I will never understand their obsession with Hillary and how voters on the right actually buy into such a transparently shallow cheap political trick. The ratio of press coverage from the right to *actual* wrongdoing uncovered is staggering. Benghazi, email server, now this - countless hours of air time and hearings and nothing to show for it in the real world outside of their false narrative.
I will never understand their obsession with Hillary and how voters on the right actually buy into such a transparently shallow cheap political trick. The ratio of press coverage from the right to *actual* wrongdoing uncovered is staggering. Benghazi, email server, now this - countless hours of air time and hearings and nothing to show for it in the real world outside of their false narrative.
I know you ask a rhetorical question, Brad, but in answer to "their obsession with Hillary," I'm pretty sure it's about misogyny and the fact that Hillary represents their worst fear; a bright, experienced and very capable female. Hillary can be off-putting, perhaps elitist, but I voted for her because she damn well knew how to get the job done.
Attempts to discredit her began years before she ran for any office. She was too independent to suit the local tastes when she was Arkansas First Lady.
I was living in Arkansas at the time and I was very impressed with Hillary! When she addressed a group her speeches were intelligent. She helped families and championed for children. But in Arkansas even the women are my misogynistic. Really baffled my mind that the people being helped didnтАЩt appreciate her. But oh the women loved Bill!
The obsession with Hillary taps into a huge powder keg of misogyny festering in the world but especially in the USAтАФmost American men love women especially the ones who shut up and let them control the narrative.
I'm not sure that she's an elitist. If she were male, it wouldn`t be an issue. There is something about her that is off-putting, but she has done such amazing work for others, and I think she just doesn't suffer fools.
Exactly! What/who ARE these тАЬelitesтАЭ which the repubs constantly vilify? Are they simply ppl with an education? Ginny and Clarence Thomas are critical of тАЬthe elites.тАЭ If they arenтАЩt two what are they?
Aspergers isn't a disease but a different way the brain and nervous system develop. Often these folks have a higher than average intellectual ability (Albert Einstein, Bill Gates, Elon Musk) with a trade-off, though, in social and emotional skills. The condition is now classified "on the autistic spectrum", which may or may not be good. It is good in that we can now get services paid for when a person with Aspergers needs help "navigating a neurotypical world." But, being lumped in with people who cannot connect with others tends to define and often stigmatize these folks so that many a) don't realize they have it, and b) if they do, don't want to reveal it. I didn't list famous women - not because there aren't famous women with Aspergers, but because in my experience they are often not diagnosed, or don't reveal it. It's a dilemma that I hope the next generation is much more at ease with.
Yes, Mary Pat. Thank you for posting. My 19 year-old daughter is gifted, makes great grades, is going to college, will likely get a PHD in history. Additionally, she is high-functioning (AspergerтАЩs) on the autism spectrum. The bad a$$ she is, she owns it, tells people up front upon meeting. So very many of us (myriad in academia and other brainy careers) are not truly, completely neurotypical. Our quirks make us more interesting.
I also shared how you perceived Hillary during her campaign and was both surprised and disappointed when she used her open mike to denigrate rural folks and other deplorables.
Because, I have friends who live out in the sticks, and, I don't think they are deplorable. Many of them are the hardest workers and the most honest people of my lifetime.
It is regrettable that Clinton had absolutely zero margin of error in her words, actions, dress, mannerisms. Unquantifiable resentments were manufactured on a massive scale. And the key word that you used is "perceive". Let's face the truth. She was/is an extremely powerful woman and that is still a big no no in America today. Meanwhile trump was in the process of literally destroying us with his campaign rhetoric and no one said a word.
I have never ever heard of a policy driven thing that Clinton said being used as a reason for not liking her. We must stop this if women are going to move through the misogyny concrete wall. And frankly it is way past time for women to stop tearing each other down without clear cause.
I recognized my internalized misogyny when I prefer Ken Jennings over Mayim Bialik on Jeopardy and my husbandтАЩs preferences are the opposite. I also recognized it when Hillary was running in that I would say, тАЬI donтАЩt like her, but IтАЩll vote for her.тАЭ (I was for Bernie) Did you ever notice that we call women by their first names and men by their surnames? Hillary, Kamala, Trump, Biden, Clinton. Except for Bernie.
When I go back home to the sticks, I lots of trump flags and F U Biden stickers on pickup trucks. I hear folks talking about schools shouldnтАЩt be talking about racism.
I know these people; I grew up with them. They would help me if I needed it. But there is a very deep vein of prejudice that runs through this land. ThereтАЩs very little willingness to help тАЬothersтАЭ who arenтАЩt like them.
The deplorables comment was a prime example of the huge double standards in the two candidates. Drump could attack, bully, and name-call anyone and everyone, and it was fine. Hillary having an opinion, and it dooms and haunts her.
Mike, I had the impression she was referring to street gangs - not rural working folks ... if I recall, there was a lot of gangsta activity, dealing crack and other heavy chemicals and who knows what else, including gang war scenarios in the urban environment, expanding into more rural areas ... given that many of those folks have little or no confidence that "the system" and it's laws are there to serve and protect them (and it is true, isn't it?) ... in their own world, they are working too - caught up in deplorable circumstances where they grow up knowing they have to join up in their own groups and fight for their survival - it seems to me like there is not much choice about that - you do it, or you do it ....
