In the end, does it really matter whether a plan to overthrow an election is peaceful or violent? Why is that relevant if the election is found to be free of any fraud that would have changed the results? Navarro doth protest too much. In my personal and business life, I've encountered fast talkers like him. Typically, they think their r…
In the end, does it really matter whether a plan to overthrow an election is peaceful or violent? Why is that relevant if the election is found to be free of any fraud that would have changed the results? Navarro doth protest too much. In my personal and business life, I've encountered fast talkers like him. Typically, they think their rapid-fire cavalcade of words makes them superior. In fact, it usually means they're trying to obscure the truth.
"... Trump trade advisor Peter Navarro’s claim that he, Trump, and Trump loyalist Steve Bannon had a peaceful plan to overturn the election ..."
Seems to me that he just said the three of them had a plan to overturn the election.
"See, officer, me and the boys were just looking to take a little money from the bank, nice and peaceful, and then that damn-fool security guard came out of nowhere with a gun and, well, it just got out of hand...."
(And has anyone else discovered that we can NOW EDIT OUR POSTS!!!!???) YAY!
Still searching for the three dots. Do you first have to post something in order to get to the three dots? Yes! You do! Post then edit like I am now doing. Lol
Let me add, with each passing day Trump and his enablers communicate one simple thing in their pronouncements and lawsuits: fear. They know they're losing and somehow think they can BS their way out or run out the clock. Or, with Navarro's ramblings legitimize an attempted coup by saying, in essence, no violence was planned and 100 members of Congress were onboard with it. So hunky dory. Nothing to see here.
What about those 100 congress members who support this coup? Name them all and escort them all out of our government offices, pronto. Same thing with any National Guard and military personnel who support the coup. They can be presumed innocent in front of a jury in a court of law, but their stand against our country is so egregious as to encourage, aid and abet the downfall of our democracy, I say, "Out, damn spot [s]!" And take your criminal electoral college, gerrymandering, filibustering, 5th Amendment and criminal pardonings with you on your way out. Leave your perks like healthcare, salaries and all other benefits at door of our Institutions. And no writing books allowed. If so, all the proceeds from writing and interviews about of their criminal behaviors go into our coffers to pay America back from your terrorist/coup actions against our people. This includes Fox entertainers and owners who aided and abetted as well in their brainwashing propaganda and lies.
It is not at all clear to me that Trump is "losing". As pointed out in the Guardian article post above, 77% of Republicans believe that there was serious fraud in 2020 and that Trump won the election.
Republican legislators are taking over the process of overseeing elections to ensure that they seat a set of electors that will vote for Trump independent of the vote count.
All of this is not losing....it is playing to win big time.
Thank goodness it is 3/4 of less than half of the electorate (that identifies as Republican). Which is why they must twist laws and gerrymander and pander to their ugly base. Clearly we need some new legislation to ensure a safe, fair, and free democratic process. Liz Cheney is looking like a hero because she is putting country before party. When this is over her party will be in tatters but her country will be stronger.
That's 3/4 of less than 30% of the voters, or between 18-22% of the voters. At least 10% of any poll group will support anything you care to state: e.g. Campbell's Soup contains human parts, placed there by space aliens. And just to be clear, I completely made up that statement about the soup. But if you put out a poll, you'd get about 10% thumbs-up.
Do they really believe that or are they just saying it hoping that perpetuating the lie will help them continue to win? Remember 77% of Republicans is not a huge number anymore. Many Republicans have left the party after 1/6, many independents who voted Republican don’t support this and republicans are the minority. It might be 20% of voters saying they believe it. And oddly a huge number of people at the Capitol on 1/6 admit they don’t vote. It’s a lot of noise from very few voters.
Your point is right on. A recent poll showed 40% of Republicans don't want Trump to run for re-election. Another poll shows 59% of independents don't want to see Trump on the ballot in 2024. Can anyone imagine that his support will increase, given all the investigations?
It's cold comfort that some Republicans don't want Trump back in office. That 40% is repulsed by the man, but they are fine with the authoritarian policies. Trumpism will outlast Trump, and one way or another the Rs will replace him with a more savvy politician without the ugly mental issues. One who knows how to play to the Republican base but put a friendlier face out to the rest of the country. Think Big Brother from 1984.
