Today’s two big domestic stories are developments that will help to determine the future of our democracy: President Biden’s insistence on a major new coronavirus relief bill and Trump’s role in the January 6 insurrection.
The GOP definition of unity and bipartisanship is, "Do it our way". I kept hearing news people last night talking about 'finding middle ground', 'meeting in the middle', as if this were some weird kind of geometry problem. Take a 24" line and find the mid-point and that is the answer. No nuance, no context, just equal measure for each side. That's not bipartisanship, that's not fairness. That's math.
Regarding the other elephant in the room - the impeachment trial, a friend tipped me to an Australian documentary on the insurrection that was far more complete than I've seen on US TV. "The Downfall of Donald Trump" https://iview.abc.net.au/show/four-corners/series/2021
If the Senate does not convict Trump, we might just as well turn the country over to the Proud Boys and their ilk, because we won't have a country any longer. The fact that the GOP is still pretending that what happened January 6th was an aberration is ludicrous. When I hear people say, "That's not who we are.", I want to scream, "That is PRECISELY who we are" That's why HCRs history lessons are so incredibly valuable. Most of us only had a very skim of history in high school, long forgotten. We don't have true leaders of integrity anymore, or very few, at any rate. We've been like the frog in boiling water for over 50 years, not really seeing how much danger we are collectively in.
And yes, I am speaking as someone who has benefited from my white privilege all my life, often, I'm ashamed to say unaware of just how much it has buoyed me. I know things have been so much worse for my brothers and sisters of color.
I really feel we are at an inflection point as a country - we must deal with the inequality, racial and every other kind. We must quit believing the Trumpian POV that life is a zero sum game, and realize that, "Everybody does better when everybody does better".
I think that's what this community here is doing. and I am thankful for each and every one of you.
Right on the money, Sandra. The Cline Center report linked in HCR’s citations is also chilling. The Republican effort to minimize and normalize the events of Jan 6 must not be allowed to succeed.
Just, "WOW!" Thank you Sandra, for a beautifully written comment full of truth. And thanks for that link to the Australian documentary. We cannot have TOO much information about the back story on January 6, 2021.
Thank you for that documentary; I will watch it (well, at least listen to it) while I go about my morning activities. Your third paragraph summarizes exactly what my thoughts (much more scattered and less eloquent than yours) have been.
The thing that has been true since 1994 is that there is no more "middle ground" either philosophically or mathematically in the US. The attempt by the Obama administration to find "common ground" with the republicans in 2009 when he had to lead this country out of the economic recession that the republicans had created should serve as an illustration for President Biden that he cannot find middle ground with these scorched earthers. Offer a reasonable response (hint: what they have mentioned so far is not reasonable) and then steamroll them.
A comment I read months ago stated that there is no middle ground between facts and “bat-shit crazy”. As events have unfolded since November, I keep thinking of that.
Yes, middle ground - one party is already there! NOW its up to the Republicans to come to the "middle ground". Why is no one in Congress speaking that truth!
Sandra, you have precisely stated the facts of this matter. I am also climbing out of the white privilege cocoon to see the world & this nation really for the first time (many thanks to HCR and BLM). I'll be 70 this year & I fear for what America will be over the next decade and for my children & grandchild beyond that. I watched the Four Corners video. We were so close to complete tragedy. And *45 will not be convicted and then what? We have to stay strong and resist tyranny and be better than we were yesterday in all ways.
Thank you, Sandra for your wonderful comment and sharing the link. Reading comments like yours and several others in this community always give me a sense of hope.
Just watched the documentary. MANY thanks! I hope portions, if not all, can be used at the trial. The footage is exceptional; I don't know how the photographers managed to be so close to the horrific violence without themselves being harmed. Kudos to them.
Sandra, you're reading my mind, using the same words in my head: "ilk" popped into my head while watching the Australian documentary, and the frog in boiling water analogy.
Thank you for this link. I finished viewing this moments ago. I am truly frightened for our democracy. When Ford pardoned Nixon I was disappointed but eventually drank the Kool-Aid and began to think that perhaps the pardon was needed to heal the nation. WRONG. Instead, the lesson was that the events of Watergate would be tolerated, that you could go at least this far in destroying the nation and that going just a bit farther was all you needed. So we get Trump. He went more than a bit farther. And despite all he did to stir up the insurrectionists and rioters, the Republicans in the Senate will acquit him, sending the message loudly and clearly that violence against the government is perfectly fine with them. The third time the insurrectionists will likely succeed. And along with the Democrats and Independents and various minority members not a few Republicans will be swept up in the purge of non-believers that is bound?”
I watched on a PC. This is the second time this morning someone has commented on something not playing on their Ipad. The other was a Vimeo video, but people using laptops and desk tops had no problem, so it must be an interface issue.
My son-in-law writes apps for a software company and until he told me there has to be specific programming for each kind of device, I had no idea; I thought if it could be seen on one, it could be seen on any, but that's not so.
It's the same with their definition of "compromise." As in "Democrats need to compromise with us."
One needs a doublethink dictionary to understand all the right wing dog whistles. Like the way the use "reform" as a synonym for "destruction." As in "eduction reform."
Further proof that, with rare exception (and I say this as a former journalist), the average "reporter" is an over-educated, under-intelligent, otherwise-unemployable.
Is it just me, or how is $3,200 over the course of nearly a year do much? (Providing that perhaps $1400 is added to the $1200+$600 already paid to single people.). For some that might be a single month's mortgage, utilities, food, gas, essentials. It boggles me how wealthy politicians haggle back and forth so much on such a piddly amount for us that they don't even need themselves. People are so far behind on payments for everything, that I just don't understand how things go up from there. As Robert Reich points out taxing the mega rich will add billions to the economy and they will still be mega rich. I made donations to organizations with my checks to help those out of work. And put some in savings. I have been an essential food service worker at a school district helping prepare and give out over 500,000 free meals in 10 months. I am beat and exhausted. Let the schools safely open. I have faith in Joe Biden. Let's get this leadership team room to lead.
Well said, Jane and thank you for feeding our children. I, too, work in a school. We are every one of us exhausted! Please hang in there, we’ll get through this and better times will be ahead... times we can see each other’s smiles, and hug, and even walk hand in hand with a child. Snow day today, we sent home extra food with the children yesterday- just in case.
Thank you, Pamsy. To be honest, I don't feel like a hero. My neck, back, knee, thumb are all messed up from the repetitive motion, lifting, and standing. I used to love my job as a high school lunch lady. Now I cry on my way to work. I guess it's burnout. We all miss life the way it used to be.
Even better, some members of Congress are pushing for a pay rise for themselves on the basis that $138,000 (I think that is the number quoted) is not enough to live on with dignity. Of course that is more than I think over 80% of Americans make. But can’t have poor people actually surviving and perhaps beginning to gain some security. Oh no! Never that!
Their salary is $174K. They do have to maintain two places of residence. One in DC and one in their home state. Keeping two "homes" and travel back and forth to their districts is costly. That said, I think there is only one Senator who is not a millionaire. I don't know about Congressional members. Plus they are granted "allowances" for staffing, health insurance, "franking" privileges, etc. They have forged into law that their salaries will rise automatically so that they can say that they have nothing to do with their salary increases, "the law makes those decisions." Here's the agreement that controls their incomes. https://www.senate.gov/CRSpubs/9c14ec69-c4e4-4bd8-8953-f73daa1640e4.pdf
Well, Josh Hawley does not maintain a residence in Missouri--he has a million +$ house in Fairfax County, VA. He uses his sister's home as his "official" address in MO. And many have shared housing in DC--the stories about the boyz who shacked up with Gingrich in Georgetown in the 90s and Oughts are legendary. So between the subsidies and the salaries, I think most congresspeople do just fine.
Hawley is a outlier. I'm not arguing that "they aren't doing just fine." I'm arguing that they are all millionaires, that we need some regular people in Congress who can use the money. The members who "shacked up" did so because even renting a room in DC is prohibitive. It is one of the most expensive cities in the world.
AOC offers advice to newly-elected congresswoman on how to economically and sustainably afford Congress-appropriate clothing. (And remember, they have to show up dressed appropriately BEFORE they get their first paycheck!)
There are folks who earn slightly more than the income limit is set for who qualifies for economic relief. Many of them experienced pay cuts, and some 2 income families are now one income families. Kids in college, mortgages, car loans and much more, those expenses and the of living for them didn’t decrease. Is It a sin to point out that people are having a very difficult time even if they don’t make the ‘cut’.
Believe me, not for a moment do I suggest that no income and little food and no ‘basics’ compare, but many on the other side of the ‘line’ are getting clobbered as well.
Cynthia, I do understand this. But the same people who are in Congress complaining about their salaries are refusing to vote for a living minimum wage, for enhancing and extending unemployment benefits, for more money for food stamps and WIC, for a moratorium on foreclosures and evictions with support for landlords who also need to pay the bills, and for assistance to strapped state and local budgets to help out public and higher education, support homeless shelters, and pay for Covid remediation. So I have absolutely no sympathy for them. MLK said that elites get welfare and the poor get "rugged individualism." He was right. The few members of Congress who are not enjoying independent income over and above their salaries seem to have other ways of paying the bills. The whole Christian notion of "feed the poor, clothe the naked, heal the sick" is lost on these guys and gals and yet they hide under a bizarre banner of Christianity for their Antisemitic, sexist, and racist rhetoric.
Sorry for the screed, but in my way of thinking there is no moral equivalence between a disposable income in the top 20% (with the ability to do things like send children to college, pay for broadband internet, and cover their expenses with relatively little pain) and the situation of Black women whose average disposable income (i.e. not dedicated to basic substance) is $5. Literally: $5. And I am in that upper range of privileged white professionals. When the Waltons stop instructing their employees to register for food stamps and WIC because they don't pay them enough to keep them above the poverty line and agree to pay their workers a living wage, I'll stop griping about Congressional salaries.
There's an indirect way to edit using the Delete function. Highlight the text to be edited; delete the original post; copy it into a new one, then correct/revise to your heart's content.
I've lost al patience with the Press pressing Jen Psaki and other Biden folks to accept their narrow focus of "unity" only meaning to appease Republicans and moderate Democrats.
Unity means to bring "the whole" together and Biden more than once made the distinction he meant the whole country. Every President promises to work with the other side but that hasn't happened in decades.
When you hear the call for unity and see that 74% of all Americans are in favor of a big relief package and 400 Governors and Mayors from both parties are begging for life saving aid, you can see how Biden can fulfill his promise for unity.
Republicans tied to Trump are a lost cause, cut them loose and save the ship from sinking. They don't want unity, they want to retain power but 81 million Americans wanted something else.
Well said. I've been thinking that maybe "unity" should have less to do with compromise/agreement between Democrats and Republicans, but rather, have more to do with healing the divide between government and everyday Americans.
We can thank Ronny Ray-gun for starting that rumor - "I'm from the gubmit, and I'm here to help." He said they were the most dangerous words in the English language, and obviously a lot of people believed him.
It’s important to remember, I think, that Reagan stood on the broad shoulders of a wide and long swath of the American experience.
Before Reagan, there were the states’ rights klan, and the private enterprises supporting a racist government, from top to bottom. Even the northern economies depended upon southern slavery. And, going further back, to the founding of our country and, of course, 1619. So there’s our long shadow.
I believe that President Biden is the first national elected figure to call on America to begin to recover untold stories and shine the light on this shadow. I remember Biden referring to 1619, at some point of the campaign. THEN, I realized this man was prepared for this time.
So, I’m glad it's the month of February, at the time. There will be MANY stories told in the next four weeks. At this time, we can chart a new direction, so our actions will be a history of “liberty and justice for all"
Frederick, That's why I love history - it shows us the structure from the bottom up, time-wise. We get to see that everything is predicated on something that came before - decisions that were made, mistakes and right-thinking decisions, too.