I remember when she was named тАЬmost admired woman,тАЭ then a short time later, she announced her campaign. I thought, at that moment, Fox is revving up the propaganda machine. I was not wrong.
Trump cannot abide the possibility that a woman defied him and beat him at anything never mind the popular vote in an election. How dare she? In his warped world such an event is psychologically impossible and thus must be made out to be "illegitimate", obtained by cheating and lying.....wonderful projection.
I think Jimmy Carter is right up there with Hill. Certainly President Carter was very under-appreciated during his term...plus Reagan pulled an under-handed (but typical) stunt on President Carter.
you are so right, the dirty tricks have been republican standard. Sort of like Nixon and his underhanded communication re negotiations to end the war in 1968. I remember some of that, but the truth didn't surface until decades later. I have learned one thing in my long life. Republicans play dirty, always. All the while pretending such self-righteous religious high ground. it's better than Goebbels.
It's more like the R's know how to game the electoral system...the way the R's have gerrymandered their districts, it's easy for a Dem to win the popular vote. Not so easy to win enough electoral votes to win the election.
The R's have been angling at "control by minority" for three or four decades, at least. I have often heard it said that R's play chess while the D's play checkers. Partly, that is because of the natures of the two parties...the D's offer a big tent and therefore must run their campaigns to address the wide range of interests and causes of their diverse voter base. The R's voter base isn't quite as diverse and the R's can focus their messaging and control much of what their base hears and/or believes.
ItтАЩs always easier for repubs to focus messaging on lies and smoke screens. Their base doesnтАЩt seem to notice or care and the politicians donтАЩt have to remember their promises or lies. Except when video shows the truth. Then we have gaslighting. Sigh!!
... as in "hot air" (Empty, exaggerated (vaporous) talk ... interesting to note, also the name of "the leading conservative blog for breaking news and commentary covering the Biden administration, politics, media, culture, and current election" ...: HotAir.
I am old enough to remember when Secretary Clinton made her first blooper. A new First Lady of Arkansas, she made a statement about not being "one of those women who stays home and bakes cookies." Oh, dear, and she is still doing it. Remember the hysterics over "deplorables." She is a brilliant, competent, honest, caring woman, and hopeless at the game of politics. Who knows why this particular set of qualities in this one woman set off the dedicated and decades' long attacks. From the beginning, Hating Hillary became a cottage industry in this country. There was a wonderful cartoon in The New Yorker. A man is pulled over by a traffic cop who stands at the rolled down window of the car, writing a ticket. The driver says, "But what about Hillary's emails??" I am a huge Hillary Clinton fan. She has done as much for women and children as any ten other people put together, but we have made ourselves a country that doesn't value women and children.
Oh I loved it, too, but it was political death. Like Clinton, every bit of trouble I've had in my life has come as the result of running my mouth. Truly. I'm trying to practice the Buddhist wisdom that says, quite clearly, "If you cannot improve the silence, do not speak."
Political death? She rose to the height of Secretary of State, and was the first female candidate to be the nominee for a major party, and won the popular vote. ThatтАЩs hardly political death. Imagine to what heights she might have risen without the misogyny.
So amazing that HillaryтАЩs really inconsequential comments and actions are remembered and held up as roadblocks and shortcomings, like the cookie comment. And maybe even a game changer. But a manтАЩs off hand remarks are ignored, forgotten or explained. Could that be an example of misogyny!? (Rhetorical question).
It seems that the GOPтАЩs stories about Hillary, wiretapping, unsubstantiated criminal activity are smokescreens and deliberate distractions from the illegal and continuing revelations about TFGтАЩs and other repubsтАЩ proven roles in 1/6, their own election corruption, and the lies that we learn about daily. Even now, the focus on TFG continues. HeтАЩs out of office but constantly in the news. From the deliberate mishandling of government and WH and classified documents to his private and questionable financial accounting deals, the never ending attention keeps him and his cronies in the news. Free publicity. And a significant number of voters are still waving trump flags.
Unlike many commenters here, Hillary Clinton is a hero to me. As a young woman starting my career in DC, when she was First Lady, I saw her as a model of what women could achieve (and it wasnтАЩt baking cookies). I admired her then, and still do. She was subjected to a thirty-year campaign to discredit her, with the goal of defeating her if and when she ever ran for president. It worked. I see the exact same thing happening to AOC now. A strong, talented woman must be put back in her place. It infuriates me.
Yes. I get so angry with people who say тАЬthereтАЩs something about her that rubs me the wrong way.тАЭ Whoever тАЬherтАЭ is, be it Clinton, Harris, AOC, or even Cheney. Yes, I know, itтАЩs the fact that sheтАЩs a woman, even if youтАЩre not self aware enough to see that. Clinton was a role model for me when I was a young woman - and there werenтАЩt many like her to fill that role. She blazed trails for all of us who come after. SheтАЩs one of the giants on whose shoulders successful women stand. Not the only one, of course, but one for sure.
Yes! Hillary is a brilliant and accomplished woman! A fact that for many who expected her to cower and silence herself, causes an immediate negative reaction. One perceived mistake and women carry it around forever. Even if itтАЩs not hers or itтАЩs not important. Elizabeth Warren and the Native American claim is an example. Politics is not just in government and elections. ItтАЩs the expectations and the public criticism that often shuts down or destroys those who dare to challenge.