Trust me, there are people who are treating Trump as a social experiment and learning a great deal about how far the American political system can be pushed. Expect a smoother Trump in the future, one who can lead the majority of the credulous American electorate down the authoritarian path with a smile on their faces. It may take a decade or two, but these people are playing the long game.
Once the process is underway, it will be very hard to stop. Now is our time, possibly the only time, to put the country back on the path to democracy.
Losing in the sense that serious charges are headed his way. It could be as early as next week in New York. Whether prosecuting him for tax fraud and other crimes will erode his support among Republicans is hard to say. The hardcore cult won't care. But I'm confident that he will be humiliated and end up behind bars.
I coined the phrase when I was umpiring a great deal of high level fastpitch softball. "Oh, look. Bonus softball." My longest was a 17 inning game to decide a state championship between two teams that met in the opening game and had an 11 inning game that was decided by one run. The losing team made it to the championship game, won that game in extra innings (10 innings as I recall) to take the championship to the "if" game, and eventually was called due to darkness and co-champions were declared. Of those two teams, 20+ of those players went on to play major college softball.
Yes. In the 2000 election, Florida was faced with so many deadlines which would not be extended. Of course a tornado would have extended them. A crisis of democracy was less compelling. Then SCOTUS decided that recounting all the votes would be unfair to their boy. Why we have not rubbed Republican noses in all of it amazes me. (Benghazi! went on and on. Her emails!)
The idea that the 100 Trumpist House members could delay the certification past January 6 by some number of hours and overturn the election that way makes me puke. There must be rules, but there is the intent and spirit of the law. I never heard a Republican explain what’s wrong with the principle of one person, one vote, counting all the votes. Other than they might not win.
Unfortunately, 2022 elections are only 11 months away. If they are doing public hearings in late summer (and for what purpose and end?); time's up for trials. We've been more than patient and I'll cite the Mueller report as an example of patience gone askew! We waited and waited and trusted the "system" and nothing happened. And, left unfettered and emboldened we got January 6th!
It is Congress’s job to protect the outcome of a free and fair election - not undermine it. Maybe the law they need to write has to address the lies told on the floors of the House and Senate that day.
Per the DOJ's District of Columbia on-line memo, "Ten Months Since the Jan. 6 Attack on the Capitol", "At least, 265 defendants have been charged with corruptly obstructing, ingervening or obstructing an official proceeding or attemlting to do so,". Garland`s DOJ assigned attorneys have litigated the issue in at least 4 cases so far and have won in each case. Onward.
Wait. Navarro??! “Rapid-fire cavalcade of words”? Have you heard this guy? He speaks in the manner of a mealy-mouthed toady given a script he can’t quite make sound convincing. I wonder who ghost-wrote the damn book.
In the end, does it really matter whether a plan to overthrow an election is peaceful or violent? Why is that relevant if the election is found to be free of any fraud that would have changed the results? Navarro doth protest too much. In my personal and business life, I've encountered fast talkers like him. Typically, they think their rapid-fire cavalcade of words makes them superior. In fact, it usually means they're trying to obscure the truth.
I'm trying to parse that, myself.
"... Trump trade advisor Peter Navarro’s claim that he, Trump, and Trump loyalist Steve Bannon had a peaceful plan to overturn the election ..."
Seems to me that he just said the three of them had a plan to overturn the election.
"See, officer, me and the boys were just looking to take a little money from the bank, nice and peaceful, and then that damn-fool security guard came out of nowhere with a gun and, well, it just got out of hand...."
(And has anyone else discovered that we can NOW EDIT OUR POSTS!!!!???) YAY!
YES YES YES! (I never get it right the first time.)
YAY! To your comment Joseph and to editing ability!!
Yup and yay!
Got it! Thanks! It's very subtle indeed.
You have it absolutely right!
I see three dots to the right of my own post's choice to reply and delete. If I hover over the dots, I get an edit choice.
Yup.
Still searching for the three dots. Do you first have to post something in order to get to the three dots? Yes! You do! Post then edit like I am now doing. Lol
Voila!!!