We tend, as humans, I think, to think what we see before us is how it's always been, even when we 'know; better. What history allows - maybe forces us - to do is see context as well as content. Very important to understanding ourselves and our world.
I'm with you with regard to the ridiculous amount of time spent by members of the press asking for clarification in re Biden's definition of the word unity. Yesterday morning alone they flogged that dead beast for what seemed half the briefing.
Any suggestions for how an ordinary citizen can support a better quality press. I surely feel they share significant responsibility in getting us here. I wonder why they don’t have licensing boards and ethics like other professions.
The Fairness Doctrine helped to perform that role, but it was revoked in 1987. We need it again, not just to ensure "balance," but also fact-based reporting. A new FD must be stronger, and broadened to cover new non-broadcast media developed since 1987.
Back before the electronic age, I wrote a lot of Op-Ed letters (200 published between 1982 - 2000). Many of them actually criticized the newspaper or reporters for sensationalized or downright erroneous articles. However, the bottom line is "the press" is a competitive commercial enterprise at that time to sell newspaper subscriptions & now to sell online subscriptions. And the most disturbing thing is "The National Enquirer" still exists, showing the mindset of too many ppl who consume "the news."
200 is a lot; thanks for performing a civic duty well. How many were actually published, i.e. approved by editors and appearing in the Letters section rather than as online comments? I've probably submitted c.60-70 letters over four decades, with about a dozen published, all in the last 15.
I'm concerned about the amount of oxygen the press in general continues to give folks who perpetuate lies. I just don't get it - how can we move in the direction of unity and truth when lies continue to be given credence and spread across the land over and over again?
Hear.Hear. I find myself screaming at the tv when yet another reporter 'challenges' Psaki about what the president means by "UNITY," (caps intentional) ..and is that a unifying thing he said/did? Maybe it's going to take time for reporters to realize that they are in a White House briefing room where a real Press Secretary is trying to give real information about what the administration is trying to do. The press has had four years of lies, propaganda, obfuscation, and taken downright abuse, so maybe they are still in "ask again and again and again" mode?
Republicans are still calling the American Relief Plan "stimulus". It's not an economic stimulus plan but it certainly will help the economy. But let's call it what it is, "disaster relief" which is what it would be if instead of COVID, every city in America was hit by a tornado, flood or some other natural disaster.
Sometimes the economy just needs a shot in the arm (stimulus), other times a major transfusion (disaster relief). Right now people need vaccination shots but cities and states are in need of a transfusion of cash to make it happen.
I'm not concerned so much about the term stimulus but I am when it's not used correctly. Folks who can't or don't follow current events closely can easily be bamboozled with wonky terms.
I'm confused about this. As in many places, the state of NH is using the National Guard (whom I believe we pay already, maybe we're paying them more now?) and VOLUNTEER vaccinators at outdoor sites that don't cost anything to administer vaccines that I think are being provided by the feds? The platforms for making appointments and documenting shots are through the state and CDC respectively, so how much money do cities and states need exactly to get vaccines into people? I admit to being naive about this.
Thank you. I used the term stimulus in an earlier comment and it felt so wrong but I was too lazy to stop and think of a better word, thus illustrating how easily these words/terms get stuck in our minds when we hear them over and over...........henceforth! I will use "disaster relief".
The GOP has long been kings of framing, and for all the BS about the 'liberal MSM', here we have a perfect example of how the MSM has worked against the left for years.
I can't decide if they're just too lazy to do their own thinking and so just hop on the Fox News bandwagon, or if they are really duplicitous. Obviously, there are real journalists working hard, but somehow the words of the lightweights seem to get air time.
Well, here on this board we are an example of the activity and energy we give to the right, to trump, to the horror show. We simply do not spend time crafting an alternative. The more we debate, discuss and harangue on an issue, the greater that issue. Look to Lakoff, who reminds us to never debate an issue on the terms of the opposition - but to press our (or mine) issue and agenda.
Liberals most often live in a world of protest, and we have little capacity for the efforts toward building the alternative.
HCR has posted Questions inviting readers' ideas for a better government. There are plenty of HCR readers who are putting energy into crafting the alternatives and taking action. Give credit where credit is due! :)
Morning, all!! Morning, Dr. R!! I asked my bovine friends who live on the property behind me what "We need to quit counting the egg-sucking legs on the cows" means. No word as yet in response to the query. There were, however, several scattered moos that could be heard among the herd...
I was born in West Virginia and so I'll interpret for you. He means don't focus on the small stuff and start acting like a tall dog at a meat counter! (Oh my, I have a million of my Dad's sayings floating in my head. It's a comfort for me, though.) :-)
Appreciate the intel on West Virginia speak, Carla. I live in VA about 20 minutes from the WV border, and have trespassed through from time to time...Harper's Ferry, Charles Town, Shepherdstown, etc. Among many other things I do not know, Fairfax Stone monument heralds the source of the Potomac River, so awesome!
Morning to you, Lynell Abbott. The expression means to get to the point. If you want to know how many cows are in a field, count ‘em! Don’t waste time counting all there dang ( egg sucking) legs then divide by four.
His previous use of this expression is humorously recounted here:
You can't blame the poor cow for any of that! The first thing i came across in this vein when i arrived in Montreal was "Kraft Foods" . My then girlfriend was professionally translating The company's "recipes"
The expression "suck eggs" according to Wikipedia "refers to a person giving advice to another person in a subject with which the other person is already familiar.
The origins of the phrase are not clear. The OED and others suggest that it comes from a translation in 1707, by J. Stevens, of Francisco de Quevedo (Spanish author):[2] "You would have me teach my Grandame to suck Eggs". Most likely the meaning of the idiom derives from the fact that before the advent of modern dentistry (and modern dental prostheses) many elderly people (grandparents) had very bad teeth, or no teeth, so that the simplest way for them to eat protein was to poke a pinhole in the shell of a raw egg and suck out the contents; therefore, a grandmother was usually already a practiced expert on sucking eggs and didn't need anyone to show her how to do it." So, suck eggs means to tell someone something they already know. The four legs part I remember as a joke when I was young. Don't remember the set up of the joke but it was something like: a rancher looking over his vast herd of cattle tells the guy next to him he has 5,342 head of cattle. The guy asks how did you count them so fast. Answer: "I just counted their legs and divided by four."
The NYT 77 day article was fantastic. It lays out the foundation for the impeachment trial. Citizens need to read that article to have a greater understanding of the history and participants in the great sedition.
Emperor Trump had no clothes. He lost the election but would not admit it and bragged about winning. Sycophants kept up the ridiculous story even after the crowds smashed in the seat of government. There is too much shame involved in admitting they lied, and lied and lied. And too many injured, dead or locked in jail. For what?
Susan Collins is concerned. The tax cut she supported with Trump should have concerned her. We know who benefited from the tax cut. The 1% . Biden is focused on rescuing the country from this pandemic and the effects it has on the most vulnerable. This is where concern needs to lie.
Susan Collins race was the second most expensive in the country at nearly $30 million but it is second to the last in population (only Wyoming has less)! If we don't get campaign finance reform soon, elections driven by money will end any idea of a "fair election". Here's her Open Secrets Account. Note who is funding her: https://www.opensecrets.org/members-of-congress/susan-collins/summary?cid=N00000491
Uhoh, I just read that Joe Manchin is saying that he won't support a stimulus deal that isn't bi-partisan! That means that unless he can be convinced, budget reconciliation will not be possible. Why doesn't he just change parties?
I think my prediction that a year from now we won't have Drumpfsterfire to worry about other than providing him meals and a mop to clean his cell with is going to be true.
I would pay premium to see the Professional Perjurer testify in his own behalf. The last time he did that in a civil suit against Tim O'Brien, he was caught lying in court 19 times.
Hey, if you get in trouble with the law, it is wise to have a good lawyer. But is it ethical for lawyers to sell their services to clients beforehand so they are able to find a possible legal way of doing something which is clearly bad and illegal to start with?
But who among the remaining Republicans has any decency? The ones who do have left and allied themselves with the Lincoln Project, either openly or covertly.
I remember hearing O’Brien interviewed about that experience just as tRump’s lawyers were advising him not to testify in First Congressional Impeachment. OMG: I SO WOULD PAY TO WATCH HIM TESTIFY. ❤️🤍💙
Seems like the tax cuts should have held stipulations much the way the PPP loans did. Maybe they did and I didn't hear of it.
I mean, the PPP loans came during a time of great need for many businesses and came with a specific set of rules on how to spend it. The tax cuts, as someone here said, was a gift to the already wealthy. They should have been required to redirect the saved money into local spending instead of spending on themselves.
I understand the idea of the tax cuts to stimulate the economy but without oversight or rules, it was redirected back into the businesses and in no way helped the economy.
As far as relief packages, no visible mention has been made to specifically help the restaurant industry. At the beginning of the pandemic, my wife and I owned a successful restaurant for over 36 years. We were asked to close by the governor of our state, as many restaurants and bars were asked to across the country. We understood clearly why we had to shut down and we did it for the greater good. We were proud to help.
Being the first asked to sacrifice, restaurants were not moved to the front of the line in terms of aid specific to them.
We are doing okay, but many restaurants in our community and across the country are closed permanently with more being announced every day.
In France the restaurants are closed as are the bars, they are aided somewhat minimaly financialy but are dying fast. If they rebel and open they are arrested and punished. All this after they had put in place safe sanitary protocols that they negotiated with the government that effectively precluded becoming centres of infection. The government closed them down nontheless as they have done with the ski hills, theaters, cinemas, museums......the essence of French Culture....all had put in place the same protocols! Unfortunately there is panic in the air amongst our politicians who are living in fear of what can happen on the streets and how they are going to be treated by the Judges after its all over....and they still can't get up the courage to contradict their political ideology and close the national frontiers within Europe! France is currently a very dull place where the people are essentially being more responsible than they have ever been in the past.....but to no avail! They can't even get the vaccine program rolling correctly for those who want it.
Thank you for this firsthand report from a country whose language I’m currently studying and whose “attitude” as expressed by the language I really enjoy. Then, there’s the culture, art and cuisine! 🙏🏻❤️🤍💙
Many restaurants would be behind that too. It would keep the doors open until things get better. I mean, we want to feed people, that's why we do it, but we also need to make money. Honestly, things will never be the same for restaurants. A golden age has passed for fine dining and unique casual as well. We have been in a decades long battle with chain restaurants, and when we had the chance to bouy ourselves up with PPP loans, we see that the already cash rich corporate restaurants have sopped up a lot of that money too... It's a landscape I no longer recognize.
From the beginning (almost) I have thought the government should provide funding for restaurants and perhaps some stores to plan and rebuild some of their space to accommodate more efficient open air dining and curbside. And remove barriers from restaurants being able to get significant changes in place fast. I don't foresee my family going back inside a restaurant this year at least. Would this kind of funding for planning, development and perhaps education for restaurant owners be useful?
Frankly, anything that helps restaurants with clear cut nation wide protocols and funding directly to implementation would be a good start. So far, it's piecemeal state by state and there are too many places where the mandates are unclear or unenforced. Most restaurants are hurting, with cash flow being cut by the seating limitations. So any safety protocols (physical reconstruction of space and seating) have to come out of their pockets which puts them in the red right off. And the most effective method for safety in gathering areas, the modern air filtration and circulation systems, are a fantasy many establishments would never be able to afford.
Thank you for doing the right thing. I can't imagine how hard it must be to have made such deep sacrifices and watch your colleagues in other places carry on as if nothing were happening, and yet others going under as they comply. My husband and I lost some income this past year due to the pandemic, income that should have gone to savings and retirement funding, but not enough to disrupt our cash flow or make us unable to pay our bills and we continue to live comfortably. We feel badly about receiving stimulus checks we don't need, but have decided to put some in our retirement account and use the bulk to purchase gift cards to restaurants we like who have done the right thing in the hopes that they'll still be there when we can safely visit them again.