As we saw with President Obama, there are times when too much self-control is unnatural, times when a spontaneous response is called for. Now, I am perfectly aware that, whatever Mrs. Clinton did or did not do would be held against her by people whose brains have been so addled by watching too much lousy acting in TV soap operas that theyтАЩre quite unable to tell the difference between genuine and fake behavior.
If that werenтАЩt so, weтАЩd not be here, discussing ad nauseam the psychiatric case of the century.
That said, I was bitterly disappointed by Mrs. CтАЩs failure to break off and put the creep in his place when, in the so-called тАЬdebateтАЭ, he began his prize-fighter act circling around her. Likewise the moderator, who remained silent during this disgusting display.
I once visited a woolly monkey sanctuary in England where a senior female came in to meet the humansтАФplainly quite poised and used to performing her act. Before her entry, we were told weтАЩd not be meeting a mature male as theyтАЩre touchy and strong, so wrong behavior during an encounter could be dangerous. We were, however, warned that we should behave respectfully, as we would when meeting a woman with high status. People whoтАЩd been foolish enough to tease her had their ears boxed or their nose twisted. The slobтАФa polite term for this oneтАФmore than deserved the verbal equivalent.
There are times when nature knows better than culture, whether that of the gutter of or of тАЬpolite societyтАЭ.
YouтАЩre a man. I too wished sheтАЩd told him to back off, but let me tell you, years and years of knowing that thatтАЩs not a safe thing for a woman to do are not easy to overcome. IтАЩd ask that we donтАЩt judge Clinton too harshly for that. Judge Trump and the moderator instead.
Thank you, Ashley! We have each otherтАЩs backs! (I knew we would). Hey - I had my nine month recheck today - still all clear, still no evidence of disease! I think I will sleep well tonight for a change.
A strong, talented woman isnтАЩt the problem - those are positive attributes. ItтАЩs believing that a woman needs to be тАЬput back in her placeтАЭ that is the real problem. Freedom is the ability to choose your own place, whether itтАЩs baking cookies or leading a country or whatever. Republican ideology (and Christianity) is based on an authoritative father figure. Everyone must obey the father (as in father knows best) in order for the system to work properly. A woman with her own opinions and ideas 100% breaks down that system. Thus no reproductive choice, no equal rights for women, no equal pay for equal work - no anything that elevates anyone to the same or higher level than the authoritative father figure. CanтАЩt have the system breaking down, even if it means losing our Democracy. Ugh! Yes, KR (OH), it IS infuriating!
Hillary is what is known as "an easy target". Why?
Well, honestly, most of the reason is associated with what I am sure even she now feels was a mistake in marrying Bill Clinton.
Hillary did not just stick with Bill as he cheated on her and abused women commonly down in Arkansas as Governor, she hired attack dog law firms to destroy the women's reputations.
Now, perhaps early on, Bill was lying to Hillary and she believed him so some of the early attacks against women? Well, folks could maybe forgive.
But, later on?? Time after time after time? Hillary STILL sent in the attack dog lawfirms to erase the reputaions of the women Bill Clinton abused.........
At any rate, who knows what Hillary could have been without the mess of Bill Clinton hanging around her neck?
I guess she probably could have accomplished a LOT more and certainly been a LOT happier woman than she appears to be now.
Now, she seems bitter and angry (forgive me for this perception, maybe she is not but that is what I hear when she talks and I read her tweets in various publications).
In general, it is not women who are a liability (publicly or otherwise) to their spouse's career. I agree that Hillary's response to the abhorrent behavior of Bill was a bad choice and it enabled him to continue his destructive ways-something that has been witnessed repeatedly throughout history. If the roles had been reversed, most likely the man would have been saluted for defending his spouse!
I can't speculate on her "happiness", but I met Hillary once, have heard her speak, read some of her books and in my most limited observations she comes across as very comfortable with who she is, personable with a sense of humor. With all she has been through (the good, the bad, and the ugly), IMO she has aged well and has used that experience (missteps and all) to mentor. And, another very female (traditional role) observation, it appears she did a great job raising Chelsea!
If Hillary had not met and fallen in love with Willian Jefferson Clinton she most likely would have remained a Republican and probably would have held a high position in the RNC (although it's unlikely that she would have achieved the Presidency, given the R penchant for misogyny)
Let's not forget that although Bill Clinton was a hound dog who couldn't keep it in his pants...he was a Rhodes Scholar; an incredibly intelligent person who had a very good grasp of economics, government structure and politics. He had a style of campaigning that showcased his speaking charisma and ability to connect with Dem voters. Although reporters greatly missed GHW Bush's tangled and mangled syntax and occasionally startling mis-wordings, they all admitted it was a joy to report campaign speeches that contained discernable points with complete sentences that had nouns and verbs. Newt G. and the R's held all the cards and Clinton still battled him to a standstill more than once.
In my opinion, the wrong-headed precepts of the DLC and the lure of Wall Street money ruined the Dems...led them away from their traditional strongholds of labor, rainbow coalitions and championing the voiceless. The D's sunk into "middle of the road" (right centered) cowardliness. Texas Dem Jim Hightower had a famous line which stated that the only things in the middle of the road were yellow stripes and dead armadillos. Well, it was famous in Texas, anyway.