Yes. It shows up when you yourself have posted.
Let me add, with each passing day Trump and his enablers communicate one simple thing in their pronouncements and lawsuits: fear. They know they're losing and somehow think they can BS their way out or run out the clock. Or, with Navarro's ramblings legitimize an attempted coup by saying, in essence, no violence was planned and 100 members of Congress were onboard with it. So hunky dory. Nothing to see here.
What about those 100 congress members who support this coup? Name them all and escort them all out of our government offices, pronto. Same thing with any National Guard and military personnel who support the coup. They can be presumed innocent in front of a jury in a court of law, but their stand against our country is so egregious as to encourage, aid and abet the downfall of our democracy, I say, "Out, damn spot [s]!" And take your criminal electoral college, gerrymandering, filibustering, 5th Amendment and criminal pardonings with you on your way out. Leave your perks like healthcare, salaries and all other benefits at door of our Institutions. And no writing books allowed. If so, all the proceeds from writing and interviews about of their criminal behaviors go into our coffers to pay America back from your terrorist/coup actions against our people. This includes Fox entertainers and owners who aided and abetted as well in their brainwashing propaganda and lies.
I'd be afraid that they would all become martyrs to the lowest of Drump supporters.
I suspect that will be the outcome in any event.
Penelope...those perks Drives me nuts just thinking that we pay them in perpetuity for defying the will of the people who pay those perks
Michael,
It is not at all clear to me that Trump is "losing". As pointed out in the Guardian article post above, 77% of Republicans believe that there was serious fraud in 2020 and that Trump won the election.
Republican legislators are taking over the process of overseeing elections to ensure that they seat a set of electors that will vote for Trump independent of the vote count.
All of this is not losing....it is playing to win big time.
When one candidate’s party “oversees” an election, it is no longer an election.
Really? Tell that to Brian Kemp.
or Brad Raffensperger in Georgia who stood tall against Trump's bombastic lying and put his entire family at risk doing so.
Two out of how many is hardly cause to celebrate or whitewash the severity this action causes.
Brian kemp who was Secretary of State at the same time he was running for governor while also purging voters.
Thank goodness it is 3/4 of less than half of the electorate (that identifies as Republican). Which is why they must twist laws and gerrymander and pander to their ugly base. Clearly we need some new legislation to ensure a safe, fair, and free democratic process. Liz Cheney is looking like a hero because she is putting country before party. When this is over her party will be in tatters but her country will be stronger.
https://news.gallup.com/poll/15370/party-affiliation.aspx
That's 3/4 of less than 30% of the voters, or between 18-22% of the voters. At least 10% of any poll group will support anything you care to state: e.g. Campbell's Soup contains human parts, placed there by space aliens. And just to be clear, I completely made up that statement about the soup. But if you put out a poll, you'd get about 10% thumbs-up.
It’s no wonder I’ve been avoiding Campbell Soup for the last 30 years or more. There has always been something suspicious about it. 🤨
Frustratingly, the entire Republican party is making these unlawful behaviors the norm because they are allowed to continue and grow.
Do they really believe that or are they just saying it hoping that perpetuating the lie will help them continue to win? Remember 77% of Republicans is not a huge number anymore. Many Republicans have left the party after 1/6, many independents who voted Republican don’t support this and republicans are the minority. It might be 20% of voters saying they believe it. And oddly a huge number of people at the Capitol on 1/6 admit they don’t vote. It’s a lot of noise from very few voters.
Your point is right on. A recent poll showed 40% of Republicans don't want Trump to run for re-election. Another poll shows 59% of independents don't want to see Trump on the ballot in 2024. Can anyone imagine that his support will increase, given all the investigations?
https://www.newsweek.com/more-independent-voters-are-opposed-biden-running-2024-trump-1659653
https://www.marquette.edu/news-center/2021/new-marquette-law-poll-finds-majority-of-republicans-favor-a-trump-run-for-president-in-2024.php
It's cold comfort that some Republicans don't want Trump back in office. That 40% is repulsed by the man, but they are fine with the authoritarian policies. Trumpism will outlast Trump, and one way or another the Rs will replace him with a more savvy politician without the ugly mental issues. One who knows how to play to the Republican base but put a friendlier face out to the rest of the country. Think Big Brother from 1984.