I gave part of my 1st stimulus check to my granddaughter who was going away to college and couldn’t get a part-time job for six months before that, And after she lost the job she had for a year and a half., to save up money for school. I’ve been distributing my second stimulus check to food pantries all around the area.
Tax cuts for the wealthy are supposed to "trickle down" to the rest of us and, therefore, require no stipulations or conditions. That is economic nonsense of course, but a lot of people have been convinced of the veracity of such "voodoo economics" by the Republican Party.
Susan Collins race was the second most expensive in the country at nearly $30 million but Maine is 42nd in population ranking! If we don't get campaign finance reform soon, elections driven by money will end any idea of a "fair election". Here's her Open Secrets Account. Note who is funding her: https://www.opensecrets.org/members-of-congress/susan-collins/summary?cid=N00000491
Like FDR's New Deal, what's urgently need is a massive infusion of federal cash into the economy. Not even $1.9 tril is really enough, but it will help. It must be carefully administered to bring maximum benefits to those truly in need, unlike relief bills directed by the Trumpsky admin.
The intervention of Gov Jim Justice is welcome and hopefully signals a halting return to reality for segments of his Deplorable GOP. Still, I call BS on his faux-folksy gibberish, this from the richest guy in WV worth $2 billion. Pay your fair share, guv!
As for Trumpsky, here's the deal. Lock him up !!!!!!
Republican leaders don't want an impeachment trial because January 6 was an attempted coup, and a trial in the Senate will expose that fact in undeniable clarity.
Ongoing investigations into 1/6 make trump's involvement and intention obvious. He and a widening net of Republicans intended to take down the government. Period. I remain dazed and dumbfounded by this. And I want those who were involve to be in jail. Period. That was an insurrection. Had it been orchestrated by foreigners, we'd be at war. It wasn't. We did it to ourselves and the participants remain just as guilty. Period. Jail.
While everyone seems to be concerned about the impending Impeachment trial, little is being said about pursuing criminal charges for sedition against the former President, Giuliani, Trump, Jr. Brooks, and others at the "rally." We know the FBI and Justice Departments are investigating, and these things take time. But, the Attorney General should regularly report the status of the investigations without tainting them.
Criminal charges against all players would be great, and wouldn't require Senate involvement. Regardless of how iron-clad the facts are, I just don't see a Senate conviction in the impeachment trial.
Yep, exactly. This will expose a true conspiracy, and that causes far more problems than it solve. For example, how will you even try to implicate McConnell, who clearly contributed, even if passively? And as you say, Larry, people within the White House were involved, including trump's family members. This will get real ugly. And for that reason we cannot allow Republican to convince everybody that we need to "heal ourselves" when in fact the process is actually a cover-up.
Trump's program for retaining the presidency for a second term is so incredibly slap-dash, I have a hard time believing what was happening was a coup d'erat, even by the Cline criteria; it reads like a bad reality tv script about a mentally failing King George III. The things bathos, not tragedy. Has a coup ever been accomplished without the approval and agency of the military. I can't bring myself to believe the military would have gotten involved in any way; the military we have is not composed of a tribal faction built by the president to give his family jobs and the chance to dress up in uniforms, shiny boots and play with rifles. Trump's most workable defense for his upcoming impeachment trial might well be that he had gone mad, potty, as in "a few bricks short of a full load." He started talking about being cheated of the presidency during the Mueller investigation, which he characterized as a thinly disguised attempt to bring him down—and when Covid-19 started up, astoundingly enough, that too was an attack on his leadership. He asked his supporters to risk exposure to the virus by coming out to vote in person so he could make a claim that any other form of voting was a conspiracy against him. His pathetic draft dodge for heel spurs was evidence enough that he had no qualms about putting others in harms way as long as he and his kids could find women's cloths to wear into the Titanic's life-boats as the ship went down without the captain. Had the January 6 state elector count been really interrupted or messed with otherwise, the largely ceremonial event would not have been seen as deciding the election; the election was in the box, never mind what was in the pretty boxes of elector counts sitting on Pence's table. Adult congresspersons would have stopped the comedy and refused to play the game. Cruz and Hawley and the other congresspersons who appeared to question the legitimacy of the vote were pretty obviously just grand standing in order to avoid driving Trump into a very bad mood. The rioters, how surreal, appeared to see themselves as being on a movie-set, a costume party, more than anything else concerned about filming on I-phones next weeks episode of An Idiot band invades the Super-Bowl and tosses the game to Brady. As I looked through the Pro-Publica clips of the "insurrectionists" in the Capitol, I started flashing on what seemed to be footage of out-takes left on the cutting room floor of the Jerry Springer Show. Trump's term of office looks like a stretched period of temporary insanity, but I can't wait to watch the Senate trial unfold. Now that is going to be a show, actual art in the best sense..
They erected a gallows, they were minutes away from finding someone to hang. Even if they were all dressed as Mary Poppins and humming the theme song of the Dick Van Dyke show the event seemed very real to me. Evil and malicious intent can be banal, even ridiculous, and yet be quite effective.
Once a crowd forms and someone excites them, the psychology changes and herd instincts take over from individual responsibility and anything can happen without the individuals feeling either responsible or particularly concerned.......until it is all over and justice comes to call.
Crowds can be controlled; many are quite orderly, disciplined, even silent. A mob is a crowd out of control. Mobs display common, even predictable features. They don't think or respond to rational prompts; they just act, and their actions always tend toward the worst behavior. Mobs can only be stopped by using or threatening force against them, or when their energy and focus dissipate. That's what we saw happening in the Capitol on Jan 6. It certainly wasn't due to concerted efforts by law enforcement or the federal government.
The insurrection displayed classic mobbing behavior and will be studied endlessly by scholars. Unlike most crowds or mobs which stubbornly remain largely anonymous and inexplicable, this is the best documented mob in history, making it somewhat easier to explain -- and much easier to prosecute, hopefully to the fullest extent of the law.
Exactly!! There was plenty of death and morbidity and it stopped the work of Congress. I’m of the thought that the insidiousness of it made it even worse. Has anyone heard AOC (who has had her life threatened repeatedly by these monsters) reveal her experience.
Today AOC recounted the experience in her regular newsletter. Apparently she and my Rep Ayanna Pressley strengthened each others' resolve together during the Capitol siege. They were just moments from some horrible violence.
Now watch the videos of the mob getting the police out if the way. Watch them breaking down the doors. Watch them rough up a photographer someone decided was 'antifa' before he could convince someone to look at his press pass. That there were buffoons in the crowd "doin' it for the 'Gram" does not discount the ones wearing body armor and carrying a bundle of zip-tie restraints.
My thoughts exactly. The videos are chilling, and certainly put paid to any notion that these were simple folks who gathered happily in anticipation of cheering "their President," at a rally.
I, for one, am not very interested in allowing the King of Q to get off from being the front man for this coup d'etat and leader of seditious acts on grounds of being "potty" in his brain. My memory is that he stated, 1,000 years ago in the 2016 election, if he did not win against Hillary it would be a rigged election. This is merely par for the course in paving the road for an autocratic take over. He may be King of Q, but he is also someone's Puppet with no ideology whatsoever except the gross reflection in his giant, distorted mirror. His puppet master is more calculating in the destruction of America's power via the willingly seditious GOP and the vile corpus of King Q and his dangerous cult.
Just because it's unlikely the military would have gone along doesn't mean it was not a coup attempt by trump. When I read some of HCR's previous posts, the longer NYT and other articles about the preparation for overturning the election results (the plan to fire Rosen, the call to GA SOS Raffensberger, etc), I don't know what else to call it but an attempted coup. It was not slap-dash. Preparation began at least months ago when he began talking about election fraud associated with easier mail-in ballots (to his detriment as it turned out).
Beth, I agree that it was a coup attempt, regardless of the insane thought processes of the Monster, or the ineptness of the insurrectionists. It doesn't have to be successful to be malicious or seditious. It's the intent that counts. He is a deranged criminal, and proved it on many fronts, from election interference to the insurrection. His endless lies and ineptitude were just the prelude to his traitorous "plot."
It was coup. Unfortunately too many journalists and scholarly experts can't or won't recognize and name it accurately. They are prisoners confined in a framework that hampers understanding. "This isn't us" is a variant of American exceptionalism saying it can't happen here. Well, it did, and it might again.
On Jan 7 the Boston Globe had an interview with Clayton Thyne, specialist on coups at U Kentucky. Thyne said that Jan 6 couldn't be a coup because it didn't target the head of government and had no formal military involvement. That definition is completely inadequate to comprehend what happened, including since 2016 when Trumpsky commenced his nearly five-year campaign to undermine election institutions and results. Events since Nov 3 should force a major reassessment among experts along with major changes in governance and law enforcement.
And actually, it did target the head of government, the newly elected, but yet-to-be-inaugurated head of the government, at the behest of the outgoing "head" of government wanting to extend his reign. You're correct that "outgoing" had been campaigning and preparing for five years for just such a scenario. Biden's life was not threatened, but the process to install him was.
Good catch, Nancy. Thyne focused only on the actual incumbent: not a target, not a coup. Bah. I wrote the Globe and challenged him to a debate on his own topic, coups d'etat, but on my turf with English examples he overlooks. No answer from the Globe. Bah again!
Why am I not surprised? You do know that Boston is the center of all civilization. I know, because I grew up there, then MOVED to (gasp) Georgia. Infamy!
Also SOD Mark Esper's statement in June 2020 that George Floyd protests did not need the US military to restore order. The spirit of the Self-Denying Ordinance, heritage of the English Civil War that separates civil and military authority, remains strong.
The former president may not have been in complete control. King George probably wasn't either. Those who seek control for their own ends rather than for the common good may often find it useful to have a buffoonish frontperson.
George 111's son had a great time and this "scot-free",before the Regency leading grift, plots, factions and whatever else trying to usurp power.....thereafter he was actually blamed for everything....not so funny!
I agree that Trumps attempt to retain power was amateurish and,seemed doomed to failure. But that is the nature or Trump’s typical planning effort. He hasn’t shown the ability to implement logical step-by-step plans that unfold over time, anticipating moves multiple steps ahead. Instead, his standard method has been to create chaos and division and then find an action that will take advantage of the confusion so he gets his way, in this case maintaining power. My best guess is that he hoped to rouse the crowd/mob to march to the capitol and raise enough ruckus to frighten the legislators to do his bidding, or to create a situation so violent that he could declare a state of emergency and martial law, suspend the constitution and put himself in charge. He sees himself as adept at finding a way to benefit from the messes he creates. He began using these techniques early in his presidency. This approach seemed to work for him early on, but became increasingly less effective through his term, and totally failed as his strategy to the pandemic and to his election loss.
The last time the "military" was involved in a coup predates the Republic. Called the Newburgh Conspiracy, took place in 1783, in Newburgh, New York. There's a State museum there and worth the visit.
Basically, Officers of the Continental Army were frustrated by Congress hemming and hawing about paying them for their service during the Revolution. The plan was to march on Philadelphia and Congress. They were holding a meeting when Washington walks into the room, takes the podium, pulls out his spectacles. Now these men had never seen Washington, story goes, wearing glasses. As he takes out a cloth to wipe them down, he says, "Excuse me, my eyes have grown dim in the service of my country."
Pretty much took the steam out of the conspiracy, but Washington did let Congress know you can't promise one thing and fail to deliver. It also established the concept of civil control over the military.
I seriously doubt the military would be involved in a coup. Remember each soldier takes an oath to defend the Constitution of the United States of America and not to some political leader.