Demagoguery can have an effect like watching a circus. Three rings of unbelievable action (spectacle or тАЬshiny objects) work to completely overwhelm all our senses, add sideshow clowns running around further the distraction and level of overwhelm-ness. We welcome the ringmaster, who makes sense of it for us and we are left with a тАЬfeelingтАЭ that he serves us, the bewildered crowd. Why wouldnтАЩt we trust him, the тАЬredeemerтАЭ of our bewilderment.
I'd have felt more at ease with a character sporting horns and a tail. Really, not just metaphorically.
It was either criminal or criminal stupidity to vote for a gross slob who moved around a woman adversary like a cheap all-in wrestler from a hick town sideshow.
I who write this am not a Hillary fan, not because I doubt her competence but because to me she represents the 20th century.
But that is infinitely preferable to our current backsliding to behavior unworthy of baboons.
I respect and even admire baboons, their politics are clear and their survival instincts distinctly superior to those of today's supposedly civilized humans.
But I was floundering, looking for a word when I wrote that. And... the fact remains that "bestial" is way too kind a word for the depths to which humans can sink.
When Clinton and Obama were the frontrunners in the 2008 Democratic primary, one of my thoughts was: which is stronger, racism or misogyny? Obama won that primary, and went on to serve two terms as President. I know that white men are threatened by both Blacks and women. I still don't have a real answer to that question, but I do have a biased perspective on it.
Ally, very interesting way to look at 2008, when in my opinion, it was win/win either way. Unlike 2016, when misogyny and racism overpowered the system.
Liberals will spend a LOT of time fretting and denouncing. Look at the amount of time on this board. The right knows how to suck the air out of our sails. We spend MORE time fretting than organizing an alternate universe of cooperative businesses, green energy systems, and safe and secure neighborhoods ---
because no one on this board is discussing key progressive values, ethics and proposals. We worry about fabrications from the right .........
I think that there is plenty of discussion and demonstration of progressive values, ethics, and proposals. What is discussed is how to counter the utter garbage coming from the right that seems to worm its way into the amygdalae of the "base" and become their truth.
Brad, when the GOP eventually gain the House, Hillary Clinton will need to take cover. The GOP are hell bent on ruining her and her family just like they are with the Bidens.
In line at the grocery store last night, the tabloids had front page "news" how much "proof" there is that will bury both the Bidens and Hillary Clinton. It certainly begs the question of who "they" are and what "proof" they have . I laughed at the carnival style headlines, but how many people actually believe it.
They are clowns with flamethrowers (I stole that). The Enquirer was on chump's team all the way. David Pecker helped him determine the headlines. Probably did it this time.
I'm proud to say I don't know which tabloid had that headline, but all of the others had the same Biden bashing front cover. Aren't the tabloids all owned by the same corporation? I can't imagine how flat out stupid I would have to be to believe a word they say.
I will never understand their obsession with Hillary and how voters on the right actually buy into such a transparently shallow cheap political trick. The ratio of press coverage from the right to *actual* wrongdoing uncovered is staggering. Benghazi, email server, now this - countless hours of air time and hearings and nothing to show for it in the real world outside of their false narrative.
I know you ask a rhetorical question, Brad, but in answer to "their obsession with Hillary," I'm pretty sure it's about misogyny and the fact that Hillary represents their worst fear; a bright, experienced and very capable female. Hillary can be off-putting, perhaps elitist, but I voted for her because she damn well knew how to get the job done.
Attempts to discredit her began years before she ran for any office. She was too independent to suit the local tastes when she was Arkansas First Lady.
I was living in Arkansas at the time and I was very impressed with Hillary! When she addressed a group her speeches were intelligent. She helped families and championed for children. But in Arkansas even the women are my misogynistic. Really baffled my mind that the people being helped didnтАЩt appreciate her. But oh the women loved Bill!
It's socialization. I've seen it in Alabama. Women are to reflect the views of their husband (or father).
Yes! I see it in Texas too. Women voting as their husbands and ministers tell them.
yep
True for the smartest woman I have known, he ruled
Yep, and vote repub, come hтВмll or high water!
When women disparage other women who are strong and intelligent, I think it's b/c of jealousy.
The obsession with Hillary taps into a huge powder keg of misogyny festering in the world but especially in the USAтАФmost American men love women especially the ones who shut up and let them control the narrative.
So glad to have found one the opposite
I'm not sure that she's an elitist. If she were male, it wouldn`t be an issue. There is something about her that is off-putting, but she has done such amazing work for others, and I think she just doesn't suffer fools.
What, after all, is "an elitist"? a meaningless insult from someone less educated, poised, and smart, too lazy to lift their own standards?
Exactly! What/who ARE these тАЬelitesтАЭ which the repubs constantly vilify? Are they simply ppl with an education? Ginny and Clarence Thomas are critical of тАЬthe elites.тАЭ If they arenтАЩt two what are they?
They are fools of the highest order
Agreed. (heart not working)
Hillary reminds me of a friend who has Aspergers Syndrome.
I think Hillary just has Bill's Syndrome.
