let themselves be used.
Some of them are focused on some single issue like abortion. Others love the behavior he models....don't like something like masks, so he has given them carte blanche to create havoc and intimidate. The Oregon legislature began its session yesterday and sure enough the anti-mask mob was at the door. Some finally got in citing religious or medical reasons. My feeling is no mask, no entry, period. People do now have to pass through metal detectors.
No idea. The fundies around here are an absolute menace. They will not get a vaccine, mask, keep social distance....nothing and here they are whining and likely lying to get into the Capitol building. God protects them, you know. But the virus doesn't care about religion or politics or anything else except finding a host.
So, you say, this Colonial Vindman's whose self-sacrificing revelations about the blasphemous braggart who IS guilty of destroying American democracy...
So, you say, that same Colonial Vindman who is the truly loved American hero by all those who also love HCR's efforts of educating us about the truth...
So you say, Colonial Vindman's determination to save our Nation can so blithely be cast into the nebulosity of obscurity's fog...
So I say you will find here a vast majority's passionate disputation about your account of Colonial Vindman and
Instead witness such majority's effusiveness about America's brilliant shining star of courageousness that is well beyond the pale of our concomitant American Patriots!
Unfortunately, there are a lot of Americans, still, who "couldn't believe this could happen here". I may be a bit jaded, but I am awaiting the first reports of the sudden and mysterious deaths of past and potential witnesses to the misdeeds of our former democratically elected President. Our time is running out while Trump is still running free.
Well, Judith, if a pollster had asked me before the last election about the need for armed rebellion to "protect liberties", I might have been among the one third, though the liberties I have in mind are not the same ones most of the Jan. 6th crowd are fantasizing about. Poverty, racism, climate change, wealth disparity, abortion, gun violence, healthcare, world peace, etc. all involve "liberties" in one way or another, and if the far-right crazies take up arms in an organized way, someone will need to oppose them. I'm not sure peaceful demonstrations and well-reasoned arguments will be enough to save our country. That said, armed violence is almost inconceivably stupid and selfdefeating, but we Americans are no strangers to it, and I'm afraid it's a real possibility.
All of us here...every single one of us here...Every single American Citizen who loves America, who loves all those who protect America at the expense of their own life MUST find a way to contribute abundantly to Colonel Alexander Vindman directly...we must honor those who have, in the face of personal adversity, numerous attacks upon themselves and family members and who continue to honor their promise that, "...here right matters..."
Please! Let us all do all we can to financially contribute DIRECTLY to Colonel Vindman TODAY RIGHT NOW!
PLEASE!
Make sure Colonel Vindman truly knows the astounding amount of love we have for him...
that he knows and trusts in how many Americans have taken the few minutes out of just one of their days to personally do all it takes to give to a small fraction of their time and money to a true self-sacrificing American Patriot.
Let your love of this man inspire you to give to him TODAY...RIGHT NOW...PLEASE!
All of us here...every single one of us here...Every single American Citizen who loves America, who loves all those who protect America at the expense of their own life MUST find a way to contribute abundantly to Colonel Alexander Vindman directly...we must honor those who have, in the face of personal adversity, numerous attacks upon themselves and family members and who continue to honor their promise that, "...here right matters..."
Please! Let us all do all we can to financially contribute DIRECTLY to Colonel Vindman TODAY RIGHT NOW!
PLEASE!
Make sure Colonel Vindman truly knows the astounding amount of love we have for him...
that he knows and trusts in how many Americans have taken the few minutes out of just one of their days to personally do all it takes to give to a small fraction of their time and money to a true self-sacrificing American Patriot.
Let your love of this man inspire you to give to him TODAY...RIGHT NOW...PLEASE!
"tipping point to the fall of our democracy. " I wasn't aware our Democracy had fallen. Cherry picking any one thing and giving it undue weight in the pantheon of American History is dangerous.
Let us all be quite clear in our rhetoric. I object to the use of the term political crimes or political trials. The U.S. Criminal Code has no distinct category of crimes labeled as “political” crimes. The offenses committed by Trump and others in his circle are simply crimes and covered by various criminal statutes in the U.S. Criminal Code. There are no special judicial procedures for prosecution of those crimes, nor are there special federal courts where those trials are heard. It is not possible to appeal a federal criminal conviction to the U.S. Supreme Court which has no jurisdiction of criminal matters. It is possible to investigate, charge, indict, and convict a political figure of a criminal offense. However, that does not make it a political crime or a political trial. It remains a violation of the U.S. Criminal Code and a crime. I see no justifiable reason to excuse the crimes because the criminal who committed it happens to be either a current or former politician.
I see an even greater imperative to take action when it is an elected person, at any government level, who commits these crimes. When an individual asks for our vote to place that individual in a position of power, a position that directly or indirectly impacts our personal liberty or life, that person is asking for our trust. When an individual raises his/her right hand and takes that Oath to protect the Constitution from all enemies foreign and domestic and promises to "faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter: So help me God." voters have every right to expect that person, and every one like him/her, to do just that. And when such a person betrays that Oath and commitment, the people have the right and responsibility to hold him/her accountable. Betraying our trust may not be a crime but violating that Oath is, especially when people are hurt or damaged. Col. Vindman is a better American than a lot of people holding elected office in our government these days. From this voter and American, I am thankful he upheld his Oath and that it continues to guide his actions.
I do not believe that it is true that the Supreme Court has no jurisdiction of criminal matters. What is true is that it is basically an appellate court and it does not have original jurisdiction to try cases, unless they involve suits between the states or case brought against ambassadors and other public ministers. (Const. Art. III, Sec.2)
For an informative summary of criminal cases decided by the Court in the last term see https://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/significant-criminal-cases-from-the-5422487/. These ranged from search and seizure issues, to the 6th amendment (unanimous jury issue), to statutory interpretation of criminal computer fraud laws, to the application of the plain error doctrine. The cases heard include Federal prosecutions and state ones if there is a Constitutional issue present.
I apologize and stand corrected. However, I do think this deserves a bit of clarification. The Supreme Court is as you stated an "appellate court" and as such has no original jurisdiction in criminal cases. As an appellate court, however, it can hear cases where there may have been a "procedural" error, additional exculpatory evidence subsequently discovered after the original hearing, or a misinterpretation of the criminal statute. Examples of procedural errors could be improper instructions to the jury, racial bias in seating the jury, incorrect judicial rulings during the original proceedings, and many more. Examples of misinterpretation of the law would cover the situation already suggested in the case of the reversal of findings in the "Bridgegate" cases, where it was determined there was wrongdoing but that it was not the "public corruption" which were the charges for which the defendants were tried - effectively the ruling was the case was "wrongly charged." Had the prosecutors charged the case differently another conviction on different charges might have stood.
In cases related to political figures, the charges are often, but not always, of public corruption nature. They generally relate to defrauding the government, misuse of public funds, accepting a bribe in return for political favors, or some similar charge. They are rarely charges of a RICO or conspiracy nature, or as serious as seditious conspiracy. However, it would certainly not be the first time a political figure was charged with some form of election fraud charges or election interference crimes. The mere fact that someone is a political figure would quite unlikely be grounds that would alone cause any appellate court, let alone the Supreme Court, to accept a case on appeal.