Larry, you stated: "I seriously doubt the military would be involved in a coup. Remember each soldier takes an oath to defend the Constitution of the United States of America and not to some political leader."
But here's something else which bears remembering, so does each and every member of Congress, both chambers. I've cut and pasted the following from the GPO's information page:
"Legislative Branch: Members of Congress
At the start of each new Congress, in January of every odd-numbered year, the entire House of Representatives and one-third of the Senate takes an oath of office. For Members of the House, the Speaker will direct the Members to rise, and the oath is administered. A Senator-elect takes the oath of office from the presiding officer in an open session of the Senate. The current oath is as follows:
"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter: So help me God."
Currently there are 76 members of the House and 24 in the Senate who are Veterans. This means that 100 members of the current Congress* have taken an oath to defend the Constitution at least twice in their two different roles of service to the United States. How many of those people have rejected their oath(s) by pledging fealty to Trump, supporting his claims of a stolen election despite all evidence to the contrary? How many in Congress* were instrumental in the attack on 6 January? How many of those people are prepared to let Trump and his co conspirators walk, unpunished.
Now, here's another troubling question: How many active military, from the top down, were instrumental in allowing the events of 6 January to take place? How many at the Pentagon? DoD? On the ground?
I do not have the faith that you have that all who have taken the pledge as members of our armed forces and/or as members of Congress* will adhere to that oath.
*Congress-used here to define both the House and the Senate.
Daria, good point. Not all of those who take the oath will adhere to it. But as the FBI and Justice department conduct their investigations, and these people are found out, then we need to prosecute them to the full extent of the law.
Larry and Daria, Your exchange was edifying as it raised important questions. I would like to know how many in Congress who chose not to impeach Trump also served in the military. We'll have a more complete picture of that after the trial in the Senate. With reference to the oaths of office and oaths to the constitution, do such commitments mean less today? Has individualism and self-interest dimed their power? I think the reasons for Trump's hold on elected Represtatives, (national and state) as well as more than 70 million voters will tell us more about our country and its people. There have been important failures of government, including policies that transferred wealth to a few, systematic racism that has not been substantially reduced and a lack of support for the working class that was left hanging as companies sought workers elsewhere and technology changed the world of work. It is still difficult to go from that (and more) to Donald Trump, a known creep, crook, abuser, liar, racist and phony. What is so appealing about of his wide ranging character defects and mental health issues? Apparently, playing the victim, incessantly repeating the same lies, his bluster, gross attacks on the establishment - women - immigrants - minorities, opponents and other countries did the trick. Our faltering country needs to know the reasons for Trump's appeal as well as working toward a much more equitable union with a functioning government that people can respect.
Fern. Good questions that really need a lot of space and discussion.
This past Sunday, I watched Fareed Zakaria's CNN special on the "polarization" of the country. In my opinion its a bit biased, but many of the facts are pertinent to this discussion. If you can find it, watch it. Where he's biased is that he points to Fox News and Newt Gingrich as the real culprits to the problem. They're factors, maybe strong ones, but the liberals are not without their own "rabble rousers" during this time. Otherwise, its very informative.
Thank you, Larry. We do need a clearer understanding of what is going on in this country, why and what may be done about the negative forces. I often watch Fareed Zakaria's programs and will try to find the 'polarization' special.
Many of those involved in the January 6 coup attempt believed they were defending the Constitution (as they understand it - reminds me of the flag-hugger himself - professing allegiance to something they don't really understand or respect). I do think that T**** intended from the beginning to retain power as long as possible and that a coup has been considered a viable part of the playbook from day one. His requests for massive military parades, his loading of the Justice department and the Pentagon with loyalists, his "joking" about 4, 8, 12, 16, ... more years at rallies, his refusal to allow any information about his talks with Putin, Kim, and other autocrats - all have been indications that he never had any intention of leaving the White House.
Just because he's delusional, mentally unstable, incapable of doing the job for which he was elected is no reason to think that January 6 was not an attempted coup. Plenty of dictators throughout history have not been capable administrators, have been arm-waving narcissistic pathological liars, and yet have ruled for decades. We are fortunate that there were enough leaders in the military who still believed in democracy to have prevented this from being a military-backed coup.
I mean no disrespect to you, Larry, but the fact that it hasn't happened here before is not exactly a bolstering argument in favor of January 6 not being a coup attempt. We couldn't imagine 9/11 either.......before 9/11.
Beth, I didn't mean to imply what happened on Jan 6 wasn't a coup attempt. I was only referring to one being led by the military. Would the military be able to lead a coup? Interesting question that was posed by the movie/book Seven Days in May.
We've actually had another "coup attempt" in the 1930s when a group of businessmen approached a retired marine general. They asked him to raise 500,000 men to march on the President. He turned their names over to the Justice Department.
I would wholeheartedly support the idea that this attempt was sedition and those involved, at all levels, should be punished to the full extent of the law.
I remember watching the movie "Seven Days in May" in the base theater at Goodfellow AFB where we were training to spy on Soviet radio comm. I was impressed even in my youth at the openness of the USAF showing that movie on base. (We also has the English language Pravda in our BX)
Marine General Smedley D Butler is a neglected hero. Along with his patriotic response to the 1930s coup attempt, Butler repudiated his sterling military service. He stated that he and other soldiers were exploited to support intervention in the Caribbean and Central America, skewing their economies in favor of US corporations.
Cf. also Sinclair Lewis, ""It Can't Happen Here." It is fiction but presents a chilling warning that, indeed, it CAN happen here. It's gotten more attention and readers since 2016.
<> S Butler, War is a Racket
<> J Archer & A Venzon, The Plot to Seize the White House
Just because they served or are serving doesn't mean they don't have their own ideas, fears, etc.
The bigger question is why do people join these extremist groups at all. And which is more dangerous to the country - right wing or leftist ones like Antifa?
I read a recent article this past Sunday, in either the Washington Post or New York Times, that the FBI and Justice Department were being pulled off active investigations against right wing groups like Oath Keepers, etc. to pursue the Antifa claims by Trump and his supporters. So, the professionals in government know where the main threat is but politics, as usual, got in the way.
Antifa poses no serious threat to anything other than a few buildings. It's tiny and barely exists as an organization. Despite its articulate philosophy it has more in common with hippies acting out than any genuine risk to democracy or the rule of law. Nevertheless the Trumpsky admin hyped Antifa as a major threat to the republic. Now the DOJ under Merrick Garland will take serious threats seriously, rather than exploiting them for selfish or traitorous purposes.
"Despite its articulate philosophy"? I'd be very interested in knowing more about this. Perhaps I've been too overwhelmed by the alt-right and their views to have picked up that Antifa has articulated a philosophy other than that expressed in their name - against fascism. I'm assuming there would be an anti-police angle, as the idea that too many cops are fascists is hard to avoid (in my view one or two in a department is way too many). And they would naturally be against the T****ers. Has there been any statement of what they might be for (since what they are against is not hard to infer)?
In all seriousness, if there is a gray-haired granny faction of Antifa that eschews violence, I might be interested in joining since they were able to scare T**** and his ilk. I already have a black hoodie, black trousers, and a backpack.
Check out the Coup-o-meter at https://isthisacoup.com/allupdates. The site has been archived as of January 20, 2021 but it provides meter updates beginning on September 24, 2020.
IsThisACoup needs to incorporate evidence starting in 2016. That' when Trumpsky began plotting to overthrow the US government by discrediting any election results not to his liking.
Correct on JCOS, thank you David. But I cannot see a concerted takeover happening that involved a united military. The worst-case scenario would have factions within the military clashing with others, some supporting seditious insurrection, the majority the established order. That's pretty nightmarish in itself, and is the kind of chaotic situation that Trumpsky lives to exploit. Martial law under his regime would have been a mortal threat to American democracy.
You don't need the military if you have judges, and a majority of the national legislature, and pivotal election officials in key states willing to disqualify election results. Thankfully, Trump could not convince enough of these officials to break the law. But if Trump Republicans continue to control that party and continue to dominate state legislatures and continue to win other critical offices, the Next-Trump might. The antidote to authoritarianism is this: Democrats must win elections. Democrats must stay focused, must not become complacent, must continue voter-mobilization efforts, and must fight Republican voter suppression efforts. Stacey Abrams has shown us the way. I agree with Mitch McConnell rarely, but he was right on one count: elections have consequences.
Yes, the Next Trump could be more dangerous still: more plausible, less alienating or polarizing, better manners, certainly smarter, possibly even attractive. Can you say "Nikki Haley," boys and girls?
The GOP definition of unity and bipartisanship is, "Do it our way". I kept hearing news people last night talking about 'finding middle ground', 'meeting in the middle', as if this were some weird kind of geometry problem. Take a 24" line and find the mid-point and that is the answer. No nuance, no context, just equal measure for each side. That's not bipartisanship, that's not fairness. That's math.
Regarding the other elephant in the room - the impeachment trial, a friend tipped me to an Australian documentary on the insurrection that was far more complete than I've seen on US TV. "The Downfall of Donald Trump" https://iview.abc.net.au/show/four-corners/series/2021
If the Senate does not convict Trump, we might just as well turn the country over to the Proud Boys and their ilk, because we won't have a country any longer. The fact that the GOP is still pretending that what happened January 6th was an aberration is ludicrous. When I hear people say, "That's not who we are.", I want to scream, "That is PRECISELY who we are" That's why HCRs history lessons are so incredibly valuable. Most of us only had a very skim of history in high school, long forgotten. We don't have true leaders of integrity anymore, or very few, at any rate. We've been like the frog in boiling water for over 50 years, not really seeing how much danger we are collectively in.
And yes, I am speaking as someone who has benefited from my white privilege all my life, often, I'm ashamed to say unaware of just how much it has buoyed me. I know things have been so much worse for my brothers and sisters of color.
I really feel we are at an inflection point as a country - we must deal with the inequality, racial and every other kind. We must quit believing the Trumpian POV that life is a zero sum game, and realize that, "Everybody does better when everybody does better".
I think that's what this community here is doing. and I am thankful for each and every one of you.
Right on the money, Sandra. The Cline Center report linked in HCR’s citations is also chilling. The Republican effort to minimize and normalize the events of Jan 6 must not be allowed to succeed.
Best comment evah! Will watch the documentary. These letters give me hope and this community gives me resolve.
Cantab guy says nice Boston accent. Which neighborhood or neighboring town?
Southern, as in Alabama.
Just, "WOW!" Thank you Sandra, for a beautifully written comment full of truth. And thanks for that link to the Australian documentary. We cannot have TOO much information about the back story on January 6, 2021.
Thank you for that documentary; I will watch it (well, at least listen to it) while I go about my morning activities. Your third paragraph summarizes exactly what my thoughts (much more scattered and less eloquent than yours) have been.
The thing that has been true since 1994 is that there is no more "middle ground" either philosophically or mathematically in the US. The attempt by the Obama administration to find "common ground" with the republicans in 2009 when he had to lead this country out of the economic recession that the republicans had created should serve as an illustration for President Biden that he cannot find middle ground with these scorched earthers. Offer a reasonable response (hint: what they have mentioned so far is not reasonable) and then steamroll them.
A comment I read months ago stated that there is no middle ground between facts and “bat-shit crazy”. As events have unfolded since November, I keep thinking of that.
Yes, middle ground - one party is already there! NOW its up to the Republicans to come to the "middle ground". Why is no one in Congress speaking that truth!
Ally, you make a very important distinction between 'middle ground' and 'common ground'. They've come to be considered synonymous, and they are not.
I too am thankful for this community which buoys me up seeming every day. Thank you all.
Sandra, you have precisely stated the facts of this matter. I am also climbing out of the white privilege cocoon to see the world & this nation really for the first time (many thanks to HCR and BLM). I'll be 70 this year & I fear for what America will be over the next decade and for my children & grandchild beyond that. I watched the Four Corners video. We were so close to complete tragedy. And *45 will not be convicted and then what? We have to stay strong and resist tyranny and be better than we were yesterday in all ways.