A much worse disease to be sure.
Aspergers isn't a disease but a different way the brain and nervous system develop. Often these folks have a higher than average intellectual ability (Albert Einstein, Bill Gates, Elon Musk) with a trade-off, though, in social and emotional skills. The condition is now classified "on the autistic spectrum", which may or may not be good. It is good in that we can now get services paid for when a person with Aspergers needs help "navigating a neurotypical world." But, being lumped in with people who cannot connect with others tends to define and often stigmatize these folks so that many a) don't realize they have it, and b) if they do, don't want to reveal it. I didn't list famous women - not because there aren't famous women with Aspergers, but because in my experience they are often not diagnosed, or don't reveal it. It's a dilemma that I hope the next generation is much more at ease with.
Yes, Mary Pat. Thank you for posting. My 19 year-old daughter is gifted, makes great grades, is going to college, will likely get a PHD in history. Additionally, she is high-functioning (AspergerтАЩs) on the autism spectrum. The bad a$$ she is, she owns it, tells people up front upon meeting. So very many of us (myriad in academia and other brainy careers) are not truly, completely neurotypical. Our quirks make us more interesting.
WhatтАЩs that?
Being married to Bill Clinton
Sophia,
I also shared how you perceived Hillary during her campaign and was both surprised and disappointed when she used her open mike to denigrate rural folks and other deplorables.
Because, I have friends who live out in the sticks, and, I don't think they are deplorable. Many of them are the hardest workers and the most honest people of my lifetime.
It is regrettable that Clinton had absolutely zero margin of error in her words, actions, dress, mannerisms. Unquantifiable resentments were manufactured on a massive scale. And the key word that you used is "perceive". Let's face the truth. She was/is an extremely powerful woman and that is still a big no no in America today. Meanwhile trump was in the process of literally destroying us with his campaign rhetoric and no one said a word.
I have never ever heard of a policy driven thing that Clinton said being used as a reason for not liking her. We must stop this if women are going to move through the misogyny concrete wall. And frankly it is way past time for women to stop tearing each other down without clear cause.
I recognized my internalized misogyny when I prefer Ken Jennings over Mayim Bialik on Jeopardy and my husbandтАЩs preferences are the opposite. I also recognized it when Hillary was running in that I would say, тАЬI donтАЩt like her, but IтАЩll vote for her.тАЭ (I was for Bernie) Did you ever notice that we call women by their first names and men by their surnames? Hillary, Kamala, Trump, Biden, Clinton. Except for Bernie.
ЁЯСПЁЯСПЁЯСПЁЯСПЁЯСПЁЯСПЁЯСП
Double standard, that nobody ever apologizes for
Mike, I thought (mostly) the same about my neighbors in the sticks, but then came the election... I see them now with a jaundiced eye.
When I go back home to the sticks, I lots of trump flags and F U Biden stickers on pickup trucks. I hear folks talking about schools shouldnтАЩt be talking about racism.
I know these people; I grew up with them. They would help me if I needed it. But there is a very deep vein of prejudice that runs through this land. ThereтАЩs very little willingness to help тАЬothersтАЭ who arenтАЩt like them.
my disappointing experience as well
And many are vulnerable to propaganda, I know many who I thought were the salt of the earth. Turned out to be LotтАЩs wife
The deplorables comment was a prime example of the huge double standards in the two candidates. Drump could attack, bully, and name-call anyone and everyone, and it was fine. Hillary having an opinion, and it dooms and haunts her.
Well said. Thank You.
Mike, I had the impression she was referring to street gangs - not rural working folks ... if I recall, there was a lot of gangsta activity, dealing crack and other heavy chemicals and who knows what else, including gang war scenarios in the urban environment, expanding into more rural areas ... given that many of those folks have little or no confidence that "the system" and it's laws are there to serve and protect them (and it is true, isn't it?) ... in their own world, they are working too - caught up in deplorable circumstances where they grow up knowing they have to join up in their own groups and fight for their survival - it seems to me like there is not much choice about that - you do it, or you do it ....
Comey destroyed my illusion of fairness. Such a put up job.
Yes, her experience, her skills, her intelligence.....
I absolutely agree. Thank you for your words.
ItтАЩs also payback for her 1970тАЩs work during Watergate against Nixon.
Repubs donтАЩt forget. Revenge is everything. Chump fit right in
I remember when she was named тАЬmost admired woman,тАЭ then a short time later, she announced her campaign. I thought, at that moment, Fox is revving up the propaganda machine. I was not wrong.
Exactly what I was thinking. Thanks for saying it!
Trump cannot abide the possibility that a woman defied him and beat him at anything never mind the popular vote in an election. How dare she? In his warped world such an event is psychologically impossible and thus must be made out to be "illegitimate", obtained by cheating and lying.....wonderful projection.
Remember how he stalked her on stage? That alone should have been enough to put him out of the running. He was ridiculous.
Everything he did should have taken him out of the election! It never made any sense!
Never. It was heartbreaking. Sickening.
Still angry that the moderator did not put a stop to that ridiculous physical comedy.
Always hear the theme from JAWS when I see that video.
Hillary won about 3 million more popular votesтАФwomen voted like mad for herтАФBuT the Russians knew how to sabotage our electoral system.