However, yes under the circumstances discussed above relating to acceptable grounds for appeal, it is possible for the Supreme Court to accept an appeal generated from a criminal case. However, it must be remembered this is not a "retrial" of the original case but rather the appellate court reviewing the circumstances only on the grounds of the appeal. You will not get an appeal accepted simply by saying, "I didn't do it and I should have not been found guilty." You have to do a lot better than that. Perhaps in Trump's case, his best defense would be mental incapacity.
Thank you for the clarification and my comments aren't met to detract from your excellent central point that we don't have a "political" criminal code. Unfortunately I'm not sure that we don't have politically biased judges and that in any trial as complex as one charging Trump, there won't be multiple opportunities for the bias to emerge. Key issues could include the necessary intent (mens rea) under various statutes, defenses along the lines of "my lawyers said I was within my rights" , attorney-client and other privileges, 1st amendment questions (did he really intend to set a fire in the Congressional theater) and the more common arguments over including and excluding witnesses and evidence. I'm sure all of this is one reason for AG Garland's cautious, methodical approach combined with the need for jury unanimity. Is it better to have charged and lost, or not to charge at all? I think the former but it's not an easy question.
I likewise agree with your comments as well. Although I am neither a lawyer nor do I pretend to be, I do lead a firm with my partner who has multiple law degrees. Our firm does provide legal services, primarily to in-house corporate legal departments, on contracts, intellectual property rights, and litigation support. Our firm’s area of expertise does not extend to criminal prosecutions or defense of them, although we do often provide guidance to corporate executives of our clients on matters related to corporate governance practices and “ethics” matters.
Having said this I do believe despite Trump’s apparent belief in his own cleverness, he is basically a buffoon. He also is surrounded, for a variety of reasons not the least of which is his history of not paying his legal bills, a cartoonish brigade of lawyers of at best marginal competence that is generally unrelated to the areas of law on which they are advising him.
The senior prosecutorial teams within the DOJ are contrastingly extremely competent. I am quite convinced if DOJ decides to bring a case it will see the best of those legal assassins assigned to that team. Were I given the choice of being a DOJ prosecutor on a case against Trump or the opportunity to be his defense counsel that decision would not be a coin flip.
Bill, I followed your exchange with Bruce as best I could. My simple question with reference to charges against Trump should they be brought by the DOJ has to do with whether he would tried by the supreme court given the low odds that a Constitutional issue or issues would be present?
Laurence Tribe, is an American legal scholar and renowned Harvard Law Professor who has argued cases 36 times before the U.S. Supreme Court and 26 times before the U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals. His record in those trials is pretty impressive and he is considered among the leading legal scholars of Constitutional Law. He has cited numerous times both in media interviews and in print his views on specific criminal statutes in the U.S. Criminal Code he believes Trump has violated. The list is reasonably lengthy and the specific crimes are quite serious with severe punishments. None of those would be cases if brought that would first be heard in the Supreme Court.
He would not be tried by the Supreme Court but issues arising from a lower court trial or issues stemming from an investigation or indictment by DOJ could make their way to the Supremes.
The SCOTUS doesn't "re-try" anything. They do have some very narrow fields of original jurisdiction but I doubt it amounts to anywhere near 1 % of their caseload since its establishment. It's an appellate Court.
Absolutely correct. Also, the Supreme Court generally hears only approximately 80 cases in a given term. That is a very small fraction (less than 1%) of the estimated over 10,000 petitions of certiorari they receive each year. Most of the time whatever the lower appellate court has ruled stands. It is quite likely that the would-be emperor Trump would insist on running any convictions through an appeals process. However, he would quite likely have to begin that process in a federal appeals court, not at the Supreme Court. It may or may not ever reach the Supreme Court.
All of us here...every single one of us here...Every single American Citizen who loves America, who loves all those who protect America at the expense of their own life MUST find a way to contribute abundantly to Colonel Alexander Vindman directly...we must honor those who have, in the face of personal adversity, numerous attacks upon themselves and family members and who continue to honor their promise that, "...here right matters..."
Please! Let us all do all we can to financially contribute DIRECTLY to Colonel Vindman TODAY RIGHT NOW!
PLEASE!
Make sure Colonel Vindman truly knows the astounding amount of love we have for him...
that he knows and trusts in how many Americans have taken the few minutes out of just one of their days to personally do all it takes to give to a small fraction of their time and money to a true self-sacrificing American Patriot.
Let your love of this man inspire you to give to him TODAY...RIGHT NOW...PLEASE!
If you are on Twitter you can find Col Vindman through his wife. I will sent her a tweet to inquire as to any fund that has been set up to support his legal action.
PLEASE POST HERE IN A WAY THAT ALL OF US, (even those old farts who are computer illiterate and unfamiliar with Twitter), WILL HAVE ACCESS TO THE CONTACT INFORMATION ENABLEING US TO GENEROUSLY CONTRIBUTE ALL WE CAN AFFORD TO ASSURE COLONIAL VINDMAN'S SUCCESSFUL VICTORY OVER THE CREEPS WHO THOUGHT THEY COULD DESTROY THE AMERICAN HERO OF PATRIOTISM!
Could the Vindmans establish a special bank/escrow account that could only accept valid credit card contributions with no possibility of withdrawals by anyone other than Vindman himself?
I can't go there with you in any comparison to Oliver North. Vindman reported the transgression and never shied away from exposing TFG's misdeeds to which Vindmam was a witness. North followed an order he knew was illegal and covered it up until given immunity. North should have been Court Martialed and put in jail. Then, perhaps he wouldn't have been around for the mischief with the NRA.
I agree- in my view, Oliver North enabled treachery and deception- Vindman at great professional and perhaps personal risk called attention to Trump's attempt to sabotage US foreign policy in order to hold on to political power. In terms of moral rectitude, I see them at opposite ends of the spectrum.
All of us here...every single one of us here...Every single American Citizen who loves America, who loves all those who protect America at the expense of their own life MUST find a way to contribute abundantly to Colonel Alexander Vindman directly...we must honor those who have, in the face of personal adversity, numerous attacks upon themselves and family members and who continue to honor their promise that, "...here right matters..."
Please! Let us all do all we can to financially contribute DIRECTLY to Colonel Vindman TODAY RIGHT NOW!
PLEASE!
Make sure Colonel Vindman truly knows the astounding amount of love we have for him...
that he knows and trusts in how many Americans have taken the few minutes out of just one of their days to personally do all it takes to give to a small fraction of their time and money to a true self-sacrificing American Patriot.
Let your love of this man inspire you to give to him TODAY...RIGHT NOW...PLEASE!
"Lt Col Vindman is to the TFG’s presidency as Col Oliver North was to the Regan presidency."
What the What? I think you are trying to say that Vindman would not be complicit in Trump's Ukraine abuses, while North was an active participant in Reagan's Iran Contra abuses. But that is not actually what you said.