What four corners video? Thanks
https://iview.abc.net.au/show/four-corners/series/2021
See Sandra P. Campbell's original post to get the link
Thank you, Sandra for your wonderful comment and sharing the link. Reading comments like yours and several others in this community always give me a sense of hope.
Glad I could be of service! We all must work together to right this ship and there truly is strength in numbers! Keep up the good work.
Just watched the documentary. MANY thanks! I hope portions, if not all, can be used at the trial. The footage is exceptional; I don't know how the photographers managed to be so close to the horrific violence without themselves being harmed. Kudos to them.
Sandra, you're reading my mind, using the same words in my head: "ilk" popped into my head while watching the Australian documentary, and the frog in boiling water analogy.
Thanks for the link. Watching this now. Chilling.
Yes, it is. Maybe should have come with a medication warning....................🤨😯😉
I would love to watch the documentary but I get a message that it is unavailable in my country. Any suggestions on where to find it somewhere else?
Not sure, Karen. I'm in the US, NC, to be exact. Try this link:
https://www.abc.net.au/4corners/downfall:-the-last-days-of-president-trump/13110382
Thank you for this link. I finished viewing this moments ago. I am truly frightened for our democracy. When Ford pardoned Nixon I was disappointed but eventually drank the Kool-Aid and began to think that perhaps the pardon was needed to heal the nation. WRONG. Instead, the lesson was that the events of Watergate would be tolerated, that you could go at least this far in destroying the nation and that going just a bit farther was all you needed. So we get Trump. He went more than a bit farther. And despite all he did to stir up the insurrectionists and rioters, the Republicans in the Senate will acquit him, sending the message loudly and clearly that violence against the government is perfectly fine with them. The third time the insurrectionists will likely succeed. And along with the Democrats and Independents and various minority members not a few Republicans will be swept up in the purge of non-believers that is bound?”
Thank you. This link works on my ipad (the other didn’t for me).
Yay! Glad to hear it.
Thank you Sandra. Just watched it.
This one works on my iPhone!
The link worked on my Mac.
It won’t work on my iPad. Says the app is unavailable in my country.
I watched on a PC. This is the second time this morning someone has commented on something not playing on their Ipad. The other was a Vimeo video, but people using laptops and desk tops had no problem, so it must be an interface issue.
My son-in-law writes apps for a software company and until he told me there has to be specific programming for each kind of device, I had no idea; I thought if it could be seen on one, it could be seen on any, but that's not so.
Interesting. I have a Dell Laptop & watched with no problem on Google Chrome.
You hit it out of the park, Sandra. Thank you.
It's the same with their definition of "compromise." As in "Democrats need to compromise with us."
One needs a doublethink dictionary to understand all the right wing dog whistles. Like the way the use "reform" as a synonym for "destruction." As in "eduction reform."
I just watch the Australian Documentary you posted above. I too have not seen much of it on US TV. Chilling and not for the faint of heart. Thank you.
Further proof that, with rare exception (and I say this as a former journalist), the average "reporter" is an over-educated, under-intelligent, otherwise-unemployable.
Is it just me, or how is $3,200 over the course of nearly a year do much? (Providing that perhaps $1400 is added to the $1200+$600 already paid to single people.). For some that might be a single month's mortgage, utilities, food, gas, essentials. It boggles me how wealthy politicians haggle back and forth so much on such a piddly amount for us that they don't even need themselves. People are so far behind on payments for everything, that I just don't understand how things go up from there. As Robert Reich points out taxing the mega rich will add billions to the economy and they will still be mega rich. I made donations to organizations with my checks to help those out of work. And put some in savings. I have been an essential food service worker at a school district helping prepare and give out over 500,000 free meals in 10 months. I am beat and exhausted. Let the schools safely open. I have faith in Joe Biden. Let's get this leadership team room to lead.
Well said, Jane and thank you for feeding our children. I, too, work in a school. We are every one of us exhausted! Please hang in there, we’ll get through this and better times will be ahead... times we can see each other’s smiles, and hug, and even walk hand in hand with a child. Snow day today, we sent home extra food with the children yesterday- just in case.
You all are our heroes. Thank you for all that you do. Stay safe and take good care of yourselves.
Thank you, Pamsy. To be honest, I don't feel like a hero. My neck, back, knee, thumb are all messed up from the repetitive motion, lifting, and standing. I used to love my job as a high school lunch lady. Now I cry on my way to work. I guess it's burnout. We all miss life the way it used to be.
Even better, some members of Congress are pushing for a pay rise for themselves on the basis that $138,000 (I think that is the number quoted) is not enough to live on with dignity. Of course that is more than I think over 80% of Americans make. But can’t have poor people actually surviving and perhaps beginning to gain some security. Oh no! Never that!
Their salary is $174K. They do have to maintain two places of residence. One in DC and one in their home state. Keeping two "homes" and travel back and forth to their districts is costly. That said, I think there is only one Senator who is not a millionaire. I don't know about Congressional members. Plus they are granted "allowances" for staffing, health insurance, "franking" privileges, etc. They have forged into law that their salaries will rise automatically so that they can say that they have nothing to do with their salary increases, "the law makes those decisions." Here's the agreement that controls their incomes. https://www.senate.gov/CRSpubs/9c14ec69-c4e4-4bd8-8953-f73daa1640e4.pdf
Well, Josh Hawley does not maintain a residence in Missouri--he has a million +$ house in Fairfax County, VA. He uses his sister's home as his "official" address in MO. And many have shared housing in DC--the stories about the boyz who shacked up with Gingrich in Georgetown in the 90s and Oughts are legendary. So between the subsidies and the salaries, I think most congresspeople do just fine.
Hawley is a outlier. I'm not arguing that "they aren't doing just fine." I'm arguing that they are all millionaires, that we need some regular people in Congress who can use the money. The members who "shacked up" did so because even renting a room in DC is prohibitive. It is one of the most expensive cities in the world.
I have a feeling the younger crowd of progressives are ‘regular people’, like AOC, Connor Lamb, Rashid, Primala, et. al.
AOC offers advice to newly-elected congresswoman on how to economically and sustainably afford Congress-appropriate clothing. (And remember, they have to show up dressed appropriately BEFORE they get their first paycheck!)
https://www.businessinsider.com/aoc-pulls-back-curtain-how-afford-congress-appropriate-clothing-2020-11
Agreed. Good point.
Hawley is hardly "going without;" he's reducing expenses by sponging off his family, even if they are willing.
PAY RAISE FOR CONGRESS????????????? For WHAT, exactly???
Probably for hiring personal security.
Can you live with dignity if you never had any dignity?
Touche
There are folks who earn slightly more than the income limit is set for who qualifies for economic relief. Many of them experienced pay cuts, and some 2 income families are now one income families. Kids in college, mortgages, car loans and much more, those expenses and the of living for them didn’t decrease. Is It a sin to point out that people are having a very difficult time even if they don’t make the ‘cut’.
Believe me, not for a moment do I suggest that no income and little food and no ‘basics’ compare, but many on the other side of the ‘line’ are getting clobbered as well.
Cynthia, I do understand this. But the same people who are in Congress complaining about their salaries are refusing to vote for a living minimum wage, for enhancing and extending unemployment benefits, for more money for food stamps and WIC, for a moratorium on foreclosures and evictions with support for landlords who also need to pay the bills, and for assistance to strapped state and local budgets to help out public and higher education, support homeless shelters, and pay for Covid remediation. So I have absolutely no sympathy for them. MLK said that elites get welfare and the poor get "rugged individualism." He was right. The few members of Congress who are not enjoying independent income over and above their salaries seem to have other ways of paying the bills. The whole Christian notion of "feed the poor, clothe the naked, heal the sick" is lost on these guys and gals and yet they hide under a bizarre banner of Christianity for their Antisemitic, sexist, and racist rhetoric.
Sorry for the screed, but in my way of thinking there is no moral equivalence between a disposable income in the top 20% (with the ability to do things like send children to college, pay for broadband internet, and cover their expenses with relatively little pain) and the situation of Black women whose average disposable income (i.e. not dedicated to basic substance) is $5. Literally: $5. And I am in that upper range of privileged white professionals. When the Waltons stop instructing their employees to register for food stamps and WIC because they don't pay them enough to keep them above the poverty line and agree to pay their workers a living wage, I'll stop griping about Congressional salaries.
And sorry about the typo: basic subsistence not substance. HCR: we need an edit function!!!! 🤪
There's an indirect way to edit using the Delete function. Highlight the text to be edited; delete the original post; copy it into a new one, then correct/revise to your heart's content.
Essential worker indeed.
I've lost al patience with the Press pressing Jen Psaki and other Biden folks to accept their narrow focus of "unity" only meaning to appease Republicans and moderate Democrats.
Unity means to bring "the whole" together and Biden more than once made the distinction he meant the whole country. Every President promises to work with the other side but that hasn't happened in decades.
When you hear the call for unity and see that 74% of all Americans are in favor of a big relief package and 400 Governors and Mayors from both parties are begging for life saving aid, you can see how Biden can fulfill his promise for unity.
Republicans tied to Trump are a lost cause, cut them loose and save the ship from sinking. They don't want unity, they want to retain power but 81 million Americans wanted something else.
Have a good day, off to shovel snow.
Well said. I've been thinking that maybe "unity" should have less to do with compromise/agreement between Democrats and Republicans, but rather, have more to do with healing the divide between government and everyday Americans.
We can thank Ronny Ray-gun for starting that rumor - "I'm from the gubmit, and I'm here to help." He said they were the most dangerous words in the English language, and obviously a lot of people believed him.
It’s important to remember, I think, that Reagan stood on the broad shoulders of a wide and long swath of the American experience.
Before Reagan, there were the states’ rights klan, and the private enterprises supporting a racist government, from top to bottom. Even the northern economies depended upon southern slavery. And, going further back, to the founding of our country and, of course, 1619. So there’s our long shadow.
I believe that President Biden is the first national elected figure to call on America to begin to recover untold stories and shine the light on this shadow. I remember Biden referring to 1619, at some point of the campaign. THEN, I realized this man was prepared for this time.
So, I’m glad it's the month of February, at the time. There will be MANY stories told in the next four weeks. At this time, we can chart a new direction, so our actions will be a history of “liberty and justice for all"
Frederick, That's why I love history - it shows us the structure from the bottom up, time-wise. We get to see that everything is predicated on something that came before - decisions that were made, mistakes and right-thinking decisions, too.
We tend, as humans, I think, to think what we see before us is how it's always been, even when we 'know; better. What history allows - maybe forces us - to do is see context as well as content. Very important to understanding ourselves and our world.
I'm with you with regard to the ridiculous amount of time spent by members of the press asking for clarification in re Biden's definition of the word unity. Yesterday morning alone they flogged that dead beast for what seemed half the briefing.
Stay warm.
Any suggestions for how an ordinary citizen can support a better quality press. I surely feel they share significant responsibility in getting us here. I wonder why they don’t have licensing boards and ethics like other professions.
The Fairness Doctrine helped to perform that role, but it was revoked in 1987. We need it again, not just to ensure "balance," but also fact-based reporting. A new FD must be stronger, and broadened to cover new non-broadcast media developed since 1987.
I agree, and I’d like to know the answer to that as well. Would it help to contact these press people directly, and voice our concerns?
It couldn't hurt!
Back before the electronic age, I wrote a lot of Op-Ed letters (200 published between 1982 - 2000). Many of them actually criticized the newspaper or reporters for sensationalized or downright erroneous articles. However, the bottom line is "the press" is a competitive commercial enterprise at that time to sell newspaper subscriptions & now to sell online subscriptions. And the most disturbing thing is "The National Enquirer" still exists, showing the mindset of too many ppl who consume "the news."