Yes, we need to remember that she won the popular vote. Soundly.
I hope she remembers that. She is the most slandered pol in my lifetime, and IтАЩm really old.
I think Jimmy Carter is right up there with Hill. Certainly President Carter was very under-appreciated during his term...plus Reagan pulled an under-handed (but typical) stunt on President Carter.
you are so right, the dirty tricks have been republican standard. Sort of like Nixon and his underhanded communication re negotiations to end the war in 1968. I remember some of that, but the truth didn't surface until decades later. I have learned one thing in my long life. Republicans play dirty, always. All the while pretending such self-righteous religious high ground. it's better than Goebbels.
It's more like the R's know how to game the electoral system...the way the R's have gerrymandered their districts, it's easy for a Dem to win the popular vote. Not so easy to win enough electoral votes to win the election.
The R's have been angling at "control by minority" for three or four decades, at least. I have often heard it said that R's play chess while the D's play checkers. Partly, that is because of the natures of the two parties...the D's offer a big tent and therefore must run their campaigns to address the wide range of interests and causes of their diverse voter base. The R's voter base isn't quite as diverse and the R's can focus their messaging and control much of what their base hears and/or believes.
ItтАЩs always easier for repubs to focus messaging on lies and smoke screens. Their base doesnтАЩt seem to notice or care and the politicians donтАЩt have to remember their promises or lies. Except when video shows the truth. Then we have gaslighting. Sigh!!
Stuart, exactly right. tRump cannot tolerate that a woman/Hillary could possibly have pointed out (by winning the popular vote) that he's a LOSER!
All is true that the reason heтАЩs a LOSER is that heтАЩs a LIAR and heтАЩs a NUTJOB who should be incarcerated for his own good.
Exacta Mundo
The Italian term for this is "aria fritta" -- fried air.
Meaning as substantial as fried air? Well said, Italians!
... as in "hot air" (Empty, exaggerated (vaporous) talk ... interesting to note, also the name of "the leading conservative blog for breaking news and commentary covering the Biden administration, politics, media, culture, and current election" ...: HotAir.
Me encanta.
I am old enough to remember when Secretary Clinton made her first blooper. A new First Lady of Arkansas, she made a statement about not being "one of those women who stays home and bakes cookies." Oh, dear, and she is still doing it. Remember the hysterics over "deplorables." She is a brilliant, competent, honest, caring woman, and hopeless at the game of politics. Who knows why this particular set of qualities in this one woman set off the dedicated and decades' long attacks. From the beginning, Hating Hillary became a cottage industry in this country. There was a wonderful cartoon in The New Yorker. A man is pulled over by a traffic cop who stands at the rolled down window of the car, writing a ticket. The driver says, "But what about Hillary's emails??" I am a huge Hillary Clinton fan. She has done as much for women and children as any ten other people put together, but we have made ourselves a country that doesn't value women and children.
I found her cookie statement not a blooper, but an empowerment of what I myself was doing too. Perspective is interesting, isnтАЩt it?
Oh I loved it, too, but it was political death. Like Clinton, every bit of trouble I've had in my life has come as the result of running my mouth. Truly. I'm trying to practice the Buddhist wisdom that says, quite clearly, "If you cannot improve the silence, do not speak."
Political death? She rose to the height of Secretary of State, and was the first female candidate to be the nominee for a major party, and won the popular vote. ThatтАЩs hardly political death. Imagine to what heights she might have risen without the misogyny.
Perspective can be everything! Great when we can see it from myriad, right?
тЭдя╕П
So amazing that HillaryтАЩs really inconsequential comments and actions are remembered and held up as roadblocks and shortcomings, like the cookie comment. And maybe even a game changer. But a manтАЩs off hand remarks are ignored, forgotten or explained. Could that be an example of misogyny!? (Rhetorical question).
It seems that the GOPтАЩs stories about Hillary, wiretapping, unsubstantiated criminal activity are smokescreens and deliberate distractions from the illegal and continuing revelations about TFGтАЩs and other repubsтАЩ proven roles in 1/6, their own election corruption, and the lies that we learn about daily. Even now, the focus on TFG continues. HeтАЩs out of office but constantly in the news. From the deliberate mishandling of government and WH and classified documents to his private and questionable financial accounting deals, the never ending attention keeps him and his cronies in the news. Free publicity. And a significant number of voters are still waving trump flags.
My thoughts exactly. They are still throwing crap to the media at rapid fire pace.
Unlike many commenters here, Hillary Clinton is a hero to me. As a young woman starting my career in DC, when she was First Lady, I saw her as a model of what women could achieve (and it wasnтАЩt baking cookies). I admired her then, and still do. She was subjected to a thirty-year campaign to discredit her, with the goal of defeating her if and when she ever ran for president. It worked. I see the exact same thing happening to AOC now. A strong, talented woman must be put back in her place. It infuriates me.
100%, and the veep
Yes. I get so angry with people who say тАЬthereтАЩs something about her that rubs me the wrong way.тАЭ Whoever тАЬherтАЭ is, be it Clinton, Harris, AOC, or even Cheney. Yes, I know, itтАЩs the fact that sheтАЩs a woman, even if youтАЩre not self aware enough to see that. Clinton was a role model for me when I was a young woman - and there werenтАЩt many like her to fill that role. She blazed trails for all of us who come after. SheтАЩs one of the giants on whose shoulders successful women stand. Not the only one, of course, but one for sure.