Vindman is a whistleblower who stepped up to expose Trump's misdeeds. And continues to be punished by the Republican establishment.
North is a miscreant who carried out Reagan's undercover misdeeds. And was later summoned before Congress to testify. He continues to be a fixture of the GOP.
These two National Security advisors played very different roles in the two administrations. Vindman upheld the law, North broke it.
William Barr played the same role in the Republican Trump Ukraine scandal as he did in the Republican Reagan Bush Iran Contra scandal. Having helped clean up one mess, he was brought to clean up another.
“Quite the contrast Lt Col Vindman is to the TFG’s presidency as Col Oliver North was to the Regan presidency.“ Wow, it’s taking me forever to figure this out. I finally got it. Vindman is a huge contrast to North. Because of the word “as,” that makes one jump to the knee-jerk conclusion you’re comparing them. *whew*
Vindman is a huge contrast to North. A refreshing contrast. An extreme contrast. Got it.
Thanks Roland, I'm not a professional writer, obviously! But I remember writing a lot of compare and contrasting papers way back when. The contrasting of people, events, issues, I always found to be better at learning and teaching than comparisons. I didn't think so many would misinterpret my meaning or intention. That alone is pretty interesting to me now.
Ted, I agree, the contrast between Vindman's sense of honor and duty to country and North's lack thereof are about as far apart as one can get. We are fortunate that Vindman was in the "right place" at the "right time". (Ted, I think some folks have misread your 1st sentence.)
One consistent sign of a foreign troll or sentinel , is their lack of understanding the nuances of a language that is not native to them. Somebody is probably checking with their commissar the differences and meanings of contrast and compare in the English language. Other people may just be reading to fast in the busy world that is daily life. Eventually they will get it.
Amen. North was truly a Reagan puppet and ready to do any illegal and immoral act Reagan asked of him. (I still have visions of North and his secretary (Fawn or Dawn) rapidly and endlessly shredding incriminating papers regarding the Iran-Contra crimes.) Vindman is a person of principle who stands on truth and strong ideals.
It is good to know that there are people who recognize the truth and are willing to stand up for it. Lt. Col. Vindman is a much better example of patriotism than trump and his supporters. Actions speak louder than words. Trump folks, like the Jim Jones people, have drunk the Kool-Aid. I’m not sure they would recognize the truth if if walked up and slapped them in the face.
All of us here...every single one of us here...Every single American Citizen who loves America, who loves all those who protect America at the expense of their own life MUST find a way to contribute abundantly to Colonel Alexander Vindman directly...we must honor those who have, in the face of personal adversity, numerous attacks upon themselves and family members and who continue to honor their promise that, "...here right matters..."
Please! Let us all do all we can to financially contribute DIRECTLY to Colonel Vindman TODAY RIGHT NOW!
PLEASE!
Make sure Colonel Vindman truly knows the astounding amount of love we have for him...
that he knows and trusts in how many Americans have taken the few minutes out of just one of their days to personally do all it takes to give to a small fraction of their time and money to a true self-sacrificing American Patriot.
Let your love of this man inspire you to give to him TODAY...RIGHT NOW...PLEASE!
Linda Tripp lied to her friend (some friend) to get hold of evidence that would show Bill Clinton not having the wherewithal to say no to sex. She used dishonesty and betrayal of a friend to catch a president lying about sex.
Lt. Col. Vindman behaved honorably the entire time, and as a result the public learned that tfg had been shaking down a foreign head of state, illegally witholding necessary money for self defense appropriated by Congress to procure an announcement of an investigation into the family of a political rival.
So? Both produced "evidence"; were the darlings of the opposing Parties; contributed to impeachment charges; and their action led nowhere. Further, she was fired from her job and subsequently filed a court case against the government.
Star(r) witnesses towards both modern presidential impeachments are written in history and will remain that way. The wrath each incurred afterwards is also familiar. It is unfortunate how closed minds color interpretations of these facts and even seek to assail folks who allow themselves to think freely.
William, no one here has assailed you personally. A person such as you or me who puts out ideas into a discussion forum has to be prepared for others to have different ideas. While your description of similarities is interesting, and even amusing, IMO the differences in character as shown by scheming (Tripp) vs honorable (Vindman) actions are far more important. You can call that a closed mind if you want.
You seem to imply that Lt Col Vindman, Fiona Hill, Ambassador Yovanovitch, and the other public servants who testified to Trump's illegal shakedown are all no better than Linda Tripp finagling a dress with evidence of non-marital consensual presidential sex. If that is not what you meant, please clarify.
I would suggest that calling other people's ideas an "abomination" is really not the best way to get started with intellectualism.
You wish to qualify people's intent, and I haven't criticized your idea or that of others, however, I would also proffer the danger in imposing an unqualified view of what the intent of others is or providing commentary on their "character". It seems, you wish to decry Tripp based on your belief of her as a person, rather than accept or discuss my observation that they served similar roles in the last two presidential impeachments.
The Facts are: Tripp and Vindman produced key evidence towards their respective cases. As I explained, this resulted in great polarization (but no real outcome) followed by political retribution (which still seems to linger, hence this dialogue).
Lastly, I don't believe it is fair or right to proclaim some folks as "better" than others; that is really a road I don't rally upon. Sorry.
In textual analysis, which is what this thread is partly about, 'author intent' has long been superseded by 'reader response' and other critical approaches.
I care nothing about your intent.
My response to your statement, is that linking those two names, those two persons, is an abomination. On the level of language and in the context of history and of society.
If we are discussing the innate worth of a person as a human being, yes, we are all equal. Some people’s actions are demonstrably better than others. To offer an example within the constrained arena of elected Republicans in Florida: Sen Rick Scott condemned the NeoNazis’ hate rally in Orlando. Governor Desantis not only refused to criticize Nazi hate, his press person twice suggested it was unfair to ask that of him. Therefore I regard Scott’s behavior as morally better than that of his governor.
It seems you posted a gamut of obfuscation for some reason and ended with a change of subject. None of it relates to this sub-discussion.
Further, it does not discount the fact that both Tripp and Vindman were key evidential players in POTUS impeachments and they are both praised/demeaned according to ones political beliefs.
Therefore, I think understanding their similarity is probably more important that immediately recoiling to denounce it.
In a 'compare and contrast' scenario, understanding the relative significance of similarities and differences is essential.
On the level of language, rhetorical turns come with an allegiance to fact and a burden of responsibility.
I can list all the ways in which cats and dogs, apples and oranges, planets and stars are similar. But to be useful and honest, I would have to admit that the ways they differ are more significant to understanding the world I live in and how to take ethical action.
Apologies for having misread your opening sentence! Lack of careful reading on my part. But it gave several of us the opportunity to express our discontent with North!!
No worries! I'm thinking of all the impressionable young minds that Regan/North was able to fool then. I was young then, and I don't think I , nor a lot of boys understood how bad North was. Same as young minds today might not fully understand how bad TFG is now. Its one of the things that most disgusts me about TFG, his horrible example of demagoguery, lying, cheating, and corruption ( not leadership) to young men and what they can get away with. It offends me deeply that more R's can not stand up to this idiot. It is a symptom that something is very wrong with the QOP. They can never be trusted.