200 is a lot; thanks for performing a civic duty well. How many were actually published, i.e. approved by editors and appearing in the Letters section rather than as online comments? I've probably submitted c.60-70 letters over four decades, with about a dozen published, all in the last 15.
I'm concerned about the amount of oxygen the press in general continues to give folks who perpetuate lies. I just don't get it - how can we move in the direction of unity and truth when lies continue to be given credence and spread across the land over and over again?
Hear.Hear. I find myself screaming at the tv when yet another reporter 'challenges' Psaki about what the president means by "UNITY," (caps intentional) ..and is that a unifying thing he said/did? Maybe it's going to take time for reporters to realize that they are in a White House briefing room where a real Press Secretary is trying to give real information about what the administration is trying to do. The press has had four years of lies, propaganda, obfuscation, and taken downright abuse, so maybe they are still in "ask again and again and again" mode?
Republicans are still calling the American Relief Plan "stimulus". It's not an economic stimulus plan but it certainly will help the economy. But let's call it what it is, "disaster relief" which is what it would be if instead of COVID, every city in America was hit by a tornado, flood or some other natural disaster.
President Biden rightly calls it "The American Rescue Plan" and rescue is needed on so many levels.
Whenever I hear the word "stimulus," I think "cattle prod." Honestly. Thanks, Christopher, I agree with your assessment.
Sometimes the economy just needs a shot in the arm (stimulus), other times a major transfusion (disaster relief). Right now people need vaccination shots but cities and states are in need of a transfusion of cash to make it happen.
I'm not concerned so much about the term stimulus but I am when it's not used correctly. Folks who can't or don't follow current events closely can easily be bamboozled with wonky terms.
I'm confused about this. As in many places, the state of NH is using the National Guard (whom I believe we pay already, maybe we're paying them more now?) and VOLUNTEER vaccinators at outdoor sites that don't cost anything to administer vaccines that I think are being provided by the feds? The platforms for making appointments and documenting shots are through the state and CDC respectively, so how much money do cities and states need exactly to get vaccines into people? I admit to being naive about this.
I think of Pavlov's dog. Poor thing!
Thank you. I used the term stimulus in an earlier comment and it felt so wrong but I was too lazy to stop and think of a better word, thus illustrating how easily these words/terms get stuck in our minds when we hear them over and over...........henceforth! I will use "disaster relief".
The GOP has long been kings of framing, and for all the BS about the 'liberal MSM', here we have a perfect example of how the MSM has worked against the left for years.
I can't decide if they're just too lazy to do their own thinking and so just hop on the Fox News bandwagon, or if they are really duplicitous. Obviously, there are real journalists working hard, but somehow the words of the lightweights seem to get air time.
Well, here on this board we are an example of the activity and energy we give to the right, to trump, to the horror show. We simply do not spend time crafting an alternative. The more we debate, discuss and harangue on an issue, the greater that issue. Look to Lakoff, who reminds us to never debate an issue on the terms of the opposition - but to press our (or mine) issue and agenda.
Liberals most often live in a world of protest, and we have little capacity for the efforts toward building the alternative.
HCR has posted Questions inviting readers' ideas for a better government. There are plenty of HCR readers who are putting energy into crafting the alternatives and taking action. Give credit where credit is due! :)
Morning, all!! Morning, Dr. R!! I asked my bovine friends who live on the property behind me what "We need to quit counting the egg-sucking legs on the cows" means. No word as yet in response to the query. There were, however, several scattered moos that could be heard among the herd...
I was born in West Virginia and so I'll interpret for you. He means don't focus on the small stuff and start acting like a tall dog at a meat counter! (Oh my, I have a million of my Dad's sayings floating in my head. It's a comfort for me, though.) :-)
I love that -'tall dog at the meat counter'. I've inherited quite of few family sayings that would fit right in in WV, I'm sure. I love them all.
Appreciate the intel on West Virginia speak, Carla. I live in VA about 20 minutes from the WV border, and have trespassed through from time to time...Harper's Ferry, Charles Town, Shepherdstown, etc. Among many other things I do not know, Fairfax Stone monument heralds the source of the Potomac River, so awesome!
I'm in Charles Town - not native to the state so I appreciate the translation above.
Morning to you, Lynell Abbott. The expression means to get to the point. If you want to know how many cows are in a field, count ‘em! Don’t waste time counting all there dang ( egg sucking) legs then divide by four.
His previous use of this expression is humorously recounted here:
http://ohiovalleynewz.com/2019/05/23/united-cows-of-america-demand-apology-after-gov-justices-calls-them-egg-suckers/
United Cows of America must be a grassroots coalition!
Hah, thanks. When Gov Justice meets cattle, it's steak.
And when on probation or parole it's Milk, Butter, Yogurt and Cheese!
Ha! In the US it would be Velveeta and cheap margarine.
You can't blame the poor cow for any of that! The first thing i came across in this vein when i arrived in Montreal was "Kraft Foods" . My then girlfriend was professionally translating The company's "recipes"
Love this, Daria.
Yuk!
🤣🤣🤣
Is Devin Nunes’ cow onboard with this?
Rogue steers get cut out of the herd.....but can be branded like the rest!
Ooh, ouch, Stuart!
In some cultures the brand would be on the forehead for all to see. Traitor writ large!
Devin is all hat, no cows
All truck no horse.
Time he was told that he is now "old hat"
Thanks ever so, CL! Much appreciated.
The expression "suck eggs" according to Wikipedia "refers to a person giving advice to another person in a subject with which the other person is already familiar.
The origins of the phrase are not clear. The OED and others suggest that it comes from a translation in 1707, by J. Stevens, of Francisco de Quevedo (Spanish author):[2] "You would have me teach my Grandame to suck Eggs". Most likely the meaning of the idiom derives from the fact that before the advent of modern dentistry (and modern dental prostheses) many elderly people (grandparents) had very bad teeth, or no teeth, so that the simplest way for them to eat protein was to poke a pinhole in the shell of a raw egg and suck out the contents; therefore, a grandmother was usually already a practiced expert on sucking eggs and didn't need anyone to show her how to do it." So, suck eggs means to tell someone something they already know. The four legs part I remember as a joke when I was young. Don't remember the set up of the joke but it was something like: a rancher looking over his vast herd of cattle tells the guy next to him he has 5,342 head of cattle. The guy asks how did you count them so fast. Answer: "I just counted their legs and divided by four."
Now I get it! Thanks, Catherine L!
This thread is gold I tell you🤣😂🤣
Egg yellow I would think
Thanks for checking into this, get back to us if you find out anything else!
The NYT 77 day article was fantastic. It lays out the foundation for the impeachment trial. Citizens need to read that article to have a greater understanding of the history and participants in the great sedition.
Emperor Trump had no clothes. He lost the election but would not admit it and bragged about winning. Sycophants kept up the ridiculous story even after the crowds smashed in the seat of government. There is too much shame involved in admitting they lied, and lied and lied. And too many injured, dead or locked in jail. For what?
Susan Collins is concerned. The tax cut she supported with Trump should have concerned her. We know who benefited from the tax cut. The 1% . Biden is focused on rescuing the country from this pandemic and the effects it has on the most vulnerable. This is where concern needs to lie.
Susan Collins is always ‘concerned’! Can we trust her?
No.
Amen!
No
Susan Collins race was the second most expensive in the country at nearly $30 million but it is second to the last in population (only Wyoming has less)! If we don't get campaign finance reform soon, elections driven by money will end any idea of a "fair election". Here's her Open Secrets Account. Note who is funding her: https://www.opensecrets.org/members-of-congress/susan-collins/summary?cid=N00000491
Correction! I was looking at Vermont, because I'm a confused person. Collins's state of Maine is 42nd in population.
“Go Big!”
The Democratic leadership is taking the right course – the only course – the begin the healing.
A Senate vote to convict the former president would be the appropriate second dose.
I'm so pleased the corporate Dems actually seem to be on a "Go big" course. Maybe Biden's not gonna be so bad, after all.
Uhoh, I just read that Joe Manchin is saying that he won't support a stimulus deal that isn't bi-partisan! That means that unless he can be convinced, budget reconciliation will not be possible. Why doesn't he just change parties?
Where is Arthur Jensen when you need him?
Probably attending a T***p rally. Maybe he convinced Manchin not to be too hasty.
I think my prediction that a year from now we won't have Drumpfsterfire to worry about other than providing him meals and a mop to clean his cell with is going to be true.
I would pay premium to see the Professional Perjurer testify in his own behalf. The last time he did that in a civil suit against Tim O'Brien, he was caught lying in court 19 times.
“Only the poor break laws—the rich evade them” -T-bone Slim. I’m tired of DT’s evasion. I want to see justice.
Hey, if you get in trouble with the law, it is wise to have a good lawyer. But is it ethical for lawyers to sell their services to clients beforehand so they are able to find a possible legal way of doing something which is clearly bad and illegal to start with?
I'm waiting for the collective.... "have you no decency sir" moment. An event similar to what broke the McCarthy Communist scare hysteria.
But who among the remaining Republicans has any decency? The ones who do have left and allied themselves with the Lincoln Project, either openly or covertly.
Is that a trick question? None of them.
Hoping you’re right!
https://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/trump-to-defend-self-after-receiving-law-degree-from-trump-university
A piece of wood pulp worth nothing outside the lavatory.
I remember hearing O’Brien interviewed about that experience just as tRump’s lawyers were advising him not to testify in First Congressional Impeachment. OMG: I SO WOULD PAY TO WATCH HIM TESTIFY. ❤️🤍💙
Seems like the tax cuts should have held stipulations much the way the PPP loans did. Maybe they did and I didn't hear of it.
I mean, the PPP loans came during a time of great need for many businesses and came with a specific set of rules on how to spend it. The tax cuts, as someone here said, was a gift to the already wealthy. They should have been required to redirect the saved money into local spending instead of spending on themselves.
I understand the idea of the tax cuts to stimulate the economy but without oversight or rules, it was redirected back into the businesses and in no way helped the economy.
As far as relief packages, no visible mention has been made to specifically help the restaurant industry. At the beginning of the pandemic, my wife and I owned a successful restaurant for over 36 years. We were asked to close by the governor of our state, as many restaurants and bars were asked to across the country. We understood clearly why we had to shut down and we did it for the greater good. We were proud to help.
Being the first asked to sacrifice, restaurants were not moved to the front of the line in terms of aid specific to them.
We are doing okay, but many restaurants in our community and across the country are closed permanently with more being announced every day.
In France the restaurants are closed as are the bars, they are aided somewhat minimaly financialy but are dying fast. If they rebel and open they are arrested and punished. All this after they had put in place safe sanitary protocols that they negotiated with the government that effectively precluded becoming centres of infection. The government closed them down nontheless as they have done with the ski hills, theaters, cinemas, museums......the essence of French Culture....all had put in place the same protocols! Unfortunately there is panic in the air amongst our politicians who are living in fear of what can happen on the streets and how they are going to be treated by the Judges after its all over....and they still can't get up the courage to contradict their political ideology and close the national frontiers within Europe! France is currently a very dull place where the people are essentially being more responsible than they have ever been in the past.....but to no avail! They can't even get the vaccine program rolling correctly for those who want it.
Thank you for this firsthand report from a country whose language I’m currently studying and whose “attitude” as expressed by the language I really enjoy. Then, there’s the culture, art and cuisine! 🙏🏻❤️🤍💙
I'd like to see some relief money go to paying for restaurants to feed hungry people.