Trust me, there are people who are treating Trump as a social experiment and learning a great deal about how far the American political system can be pushed. Expect a smoother Trump in the future, one who can lead the majority of the credulous American electorate down the authoritarian path with a smile on their faces. It may take a decade or two, but these people are playing the long game.
Once the process is underway, it will be very hard to stop. Now is our time, possibly the only time, to put the country back on the path to democracy.
40%!!!!!!!!! That means 60% DO want him to run We are in twilight zone
Those are certainly some comforting statistics!
Losing in the sense that serious charges are headed his way. It could be as early as next week in New York. Whether prosecuting him for tax fraud and other crimes will erode his support among Republicans is hard to say. The hardcore cult won't care. But I'm confident that he will be humiliated and end up behind bars.
It is frightening for sure.
Running out the clock seems to be the goal. “Americans have no stomach for overtime”. Clock management is crucial to football and basketball
Perhaps that’s why I find baseball so much more satisfying
I always refer to extra innings as "bonus baseball".
I concur. No time clock. Let Baseball take it’s course
My “no stomach for overtime” was pointed at the instant gratification crowd
I coined the phrase when I was umpiring a great deal of high level fastpitch softball. "Oh, look. Bonus softball." My longest was a 17 inning game to decide a state championship between two teams that met in the opening game and had an 11 inning game that was decided by one run. The losing team made it to the championship game, won that game in extra innings (10 innings as I recall) to take the championship to the "if" game, and eventually was called due to darkness and co-champions were declared. Of those two teams, 20+ of those players went on to play major college softball.
Fast pitch softball is underrated. Bet you saw a lot of action.
Yes. In the 2000 election, Florida was faced with so many deadlines which would not be extended. Of course a tornado would have extended them. A crisis of democracy was less compelling. Then SCOTUS decided that recounting all the votes would be unfair to their boy. Why we have not rubbed Republican noses in all of it amazes me. (Benghazi! went on and on. Her emails!)
The idea that the 100 Trumpist House members could delay the certification past January 6 by some number of hours and overturn the election that way makes me puke. There must be rules, but there is the intent and spirit of the law. I never heard a Republican explain what’s wrong with the principle of one person, one vote, counting all the votes. Other than they might not win.
All I can say is they are BS their way out and running down the clock. That is what is so frustrating. Why are they not on trial?!
Patience, Janet. All in good time.
Unfortunately, 2022 elections are only 11 months away. If they are doing public hearings in late summer (and for what purpose and end?); time's up for trials. We've been more than patient and I'll cite the Mueller report as an example of patience gone askew! We waited and waited and trusted the "system" and nothing happened. And, left unfettered and emboldened we got January 6th!
The public hearings will start in January. The report won’t come out until late summer.
It is Congress’s job to protect the outcome of a free and fair election - not undermine it. Maybe the law they need to write has to address the lies told on the floors of the House and Senate that day.
Maybe "the people" can write the proposed new law, rather than corporations for a change. Heather?
Great suggestion...try writing it. Rules are tough to write. Un-intended consequences are very difficult to for see.
Not try, do. Yoda.
Per the DOJ's District of Columbia on-line memo, "Ten Months Since the Jan. 6 Attack on the Capitol", "At least, 265 defendants have been charged with corruptly obstructing, ingervening or obstructing an official proceeding or attemlting to do so,". Garland`s DOJ assigned attorneys have litigated the issue in at least 4 cases so far and have won in each case. Onward.
Yes!
Wait. Navarro??! “Rapid-fire cavalcade of words”? Have you heard this guy? He speaks in the manner of a mealy-mouthed toady given a script he can’t quite make sound convincing. I wonder who ghost-wrote the damn book.
He made himself the imaginary “hero” of his own story. Pathetic.
It's a book not written for the sane of this country. It is to be read to Trumplican supporters.
First question is "How many of them actually take the time to read and Question #2 is "Do they truly understand what they read?"
Such a good point!