It is not a comparison. Its a "contrast" as in the opposite of many traits. Vindman is ethical, moral, and legal. North was none of those. While Col North sought to cover up an illegal president's orders, Vindman sought to expose TFG's illegal abuse of power.
Quite the contrast Lt Col Vindman is to the TFG’s presidency as Col Oliver North was to the Regan presidency.
Thank you Col Vindman for reminding us that honesty, integrity, character, decency, and the rule of law, all matter in a democracy. Thank you for demonstrating the moral courage, at great personal and professional risk and sacrifice. Robert Kennedy said , "Moral courage is a rarer commodity than bravery in battle or great intelligence. Yet it is the one essential, vital quality for those who seek to change the world which yields most painfully to change."
Thank you Col Vindman for inspiring us through your example and sacrifice, and recalling us of our duties as American citizens.
I think what was done to this honest and courageous man by TFG was the tipping point to the fall of our democracy. I couldn’t believe this could happen here. This United States Colonel with immense integrity who truly believes that “right matters” and stood up to protect our democracy is retaliated against and removed from his position. As well as his brother who wasn’t even involved. This incident solidified my suspicions and fears that we had a tinpot dictator/ mob boss as our president. And it just got worse from there.
Russian scholar Nancy Reisman calls the TFG’s style of governing “ THUG- OCRACY”. IMHO this label is designed to fit him like a correctional orange leisure suit.
Remember Sadam being pulled out of the Dirt, that spider hole in dirty pajamas, long hair, bearded and haggard? The regular Iraq’s so relieved of decades of brutal oppression, fear and anxiety, and the Sunni minority humbled. Could you feel the healing begin in that moment?
I hope we get to see TFG in handcuffs, Orange jumpsuit, pale, ( no spray tan service in jail, no ridiculous tupe’, and no baggie suit and dumb 40 inch red tie. “Fictional successful businessman DJT”, is a mythical creation, he is not real, he’s been “created” like the Marlboro Man, he is only a marketing creation. And that probably makes him even more dangerous.
We need this reality to happen. How many bomb threats have occurred at HBCU’s this week? How many neo Nazi groups are gathering and menacing in broad day light around the country? How many QOP’s are attacking the idea of a black woman on the Supreme Court before it has even happened? How many QOP officials Aren’t saying anything about TFG’s comments calling for violence in the streets of our cities?
Until TFG is charged and found guilty by a jury of his peers, the threat to decency, the rule of law, and democracy is real.
I'm concerned that these militia groups are infiltrating everywhere across this country. I was disturbed to read that Vermont is 8th in the nation for possession of guns and I've read that there are at least 4 of these groups living in the state "off the grid", 200 of whom chartered a bus to invade the Capital on 1/6/21. When are we going to hear that armed intimidation of voters is against the law and put these people away! There HAS to be accountability!
“A body of men holding themselves accountable to nobody, ought not to be trusted by anybody.” - Thomas Paine
if only we could truly learn from history. However if we don’t read it and we don’t teach it and we ban books, that will be difficult to do. Fortunately so far that is a desperate minority. We need to let our voices be heard, loud and strong, if we are to continue to live in a free and healthy society.
You are right, and right to be concerned about these militia groups, but from what we have learned in Michigan (attack on our Capitol, plan to kidnap our amazing Governor), the appropriate federal agencies were and are infiltrating the infiltraters. The January 6 attempted coup turned out to be a perfect round up of the baddest. The investigation into that, and into tRump's treasonous role in it, is critical for mapping out the lairs of all these Brown Shirts so when indictments are imminent, the king WILL go down, but the country won't.
We all should be concerned about this. These groups are taught/trained (Turner diaries) to operate independently like independent cells with decentralized leadership. Sound familiar?
If only the feds worked as hard to stop domestic terrorists as international ones, like the head of ISIS. It should be a top priority. Jail time is the best deterrent.
Although you have to admit, ted, the orange jumpsuit might go well with the Toupé and spray-on tan 😉
True that!
Until TFG actually appears human, he remains a threat to humanity. ha ha!
Of course I agree with you completely, just having a little fun
😂
All of us here...every single one of us here...Every single American Citizen who loves America, who loves all those who protect America at the expense of their own life MUST find a way to contribute abundantly to Colonel Alexander Vindman directly...we must honor those who have, in the face of personal adversity, numerous attacks upon themselves and family members and who continue to honor their promise that, "...here right matters..."
Please! Let us all do all we can to financially contribute DIRECTLY to Colonel Vindman TODAY RIGHT NOW!
PLEASE!
Make sure Colonel Vindman truly knows the astounding amount of love we have for him...
that he knows and trusts in how many Americans have taken the few minutes out of just one of their days to personally do all it takes to give to a small fraction of their time and money to a true self-sacrificing American Patriot.
Let your love of this man inspire you to give to him TODAY...RIGHT NOW...PLEASE!
Is there a way to give to Vindman directly? If so, please post a link? Thanks!
Buy his book RIGHT MATTERS HERE.
My husband got it for me for Christmas ❤
Correct title is "Here, Right Matters". Took me awhile to get it right, myself.
I have just now discovered that Colonial Vindman has become a member of the Lawfare Institute.
However, as far as I can immediately determine they do not have any way to contact them except for this below listed snail-mail address...
which is, I guess, better than nothing, Eh!?
Lawfare Institute
P.O. Box 33226
Washington, DC 20033
What now...any suggestions?
Thanks, George. If there is an organization that is paying his legal fees, all or in part, I'd donate to them. I'd prefer donating directly to AV. I'll buy the book anyway, but part of that money goes to 3rd parties too.
I am trying to find a way...I need your help in this matter...do you know how to research a contribution resource...I sure hope so...thanks
That's why one of my nicknames is mafia don.
Exactly!!
Perfect!
😂 👍
Correction…it was Nancy Reis…
All of us here...every single one of us here...Every single American Citizen who loves America, who loves all those who protect America at the expense of their own life MUST find a way to contribute abundantly to Colonel Alexander Vindman directly...we must honor those who have, in the face of personal adversity, numerous attacks upon themselves and family members and who continue to honor their promise that, "...here right matters..."
Please! Let us all do all we can to financially contribute DIRECTLY to Colonel Vindman TODAY RIGHT NOW!
PLEASE!
Make sure Colonel Vindman truly knows the astounding amount of love we have for him...
that he knows and trusts in how many Americans have taken the few minutes out of just one of their days to personally do all it takes to give to a small fraction of their time and money to a true self-sacrificing American Patriot.
Let your love of this man inspire you to give to him TODAY...RIGHT NOW...PLEASE!
I hate to be the one to throw ice water on your rosy view of this country and government, but Vindman is far from the first guy things like this have happened to. You could lose him in the crowd if you got them all together - and that's just the ones still alive.