THIS!!!!!
тЭдя╕П Ally! Somehow I canтАЩt like comments again today.
Yes! Hillary is a brilliant and accomplished woman! A fact that for many who expected her to cower and silence herself, causes an immediate negative reaction. One perceived mistake and women carry it around forever. Even if itтАЩs not hers or itтАЩs not important. Elizabeth Warren and the Native American claim is an example. Politics is not just in government and elections. ItтАЩs the expectations and the public criticism that often shuts down or destroys those who dare to challenge.
As we saw with President Obama, there are times when too much self-control is unnatural, times when a spontaneous response is called for. Now, I am perfectly aware that, whatever Mrs. Clinton did or did not do would be held against her by people whose brains have been so addled by watching too much lousy acting in TV soap operas that theyтАЩre quite unable to tell the difference between genuine and fake behavior.
If that werenтАЩt so, weтАЩd not be here, discussing ad nauseam the psychiatric case of the century.
That said, I was bitterly disappointed by Mrs. CтАЩs failure to break off and put the creep in his place when, in the so-called тАЬdebateтАЭ, he began his prize-fighter act circling around her. Likewise the moderator, who remained silent during this disgusting display.
I once visited a woolly monkey sanctuary in England where a senior female came in to meet the humansтАФplainly quite poised and used to performing her act. Before her entry, we were told weтАЩd not be meeting a mature male as theyтАЩre touchy and strong, so wrong behavior during an encounter could be dangerous. We were, however, warned that we should behave respectfully, as we would when meeting a woman with high status. People whoтАЩd been foolish enough to tease her had their ears boxed or their nose twisted. The slobтАФa polite term for this oneтАФmore than deserved the verbal equivalent.
There are times when nature knows better than culture, whether that of the gutter of or of тАЬpolite societyтАЭ.
YouтАЩre a man. I too wished sheтАЩd told him to back off, but let me tell you, years and years of knowing that thatтАЩs not a safe thing for a woman to do are not easy to overcome. IтАЩd ask that we donтАЩt judge Clinton too harshly for that. Judge Trump and the moderator instead.
I don't judge her and don't want to judge anyone, but I'm deeply disgusted by lack of respect for women.
And even more disgusted by a society in which one wing -- the feminine -- is pinioned.
I stand right along side you, KR!
Thank you, Ashley! We have each otherтАЩs backs! (I knew we would). Hey - I had my nine month recheck today - still all clear, still no evidence of disease! I think I will sleep well tonight for a change.
Congrats on the wonderful 9-month newsтЭгя╕П I will raise my glass to you this eve. ЁЯН╖
A strong, talented woman isnтАЩt the problem - those are positive attributes. ItтАЩs believing that a woman needs to be тАЬput back in her placeтАЭ that is the real problem. Freedom is the ability to choose your own place, whether itтАЩs baking cookies or leading a country or whatever. Republican ideology (and Christianity) is based on an authoritative father figure. Everyone must obey the father (as in father knows best) in order for the system to work properly. A woman with her own opinions and ideas 100% breaks down that system. Thus no reproductive choice, no equal rights for women, no equal pay for equal work - no anything that elevates anyone to the same or higher level than the authoritative father figure. CanтАЩt have the system breaking down, even if it means losing our Democracy. Ugh! Yes, KR (OH), it IS infuriating!
Not Christianity, the garbage that's served up as Christianity.
HRC broke all those rules
You nailed it!
Brad,
Hillary is what is known as "an easy target". Why?
Well, honestly, most of the reason is associated with what I am sure even she now feels was a mistake in marrying Bill Clinton.
Hillary did not just stick with Bill as he cheated on her and abused women commonly down in Arkansas as Governor, she hired attack dog law firms to destroy the women's reputations.
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/03/us/politics/hillary-bill-clinton-women.html
Now, perhaps early on, Bill was lying to Hillary and she believed him so some of the early attacks against women? Well, folks could maybe forgive.
But, later on?? Time after time after time? Hillary STILL sent in the attack dog lawfirms to erase the reputaions of the women Bill Clinton abused.........
At any rate, who knows what Hillary could have been without the mess of Bill Clinton hanging around her neck?
I guess she probably could have accomplished a LOT more and certainly been a LOT happier woman than she appears to be now.
Now, she seems bitter and angry (forgive me for this perception, maybe she is not but that is what I hear when she talks and I read her tweets in various publications).
Anyway, that's my thought.
In general, it is not women who are a liability (publicly or otherwise) to their spouse's career. I agree that Hillary's response to the abhorrent behavior of Bill was a bad choice and it enabled him to continue his destructive ways-something that has been witnessed repeatedly throughout history. If the roles had been reversed, most likely the man would have been saluted for defending his spouse!
I can't speculate on her "happiness", but I met Hillary once, have heard her speak, read some of her books and in my most limited observations she comes across as very comfortable with who she is, personable with a sense of humor. With all she has been through (the good, the bad, and the ugly), IMO she has aged well and has used that experience (missteps and all) to mentor. And, another very female (traditional role) observation, it appears she did a great job raising Chelsea!