Many restaurants would be behind that too. It would keep the doors open until things get better. I mean, we want to feed people, that's why we do it, but we also need to make money. Honestly, things will never be the same for restaurants. A golden age has passed for fine dining and unique casual as well. We have been in a decades long battle with chain restaurants, and when we had the chance to bouy ourselves up with PPP loans, we see that the already cash rich corporate restaurants have sopped up a lot of that money too... It's a landscape I no longer recognize.
From the beginning (almost) I have thought the government should provide funding for restaurants and perhaps some stores to plan and rebuild some of their space to accommodate more efficient open air dining and curbside. And remove barriers from restaurants being able to get significant changes in place fast. I don't foresee my family going back inside a restaurant this year at least. Would this kind of funding for planning, development and perhaps education for restaurant owners be useful?
Frankly, anything that helps restaurants with clear cut nation wide protocols and funding directly to implementation would be a good start. So far, it's piecemeal state by state and there are too many places where the mandates are unclear or unenforced. Most restaurants are hurting, with cash flow being cut by the seating limitations. So any safety protocols (physical reconstruction of space and seating) have to come out of their pockets which puts them in the red right off. And the most effective method for safety in gathering areas, the modern air filtration and circulation systems, are a fantasy many establishments would never be able to afford.
Thank you for doing the right thing. I can't imagine how hard it must be to have made such deep sacrifices and watch your colleagues in other places carry on as if nothing were happening, and yet others going under as they comply. My husband and I lost some income this past year due to the pandemic, income that should have gone to savings and retirement funding, but not enough to disrupt our cash flow or make us unable to pay our bills and we continue to live comfortably. We feel badly about receiving stimulus checks we don't need, but have decided to put some in our retirement account and use the bulk to purchase gift cards to restaurants we like who have done the right thing in the hopes that they'll still be there when we can safely visit them again.
I gave part of my 1st stimulus check to my granddaughter who was going away to college and couldn’t get a part-time job for six months before that, And after she lost the job she had for a year and a half., to save up money for school. I’ve been distributing my second stimulus check to food pantries all around the area.
Thank you for doing that.
Tax cuts for the wealthy are supposed to "trickle down" to the rest of us and, therefore, require no stipulations or conditions. That is economic nonsense of course, but a lot of people have been convinced of the veracity of such "voodoo economics" by the Republican Party.
"Susan Collins expressed optimism that the two sides could continue to work together."
Yeah well, the rumor is she also expressed "concern." We know how helpful that is. Bah.
I wonder if she furrowed her brow and clutched her pearls.
She was also certain Trump learned his lesson after the first impeachment “trial.”
Sudan Collins has proven herself to be utterly useless. I'd really like to understand why the people of main reelected her.
Susan Collins race was the second most expensive in the country at nearly $30 million but Maine is 42nd in population ranking! If we don't get campaign finance reform soon, elections driven by money will end any idea of a "fair election". Here's her Open Secrets Account. Note who is funding her: https://www.opensecrets.org/members-of-congress/susan-collins/summary?cid=N00000491
Maine. Dang spellchecker
She’s nothing if not a smart politician and she knew with the precision of a surgeon what she needed to do to win enough votes
Like FDR's New Deal, what's urgently need is a massive infusion of federal cash into the economy. Not even $1.9 tril is really enough, but it will help. It must be carefully administered to bring maximum benefits to those truly in need, unlike relief bills directed by the Trumpsky admin.
The intervention of Gov Jim Justice is welcome and hopefully signals a halting return to reality for segments of his Deplorable GOP. Still, I call BS on his faux-folksy gibberish, this from the richest guy in WV worth $2 billion. Pay your fair share, guv!
As for Trumpsky, here's the deal. Lock him up !!!!!!
Republican leaders don't want an impeachment trial because January 6 was an attempted coup, and a trial in the Senate will expose that fact in undeniable clarity.
Ongoing investigations into 1/6 make trump's involvement and intention obvious. He and a widening net of Republicans intended to take down the government. Period. I remain dazed and dumbfounded by this. And I want those who were involve to be in jail. Period. That was an insurrection. Had it been orchestrated by foreigners, we'd be at war. It wasn't. We did it to ourselves and the participants remain just as guilty. Period. Jail.
Agree.
While everyone seems to be concerned about the impending Impeachment trial, little is being said about pursuing criminal charges for sedition against the former President, Giuliani, Trump, Jr. Brooks, and others at the "rally." We know the FBI and Justice Departments are investigating, and these things take time. But, the Attorney General should regularly report the status of the investigations without tainting them.
Thinkong they are ACTIVELY pursuing these, but do not want to tip their hand before have solid cases or are in court.
Criminal charges against all players would be great, and wouldn't require Senate involvement. Regardless of how iron-clad the facts are, I just don't see a Senate conviction in the impeachment trial.
Yep, exactly. This will expose a true conspiracy, and that causes far more problems than it solve. For example, how will you even try to implicate McConnell, who clearly contributed, even if passively? And as you say, Larry, people within the White House were involved, including trump's family members. This will get real ugly. And for that reason we cannot allow Republican to convince everybody that we need to "heal ourselves" when in fact the process is actually a cover-up.
Absolutely yes!
YES!
Don't know how you keep this up but I'm sure glad you do! Thank you Dr Richardson 💜
Trump's program for retaining the presidency for a second term is so incredibly slap-dash, I have a hard time believing what was happening was a coup d'erat, even by the Cline criteria; it reads like a bad reality tv script about a mentally failing King George III. The things bathos, not tragedy. Has a coup ever been accomplished without the approval and agency of the military. I can't bring myself to believe the military would have gotten involved in any way; the military we have is not composed of a tribal faction built by the president to give his family jobs and the chance to dress up in uniforms, shiny boots and play with rifles. Trump's most workable defense for his upcoming impeachment trial might well be that he had gone mad, potty, as in "a few bricks short of a full load." He started talking about being cheated of the presidency during the Mueller investigation, which he characterized as a thinly disguised attempt to bring him down—and when Covid-19 started up, astoundingly enough, that too was an attack on his leadership. He asked his supporters to risk exposure to the virus by coming out to vote in person so he could make a claim that any other form of voting was a conspiracy against him. His pathetic draft dodge for heel spurs was evidence enough that he had no qualms about putting others in harms way as long as he and his kids could find women's cloths to wear into the Titanic's life-boats as the ship went down without the captain. Had the January 6 state elector count been really interrupted or messed with otherwise, the largely ceremonial event would not have been seen as deciding the election; the election was in the box, never mind what was in the pretty boxes of elector counts sitting on Pence's table. Adult congresspersons would have stopped the comedy and refused to play the game. Cruz and Hawley and the other congresspersons who appeared to question the legitimacy of the vote were pretty obviously just grand standing in order to avoid driving Trump into a very bad mood. The rioters, how surreal, appeared to see themselves as being on a movie-set, a costume party, more than anything else concerned about filming on I-phones next weeks episode of An Idiot band invades the Super-Bowl and tosses the game to Brady. As I looked through the Pro-Publica clips of the "insurrectionists" in the Capitol, I started flashing on what seemed to be footage of out-takes left on the cutting room floor of the Jerry Springer Show. Trump's term of office looks like a stretched period of temporary insanity, but I can't wait to watch the Senate trial unfold. Now that is going to be a show, actual art in the best sense..
They erected a gallows, they were minutes away from finding someone to hang. Even if they were all dressed as Mary Poppins and humming the theme song of the Dick Van Dyke show the event seemed very real to me. Evil and malicious intent can be banal, even ridiculous, and yet be quite effective.
Once a crowd forms and someone excites them, the psychology changes and herd instincts take over from individual responsibility and anything can happen without the individuals feeling either responsible or particularly concerned.......until it is all over and justice comes to call.
Crowds can be controlled; many are quite orderly, disciplined, even silent. A mob is a crowd out of control. Mobs display common, even predictable features. They don't think or respond to rational prompts; they just act, and their actions always tend toward the worst behavior. Mobs can only be stopped by using or threatening force against them, or when their energy and focus dissipate. That's what we saw happening in the Capitol on Jan 6. It certainly wasn't due to concerted efforts by law enforcement or the federal government.
The insurrection displayed classic mobbing behavior and will be studied endlessly by scholars. Unlike most crowds or mobs which stubbornly remain largely anonymous and inexplicable, this is the best documented mob in history, making it somewhat easier to explain -- and much easier to prosecute, hopefully to the fullest extent of the law.
Exactly!
Exactly!! There was plenty of death and morbidity and it stopped the work of Congress. I’m of the thought that the insidiousness of it made it even worse. Has anyone heard AOC (who has had her life threatened repeatedly by these monsters) reveal her experience.
Yes. Riveting. She is helping to dispel the idea that we should “just move on” from accountability. ❤️🤍💙
Today AOC recounted the experience in her regular newsletter. Apparently she and my Rep Ayanna Pressley strengthened each others' resolve together during the Capitol siege. They were just moments from some horrible violence.
Just watched that! Terrifying!
Now watch the videos of the mob getting the police out if the way. Watch them breaking down the doors. Watch them rough up a photographer someone decided was 'antifa' before he could convince someone to look at his press pass. That there were buffoons in the crowd "doin' it for the 'Gram" does not discount the ones wearing body armor and carrying a bundle of zip-tie restraints.
My thoughts exactly. The videos are chilling, and certainly put paid to any notion that these were simple folks who gathered happily in anticipation of cheering "their President," at a rally.
I, for one, am not very interested in allowing the King of Q to get off from being the front man for this coup d'etat and leader of seditious acts on grounds of being "potty" in his brain. My memory is that he stated, 1,000 years ago in the 2016 election, if he did not win against Hillary it would be a rigged election. This is merely par for the course in paving the road for an autocratic take over. He may be King of Q, but he is also someone's Puppet with no ideology whatsoever except the gross reflection in his giant, distorted mirror. His puppet master is more calculating in the destruction of America's power via the willingly seditious GOP and the vile corpus of King Q and his dangerous cult.
Just because it's unlikely the military would have gone along doesn't mean it was not a coup attempt by trump. When I read some of HCR's previous posts, the longer NYT and other articles about the preparation for overturning the election results (the plan to fire Rosen, the call to GA SOS Raffensberger, etc), I don't know what else to call it but an attempted coup. It was not slap-dash. Preparation began at least months ago when he began talking about election fraud associated with easier mail-in ballots (to his detriment as it turned out).
Beth, I agree that it was a coup attempt, regardless of the insane thought processes of the Monster, or the ineptness of the insurrectionists. It doesn't have to be successful to be malicious or seditious. It's the intent that counts. He is a deranged criminal, and proved it on many fronts, from election interference to the insurrection. His endless lies and ineptitude were just the prelude to his traitorous "plot."
It was coup. Unfortunately too many journalists and scholarly experts can't or won't recognize and name it accurately. They are prisoners confined in a framework that hampers understanding. "This isn't us" is a variant of American exceptionalism saying it can't happen here. Well, it did, and it might again.
On Jan 7 the Boston Globe had an interview with Clayton Thyne, specialist on coups at U Kentucky. Thyne said that Jan 6 couldn't be a coup because it didn't target the head of government and had no formal military involvement. That definition is completely inadequate to comprehend what happened, including since 2016 when Trumpsky commenced his nearly five-year campaign to undermine election institutions and results. Events since Nov 3 should force a major reassessment among experts along with major changes in governance and law enforcement.
And actually, it did target the head of government, the newly elected, but yet-to-be-inaugurated head of the government, at the behest of the outgoing "head" of government wanting to extend his reign. You're correct that "outgoing" had been campaigning and preparing for five years for just such a scenario. Biden's life was not threatened, but the process to install him was.
Good catch, Nancy. Thyne focused only on the actual incumbent: not a target, not a coup. Bah. I wrote the Globe and challenged him to a debate on his own topic, coups d'etat, but on my turf with English examples he overlooks. No answer from the Globe. Bah again!