I guess I didn’t articulate very well. I know Vindeman isn’t the first. This case was just so in your face with TFGs ruthless dictator traits on full display that it shook me.
The lionization of Vindman strikes me more as a sign of the rot within the Republicans under Trump. A man just “doing his duty” stands out in bleak contrast to the great majority who fetishized ‘duty’ into servility to Trump. If the full story of Vindman’s coming to the notice of Trump is that he merely expressed uneasiness about the infamous Ukraine call, then this says far more about the inner circle than it does about him.
The decision to throw out both Vindman and his brother in humiliating manner came, no doubt, after a nanosecond of reflection by Trump.
The lawsuit will be buried under a coming avalanche of new stories. But at least for today it stands as an indication that Trump pissed off the wrong guy.
100% agree as to rot within the GOP, under Trump and continuing under FOX news's Tucker Carlson, MTG, Matt Gaetz, Ted Cruz, Josh Hawley, etc.! MLK's oft repeated claim that the arc of history always bends toward justice is admirable but that arc is so long and so often obstructed/detoured that those in most need of justice at the moment will not be around to see/enjoy justice; at least, I fear that is the case. If Vindman is successful in his suit, that arc may be back on track.
This lawsuit comes at a key time, as if the clarion call for Trump to be outed, is marching closer and soon. We are watching in real time his desperation, including his hate for his VP who stood beside him after 1/6. That should be a lesson to the others who have been thrown under the bus, but so far there is still abundant silence. Or at least that brings some hope to the increasingly disillusioning state of our nation.
Why Bill Barr resigned. But he has been in front of the 1/6 Comm. ?
But he was one who was on tv the whole time, it matters whether evil is done in the dark or in prime time. Sadly
The benefit of public and televised hearings, especially calling key witnesses, who are courageous and care about and are loyal to country over loyalty to a criminal president cannot be overstated. Yes, we are forever in debt to the heroes in our midst.
Agreed, especially in the case of Trump. How many of those who worked for himk his wife, or his kids while they were in the WH, have had their names and careers ended, mocked, or tarnished, in some case irretrievably?
And how many of those now still Maga-minded, still sticking up for him and/or trying to coverup his malfeasance/dereliction of duty will find themselves defendants in civil or criminal cases?
So far 700 of his "followers" participating in the 01/06/21 have been charged with various felonies and/or misdemeanors. And the investigations are on going.
In the end, some folks are masochists, and all who still support Trump and his acolytes seem to be masochists: they cannot admit they fell for a criminal, made a mistake, so they continue to let themselves be used.
Some of them are focused on some single issue like abortion. Others love the behavior he models....don't like something like masks, so he has given them carte blanche to create havoc and intimidate. The Oregon legislature began its session yesterday and sure enough the anti-mask mob was at the door. Some finally got in citing religious or medical reasons. My feeling is no mask, no entry, period. People do now have to pass through metal detectors.
Just read that some put on masks and then took them off once inside. Yep, let's keep spreading the virus.
👍 So many have had to hire Security at home and work. Happing where I live.
Forgive me, but I must point out, with tongue in cheek, that hiring extra security is the R vision of creating jobs — don’tcha know.
Whoever heard of a mask being a religious problem? What nonsense.
No idea. The fundies around here are an absolute menace. They will not get a vaccine, mask, keep social distance....nothing and here they are whining and likely lying to get into the Capitol building. God protects them, you know. But the virus doesn't care about religion or politics or anything else except finding a host.
Yes, and we have to wonder if (and why) those 700 really believe their leader will be president again someday and pardon them, as he has promised.
Rupert
Gee whiz! So America ain't so wonderful, Eh!?
So, you say, this Colonial Vindman's whose self-sacrificing revelations about the blasphemous braggart who IS guilty of destroying American democracy...
So, you say, that same Colonial Vindman who is the truly loved American hero by all those who also love HCR's efforts of educating us about the truth...
So you say, Colonial Vindman's determination to save our Nation can so blithely be cast into the nebulosity of obscurity's fog...
So I say you will find here a vast majority's passionate disputation about your account of Colonial Vindman and
Instead witness such majority's effusiveness about America's brilliant shining star of courageousness that is well beyond the pale of our concomitant American Patriots!
I agree with U TC. But to my knowledge I don’t recall it being under similar circumstances ? Yes ? Who ?
Don Seligman...
Unfortunately, there are a lot of Americans, still, who "couldn't believe this could happen here". I may be a bit jaded, but I am awaiting the first reports of the sudden and mysterious deaths of past and potential witnesses to the misdeeds of our former democratically elected President. Our time is running out while Trump is still running free.
"Almost eight years before the Capitol was attacked by partisans bent on reversing the results of an election, nearly one-third of Americans surveyed – and a whopping 44% of Republicans – said in a 2013 PublicMind poll by Fairleigh Dickinson University that armed rebellion might soon be necessary in the U.S. to protect liberties." https://theconversation.com/american-support-for-conspiracy-theories-and-armed-rebellion-isnt-new-we-just-didnt-believe-it-before-the-capitol-insurrection-173486
Well, Judith, if a pollster had asked me before the last election about the need for armed rebellion to "protect liberties", I might have been among the one third, though the liberties I have in mind are not the same ones most of the Jan. 6th crowd are fantasizing about. Poverty, racism, climate change, wealth disparity, abortion, gun violence, healthcare, world peace, etc. all involve "liberties" in one way or another, and if the far-right crazies take up arms in an organized way, someone will need to oppose them. I'm not sure peaceful demonstrations and well-reasoned arguments will be enough to save our country. That said, armed violence is almost inconceivably stupid and selfdefeating, but we Americans are no strangers to it, and I'm afraid it's a real possibility.
Yes.
And, as with much (all) of TFG’s unpresidential behavior, in broad daylight.
All of us here...every single one of us here...Every single American Citizen who loves America, who loves all those who protect America at the expense of their own life MUST find a way to contribute abundantly to Colonel Alexander Vindman directly...we must honor those who have, in the face of personal adversity, numerous attacks upon themselves and family members and who continue to honor their promise that, "...here right matters..."
Please! Let us all do all we can to financially contribute DIRECTLY to Colonel Vindman TODAY RIGHT NOW!
PLEASE!
Make sure Colonel Vindman truly knows the astounding amount of love we have for him...
that he knows and trusts in how many Americans have taken the few minutes out of just one of their days to personally do all it takes to give to a small fraction of their time and money to a true self-sacrificing American Patriot.
Let your love of this man inspire you to give to him TODAY...RIGHT NOW...PLEASE!
All of us here...every single one of us here...Every single American Citizen who loves America, who loves all those who protect America at the expense of their own life MUST find a way to contribute abundantly to Colonel Alexander Vindman directly...we must honor those who have, in the face of personal adversity, numerous attacks upon themselves and family members and who continue to honor their promise that, "...here right matters..."
Please! Let us all do all we can to financially contribute DIRECTLY to Colonel Vindman TODAY RIGHT NOW!
PLEASE!