There was a picture of the three of them when the trouble was acute, the adult Chelsea in the middle, firmly holding the hand of each parent.
Yup, that photo from 1998 said it all . . . Chelsea's maturity (she was 18 and a freshman at Stanford) was pretty amazing.
If Hillary had not met and fallen in love with Willian Jefferson Clinton she most likely would have remained a Republican and probably would have held a high position in the RNC (although it's unlikely that she would have achieved the Presidency, given the R penchant for misogyny)
Let's not forget that although Bill Clinton was a hound dog who couldn't keep it in his pants...he was a Rhodes Scholar; an incredibly intelligent person who had a very good grasp of economics, government structure and politics. He had a style of campaigning that showcased his speaking charisma and ability to connect with Dem voters. Although reporters greatly missed GHW Bush's tangled and mangled syntax and occasionally startling mis-wordings, they all admitted it was a joy to report campaign speeches that contained discernable points with complete sentences that had nouns and verbs. Newt G. and the R's held all the cards and Clinton still battled him to a standstill more than once.
In my opinion, the wrong-headed precepts of the DLC and the lure of Wall Street money ruined the Dems...led them away from their traditional strongholds of labor, rainbow coalitions and championing the voiceless. The D's sunk into "middle of the road" (right centered) cowardliness. Texas Dem Jim Hightower had a famous line which stated that the only things in the middle of the road were yellow stripes and dead armadillos. Well, it was famous in Texas, anyway.
Sorry - DLC? Urban dictionary says it means downloadable content.
Democratic Leadership Council
тАЬconcentration dissolves in his spectacleтАЭ
Demagoguery can have an effect like watching a circus. Three rings of unbelievable action (spectacle or тАЬshiny objects) work to completely overwhelm all our senses, add sideshow clowns running around further the distraction and level of overwhelm-ness. We welcome the ringmaster, who makes sense of it for us and we are left with a тАЬfeelingтАЭ that he serves us, the bewildered crowd. Why wouldnтАЩt we trust him, the тАЬredeemerтАЭ of our bewilderment.
I'd have felt more at ease with a character sporting horns and a tail. Really, not just metaphorically.
It was either criminal or criminal stupidity to vote for a gross slob who moved around a woman adversary like a cheap all-in wrestler from a hick town sideshow.
I who write this am not a Hillary fan, not because I doubt her competence but because to me she represents the 20th century.
But that is infinitely preferable to our current backsliding to behavior unworthy of baboons.
Oh please, donтАЩt denigrate baboons
Sorry, you're dead right.
I respect and even admire baboons, their politics are clear and their survival instincts distinctly superior to those of today's supposedly civilized humans.
But I was floundering, looking for a word when I wrote that. And... the fact remains that "bestial" is way too kind a word for the depths to which humans can sink.
As we are having the misfortune to witness.
Love the story about the alpha baboons hogging all the poisonous food, and the females had to take over. Hope you saw it....
No, where's that? I'd like to see it. The alpha males do what they like, but the leader knows what he's doing...
You're right! That's exactly what he looked like.
When Clinton and Obama were the frontrunners in the 2008 Democratic primary, one of my thoughts was: which is stronger, racism or misogyny? Obama won that primary, and went on to serve two terms as President. I know that white men are threatened by both Blacks and women. I still don't have a real answer to that question, but I do have a biased perspective on it.
Ally, very interesting way to look at 2008, when in my opinion, it was win/win either way. Unlike 2016, when misogyny and racism overpowered the system.
the forever corundum
Brad - the obsession lives within liberals.
Liberals will spend a LOT of time fretting and denouncing. Look at the amount of time on this board. The right knows how to suck the air out of our sails. We spend MORE time fretting than organizing an alternate universe of cooperative businesses, green energy systems, and safe and secure neighborhoods ---
because no one on this board is discussing key progressive values, ethics and proposals. We worry about fabrications from the right .........
I think that there is plenty of discussion and demonstration of progressive values, ethics, and proposals. What is discussed is how to counter the utter garbage coming from the right that seems to worm its way into the amygdalae of the "base" and become their truth.
As does the media
Brad, when the GOP eventually gain the House, Hillary Clinton will need to take cover. The GOP are hell bent on ruining her and her family just like they are with the Bidens.
In line at the grocery store last night, the tabloids had front page "news" how much "proof" there is that will bury both the Bidens and Hillary Clinton. It certainly begs the question of who "they" are and what "proof" they have . I laughed at the carnival style headlines, but how many people actually believe it.
They are clowns with flamethrowers (I stole that). The Enquirer was on chump's team all the way. David Pecker helped him determine the headlines. Probably did it this time.
That is exactly what they are.
I'm proud to say I don't know which tabloid had that headline, but all of the others had the same Biden bashing front cover. Aren't the tabloids all owned by the same corporation? I can't imagine how flat out stupid I would have to be to believe a word they say.
Wish I had written this, why watching the тАЬnewsтАЭ is torturous. тАЬTransparently shallow cheap political trickтАЭ ad nauseam
In ...still relevant.....the Turner Diaries......the effectiveness of the reversed victim/perpetrator position is a core strategy.
Hillary is a devout Trumplican fan clickbait topic. Just begin saying, "Lock her up..." and the emotions begin igniting quickly.