Why am I not surprised? You do know that Boston is the center of all civilization. I know, because I grew up there, then MOVED to (gasp) Georgia. Infamy!
That is why the Joint Chiefs’ clear statement, maybe back in August, that they would not intervene in the election, was so important.
Also SOD Mark Esper's statement in June 2020 that George Floyd protests did not need the US military to restore order. The spirit of the Self-Denying Ordinance, heritage of the English Civil War that separates civil and military authority, remains strong.
The former president may not have been in complete control. King George probably wasn't either. Those who seek control for their own ends rather than for the common good may often find it useful to have a buffoonish frontperson.
George 111's son had a great time and this "scot-free",before the Regency leading grift, plots, factions and whatever else trying to usurp power.....thereafter he was actually blamed for everything....not so funny!
Hah. George IV was scot-free until he went to Scotland in 822 and was coaxed, chubby legs and all, into a kilt by ... Sir Walter Scott. Oops!
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b2/George_IV_in_kilt%2C_caricature.jpg
I agree that Trumps attempt to retain power was amateurish and,seemed doomed to failure. But that is the nature or Trump’s typical planning effort. He hasn’t shown the ability to implement logical step-by-step plans that unfold over time, anticipating moves multiple steps ahead. Instead, his standard method has been to create chaos and division and then find an action that will take advantage of the confusion so he gets his way, in this case maintaining power. My best guess is that he hoped to rouse the crowd/mob to march to the capitol and raise enough ruckus to frighten the legislators to do his bidding, or to create a situation so violent that he could declare a state of emergency and martial law, suspend the constitution and put himself in charge. He sees himself as adept at finding a way to benefit from the messes he creates. He began using these techniques early in his presidency. This approach seemed to work for him early on, but became increasingly less effective through his term, and totally failed as his strategy to the pandemic and to his election loss.
Yep, that's definitely an attempted coup.
"It will be wild!" So much for wiggle room, aka deniability...
The last time the "military" was involved in a coup predates the Republic. Called the Newburgh Conspiracy, took place in 1783, in Newburgh, New York. There's a State museum there and worth the visit.
Basically, Officers of the Continental Army were frustrated by Congress hemming and hawing about paying them for their service during the Revolution. The plan was to march on Philadelphia and Congress. They were holding a meeting when Washington walks into the room, takes the podium, pulls out his spectacles. Now these men had never seen Washington, story goes, wearing glasses. As he takes out a cloth to wipe them down, he says, "Excuse me, my eyes have grown dim in the service of my country."
Pretty much took the steam out of the conspiracy, but Washington did let Congress know you can't promise one thing and fail to deliver. It also established the concept of civil control over the military.
I seriously doubt the military would be involved in a coup. Remember each soldier takes an oath to defend the Constitution of the United States of America and not to some political leader.
Larry, you stated: "I seriously doubt the military would be involved in a coup. Remember each soldier takes an oath to defend the Constitution of the United States of America and not to some political leader."
But here's something else which bears remembering, so does each and every member of Congress, both chambers. I've cut and pasted the following from the GPO's information page:
"Legislative Branch: Members of Congress
At the start of each new Congress, in January of every odd-numbered year, the entire House of Representatives and one-third of the Senate takes an oath of office. For Members of the House, the Speaker will direct the Members to rise, and the oath is administered. A Senator-elect takes the oath of office from the presiding officer in an open session of the Senate. The current oath is as follows:
"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter: So help me God."
Currently there are 76 members of the House and 24 in the Senate who are Veterans. This means that 100 members of the current Congress* have taken an oath to defend the Constitution at least twice in their two different roles of service to the United States. How many of those people have rejected their oath(s) by pledging fealty to Trump, supporting his claims of a stolen election despite all evidence to the contrary? How many in Congress* were instrumental in the attack on 6 January? How many of those people are prepared to let Trump and his co conspirators walk, unpunished.
Now, here's another troubling question: How many active military, from the top down, were instrumental in allowing the events of 6 January to take place? How many at the Pentagon? DoD? On the ground?
I do not have the faith that you have that all who have taken the pledge as members of our armed forces and/or as members of Congress* will adhere to that oath.
*Congress-used here to define both the House and the Senate.
Daria, good point. Not all of those who take the oath will adhere to it. But as the FBI and Justice department conduct their investigations, and these people are found out, then we need to prosecute them to the full extent of the law.
Absolutely agree, Larry.
Larry and Daria, Your exchange was edifying as it raised important questions. I would like to know how many in Congress who chose not to impeach Trump also served in the military. We'll have a more complete picture of that after the trial in the Senate. With reference to the oaths of office and oaths to the constitution, do such commitments mean less today? Has individualism and self-interest dimed their power? I think the reasons for Trump's hold on elected Represtatives, (national and state) as well as more than 70 million voters will tell us more about our country and its people. There have been important failures of government, including policies that transferred wealth to a few, systematic racism that has not been substantially reduced and a lack of support for the working class that was left hanging as companies sought workers elsewhere and technology changed the world of work. It is still difficult to go from that (and more) to Donald Trump, a known creep, crook, abuser, liar, racist and phony. What is so appealing about of his wide ranging character defects and mental health issues? Apparently, playing the victim, incessantly repeating the same lies, his bluster, gross attacks on the establishment - women - immigrants - minorities, opponents and other countries did the trick. Our faltering country needs to know the reasons for Trump's appeal as well as working toward a much more equitable union with a functioning government that people can respect.
Fern. Good questions that really need a lot of space and discussion.
This past Sunday, I watched Fareed Zakaria's CNN special on the "polarization" of the country. In my opinion its a bit biased, but many of the facts are pertinent to this discussion. If you can find it, watch it. Where he's biased is that he points to Fox News and Newt Gingrich as the real culprits to the problem. They're factors, maybe strong ones, but the liberals are not without their own "rabble rousers" during this time. Otherwise, its very informative.
Thank you, Larry. We do need a clearer understanding of what is going on in this country, why and what may be done about the negative forces. I often watch Fareed Zakaria's programs and will try to find the 'polarization' special.
Many of those involved in the January 6 coup attempt believed they were defending the Constitution (as they understand it - reminds me of the flag-hugger himself - professing allegiance to something they don't really understand or respect). I do think that T**** intended from the beginning to retain power as long as possible and that a coup has been considered a viable part of the playbook from day one. His requests for massive military parades, his loading of the Justice department and the Pentagon with loyalists, his "joking" about 4, 8, 12, 16, ... more years at rallies, his refusal to allow any information about his talks with Putin, Kim, and other autocrats - all have been indications that he never had any intention of leaving the White House.
Just because he's delusional, mentally unstable, incapable of doing the job for which he was elected is no reason to think that January 6 was not an attempted coup. Plenty of dictators throughout history have not been capable administrators, have been arm-waving narcissistic pathological liars, and yet have ruled for decades. We are fortunate that there were enough leaders in the military who still believed in democracy to have prevented this from being a military-backed coup.
We all should be grateful that the military leaders were more focused on our democracy than most Republican legislators.
I mean no disrespect to you, Larry, but the fact that it hasn't happened here before is not exactly a bolstering argument in favor of January 6 not being a coup attempt. We couldn't imagine 9/11 either.......before 9/11.
Beth, I didn't mean to imply what happened on Jan 6 wasn't a coup attempt. I was only referring to one being led by the military. Would the military be able to lead a coup? Interesting question that was posed by the movie/book Seven Days in May.
We've actually had another "coup attempt" in the 1930s when a group of businessmen approached a retired marine general. They asked him to raise 500,000 men to march on the President. He turned their names over to the Justice Department.
I would wholeheartedly support the idea that this attempt was sedition and those involved, at all levels, should be punished to the full extent of the law.
I remember watching the movie "Seven Days in May" in the base theater at Goodfellow AFB where we were training to spy on Soviet radio comm. I was impressed even in my youth at the openness of the USAF showing that movie on base. (We also has the English language Pravda in our BX)
Got it, thanks for clarifying. I didn't know that about the 1930s, fascinating.
Marine General Smedley D Butler is a neglected hero. Along with his patriotic response to the 1930s coup attempt, Butler repudiated his sterling military service. He stated that he and other soldiers were exploited to support intervention in the Caribbean and Central America, skewing their economies in favor of US corporations.
Cf. also Sinclair Lewis, ""It Can't Happen Here." It is fiction but presents a chilling warning that, indeed, it CAN happen here. It's gotten more attention and readers since 2016.
<> S Butler, War is a Racket
<> J Archer & A Venzon, The Plot to Seize the White House
The oath aside, what are we to make of the ex-military/active military elements in ultra right wing groups?
Just because they served or are serving doesn't mean they don't have their own ideas, fears, etc.
The bigger question is why do people join these extremist groups at all. And which is more dangerous to the country - right wing or leftist ones like Antifa?
I read a recent article this past Sunday, in either the Washington Post or New York Times, that the FBI and Justice Department were being pulled off active investigations against right wing groups like Oath Keepers, etc. to pursue the Antifa claims by Trump and his supporters. So, the professionals in government know where the main threat is but politics, as usual, got in the way.
Antifa poses no serious threat to anything other than a few buildings. It's tiny and barely exists as an organization. Despite its articulate philosophy it has more in common with hippies acting out than any genuine risk to democracy or the rule of law. Nevertheless the Trumpsky admin hyped Antifa as a major threat to the republic. Now the DOJ under Merrick Garland will take serious threats seriously, rather than exploiting them for selfish or traitorous purposes.
"Despite its articulate philosophy"? I'd be very interested in knowing more about this. Perhaps I've been too overwhelmed by the alt-right and their views to have picked up that Antifa has articulated a philosophy other than that expressed in their name - against fascism. I'm assuming there would be an anti-police angle, as the idea that too many cops are fascists is hard to avoid (in my view one or two in a department is way too many). And they would naturally be against the T****ers. Has there been any statement of what they might be for (since what they are against is not hard to infer)?
In all seriousness, if there is a gray-haired granny faction of Antifa that eschews violence, I might be interested in joining since they were able to scare T**** and his ilk. I already have a black hoodie, black trousers, and a backpack.
Definitely worth reading the Cline Center piece cited at the end of today’s Letter. We saw an attempted coup on January 6.
Check out the Coup-o-meter at https://isthisacoup.com/allupdates. The site has been archived as of January 20, 2021 but it provides meter updates beginning on September 24, 2020.
Thanks, Lena! Vivid graphic and a fascinating read.
IsThisACoup needs to incorporate evidence starting in 2016. That' when Trumpsky began plotting to overthrow the US government by discrediting any election results not to his liking.
The military could have easily gone that way. Thank God the joint chiefs of staff did the right thing.
Correct on JCOS, thank you David. But I cannot see a concerted takeover happening that involved a united military. The worst-case scenario would have factions within the military clashing with others, some supporting seditious insurrection, the majority the established order. That's pretty nightmarish in itself, and is the kind of chaotic situation that Trumpsky lives to exploit. Martial law under his regime would have been a mortal threat to American democracy.
You don't need the military if you have judges, and a majority of the national legislature, and pivotal election officials in key states willing to disqualify election results. Thankfully, Trump could not convince enough of these officials to break the law. But if Trump Republicans continue to control that party and continue to dominate state legislatures and continue to win other critical offices, the Next-Trump might. The antidote to authoritarianism is this: Democrats must win elections. Democrats must stay focused, must not become complacent, must continue voter-mobilization efforts, and must fight Republican voter suppression efforts. Stacey Abrams has shown us the way. I agree with Mitch McConnell rarely, but he was right on one count: elections have consequences.
Yes, the Next Trump could be more dangerous still: more plausible, less alienating or polarizing, better manners, certainly smarter, possibly even attractive. Can you say "Nikki Haley," boys and girls?
Antidote: Democracy. The more the merrier.