Make sure Colonel Vindman truly knows the astounding amount of love we have for him...
that he knows and trusts in how many Americans have taken the few minutes out of just one of their days to personally do all it takes to give to a small fraction of their time and money to a true self-sacrificing American Patriot.
Let your love of this man inspire you to give to him TODAY...RIGHT NOW...PLEASE!
"tipping point to the fall of our democracy. " I wasn't aware our Democracy had fallen. Cherry picking any one thing and giving it undue weight in the pantheon of American History is dangerous.
Let us all be quite clear in our rhetoric. I object to the use of the term political crimes or political trials. The U.S. Criminal Code has no distinct category of crimes labeled as “political” crimes. The offenses committed by Trump and others in his circle are simply crimes and covered by various criminal statutes in the U.S. Criminal Code. There are no special judicial procedures for prosecution of those crimes, nor are there special federal courts where those trials are heard. It is not possible to appeal a federal criminal conviction to the U.S. Supreme Court which has no jurisdiction of criminal matters. It is possible to investigate, charge, indict, and convict a political figure of a criminal offense. However, that does not make it a political crime or a political trial. It remains a violation of the U.S. Criminal Code and a crime. I see no justifiable reason to excuse the crimes because the criminal who committed it happens to be either a current or former politician.
I'm glad to know that the Stench Court has no authority to reverse tfg's future criminal convictions.
I see an even greater imperative to take action when it is an elected person, at any government level, who commits these crimes. When an individual asks for our vote to place that individual in a position of power, a position that directly or indirectly impacts our personal liberty or life, that person is asking for our trust. When an individual raises his/her right hand and takes that Oath to protect the Constitution from all enemies foreign and domestic and promises to "faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter: So help me God." voters have every right to expect that person, and every one like him/her, to do just that. And when such a person betrays that Oath and commitment, the people have the right and responsibility to hold him/her accountable. Betraying our trust may not be a crime but violating that Oath is, especially when people are hurt or damaged. Col. Vindman is a better American than a lot of people holding elected office in our government these days. From this voter and American, I am thankful he upheld his Oath and that it continues to guide his actions.
Absolutely! "Col. Vindman is a better American than a lot of people holding elected office in our government these days."
Thank you for the clarification.
I do not believe that it is true that the Supreme Court has no jurisdiction of criminal matters. What is true is that it is basically an appellate court and it does not have original jurisdiction to try cases, unless they involve suits between the states or case brought against ambassadors and other public ministers. (Const. Art. III, Sec.2)
For an informative summary of criminal cases decided by the Court in the last term see https://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/significant-criminal-cases-from-the-5422487/. These ranged from search and seizure issues, to the 6th amendment (unanimous jury issue), to statutory interpretation of criminal computer fraud laws, to the application of the plain error doctrine. The cases heard include Federal prosecutions and state ones if there is a Constitutional issue present.
Bill,
I apologize and stand corrected. However, I do think this deserves a bit of clarification. The Supreme Court is as you stated an "appellate court" and as such has no original jurisdiction in criminal cases. As an appellate court, however, it can hear cases where there may have been a "procedural" error, additional exculpatory evidence subsequently discovered after the original hearing, or a misinterpretation of the criminal statute. Examples of procedural errors could be improper instructions to the jury, racial bias in seating the jury, incorrect judicial rulings during the original proceedings, and many more. Examples of misinterpretation of the law would cover the situation already suggested in the case of the reversal of findings in the "Bridgegate" cases, where it was determined there was wrongdoing but that it was not the "public corruption" which were the charges for which the defendants were tried - effectively the ruling was the case was "wrongly charged." Had the prosecutors charged the case differently another conviction on different charges might have stood.
In cases related to political figures, the charges are often, but not always, of public corruption nature. They generally relate to defrauding the government, misuse of public funds, accepting a bribe in return for political favors, or some similar charge. They are rarely charges of a RICO or conspiracy nature, or as serious as seditious conspiracy. However, it would certainly not be the first time a political figure was charged with some form of election fraud charges or election interference crimes. The mere fact that someone is a political figure would quite unlikely be grounds that would alone cause any appellate court, let alone the Supreme Court, to accept a case on appeal.
However, yes under the circumstances discussed above relating to acceptable grounds for appeal, it is possible for the Supreme Court to accept an appeal generated from a criminal case. However, it must be remembered this is not a "retrial" of the original case but rather the appellate court reviewing the circumstances only on the grounds of the appeal. You will not get an appeal accepted simply by saying, "I didn't do it and I should have not been found guilty." You have to do a lot better than that. Perhaps in Trump's case, his best defense would be mental incapacity.
Thank you for the clarification and my comments aren't met to detract from your excellent central point that we don't have a "political" criminal code. Unfortunately I'm not sure that we don't have politically biased judges and that in any trial as complex as one charging Trump, there won't be multiple opportunities for the bias to emerge. Key issues could include the necessary intent (mens rea) under various statutes, defenses along the lines of "my lawyers said I was within my rights" , attorney-client and other privileges, 1st amendment questions (did he really intend to set a fire in the Congressional theater) and the more common arguments over including and excluding witnesses and evidence. I'm sure all of this is one reason for AG Garland's cautious, methodical approach combined with the need for jury unanimity. Is it better to have charged and lost, or not to charge at all? I think the former but it's not an easy question.
Bill,
I likewise agree with your comments as well. Although I am neither a lawyer nor do I pretend to be, I do lead a firm with my partner who has multiple law degrees. Our firm does provide legal services, primarily to in-house corporate legal departments, on contracts, intellectual property rights, and litigation support. Our firm’s area of expertise does not extend to criminal prosecutions or defense of them, although we do often provide guidance to corporate executives of our clients on matters related to corporate governance practices and “ethics” matters.
Having said this I do believe despite Trump’s apparent belief in his own cleverness, he is basically a buffoon. He also is surrounded, for a variety of reasons not the least of which is his history of not paying his legal bills, a cartoonish brigade of lawyers of at best marginal competence that is generally unrelated to the areas of law on which they are advising him.
The senior prosecutorial teams within the DOJ are contrastingly extremely competent. I am quite convinced if DOJ decides to bring a case it will see the best of those legal assassins assigned to that team. Were I given the choice of being a DOJ prosecutor on a case against Trump or the opportunity to be his defense counsel that decision would not be a coin flip.
Bill, I followed your exchange with Bruce as best I could. My simple question with reference to charges against Trump should they be brought by the DOJ has to do with whether he would tried by the supreme court given the low odds that a Constitutional issue or issues would be present?
Laurence Tribe, is an American legal scholar and renowned Harvard Law Professor who has argued cases 36 times before the U.S. Supreme Court and 26 times before the U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals. His record in those trials is pretty impressive and he is considered among the leading legal scholars of Constitutional Law. He has cited numerous times both in media interviews and in print his views on specific criminal statutes in the U.S. Criminal Code he believes Trump has violated. The list is reasonably lengthy and the specific crimes are quite serious with severe punishments. None of those would be cases if brought that would first be heard in the Supreme Court.
Fern,
He would not be tried by the Supreme Court but issues arising from a lower court trial or issues stemming from an investigation or indictment by DOJ could make their way to the Supremes.
I have often expected that mental incapacity would be his ultimate defense, especially as his behavior exponentially degraded over time.
The SCOTUS doesn't "re-try" anything. They do have some very narrow fields of original jurisdiction but I doubt it amounts to anywhere near 1 % of their caseload since its establishment. It's an appellate Court.
Absolutely correct. Also, the Supreme Court generally hears only approximately 80 cases in a given term. That is a very small fraction (less than 1%) of the estimated over 10,000 petitions of certiorari they receive each year. Most of the time whatever the lower appellate court has ruled stands. It is quite likely that the would-be emperor Trump would insist on running any convictions through an appeals process. However, he would quite likely have to begin that process in a federal appeals court, not at the Supreme Court. It may or may not ever reach the Supreme Court.
Thank you! Does this mean I will sleep better at night? Nah, not yet, but maybe soon?
And yet the SC reversed the NJ Bridgegate convictions of Baroni and Kelly. Were these not criminal?
Search up for Bridgegate and read BruceC's explanation for the basis of reversal.
Thank you, BruceC. We're all overwrought, and clarity is important.
All of us here...every single one of us here...Every single American Citizen who loves America, who loves all those who protect America at the expense of their own life MUST find a way to contribute abundantly to Colonel Alexander Vindman directly...we must honor those who have, in the face of personal adversity, numerous attacks upon themselves and family members and who continue to honor their promise that, "...here right matters..."
Please! Let us all do all we can to financially contribute DIRECTLY to Colonel Vindman TODAY RIGHT NOW!
PLEASE!
Make sure Colonel Vindman truly knows the astounding amount of love we have for him...
that he knows and trusts in how many Americans have taken the few minutes out of just one of their days to personally do all it takes to give to a small fraction of their time and money to a true self-sacrificing American Patriot.
Let your love of this man inspire you to give to him TODAY...RIGHT NOW...PLEASE!
If you are on Twitter you can find Col Vindman through his wife. I will sent her a tweet to inquire as to any fund that has been set up to support his legal action.
THANK YOU RUSTY FAIRBANKS!
EXCELLENT NEWS!
PLEASE POST HERE IN A WAY THAT ALL OF US, (even those old farts who are computer illiterate and unfamiliar with Twitter), WILL HAVE ACCESS TO THE CONTACT INFORMATION ENABLEING US TO GENEROUSLY CONTRIBUTE ALL WE CAN AFFORD TO ASSURE COLONIAL VINDMAN'S SUCCESSFUL VICTORY OVER THE CREEPS WHO THOUGHT THEY COULD DESTROY THE AMERICAN HERO OF PATRIOTISM!
Could the Vindmans establish a special bank/escrow account that could only accept valid credit card contributions with no possibility of withdrawals by anyone other than Vindman himself?
What makes you think federal criminal convictions can't be appealed? Of course they can.
Keeping in mind that prosecution for "political crimes" is a hallmark of dictators.
I can't go there with you in any comparison to Oliver North. Vindman reported the transgression and never shied away from exposing TFG's misdeeds to which Vindmam was a witness. North followed an order he knew was illegal and covered it up until given immunity. North should have been Court Martialed and put in jail. Then, perhaps he wouldn't have been around for the mischief with the NRA.
I agree- in my view, Oliver North enabled treachery and deception- Vindman at great professional and perhaps personal risk called attention to Trump's attempt to sabotage US foreign policy in order to hold on to political power. In terms of moral rectitude, I see them at opposite ends of the spectrum.
Right you are - no comparison.
All of us here...every single one of us here...Every single American Citizen who loves America, who loves all those who protect America at the expense of their own life MUST find a way to contribute abundantly to Colonel Alexander Vindman directly...we must honor those who have, in the face of personal adversity, numerous attacks upon themselves and family members and who continue to honor their promise that, "...here right matters..."
Please! Let us all do all we can to financially contribute DIRECTLY to Colonel Vindman TODAY RIGHT NOW!
PLEASE!
Make sure Colonel Vindman truly knows the astounding amount of love we have for him...
that he knows and trusts in how many Americans have taken the few minutes out of just one of their days to personally do all it takes to give to a small fraction of their time and money to a true self-sacrificing American Patriot.
Let your love of this man inspire you to give to him TODAY...RIGHT NOW...PLEASE!
"Lt Col Vindman is to the TFG’s presidency as Col Oliver North was to the Regan presidency."
What the What? I think you are trying to say that Vindman would not be complicit in Trump's Ukraine abuses, while North was an active participant in Reagan's Iran Contra abuses. But that is not actually what you said.
Vindman is a whistleblower who stepped up to expose Trump's misdeeds. And continues to be punished by the Republican establishment.
North is a miscreant who carried out Reagan's undercover misdeeds. And was later summoned before Congress to testify. He continues to be a fixture of the GOP.
These two National Security advisors played very different roles in the two administrations. Vindman upheld the law, North broke it.
William Barr played the same role in the Republican Trump Ukraine scandal as he did in the Republican Reagan Bush Iran Contra scandal. Having helped clean up one mess, he was brought to clean up another.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/28/opinion/trump-russia-iran-contra.html
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2021/08/trump-ukraine-call-impeachment-vindman/619617/
Ted did use the word “contrast”.
Thanks Eric!
“Quite the contrast Lt Col Vindman is to the TFG’s presidency as Col Oliver North was to the Regan presidency.“ Wow, it’s taking me forever to figure this out. I finally got it. Vindman is a huge contrast to North. Because of the word “as,” that makes one jump to the knee-jerk conclusion you’re comparing them. *whew*
Vindman is a huge contrast to North. A refreshing contrast. An extreme contrast. Got it.
Thanks Roland, I'm not a professional writer, obviously! But I remember writing a lot of compare and contrasting papers way back when. The contrasting of people, events, issues, I always found to be better at learning and teaching than comparisons. I didn't think so many would misinterpret my meaning or intention. That alone is pretty interesting to me now.
Ted, I agree, the contrast between Vindman's sense of honor and duty to country and North's lack thereof are about as far apart as one can get. We are fortunate that Vindman was in the "right place" at the "right time". (Ted, I think some folks have misread your 1st sentence.)
Good take. Vindman ( a good guy) will take current tfg down as did North ( a not so good guy) did to another tfg.
One consistent sign of a foreign troll or sentinel , is their lack of understanding the nuances of a language that is not native to them. Somebody is probably checking with their commissar the differences and meanings of contrast and compare in the English language. Other people may just be reading to fast in the busy world that is daily life. Eventually they will get it.
And I was among them! I despised Ollie North then and now and failed to read the opening sentence carefully.
Amen. North was truly a Reagan puppet and ready to do any illegal and immoral act Reagan asked of him. (I still have visions of North and his secretary (Fawn or Dawn) rapidly and endlessly shredding incriminating papers regarding the Iran-Contra crimes.) Vindman is a person of principle who stands on truth and strong ideals.
It is good to know that there are people who recognize the truth and are willing to stand up for it. Lt. Col. Vindman is a much better example of patriotism than trump and his supporters. Actions speak louder than words. Trump folks, like the Jim Jones people, have drunk the Kool-Aid. I’m not sure they would recognize the truth if if walked up and slapped them in the face.
Good take. Vindman ( a good guy) will take current tfg down as did North ( a not so good guy) did to another tfg.
Seriously. Neither Reagan nor Bush were taken down by Iran Contra. And Republicans continue to obstruct every effort to hold Trump accountable.
All of us here...every single one of us here...Every single American Citizen who loves America, who loves all those who protect America at the expense of their own life MUST find a way to contribute abundantly to Colonel Alexander Vindman directly...we must honor those who have, in the face of personal adversity, numerous attacks upon themselves and family members and who continue to honor their promise that, "...here right matters..."
Please! Let us all do all we can to financially contribute DIRECTLY to Colonel Vindman TODAY RIGHT NOW!
PLEASE!
Make sure Colonel Vindman truly knows the astounding amount of love we have for him...
that he knows and trusts in how many Americans have taken the few minutes out of just one of their days to personally do all it takes to give to a small fraction of their time and money to a true self-sacrificing American Patriot.
Let your love of this man inspire you to give to him TODAY...RIGHT NOW...PLEASE!
Trump's Vindman is more like Clinton's Linda Tripp.
Not at all.
Linda Tripp lied to her friend (some friend) to get hold of evidence that would show Bill Clinton not having the wherewithal to say no to sex. She used dishonesty and betrayal of a friend to catch a president lying about sex.
Lt. Col. Vindman behaved honorably the entire time, and as a result the public learned that tfg had been shaking down a foreign head of state, illegally witholding necessary money for self defense appropriated by Congress to procure an announcement of an investigation into the family of a political rival.
I believe Lewinsky was freely discussing/bragging about her tryst.
Further, both Vindman and Tripp had Blue Dress Blues ;)
Not to mention, both were equally effective in bringing down the POTUS <rolleyes>
Maybe, but Tripp coaxed Lewinsky to give her the dress with lies about what she was going to do with it.
So? Both produced "evidence"; were the darlings of the opposing Parties; contributed to impeachment charges; and their action led nowhere. Further, she was fired from her job and subsequently filed a court case against the government.
Like it or not, they are rife with similarity
Listing transient and broad consequences their actions had does not make the heart of their motivations, loyalties, and actions remotely alike.
Linda Tripp was no Alexander Vindman. History will not mention them in the same breath.
No dice. Similarities with relatively little significance - in the greater context of ethics in government.
To even link those two names is an abomination. Aside from being a bad analogy.
Star(r) witnesses towards both modern presidential impeachments are written in history and will remain that way. The wrath each incurred afterwards is also familiar. It is unfortunate how closed minds color interpretations of these facts and even seek to assail folks who allow themselves to think freely.
William, no one here has assailed you personally. A person such as you or me who puts out ideas into a discussion forum has to be prepared for others to have different ideas. While your description of similarities is interesting, and even amusing, IMO the differences in character as shown by scheming (Tripp) vs honorable (Vindman) actions are far more important. You can call that a closed mind if you want.
You seem to imply that Lt Col Vindman, Fiona Hill, Ambassador Yovanovitch, and the other public servants who testified to Trump's illegal shakedown are all no better than Linda Tripp finagling a dress with evidence of non-marital consensual presidential sex. If that is not what you meant, please clarify.
ThankYou JoanF for your gracious and elucidating reply. You are a fine mediator.
I would suggest that calling other people's ideas an "abomination" is really not the best way to get started with intellectualism.
You wish to qualify people's intent, and I haven't criticized your idea or that of others, however, I would also proffer the danger in imposing an unqualified view of what the intent of others is or providing commentary on their "character". It seems, you wish to decry Tripp based on your belief of her as a person, rather than accept or discuss my observation that they served similar roles in the last two presidential impeachments.
The Facts are: Tripp and Vindman produced key evidence towards their respective cases. As I explained, this resulted in great polarization (but no real outcome) followed by political retribution (which still seems to linger, hence this dialogue).
Lastly, I don't believe it is fair or right to proclaim some folks as "better" than others; that is really a road I don't rally upon. Sorry.
In textual analysis, which is what this thread is partly about, 'author intent' has long been superseded by 'reader response' and other critical approaches.
I care nothing about your intent.
My response to your statement, is that linking those two names, those two persons, is an abomination. On the level of language and in the context of history and of society.
If we are discussing the innate worth of a person as a human being, yes, we are all equal. Some people’s actions are demonstrably better than others. To offer an example within the constrained arena of elected Republicans in Florida: Sen Rick Scott condemned the NeoNazis’ hate rally in Orlando. Governor Desantis not only refused to criticize Nazi hate, his press person twice suggested it was unfair to ask that of him. Therefore I regard Scott’s behavior as morally better than that of his governor.
Watergate, Iran Contra, ClintonStarr sex follies, Ukraine. And all involved. Any analogies offered here do more to obscure than to elucidate.
What is consistent is the decline of the GOP . Its resentment of Federal government and of the rule of law.
Thank you. What a slippery slope this discussion has found itself in!
It seems you posted a gamut of obfuscation for some reason and ended with a change of subject. None of it relates to this sub-discussion.
Further, it does not discount the fact that both Tripp and Vindman were key evidential players in POTUS impeachments and they are both praised/demeaned according to ones political beliefs.
Therefore, I think understanding their similarity is probably more important that immediately recoiling to denounce it.
In a 'compare and contrast' scenario, understanding the relative significance of similarities and differences is essential.
On the level of language, rhetorical turns come with an allegiance to fact and a burden of responsibility.
I can list all the ways in which cats and dogs, apples and oranges, planets and stars are similar. But to be useful and honest, I would have to admit that the ways they differ are more significant to understanding the world I live in and how to take ethical action.
OMG ! Was she the one who said Monica still had the “ Blue Dress ?” I hadn’t thought of her in yrs . 😂
Apologies for having misread your opening sentence! Lack of careful reading on my part. But it gave several of us the opportunity to express our discontent with North!!
No worries! I'm thinking of all the impressionable young minds that Regan/North was able to fool then. I was young then, and I don't think I , nor a lot of boys understood how bad North was. Same as young minds today might not fully understand how bad TFG is now. Its one of the things that most disgusts me about TFG, his horrible example of demagoguery, lying, cheating, and corruption ( not leadership) to young men and what they can get away with. It offends me deeply that more R's can not stand up to this idiot. It is a symptom that something is very wrong with the QOP. They can never be trusted.
OMG ... Comparing Col. Vindman to Oliver North is one of the most absurd postings I have ever read in HCR comments section. Totally apples to turds.
Stephen, reread the first sentence again.
It is not a comparison. Its a "contrast" as in the opposite of many traits. Vindman is ethical, moral, and legal. North was none of those. While Col North sought to cover up an illegal president's orders, Vindman sought to expose TFG's illegal abuse of power.
Truth spoken here ! There sure is an ‘Economy ‘ of it lately.